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FAQs on Marine Diseases 8

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Bacterial infection... Mmm, no... more likely Protozoan 7/6/08 I have a 600 gallon saltwater tank with the following fish: queen angel, emperor angel, French angel, panther grouper, Volitans lion, lunare wrasse, harlequin tusk wrasse, niger trigger, blue cheek trigger, Naso tang, powder blue tang, gold banded maroon clown fish, and an anemone. All the fish are between 4 inches and 8 inches in length, with most around 5-6 inches right now. Tank is about 3 months old and has 650 lbs of live rock that has a thin covering of brown/greenish alga. The alga does not look like hair alga and actually looks good because it makes the rock look natural. <Ok> All the fish are eating Dainichi and spectrum marine and veggie pellets EXTREMELY well, <Good> as well as PE mysis shrimp, squid, frozen krill, and Prime flake food. I add Selcon vitamin solution to the food also. They all are voracious eaters and all are quite fat and plump looking. In the last 2-3 days I have noticed the queen and French angel and even the grouper have a cloudy swollen left eye (yes, it is the left eye only on each fish). <Interesting... and frightening> Have done two 15% water changes each month since the tank was set up. All fish were added together except for the niger which was added 2 months after setup and adapted immediately. <... were these animals quarantined? How acclimated otherwise?> Nitrite is 0, nitrate is about .10-.15, <Mmm... an interesting number... what units here? Not ppm, mg./l... are you sure this is Nitrate?> spec. grav. is 1.023, pH is 8, water temp is 80 degrees F. BIG UV sterilizer as well as an auto regulated ozonizer, <Ah, good... what setting is this unit set for in pH, micro Siemens per cm.?> and two protein skimmers rated for a total of 900 gallons. The affected fish are acting completely normal with the exception of some slightly increased amount of aggression toward the other fish. The two affected angels seem to pick on the grouper more than the other fish for whatever reason. I know it is best to use a quarantine tank, <Oh my friend... in a system of this size... for what you have invested monetarily, emotionally... it IS mandatory> but since it is nearly impossible to capture these fish in this tank, is there any product that I can add to their food rather than just add to the water? <Mmm, possibly "Garlic"...> I know it may be better to just not add any meds and do more frequent water changes, <Uhh...> but I was just checking all options from you guys. Sorry for the long description, etc, but I am just trying to give you guys all the info (hopefully I didn't leave too much out) Steve <Actually need more info., not less... It may well be... scratch that... it is almost a certainty that you have a pathogen at play here... Hopefully it will not become "hyperinfective"... so virulent that it outright kills your fish livestock... Much that we can chat re... but where to start here? Am hopeful the Premnas is protecting the anemone from being consumed by your Pomacanthids... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: bacterial infection 7/7/08 Bob (or whomever could respond), <Am here> I read your comments to my last question yesterday about the swollen, cloudy eye on my French and queen angels in my 600 gallon system. My mistake on the Nitrate values, that should have been 5-10 and not .15 (sorry), <Ah, thank you for this clarification> pH of the water is around 8.0 and nitrites are not measurable. You had questioned as to whether my maroon clown protects my anemone from the angels, etc and the answer is YES. <Good> I can't even try to move or touch the anemone myself without the clownfish trying to kill me and the anemone is doing great (not certain of the species). All the fish were quarantined in multiple "hospital tanks" prior to going into the main system for 3 weeks (I had to rent multiple tanks from the LFS due to the aggression and no. of fish involved so I could still add them around the same time). The niger was the last fish added. None of the fish showed any evidence of ich, Lymphocystis, cloudy eyes, or anything else during that time. My ozonizer is set to keep the ozone level at 350-400 (not certain of units here) which is set up based on the instructions with the device. <This is about right> The LFS uses multiple ozonizers on their tanks and they also help set this one up. I am planning on getting a refugium for this tank also in the near future. <Good> My main question was: do I have any option to treat for these probable bacterial or fungal diseases on these angels with some kind of medicated food (I don't really believe in garlic stuff, and I am currently supplementing with Selcon) if I am unable to catch these guys in this tank to place into quarantine. <Mmm, a tough choice to make... I don't think antibiotic laced food would do any harm here... store bought/commercially made or DIY, but also am dubious re how much good it might do as well> Some of the pieces of live rock in this tank weigh between 90-100 lbs. To have to get these fish out, I think I would have to get a good portion of the live rock out too and I think that will be pretty stressful on the fish also. I have read about using a non barb fish hook to capture fish like this, but how do you avoid some of the fish you don't want captured from getting on the hook? <Maybe only by being "a good fisher"> They all go after food very aggressively. <A good sign> Also, even if I get these "affected" fish out and in the quarantine tank, how will I know that my system is not still "infected". So wouldn't I have to just get all the fish out to put in quarantine to somehow treat the tank itself anyway in addition to just treating the fish? <A bit of reading re infectious agents... your, all systems are "infected" to degrees, kinds... A/the larger issue is whether the preponderance of given likelihood weighs toward action or no> And if so, how do I keep these 11 or 12 aggressive fish from killing each other in a small quarantine tank for several weeks? When I initially added the fish, I had rented several quarantine tanks from the LFS, but I just don't have room, capability to have all those around all the time. I guess I could rent them again from the LFS. (and yes, I do clean the tanks well before using them) <I would not move these fishes myself...> I am actually wondering if this could be trauma related, because the angels love to turn sideways to get at certain areas of the rock at the water surface to pick at algae <Mmm, are quite agile...> and I wonder if that could be why the left eye only is affected in both fish? <A coincidence surely> It would be the left eye that is close to the rock when they are in this position which is what makes me think of this. If it were bacterial/fungal, wouldn't both eyes be affected? The fish don't have any other marks on them and no visible signs of ich that I have seen anywhere. <... again, depending on root cause/s> In any event, should I still tear the tank down, removing hundreds of lbs of live rock, etc and get all these fish out even if they are acting and eating normally? <I would assuredly not do this> None of them are hiding or acting irregular and they continue to eat any foods I put in the tank for them. The two angels are eating very well and do actively graze around all the time. They sometimes show aggression toward each other or their tankmates, but nothing causing any fin damage or long term problems. <Fine> And finally, realizing that consistent water changes and water quality is of paramount importance (and water quality is great at this time), what would prevent this from happening next month or 6 months from now, even if I don't add any other livestock (which I don't plan on doing as I feel the tank is fully stocked given the potential size these fish could attain)? I just don't want to be tearing my whole setup down that frequently if you know what I mean. This is a little tougher than a 30 or 50 gallon system to catch the fish and do all that. Thanks, Steve <Really just time going by here... should see this situation rectify itself. I would do nothing overt. BobF> Re: bacterial infection 7/7/08 Bob, <Steve> Thank you for the very quick response on my problem. I will keep an eye (no pun intended) on the eyes of my angels and hope for the best right now. <Good. Is what I would do as well> Let me ask your opinion on a different matter with this 600 gallon system: Assuming this cloudy eye problem resolves and everything is "back to normal", there were a few more fishes that I was considering for this tank in the future. My current "crew" is as follows: niger trigger (3 inches), blue cheek trigger (4-4.5 inches), Volitans lion (6 inches), panther grouper (6 inches), maroon gold banded clown (3-3.5 inches), lunare wrasse (7-7.5"), harlequin tusk wrasse (7"), porcupine puffer (4"), French angel (4"), queen angel (6.5-7"), emperor angel (4-4.5"), powder blue tang (4.5"), and Naso tang (9"). I have been wanting to add an epaulette shark and a snowflake eel to the group at some point but my LFS can't find an eel large enough that won't slip through the overflow box slits and the shark is just hard to find period. <And likely hard to feed here... too much competition> The guy at my LFS also thinks the eel (and maybe the shark as well) would not be a good idea because they can dig enough in the sand which may cause the BIG pieces of live rock to topple or become unsteady and maybe hit the glass in front or back. Your thoughts? <Mmm, a minor matter here in my estimation. Am sure you've set the larger rock down first, before the sand... that it's stable...> I would also like to get a Picasso Trigger in several months to give these fish even more time to "establish dominance" in the tank and if I did I would get him quite small because I know they can get rather mean with age. <Less so than the Niger almost always> My LFS guy says he would NOT get the Picasso Trigger due to its attitude later in life. He says it would be fine early on with the other fish being in there a while and it being small, but over time it would become too mean. Your thoughts? <Posted... see WWM re the Balistids. BobF> Steve

Helpful Website, Premnas, dis 6/19/08 http://www.aquaworldnet.com/awmag/diseases.htm <http://www.aquaworldnet.com/awmag/diseases.htm> Hi Chris, An informative sight! Donna <Thanks, will have Bob and it to our links if he feels it appropriate.> <Chris>

Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites, 6/12/08 Hello Chris, <Hi> I have found a sight with some useful info that may benefit all. <Great> Please preview, and scroll down to External Gas disease- similar to my clowns' but the sacs look more like water balloons. She is still alive today, and I'll be doing the second treatment soon. <Good, does look similar, might very well be related.> It truly caught my surprise that you had mentioned the possibility of cancer. That would be my luck. That disease took my entire family, by the time I was 33 years old. POO! <Sorry to hear, my family has also suffered from this disease, but cancer is fairly common in fish as in humans.> Thank you Chris for all of your assistance. <Welcome> http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html<http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html> <Chris>

Koran angel question, neuromast destruction reading - 06/08/2007 Hi, your site is wonderful, but I would like to confirm if what I am seeing is a disease or just color change starting. I fear it is the lateral line disease. <Is> &nbsp; He is a 300 gallon (1 year old system) with 150 lbs of live rock algae staring to grow real nice), deep sand bed, and a maroon clown for a neighbor.&nbsp; they get along and they both are in no stress.&nbsp; The water parameters have been great.&nbsp; I have two filter/skimmers on the tank rapids pro) which keep the water crystal clear.&nbsp; I feed him krill, red algae, occasional vitamin enriched brine shrimp hear they are like potato&nbsp;chips)&nbsp; but have recently switched to Spirulina/chlorella/brine shrimp/mysis shrimp frozen mix, and he loves the ocean nutrition formula one flakes(derivitives of fish and veggies, cereals, molluscs and crustaceans, oils, algae and minerals).&nbsp; He acts normal, eats heartily, and is not much of a bully.&nbsp; He swims right up to the glass and scares only at fast movements.&nbsp; At first he got some blotches on his face which is will send a photo of this stage.&nbsp; I can not get him to stay still for a good photo but now&nbsp;the whiteness has covered his face and a white line has gone&nbsp;down the side to the tail.&nbsp;&nbsp;Only his lips and eyelids have the blue, I can distinguish the white strips there still.&nbsp; Can my clown get this as well?&nbsp;&nbsp;It swims around all day pretty happily and feeds well.&nbsp;&nbsp;Swims around the top some and rubs himself continuously on the sides of the tank.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope the&nbsp; photo helps, and how can I treat this if it is the lateral line disease???&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Not sure what to look for... Atlantic blue tang sickness/death 5/12/08 Crew, Honestly not sure what to look under... I bought a small Atlantic Blue Tang, 3-4", still in it's Juvi coloration. I brought him home and housed him in a 20 gallon QT tank, bare bottom, some live rock moved from the main tank, and a small hang on back power filter. He was purchased on Saturday, and did wonderfully for a week. On the 7th eve (last night) I found him vertical on the tank floor, his face down, tail up, leaning against the live rock. I was putting some Caulerpa (sp) algae in there at the time. Shortly thereafter I saw him right himself, swim up, eat a branch of algae, and resume normalcy. This morning he is much worse, upside down, still alive and breathing, but obviously not for long. He had been fed for a week with mysis, marine cuisine, emerald entree, etc. Water at start of QT is the same as it is now, with 0ppm Ammonia, Nitrites, <10 Nitrates, PH of 8.2 and temp of 79 degrees. Salinity is 1.025. He was doing PERFECT until last night. Eating wonderfully. The only thing that I have found was in Mr. Fenner's book, swim bladder disease, but I only mention this because it's the only thing that has similar symptoms. In his state, his color is the same, he's just upside down and dying. Why the rapid decent? It just doesn't fit a parasite mold to me, and it was so sudden that treatment was, well, too late, even if I knew what to treat it for. <Sometimes these things happen. Juveniles are particularly vulnerable to the stresses of being captured, shipped, etc. The fish was likely already injured/sick when you got it. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm> Thanks, Thomas <Best, Sara M.>

missing upper lip on powder blue tang 5/12/08 Hello all, This is the first time I have ever posted to the site. The knowledge pass is incredible and I appreciate you taking the time to help me solve my problem. A couple of weeks ago we noticed our PBT no eating any of the prepared foods we feed our tank (Mysis Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Krill, and rotifers, rotated or combined but not all together). We also offer Nori and variety of Brown and Red algae. We moved the BPT to a hospital tank yesterday. We have a little live rock and bunch of macro/micro algae. We moved it there in hope it would start eating. This morning I noticed his upper lip is missing. We are thinking the Social Wrasse is picking at (it tries to picks on everything). <Perhaps... but what are the sizes of these tanks? (the display and the hospital) How big are the fishes?> I have Blonde Naso, Yellow tang, yellow Coris, red spotted blenny, 5 blue Chromis, 2 clowns, and a lyre tail Anthias in a 200 gal tank. Any help would be appreciated. <It's hard to say what happened without knowing more about your system. A picture of the injured fish would help too.> Dave & Robin <Best, Sara M.>

RE: missing upper lip on powder blue tang -05/13/08 Sara M. thank you for your quick response. <No problem> The display tank is 5x2x2 with a 50gal sump and the hospital tank is 10 gal. <This is too small for a hospital tank.> The chromis and the wrasse will be removed this weekend. Do you need water params? <I would move the tang back to the display after the other fish are removed. If your water params are normal, then I would suspect something is bullying the tang. However, it might not be one of your other fish. It's also possible you might have a mantis shrimp or crab in the tank somewhere. Just in case, do listen for clicking sounds and keep an eye out for claws. Also keep an eye on the tang to see if it's getting worse/better. Time will tell, keep in touch.> Dave & Robin <Best, Sara M.> Sick saltwater fish 04/15/2008 Hi guys, got a bit of a problem here. <<Good evening, Andrew here>> I have a 35 gallon upright saltwater aquarium with 45 lb. of LR and a 6 inch sand bed, various kinds of macro algae & some mushrooms and a large feather duster , 4 hermit crabs, 6 snails & a shore shrimp along with the various cornucopia of other critters that come along with live rock. My fish are a Lubbock's wrasse 2 ocellaris clowns & a fire fish. Tank has been running 1 year. <<Sounds good>> The only thing I've added was some macro algae a few weeks ago. My nitrates & all are good but my temperature's around 70 although I usually keep it around 75-73. Yesterday I cleaned the sand & filters along with a 20% water change & today my fish have a problem. <<I do hope your not disturbing the sandbed when cleaning>> My largest clown the female is active but is swimming funny with a sort of side to side tilt. She only seems to be using her right fin to swim with, the other one isn't clamped or damaged but she is not using it. She ate a little but didn't show her usual appetite. The male is swimming normally but hardly ate anything, what he did put into his mouth he mostly spit back out. The fire fish & wrasse eat & act normally, both clowns & the fire fish have 1-3 what looks a lot like ich spots on them but it's marginally larger than ich and more...."soft" looking. My Qt tank is um...broken. (what a mess) I'm not sure what I can do for my fish. <<This could potentially be raised spot, perhaps stress induced, which can be dealt with by providing more variety in a staple diet, add vitamins to food. Please do monitor closely, if a quarantine is available, somehow, i would arrange this and move to there to better monitor/feed. Please do check out this webpage and linked articles and FAQ's. Playing attention to the direct linked page of clownfish diseases. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm >> I have battled ich once in the past but I'm not so sure that this is ich. The fish are not scratching or rubbing & do not appear to be having any difficulty breathing & the wrasse is completely unaffected. Any idea what's going on? <<Please do read, confer with the above. I have a feeling this may not be Ich. Hope this helps. Regards. A Nixon>>

Marine tank 04/01/2008 <<Hello Mike and Jill, Andrew today>> Hello. I have a marine aquarium that has some kind of disease in it. About a week ago I purchased a fish that I later realized had an infection. Within a week all of my damsel fish, clown fish, and Angel fish were dead. I found out that my salinity was high a few days before my clown fish died. My tank had a salinity of 1.030 and I immediately fixed it. Currently I have a diamond goby and a pajama cardinal fish still alive. The diamond goby is fine, however I am not sure about the pajama cardinal. He has not been acting normal. He usually is out in the open but now he is in the rocks. He also has some small white dots on his body but he is not scratching himself. They are only on his fins and have been there for almost two weeks! He is still eating and living in adequate conditions. I don't know what to do and would greatly appreciate any help you could give me. Please respond ASAP! <<Sounds like the fish is suffering from marine Ich. My suggestion would be to remove both the remaining fish to a quarantine tank, treat using hyposalinity, which lasts about 6 weeks. While they are in the Quarantine tank, this period will allow the display tank to fall fallow and the Ich will die as there are no hosts available for the parasite to attach to. Please read more here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm >> Regards, Mike & Jill Araujo <<Hope this helps, regards. A Nixon>>

