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Gastromyzon & Whitespot 1/1/13 Ich with shrimp and Kuhli loaches 11/28/12 Hello, <Howsit?> I would really appreciate some advice on how to best go about treating Ich in my 55 gallon freshwater planted tank (parameters being nitrite at 0ppm, nitrate under 20ppm, pH around 7. I got some new fish about a week ago, and they all seemed healthy. Today I noticed that my new Madagascar Rainbowfish, and my old ones (there's 9) have Ich, but it only seems to be affecting them for the time being. I'm worried about one of the Rainbowfish in particular because he has more white specks than the others. More like 10 or 12 whereas the others have more like 4-5. So far I've done a 25-30% water change, and right now I'm trying to figure out the best way to go. I have 5 bamboo shrimp, 5 Kuhli loaches, and 8 Nerite snails that I don't want to lose. I don't want to use anything harsh for medicating if I don't have to, and I was looking into the salt and heat method, but I don't know that the bamboo shrimp would do well with the heat. I am not opposed to taking my plants out if need be, but of course it would be easier if I had some method to use that is safe for snails, shrimp, Kuhlis, and plants. I think the salt would be okay for everybody else, but I'll go ahead and make sure with you guys. My stocking has Otocinclus catfish, a Bristlenose Pleco, Kuhli loaches, neon Rainbowfish, harlequin Rasboras, ghost catfish, a dwarf gourami, gardneri killifish, zebra danios, Madagascar Rainbowfish, and bamboo flower shrimp. Also, one of my ghost catfish kinda has a light gray somewhat cloudy looking upper lip and instead of facing his whiskers forward, they're kind of out and down. I'm not sure what that is, but I hope you can take a guess at it. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Sarah <Mmm, well; the best process would be to remove the fishes to another system and treat there, but if it were me/mine, I might try simply raising the temperature (but not adding salt/s) here. Read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwichremedyyes.htm and the linked files above. All you list should tolerate 86 F., I'd increase aeration if practical. Bob Fenner>
Complications treating ICH in tank with
Hillstream Loach 10/17/11 Helppppp !- 8/20/11 clown loach with white spot like
dandruff 7/29/11 dosing Ich in qt tank 12/5/10 Sick clown loaches 11/13/10 Treating Ick in a Community Tank
3/12/10 My clown loaches still have severe ick! --
09/08/09 Re: Ick 9/11/09 Ich, plants & surviving fish
7/16/09 Guppies, babies, Ich trtmt. 3/2/09 hi i have found ick in my tank on a neon tetra ,i have treated before with ick guard and it worked. I would like to use it again but i have found some baby fish in my tank if i lower the dose will it harm the babies? and will it work? <Ick medication used correctly should do no harm to livebearer fry. Do not reduce the dosage or it won't work! Remember to remove carbon from the filter while treating the fish. Cheers, Neale.> Ich, Meds, & Scaleless-- 1/20/09 Hello WWM, You have been my trusty source for over two years, and I'm ashamed to say I have read your 'related articles' and I'm thoroughly confused about what to do with the unstoppable and dreaded Ich in my 50 g bowfront with 3 African brown knives, 1 black knife, 3 featherfins, 2 pim pictus, Hatchetfish, zebra Danio? They were perfectly fine, weekly water changes, water tests all good - no deaths for 6 months, then I bought my black knife and a pictus - yes, without quarantine because they looked fine. 3 days ago, I did a 70% water change, vacuumed gravel, raised the temp a couple degrees last few days to 83, heading to 86, have used RidIchPlus+ every 12 hours and covered the tank for complete darkness all to no avail. I'm going to add an airstone because of the higher temp. But the problem is, it's worse. The ich is now on the eyes of my African browns, I'm so afraid they aren't going to make it. What else can I do? I saw your remarks about aq. salt 1tbsp/10g and 1/2 strength malachite green -- all this on top of what I'm doing? No article provides a holistic remedy about all the interactions of these different treatments -- at what point am I overdoing it and curing the disease but killing my fish? What more should I be doing or what should I stop at this point? Should I remove all the plastic plants and accessories and wash them in a vinegar solution? I feared this would keep stressing them out....Help! I can't think of anything else but to save my babies... Holistic Answer Seeker <Hello. The "holistic" answer to healthy fish is to optimise water quality and provide a healthy diet. That's it. Nothing else. Usually when people have problems with fish health it's either the water quality is poor or they offer their fish an unhealthy diet, for example one containing feeder fish. I mention these things because a 50 gallon tank is way too small for the fish you have, a single Notopterus notopterus (Featherfin Knifefish) will easily overwhelm that tank once it reaches its adult size of around 60 cm (about 24 inches). Obviously the Danio and Hatchetfish will end up as food, and while these Knifefish are predators in the wild, allowing predatory fish to consume live fish in captivity is one of the best ways to make them sick. (Both Danios and Hatchets should be in schools, preferably in separate tanks, since Danios tend to bully/kill Hatchetfish.) In any case, let's review the Ick problem. The combination of salt and heat should kill the free-living parasites once the cysts burst open. Do bear in mind that an open cyst is a pathway for secondary infections, and one of the major problems with severe Ick outbreaks is that things like Finrot can soon follow on. Because Knifefish are more tolerant of salt than copper/formalin, I'd definitely be using the salt and heat method to treat them. Indeed, some Knifefish inhabit brackish water, and the Asian species especially are pretty adaptable. Do not add any other medications to the water during this phase. Very few medications interact well. Do a couple of big (50% plus) water changes between the end of using one treatment and the beginning of another, so that you can flush out any residual medication. You can also filter with fresh carbon for the same effect, but frankly water changes are good so why not do them anyway? All else being equal, I'd expect otherwise healthy Knifefish to recover from Ick without too much fuss. But this is contingent on ammonia and nitrite being zero and the pH staying stable, in other words, conditions in the tank being good. In the meantime, start saving up for that 200 gallon tank: you're going to need it! Cheers, Neale.> Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless-- 1/20/09 Thanks Neale for your response, because I may have a cough, but if I take all 40 cough meds available to me I may cure the problem but harm myself in the process. <Hi Michelle, your analogy is a good one. All medications are poisons: it's a question of dose.> That's where I'm at with all the articles on here - you all endorse Aquarisol, RidIch+ and some other meds at half strength with scaleless and some other remedies here and there, but as for the whole package approach at one time you say just stick to heat, salt, good food and 50% water changes <We each have different experiences, but broadly speaking you'll find agreement on the basics; tea-tree oil doesn't work, salt is useful for specific problems, not everything; and copper-based medications are toxic to different fish at varying levels.> I'm confused by some points in your response. 1.You say I have a Featherfin Knifefish that can reach 2 feet, I don't - I have Featherfin catfish which reach 10 in max., aka Synodontis Eupterus. <Ah, that wasn't clear from your list. It seemed to be a list of Knifefish. As you say, S. eupterus isn't so big. A nice fish, by the way.> And I have the one inch zebra Danio, not the giant ones so they have never bothered the Hatchetfish. <The Zebras can be bullies! Not every time, and not in every tank. As you can understand, I have to try and offer advice that works in the most possible situations.> Brown and Black knives usually leave all alone if they are fed twice a day as I've experienced and Bob Fenner mentions in his articles. <Does vary on the tank and the tankmates. If yours are happy, that's great. But ordinarily, I wouldn't recommend people mix them, and certainly not in relatively modest aquaria.