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Rotary drum filter 1/29/16
Fish Room... of towers and bio-balls; not a Geo. r.r. Martin
4/2/15 pH Control in Multi-tank System 10/9/14 a fish room begins. Some reading now! 1/30/14 Retail Holding Systems- 01/15/2012 Retail Aquarium Display Rack - Overflow to sump vs. other
tanks 10/1/12 Multiple display tanks
- using single large sump and single return pump. 12/21/11 Multiple Tank
Chain, pb
10/6/11 Heating Holding
Systems. 2/6/11 Heating and Filtering
a Freshwater Central Filtration System 3/28/10 High Nitrates, comm.,
SW 3/27/10 Cycling LFS holding
tanks 12/1/09 Cycling Large Store
Systems 9/29/2009 Retail central filtration systems 9/18/09 Dear Sir, Thank you for the web site and the opportunity to ask you questions. I have not found exactly what I am looking for, but if the answer is on the web site then maybe you can direct me to specifically the area. <Will try> I have three retail stores and am getting ready to put a holding system in my warehouse. The purpose is to hold fish that are usually "trouble fish" (livebearers, some tetras, goldfish, etc.) that usually need medicating/holding prior to their intro to my retail tanks. <I do agree with your plan, the purposes you propose> Although I am a veteran at retail and have been in business 20 years, I'm not sure what the best way to build some centralized filtration systems. <There are... a few ways to go... with variations therein> What would you do? I have been thinking of about 18 -24 40 gallon tanks. Maybe 3 different systems. <Mmm, yes, or four... just for freshwater... hard/alkaline cooler water... softer/acidic more tropical, goldfish only, non-fishes (plants, invert.s)...> I will only be dealing with freshwater. I am not handy putting things together so I will have to hire it done. I want as easy maintenance as possible I just don't have a clue as far as drilled tanks, pipes and filters. <There are many good inputs here. We/you are fortunate that some of our Crew have extensive experience, current knowledge in this realm. Am going to ask Scott Vallembois in particular to respond more substantially here, as his side-company sells drill bits et al... I encourage you to read as extensively as this project warrants, keeping good notes... I definitely WOULD automate the water treatment and make-up systems (contact filters serviced by others, top-off systems that can be simple mechanical devices), to use good sized ultraviolet filters, after small pore physical... Yes, that will have to be serviced often... Look to the TMC, Vectron line... you can buy these through Quality Marine in LA...> Help. Where do I start. Hopefully you have answered this before and you can direct me to your answer. Thank you for all your help. Michael Hodges, Clawpaws Pet Shops (Pittsburg, KS, Neosho MO and Webb City MO) <Scott, your input please. Bob Fenner> <<Michael, this will be fairly straightforward once the tanks are drilled. Do check out my companies drilling video, this is a DIY way to do it, but it works. http://www.reefercentral.com/drilling_video.html It is even easier with a small wooden template/guide to drill through. You should have no problem finding someone with the DIY type knowhow to drill these tanks for you (it doesn¹t take much know how). Then it is just a matter of plumbing them together into a common sump/filter for each system. Do contact me at my bus. email: ScottV@Glass-Holes.com, we can get you set up with some bits to do the job. Also look into the filtration Bob mentioned above, as your plans come along we will be more than happy to hash out the details with you. Talk soon, Scott V.>> Re: Please help. Svc, frag biz., centralized multiple tank system 8/29/08 Mr. Fenner, <Nate> Im pretty sure i have got the set up figured out. But i have run into a snag... The 75's i have are reef ready and therefore drain from the bottom. the overall height in my basement is 7 feet. Given the amount of space i would like above both tanks means that i cant have the bottom 75 be more than 15 inches from the ground. <A very good idea... too hard to drain... and work on... and folks feet moving by spooks fishes too easily> which would give me 14 inches of clearance above the first row of tanks and 19 inches of clearance above the top tanks. The halides shall be on the top tanks. 2x400 on one and 2x250 on the other. <Mmm, I would NOT do this... insufficient room to get in, about the tops of the tanks... Delete one row...> And so...when i have the bottom 75 15 inches off the ground...so is the drain. and the height of my sump is 24 inches. See the issue here. although the tank would theoretically drain this way, it is traveling against gravity and slowing the flow down significantly. If i were to remove the overflow and drill a whole on the top back, i could have a drain installed there but be pretty simple with a bulkhead fitting. A local LFS has their drains this way but i remember the owner telling me about having problems with flow. If i were to have a pvc-T attached to the backside of the bulkhead fitting and then have about 6-8 inches of downfall to the sump. This is all one inch pipe. <I don't like this small diameter either... Please... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm Oh yes... a bunch...> Instead of purchasing another 70. im going to use a 75 in its place to go above the sump. Have you ever used the MRC-MR-2/3R or the ASM G-5? <Am familiar... see our input re Skimmer Selection on the same Index page cited above... Not a fan of either of these knock off makes> Im debating on those 3. Im also debating on the Reeflo super dart gold or the barracuda gold. The Tunze multicontroller 7095 with 4-8 6055 Nanostream sounds nice too...What are your thoughts my friend? Thanks again! -Nate <Good gear... Posted.... Please... search, read before writing us. Bob Fenner> Central filtration, plumbing 8/21/08Hi I have been keeping marines since the 70's and reefs since 86. <Hey old timer!