Saltwater disease??? Reading... Oh great and knowledgeable Bob, <"That's how we laugh our days away at the merry olde land of Oz"> I have read until my eyes are the shape of the monitor... I am about to be in divorce court.. my back is killing me from falling asleep on the couch... and I have laptop burns on my thighs... <Some fun now!> It seems as I kill one disease, I get another...i started with Ich Attack <...> ...400 bucks worth... that didn't work at all as i continued to loose fish, so I went to the LFS and they recommended Formalin... <....> that seems to have taken care of the Ich, but now my powder brown tang has a bunch of brownish/black dots... <Poisoned> not spots like the ich but like he is getting splatter painted. Also, after three treatments of formalin, my Porcupine puffer has what appears to be chemical burns on his tail... <Also> VERY DEPRESSING, as this is my favorite fish... (also the wife's). Every thing I read, and everyone I talk to has a new remedy. I can't use copper as I have 700lbs of live rock, the organic stuff is not working, and the formalin seems to be bringing on a whole new rain of problems. <You put Formalin in your main display (Say this with the same intonation as Mike as in "You fed chili to a baby?!"> Taking down the tank seems like my only resort. Specifically, what do you recommend to keep my current setup and fish but loose the disease? <..........> Oh and BTW I just added an 80watt UV light to the system. Jim <............. am running out of ......s..... You need to drain the system, remove the fish.... All posted over and over... Where? Read: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm BobF>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/22/08 Bob, <Jim... just watched Akira Kurosawa/Toshiro Mifune's 1961 classic Yohimbo a couple nights back...> The flat greeting should indicate you're making me read more... <Ah... you are getting it> Honestly, thank you for all your help...as confused as I am right now...I'll be in touch. <Hotay> You can't feed chili to a baby?????????....Uh oh...HONEEEEEY!!!!! Thanks again, Jim <Keep reading! Be chatting, B>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/22/08 Bob, This is the tail that looks like a chemical burn...what do you think? Toshirô <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm and the linked files above. B>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/22/08 Bob, <Yosh!> You mean YoJimbo... I'd like to play Toshirô in this situation and eliminate both sides for my own good by eBaying a tank for sale... <Heeeee! Good one> but I'd really end up in divorce court then... Jim <Stay the course my jabulani... B>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/23/08 Bob, <Mmmm, Jim> Vibriosis kinda looks like the disease I am dealing with, But I am not sure. Reading the forum questions is proving to be a difficult thing for me as I have to read all of them to find a situation that closely resembles mine. <Use "Boolean logic" in the Google search tool, read the cache'd views...> The information papers you wrote on the website are much more helpful. By the looks of things I am going to lose my Lemon Butterfly as the "red spot that kills" has started on him. I am attaching a few pictures of the copper banded butterfly that I lost last week, which has the same "red spot", for a possible identification of the problem/disease. <Did you expose these fishes to formalin, in your main tank? They're burned Jim, "I'm just a doctor, dang it"> I am really getting discouraged here as all this reading I have done has left me confused and unsure. Mixed with the fact that I cannot remove the fish from the current tank because the live rock is glued together and I can't catch the ALL the fish, <... one more time... "The old folks think I'm fine, in NY city...": Drain the tank Jim... treat the fishes elsewhere...> I have no choice <...> but to medicate 550 gallons, and it gets quite expensive to medicate for something that I may or may not have. In the pictures, the lines through the fish are from the freezer bag and the white clumps by his eyes are ice. The issue to look at is the big red spot on his belly. <... Environmental likely> Also, the Porcupine Puffer looks like he is pealing from a sun burn on his body and his tail has the "red spot of death" on it. I have also attached a picture of his top side and you have already seen the tail section. I can't find anything in the forums that discuss anything like what I am dealing with. I know this is going to sound harsh but I really mean it in a humble, desperate way... I'd appreciate a full opinion or idea and not just a web link. Jim <... all-stated here, previously... You poisoned these fishes, your system. Bob Fenner>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/23/08 Bob, Here are some pictures of the Lemon Butterfly...last night a small red spot...this morning...see picture... help... Jim <A goner... env. or infectious...? B>

Re: Saltwater disease??? 2/23/08 Bob, <Jim> thanks for being at your computer on a Saturday morning... A goner...I agree...but what is the disease? I had the copper band die just like that but that was well before formalin...so it can't be a formalin burn...what is the name of this disease? and why did a 3 day treatment of formalin not kill the ich? the lemon butterfly is covered. <Can't tell from here my friend... Please... read on WWM re Infectious Diseases of marines... for what you have invested in your system, livestock... financially and personally... I'd get, read a copy of Ed. Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment", and a cheapy microscope... perhaps a QX series... all posted... B>

Attention: Sara M - fish health issues -12/15/2007 Hi Sara, (or whoever takes this one) I wrote a while ago about an Ich problem in my saltwater tank (I cycled the Ich out). Well, it seems that I've come across another problem. This time, I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA as to what the problem is. As I wrote before, I have; 29g BioCube SG: 1.024 - 1.026 Temp: 78F - 80F Occupants; 2 Ocellaris Clowns, a (slightly miscolored) Watchman Goby, Clown Goby (Black), a bunch of snails, and 3 lil' crabs. Live Rock with mushroom corals, Candycane coral, a few Zoanthids, and some clove / pipe-organ coral. Water parameters: Normal About 9 months ago, I introduced 3 Clown Gobies to the tank. One green. One yellow, and one black. The green one disappeared within a few hours. When purchased, the black and yellow ones appeared normal. Within a couple of days, I noticed what appeared to be small protrusions coming from their bodies. It almost appeared as if they were "flaring" their scales. <Were they also swollen at all?> When I brought them back the LFS, the folks there (very knowledgeable) told me they appeared to have Dropsy. They recommended that I either quarantine them, or humanely destroy them. Unfortunately, I destroyed them. <Yikes!!> Last week, I went out and bought 1 more black Clown Goby. I placed him in my QT for a week. At night, it's colors would fade to a light grey with small black spots (normal, I think), and during the day, back to black. <Normal, but it can also be a sign of stress.> When I introduced the lil' guy to the BioCube, it took about 10 minutes, and this one started changing colors. It had lighter spots (not white that didn't appear to be Ich), but started manifesting those "protrusions" again. <wow> I tried to reintroduce him back to the QT, but he's a lot faster than I, and now he's missing. <Hmmm, he's probably in a "better place" now...> Could there be something in the tank that's causing this? <Certainly... there's likely something wrong with your water parameters.> or is the problem with the fish? I just don't want to be (unintentionally) bringing something into the tank that's going to be harmful to the other feesh. <Dropsy is not caused by any one particular pathogen (that we know of). It's something that tends to happen to already stressed/weakened fish. There's likely something wrong with your tank that's causing these fish to be susceptible to these ailments. Or, if you're SURE there's nothing wrong with your water quality, it's possible that the LFS is not caring for them well and that they are already weakened when you get them. Do you watch the fish in the store for several weeks (or at least days) before you purchase them? You should. And, of course, you should not purchase new arrivals.> Thanks again for your help! DJ <De nada, Sara M.>

Re: I am stumped! Comm. losses 12/5/07 Hello Bob! Thank you for your response. I have spent the last few weeks monitoring our systems at work, and based on your suggestion, I have narrowed the problem down to the water supply. <Ahh!> Thank you very much for your help. I have also let the manager know that the filter needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Of course, that has not happened yet... but hopefully soon. <Do keep on them> We still have some fish deaths in our freshwater section (nothing out of the ordinary) but only one death in the saltwater section (a yellow tang with a mouth disease that was probably too big to have been wild captured in the first place). <Happens. Am out in Hawaii currently... have collected a few tens of thousands of this Zebrasoma over the years... and DO advise fellow collectors to leave off with any more than palm-sized specimens... As you state, they don't ship or adapt well...> Thanks again, and have a great day! <And you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Sick Fish, Cycle, Improper Quarantine 10/23/07 Hello, <Hi> I am hoping you can help me out with my question. I purchased a 150 gallon tank 4 weeks ago and I am running 3 canister filters and a protein skimmer. I have 250 pounds of live rock and 3 inches of sand. <Ok> Here's my problem. During the first 2 week I added 3 yellow tangs, 1 black ridged eel, 3 starfish, and 2 urchins. For 2 week tank and fish showed no problems, bio-filter cycle completed and just recently I decided to add more fish. <No quarantine, did not allow tank to cycle, and added too much too fast.> I bought 1 black and white butterfly, 1 green bird wrasse, 1 swallowtail angel, 1 coral beauty angel, 1 purple tang, and 1 Orange tail butterfly. I noticed once I added the fish into the tank they instantly started rubbing against the rocks, especially the wrasse and Orange tail. <Way too much even if the tank was well established, need to slow down here, review your procedures, get a QT tank going and do some reading before adding any more livestock.> Since then, the Orange tail and swallowtail angel have died. The other fish are active and eating well, but they are still rubbing against the rocks and looks like they may be breathing rapidly. Could this be stress or a parasite? <Both, possible parasites, water quality issues, too much livestock, many potential things happening here.> What should I do now? Your help would be appreciated. I am new to this hobby! Justin <First thing is to slow way down, you have too much in the tank, possible infection agents at work, and a long term incompatible mix. Best to start reading here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm .> <Chris>

Sick Tang and Allardi Clown... SW dis. 10/1/07 Good morning, <And to you> First off, thank you for this wonderful resource! I have found so much valuable information here. <Welcome> I have a question regarding my sick tang (A. japonicus), a sick Allardi Clown and treatment options. I have looked thorough the site and not found exactly what I am looking for- but then I am feeling a bit panicked at the moment. Background: 60 g. salt, between 45-50 lbs LR, emperor bio wheel (don't remember the exact size but uses 2 size E filter cartridges), Aqua-C Remora protein skimmer, maxi jet 1200 power head, temp 78, NO3- about 5 and NO2- 0. I introduced my tang about 2 weeks ago after a month in QT. He seemed fine, everything was great in fact. Then a week ago he seemed to have ich. I pulled him out, gave a FW dip and placed in QT. I did not at the time remove the other fish as I couldn't catch them and no one else showed signs. <Mmm... one route, path...> The signs of ich went away in the tang and he was doing great in QT except for some "crud" on his pec. fins- it looked not so much like ich (grains of salt) but more clumpy but flat against the fins. <The catch-all "Lymphocystis" comes to mind> The LFS told me that it was likely a bacterial infection and told me to treat it with MelaFix. <... dismal> I did and now his skin is patchy with opaque blotches <Poisoned... "tea-stained"...> , he is breathing hard, his gills seem yellowish green and he is just floating against the side of the tank. This all happened over night and this morning. I did about a 30% water change in the QT and have the chemical filtration in to try to remove the MelaFix. I am terrified that he will not make it- he seems that bad and listless. <"... and another one down..."> Clown fish is now also in QT he seems to have something more along the lines of Oodinium or gill parasites- he has cloudy eyes, and some stringy pussy looking stuff on him as well as some dark splotches on his white stripes. He is not breathing rapidly or holding his mouth open- though tang is. I was going to treat with copper but wanted to ask you what you thought the best plan of attach is as both fish are in the same QT. <I would NOT copper the clown...> Also, I think that I will have to remove the rest of my fish from the main tank <Will> and let it go fallow- they include 5 Chromis and 3 PJ cardinals. Then there is a sand sifting star, a cleaner shrimp and a coral banded (who actually don't bother each other). Thank you very much for your help. I am sorry if you have answered this all a thousand times before- I'm in a panic! <Best to be concerned... to the point of focus, research... then action. I would treat all with a quinine here. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm Bob Fenner>

Velvet Formalin 9/27/07 Hi Crew! I was wondering something about velvet treatment I was hoping you could tell me if I'm going in the right direction? I have a 4 inch passer angel I have in a 50 gallon tank. <Needs much more room...> Yes I know he will out grow so this is a temporary home till my 220 is set up. He came down with velvet which I'm not sure why? <... imported with or extant in the system, another fish...> The trigger I have in there <... trouble... territorial... stress... a component of disease...> had no signs and he was in QT for 3 weeks but he has the dust. I'm treating him now with formalin 3 dips and a freshwater dip everyday and putting him in a new batch of water from my 120 gallon tank that has been going for 6 months now with no sickness. He's responding well and is looking good and eating. How many days should I dip? <... see WWM re formalin, dips, Amyloodinium...> He looks good now and its tempting to stop but I'm not sure how long to keep doing it? Now my main question is the tank? I read that if I take all fish out and leave vacant for a month that will knock out the velvet? Can I speed this up by treating the tank with formalin per the directions with no fish in it and then do a few massive water changes? They tell me to treat the tank everyday till fish is cured? <... how will you assess this?> Well I'm doing it in QT and with dips because I have had more success with the formalin dips then using it as an ongoing treatment. Basically just want to know when I should put him back in the tank? I do have the trigger out also right now. I also did put some ruby reef safe rally <... worthless> in the tank this morning hoping to help knock it out before I put him back in. Thanks for any input past and present. <Read... see WWM re formalin, dips, Amyloodinium... Bob Fenner>

Sick fish... no QT... or reading... 9/9/07 I have a twenty-nine gallon Bio-cube with live rock. It has been up and running for six months. We slowly added a few corals, <Mmm, what types, species?> a couple crabs <Same question> and a few snails. Our first fish residents were two Clownfish and one Red Firefish. <This last is a social animal> They all seemed to be doing well, the corals were (and still are) growing, the water chemistry checked out great. Our biggest concern was some red stringy stuff (algae?) <Likely... BGA> growing on the sand which still seems to be spreading. We were told to feed less brine shrimp <Not of much nutritional value> and cut down on the amount of light in the tank to solve this 'red' problem. Just a week or so ago, we added a Six Line Wrasse and a Yellow Clown Goby. Within two days the Wrasse was less active and had white cloudy 'stuff' on his body. <Oooops!> We attempted to catch him to give a fresh water dip but never succeeded. <No use here> He died four days after introducing him into the tank. Within two more days the Yellow Clown Goby had white dots on his body. He died seven days after introducing him into the tank. This morning, six days after the Goby's death, we see white dots on our Red Firefish. My kids are heart broken. What do we do? So far the Clowns look fine.... Thanks for your help. Kati <... Read... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm and the linked files above. You've introduced a parasite... which now resides in your system... Bob Fenner>

Disease Question, SW... 8/28/07 Hi all, I've got a few questions for you. Please impart your divine knowledge of "all things aquatic" on me. <LOL> I've had several aquariums over the years, and now I'm on my 1st salt water tank. I'm starting to learn that the longer I stick with this hobby, the less I know. <join the club ;-)> I've got a 29 gallon Bio-Cube. The occupants are; 2 Ocellaris Clowns, a Watchman Goby, and a Royal Gramma. In the "Invertebrate Department" I've got 1 blue-legged Crab, 2 red-legged crabs, and a small red starfish that does... well, whatever it is that small red starfish do. The SG is 1.024, and gets a couple of drops of Kent Liquid Reactor at least every other day, and I've recently bumped the temperature up to 84 to help do away with the Ich. <Temp. won't likely make much a difference with ich. But 84F is a good temp in any case.> When tested, the results all come back as being "ideal" conditions. <I do appreciate you putting the 'ideal' in quotes.> Live sand on the floor, and 29 lbs of live rock floating around on the bottom. <Hmm'¦ floating live rock. Interesting'¦ ;-)> Recently, I purchased a Royal Gramma from a friend. He said that 2 weeks prior, it had a case of Ich that he had "cured." (Dumb move on my behalf.) The Ich came back. I gave it a fresh water dip, and placed it in a QT (more like a large bowl) until morning. When I woke up, the fish had gone to where all the good fish go... <Oy, let me tell you a little secret'¦ freshwater dips are pretty much useless. A dip in fresh water isn't going to do anything but stress out the dipped.> Being impatient, I went and bought another Royal Gramma. Now, this one looks like the rim of a Margarita glass too! <Rim of a Margarita glass? LOL> I now have a 10 gallon QT set up-n'-running, and prior to putting my fish in, I waited a couple of days to see if the Ich would manifest itself on any of the other fish (it didn't).? As a precautionary measure, I placed the 2 Clowns, and the newly infected Royal Gramma in the QT, but when I asked the folks at the fish store (a good one. NOT one of the chains) if I should place all the fish in the QT, they said to leave the Watchman Goby in the main tank because they rarely come down with Ich. Can't they be carriers of it without it showing symptoms? <The ich cysts can be carried on any wet object. Ich has a somewhat complex life cycle that only partly involves the fish. The larvae/immature parasites hatch from cysts and immediately go looking for a fish. They need to attack a fish before they can mature. If they don't find a fish, they die. This is why you need to remove all the fish from the tank. Please see here for more details: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm> Now the 2 Ocellaris Clowns and the Royal are in the QT. I'm using Sea Cure (copper treatment), and changing 1 gallon of water a day. The SG is around 1.021, and the fish seem to be a little "put-off" or lethargic in their new surroundings. Last night, one of the Clowns was laying on his side, but not dead. The other came over, nudged him (or her), and she sat right up. <Do you have any PVC pipe pieces or ceramic pots in the QT? If not, I'd get some. The fish need some place to hide/sleep. Also, 1.021 is still not low enough to kill adult ich. You need to slowly lower the salinity to <1.010 over the course of a week or two. This will stress out your fish so you need to make sure everything else is as 'perfect' for them as can be. Do lots of water changes and make sure the tank is clean, etc. Again, see the above URL.> Recently, I added 3 Clown Gobies, and all passed away. Two of them (within 3 days) came down with Dropsy (at least that's what I was told.) They had ragged patches of scales, but also had lil' white lesions on them. As disgusting as it sounds, it looked like there was a white worm or some other intrusive beast trying to protrude from under their skin. Nonetheless, they were pulled immediately, and the 3rd committed suicide by jumping into the filter. Think my tank has problems? <It's hard to say if it's your tank or if the fish you're getting aren't already sick. If the fish are dying within just a few days from things like parasites and dropsy, I suspect they were already sick when you got them. For the future, observe fish for a few weeks (or at least a few days) in the store before you buy them.> Now that I've bored you with all that's going on, here come the questions; How long do I have to treat the QT with Copper before the Ich goes away? <See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm Copper won't kill the ich parasites that are already on your fish. But you might want to use it in your QT tank anyway to kill any immature ich.> Do invertebrates carry Ich? If so, how do you cure them of it? <They can carry the cysts.> Do I need more than just Copper in my QT? <To kill the adult ich parasites, you should do a proper hyposalinity treatment.> Is it true that Watchmen Gobies are more resilient to Ich than other fish? <Some fish are more/less resistant to ich than others. I'm not sure anyone could tell you which fish is the most resistant.> How come the Royal Gramma was the only one to catch Ich? The Clowns NEVER showed a single spot on them, and the Watchman is still extremely healthy (and in the main tank.) <Fish, when healthy, can often resist an ich infection'¦ and some fish are more resistant than others.> The folks at the fish store said that if I keep the main tank emptied of the fish (except the crabs and Watchman), that the Ich will die on it's on in 8 weeks. Any truth to this? <Mostly, yes. But you should take the goby out and vacuum the bottom. You can't treat the main tank with copper since even a tiny bit of copper kills inverts. So your only hope for the main tank will be to leave it without fish for several weeks and hope that all the cysts hatch out. Once they hatch and don't find any fish, they will die.> Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy story. I just don't want to lose some aquatic friends. E-mail me with anything else I may need to do, or any constructive criticism you may have on what I've done. <No problem. Generally, you should probably be more careful about the fish you put in your tank. Try to make sure you don't get sick fish to start with and always quarantine fish before you put them in your main tank. > Thanks much, Paul <De nada, Sara M.>

Marine Ich, Maybe 813/07 Good Morning Bob & Co, <Good morning.> I have been cycling a 60gal/skimmer/100lb live rock tank for a month now and have a damsel in there. Its a month now and this morning I notice a white spot on the damsel's tail. Looks like the beginning of an Ich. <Uh oh> I added the 100 lbs of live rock a week ago from a guy who had broken down his reef tank and he had it sitting in his garage for a couple of weeks in a large container with a powerhead. I thought it would be safe to add this directly to my tank. Maybe this was the source of my trouble. <Could be, if it was kept wet it could have been harboring the parasite.> Anyway, my question is the following. I have a quarantine tank. After moving the damsel to QT and observing it (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm), and if I leave the main tank without any fish or host for a month or so will it be safe to add fishes again? <4 to 6 weeks needed here.> Or am I looking at tearing the tank down before even I got started!! <Unnecessary> I learning the price of not QTing all things wet, and adding things directly early on :( <Yep> As always many thanks for all your help, Gans <Chris>
Re: Marine Ich, Maybe 8/13/07
Gentlemen, <Where?> Just an update. I moved the damsel to the QT tank and I see that white the spot in the tail has disappeared! Not sure what to make of it?? Ill keep in there for a couple of weeks just to be sure. Thanks again <Keep an eye on it, it could have just cycled off, or it could have just been sand or other debris. But better to be safe than sorry here.> <Chris>