> 2. So the complete approach is Heat, salt and water changes are the answer? The heat is 85 and quite a challenge to maintain with 50% water changes and isn't there a risk of gas bubble disease or water hardness issues from the tap? <Salt/heat should work fine. As for the water changes, provided you dechlorinate the water, I can't see any problems with gas or hardness, assuming the water isn't a problem for the fish ordinarily. You don't have to keep the water at 30 C (85 F) by the way. All heat does is speed up the life cycle, so instead of it taking a week for the cysts to burst, it only takes a couple of days. So if you're more comfortable keeping the fish at, say, 28 C (82 F) then by all means do so, or even cooler if you prefer. It's the SALT not the HEAT that kills the parasite.> How often should I be doing the water changes - from the bottom or top? <Your normal water change cycle would be fine, say, 25% per week.> After each one should I be replenishing with aquarium salt at the rate of 1 Tablespoon per 10 gallons removed? <Yes: any water removed should be replaced with salted water. Evaporated water should be replaced with UNSALTED water, since evaporation doesn't carry away the salt. Please do weigh out your tablespoons, at least once, to check you're adding the right amount of salt. A tablespoon should be three teaspoons, or about 3 x 6 = 18 grammes. That's about 0.65 ounces.> It falls to the bottom and remains solid so does that run the risk of having too much in the aquarium if I didn't vacuum it all? <Are we talking about salt here? DO NOT add salt to the aquarium! Dissolve the salt in the bucket of water first. While the danger of grains of salt sitting in the tank isn't in itself a huge risk, if a fish is stupid enough to eat a lump of salt, that would be fatal.> As for food I feed them Hikari bloodworms in AM, and then pinch of flake food and 2 algae chips in evening. <Sounds good.> And finally, I really should stop the RidIch+? <Yes; salt/heat OR Ick medication. No need for both.> By the way, Day 5, nothing is better; the ich is on their eyes. I'm doing a 50% water change - I've been doing it every other day. Day 1 was 70%, then Day 3 was 30%, now I'll do a 50%. <Let me clarify. How long have you been treating with salt/heat? The salt won't work until the cysts burst. I'm also curious about whether this really is Ick. There are some other things that can look similar. Any chance of a photo? Other things might be Velvet or physical trauma.> Thanks, M <Cheers, Neale.> Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless-- 1/20/09 Neale, <Hello,> I just took out all the plastic plants thinking that maybe they have to be rinsed well of the food particles and what not that accumulates over time. I carefully inspected them all - 1/2 don't seem infected. <We're talking about the plastic plants? These won't be "infected" with anything, though any wet object can carry Ick parasites from one tank to another (why retailers sterilise their nets in between catching fish for customers). By all means clean plastic plants, I'd recommend every month or so, or whenever they look dirty. But in and of themselves, they should really cause problems.> The two worst are the pictus catfish - in fact, one has blood red spots on the tips of several fins. <Now this sounds like Finrot.> They are both entirely covered with salt-size-dots that I assume to be Ich (i.e. Just as if you salted a fish for dinner.) <"Salt grains" accurately describes Ick, I'll admit that. But because Ick (brought in with the new fish) breaks the skin/mucous layer on a fish, it makes them vulnerable to Finrot and Fungus, so you may have multiple issues to deal with. On the plus side, there is no reason not to use a reputable Finrot medication (e.g., Maracyn) alongside salt/heat treatment. Maracyn obviously works in brackish and marine fish tanks, so a tiny bit of salt isn't going to cause any problems.> Then my brown knives are coated in the same tiny white dots and several eyes are going cloudy now too. So it looks like it's bacterial as well? <I think we're dealing with two issues at once.> I just scrubbed and rinsed my Whisper filter. I put the two carbon filters back in. <Do please remember: Carbon removes medications (other than salt) from the water. You cannot treat fish while leaving carbon in the filter. Even I've made this mistake, and wondered why my fish didn't heal. The reality is that carbon is more trouble (and expense) than it's worth in most freshwater tanks.> Every time I add water I try to make it the same temperature, add a tiny drop of water conditioner to take out metals. <Not sure what you mean by a "tiny" drop, but the dose on the package per gallon, yes.> I added the dissolved salt water - API aquarium salt, right? <This is fine. You don't want marine salt mix because that would alter the pH and hardness. Tonic or aquarium salt, such as that from API, should be fine.> I don't know what else to do. Should I pull out the pictus, set up a hospital tank for them separately because one of them was the one who started all this? <No. I'd treat everyone together.> But I still have to treat my main tank? My poor baby brown knife is hovering vertical in the corner in distress that I safely had for years; I don't think she has much longer. <Do please review the environment, just in case. It's easy to assume water quality and pH are good because they always have been, and in fact they're not any more. But assuming they're good, I think the problem here is that we've got Ick that prompted a Finrot outbreak, and because you've used carbon, the Ick medication didn't work, so things kept getting worse. The real damage Ick does is to the gills, making fish increasingly "out of breath" and that's why they look so unhappy. The good news is that they should recover, even from fairly bad cases, given the right treatment.> Losing it, M <Good luck, Neale.> Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless-- 1/20/09 Neale, re fin rot I have been reading about this bacteria and I am separating them, but have I been making them sicker by adding salt? <The salt dose I recommend is very low, and won't stress your fish unduly. Even salinities as high as around 6 g/l (SG 1.003, about 0.8 oz per gallon) aren't going to harm freshwater fish in the short term. Indeed, elevated salinities may have some therapeutic value under some situations.> See: http://www.aquariumlife.net/articles/fish-diseases/22.asp <That's a good article, but the comment on salt is a bit misguided. Salt has little/no impact on Finrot directly, though fish that prefer saline conditions (for example Mollies) are more prone to Finrot when salt isn't added to the water. The bacteria that cause Finrot live in fresh, brackish and saltwater conditions, so obviously salt itself isn't toxic to them. Now, while adding salt in the long term (i.e., every week) isn't a good idea with freshwater fish, in the short term (a few weeks of treatment) there is little evidence it harms them, and by contrast much more evidence that the alternatives (such as copper) are more immediately toxic. This is why "delicate" fish such as Stingrays, Mormyrids, Knifefish and Loaches are treated with the salt/heat method, not copper-based standard issue Ick medications. Is salt poisonous to catfish? No more so than to any other freshwater fish, and there are in fact MANY catfish that live in brackish water habitats, and a surprising number that live in the sea. It comes as a surprise to many people who repeat this "salt is dangerous to catfish" idea that there are in fact catfish that live on coral reefs!> "The use of aquarium salt will benefit livebearing fish, but should be avoided in fish, such as scaleless catfish, that are sensitive to salt" <Scales are neither here nor there. Moray eels don't have scales, but they live in the sea. Goldfish have scales, but live in freshwater. It's all to do with how a fish is adapted to its environment, and nothing at all to do with its skin! Cheers, Neale.> Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless-- 1/20/09 Neale, To answer your questions - I removed the carbon 5 days ago when I began treating this - I know it removes medicines. <Cool.> I never put it back in there until today when I removed all the plastic plants because it stirred up so much debris that I needed to cycle it out to clean the water along with my 50% water change. 1/2 my fish, not plastic plants, look sick, the other half fine - that's why I thought it a good idea to isolate the pictus in a hospital tank - so now that we know we have comorbidity (multiple things going on here) should I begin with the Maracyn? <I would.