Problems With My Ich Medication 1/29/07 Hi there, <Hi> I often use your site to answer any questions I have regarding goldfish care. <Good.>  I find there are lots of Q and A's about treating Ich, but I haven't found any that specifically say how much medicine, how far apart the doses should be and how much and often the water changes should be during the treatment. <Follow the manufacturers instructions.> I have had goldfish get Ich 3 times and every time I followed the instructions I have found on the back of the medicine bottle and/or your site as best as I can and most of the goldfish seem to end up dying as result of the medication. <Some medications are very toxic.>  After a couple days of very labored respiration.  I was hoping you could help me with treating Ich outbreaks with our fancy goldfish in the future if I let you know what I have unsuccessfully done in the past and what I am doing with the current outbreak I am dealing with... <Will try.> We use a medicine called NOX-ICH in which the active ingredients read:  sodium chloride, malachite green - 1%. <Malachite Green is pretty nasty stuff, would not recommend using it or really keeping it in a household with children.  It's just that bad in my opinion.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm >  On the back of the bottle it says to add one drop per gallon for 3 consecutive days.  We removed the filters and medicated as instructed and all my gold fish developed breathing problems and died.   The 2nd time I had a problem I added the 1 drop/gallon, removed the filters, waited 2 days, remedicated again and all the fish developed breathing problems so I did a 50% water change to reduce the amount of medicine but the fish still died. With the current outbreak in our 10 gallon quarantine tank that we have set up for 4 new goldfish we were hoping to add to our 60 gallon tank I removed all but the sponge filter, added the 1 drop per gallon, waited 2 days and did a 50% water change and remedicated.  The visible signs of Ich are gone but of the 4 goldfish in the tank 2 are sluggish still but seem like they will be ok - still eating.  The other 2 goldfish I had  remove to a separate tank with no medicine and a lower water level so they could get to the surface easier to breath since they were having trouble breathing.  After 24 hours in the separate tanks they are not doing any better.  I have seen this behavior enough that I am pretty sure that these 2 fish aren't going to make it.  I would really like to find a way to treat the  Ich in the future with out killing my fish. I would really appreciate a step by step guide to treating my next outbreak should there be one. Can I use this same medicine (NOX-ICH)? <Would probably switch to something else.>  How much and how often with the medication and how much and how often with the water changes?  Should I still feed the fish during treatment? <Sparingly> Should the fish be kept in the dark? <Not necessary.> Thanks so much for your time, Matt <Give this a read, would try salt or copper treatments over what you are currently using.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm > <Chris>

Goldfish Question  1/8/06 Hi, I recently added new fish to my tank and some of the fish I bought and the original ones developed Ick.  I am now treating all the fish with Quick Cure. <I would not use this product here... the formalin is too toxic overall... killing your biological filter. Just use the other component (Malachite Green) which you can buy separately, and possibly salt... this is a much safer cure> My question is one of my red cap Orandas cut his lower lip.  His bottom lip is cut in half and is very red.  I am going to buy MelaFix to cure this is this correct?   <I would not... for reasons gone over and over on WWM. Go there and read re these medications and Goldfish Disease... and soon... before you kill your livestock. Bob Fenner>

Ich... goldfish... blitzkrieg med.s... not studying... I've scrolled through lots of your comments on questions.  You seem to be more knowledgeable than anyone at the fish store here in NYC. <Heeee!> I bought a new 48 gallon tank for two goldfish (one comet, one is a generic -- I don't know what it is called) w/an Eheim canister filter. The store installed it when I was out of town -- big help.  The less strong one (comet) developed Ich, the other one has more or less fought it off.  They first recommended CopperSafe. <Mmm, better to use Malachite Green, rather than copper-based med.s on goldfish>   I followed the directions. They continued to have the spots, but were as active as always.  We left for eleven days and came back to one dying fish and the other lethargic. A person from the store came and 'serviced' the tank and added CopperSafe.  The weaker fish just sprawled out.  I didn't think it would survive the night, but it did.  The store then recommended Rid Ick. <Is copper and Malachite...> I don't like using carcinogenic stuff, but '¦.  I followed their instructions, which were to re-dose every two days (not enough according to the manufacturer). <... should be done daily>   After the first two doses, I stepped this up to every 36 hours, thinking they were too weak to take more.  Somehow or other, these fish are still alive.  Actually, it seems that the medication is the only thing keeping the stronger one down.   The weaker one hasn't eaten in at least a week, probably two, and mostly sits at the bottom listlessly.  The other one occasionally swims around and ate today.  I do not want to use any more Rid Ick.  The store recommended Aquarisol, which I bought. <Another copper salt solution...>   I have set up a QT (old two-gal tank, can't leave these 1 ½ yr olds there long) so that I can remove them and let the tomites in the display tank die.  I haven't yet moved the fish. Frankly, I have no idea what to do, but this is taking a HUGE amount of time. Any thoughts??? <Yes... please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm and the (many) linked FAQs, starting with the ones above... and Goldfish Disease... set upon one plan and adhere to it... I would add salt, one of these Ich medications (if it were me/mine I would use just "Nox-Ich" or another just Malachite Green solution (like Kordon's)... monitor water quality... and the Ich should be gone in a week. Bob Fenner> Thanks. Re: Ich  9/16/05 Thanks for the comments and for the direction to your Ich treatment comments. <Welcome> Sorry to ask for more comment, but I have been getting so much conflicting advice including, just yesterday from the fish store, to slowly cool down the tank. <... no...>   According to your info., that wasn't such a great idea.  My problems with the Rid-Ich+ (or Nox Ich) is that the active ingredients are carcinogenic for me! <Much less so than putting gasoline in a car...> After a week of sticking my hand/arm in the water during water changes, etc., it occurs to me that I am not wild about doing that.  Also, I am not seeing any encouraging response at all from the weaker fish; it remains listless and rocks side-to-side a bit.  And just for good measure, I put in Aquarisol this morning for any lurking tomites.  Clearly, I've been all over the lot. <Yes... randomly, surprised you haven't hit a proverbial light post> My instinct is to try to get the weaker fish moving and eating again, then bomb the Ich.  It may be too late, though.   What would you do at this point? <Read> One other question.  How do you know when they are "cured" (presumably returning to normal swimming around) and how quickly should all of the spots be gone? Thanks again. <Please don't write... read where you've been sent, the linked files beyond. Bob Fenner>