Tank Emergency: Unknown Cause... SW ... not reading 5/20/07 Hey guys I'm in a tough situation. My tank came down a heavy case of ich and the lionfish, <Surprised this hasn't eaten your clowns... yet> 4 clowns, <In how large a system?> and 2 tangs all picked it up. My blue damsel seems fine, but he seems to be invincible. <Might have a bit of acquired immunity working here> I thought the ich would pass, and I would let the tank fallow once I had obtained and set up a quarantine tank. <"Time is of the essence" of most everything!> Today one of my tangs died (VERY sad) and my largest clown fish looks like he is soon to follow. The water is all 0's except about 10 ppm nitrate. The fish are laboring for breath, which I didn't think was an ich symptom. <This and...> There is decay on the tips of their fins and visible ich on the body, awful looking scales and cloudy eyes. <... What have you been doing to treat this?> My large clown is up near the surface as if trying to take a breath. The tank should be fully oxygenated, it is 120 g with a 55 sump and 1200 gph pump. I have a protein skimmer running. I have many inverts, and a couple anemones <Plural? Trouble> that seem perfectly fine. <...> Just the fish are suffering. What should I do? <Read> One more fact: I got curious that there may be some kind of contaminant or pollutant so I started digging around in the sump. I found a link of chain that had fallen in, I suppose while installing a hanging light under there. I have heard of metal poisoning, but is this a possibility with so little contaminant in such a large tank? <Is a contributing cause...> I'm clean out of ideas. I will establish the hospital tank ASAP, <What have you been waiting for may I inquire?> but I'm not sure how to get it cycled quickly enough, <... read> so I suppose I will stick to switching out the water daily in it to keep the ammonia and nitrite down? What do you think? <That you should read> Should I medicate with the fish in such a sick/stressed condition? Do you think this is the effect of Cryptocaryon alone, or do you think there could be something else at work? Thanks so much for your help! Craig <Please, help your livestock and yourself: Start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm scroll down to the bright blue tray... Bob Fenner>

follow-up: I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) 2/23/07, SW dis. 5/11/07 Hi Graham and Bob, Thought I would finally drop you a line and let you know what happened with my fishies. <Good to hear back.> I've been very busy so please excuse the very long reply and I hope your move went well Graham. <It did, and the subsequent marriage and announcement of my baby-boy due in October went equally swell! (BTW, this is the first I've mentioned this even to the other crewers. Let's see who picks it up!> <<I can count to nine... if I take my shoes off! RMF>> So it seemed at first that life guard was working however, a couple days after I last wrote you the white growths looked like they were growing again. <Discouraging, but medications can take a little time to show their benefits. Lifeguard is touted for its safety, so it would make sense that it is also a little less potent than alternatives.> I went and bought a little bio-wheel filter and did another water change as the water was looking quite funky. <If this is the QT we are talking about, then I'm not surprised to hear about funky water if you weren't performing frequent (daily or every other day) water changes.> I noticed that the clown with the lip growth seemed very weak always by himself hiding and labored breathing. The other clowns seemed depressed as well as they were not happily greeting me as much as they used to. <Reaction to poor water conditions?> The day after the filter addition they did perk up a bit but I noticed that the one with the lip growth refused to eat. On closer inspection I noticed the lip growth was actually beginning to grow into his mouth! So he wasn't able to eat! <Uh-oh.> My bf and I scooped him out and attempted the scraping it off with some small tweezers. I think it stressed him out too much and the fact that he was already so weak from not eating for half the week, so that did kill him :( <Sorry for your loss.> The other clown who had the one on his pectoral fin that looked like it had popped before had always hung out with the one with the lip growth. It's really weird perhaps I'm humanizing them too much <Is what we tend to do, not wrong.> but the day after the one with the lip growth died he seemed to be depressed, too, even though physically it looked like he was getting better and he was eating. However, just 2 days after the one with the lip growth died I woke up one morning and he had passed as well. <Sheesh, double whammy. Water conditions were excellent in the QT?> OH and while all this was going on I had captured the angel fish and she was in there as well and her eye healed up almost immediately. <Hmm, something is working at least...> So I only had the coral beauty and two clowns left and a golden headed sleeper goby I had purchased and was QT'd in there. At this point I just got fed up because all the other fish were fine except the clowns they still had growths on them. So I did a drip acclimation and added them all back to the tank. I figured if the clowns were going to die anyhow they may has well be happy. I then did what you shouldn't do, I just fed them and basically just ignored them.... and miraculously they were just fine! <Makes me wonder if the QT was just not up to par?> My bf asked about a week after I had added them back to the main tank what I had done to the clowns bc they were fine and growth free I honestly had not even noticed... I know horrible, but I looked and no growths and they have been great and healthy since still no growths and the coral beauty is doing wonderful as well. <Excellent!> The golden headed sleeper goby was really really thriving..... until I squished him :'( <Aww...> He was accepting flake food and the frozen homemade food I made and was just sifting my sand like crazy. I think I kept him going for gosh almost 3 months then I purchased a uv sterilizer from PetCo online... bad mistake. It came in the mail and I had no idea how huge and bulky it was! So when I was shifting a rock that he likes to hide under I thought he would jet outta there but ..... he didn't and after the water and sand settled.... I never saw him again after that so I can only guess I must've squished him! :( <Sounds like...> Which brings me to my last question. I really loved that fish he was very cute and funny, I've read that they can get lonely and do well in a mated pair. How can you ensure you are buying a male and female? Or is there a way to just buy a mated pair??? <I actually don't know that one off the top of my head. I will look into that and get back to you. If you don't get a reply from me in a week, and your own research doesn't turn anything up, then drop a line and ask that question exclusively.> OH and one more I'm sorry, I later added a cleaner shrimp he was also very awesome. <Was this before or after the clowns cleaned up? (Just wondering if that may have been a causal factor in their recovery)> I had kept him successfully for about a month and half and he was even molting and growing then one day he just wasn't there. Would a yellow canary wrasse do him in? <Can. Hard to say. A molting shrimp is vulnerable to attack.> I added them both at the same time and they seemed fine and the wrasse was about 3" he seemed terrified of the cleaner shrimp bc all the other fish would go up to him to get cleaned and he'd jump on and ride them around while he cleaned it was quite hilarious but only the yellow wrasse would flip out if he got near the cleaner shrimp he would do just about anything possible to keep away from the cleaner shrimp. However, I heard they can and will eat crustaceans, so I was wondering if maybe he picked up his courage against the cleaner shrimp and ate him? <Sorry, I can't be of much help there. They are capable of eating your shrimp, though it's not common.> I did do a water check at the time and it was all within normal range sorry too lazy to run down and get my book to get the readings for that fateful day :( Sorry again for the very very long winded response and thanks again for the assistance! Shawn <You're welcome, and I will look into the goby question for you. -GrahamT>

Re: Quarantine, gen. 4/18/07 Thanks for all your help. <Pleasure> I agree with the whole quarantine thing. Two of the three fish I got have already died. <Sorry to hear this> The first to die didn't have any noticeable lesions or anything (just a little black in color instead of green, but I noticed that green chromis do that when stressed) <Correct, as with most fish> but on the second, I noticed that the mouth was pursed and the gills were red. After a little research, I decided they had marine velvet!! <Likely symptoms, but other avenues to be explored with more information> I dipped the last one in freshwater and am treating the QT with copper. All the fish were dipped in freshwater with NMB before being place in the QT. <Did you discard of the, presumably ph adjusted, freshwater after each dip?> Within minutes the water was noticeably less cloudy (I assumed it was just a bacterial bloom, maybe it was) <How long had this bloom been going on for, when did it start -- prior to or after adding the fish? More information about this may help> I had tried to feed the fish several times and they wouldn't eat, also the first to die isolated himself in the corner (a sure sign of something wrong now that I look back on it!). <Did you remove this uneaten food, as you probably know will add nutrients to the water> I tested my water several times and both ammonia and nitrites were zero. So I was really confused as to why they died. When the second one isolated himself, I had a feeling he was going to die, too. I got the fish Saturday and already 2 are dead. I just hope this last one pulls through! I feel so bad, I am going to have a single green reef chromis in my tank, the plan was to have a school. Also, the water smelt horrible, almost like formaldehyde, is that something you normally see with marine velvet? <Will more likely be the treatment used, which brand/type of copper did you use and what dosage?> I have been doing 20% daily since I really don't know what is going on and the water is starting to smell more like the sea. I was at my wits end today an almost threw the last fish into my main tank, good thing I didn't! <Indeed, it can be very frustrating, but remember that these fish are in your care, so to through the towel in is quite cowardice and wont get you anywhere. A little more information and a photo would help us a bit more and hopefully we can fully solve this for your fish. Bob may have a different interpretation Keep going, the least you can come out with is the experience and the improved knowledge for if this presents itself again. Olly>

Help with dogface puffer, 4/14/07 Hi, I am having a little problem with my tank. it <It> has been up and running for 6 years now, and my dogface puffer has been with me from day 1!! recently, I made a hasty purchase at a local PetCo <Proper nouns are capitalized...> store which just opened up. They had a large number of saltwater fish and I purchased a butterfly (Chaetodon punctatofasciatus). I put him into my tank without quarantining him (I know that was foolish) <You're learning...> and on the second day of him in my tank he started to develop what looked like ich, but much smaller white dots. It was only on his fins not on the body. he was eating great for about 1 week then he stopped eating and died. My dogface started to develop these dots now on his fins only too, he is eating great. I tried a fresh water dip for about 40 seconds ( it did not look like he could stand more, he started to freak out). Now he has more of these white dots on his fins only and they are starting on his eyes too. I do not want to lose him, please help!! Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, JPK <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fishindex3.htm Scroll down to the orange/red bar... On puffers... Tetraodont Disease... and soon. Bob Fenner> Re: Help with possible disease -- 4/9/07 Good Morning Bob, <Brad> Regarding dips (not the type who regularly write, mind you), I hope you are enjoying your time in Hawaii! <Ah, yes, thank you> I too often <Can this be so!?> rely on www.WetWebMedia.com for expert advice and assistance. Having just re-read the well presented information in "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", Part 1, Chapter 9, on diseases, I feel compelled to remind readers how enlightening and worthwhile your book really is! Thanks for this gem. Brad in Basalt <Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

News Article Mentioning Sea Dwelling Creatures 4/1/07 ( http://www.bendweekly.com/Science/4161.html) <Ah, great to see such interest, cooperation twixt the trade and government... Sea Grant, OSU... re incidental mortalities... A field long ignored... and very important for sure. I do hope some prophylactic, useful, disseminated report/s issue from this work. Cheers, Bob Fenner who thirty some years ago tried to get the industry to adopt simple pH-adjusted FW dip/bath protocols...>

Disease question 3/19/07 Hi, I was unable to register and post a new topic in the 911 forum... <Write Lorenzo Gonzalez re, as posted on WWF... this is his "baby"> Bicolor angel fish purchased 4 wks ago from LFS with Royal Gramma Basslet and Dartfish. Put all 3 in 10 gal QT with bare bottom and PVC for cover. The first 2 weeks everything great. The third week RGB starts swimming sideways, breathing heavily and bicolor angel (BA) has a white coating over one eye and ragged fins. RGB has no external symptoms (no spots, ragged fins, etc). Incidentally, I did a 20% (2 gal) water the day before this went down. Tried Furanace, RGB died two days later. <Water quality?> 3 treatments of Furanace yielded no results with BA, so I tried penicillin. Fins start looking better, the white coating over one eye did not look like cloud eye pics I have seen, but more like a human pimple--with a white head in the center. Feces is long and stringy after feeding. 3 treatments of penicillin have helped reduce the ragged fins and the pimple somewhat, but not completely. Should I try freshwater dip or some other treatment? <Should have been done first, in transit to quarantine...> I tried to take a pic of the fish, but it wouldn't cooperate for 30 min so I gave up. The eye didn't look like anything I could find and the symptoms didn't quite fit any disease chart: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/diseases.html Thanks for your time, rob <Time to read... and supply similar categories of information as provided by others... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm Tests, maintenance routine, set-up, feeding... No hypochondria please. Bob Fenner>

Re: Is My Ich Problem Solved 3/19/07 Last question for a while...I hope. Do I need to take out my Green Brittle Star, 3 Cleaner Shrimp or 5 Peppermint Shrimp for the tank to be "fallow." <No... Please read...> Thanks again. I'm looking forward to getting back to you with the good news once I knock this out. Carl <Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm BobF>

Marine Ich appears after 5 months... it never left. Iatrogenic problems with a mis-stocked SW system, 'tude. 3/14/07 I have had a very "happy" FOWLR tank for about the last five months. 75 Gal. 90 # Live rock, 1.023 SG, Temp 76.5, PH 8.4, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate. 20 gal. water change every 2 weeks. 1-2" Clown Trigger, 1-2" Picasso Trigger, 2-1" Percula Clown, 1-2-1/2" Dwarf Lion, 1-3" Foxface, 1-2" Flame Angel, 1-1" Chromis, 1-3" Heniochus (sp) 1 Sand Sifting Star 3 Hermit crabs, all get along extremely well. <For now... this is an incompatible (high stress, getting higher) mix... the triggers will chew the Lion, the invert.s soon... ultimately... one fish will be left here...> A little overloaded I am sure, but anyhow, <... but anyhow?> all of a sudden the two triggers, and Heniochus (sp) are showing signs of Itch, along with what seems to be a "slightly less case" on the Flame Angel and Fox, no signs on the Clown fish, Chromes or Dwarf Lion. <.....> Why all of a sudden would this appear after five months? All fish are quarantined for 8 weeks before introduction into the main tank. <.... in a word, stress> What would my best course of treatment be? I would like to try hyper-salinity and raising the temperature. I would really like to shy away from chemicals due to the biological filter. The quarantine tank that I have is only 10 gallons and will not hold all fish adequately. Any suggestions other then the hyper-salinity and temperature rise in the tank. Would a Formalin treatment in the main tank affect the biological filter? Please advise. <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm and the linked files above where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

Algae Blenny, Unilateral Color Changes Limited to the Head 3/5/07 Mich, Chris <Hi Ron, Mich with you today.> I have been searching your website looking for info about why my Blenny's head is half black, right down the middle, could not find anything. <I have never seen such a dramatic difference. It is quite startling.> <<Such marked apparent melanization is from "nervous damage" likely... either genetic/developmental or a trauma... RMF>> He is an Algae Blenny (Lawnmower Blenny). I have noticed that he is somewhat a chameleon, he does change color to suit his environment, <As is normal.> but Saturday morning I awoke to a drastic color change. The entire right half of his head from the top down to his gills was black, the other half of his head was the same color as the rest of his body. <Strange indeed.> As you can imagine I was worried and began researching for what this might be and found nothing. <I understand.> about 6 hours later the black was back to the normal color of his body (translucent gray with green tint). <OK.> He does change his tint from time to time, depending on the background of where he spends majority his time, but this was a drastic change in one 24 hour period. I attached pics just incase. <It is great that you captured this on film. The picture display the change quite well. I don't think there is cause for concern, but an interesting phenomenon nonetheless. I don't know what else to tell you. RMF any comment?> Ron <Thanks for sending these most curious pictures. -Mich> <<Not deleterious. RMF>>

What a Freah <Fresh> Water Dip? 2/23/07 <Greetings!> What is a freash water dip? Is it when you put a fish in freash water? <It is a pH adjusted fresh water bath used to assist in the treatment and prevention of parasitic disease seen in marine fish. Please read more here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm Hope that helps, Mich>

Pupfish problem 2/17... actually... What species of fish is this? 2/18/07 Hi Bob, I was doing some research on the internet on refugiums, trying to understand the plumbing portion when I noticed some movement from my pupfish tank. One of my males was swimming erratically. By the time I found my flashlight and got back he was laying on his side. It was the same one three days ago who I saw swimming erratically. I caught him easily with a net (not a good sign) and placed him in a small breeder tank within the main tank. I observed him for a few days. He ate well. Did not swim erratically any more and appeared to be okay. So I put him back in the tank this morning. I observed him during feeding and throughout the day and being hard to pick out, all the males appeared to be acting normally. The male that died tonight had a faint pinkish red area on the top left side of his head, just above his left eye and I had noticed it the other day as well when I placed him in the breeder tank. The appearance was as if there was blood under the skin. Secondly, the female pupfish I sent a picture with the tumor on her cheek, now has a second one on her tail. The tumor on her cheek has grown a bit more. She is still active and eating. Thirdly, the three month old pupfish I still have in a breeder tank within the main tank was born with only one eye, his left eye is just a silver spot that moves. But other than that he appears to be okay. A few months ago after I rebuilt a portion of my desk to brace with 2x3's I moved the pupfish to a quarantine tank while moving the main tank to its new location. I took the opportunity to treat the fish for 5 days with Instant Ocean Lifeguard. <Thought this was a Jungle product... many such being changed by co.s owning multiple businesses> The female pupfish (the one that now has a tumors) at that time had a small reddish spot on her lip and one of the males had a reddish bruise spot near his fin. I thought she may have been stung by one of the two Aiptasia I found while moving the rock from the tank. <?! These are Cyprinodontids? Being kept in a totally marine system? We are confused...> The male I thought was probably bruised in a tussle with another male but nothing serious. I had seen bruise spots a couple times on the males before, and it always went away. They both recovered nicely at the time. I took these fish from deplorable water conditions that they had been in for several months... <The real, root problem here, little doubt> a tank that was never cleaned of food or debris, the water never changed, only topped off, tinged brown and reeked of cigarette smoke, the lights were rarely turned on. Even though I've been taking good care of them, do you think that all the time they spent in those poor conditions it may have damaged them internally to only show up as various illnesses in the future that may not be treatable? The water parameters are good: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates, salinity 1/022. One of my Cerith snails laid eggs all over the glass, snails & hermits all appear well. Thanks, Debbie <Deb... what species is this? Likely nothing more than providing optimized, stable conditions... perhaps food supplementation... will improve health here. Bob Fenner>