> m <Cheers, Neale.> Re: Ich, Meds, & Scaleless Neale, They are dying now by the minute. The ich seems to have receded except with the African brown knives. Bala showed no signs, even with the Ich, except today a bloody top fin where it connects to him. My small African brown knife died and internally at the tail and mouth it was blood colored. My medium African brown knife is upside down. What's the most awful new symptom is giant pieces of skin of the Featherfin catfish and brown knives were just falling off in large grey pieces like something out of a horror movie. I did the Day 2 dosage of Maracyn and Day 1 dosage for Maracyn-Two. How did this happen? All from a sick pictus? I just don't understand how my whole tank is dying and not responding to anything - I change the water every 48 hours. The temp stays at 84. What is going on that it only gets worse? Is it possible they have true fungi and body fungi and internal and external body infections all at the same time? My water is so clean, I put in an extra bubble wand, removed the decor...I'm just so lost and tired of crying with each death. It just feels so hopeless. M <Michelle, if the fish are becoming bloody on the body and not just the fins, that tends to imply a systemic bacterial infection, something akin to septicaemia. That is very difficult to cure, which is why the accent when dealing with bacterial infections is to recognise them early on (the Finrot stage) or better yet, prevent them altogether. So in all honesty, I cannot offer much hope with regard to the fish already at that point. Ick doesn't so much "recede" as move from the whitespot cyst phase to the free-living stage in the water. The fish that have lost their cysts haven't been cured: it is essential to understand this. The cysts have burst, and the parasites are now in the water. The salt should kill those parasites, so your fish will not be re-infected, and that's how the Ick cycle gets broken. Now, the burst cysts are sites for secondary infections, so it is critical to keep an eye on them for any signs of Finrot or Fungus. I am concerned that things have spiraled out of control incredibly quickly here, which is why I don't think Ick by itself is the issue. I can't stress this point strongly enough: you must check the water quality and water chemistry to see if there's anything else that might be causing problems. If this was me, and I was losing a bunch of fish rapidly, I'd be super-critical of aquarium conditions. I'd take the fish out and put them in a bucket. I'd remove the filter, rinse the media, and keep it running, connected to the bucket with the fish (easy to do with canister filters just by moving the inlet and outlet hoses to the bucket). I'd then strip down the aquarium, give everything a good clean, especially the gravel, and re-fill will fresh, dechlorinated water (with salt added in this case). Once that was done, I'd acclimate the fish to the new aquarium water just as if you'd bought them new. In other words, I'd remove some (10-15%) water from the bucket, replace with water from the aquarium, and repeat this 5 or 6 times over the next couple of hours. Then the fish would be lifted out and put into the tank. The idea is to minimise contamination of the new aquarium water with water from the bucket. Anyway, yes, this is fairly extreme, but at least this way I'd be assured the fish had optimal water quality without being exposed to rapid changes in pH, hardness or temperature. Since the Ick life cycle has broken, you can lower the water temperature to the normal 25 C/77 F. To answer your question, can all this be caused by one new fish, the answer is quite clearly "yes". The bigger question though is did the catfish bring in a disease that caused this problem, or did the catfish merely destabilise what was already a flawed aquarium. I mention that because in my experience aquaria have a "carrying capacity", and one fish can throw the whole thing off balance, until the livestock "die back" to a stable level. It isn't easy to predict this level, and "inch per gallon" rules are seriously misleading. So as I say, be critical about how heavily stocked your tank is, and think about whether filtration is adequate and if the available carbonate hardness is adequate to maintain a stable pH. Sorry I can't offer any easy fixes. Good luck, Neale.> Ick/Whitespot 7/22/08 Hi Guys, I added five new baby neon tetra's to my tank recently - it seems the neon's have all developed Ick/Whitespot. I already had 6 Neon's 2 guppies and a Sailfin Molly - these all appear to be fine. <So far at least... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm Do review the needs of Mollies, and also be warned Neons may nip the fins of fancy male Guppies.> I have read your articles regarding ICK and just wanted to confirm your recommendation for best way to treat. <Promptly!> I was just going to buy meds and treat the tank with meds and regular water changes. However from reading through your site would you recommend increasing temperature and treating with Salt instead? <Makes no odds either way. I tend to use commercial medications such as eSHa EXIT (a brand I find works well even with sensitive species like puffers) because it's easier. But if you want to use salt/temperature, go ahead.> I have added salt before but never with the neon's only with mollies/guppies can my neon's tolerate salt? also my temp is at 80f already is it safe to increase the temp further? <Neons should tolerate the very low salt concentration required, particularly if you build up the salinity across a few days. As for raising the temperature, I wouldn't. Temperature is about speeding up the life cycle of the parasite; in itself it isn't a "treatment" as such. The idea is that the salt only kills the free living parasite, so the sooner that phase begins, the better.> Thanks in advance Scott <Cheers, Neale.> Catfish ich 4/8/07 Hello! <<Hi, Victor. Tom here.>> I have a somewhat urgent question, since I just added fish to a tank that already had a Pleco in it, but one of them had ich. <<Oops'¦>> Unfortunately one of the additions is an angel catfish (Synodontis angelicus) and I'm not sure what treatment to use so I do not harm him. Thank you for your time and best regards. <<Look into Kordon's Pond Rid-Ich+, Victor. It's a re-formulation of the original (excellent) product and can be both safe and effective when used to treat scaleless fish like your Synodontis. Obviously, you'll want to pay special note to any/all precautions and/or recommendations that the manufacturer makes in regard to treatment. As an aside, unless your tank is already heavily aerated, I would also look into providing for this in conjunction with the treatment. Best of luck.>> Victor Teran <<Tom>> Ick treatment & a Baby Whale 6/23/07 Hello, Thank you kindly for your prognosis on the Dwarf Gourami. I'll keep them isolated and cross my fingers.... and not re-stock with Dwarf Gouramis. Another question: Today I noticed that one of the rainbow fish (Red Rainbow female) has 2 tiny white spots... sweet mother of science, I fear ick. She's a relatively new introduction to the tank (4 days) but was quarantined for 8 days prior to being introduced. If ick, I've previously had success with Mardel's Maracide Concentrate... but what about the Baby Whale who lives in the tank (I've had him for about 8 months now... a healthy happy 4 inch Mormyridae) can he withstand an ick treatment like Maracide. Many thanks, Michelle <Happy to help. It's a shame that Dwarf Gourami Disease is so common. Anyway, as for the Ick in your aquarium, be extremely careful when treating the tank. I am not personally familiar with this medication, but I'm a bit concerned that its web page says it "may be harmful to amphibians and some snails". Anyway, before using it, check that the carton said it was safe with invertebrates and stingrays. Anything safe with those should be safe with Mormyrids; if it doesn't say it is safe for those, then assume it is not. If your retailer doesn't know, then checking the web site (or telephoning) the manufacturer can help. The safest thing is move the Mormyrid to a quarantine tank, treat the main tank, use carbon and water changes to remove leftover medication, and then return the Mormyrid. With luck, your Mormyrid will not be infected. Since you've had the baby whale 8 months, he's obviously settled in and feeding -- so I wouldn't take any chances risking such a lovely animal. Cheers, Neale> Plecos, hold the salt please -- 5/30/07 Hello, <<Hello, Julie. Tom with you.