Wholesale dying of Goldfish I am having major ongoing problems with my goldfish. A bit of background: I have a pet store and have a steady turnover of goldfish. Unfortunately far too many are dying. I run nine tanks ranging in size from 70 to 210 litres. Filtration consists of undergravel filters run by powerheads, large airstones and canister filters on some of the tanks. The pH ranges from 7 - 7.5. Zero ammonia and zero nitrite. 40 - 50% water changes every week. Some over stocked, some understocked. We have no room for a quarantine facility. It is illegal to import goldfish into New Zealand so all stock is locally breed and of poor quality. There are only four commercial supplies I know of. They all claim to have disease free fish. Various commercial sensitive treatments are used. Some use copper. They are caught out of massive ponds, treated and sold quickly unless they are fancy or more expensive. None of this helps me. Fish that have been in my tanks for awhile (2 weeks or more) are normally always fine. It's the new arrivals that are the problem. There are no problems until a day or two after arrival. Then the fun begins. Fins drop, white patching in the fins and on the body, lethargy and death. Or alive and swimming one day with no signs of illness and dead the next. We normally treat new arrivals for four days with 0.2% solution of malachite green 1ml per 20 litres and the tanks are salted. As far as I can tell, it's not helping! The odd sick fish notice in time is moved to a small 40 litre hospital tank - treatment is 1 cap furan, 2ml Malachite Green, salt and a 50% water change daily. I do not have these problems with our tropical fish. Goldfish losses can be as high as 40% for new arrivals. Wholesalers give you the usual story of "this doesn't normally happen. This is killing me not to mention the fish! I have read a lot of the articles on your website and just want to make sure I have understood this properly. This is what we did: New fish arrive. Bags opened and floated in tanks for 30 minutes with two water additions. Fish netted from bags into tank. Treatment with 1ml per 20 litres 0.2% malachite green for 4 days (if my staff remember) Twice a day heavy feeding - flake and crumble (I like feeding the fish) We now do this: New fish arrive. Bags floated in tanks unopened for twenty minutes - lights off. Fish netted from bags No food for 24 hours. Treatment with 1ml per 20 litres 0.2% malachite green for 4 days (gave staff a rocket) Once a day light feeding of flake (Seemed to lose more fish than ever but it was a different supplier than usual.) Thinking of: New fish arrive. Bags floated in tanks unopened for twenty minutes - lights off. Fish netted from bags Fish dipped in tank water in trays for 2 minutes. Water treated with formalin and Aqua Plus. Fish placed in tanks No food for 24 hours. Treatment with 1ml per 20 litres 0.2% malachite green for 4 days Possible furan treatment on day 1 as precaution. What can you suggest and what concentrations/dosages would be best? ANY help would be appreciated. If not for me, for all the fish this could save. Regards Michael. XXXX@petplanet.co.nz <Could be pH. Your reading of 7 to 7.5 is OK, but a rather large swing to expose the fish to. Have you checked the pH of the inbound water? The water from a breeding pond could be very different from that of your tanks. pH shock can kill in the time window you mention. Any fish that survive will adapt and be fine as long as the pH remains steady. That seems to match the problems and successes you are having. The skin problems you report are also consistent with pH shock, but not the only possibility. All that being said, I have no experience in the wholesale end of the hobby. I'm going to pass this along to those that do. Don>    <<Don asked me to look over your message as well.... I do concur re the difference in pH from your suppliers ponds... they may well be using different water still for shipping. A very real problem with goldfish handling, shipping is high ammonia linked with elevated pH... I strongly encourage you to artificially depress the system pH to the mid 6 range (with buffering commercial aquarium product) AND the use of an ammonia absorbing compound (like Amquel or StressCoat) AND an application of a teaspoon of uniodized salt per five gallons of system water... maintain this water quality for a good week or two after arrival, and gradually revert to tapwater conditions through water changes after this time. Should you lose a good-sized specimen, do consider a gross examination of the body cavity... there is a seasonal loss of goldfish through fatty degeneration linked with temperature shift (going into and out of cooler/water waters) that is hard to combat... that results in huge losses worldwide in the trade. Bob Fenner>>

Sick Goldfish Hello........ Please can you help me..... I have 2 big Veiltails, Both female. One of them is fine, the other one, 1st, she started to clamp her dorsal fin, and now she hangs to the water's surface. She still eats well. When I feed them, she will swim to the bottom to get the food. I have been doing water changes, and I do use a tap conditioner. What else can I do ?     Thanks very much < The clamped fins could mean a couple of things. Either a protozoa or bacterial infection. I would try some rid-Ich first for treating Protozoans. It takes at least three days to see if it is working. If you don't see any improvement then I would use Furanace to treat the bacterial infection. Follow the directions carefully and watch for ammonia spikes because these medications will affect the bacteria bed.-Chuck.> Rachel.