I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) Lymph? 2/14/07 I'm sorry I've searched and searched for two days now and I have not found an article on this. <Relax. Until the internet works like the computer on NCC-1701d then we'll have to learn to search with text more efficiently. The info *IS* out there, but you have to sometimes trick the WWW to couch it up.> I have a 55 gal salt water tank with a DSB of about 4' and almost 100lbs of live rock. It has two softs corals in there that are thriving and have been for a little over a year now (umbrella leather and a green star polyp that is spreading like crazy), I recently added 3 green Chromis and 2 sand sifting stars about 3 wks ago they're fine and then about a week and half ago a coral beauty, 4 baby ocellaris clownfish, 2 Hawaiian feather dusters, and 3 reef hermit crabs, and a flame scallop. <This is a lot of livestock to add all at once! Slow down, and implement a QT here. I have a feeling this is where this is going, right?> All the fish and inverts have been doing really well, very active and eating fine. About 3 days ago I noticed one of the baby ocellaris has a big white pimple looking thing right under his lip.... Obviously fish shouldn't be getting cold sores, j/k no but I know it's not ich it's much too large and it protrudes from his face! He is very active still and eats very heartily and the spot/wart/pimple is circular and uniform not cauliflower looking or cottonish looking at all. Then I noticed a small spot on his side yesterday and then today now he looks kind of ragged which is why I'm worried now the edges of all his fins look a little frayed. He is still eating and active but I also noticed the other baby ocellaris seem to be picking on him a little today. Should I get the qt set up and throw him in and treat him I don't even know what it is I've been looking all over the internet and this site as well and i just don't know if I'm overlooking it since I'm so inexperienced. <I think you may be missing some basic precepts of marine fish-keeping here. 1) The quarantine tank - INVALUABLE 2) Proper research before selection of livestock 3) Gradual placement of animals except when addition of multiples is to avoid aggression/territoriality These are important practices, but they are all shadowed by the very basic need for all aquarists to READ as much as possible. Now that you've been properly chastised, I will try to answer your question, or rather, point you to the information I think you may be in need of here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lymphfaqs.htm . I hesitate to make a diagnosis sight-unseen, so I will just let you read through this and leave with one final thought. Nutrition (or lack thereof) and stress play a major role in the health of our captive species. Without the nutrition in the form of varied and diverse diet (supplemented with vitamins and other essentials...) and a the proper stress-free environment without a pecking-order to constantly harry them, our fish will always suffer. Please send back a reply with a picture, if you can. -GrahamT> Thank you for any help, Shawn
Re: I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) pt.2 2/14/07 Lymph f' prev. 02/17/07
Hi Graham, Thanks for the response. Yes I know the qt is invaluable however, I recently moved hence the reason it is buried in a box somewhere where I cannot reach it and my bf is being lazy as usual so it probably will not see the light of day for at least another month. I was told at several LFS that the Kordon rid ich was coral safe and could be used when adding new livestock. <The point is moot, IMO. You should never use any medications in your main tank. Rid-ich is best used as a dip/or treatment in a QT. A useful guide can be found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm ...and as BobF points out there, copper is a safer (relatively anyway) to use.> So I figured that would help with any parasites or ich, however, yes I know you should never use that stuff around corals even if it says you can and I will have to put in a charcoal filter to remove it from the system. <Oh, no. Don't use this in your main system. Lazy bf or no, you need to set up that system and forget about using any Malachite green in your display. You are aware of the nitrifying-bacteria-killing properties of M.G., right?> I had also read on couple other sites that the fish should be introduced at the same time to avoid any territorial aggression. <Yes, in cases where you are worried about aggression, can be the only way to successfully introduce certain tankmates.> As for the addition of all the inverts at the same time no excuse for that at all. Anyhow I did see that link prior to writing and it doesn't look like that at all and he is not presenting any of the other symptoms those other fish are presenting with that lymphocytes. The LFS I purch him from said it's not contagious to the other stores and if I wanted I could take him out of the water and just pluck it off! <Could, is what would happen in the wild, what with cleaner wrasses, shrimps, etc.> I think that sounds a little rash as I don't want to stress him out and kill him plus if I pluck it off that doesn't seem like a permanent fix for the problem. It's not cauliflower looking at all it's circular and round it looks like a pimple or a wart plus the ragged edges of his fins worries me. <Sounds like a cyst to me, or a infection from fighting? I would start treatment with a FW dip and subsequent isolation in the QT.> He is still very very active hence the reason there is no pic attached to this reply. <Cysts are sometimes completely unheeded by the host...> If you have any tips on getting a pic of fish in the aquarium I could use it bc he will not sit still for a second and I have a digital camera that is not good in action shots. <Most digi-cams can take shots at various shutter-speeds, but some only switch between them when prompted. Either way, I would try holding food to entice it, and have a helper snap a few shots.> OH as for diet I am feeding him a reef flake, it's a bulk one from the LFS and in the AM some dried Hikari brine shrimp and PM some Hikari bio pure frozen Mysis shrimp with supplements in it. <Would consider a more varied diet than this. I know, it's a lot of food to have at once, and some will most likely spoil or get freezer burn etc., but their dietary needs are more diverse than we choose to acknowledge, sometimes.> I have a wet dry system and a protein skimmer. I have checked the ph, salinity etc... and everything is optimal according to my test kit. <Numbers are more important than adjectives here, but many problems *can* have little to do with the system quality.> All the other fish are doing great still and all the inverts are fine except one of the feather dusters hardly ever comes out, the other one is always out and doesn't even seem to mind if you shift him but the one that is fussy about being out darts in even if you just walk by the tank and you're only 4 ft away from it so I'm hoping that one is just oversensitive. I don't know if I'm overlooking any other information that could help. Sorry this was such a long winded response. <Understood. Dig out the QT, sit and stare at you buddy whilst contriving a plan to photo him/her. You might try plugging in any descriptive words on your malady you can think of into our Google search. Remember, active fishes are usually happy fishes. Usually. -GrahamT Shawn

Help with Parasites!!!!!!, Grammar 12/21/06 hello I have 120 gallon fish/reef setup and the fish have parasites close to there gills there is like a diagonal line that goes all the way across their body ] <Evidence of lateralis system neuromast degeneration (aka HLLE disease)... environmental most likely...> this is the livestock currently 1 Sailfin tang 1 Naso tang 1 blue tang 1 imperator angel Juv 1 coral beauty angel 2 fire gobies 1 scooter blenny 1 cleaner wrasse a ton of cone snails 2cleaner shrimp 1 finger leather 1 Sandsifter star 1 serpent star green button polyps and a bulb anemone with a maroon clown right now iam currently treating my tank with chem-Marin stop parasites <Worthless> I was just wondering if I take the fish out and treat them with copper meds are they likely to get sick again after I have treated them with the copper meds I need some help here to get rid of the parasites in my display tank thank you for the help if you can Kris Artz <Your help is to be found in using your spelling and grammar checkers... Normally I'd return such poor English back to the sender... But to save time, hopefully your livestock, will encourage you here/now to read re the Compatibility, Systems of all the organisms listed above (you have a poor mix...), review your system set-up and maintenance procedures (you offer nothing re water quality...), and consider what the root cause/s of your induced problems may be here... and solve them... The environment my friend... fix this and save your animals. Read. Bob Fenner>

Please help ich or bacterial infection Fish dying! Mis- over-stocking, Study and the high price of not-knowing 11/30/06 Recently attempted to introduce fish to a newly cycled 29 gallon tank, (.05ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10ppm nitrate, ph 8.2, salinity 1.023, temp 80). First introduced percula clown, angel, <... this is too small a volume for a Pomacanthid> anemone, <... not easily kept> and 2 snails. No qt tank, new to hobby. <You'll learn... are learning> Clown died within 24 hrs LFS gave another <...> and died within 18 hrs. Once this happened LFS stated some people not able to keep clowns, no longer going to LFS after comment. <I won't disagree> Angelfish arrived with Popeye and within days started losing color (large white blotches) on side of Popeye. After about two days angelfish getting worse and stays over the aeration bubbles on side of white blotches. Brooklynella was my gut instinct started my qt tank and freshwater dipped angel, using formalin (Ich Cure) <Toxic... biocide... killed your bio-filter no doubt> and antibiotic (K-mycin). Seemed to be doing better 2 days later getting worse. Contacted LFS (regretfully) for some relief suggested some antibiotics he has into main tank. Reading your FAQs this is no-no with inverts. <Yep> Now the yellow tang <? Not listed above... too small a volume...> has developed brown spot around 1/4 inch behind gill and is hanging over aeration like the angel is, moved him to qt. <Actually now a treatment tank. Different> Main tank is now fallow and will continue this for as long as you suggest. <Posted on WWM> Major concerns. -Is this Brooklynella, if not what <Can't tell from here... but not likely... could have been on/with the Clown... but all the symptoms mentioned are likely "environmental" etiologically> -How to keep newly setup qt (not cycled) levels in check while fish are present <Posted...> -Formalin instructions given from product are to add to water (2drops per gallon) how many to dip in 2gal <You'd do well to read on WWM re Formalin> -Are some antibiotics safe for bio systems and inverts/anemones for the main tank <Mmm, not really... the secondary, tertiary effects are too hard on them> -Main tank how to insure no disease/ich and anything else not present -Someone wishes to give me quite a few fish from their tank they are selling, around four, when is it safe to put in main tank ASAP, should I quarantine in another tank before, even though they have been established in this tank for years Thank you Desperate <Dear D... keep reading. You don't want more such disasters... Easily preventable/avoidable with a bit of learning, understanding. Bob Fenner>

Disease refractory to treatment 11/24/06 Bob, <Sam> I've had a 90 gallon fish only tank, with a 55 gallon refugium in series, which contained live rock, macroalgae, and lots of tiny creatures. It has been stable for 6 years. I purchased a flame angel in August, kept him in quarantine for a month, and then when he still looked perfect, released him into my tank. One by one the other fish developed what I took to be Marine Ich, developed respiratory distress and died. <No fun> I immediately took my refugium out of circulation, removed all rock and gravel from the main tank and treated with copper, which I maintained at a therapeutic level. This had no effect on the disease. I dropped the SG to 1.009 (measured with a refractometer), again to no effect. <Am not a fan of hyposalinity treatments (alone)> Finally, I had two moribund fish left...a Tang and a Clown. I treated them both with a Formaldehyde dip, every other day, starting with 1 minute and getting up to 45 minutes. This saved their lives. However, both (especially the Tang) has continued to have these clusters of 1 mm papules, scattered on both sides, but in this cluster on his right flank. They have been refractory to repeated copper, continued hypo-osmolality, and formaldehyde dips. Do you have any idea what they might be? <Some sort of reaction to the ongoing disease, treatments...> I tried Malachite Green/ Quinine in the tank without benefit. <Would try more specific protozoacides... like Metronidazole/Flagyl... less general biocides> I tried a freshwater dip (buffered R.O. water) and many of the lesions seemed to open, revealing very superficial white ulcers. However new lesions continue to form in the cluster. I'd appreciate any help you can give. I've attached three photos. thanks, Sam <Only time can/will tell, heal such... I'd be investing in an inexpensive microscope and a good/thorough reference work... my fave choice: Edward Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment". Bob Fenner>

Re: Disease refractory to treatment 11/24/06 Bob, <Sam> thanks for the response. <Welcome> I actually have a microscope, and did check Edward Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment" out of the library, but I think that anesthetizing the fish for a scraping might be beyond me. <No need to anesthetize... can be done with simply netting the fish up, running a slide at an angle across... in the direction head to tail of the body... in turn smearing this slime coat onto another slide> In retrospect, I should have done a scraping on one of the fish that I lost. -Sam
<Can still be done. BobF>

Re: Disease refractory to treatment 12/4/06 the nucleus was indistinct and seems to fill most of the cytoplasm. <Odd...> I did not see any nucleoli. The organism was oval with no clear differences on its two ends (not flattened or pointed, and no flagellae). Although I could not see them, their appeared to be a halo of cilia around the entire perimeter. The organisms seemed flattened as those on their sides looked tubular. How long does Brooklynella live off of a fish? <Variable... days to a couple of weeks> Since I have moved everything out of the main tank but these two fish, I would prefer to administer treatment there, to eradicate any Brooklynella in the tank/sump. Do you recommend against that? <Mmm... as in a bio-cide like Formalin or bleach? I do recommend this> Is setting up non-infested additional tanks necessary, or can re-infection be blocked with a prolonged bath (Metronidazole)? <No> What concentration of Metronidazole is best? <Posted on WWM...> thanks, Sam <Welcome. RMF>

Re: FW: Disease refractory to treatment 12/4/06 Is setting up non-infested additional tanks necessary, or can re-infection be blocked with a prolonged bath (Metronidazole)? <No> "no" to the necessity of the tanks or "no" to the effectiveness of Metronidazole? <The latter. Not efficacious. BobF>

New Tank of Death 11/21/06 Dear Crew, <Hi> I am an absolute beginner to this hobby and I started my 12 gallon tank three months ago with a few small clownfish added during the next couple days. <Very tough way to start, 12G is hard to keep stable and at most will support a single fish with lots of effort.> Then three weeks later I had a full scale white spot attack on all the fish which I suspected was ich. <Probably.> After the death of all fish, I thoroughly cleaned everything with fresh water including replacing the gravel with new ones. The following week, I started to put fish, in particular clownfish, back to the tank and then the death cycle began. <Not surprised. You did not cycle the tank.> Nowadays, fish in my tank will die in either one of the two ways. First is within 24 hours after bought from the local fish store. Second, which is a more frequent event, live happily for two weeks and then die in the third week. So far I have no fish that can survive this death cycle and my tank is empty every three weeks. <Environmental issue with possible pathogen thrown in on top.> I have checked my tank statistics and they all look fine. <Define "fine".> I change water every week and maintain a stable temperature. <Good.> When the fish die, they die with various symptoms including cloudy eyes and/or very tiny white spots. But sometimes, some die absolutely without any symptoms ¡V one minute is swimming happily, next minute is dead. <Yep, too much too fast too soon.> I sincerely hope that you guys can offer me some advice to solve my problem before I have to give this up completely as the experience so far has cost me great deal of frustration, despair, sadness (it is very sad to see them die one after the others), time and money. By the way, I have tried using Copper for white spots and fresh water dips too but they still die in the three weeks cycle. <Needs to be administered in a hospital/QT tank, not the main tank.> Best regards, ML Hong Kong <Time to go back to the beginning. Start here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nanoreefsysart.htm and the rest of WetWeb for more.> <Chris>

Disease Problems...Too Many Fish 9/18/06 Hi there WWM, I hope you can help me with my problem! I have a 72 Gal tank with the bio-ball system (I believe is the wet dry system), a skimmer plus an UV. My husband and I have had this tank and fishes for about 2 months now, and all the fishes were doing well. However, we added 3 combo rocks (Live rocks with different types of vegetations) about 2 weeks ago, and about a week ago, we discovered ich on our Yellow Tang and the Naso Tang. <Tank is/will be too small for keeping tangs and the wrasse.> Since we have both fishes and some reef, our LFS told us to use Kent Marine's RxP. <This isn't going to do much good for your problem. Best to have a quarantine tank to put the fish into for treatment, and treat with a copper based medication.> We noticed the 2 lionfish that we have is <are> losing their colors. Just this morning, one of the lionfish is turning white....... I also have Dragon Wrasse, and it's fins are all broken and appears to be injured and not able to move correctly. <Have you done any research on the wrasse? They do require a two to four inch fine sand bottom, as they like to burrow at night or when threatened. Larger grains of sand/coral can cause this damage. Both, the tangs and the wrasse are not beginner fish, especially the Naso and the Dragon Wrasse. Dragon Wrasses can grow up to one foot in the aquarium and are not a reef safe fish. As for the tangs, 8" and up in length can be attained.> The wrasse has put himself in between rocks so he can be held up. I monitored him closely all day, and it seems like he released a large white/clear bubble like object and moved out of the rocks after he released the object. He is now hiding half way in the sand with only the tips of his tail and his head out of the sand. his eyes were cloudy earlier, but it seems to be much better and restored back to shinny <shiny> black. I have no idea what is going on with my wrasse and my 2 lionfish, does this all have to do with the ich or the medication that I am using? Can someone from WWM help me? I really don't want to kill the fishes......... <Your issue is largely due to environmental conditions. Too many fish for the size tank you have. As for the fungus/bacterial infections, I'd use Melafix or a similar product. Until you find homes for some of these fish, things will only get worse. Do research fish before buying, know their needs, compatibility and tank size required for proper health.> P.S. I tested the water today: PH : 8.1 Ammonia : 0 Alkalinity : 3 mEq/L Nitrite : 0 Nitrate : 15 Thank you very much for your help and I hope to hear from you soon. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> cheers, Cathy
Re: Disease Problems...Too Many Fish 9/19/06
Dear James (Salty Dog), Thank you for responding to my e-mail. <You're welcome.> I stopped using RxP, and the lionfish's color are slowly coming back, and they do not swim like darts anymore. However, I still need a recommendation on how to treat lionfish for ich....... I can set up a hospital tank, but what should I use? Most of the methods that can use on other fishes does not work for lions, because they are too sensitive...... <Read here and linked filed above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i4/quarantine/Quarantine.htm And read FAQ's on lionfish treatment here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liondisfaqs.htm> As for the wrasse, we were told by our LFS that it is safe with reef. <Not true, when young, not so bad, but as they grow...> But I think he is poisoned by eating from the reef. <Very unlikely. I'm guessing more from a diet deficiency.> he is doing a little bit better today, and I managed to scoop him and put him in a hamster ball in our tank, until I can get the hospital tanks set up. <Not going to like this.> We do have 4 ~ 5 inches of live Fiji sand on the bottom of our tank, we did this just for the wrasse, and he has been sleeping under the sand every night ever since we got him. <Great!> Is there anything I can do for him if he is poisoned? <Again, very unlikely, and more from environmental conditions/diet than anything else.> Any method I can do to help him flush it out of it's system? <Ten percent water changes should be done weekly. Will improve water conditions. These water changes should be done weekly to begin with.> I already told my husband the 72 gal tank is too small, so he told me he will invest in a 150 gal tank at the end of the year, and we will make the 150 gal tank into a fish only tank. As for our current 72 gal tank, we will make this a reef tank, so I can enjoy to have the smaller fish and shrimps. <Good.> By the way, we were told by our LFS that Dragon Wrasse and Naso tang are hardy, so they picked these fishes for us. <They can be hardy, provided the proper conditions are met and your experience level increases. On a scale of 1-10, (10 being the most difficult) I'd say the wrasse would be a 5 and the tang an 8. I base my rating of 8 because the Naso is very susceptible to ich if high quality water conditions and diet are not met, along with a suitable sized tank.> To be honest, they were all very happy in the tank together and they never fight with each other. We would not have this problem if we didn't buy the combo rocks........ <Very unlikely this came from the rocks...pure coincidence.> I guess even invertebrates need to be quarantined for 3 weeks, just to make sure they do not carry any diseases! <Some folks do this. I never have, largely due to the fact that my LFS does not have fish in his live rock vats.> If you have any suggestions for the treatment for the lionfish and the wrasse, please kindly let me know. Thank you. <As above, and the wrasse can be treated the same as the lionfish.> Cheers, Cathy <Good luck. James (Salty Dog)>