>> I have a question about adding salt to my freshwater tank. I have a 55 gallon tank. Currently, it contains black mollies, gold balloon belly mollies, zebra Danios and one 12 inch Pleco. <<Hmmm'¦okay. Mollies are typically categorized as 'brackish' water fish, Julie. Your Pleco has little, if any, tolerance for salt. Not ideal but let's see what we can do.>> My problem - the black mollies have ich and I am having trouble getting rid of it. I read that my tank needs salt and this will aid in getting rid of and keeping the ich out of my tank. <<Salt is one of the 'safest' ways to go, Julie, but not the only one. In this case, a 'treatment' level of salt for Ick will do your Pleco no good whatsoever. We need to look for an alternate course of action.>> I also read that my Pleco will not do well with too much salt in the water. <<True.>> Is there a certain amount of salt that I could add to my tank that might help my mollies but not hurt my Pleco? <<In this case, Julie, there isn't. Plecos can 'tolerate' no more than a dosage of one tablespoon of salt per five gallons of water and even that is 'iffy'. You'd likely need to up this to around two-three tablespoons per five gallons to effectively do battle with this parasite. Not an option, I'm afraid. You should consider Maracide here. Not quite as effective as other forms of treatment but 'scaleless' fish seem to do quite well with this treatment. 'Quick Cure' is a formulation of formalin and malachite green which is very effective, particularly when combined like this but, it does have 'safety' drawbacks as it's toxic to fish and plants if dosing isn't done properly or, if treated for a prolonged period. Treatments with this product can be very successful when half-dosed in 12-hour intervals, however. I'd go with the Maracide here, though. If this were a more serious outbreak, I'd direct you to go with the Quick Cure but I'd rather that you feel comfortable with this rather than put you on the spot. Also, remember to increase the temperature of the tank to 82-86 degrees F. over a period of several hours to speed up the life cycle of the Ick.>> Thanks, Julie <<You're welcome, Julie. Best of luck. Tom>> Ich, frogs, snails and shrimp question - 7/23/07 Hello! I have searched all over for an answer to this question and I can't find one. So, I'm going to email this and hope someone answers it! We have one goldfish, one platy, one ghost shrimp, one snail and one (tiny) African Dwarf frog. The gold fish looks like it has a case of Ich... small white dots/bumps on it's fin. We took him out of the aquarium, and I want to treat it, however, I'm not sure if we should treat the tank with the frog, snail and shrimp in it? Should we take them out? Do they need to be treated? Help! Please? Thank you! Deanna <Hello Deanna. Snails are usually resistant to medications, but shrimps are not, and often frogs aren't either, so good save there. You will need to treat the whole aquarium for whitespot rather than just one fish. Actually, to be precise, the anti-Ick medications cannot kill the parasites on the fish which is why removing them to a quarantine tank is pointless. All they kill are the free-swimming parasites before they attack the fish, and even if you cure the fish in the quarantine tank, the next generation of parasites will still be in the aquarium waiting to re-infect your fish! That's why you need to treat the tank, not the fish, so you can break the life cycle of the Ick parasites. Every few days they flip from being on the fish to being free swimming as one generation dies and another is born. Or something like that, anyway! So, remove the shrimp and perhaps the frog too. Treat the tank. After a week, change 50% of the water, and install carbon in the filter. (I assume you know you MUST always remove carbon before treating an aquarium, because carbon removes medication just as it removes any other organic material.) After 24 hours do another 50% water change, and then return the shrimp and frog. The levels of copper, formalin, or whatever else are in the medication will now be too low to harm the shrimp or frog. Hope this helps, Neale> Ich and the scaleless barb 8/14/07 Dear WWM Crew, <<Dear Claire. Tom here this afternoon.>> Congratulations on your fantastic and informative site - it has been an invaluable resource as I set up my first tropical tank. <<Very glad to hear it, Claire.>> Unfortunately that tank has now come down with ich (due to an unquarantined new arrival - long story, and I've learned my lesson...) - I saw one or two spots on fins this evening. <<An Ich infestation is a pain in the backside to have to deal with but it's a far cry from other problems that might have occurred. Sorry you learned the hard way but all of us have learned something in this hobby the hard way so welcome to our club.>> I have Nox-ich to treat it with but would like some advice on dosage, due to the presence of a 'mutant' fish. The tank contains 6 female rosy barbs (rescued feeder fish), five tetras and a Bristlenose catfish (gradual stocking still in progress). One of the rosy barbs has no scales. <<Hello? Haven't heard of that one, Claire. Interesting'¦>> She is in all other respects a perfectly healthy (before the ich) and active fish. I assume the lack of scales means that I should treat the tank at a lower dosage level, but would like your input before I do. <<Not to send you back to the LFS unnecessarily, Claire, but neither your Tetras nor your Bristlenose Pleco are going to appreciate the Nox-Ich formula which contains sodium chloride (salt) and malachite green as its active ingredients. Even at half-dosages you'd really be putting yourself on 'aquarium watch' for signs of stress with your pets. Additionally, as I see below, you have a planted tank. Plants don't much care for salt, either. I don't want you wasting time here -- nor your money -- but Kordon's Rid-Ich may be the better choice of medications given the circumstances. It's a combination of malachite green and formalin but, in combination, at lesser concentrations than would be found with other medications using one, or the other, exclusively or nearly so. In combination with each other, these are very effective even when 'dosing down' (one-half the prescribed) because of scaleless fish.>> Tank stats: 150 litres, live plants pH 7.4 ammonia and nitrites nil nitrates 5 Thanks! Claire. <<Tank stats look quite good, Claire. Be sure to read the directions of any medication carefully and followed them to the letter. Best of luck. Tom>> Black Ghost Knifefish and Ich 10/24/07 <Hi Jillian, Pufferpunk here> I am at a loss as to how to treat my two BGK fish. They live together in a large tank along with two Raphael catfish and an Oto whom they surprisingly do not bother. Recently I noticed a few small white spot (suspecting ich) on one of the BGK, and am wondering what is the best course of action for treatment. Firstly, should I isolate the infected fish or treat the tank as a whole since all fish have now been exposed? <I would treat the whole tank with heat & salt.> Secondly, what it the highest temperature that BKNs will tolerate, as my usual treatment for ich is to up the temperature to 82-84 F and add 2Tbs of salt per 10g of aquarium water? <MT BGK lives in a discus tank with a normal temperature of 86. Since these are soft water fish, I'd start with 1 tbsp salt/10g.> This leads me to my third question, is it better to treat the BGK with this salt treatment or to use a product like RidIch at 1/2 strength? <I wouldn't use meds on scaleless fish. Before starting treatment you should do at least a 50% water change and vacuuming of your tank. I also suggest doing 50% water changes every other day of treatment, (again vacuuming the substrate) to reduce the number of parasites in the water. I do not like to use medication with scaleless fish, except in cases of heavy infestation. Melafix is helpful to treat any damage done to the puffer's skin from the parasite. If you run into any secondary bacterial problems, Pimafix may also be used. By the 2nd day of treatment, you can raise the salt to1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of aquarium water (remember you already have 1 tbsp/10g in there, so adjust for that), while gradually raising the temperature to 86 degrees F. Continue with this for a period of one month, adding back 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons of aquarium water that you remove during water changes. One thing to remember with high temperatures is that there is less dissolved oxygen available in warm water than there is in water at cooler temperatures, therefore it is recommended to run an additional airstone to oxygenate the water.> I am a little attached to these fish and would like to see them make it through this. Thank you in advance for the advise. <It sounds like you have caught the disease early & your fish should be fine. ~PP> -Jillian Scharfstein Ich elephant nose 10/23/07 I have had my elephant nose Approximately 8 months. He has been happy and healthy. He has developed tiny white spots on his pectoral fins and anal fin that look like ich. Is there any medicine I can treat him with that won't kill him? Thank You Karen <Hello Karen. With Mormyridae, the things to avoid specifically are Formalin and Copper, both of which are widely used in anti-Ick medications. So you need to treat Mormyridae in the same basic way as, say, Clown Loaches (see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchdis.htm ). Anyway, the basic trick is this: raise the temperature to 30 degrees C (around 86 F). Oxygen level goes down as temperature goes up, so you need to compensate for that. Add additional aeration if you can, but failing that, adjust the water level and/or filter so there is lots of splashing and circulation. Now make up a brine solution in a jug, with about 2-3 grammes of aquarium salt (not marine salt) per litre of water in the aquarium (in other words, a salinity of 2-3 PPT). There's almost exactly 6 grammes of salt per teaspoon, so estimating how much you need should not be too difficult. Stir the salt into the water thoroughly until dissolved, and then slowly add the brine a little at a time into the outflow of the filter so that it quickly disperses around the tank. After a few days the parasites on your fish will mature and die, but the mobile parasite larvae will not be able to re-infect your fish, and the disease will go away. This takes quite a few days, but it does work. Increasing the salt concentration to as much as 6 grammes per litre of water can be used to deal with stubborn infections, but the higher the salinity, the more gently you need to adjust your fish to it, and the higher the degree of osmotic stress placed on the fish. Conversely, once you're done treating the fish, do a series of relatively small water changes over the next few days to gradually bring the salinity down to zero. As ever, do establish why the Ick became a problem. It doesn't come from nowhere, and is either brought in by unquarantined fish or else provoked into action by stress or lapses in water quality. With Mormyridae, prevention is FAR better than cure. Good luck, Neale.>
Black ghost problem... poisoning with Malachite 4/28/06 Hi <Hello> I really hope you can help me. About 2 weeks ago my Clown loaches and blue rams started to show signs of Ich. <No fun> After being given advise by my local fish store, I purchased WS3 medication to cure it. <... malachite green, Acriflavine and quinine sulphate (WS3®, King British)> Only after reading your site have I found out that Black Ghost Knife Fish are sensitive to medications <And the Clown Loaches...> and I have started to notice that my BGK is swimming lazy, has greyish white patches down the side of him and his fins have become torn and have red patches. I don't know if this is Ich, Slime disease or a fungus growth with fin rot. Please could you help me.. Many thanks. Steve. <... with what? Malachite Green should be dosed at most at half concentration with the loaches, Knifefish... This, along with temperature increase should effect a cure for ich. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm and the linked files at top and on WWM re these fishes "Health FAQs". Bob Fenner>
Ich (y) tank and tankmates? 9/19/06 Dear WWM Crew, <Amanda> I have several questions that I have Googled, but don't seem to find the answers that I seek. (I am an amateur 10-gallon tank owner.) I have a planted tank with : 2 Sunburst platys 2 female betas 4 neon tetra 1 yellow 'mystery snail' ...and a snail problem. My first question is this : how can I rid my tank of all the little brown snails that keep popping up out of (seemingly) nowhere? <Mmm, posted: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsnailcompfaqs.htm> My second question has a bit of background to it. My 2 lovely lady Bettas were purchased from a major pet retail store, and were immersed in blue medicated water. I believe I introduced 'ick' into my tank when introducing these fish. What are some 'Betta-safe' measures that I can take to rid my tank of these parasites? <Mmm... Copper and Malachite Green containing remedies (almost all the effective chemical treatments contain one or both) are toxic to your plants and snail... I would try elevated temperature alone... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm and the linked files above...> My third (and final) question also deals with 'ick'. Are snails susceptible/possible carriers of this protozoan parasite? Thank you very much, Amanda <Ah, no. Bob Fenner> Crayfish Safe Ich Medication Hello crew (probably Sabrina), <Sorry, Ya got Don tonight. Sabrina's birthday today. Hope she has a happy one> I apologize for resorting to e-mailing you, but I've searched quite a bit and I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Neptune, my electric blue crayfish (Procambarus alleni), lives in a 55 gallon tank with a small selection of plants, 2 gold Gouramis, 2 blue Gouramis, a large Plecostomus (Jacques), a dinosaur eel (Scuttlebutt), a baby whale fish, and a temporarily small Arowana. I made the hasty mistake of dumping in some small feeder guppies for the Arowana without quarantining them. Now I have a fun little (deserved) ich outbreak. I've slowly elevated the temperature to the mid-80's (Fahrenheit) and added some salt. The ich doesn't seem to be giving in that easily though, so I am going to medicate my tank. I currently have Quick cure. I understand that copper is quite unhealthy for my crayfish. The Quick cure label only lists the active ingredients (formalin and malachite green). Is Quick cure safe to use with my crayfish? If not, is there another effective medication that is crayfish-safe? Would it be best to just remove my crayfish into my empty QT and medicate the main tank? If it is, I read that the too-small-to-see ich cysts can stick to a crayfish, so would my tank be re-infested when I moved the crayfish back? Again, I apologize for bothering you, but at least now anyone else with these questions will be able to find them! Thanks in advance for your help (again). -AJ in Florida <Don't use the copper in any tank where you may someday keep inverts. Months, and dozens of water changes, later it can still kill. If your QT is large enough to house all your fish for four to six weeks, move all the fish (but not the crayfish) and treat them in QT. Leaving the 55 fishless while treating in QT will starve out the parasites. If not then you will have to move the crayfish into the QT and treat the main. Treating in the main is a last resort as the meds will nuke your bio filtration resulting in ammonia spikes. This will require that you do many large water changes to keep your fish alive, replacing the med with each. Much easier (and cheaper) in a small QT. I would use heat and salt only, no matter where you treat. Your eel and Plec will be badly stressed by copper. Possibly to the point of killing them. Salt is much easier on the fish and 100% effective if used at the proper dosage, 76 grams per 10 gallons. For a 55 gallon that works out to 418 grams or just under 15 ounces. Make a brine out of tank water and add it back over a day or two. Take the temp up to 84. When ever you do a water change add the same concentration of salt to the new water before adding it to the tank. Of course you will need to test for ammonia and nitrite during any treatment. Continue treatment for at least two weeks after the last spot drops. Always use a gravel vac to remove water. The Ich reproduces at the bottom of your tank. You have a lot of work ahead of you. Get your fish off of feeders. And oh yeah, the crayfish. Just keep him away from any fish for the four to six weeks and any hitch hikers will starve out. He can not be infected. Good luck. Don>