New To Fish, No Research - 08/08/2006 I have a 30 Gallon tank and my husband and I knew nothing about fish. <Hello. Let me first apologize for the delay in reply.... Your email came to us in a state that very few of us can read; I apologize for my delay.> We let the tank cycle for three weeks with 5 pound of live rock. Then we put two clown fish in it. <Hopefully this was "actually" cycled....> After a week we bought a Tiny Hippo Blue tang <This fish cannot survive long in a 30 gallon tank. It needs FAR more space than this.> and of course she got ick <.... ALL fish should be quarantined prior to adding them to your system....> we treated them with medication and all of our fish died after all, we even give them a fresh water dip and nothing helped. <Need to research, here....> Now we have a bare tank and we don't know what to do. How long should we wait for the water and the rocks to be cleared of ick? And the medication in the water? What would you suggest we start with, we really want to buy a bigger tank in a year could we hold a tiny blue tang in there for a year and then switch to a bigger tank. Should we put the Clown fish first and then the blue tank or the other way around? We do not have a quarantine tank, what is the best suggestion to start all over? <Please begin reading, researching.... Your questions are not unique, and have been asked by many beginners. You'll find the answers to what you seek here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm . Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Spot on Marine Angel fish... owee from decompression procedure? 7/31/06 Hello crew, <Laurie> I've been researching on your website, but can't seem find an exact match for a possible issue with my marine angel. I purchased a Swallowtail angel two week ago. She is isolated in my QT. I did not freshwater dip her prior to putting her in the QT. <Not always advisable> A few days after bringing her home, I noticed a small white bump on her side. It's about the size of a scale. I thought that perhaps it might be a single parasite, so at that time I did capture her for a buffered (baking soda to ~8.2 pH) freshwater dip (with Methylene blue). However, I removed her after only 1 minute, as she started to thrash, which scared me. <Can be scary> Now, after about 10 days, it has turned a yellow-brown. No other spots are on her. I have decided to leave her in the QT until that spot is gone, but feel that I should know what it is, so that I can further treat her properly, if needed. <Good. This is what I would likely do as well> I tried to get a picture, but she freaks out at the camera and I can't catch her in a frame! Oh - I added a skunk cleaner, thinking that if it is a parasite, <Excellent> or actually, anything else that needs to be cleaned off, that he could assist. I have seen her letting him hop on occasionally. But, the spot is still there. Would you know what this spot might be? <Mmm, likely a "sore" from the process of capture... most likely a/the entrance of a needle to "decompress" this animal... Many marine fishes are caught at depths that make such "gas bladder bleeding" expedient, rather than the long-wait of bringing to the surface slowly...> Thank you for your help - both past and present. Regards, Laurie O. <Keep your eye on water quality, and don't be too wary of moving/placing this Genicanthus sp. in your main system. Very likely it is relatively disease free. Bob Fenner>

Re: Spot on Marine Angel fish 7/31/06 Hi Bob, <Laur> Thank you. That's great news. I will plan on moving her this coming weekend, then. (That will be a full 3 weeks in QT.) <Good> Water quality is pretty good in the QT - ammonia and nitrite at 0; nitrate at 20 ppm. I just did a 5% water change, too. I have another, unrelated question for you, if you don't mind? <Sure> I was poking around yesterday, and found on this page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm; under the section "Biological/Pathogenic Disease: Identification, Pathogens/Agents, a photo that shows zigzag lines/trails on what may be live rock (or is it a fish?). <Oh! Is a pic of nematodes, Roundworms encysted in the dermis of a Moray Eel...> It is the fourth photo down in this section. I looked at all of the links to the left, but could not find that photo in any of those links. Do you know what the zigzag lines are? <Yes... please see here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisfaq2.htm about mid-way down... the same pic> We've had three occasions of something looking exactly like these in our 110 display tank. <Mmm> Twice on the glass wall, once on a rock. We thought they were snail eggs. But, now I'm worried, because your photo is under the disease section! Thanks again, Laurie O. <There are many such-appearing living "things"... likely what you saw were actually eggs... most likely of a mollusk of some sort. Not to worry re. Bob Fenner>

Dead Sea... Disease/Ich/QT - 07/27/06 Good Morning Crew <Good morning Mike.> I've only been in the hobby (2nd career) for about 12 weeks now. What a long bumpy ride it has been. I feel like I'm in way over my head, but I feel like my investment of $ and time is too great to turn back. <As you acquire knowledge, things become much easier.> I'll try to keep this short. About 3 weeks ago I had what I believed to be a mild outbreak of ich on 3 of my fish (Bi-Color Angel, Coral Beauty and Sailfin Tang). In an effort to not over react I tried to maintain good water conditions with water changes and I did raise the aquarium temp. to 80-82 as well as lower the salinity to .017. Things looked better for a couple of days and then last week I lost my bi-color angel, the other two looked o.k. but Saturday I noticed more ich. I decided to remove the remaining fish from the tank to a QT tank I have running. It was actually Sunday that I moved the fish to QT. <Should have quarantined before placing the fish into the display tank.> I was treating with copper in the QT tank. I was making 25% water changes daily, vacuuming the bottom daily (prior to water change) and checking the copper in the a.m. and evening. As of this a.m. I have lost all of my fish. Secondary problem, since I have moved my fish from the main tank (I still have a few inverts in there . . . 4 cleaners shrimp, about 12 turbo snails and few hermits), I have had a really bad outbreak of BGA. <Do read here and related links above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm> I'm at the point where I feel it's obvious that I'm doing something very wrong. I don't want to keep killing fish and I don't want to throw in the towel. With my main tank (now with a bad case of BGA), should I break it all the way down and start over? <Not necessary. Let it run fallow for at least 30 days, feed inverts sparingly, continue water changes and cater to advice from above link(s).> Currently my set up is: 72 gallon bow front, I originally set it up with live sand and about 50lbs of live rock, I have a canister (Fluval 404), an external bio-wheel, a protein skimmer and since the ich outbreak I installed a uv sterilizer. As of yesterday: ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates .2, PH 8.3. And right now . . . a lot of BGA on the substrate. My QT tank (where I was treating with copper) is a 20-gallon, with sponge filter, heater and air stone. When I set it up for QT, I took one of the sponges from the Fluval 404 (this left 3 of the 4) and used it in the QT filter for bio filter. <Not a good idea to put components from a diseased tank into your QT.> If I continue should I re-start this tank with new water and filter media or just keep it going? Should I add fish to it soon to keep the bio filter going? If I use it for a QT for new fish do I have to worry about ich (since I had been treating with copper)? <No need to restart, again, let tank go fallow for 30 days, then filter with a Poly-Filter or Chemi-Pure to remove copper. I would then change 25% of the water in this tank.> I'm sorry to bombard you guys . . . I'm at a fork in the road . . . continue on? or give it up? and leave it to you guys . . . the pros. <Do more reading, Mike, and have patience.> Thanks so much . . . I wish I had a fraction of the knowledge the WWM crew possesses. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> A very frustrated Mike <Hopefully soon, not to be. All your personal information was deleted to protect your privacy. Please delete this info in future queries.> Mike

Remorse w/o recourse to study, Blindly listening... Disease, SW 7/26/06 I have a blue tang that had ICH. Everything was perfect until I listened to my LFS. They told me to put him in a bucket of water and use one tablet of Clout for 4 hours. <?> I thought that was too long and left him in there for 2 hours and 20 minutes. When I put him back to the display tank he was completely pale and looked like he was in shock. <... was this water, system filtered, aerated during this interval?> He was running into rocks and falling to the bottom on his sides, breathing very heavily and dis-orientated. I feel like I let this guy down and didn't research enough. Please let me know if there is anything I can do. I turned the lights off and I am praying! Thanks <... Please read on WWM re Dips/Baths, this species (Paracanthurus), Cryptocaryon... Bob Fenner>

Marine Set-Up...Newbie Off To A Bad Start 6/1/06 Hi. <Hello Andrew> I hope you can help because I'm getting several different responses from my local pet shops... <Not surprising.> We just purchased a 55 gal. saltwater tank about 2 1/2 weeks ago. About 70 lbs. of live rock, Fluval 300 filter, heater, 2 ocellaris <ocellaris> clown fish, 2 mollies, 1 serpent starfish, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 hermits, 10 med. snails, Condy anemone, <Should not have anemones with fish other than clowns.> Blue Regal Tang <This is not a fish for a new tank/new aquarist.> and royal Gramma. I added all of the animals at different times. Except the clowns which were added simultaneously. One clown broke out with ick about a week ago and died yesterday. The regal has been showing signs of ick for about 5 days and won't come out of hiding. This morning she is barely swimming and floating near the bottom. I don't have a hospital tank but intend to get one this afternoon. <Not going to do much good now, by the sound of it. Should have bought the quarantine tank first.> I treated (and am continuing to treat) the tank with an organic solution called "Ick Attack". This medication killed my anemone as of yesterday afternoon and my cleaner shrimp was dead this morning. The shrimp's death really shocked me this morning! <Shouldn't use most meds with inverts, can be lethal.> My Gramma seems to be okay, though he's hiding all the time as well. My water levels are perfect - no nitrates, no nitrites, pH is good, salinity is about .021 and the tank is at about 80 degrees. I don't know what to do! Will a hospital tank (with the regal) be a cure-all? Is ick the culprit of all of this. <Ich and little or no knowledge of the hobby. Your dealer didn't help much either, selling you a Regal Tang, a difficult fish to keep for someone starting out.> The regal does have white spots on her and her color is fading. The color of my clown is also fading fast. <Not surprising.> The mollies seem to be the hardiest - no signs of ick and are the best eaters, though they are always swimming at the top of the water... <Will be there with the sudden salinity change.> I hope you can help! I'm at a loss... <April, I think you went into this blind. Have you read a book relating to this hobby as to set-up, cycling, QT tanks, compatibility, water quality, maintenance, etc before starting this venture. Shame on your dealer also. I'm going to guess by the time you get this, the Gramma will probably be the only survivor. Do read this link and related links/FAQ's above in hoping you will get a better understanding of this hobby. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marineSetUp.htm> Thank you! <You're welcome. A wonderful hobby, April, now it's time to get educated about it, and I'm not being sarcastic in anyway, just trying to send you down the right path. James (Salty Dog)> April Slaughenhoup

Angel with cloudy eye 5/23/06 Dear WWM crew: I have recently introduced a moderate sized Emperor Angel into my 150 gallon fish-only system that contains only three other inhabitants: Achilles Tang, Maroon clown, and Spiny Boxfish. Although the angel appeared to acclimate well and is an assertive feeder, it has developed persistent "abrasions" on the pectoral fins and slight clouding of one eye. The clouding is not diffuse (appears almost like excess mucous) and not accompanied by Exophthalmus. The fish will occasionally "rest" between rocks, but otherwise is active and approaches anyone who goes near the aquarium. My presumption is that the fin abrasions and eye abnormality are bacterial in origin, <Mmm, most likely> likely secondary to minor trauma or stress (water parameters are stable). If I'm correct that the problem is not fungal/parasitic, would you recommend a nitrofurantoin-based treatment (in quarantine) such as Jungle "fungus eliminator?" <... possibly... How long has this been going on?> Is there any role for a freshwater bath given that bacteria are unicellular and should not be able to osmoregulate (like parasites)? Thanks for your advice, Dana <As stated in articles, FAQs posted on WWM... five, ten minutes. Did you freshwater dip this animal as part of the original acclimation procedure? This could be something else... my next best guess is trematodes/flukes... Need for microscopic examination... Bob Fenner>

Re: Angel with cloudy eye - 05/23/2006 Thank you for your reply. The duration of symptoms is now approximately 10 days and began around 1 week post transfer from quarantine. <I see> The other fish in the aquarium have not shown visible signs of infection, though the Achilles Tang was darting around for a few days (now back to normal color, swimming behavior). <Not atypical for Acanthurus species... when new livestock, changes occur...> I did not freshwater dip the fish before or after quarantine. As far as microscopic examination, I do have the equipment to perform this analysis--the issue is how to procure a specimen without further stressing/damaging the fish. <Mmm, I see you have a medical doctor affiliation... For what you have invested here, and into the future, I encourage you to seek out and borrow or buy a copy of Edward Noga "Fish Disease. Diagnosis & Treatment"... This single reference will grant you insights as to body slime slide prep., the current rudiments of pathology of ornamental fishes> Therefore, since my original message, I made the decision to treat the fish in quarantine with Jungle's nitrofurantoin-based treatment, again without a freshwater dip. If I understand you correctly, do you believe that there is a role for a freshwater bath even if the assumption of bacterial infection is correct? <Mmm... well, if I/you were going to the "trouble" to remove, isolate this fish already, I would elect to process it through a pH-adjusted freshwater bath enroute> Thank you again, Dana <I do hope this is clearer. Bob Fenner> P.S. I can try to obtain a digital image if things do not improve <Appreciate this>

Sick fish - advice requested.- 05/16/2006 Greetings to all from Florida!! Have an 80 gal. fish only with live rock which has been set up now for about two years. Following are test parameters: pH 8.4 Sp. Grav. betwn 1.25 & 26 on hydrometer NH4 0 NO2 0 NO3 0 KH DH about 9.3 (Salifert) The tank is running on a wet/dry with one power head in the tank, Remora Pro skimmer. Have lots of Algae red, brown and purple. Tonight my angel did not feed (pygmy type) and is hiding in the rockwork. I noted that my ocellaris clown has a dusty look with some raggedy fins. Have made no additions to this tank in months. Am doing 5 gallon water changes each week. Any suggestions you may have would be appreciated. Thanks for listening. Keith Ehrlich <<Keith: Fish are more susceptible to diseases at higher SG. For that reason, many LFS keep their livestock at SG 1.019 or less. Of course, that is not the best for the inverts. On the chance that your readings are off, I suggest you borrow or buy a refractometer to check your SG since they are very accurate instruments. Meanwhile, you could reduce your SG to 1.024, or slightly less, to help the fish. Due to the live rock and critters on them, you would ideally want to catch the fish and put them into a QT for treatment. There are very few products you would want to use a main tank with live rock and inverts. If you suspect Ich, the best treatment is to put the fish in QT and slowly lower the SG to 1.009 (measured with a refractometer) and hold it there for 6 weeks. Then, slowly raise the SG back to the level of the main tank. Best of luck, Roy>>

Fish disease, parasitized system, poor grammar Good Morning WetWebMedia crew, <Dimitris> Hope you and your fish are doing fine. I wanted to ask a question or two on fish diseases. Specifically, I have had a reef setup for 1 1/2 years now (before it was FOWLR w/ triggers) and now it houses a yellow tang, yellow Fiji tang, saddle back clown, yellow/purple Basslet, mandarin, orange Anthias and a 6 line wrasse. It used to also house a Scopas tang and a Kole, <How large is this system?> however, since last week the Scopas has been traded (too aggressive) and the Kole died after it stopped eating and showed a few white dots probably ich?) very tiny, barely seen. <Likely stress was a very large component here> I moved him to a Q-tank however he expired several days after. I also tried to lower salinity to 1.019 but nothing. Now, the remaining fish are coming down with something since there is some scratching going on. The clown fights occasionally with the Basslet scratches, clown doesn't, but has cloudy eyes/dots, and some white stuff, doesn't look grainy on his body, I'd say just small blotches. <Where are the spaces twixt your sentences? Arrrgggghhh!> Those are visible on the yellow tang's tail even though he eats like a hog. Fiji tang is unaffected so far. 6 line wrasse is ok, no sign of anything, and of course the Anthias looks healthy. no problem with the mandarin, I know they do not get ich or such). My question is, how can I treat this without removing the fish? <Can't> I have been feeding Formula II flakes, NORI, Formula II frozen cubes, and lately Mysis and occasionally frozen shrimp. I also started offering medicated flakes provided by an LFS. I know that hyposalinity doesn't get rid of the spores/eggs, and It is impossible to catch the fish( I was able to remove the Scopas and Kole by pulling 150lbs of LR out of the tank along with 30+ corals mostly softies). Am I heading for disaster? It looks like this was caused by the Scopas harassing everyone, Kole came down with the disease and passed it over to others. However, I had a clown fish in the past that came down with Brooklynella, and it seems that my new clown has something very similar. I also wonder if there is 2 or perhaps 3 types of infestations in the tank now? Bottom line... this is a 165 g acrylic tank with a refugium and Caulerpa. Skimmer is EuroReef CS6-1, no biofilter. I was using a RO/DI PureFlo II) for water changes, however, the membrane/DI cartridge would only last about 2 months even after I switched to a KENT Hi-S DI cartridge water is extremely bad in this area-Clearwater, FL - and I started getting diatoms all over. TDS were above 70 so I stopped using the unit and switched to local supermarket water (Ozonated and DI). The diatoms disappeared. The only thing that remained was some black spots on the live rock looked like BGA) so instead of treating those chemically, I scraped/brushed off most of it when I removed the LR to catch the Scopas/Kole tangs. I don't remember doing anything out of the ordinary to have caused this. Fish were fine for 1 1/2 years. My ammonia/nitrite are 0, and I do a 5 g water change every week. Everything was fine up until I switched to the other water. Temp stays at 82(no wild fluctuations). Can the excessive fighting have caused this outbreak? Thanks, Dimitris. <Have just skipped down. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm and the linked files above, part. on Crypt. Bob Fenner> Question re: new fish with raised scales on only one side 4/6/06 I just picked this fish up today but didn't see the raised scales until I was home (well after the LFS was closed of course). All of the fish in the tank looked healthy, this one is active and curious and shows no other signs of disease. Could this just be constipation or some sort of bruising from a bumpy ride home? Are there other possibilities other than the dropsy or tumors? <Yes, environmental, parasitic, nutritional... no info. on even whether this is marine, brackish, freshwater... or graphic/pic...> There are 2 things to note here: 1. Raised scales on left side toward the middle of the body. 2. A lack of symmetry from left to right - maybe a bulge on the right near the tail. (maybe just imagined due to the raised scales and the fact that the fish was actively swimming in the photo) <Use the Google tool on WWM... for "dropsy"... read. Bob Fenner>

SW sick tank... mis-stocked, mis-treated, late knowledge 4/3/06 Hi <Hello> I am hoping you can advise me - before I lose any more fish! We started a new marine tank in October last year, it's a cube, 45 gallons - this was recommended by the local fish shop and sold to me as a 'complete marine setup'. <I see> So by February it was doing very well and stocked with:- A copper banded butterfly, <This species needs more room...> a small red starfish; a regal tang, <Much more> 2 common Clownfishes, a flame angel, a goby, a mandarin, a cleaner shrimp, a turbo snail, a red legged hermit crab and a blue/black legged hermit crab. One medium sized pink soft coral (shaped kind of like a bell, or a vase) <Perhaps a Goniopora, "flowerpot coral"... not easily kept> and a piece of rock with coloured polyps on it. A new anemone, <No...> couple of weeks ago. Tank was lovely, really interesting. <But totally mis- and inappropriately stocked> I have live rock and on the advice from the shop on startup, two bags of live sand on the bottom (about an inch and a half covering the bottom). About 5 weeks ago the copper banded butterfly died suddenly, he hadn't been poorly - <Only as far as you're aware...> we just got up in the morning and he was on his side and then died. We did all the tests - all fine; did a major water change and a couple of weeks later added a new copper banded. <... no...> One day last week he also died suddenly with no warning. Tests were normal and we took a sample of water into the fish shop who thought the nitrite may be a little high (although my own test kit showed normal) <Nitrite should be zero> and recommended a 50% water change which we did when we got home. <Better to limit such changes to no more than 25% if possible> Since then we have lost both clowns, then the mandarin (who had some white faded patches one morning, dead next day). <None of the livestock was quarantined I take it...> Our regal tang the day before yesterday had sugar-like white spots all over her so I read all I could on your site then went back to the fish shop yesterday and purchased all I needed to set up a quarantine tank which I did last night. <Ah, good> However, the guy in the shop told me not to use aggressive treatments, he told me to use Kent Marine, expert Series Rx P (parasite treatment for marine fish and most invertebrates, <Is worthless> it says on the bottle) and treat the fish in the main display tank, moving out into the new tank the starfish, crabs, anemone and the cleaner shrimp. The tang no longer has spots this morning, <Has cycled off... and will be back... you'll see> she is swimming and eating fine but scratching herself on the rocks. The other two show no sign as yet. This is what I did, so the situation I have now is a main display tank with live rock and sand and the three remaining fishes (tang, goby and flame angel) that I have treated once with this RxP stuff. And the new tank that I filled with water from the display tank, with everything else in it. My problem now is, after having read some more on the site I think that this may have been the wrong way round <Agreed> and I should have removed the fish, and treated them with something a bit more aggressive (the little man in the shop was very dismissive about copper or anything else). <Perhaps he has reason/s?> Do you think I have done things wrong, and if so how can I correct things before I lose my last three fishes? <Mmm, having been one of these little (okay, medium sized) men in a shop for many years, and helped run a large service co. for a couple of decades, and done other work in the trade, I want to assure you that there are no safe and effective "in-tank" parasiticides... You do need to move all the fish life elsewhere... treat it with whatever you decide, and leave the main system fish-less for several weeks to limit/kill-off the parasite/s... likely Crypt here. Going forward, you should investigate before you buy, match your livestock for their habitat needs, compatibility... and quarantine before introduction> I don't know how to do a freshwater dip and if you feel this necessary can you tell me EXACTLY what to do as it strikes me as being slightly cruel/dangerous to the fish? <Dips won't help at this point> Do you think this rather expensive treatment I bought will do the job? <...> If not, please help. How long do I leave the other ones (anemone, shrimp etc) in the separate tank and as I used water from the main display this presumably has the disease in it, how can I avoid moving it back into the main tank when I put those other animals back? I am very grateful for your help. Thanks. Sue Baker <Sue... read and chat with folks you deem knowledgeable till you understand the underlying facts, directions, consequences here. You are learning an important, though painful lesson... There is/are no "one answers" in much of this hobby/experience... but there are much more likely venues to attend. Bob Fenner>