Mollies W/Ich 11/04/03 <Hi, Pufferpunk here> First, let me say WOW! what a great web-site. I have learned so much since finding your site. Thank you! <Thanks for the compliment!> My question is, how old do baby mollies need to be before you can treat them for ich? The fry are about 1 week and 3 days. There are 13 of them in a 5 gallon tank. I removed them from the main tank because I noticed ich on the mother and 1 guppy. In the main tank are 1 molly (used to be 2, another female lost her after birth), 3 guppies (1 male, 2 female). So far my method in the fry tank has been to keep the water temp at 80 F. Keep the tank lights off and put in 1 Tablespoon of salt. That seemed to help, most of the white spots are gone, but a couple of the fry still have 1 or 2 spots. <I personally don't use any meds for the treatment of ich. I would think newborn fish would not fair well w/any kind of meds. Here is the info I have printed on ich at my puffer website. The same goes for any fish. If some morning you get up and it looks like someone has salted the body, fins, and gills of your fish, you are looking at "Ich", sometimes called ick, or white spot disease. "Ich" is a protozoan parasite with the scientific name of Ichthyophthirius multifilius. It is the largest of the ciliated Protozoans. It is easily introduced into your tank by new fish or equipment or plants that have been moved from one tank to another. A quarantine tank is the best way to prevent introducing this parasite into your display tank. If you see ich on your fish they should be treated immediately. In heavily stocked tanks it can cause massive death rates within a very short period of time. Some symptoms before white spots appear may include flashing, clamped fins, weakness, loss of appetite, and decreased activity. In the case of heavy gill infestations, you may not see evidence of white spots, but may find your fish breathing heavily at the surface of your tank. Secondary bacterial and respiration difficulties may result, so keep an eye out for complications in addition to the ich infection. The best way to prevent ich, as I stated above, is to quarantine all incoming fish. A minimum of three weeks in quarantine (in my opinion) is the best way to go. When kept at 76 to 83 degrees, incoming fish that have been exposed to ich may show symptoms within the first 3 days. However, at cooler temperatures, ich outbreaks may take longer to show up because of its lengthened life cycle. Water temperature has a tremendous effect on how fast the life cycle of ich is completed. At water temperatures of 75 to 79 degrees F, the life cycle is completed in about 48 to 72 hours. In water temperatures below 75, it takes much longer for the parasite to complete its life cycle. LIFE CYCLE: There are three phases to the life cycle of this protozoan. Ich is susceptible to treatment at only one stage of its life cycle, so knowing the life cycle is important. ADULT PHASE: the parasite attaches itself under the mucus layer of the skin or gills, causing irritation and the appearance of small white spots. As the parasite matures, it feeds on blood and skin cells. After some time, the parasite breaks through the mucus layer and falls to the bottom of the aquarium. CYST PHASE: after falling to the bottom of the aquarium, the adult cyst bursts and divides into numerous daughter cells called tomites. FREE SWIMMING PHASE: after the cyst phase, the free swimming tomites search for a host. If a host fish is not found within 2 to 3 days, the parasite dies. Once a host is found the whole cycle begins again. These three phases take about 28 days at 70 degrees F but only 3 days at 80 degrees F. For this reason it is recommended that the aquarium water be raised to between 80-86 degrees F. for the duration of the treatment. If the fish can stand it, raise the temperature to 86 degrees. Raising the aquarium temperature in this manner will shorten the length of time between the cyst phase and the free swimming tomite stage. It is during the free swimming tomite stage that chemical treatment is effective in killing the parasite. During this time, whatever you use for treatment should be supplemented with daily or every other day water changes and gravel vacuuming to remove as many adult cysts and free swimming tomites as possible. TREATMENTS: Before starting treatment you should do at least a 25% to 30% water change and vacuuming of your tank. I do not like to use meds w/my puffers, except in a heavy infestation. One tablespoon of salt per 5 gals. of aquarium water, gradually raising the temperature to 86 degrees F. This is good if you have to treat BW fish who actually like salt as part of their aquarium habitat. Continue with this for a period of 21 days. Adding back 1 Tablespoon of salt for every 5 gals of aquarium water that you remove during water changes. One thing to remember with high temperatures is that you should run an additional air stone to oxygenate the water. There is less dissolved oxygen available in warm water than there is in water at cooler temperatures.> Thank you so much for your time, Jen <You're welcome & good luck. It sounds like your mollies are on their way to being healthy, well cared for little fishies! -- Pufferpunk> Treating clown loaches for ich (10/14/03) <Hi! Ananda the clown loach nut here tonight...> After a 35% water change, my 5 clown loaches developed ick. <Uh-oh.> No fish had been added to my tank in months so I'm pretty sure it was caused by the water change. I use Reverse Osmosis water and there is no control of temperature. <Yep, that'll do it. You need to get a container big enough to hold all your water-change water and get a heater for it.> I introduce it a gallon every 30 to 45 min.s or so so the tank has a chance to heat keep up. <The initial temperature shock is enough to trigger the ich.> ANYWAY, after the loaches developed ick, I tried Ick Away for several days (with charcoal filters removed and temperature up to 82) which did nothing to help. <Argh. I have yet to hear anything good about "Ick Away".> I then went to CopperSafe before leaving for the weekend. <Never use copper with loaches! They're just too susceptible to it.> When I returned, 3 of the 5 were dead and the other 2 were covered in Ick. Within a couple hours, they died too. <Sorry to hear that... hopefully you've done another water change to take care of the probable ammonia and nitrate spike?> None of my other fish have ick. <Clown loaches are ich magnets, so I'm not surprised to hear they got it bad but nothing else did...> My tank is a 30 gallon with an Emperor 400. <That's what I use on my 30 gallon tank. But...with copper added to the tank, the bio-wheels have been sterilized and are going to be ineffective until the tank re-cycles. You're going to have to do more frequent water changes for a while. Your other option is to get some Bio-Spira, which must be refrigerated until you use it, as it contains live nitrifying bacteria.> Fish are 3 Rummy Nose Tetras, 2 Corys, 2 Rosey Reds, 3 Red Platy's, 3 Black Molly's, and 3 Otocinclus. <You're almost at the maximum fish capacity this tank can hold. With the loaches, I would characterize that tank as overcrowded. I keep my loaches in a 55 gallon tank -- they're still fairly small, about 3" long -- with the knowledge that they're going to need at least a 90 gallon tank in a couple of years.> What is the BEST way to cure Clown Loaches of ICK. <Many people use their ich medication of choice at half-strength, for twice as long as is generally recommended. That, and they crank the tank temp up. Personally, I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to my clown loaches. I've used "FW Ecolibrium" when they had ich -- it's more expensive than most ich meds, but it's completely safe for scaleless fish. I have a couple of bottles around, though I've been able to avoid ich since the first time they got it by carefully matching new water to tank water for water changes and by quarantining any new fish that get added to their tank. I got the Ecolibrium through Drs. Foster & Smith (they're a WetWebMedia sponsor, so you can get to their web site from the banner at the top of the Daily FAQ page).> And while I'm at it, what's the best way to cure most fish of ICK? <Increased temperature: 86 degrees or higher for 10 days. And salt -- "freshwater" salt, not marine salt, since you don't want to change the pH. Your mollies and platies won't mind salt at all (mollies actually prefer some salt in the water). The rest of your fish should be able to tolerate a bit of it for a while. The level you need is 2 ppt salinity, which generally works out to a specific gravity of 1.002-1.003. Get the Aquarium Systems SeaTest hydrometer to check the specific gravity (it's the only one that measures low levels, except for the glass thermometer/hydrometers -- which are pretty easy to break). You'll need to find a temp. vs. S.G. chart to convert the actual S.G., since the SeaTest is calibrated for 76 degrees and your tank will probably have a higher temperature than that.