Re: SW sick tank... mis-stocked, mis-treated, late knowledge - 04/05/2006 Hi, thanks for your response. However, I still don't know what to do. I am in the wilds of North Wales and have only one fish shop, the one I have been using. I don't know anyone else who has a marine tank which I why I came to you for advice. <... which you've read where you were referred to on WWM?> Can I move the coral, shrimp, anemone etc back into the main tank (which has been treated with the RxP stuff) so that I can move the live fish out, or do I need to purchase a third tank? <Can be moved back> As I already have the two crabs, dwarf flame angel and regal tang, can you suggest a couple of other fish that would be compatible? <Not for now... you need to fix the inherent problems you've been party to here... will take a few months> OK, I understand that copper can be dangerous and should be use very careful, but is this what you recommend as the best treatment to try to save my fish? <Read> You say "no" about the anemone but don't say why. <Read... toxic, incompatible here> You say that the spots have cycled off and will be back - but don't suggest what I can do about it! Please help. Sue Baker <... Read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm and the linked files at top. How to put this (succinctly): You don't (apparently) know enough to formulate a plan for treatment here... Until you do, it is better (by far) for you to study, understand the needs (read on WWM re the Systems, Compatibility, Feeding...) of the livestock you list... Do this soon as your livestock are in imminent need of attention. Bob Fenner>

Marine Aquaria; Lack of Research, Over-Stocking, Not Quarantining'¦..same old, same old 3/30/06 Thanks for all the articles, <Quite welcome.> but I'm not finding the answers I need. <Hey Crew?!'¦'¦We've heard that before huh?> I'm a beginner at this, have had my tank almost a year and I'm having problems. <I'm here to help.> I have a 90 gallon fish only tank with an under gravel filter with 2 - 802 AquaClear powerheads <Ooh'¦.UG is probably the utmost worst possible way to filter marine aquaria.> I am running copper. <Mmm'¦I would not do that in the display, read WWM re.> I do water changes religiously every two weeks, as my nitrates will run very high (100ppm). <I blame the UG plates, read WWM re marine filtration, at the least you need a protein skimmer, I would suggestive rock but with copper in the system'¦..> My salt water advisors/fish store sources here are limited, and all but my source in original advisor in Orlando want me to change to live rock, and other filter systems. I have recently added a used Magnum 350(date 2/22/06). <Sorry to be negative but aside from UG, canister filters are also one of the poorest choices for marine filtration.> Otherwise have had no problems keeping Am 0, Nitrites 0, Ph 8.2 <100ppm nitrates is a big problem'¦.need to be 20 or less for an F.O. tank.> Presently 1 - Male Blonde Naso Tang 7" 1 - Yellow tang 4" 1 - Blue hepatus Tang 3" 1 - Dwarf Angel Coral Beauty 2.5" 2 - Ocellaris False percula clownfish (had 5 to start - 3 died late last year) <You are grossly overstocked here dear, the Naso alone has a potential 21' size'¦.and copper is not my medication of choice for surgeons to say the least.> Most concerning presently are my Coral beauty, and hepatus tang which are scratching. Gill Flukes? <'¦Could be a number of things including Cryptocaryon irritans: marine ich'¦..> I've treated the tank once forgot what it was called/did not write it down, got it from my local advisor/fish guy who seems to be too busy for me and can not find any meds locally) <Read WWM re: quarantine, any medicating needs to be done there not in the display.> for this when only the hippo was scratching, now both fish are scratching regularly. What can I do? <First you need to get control of your water quality through water changes, and other means of nutrient export such as the protein skimmer mentioned above'¦.then you should identify the disease of any (the critters may just be suffering from poor water quality) and treat accordingly, read WWM re'¦> In the last two months I've added a number of fish with problems. <I would discontinue with the addition of livestock, the tank is overstocked as is.> I know these places I buy fish from do not hold them before selling them - in one day out the next. <This is not a good practice by the stores'¦..but even more prudent, it is a good reason for you to quarantine.> 2/10 added Square Anthias - believe it was the coral beauty nipped at him, but things were looking happier after a couple of days for the Anthias, but the yellow tang stopped eating, 4 weeks later Anthias died, yellow tang started eating again. 2/28 Added a blue filamented wrasse 3/6 my Royal Gramma Basslet of almost 8 months died in a 4 day time frame 3/7 Anthias dead 3/14 Wrasse dead <Water quality and overcrowding are to blame, and possible disease form lack of QT.> I'd like to add a few more fish again, <You don't have the room nor is your tank ready to accept any new livestock by any means.> royal Gramma again, will research for others, but will take any suggestions you can give me. <Well you mentioned you liked our articles, after reading your query I suggest you continue to read them.> This sure can get frustrating!!!!! Lots of info on your web site searches, can spend way too much time trying to get specifics <Well ma'am it is evident from your mistakes that you have not searched our site to thoroughly, if you had, you would have avoided many of the mistakes you had made. Other than that we would love to hear any suggestions you have regarding spending to much time and making it easier on you, the reader.> Know this may be a lot to ask but do so appreciate your time and knowledge. <Anytime.> Brenda Crabbe <Adam Jackson.>

Unexpected Deaths 3/19/06 Hi, <Hello there> I was having a hard time finding a question similar to this, so I hope it is not a problem that I should have solve through previously asked e-mails. I have a 55 gal system, hang-on emperor 400, Coralife power compact lighting, aqua c remora protein skimmer, two powerheads, approx. 50 pounds of live rock. Currently ph is 8.3, no readings of nitrite, nitrate, or ammonium. Currently housing xenia, 1 large blue-green reef chromis, 1 percula clown, 1 yellow tang, 1 fire shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp, brittle star, emerald crab, with numerous hermits and snails. My question is concerning unexpected, quick deaths of fish. I have had two fish, most recently a midas blenny and 2 1/2 months before a blue reef chromis, die with absolutely no signs of disease. <Mmm, both generally quite hardy aquarium species...> Literally one day they are breathing normally, eating normally, no marks or spots; then the next day they are at the bottom of the tank breathing hard and die before the end of the day. This is after they have been in the tank for some time, so these are not "brand new" fish. Meanwhile, the other fish show no sign of discomfort. The midas blenny, which was the most recent death, was fine last night, swimming and eating happily. This morning, after all lights were on, the fish was on the bottom breathing heavily. I put food in and it responded, but would continue to breath heavily. There was no color lost or spots on the blenny. I checked everything and found nothing wrong, so I went to work. By the time I returned, the blenny was dead. The same thing happened in January with the blue chromis. Is there something I am not doing? <Mmm, no... not from the provided info. To confound this issue there are other organisms you list that are just as sensitive to "mysterious" influences... and they read as fine> Why is it happening so quickly and to only one fish while the others show no signs of disease? I am really confused about this and would like to correct whatever it is I am doing wrong. Thanks for any help you can provide. WJA <Seems here that these are "anomalous" losses... Some coincidence of "time bomb" sorts of problems inside these two fishes... Internal difficulties, genetic pre-disposition. I would not be deterred from trying replacements for these. Bob Fenner>

Beginner help ... SW... dis. 3/18/06 Hello, My wife and I have just started a 40 gallon saltwater tank. We let the tank mature for 4 weeks with live sand (no fish). <With testing?> We then added two clownfish. One of the clowns died after 10 days. By the eighth day it was showing stringy feces, which from what I've read on your site is an indicator of an internal parasitic infection. <Possibly...> I attempted a fresh water bath, but I think it was too late. We also bought a cleaner wrasse which later realized was a bad idea. <Yes...> The wrasse just today died and for the past two days was showing the stringy feces. I know that they usually don't live for more than a week, but my concern is my tank. My temp is at 78 with salt levels at 1.022. Two different aquarium shops have told me all my water levels are good. Do you think that the two fish dying are a coincidence or that this is related? <Impossible to state with what is offered here> How can we keep this from happening again? <Definitively? By not buying more fish/es... Realistically? By reading... studying the Net, books... taking care to pick out tank-bred clowns, appropriately acclimating them...> We are apprehensive about purchasing anything else. <Good to read> The one good note is the second of the two original clowns (we replaced the 1st that died) is still doing fine from what we observe. Any help would be greatly appreciated. We hear different things from everyone we talk to and just want to do things right. Thanks in advance, Chris <Educate yourself/selves... Reads as if this system really is just "settling in"... you need test kits, tests... Bob Fenner>

Royal Gramma Help... actually, an example of punctuated knowledge, learning in our species... A useful paradigm for military conflicts, government manipulation of the masses 3/16/06 Hi, I started a fish only saltwater aquarium about 7 weeks ago. I cycled the tank with damsels and removed them as I was told by my fish consultant when I was ready to get other fish. <Mmm, see WWM re this practice... the damsels may have left you a nasty (disease) surprise...> I bought 2 percula clowns and 1 royal Gramma. In about 2 days, one clown died and from the way I described it, my fish consultant believes it was clownfish disease. <There's more than one... Brooklynellosis? Should not have occurred if these were tank bred...> About a week later, I lost the other one. I am waiting about 2 weeks before I buy anymore clowns. <... in the meanwhile, please read on WWM re these animals needs> I have now had the royal Gramma for about 3 weeks and over that time I have added a Heniochus butterfly, a coral beauty angel, and a strawberry Pseudochromis. <... how large is this system? How filtered?> The Pseudochromis charged at the royal Gramma once or twice when I first added him to the display tank, and they have seemed fine ever since. <Will be unless this system is "at least four feet long"> I see no tension between any of the fish right now. They are all eating fine and look healthy, except the royal Gramma. A couple days ago, I noticed his top fin was a little rigid and had a tiny tear in it. I also saw that his left fin looks like the cartilage has been torn. <Likely from tussling with the Dottyback> He can still swim fine, but I am concerned. I also saw that one of his bottom fins looks like half of it was sort of snapped off. I also see 2 whitish lines back above his eyes, but I don't know if they were there before. Could these characteristics be from the Pseudochromis or could it be an infection of some kind? <Both, from one, then the other... will likely die if not removed, treated elsewhere> I am very concerned and if you have any advice, please let me know. Thanks! <... as time goes by you'll understand how little useful information you have provided here. Please, do yourself and your livestock the favor of educating yourself. Don't rely on a consultant, me... read. Bob Fenner>

Stressed out B/F's... some valuable life lessons in resource limitation - 03/11/2006 Hello, <Hi there> I'm hoping you can help me out here. I have a 55 gal. with 2 small Perc. Clowns & 2 Butterflies (Pearlscale & threadfin). <Mmm, this sized system for these Chaetodonts is problematical...> My husband came home with a new tank mate 2 days ago and my butterflies have gone crazy. He added a Sailfin Tang, very small, still a juv. The Sailfin is doing great, very friendly, but the butterflies & clowns have all crowded into the top corner of the tank. <Sort of like having "Jack the Knife" move into your home here> After the first night, I woke up and both B/F's were covered with spots, on the fins and the body, looked like someone took a salt shaker to them. <Ahh... Cryptocaryon... very likely present in your system in sub-symptomatic level... brought on to hyperinfective state by the added stress...> I called my LFS and they said that was very strange for that to happen overnight and to re-arrange the decor and make new homes. <Mmm, no> They said maybe the Sailfin was trying to take over the tank. <Has> What should I do? It is the second day and they look better but still have visual signs of the spots, and are still acting scared for there lives. Thanks, Wendy Thank You, <The ich/crypt is cycling... going into a soon-to-be much larger stage... Very big trouble likely brewing here... There is a bunch for you to know, and the only expedient way (not knowing what you know...) is to sift through materials on this and related situations: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above. You need also to address the root cause of the troubles here: crowding, the mixing of incompatibles in such a system, and the lack of quarantine... I'd separate the Zebrasoma tang, and get ready to do what you will for your ich infested system... and soon. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Help... Perculosis? What a hoot mon - 03/11/2006 Hi, my name is Laura and I started a fish only saltwater tank about 7 weeks ago. I let the tank cycle for a month with damsels and took them out when I was ready to get other fish, as I was told by my fish consultant. I started out with a royal Gramma, a coral beauty angel, who are doing great, and two percula clownfish. After two days, one clownfish died. I went to my fish consultant and from the way I described how the one clown looked before he died, he said it was probably Perculosis. <Heeee! Sorry... this is a new one to me> I was going to wait and see how my other clown was for a while, and he looked perfectly fine, but he was kind of acting weird. At first he would hang out at the top a lot, then he would be fine. Then he would be at the bottom a while, then he would be fine. <Pretty typical behavior...> About 5 days later, I decided to get another clown to see if anything changed. He seems a lot better to be with a partner. Then, a few days later, I got a Heniochus Butterfly. <How large is this system? You're not quarantining new livestock...> The day I brought him home, I noticed a white string-like thing hanging off of both the clowns (underneath their bottom fins). I looked on the web and thought it could be a parasite, so I put a few capfuls of a Perma-Guard substance I have. <...? In the main tank?> I need to wait and see what happens, but I am still worried. Do you have any advice? Thanks Laura <Yes... study... don't rely on a consultant to make known what needs to be... You will not enjoy or have success this haphazard way. See WWM re Livestock Selection, Quarantine... and the needs of the animals you have, intend... Before their acquisition. Perhaps the reading of a good, general marine aquarium tome would give/grant you a good all-round understanding here. Bob Fenner>

Avoiding Disease, Biol., SW 03/9/06 Hey guys, <Hi Jason! Tim answering your question today.> I know it's recommended to use live rock in a marine tank as biological filtration but can you get away with strictly bio balls and sump <You certainly can, referred to as a FO system (Fish Only) as opposed to FOWLR (Fish Only with Live Rock).> ? I previously had a marine tank and could not find a reliable store to purchase affordable saltwater fish without being infested with disease. Now I'd like to just be able to treat my main tank if there is a disease problem because I don't have the room for a QT tank anymore. What do you suggest? <I suggest finding a seller that offers healthy fish. If that is not possible, or in any case really, I suggest finding a place for a QT. If that is not an option either then I would suggest leaving the hobby, perhaps switching to freshwater, until you have a QT and/or a respectable supplier of livestock. If you keep your tank bare, with the intention of being able to medicate the main system as and when necessary, consider the following: you will not be able to have substrate in your tank (as this will absorb medication), you will not be able to have any inverts incl. shrimp and snails as these can be very sensitive to certain medications, and you will have to, depending on your choice of fish, provide generally unattractive artificial shelter for shy fish to hide. Most marine fish fare best when the aquarist is able to closely replicate their natural environment - in my opinion, a bare aquarium frequently plagued by disease does not fit that criteria. I do apologize for being so blunt. Please do not hesitate to ask further questions in relation to this.> Thanks

Velvet! Jumping all the way in w/o knowing what you're doing 03/07/06 I am currently reading over your site looking for answers regarding the issue. I have a 150gal, it is now FOWLR....It went through a rough move. Now an outbreak of velvet. Resulting in the loss of several fish. Still living is a white-faced surgeonfish, and a clown. I've been trying to capture the fish to put into QT....damn rocks! <Really best to systematically dismantle, drain here> I have lowered SPG it is now at 1.017, Should I lower it more? <... I would not> I have raised the temp. to high 80's. <This, these will not effect a cure here> The clown has clouded eyes, ragged fins and a velvety coating. Its breathing is rapid early in the morning and at night, throughout the day the coating appears to subside. The tang has very rapid breathing throughout the day, but the spots on it are less. In the mornings, it appears to have dark spots that are spotted all over then gradually fade away as the day progresses. ? <Yes> I realize this to be a no no, but I have treated the main display. <With?> Until I am able to capture the fish, I don't know what else to do (other than try a little harder I suppose). I have been using Nox-Ich.... <... Malachite Green... in the presence of LR, calcareous substrate? Won't work... except to stain all> I guess I wasn't really aware of what was in that....is it something that can create problems for things to later grow on the LR? <... You're hopefully joking> Hard lesson learned in this whole situation (as always). Anyways, If I performed a freshwater dip... I put water in a bucket (sterile bucket), get ph and temp and spg (?) to that of what they are currently in? (I was once told there is no such thing as a stupid question, but I think I may get reprimanded/laughed at here...) What would be recommended to add to that dip? Methylene blue (I don't currently have this)? Or....could either the Nox-Ich or MelaFix work (I realize that these are probably the worse "meds" I could own now) ? Or would just the simple freshwater be of some relief to the fish with no medication being involved until I can get what is recommended? I will be giving baths from here on out where needed. I haven't done one and the article re the issue was a little scary. Sorry for any repeated questions and really, thank you for your help! I will continue about my search on the site now. Sincerely, Codie <... have just skipped down. Please see WWM re Amyloodiniumiasis, Parasitic Tanks and Reef Tanks... Bob Fenner>

White Spots, What Could They Be? Poor Planning - 02/16/2006 I've read that these tiny white spots on my tank glass are probably copepods the white spots seem to have tiny "legs" as well). <Uh...Do these move?> However, my Powder Brown Tang seems to have white spots as well they seem smaller than the "copepods"). <Not good.> He is a very healthy eater and swims a lot, he seems no different except for the spots. <OK> I thought at first he may have gotten salt stuck on his skin I added water that I thought was dissolved, but the salt went everywhere in the tank). <!?> Does my tang have ick? <Can't say for sure, but a definite possibility. Have you read WWM re?> The 60 gal. tank is six weeks old I now know this was too early for a PB Tang) <And too small.> Ammonia levels are below 0.25, <Should be 0! This fish is not easy.> No traces of nitrites or nitrates, Spec. Grav. is 1.022, pH 8.2. <These last two should be at NSW levels.> Please tell me how I can help my tang The other fish don't seem affected-Ocellaris Clown, Target Mandarin Goby, Copper Banded Butterfly.) <Whoa...You've got a good bit of reading to do. You've started with some difficult fishes. Revisit some basics here also (on tank maintenance, live stock requirements). http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm . Good luck. - Josh>

... Understanding disease in aquatic, marine systems - 02/16/2006 Information on tank and critters is below. Ammonia has since gone down to zero. Nitrates went up to 25, did a 10g/25% water change (40g total vol.) My problem, late last week my blenny started exhibiting some (stranger then usual) bouncing acrobatics that looked to me to be flashing. <Could be just from the nitrates> He also seemed to become generally irate and his color was slightly pale. <Ditto> The dwarf angel in the tank with him was (and still is currently) almost constantly trying to get one of the shrimp too clean her. Unfortunately the cleaner & peppermint have no interest, and the fire shrimp has only done so very little (that I've seen). Their are no other external signs (perhaps slightly increased breathing, but that could be attributed to anything). I see no signs of parasites but it seems to me that that must be the issue. I unfortunately did not previously have a good qt/dip regiment (I've already changed that, purchased a small 10g tank/power filter/heater/live-rock rubble to be used for treatment. I have already put the blenny in a freshwater/Methylene dip (5 teaspoons/3g) and then put him back into the main tank after doing a quick rinse in freshly mixed saltwater. It took him a good while to come out of his hiding place after that but he looked *much* better. His color had returned to normal and although he still flashes every once in a while, it is a good deal less. Now that I have the quarantine tank set up should I throw them in their w/ some copper (I bought Cupramine) and a low dose of Methylene blue (after a freshwater dip of course) and let the tank go fallow? Should I wait for more external signs to appear? <I would> I have added some Prime to the main tank to hopefully aid in slime coat (re)growth but beyond that I have just been changing a couple of gallons a day in an attempt to maintain high water quality. No medications as of yet besides the dipped blenny. Shrimps/crabs/snails show no odd behavior and both fish are still eating and maintaining normal energy levels. <Bob Fenner>

Ick, puffer, clownfish, and lionfish need help. Writer needs to read... and act... quick 2/10/06 Ok I just got a dog face puffer about 3 weeks ago was quarantined didn't see any signs of ick, eating and very alert and as soon as I put him in the big tank 220 with 2 clownfish and a lionfish that is about 4 inches (body) long. that I have had for 6months, now they all have ick <The system had/has it...> except for the lion from what I can see he is ok and eating just fine the two Sebae clowns have white specks and some white patches on them, the puffer has spots from what I can see only on his fins. They just started showing signs yesterday when I went to feed them. the day before they were fine since I do a head count and body check on everyone each day. they have all been in the tank together for about 3-4 days. What is the best medicine that I should treat the fish with. <... posted on WWM> I have Greenex at home and have used on fish before without any problems. But several people on here say not to use it. <Malachite Green and Formalin... not a good choice> I just don't want to loose my puffer or my clownfish. <Or lose them> I haven't seen the clownfish bothering the puffer so I don't think it is stress related. Could it be possible that I got the ick from feeding the clowns and puffer live ghost shrimp that I purchased from the pet store, <Ah, yes> I thought that freshwater ick if they had it wouldn't survive in saltwater. <Doesn't... isn't this> At this point I don't know if I should just treat the whole tank, <Need to be treated elsewhere...> since I don't have any inverts or live rock in the tank just sand bottom. Or if I should try to catch the fish and put them in a hospital tank. <Yes, this last> I have raised the temp in the main tank to 82 from 79. All my tests come up reading 0 and my SG is at 1.023-1.024. Please advise me on the best action to take at this point. I can transfer to a 20 gallon hospital tank if needed. with cycled water from my other 20 gallon tank. <Read... soon... on WWM re Crypt, its treatments: See here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above... Bob Fenner> Lora

Emperor Angel mouth problem 1/25/06 Dear Crew, <Dana> I have a 5 1/2" Emperor Angel whom I have had for just under 2 years. He has always been healthy, eats everything, and has almost completely changed over to his adult form. He is perfect in every way but one. Over the last six months, I noticed that his mouth looked different than it should (I had one many years ago, plus see them in LFS and photos). I have had no luck taking photos that clearly show what I am talking about, so I shall attempt to describe his mouth. Quite simply, it looks as if someone grabbed it with a pair of pliers and pulled it forward. There does not appear to be any growths on it, more like it has cracks in it. His mouth does protrude out, the bottom more so than the top. I can see what appear to be blood vessels under the skin in this area, and he is no longer able to close his mouth completely. It does not appear to bother him, as he is still eating quite well. But I am concerned that what originally looked like a "not so perfect specimen" now looks like something is obviously wrong. I did search your FAQs, and did find a couple of posts about tumors of the mouth, but neither of the posts offered a description for comparison. If this is a tumor, do you have any advice for a remedy? <Maybe a tumor, perhaps a genetic anomaly... could be resultant from a "bump" long ago... No remedy though...> Are my other fish in any danger? <Highly unlikely, no> I am not certain if this is related, but I have twice seen him breathing rapidly out of a single gill only (found several posts on this as well, but no clear answers), <Probably not a problem or related. Just something they do at times> but minutes later was breathing normally. Oh yes - water quality is excellent, with near zero nitrates and phosphates, pH is 8.2, temp 77. The tank is a 240 with 200 lbs. of live rock, though this was only added a few months ago. All other fish in the tank have perfect health. His diet includes virtually every frozen marine fish food on the market (I believe in variety!) fed twice a day, with dried seaweed fed twice a week. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated. Dana <I would soak the foods, algae in a vitamin/HUFA supplement (like Selcon, Microvit...), but otherwise do nothing else here. If this is a developmental disorder, or tumor as you speculate, hopefully it will spontaneously remit. Bob Fenner>

Letting Others Run Your Tank - 01/22/2006 Ok, <Hi there Ryan.> I guess you read me wrong when I first sent those emails. The research part isn't bad it's just a lot of info to. learn. <'Tis, but it's your only true protection.> I have a lot of fun with my tank, and yes I did run my tank through the cycle with the lionfish in it. <Patience...I know it's hard but you've got to pace yourself or it will catch up to you in a very bad way.> As for my other big tank I heard it wasn't that great to not put in starter fish. <From who? Wouldn't be from folks trying to sell those "starter fish" would it.> Also I heard that switching fish stores isn't that good because it's harder to trace a disease? <Uh...From the same folks? This just doesn't make any sense! QT...QT and it's a moot point. (Enter Pinocchio) "There are no strings on me!" Take the reins man! Research for yourself, don't let others make this harder than it needs to be.> Thanks Ryan, <Sure thing. - Josh>

Dottyback with Popeye 12/30/05 I recently bought a 1/2 purple/yellow saltwater fish. I can't remember what type of fish he is (maybe Dottyback?) anymore but here is my problem: He hides behind my heater and has developed a yellow protrusion on one eyeball. What do you think it is and how can I treat it?<<Please quarantine the fish and do some research and reading here on WWM. Search for 'Popeye' and 'exophthalmia'. Treatment medicines should not be used on your main tank. Good luck - Ted>>

Ich...or something like it on my new Niger trigger? First of all... outstanding web-site. This is the first time I have submitted a question, and I appreciate any response you have time for. After spending a lot of time searching around on the web-site, here's my situation. I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank w/fish only. I have a wet-dry and protein skimmer. It's been set up for about 10mos now. Approx 1 month ago, I had some temperature fluctuations and pH problems. Possibly because of these two catalysts, I had an ich outbreak which killed 4 of my fish. <Likely related, yes> That left me with a yellow tang, two damsels and a lunare wrasse. I medicated and stabilized the tank before purchasing a small Humu Humu trigger and a small niger trigger. <This system is too small for either...> I have had them for two days now. Yesterday, I noticed the niger had a small white bump... almost like a pimple on the side of his jaw below his mouth. Today there is another one almost identical below it. These don't look anything like what I saw when my other fish had ich (larger bumps). He is active and eats great. Has been rubbing a little on rocks. Just wondering if you think this is ich or something else. <Likely "just" environmental... stress, perhaps physical-bump related (from being moved about). Not worth "treating" per se> For now I'm going to treat it as ich, because I'm a little paranoid now. Can ich infect that quickly if it has not affected any fish for the last month or so? <Can "occur" within a day, yes... and your present fishes might well have a degree of acquired immunity... not show the crypt/ich, but act as reservoir hosts> Also, here are the water parameters. Ammonia 0 Ph 8.1-8.2 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 30 Salinity 1.022 Temp 79 I have had a problems keeping the nitrates in check and usually do a 50 percent water change every two weeks. <Too much... there are other ways to control... posted on WWM> I don't have live rock.... but am considering it to help with the nitrate. I have been told my triggers and wrasse will eat them clean, so they might not be worth buying. Any guidance on controlling nitrate would be great also. <Please see WWM re... the search tool, the indices... Bob Fenner> Thanks a bunch, Chad McGuire

Tangs, no quarantine, crypt, WWM Good morning, <Yes...> I have 125 reef that has been up for about a year now. At present I have 200 lbs live rock, 200 lbs live sand, 3 anemones, <Clones hopefully> 1 coral beauty angel, 1 gold stripe clown, 1 porcupine puffer, 1 dog face puffer, 2 horseshoe crabs, <With anemones?> 1 sand sifter star, 1 spiny oyster, <Wow, not easily kept> 1 queen conch, 2 red spot cardinals, snowflake eel, pencil urchin, emerald crab, scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 green mandarin (female), <... amazing> 2 green mushrooms, chestnut cowry, Cerith snails, 20 dwarf blue leg hermits, 9- turbo snails, 3 scarlet reef hermits, 2 arrow crabs, lettuce coral. <Am surprised your puffers haven't munched on a bunch of the above> I am running a Penn Plax 1200 canister filter for water movement with floss in it. I have an under tank 30 gal refugium that is divided into 3 areas. The first receives the tank water from an overflow box. This first area is where my GS2 skimmer sits. The center area is the live area and houses live sand, a few pieces of live rock, 3 snails, 1 chocolate chip star (moved from main tank because he was eating corals). In the final area is where my return pump sits. It is rated at 700 gpm. My lighting is done with an Aqualight pro with 150 watt HQI and four 96 watt PC. All stay on approx. 10 hrs daily with moonlight at night. The refugium is lit when the main tank is off with a standard 20 inch fluorescent. My water is tested at Bert's Pet Center, my LFS in Portsmouth Ohio. All they tell me is that the water is ok! <Mmm, I'd invest in my own (decent) test kits... keep a log...> I do a 15 gallon water change every 10 to 14 days. I recently added the dogface, a powder blue tang, and a Sailfin tang. <Sans quarantine? Ugghh!> Within 24 hrs the powder blue developed small white spots and was dead within the next 48 hrs. Now the Sailfin tang has the same spots but his fins are also being digested by something. <... trouble> No other fish appear or act ill. This is the second set of tangs I have tried to introduce and have developed this problem. Can you help to identify this and suggest possible solutions? Thanks, Kevin <Umm, your system has Cryptocaryon... Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm then on to the linked files above... You are faced with some straight-forward choices. To ignore your present situation, and largely also avoid adding any new fishes... or... going the other extreme, taking the tank down/apart to separate invertebrates, fishes, treating the latter, letting the remainder go w/o fish contact... Bob Fenner>

Re: fish swimming vertical 12-20-05 Thanks for your advice. <Glad to help.> I should mention that the fish wasn't skinny and wasting away at all as you would normally see with an internal parasite. It is now struggling to swim at all and it seems as if the bottom half of the fishes body is paralyzed. It does try to eat when I feed it, but it has a hard time getting to any food. Do you still think this sounds like an internal parasite? If so what is the treatment of choice for this? I'm pretty sure the wrasse will not make it, but want to be prepared in case any of my other fish get sick. Is there any possibility that fish was collected using cyanide if an internal parasite could be ruled out? I have done a little research and thought that this could be a possibility. <The stringy white feces screams internal parasites. As I stated previously, the secondary infection is most likely a bacterial infection of the swim bladder. To treat the internal infection I suggest a medicated food. The bacterial infection will be a bit harder to clear and will require some research here and on the web. Without seeing your fish I really can't give you a magic bullet or medication name to use. Here is a link to get you started on treating the swim bladder issue. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisfaqs3.htm Travis> I really appreciate your help. Thresa

Harlequin Tuskfish plus 12/13/05 Hi Bob, it's Patrick <Hello> I have a question to ask you and none of the pet stores I have asked know the answer. About a couple of weeks ago I received a mail order of saltwater fish. I have a couple of saltwater fish tanks one 75 gallon one 30 gallon and a 10 holding tank. The 75-gallon tank has been set up for along time but there were no fish in it for about two months. The 30 gallon tank was all ready full so all the other fish had to go in the 75. There was a raccoon butterfly, Naso tang and a Harlequin tusk. I put all 3 in a bucket and acclimated them for about 3 hours. <... no quarantine...> They all were going right into the 75 because there were no fish in there and the 10-gallon was too small for all of them. After I put them in the tank I noticed the raccoon butterfly had ick so I put him right in the 10 gallon. <... too late... the system has it> I left the 2 others in the main tank for now. About two days later there was 2 spots on him. So I decided to set up another 10-gallon tank and put the tusk in it to treat for ick. The Naso went in with the raccoon. The Naso tang died 2 days later. I had not had much success with ick I have tried copper, which has killed my fish and I hear that copper can make tusks go blind. I also have used reef safe produces, which don't work. <... agreed> I decided to try hyposalinity because I heard it works good and I have never tried it before. I started to lower the salinity down a little at a time. Half way thought the raccoon died. Now the only one left is the Harlequin tusk. Now I have the salt level to about 1.012 and during this time the cheap heater I have started to go crazy and temperature was going up and down which I now is not good. So finally I got the temperature to stay around 77 degrees. But now the tusk just sits behind the rock in the bare tank with his mouth open and is not as active. He is not eating and is breathing pretty hard. I know he is stressed but I don't know what to do. The salinity is almost at 1.009 where it has to be for hyposalinity but I am not sure if I should keep going down to 1.009 or if I should bring the salinity back up slowly to 1.020. I test the ph and the water frequently and everything is good, ph at around 8.1 I just put in the tank a new product made by Kordon which is called Prevent --Ich 100% organic fish disease inhibitor and preventative. It say's to add when fish are stressed or have white spots on them. I really want to save this beautiful creature. Please write back to me so I know what I should do about the salinity and if the Prevent-Ich is something I should be using and also how to get the Harlequin tusk to eat. I am feeding him krill Mysis shrimp and brine shrimp soaked in garlic. Thank you so much and god bless. <... please review what is posted on WWM re Quarantine... the species in question, Cryptocaryon... Hyposalinity. Bob Fenner>

At the end of my rope.... 12-12-05 Hello gang, <Hello, Travis with you today.> I'd like to thank all for your time as this website has been an invaluable resource to me. <We are always glad to help.> However I recently was struck with a problem that I cannot find (an alternate) solution for in your archives. I have a 55 gallon tank with about 70lbs of live rock, some mushrooms, Zoanthids, star polyps, snails and a few hermits. I turn over about 900 Gallons per hour, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, ph 8.3, SG 1.25. The inhabitants are a 2.5 inch yellow tang (purchased before I found your site), a royal Gramma, 2 pajama cardinals (/Sphaeramia nematoptera)/ and 2 Scissor Tail Gobies/ (Ptereleotris evides)./ Everything has been fine for the last month and a half until last night I noticed *ich* on my yellow tang I began to freak out and read everything that I could find on your site regarding treatment, prevention, etc. This morning the yellow tang was covered with ich. <That is not good.> My problem is two fold: 1. I brought this upon myself by not using a tank to quarantine new animals. (I now realize that it is INSANE to not have a "hospital" tank to quarantine new fish) <Glad you realize that.> 2. I allowed a small amount of "store water" into my tank (also INSANE to do this, who knows what is in their water) <Ewwwww....> In any event I now must deal with an ich outbreak, but I really cannot afford to put any more money into this. <Hmmm, I think you might be stuck putting a little more money in this as you are now the sole provider for your ill pets.> I do not have an additional tank to setup and use for treatments. Nor can I afford a tank big enough to house a yellow tang (and his pals) for 5-6 weeks in quarantine plus copper medication and a copper test kit. I really don't know what to do. I've thought about getting a neon goby or cleaner shrimp but that is treating the symptom, not the problem. <Gobies and shrimp will not help a full blown outbreak.> The only real solution is to remove all the fish for 5 to 6 weeks in a quarantine tank but for me that is not an option. I don't want to see my fish succumb to ich one by one. I just don't know what to do. I'd hate to have to leave the hobby so soon into this but I feel I may have backed myself into a corner by not doing enough research in the beginning. Do I have any option other then removing all the fish? <Buy a few ten gallon tanks, a couple cheap heaters, and an air pump. You can treat the fish in those. Rubbermaid containers would also work, but the copper may leach out of the water and into the plastic, so testing would be very necessary. If you are unable to do that, try feeding your fish well and praying. Many fish can fight ich off if their water parameters are good and they are well fed.> At the end of my rope, <Hang in there, Travis> Fred
Re: At the end of my rope.... 12-19-05
Just wanted to give you guys an update. The ich had spread to my Royal Gramma and my Yellow Tang was not looking well. I added a large skunk cleaner shrimp and luckily all traces of ich have disappeared (well symptoms at least). I've switched to a garlic containing flake food and so far so good. <Watch for the ich to return as the cysts fall off to hatch, then return in a higher number. This is not meant to scare you, just a heads up. Besides that, I am glad to hear things are looking up. Travis> Thanks again for your quick help you guys are the best! Fred

What are the Ingredients for Disaster? Ich, Tang Minus Quarantine, & Overcrowding - 29/11/05 Greetings Crew, My 55 gal FOWLR was cruising along just fine until I added a small Blue Tang the other day. Then more trouble, he began scratching on the rocks, but he does not have any noticeable parasites on him. I did see white specks near the bottom of the tank on the glass, just above the live sand. They are moving although my clown fish, trigger fish, and 2 yellow tail damsels seem fine. <Unfortunately your tank is not large enough to support a trigger or this tang. Additionally, to save yourself from fish losses and the resultant heartache, it is important that you quarantine any new livestock in a separate tank or container for at least four weeks before adding them to your system.> The water seems to have these white specks floating all over it too. The population of the white specks is growing fast. HELP.... Is copper my tanks savior? <To rectify the situation, I would remove the tang ASAP to a filtered hospital tank or container, and observe for any parasitic outbreak. Read through the disease and cure sections on WWM (starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm) and be prepared to take action. I would strongly urge you not to medicate your display tank with copper. It's unlikely that you are seeing a cloud of free-living parasites in your water. It would also be a good idea to return your trigger to the fish store as soon as possible (and indeed the tang, if they can isolate it from their other livestock), and read up on marine tank water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and livestock choices.> Thanks, MIKE IN S.F. <Good luck, and I hope you manage to get the situation under control. Best regards, John>