> I've been searching the web high and low and I've seen nothing definite on the cure for ICK that seems to work. <One person's experiences with ich and her clown loaches: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=11808 > Thanks for a great website. <You're welcome -- check out our forums, too!> -Mike P.s. GO CUBS!!!!! <Ah, they lost tonight. :-( Maybe tomorrow night... --Ananda> Re: Ich on clown loaches (10/16/03) Ananda, thanks for the great info. <You're welcome!> I'll check out Drs. Foster & Smith for proper medication (by the way, their catalog is almost a quick guide to proper fish and tank care. It's indispensable.) <I use it a lot, too, but more for finding out which things are supposed to do what! But do compare their information to others' -- you may find that a phrase can be misinterpreted, or someone else's version may make more sense, etc.> My LFS told me that CopperSafe was the *BEST* way to cure ick for Loaches. <Ack! Sounds like someone was seriously mis-informed....> I prefer the method of Sea Salt and raised temperatures to any medication. Not because of the cost, but because I hate adding any chemicals. Is there a salt level/temp setting I can use all the time that would be preventative against ick? <Hmmm. Any increased temperature for long periods is going to speed the metabolism of the fish as well as any parasites -- and speeding the fishes' metabolism will shorten their lifespan.> Just curious. Or after the 10 days at 86 degrees should I just bring it back down to 78? <That would be my recommendation.> Thanks again for the help and a big thank you to the team for such an informative website. -Mike <Thanks for the kind words. --Ananda> P.s. Go CUBS - Game 7! :) <*grumble* There were no fireworks in Chi-town last night....> Ich and Shrimp Dear Wet Web Media, <Hi, Laura, Sabrina here today> Is there any ich cure out there that is safe for ghost shrimp and freshwater plants? <To be honest, no, not really. You can use malachite green at half strength for twice as long as recommended.... Rid-Ich comes to mind (a formalin/malachite green mix), but there are plenty of other concoctions out there using malachite green. I think Kordon sells it, too, as just plain ol' Malachite Green.> I have a densely planted tank and about 50 ghost shrimp, so removing the shrimp isn't an option. What else can I do? I don't want to lose my hand-collected native fish... <Why not remove the fish to treat? If that's at all possible, then you can treat with whatever will work best for your species without worrying about the shrimp and plants (leave the tank fallow for a few weeks, though). Raising temperature and adding salt will help, and if the fish are salt-tolerant, you can remove the plants to a separate container for a few weeks (provide PVC or something for cover instead) and salt the tank to a specific gravity of 1.003-ish for a while. Ghost shrimp can definitely take this - can even be acclimated to saltwater conditions, if done slowly and carefully.> Thanks for any help you can give, Laura <Sure thing. Hope all goes well, -Sabrina> Ich fix with crab? (12/18/03) <Hi! Ananda here this snowy afternoon...> I have a problem with ich. The medication bottle says I can't use it with invertebrates and I have a red crab. It also says the dose is half as strong for tetras (I have 5 Neons) as it is for live bearers. <Sounds like Quick Cure.> What should I do? Use 2/3 dose and take the crab out for 3 days? <I would move the crab to a different tank. Then you can use a half-strength dose for a double duration.> What if the crab dies from the stress of being removed? <I think that's unlikely unless you don't acclimate him slowly enough. If you have a spare bit of air tubing, you can use that to set up drip acclimation. With the crab in a container of water from his current tank, use the air tubing and start siphoning water from the new tank. Put an overhand knot in the air tubing so that the water just drips from the new tank into the container the crab is in. When the container gets full, pour out half of the water. Do that once or twice more, and the water in the crab's container should be close enough to what's in the new tank to move the crab in without stressing him.> I have another small tank I could put him in where there are guppy fry and one baby sunset wag. Can you offer any suggestions? <Already did... :) > I'd really appreciate it. <No problemo.> ( By the way, I'm the one who asked about the interbreeding of balloon mollies with regular mollies. <Yep, I remember that.> So far they haven't even gotten pregnant and I've had them together for about 9 months or even longer! Remember I have one balloon molly male and two regular female mollies. Just wanted to offer the information in case you are interested.) <Thanks for that; I'm always interested in molly info. Do you know how old the females are? I've seen "female" mollies suddenly develop male characteristics when they were about a year old...I call those "late-developing" males. It's possible you have two of those -- or perhaps the mollies you have are from genetically-incompatible species. Or there could be other issues....> Thank you, Leslie Wilson <You're quite welcome, and thanks for the molly info! --Ananda> ICK AND FRY HI, Rachel here. <hello, Magnus here.> My Platy fry are 2 weeks and I swear every time at look at them they are bigger! <That does tend to be the way with babies, they grow. hehe. But, seriously i know what you mean, my platy fry would seem to double in size in no time.> Now, a threesome of bleeding heart tetras have Ick! Can I treat the fish with CURE-ICK and not hurt the baby? <Young fish are very sensitive to medicines. I would set up a quarantine tank and move the bleeding hearts to that tank, so you can medicate them safely there. This will work best for the tetras and the platy fry. Good luck. -Magnus> Ick Ick Ick Hi, I have two Orandas and two albino clawed frogs. I noticed white spots on the two Orandas. I went to the pet store and purchased Ick Guard II, for scaleless fish. I was told that I could leave my frogs in with these treatment and it would still help my Orandas. I was wondering if this was true? I also wanted to know why my fish get ick and what I can do to prevent it in the future. Thanks so much, Aaron <<Dear Aaron; I don't recommend treating the tank with the frogs in it. You can simply remove them, and put them into a bucket for a few days, until the treatment is over. Cover the bucket so they cannot escape, and add a bubbler for aeration. After the treatment, do a 50% water changes, put the carbon back into your filter, and then you can re-add the frogs. For future reference, please test your water regularly, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, do regular partial water changes, and please make sure your tank temp is always stable!-Gwen>> <The formalin in this trtmt. will kill your frogs. RMF> Just lost my Rainbow Shark Hi Crew - 3 days ago I spotted Ich on my fish. Started treating with "Nox-Ich" immediately, raised the water temp to 82deg and added some aquarium salt. The Ich appears to be gone, but this afternoon the Shark suddenly started gasping for air, turned pink around his chin and gills and turned upside-down. We moved him right away into a clean tank, but sadly this didn't help. He just died :^( The question is: what do you think killed him? All the other fish seem fine - a Pleco, several Platies, 2 (new) Opaline Gouramis and one Marbled Hatchet. Except for the Gouramis, they've all been tank mates for quite some time. Also, where did the Ich come from? The Gouramis are new, but have never shown any signs of Ich. We did get a new piece of driftwood (from an established tank) 2 weeks ago. And some new plants. Do plants and wood carry Ich? Thanks for any insights you can offer. < Many times fish that show no signs of a disease can still carry it into a new aquarium. This is why we here often recommend a quarantine tank for all new critters before they go into the established aquarium. Your new Gouramis had the ich on them and passed it on to the other fish. Some fish are sensitive to the malachite green. Rainbow sharks are not listed as a sensitive fish but I think they are. When in doubt I would use the Nox-ich at one-half the recommended dosage.