Ammonia and Ich... too much money, not enough knowledge 11/22/05 Hi, I am a new to the hobby, but due to good articles on your site, I set up a 29 gal quarantine tank. I made the mistake of live sand and one small live rock (I will remove these after these fish leave Q tank, they sleep under it and I don't want to cause extra stress) - Q tank cycled 2 months ago, Am=0, Nitrite=0, Ph=8.3., salinity=.24, <Likely 1.024> Gamma UV 15 Watt. I added one 1 inch clown and 6 1 inch blue tangs to Q tank 2 weeks ago (1 tang died w/in 2 days). <Six?> All remaining are eating very well, and swimming with great vigor. Problems: Most of the tangs have white spots & sores and some are rubbing, some are starting to get what looks like acne, am=.4 nitrite .2 pH=8.3 salinity=.23. LFS says to leave tank alone, no water changes for Am or medicine for Ich until fish stop eating and start acting sick. <...? They are acting sick...> I am reluctant to medicate but I feel I will never be able to get them into healthy main (370 gal) tank (0 Am, 0 nitrite 0nitrate Ph 8.3 Salinity .19, protein skimmer, 2 dolphin 3000 pumps) until they are parasite free for a month. <Won't be...> How can that happen without medicating the Q tank & dipping the fish? Thanks for any advice, Monique <... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above... You need to treat these fishes... remove the calcareous material from the Q tank... can use PVC parts instead... keep up with water testing, changing... and treatment and testing (daily)... Read until you understand what you're doing... You don't currently and neither does the shop. Bob Fenner>

Major problem with ich!!! Actually quarantine to prevent... 11/21/05 I have a major problem with my tank. I have a 50 gallon reef system for about 6 months. The filtration is a refugium with Caulerpa algae and some LR with some mud, Euro-reef skimmer, a return pump with about 700 gph, and in the main tank 50 pounds of LR. For the first 3 months I had some damsels which I sold back to the LFS, and put a yellow tang and 2 false percula clowns. Well about a month went by and the all three the fish got ich. <"Got?"... I take it you didn't quarantine any of the fish livestock...> I read on your site about quarantining the infected fishes. <Oh!? Actually before the infestations are moved to main systems...> I tried quarantining the fishes but they still died. I also read on your site to keep the main tank fish free for 4 weeks or more, so I also tried this. After not having any fish in my tank for 4 weeks I thought the ich would have died off by then. <Usually, yes> Yesterday I put again a yellow tang and 2 false Perculas and not only 24 hours later they are covered in ich. <These weren't quarantined either...> I don't understand what's going on, I need some help!!! I have read on your site about ich and I believed to have a pretty good understanding on how ich works. Now since this has happen again I'm lost. HELP! Thanks, Adam <Find yourself... read (again) on WWM re Cryptocaryoniasis... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

The microscopic world, speculations on FW, SW "Dead Sea" effect 11/15/05 Hello again, <Hi there> Jonathan here. Have acquired an Observer III microscope to help me diagnose fish problems where I work. Both of the fresh and the salt. <Another world awaits you> I can do 40x, 100x, and 400x. I'll be getting another eyepiece so I can do 600x for that just a little bigger than 400x. <Mmm, much larger> I've been making dark field / oblique filters to try and see what I see. <... I, not "I"> I don't want to invest in phase contrast just yet, unless I find out there's no other way. Have you ever gotten decent resolution for searching for parasites at 400x with a dark field filter? <Yes> I have to use oblique by slightly moving my filter holder out alignment. That and sometimes giving myself a headache by closing down the iris aperture all the way. I'll be getting a mount for a digital camera, so that I may attach it to the scope. May I send you an video for feedback? <Yes> I may make a website to share my progress with others. <Outstanding> I'll keep learning where I am, and try and take a course at my college to refresh my technique. I might have an opportunity to attend the diseases of warm water fish seminar in Florida. Do you think it would be an improving experience? <Yes> Or that by working in an aquarium store that I'll eventually see most of what they would show me. <Oh no... a very good idea to have both experiences to draw from> Two recurrent problems, which may even be related, in salt; is possible Brooklynella running loose and cloudy eye. Coppersafe is at half dose continuously. Brook is said not to be affected by copper sulfate, which would make sense. The way it looks on the fish is very much the description in books and internet. Have scoped a few scrapes, but I'm too new to say "that's it". I'm taking action against it, but victory is not yet reached. [course of action is freshwater baths sometimes with Meth blue 7 -15 min.s every 3 days about, but return to the same tank. I can't pull a clean tank out of the air, <...? But you can buy a scope?> and by corporate all tanks need to be full, ha. I could shut off a tank from the central, remove the copper, and hit it with Rid Ich+, which I'm considering, if my bath approach is not getting results..] <Shotgun approaches are not encouraged> Would it be possible that ich or velvet could be present in the gills of new fish at such a level to cause death without being present at all on the body & treating at half dose of copper is not enough to solve the problem? <Yes... a therapeutic dose is just that... less than is more harm than good> Its a possibility I just recently considered. I think if I see encysted ich or velvet on a newly introduced fish, its probably just temporary. Until it falls off divides and the copper kills the free swimming stage. Cloudy eye I think is caused by our water. Most things I read linked it to environmental issues. Our nitrate is barley registering on our Jungle Quick dip stick, as accurate as that is. I think we may be exporting nitrate by scrubbing algae, and removing and drying out Cyano infested crush coral substrate. <Your speculation is worthy> So that nitrate would not be an entirely accurate judge of the water quality. Only doing 30 gallons out every week or two, may not adequate in a 900 gallon system. <Uh, no> I think we actually evaporating and topping off more than we are taking out and replacing. I've noted this on a discus tank we had by using a TDS meter. The TDS value was much higher in the tank than the source water like 3 - 4 times. <Like potted houseplants, these tanks need periodic large water change-outs to dilute solids...> Even taking account whatever live plants died or bogwood adds, it gave me a way of showing the problem. Ha, the TDS wouldn't work in saltwater, its over its limit. If hypothetically this we evaporating and replacing say 75 gallons a week, and only did a 30 gallon water change a week. Could this lead to problems? <Yes> Wouldn't over time the whole of water become more mineral rich, and with all the contaminants of the tap. This might lead to a cloudy eye problem. <Agreed> Too much contaminants, too much minerals, too much bacteria supported by those. Any ideas? I've tried to keep this short. Sorry and thanks, Jonathan <Do please learn to/use your spelling and grammar checking tools... a good learning experience. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Dip 11/12/2005 WWM Crew, I have been reading a lot on the saltwater aquariums and I've read about Freshwater dips being done before introducing a new fish into a tank. Although, I haven't quite found anything that elaborated on the subject. Just out of curiosity what does it actually do/help with? What are the pros and cons? Warmly, Ashley <Mmm, please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm and the Related links above. Bob Fenner>

Dog Face Puffer Says "Woof!", Or, How to Bark Like a Big Dog! 11/1/05 Hello, I have had my dog face puffer in a ten gallon tank for about three months. <Abysmal...> This was suppose to be temporary home for him until I moved into my new apartment. The problem with my puffer is that it has been having ick for the past three weeks. <... there is a stress component to all pathogenic disease...> I have been changing the water and checking the pH levels and all seemed fine, but he is not getting any better. I have been feeding him krill, since I've had him and now his appetite is slowing doing down. Please let me know what I can do to help my dog face. Thanks, Jackelyn <Please read on WWM re Cryptocaryon... Puffer Disease... Systems... Bob Fenner>

Disease or Environmental Issue? Making The Right Call... 10/20/05 Hello. <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> First off, I just wanted to say that your site is awesome and a great help to aquarists such as myself. <Glad to hear that you enjoy it! We're happy to bring it to you each and every day!> Now to my problem. I just transferred my fish to a larger 75 gallon aquarium. Yesterday, I noticed that one of my Ocellaris Clowns was acting weird. He was just hanging out on the side of my built in overflow towards the top of the water. He ate normally when I fed. Didn't think much of it until I got home and noticed that he was in a vertical position with his head towards the top of the water. Examined him and didn't see any signs of disease. However, this morning I woke up to find him breathing rather rapidly but still no external signs. From what I have read on WWM, I think that he may have Velvet disease. Is that correct? <Well, rapid breathing and lethargic behavior are some of the symptoms associated with Amyloodinium (Marine Velvet). However, the fact that the fish ate when fed is encouraging. Before concluding that you're looking at a disease, do a couple of quick water tests just to assure that you're not looking at an ammonia spike or some other environmental lapse. If you are convinced that you're dealing with a disease, then I'd recommend removing the fish for further observation. Although rapid "medical" intervention is critical with this disease, you don't want to begin a potentially rough course of treatment (copper sulphate or formalin-based products) until you're 100% certain that you're dealing with Amyloodinium.> I plan on going home at lunch to set up the quarantine tank (12 gallon Eclipse). After work, I will probably give him a FW bath but nobody in Santa Fe that I have found sells Methylene blue. Should I just use buffered FW alone or is there something else I need to add to the bath? <Buffered freshwater is just fine; Methylene blue is not effective on parasitic diseases, anyways.> As far as treatment in the QT, what should I use? <I would use a commercial copper sulphate medication...assuming that you ARE dealing with Amyloodinium, of course. I'd observe the fish carefully for a few more days to be certain that it's a disease.> What should I do with the rest of the fish in the tank? None of them show any signs of distress. However, I don't want this problem to repeat itself. <Agreed. If this DOES turn out to be Amyloodinium or Cryptocaryon, then you definitely would want to "fallow" your tank, removing all of the fishes to a separate tank for observation or treatment (if necessary). The display would sit without fishes for at least a month, to deprive the parasites of their hosts (your fishes). Read up about this technique on the WWM parasitic disease FAQs.> I guess I could let the tank go fallow for a month but I am little concerned about the stress on the fish from another move so soon. They have only been in my tank for a couple of weeks. I have an old 45 gallon Eclipse that I could use while I let the tank go fallow. <A good idea, if you go this route.> Please advise. Thanks, Matt <Well, Matt- I'd follow the above-outlined ideas until you're certain what you're dealing with here. Exposing the fishes to a potentially aggressive (and possibly unnecessary) course of treatment is not a good idea, so proceed with caution. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Cleaning/Sterilizing Tanks/Equipment - 10/11/05 Ok thanks. What about the plants, heater, airstone, filter, and whatever else was in the tank before? Is letting them dry enough, or should I get all new? <<I don't see any need to replace. Give everything a wash and rinse in the bleach solution as described for the tank. EricR>>

Marineland banks in my store...Trouble.. 10/3/05 HI all, I recently (February 05) bought a LFS, It has 26 (4) foot Marineland (mars) systems in it. Half are fresh the other are salt. The problem is that even with the recommended daily, weekly maintenance that they (Marineland) recommend I am suffering a great number of losses in my saltwater systems. (over 1000.00 last month) <Mmm, might be your livestock source/s, your acclimation protocol... but I am not a fan of these holding systems... too feeble filtration wise, not easily improved...> I have tried everything they (Marineland) recommended (new uv lights, CopperSafe, frequent pad changes, etc, etc). I have been keeping reefs for over 15 years very successfully, <Stores... are very different... as you're finding out> I currently have a 300 gallon reef in my store that has every kind of coral in it you can imagine including Goniopora and elegance that are both reproducing and have been for over two years, along with reproducing pipefish on a regular basis. So I am no beginner to keeping things alive, but these systems have me a wits end. So this last week I finally got fed up with them and began the 3 day task of replumbing them to a central sump, now this is where I need some advice, I am using a couple of 150 gallon Rubbermaid horse troughs for the sumps. The reason That I replumbed them is that I don't think that there was "enough" biological media for the constantly changing fish loads. <I agree> What could I use as a very large and stable biofilter? <The best... a fluidized bed... but a good deal of substrate (if you're not running copper) or plastic media will do> I am considering wool and DLS material wound tightly together in the new "sumps" to create this biofilter. Is there something you would recommend other than this? <Yes... the above... what you propose create their own problems... of nutrient accumulation, its ill effects> I am hoping to keep as much life as possible in these systems, I would love to be able to keep snails and crabs in these banks as well as fish, I am currently transshipping my fish and corals. The people I ship through have recommended that I use "QuickCure" in my systems on a Saturday so it will stabilize my systems before my shipment arrives on Mondays, <Formalin and copper... dangerous, toxic...> But I am wondering if this QuickCure is "safe" to use in a system like I have setup, <If too much... will kill your filters, livestock> I am pretty sure if I use this method I can't have inverts because of the chemical makeup of the quick cure, But it will help the fish correct? <Mmm, possibly... how to put this... humans used to treat themselves with mercuricals, arsenicals... was toxic to them, but hopefully more toxic to what they wanted to be rid of> Also could I put liverock in the sumps to help with the bioload? <... not with copper, or copper/Formalin, no> I assume not if I use the QuickCure. Is there something out there I can use that is safe for inverts as well as treat the fish I receive for disease? <No> Sorry for all of the questions but I am just a poor hobbyist who has put his entire life savings into following his dream of owning a LFS. I am in need of some sound advice from a non commissioned third party with the same passion for aquatic life...Thanks <Do you have an equity partner who is "there", on the floor? I would get one... quick... so you can invest some time learning the trade (perhaps by traveling, visiting wholesalers of livestock)... There are sections on WWM re retail, and elements like "Guerilla Acclimation" that you should read, take to heart... QUICKLY! I realize it is difficult (with day to day, moment to moment work, crises...) but you need to rid your systems of the problems they have (inherently, like the filtration... I would add substantial UV here... and a strong protocol for net, specimen container sterilization between uses...), and the infested systems as they exist (likely systematically coppering... or if more practical, bleaching/nuking and starting over... by section), and prevent new troubles (by careful buying, dip/baths, acclimation)... Not easy to do, but absolutely necessary if you're to stay in business. Look to "better suppliers" if you have doubts on this part of the equation... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World... to name a few LA outfits. Bob Fenner>

Vague questions about important marine disease issues 10/2/05 Hey, Kristen again. Now since I am using copper in my 25g QT tank, the levels went up (slightly nitrite a little over .25 and same with ammonia). My raccoon bf is still breathing heavy and I did two 30% water changes and the levels won't decrease at all. I was thinking of going out and getting a filter pad with carbon and sucking all of the copper out since I don't see anymore spots on him (although he's still twitching). Do you think this is a good idea? <Not if the treatment isn't complete...> And approx. how long will it take the levels to go down to a safer zone after the copper is out of the system? <Possibly a week... weeks> In the future, if the velvet or ick (whichever it was) comes back, am fearful of what to treat it with. All the medications make the levels rise and he doesn't seem to tolerate that too well. Any suggestions? <... this is all posted on WWM> I also, performed two fresh water dips during this treatment. Thanks again, you guys are life savers!! Kristen <Mmm, please go to WWM, read re Disease in general, Parasitic Disease... treatments... until you understand what you're up to. Bob Fenner>

Marine Ich - Read On - 09/17/2005 Hi Crew, I have a 200 FOWLR tank with a blue tang, mimic tang, bursa trigger, Sailfin tang, tomato clown, 2 blue damsels and a yellowtail damsel. I have a wet/dry filter, protein skimmer and a UV sterilizer. I also have crabs and Brittlestars. I noticed about 2 weeks ago that the blue tang was rubbing against the rocks and now about 4 white spots that look like ich has come up on him. I was wondering what is the best way to treat this so I don't affect the invertebrates? <Much is already archived on this topic.... you need only to read, use our site and its search bars. Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm , and the links in blue at the top of that page, and continue here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm . Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Please help, sick fish 9/13/05 We have a 3 inch lei trigger and an emperor angel in a quarantine tank, for what we think was the ich. They were treated with Cupramine and when that didn't work we used Quick Cure, which after 10 days seemed to be working. However now there fins seem to be deteriorating away. The emperor has also developed these nodule growths on fins. White and irregular in size. We are now treating them with tetracycline. The fish store told us to stop the quick cure, and in just one day now the trigger has a salt like spot on his head. We are doing 50-80 percent water changes everyday, and can't keep the nitrites and ammonia low enough (both at .35) We have a suitable filter, however the fish store instructed us on keeping all liverock out. I'm just wondering if these water conditions are stressing them out and bringing on new problems.<Yes, they can> Any help will be greatly appreciated. thank you, <First off, know what the disease is before treating. If it is ich, copper is a reliable cure but should be monitored with a copper test kit. Underdosing does no good and overdosing causes more undue stress and leads to other problems such as copper poisoning. As for the ammonia level, sounds like your QT isn't large enough to support two fish. The large water changes aren't necessary. With a QT large enough, a 10% change daily would suffice. James (Salty Dog)>

Tang disease and wrasse behavior problems 9/5/05 Hello crew, Once again I have managed to get myself into a tough spot. I have a 110 gal tank (3 months old, 40 lbs rock--live and base, 20 lbs sand, wet/dry filter, powerhead. Inhabitants: 2 months dogface puffer, 3 days yellow tang) , a 29 gal (15 months old, 6 lbs live rock, crushed coral substrate, AquaClear filter, powerhead. inhabitant: 1 year Hawkfish, and 14months choc. chip star), and a 10 gal QT basic setup (inhabitant: lunar wrasse-6 inches). My lunar wrasse attacked and killed my damsel last week, they were both in the 110 with the puffer at the time. He then turned his attention on the puffer so I felt it was necessary to get him out of the tank before he killed my favorite fish. At the time I had a tang who had been in QT for 10 days. I made a quick switch and put the tang in the 110 and the wrasse in the 10 gal. I like the wrasse however he can't seem to play well with others. I was going to research the possibility of putting him in the 29 and moving the Hawkfish to the 110. Well today I came home to my yellow tang covered in tiny black spots, there must be a hundred. <These are peculiar to the tang... please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/YellowTang.htm and the linked "YT Disease" FAQs files above...> Now I can't treat the tang nor can I put the wrasse back in the 110. I don't have a day off for 2 days so I can't even consider just returning the wrasse to the LFS. I am concerned about the puffer and tang. I can try to catch the tang for a freshwater dip but I can't isolate and medicate her. Can I try hyposalinity to fight the black spots? <Could... but best to use two nets, remove, dip and place elsewhere... perhaps the 29> There is no way I can put the wrasse back in with the puffer, he is a devil. Any advice would be well appreciated. BTW, water parameters: amm & no2 = 0 all tanks, no3 20 to 30 in QT and 110, less than 20 in 29gal. ph=8.2 all tanks, S.G.= 1.023 in 29 and 110, 1.021 in QT temp= 78 all tanks. All animals are eating well and none have labored breathing. Hope I gave you enough info to help me. Thanks very much. Beth <Read a bit re Paravortex, easily defeated. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Lack Of Info, Infinite Possibilities - 09/03/2005 Hi Crew, <Hello.> My seven fish have suddenly died over the past month including two just last night. They looked fine one day and was dead the next. I checked the water and everything is fine. Are there reasons that can explain my fish's sudden deaths? <An almost infinite amount of possible explanations. Not enough info to go off, here. Please do make use of our site and search tools.> Thanks, E

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