-Chuck> Anne A Cycle of Questions Hi again and thanks for your response. I do have some further questions. I believe I must remove the live plants from the tank during treatment? <Yep, Although some tough plants can handle the salt. Keep them in a fishless container for at least one month. Adding them back earlier could bring back the Ick> Should I keep the temp up at 86 during the minimum 2 week treatment? <Yes, Ick can only be destroyed during one phase of it's three stage lifecycle. Higher temps speed up the lifecycle and kills it quicker. Do not raise the temp until the salt is in> During this minimum 2 week treatment, do I continue the daily water changes and replace the salt in the new water? <Continue testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Do water changes if you see any of the first two or when nitrates climb above 20ppm. Yes, you would have to replace the salt in any new water. Mix it in before adding it to the tank. Be careful to keep the same concentration. Doing 50% water changes makes it easy to figure out the dose. Remember, treat for two weeks AFTER the last spot drops. Very important!> Being how I have a whisper power filter that has the filter and the sponge-thing, is there a way to remove the sponge thingy to a bucket or something therefore preserving the biological filter? <Not really. The bacteria will starve without an ammonia source (the fish). Keeping it with fish will spread the Ick> Or if I were to go out and buy a small QT tank, could I use the established filter or some water from the established tank in the new QT tank? or would that just be contaminating a new QT? My concern is that possibly killing my tank and causing it to recycle. Would my existing fish (powder blue Gourami, 2 clown loaches) die in the recycle? YIKES! I am not aware that these are "hardy" fish. <The best way to do this would be a small, bare bottom QT. Fill it with water from the problem tank. Add the fish, but not the filter. A simple sponge filter, or even just a airstone will do. With all fish out of the main, turn up the temp to 86. Throw in a small frozen shrimp to feed the filter. A little fish food added daily will also work. Let it sit this way for 30 days while you treat the fish in QT. The parasite will starve out with no fish host. Test the QT daily and do water changes to correct spikes in ammonia or nitrite. If you are doing enough water changes to control ammonia and nitrite, there is no need for a filter. Just an airstone. Treatment will prevent the establishment of any bio filtration anyway> Could I possibly use some sort of "dip" or "bath"? I guess what I am really saying is. I can probably afford to go and buy a small QT tank (with filter, heater, hood, and I could use my existing air pump for the new QT) but by doing so, (will probably get in the dog house with hubby) it would be starting out with new water? new cycle? same dangers? (ammonia, nitrites).. help.. I'm so confused! <All you really need is the tank with a glass lid, heater and airstone. You do not need a lighted hood or a filter. A 50% water change in a 5 gallon tank is easy. Just siphon the water from the bottom to remove the Ick that is reproduction mode. A dip may (doubtful though, IMO) clear the fish, but not the tank> If I were to go and buy a QT tank, what are your recommendations for this route? I understand that if I remove the fish from the main tank, that the ich will die because there will be no host. So I think that I can possibly save my main tank by getting a QT tank? <Correct, just add that ammonia source (shrimp).> Should I use the water from the main tank in the QT tank? And since I have to buy a filter for the QT tank, can I just put my established filter in the new QT tank and put the new filter in the main tank? Or will this also cause a recycle in the main tank? Or can I maybe switch out the sponge thing? (i.e.: keep the sponge in the main tank, and add a new filter, and put the old filter from the main tank in the new QT tank?) If I were to use new filter in the main tank, that contains the carbon, this would clear up the meds from the main tank water right? A final thought here... I am getting some algae on the walls of the tank (due to the lack of an algae eater), would this be enough "stuff" to keep the biological filter going if I put new filter assy. in the main tank and moved the established filter assy. to the new QT tank? <Only if it died and rotted> Ugh.. ok.. now I am getting a headache LOL... thanks for your help and support in this matter! Nancy <Now my heads spinning with filter jumping all around. But I think I answered all above. Main point is that you can save yourself a lot of money, work and worry, along with lives, by using a QT before adding any living thing to your tank. Moving an established filter will move the Ick, and any new filter will need to do through a cycling period. So any way you do it, you're going through a recycling. Better in a small tank while letting the large go fallow. Don> Fiddler Crabs, Ich Problems? Is there a safe medication to treat for ich that will not kill my fiddler crabs? <Yikes! Ryan here today. We use a quarantine method to treat infected fish- That involves removing the infected animals, and treating them separately. In that case, your crabs are safe!> It's been 20 years since I've had an aquarium, and it seems that many rules about keeping and caring for freshwater fish have changed. <I'll say!> I did my homework and researched the subject so that I felt comfortable with my choices. About 2 months ago I purchased a 55 gallon aquarium, and started with about 5 Neons to get the water cycle to do its thing. I now have several fish: 5 swordtails, 6 mollies, 5 dwarf platies 6 dwarf Gouramis, a Pleco, 6 Cory catfish and 6 fiddler crabs. (I love the fiddler crabs.) <That Pleco will soon outgrow the 55 gallon tank...I'd inquire early about trading him for a smaller Pleco once he's about 6 inches.> Everything was going well, including the birth of about 30 babies (black mollies, silver Lyretail mollies and sunset dwarf platies) until last weekend when I did a 25% water change to correct nitrate and total alkalinity levels. I also rearranged the fake plants, rocks and log to allow the fish to have more swimming room and to ensure a better water flow from the filter. I must have really stressed my poor fish. The other day I noticed that 2 of my dwarf Gourami had small slits and little holes in their upper fins. That evening I noticed my male silver Lyretail had trouble swimming and was at a 45 degree downward angle, and sometimes faced straight down. I immediately added extra aquarium salt to the tank and increased the water temp to 82 degrees (from 78). The following day, after work, I purchased a 6 gallon 'hospital tank', Maracyn and Maracyn-Two for my 3 sick fish. Unfortunately, when I got home, one of the Gourami had died. It looked to be sick for only 24 hours, so I was pretty shocked to find it dead that quickly. I checked all my fish and decided that only 2 of the other Gourami had what is probably Fin and Tail Rot, so I put them, along with my male Molly into the hospital tank, using water from the 55 gallon tank. (I didn't want to stress them further.) I've been medicating them for 3 days now and they are looking much better. My Molly is actually starting to swim somewhat normally, so I believe there is hope for him. <Sounds hopeful!> Now for the bad part... I came home from work today and found 3 more fish in the 55 gallon tank that look like they have Fin and Tail Rot. It also looks like there may be a white spot or two on these same fish. I have CopperSafe that I was going to use in the hospital tank if I needed to treat for Ich, but I can't use it in my 55 gallon tank as it would kill my crabs. I've started treating the big tank for Fin and Tail Rot, but am not sure what to do about the possible ich, as I don't want to kill my crabs. <You're going to need to treat all infected fish in the QT tank. Next time, add the fish to the display tank AFTER they have successfully completed 6 weeks of quarantine. Then you won't have the same issues. This time around, it's the long road my friend. The answer to your question is no- There is no ICH treatment that is truly crab-safe. Good luck, Ryan> Chris |
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