> I have run multiple aquariums on a central system for many years. I will now be building a large fish room. I am going to be running 18 aquariums on a single central system. In the past I have always provided each aquarium with a individual return branched off of the main pump return line. I was wondering if you have an opinion with regards to changing this set up and instead returning the water to the top row aquariums and allowing the overflow to serve as the return to the second row and so on to the third row with this overflow going to the sump. This would be easier to plumb and more economical as well. Let me know what you think Thanks! Glen <Will make a few general statements here. Overall, I would revert, stick with your first design... for a few reasons: One, the issue of disease transmission. It's much easier to be able to assure that what is going back through your centralized filter is clean, than have water mixed tank to tank. Ditto with controlling flow to and through any given tank... What happens if you don't want so much water in a tank below, but do want it in one above? Having done these sorts of set-ups over many years time, I assure you the individual in/out arrangement is vastly superior. Bob Fenner>Re: central filtration 8/22/08 Hi Bob <Glen> Thanks for the fast response on my question. I agree with your assessment. The truth is your points are the main reason I have always used individual returns in the past, but I was looking to save some money on account of my co project which is the reason I am writing again. Of course it is not worth the few dollars in savings verses potential aggravation <We are in agreement> My co project along with the fish room is a new show tank (no I am not made of money) I was quoted a great price from a large acrylic supplier near where I live on 60 X 120 - 1 inch thick acrylic sheet. <... is this a new standard size?> I was thinking about an aquarium of aprox.10ft X 30" X 30" <... what would the bottom be made of?> This would be largest of any acrylic aquarium I have done so far. Years ago I did work with someone on a glass aquarium that was 10ft X 3ft X 3ft. Do you think 1 inch with top bracing will work with regards to bowing at this height, or perhaps I should reduce the height to 24 inches if better. <Mmm... if this "makes sense" from how it will be viewed... likely fine from walking about... vs. sitting down lower, seeing the tank up high...> Also do you think an aquarium 8ft X 4ft X 3ft is fair for a pair of Bonnetheads and perhaps a couple of rays? <Nope> Keeping in mind of course their adult sizes although they are juveniles right now. Thanks again for the great resource you provide. Glen <Welcome. Thanks for sharing. BobF>
Just introducing myself 5/26/08 Hey Bob, Been talking with Jason Kim from Aqua C and he said I should shoot you an email and introduce myself and my new store going up in North Park. I am opening a new LFS in North Park on 30th and University. The business name is Fish n' Frags. We will be having our grand opening on September 1st 2008, as we are currently finishing up with the build out.<Ahh, congratulations... good name... and welcome to the trade>The tanks are all being custom built by Lee Mar Pet, skimmers and reactors from Aqua C. We will have a 96" x 36" x 22" coral holding tank and a 48" x 36" x 12" grow out/frag tank. Along with that we will have 6 - 24" x 18" x 22" tanks for smaller fish and 3 - 36" x 18" x 22" tanks for tangs/angels. In researching a proper way to run a fish only holding system I'm surprised that I can't find much info. I want to only hold a small amount of fish at any given time to assure I'm only selling healthy specimen. But, with saying that, I can' figure out for the life of me what would be the proper way to set up a filtration system on this setup. <Do look over the Aquatics Business subweb on WetWebMedia.com re... a sump, mechanical filtration (likely a cartridge or two in series) and adequately sized UV is what I would go with... perhaps with at least part of it being live (a refugium). In concert with a routine of dipping bathing incoming fish livestock, this should keep you out of the copper habit... much to discuss> The coral tanks will run completely independent of the fish system, so I would like to medicate the holding tanks. Could you give me any advise as to what I should run for filtration? Should I use a bio balls? <Better to use a bit of live rock... and skip on the standing medications...> I guess I'm just stumped on how to set this up to assure I'm keeping a healthy system for the fish. Any advise or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks Matthew Knoll <Heeeee! Have a bunch to proffer... do feel free to write, call on me if when I can be of service. Bob Fenner out at the end of Interzoo in Germany> A question for Mr. Fenner, FW store... lvstk. sel., sys. 2/1/08 Hi Bob, <Niki> Hope this message finds you well. We are building our freshwater system and are in the process of making 5 or 6 beautiful individual rows. Right now, however, we only have one row up. The issue is that we have several different kinds of fish that require different ph and I'm not sure where to put my chemistry to best suit all of them. <Mmm, from the list provided... there are some brackish water animals... the mollies and dragon goby... that should be put in such... And some broadly more soft, acidic and harder, more alkaline distinctions you could make... Though, if there is insufficient desire/room to have more separated sumps to service them, all others (than the brackish) listed here could be accommodated in near neutral (7 ish pH) and moderately hard water... I would make a few comments... I'd drop the Chinese Algae Eater (Gyrinocheilus)... both the natural and golden variety, too much bad news with its aggressive nature... Am assuming you're aware of differences in temperaments in some of these fishes, the large size of the Pseudoplatystoma... I'd have larger tanks in the upper rows... and likely no smaller than 15-20 gallons below...> Once we have our separate rows up we can make individual systems, but in the meantime would you take a look at my list of fish and make a recommendation? The koi and goldfish are in another system, so they are not in the equation. Right now the parameters are: Temp-78.5 Ph-7.9 <Mmm, a bit high... I'd blend in some "cleaner" water here. Perhaps an R.O. device above/near the sumps...> Salinity-0 DO-101.2 <Dissolved oxygen? Is this a percent of saturation?> NH4-<.25 <Should be 0.0> NO2-0 NO3-25 <I'd keep this under 20 ppm maximum> Thank you so very much for your consideration. Warm Regards, Niki Englerth <I am going to share your list, note with my friend and colleague Neale Monks for his able input here as well. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Hi Bob, it's Niki...again. NO3 in Wholesale Marine Life facilities -11/27/2007 Howdy Bob! Well you did say I could write you when I had a question.<smile> I just didn't tell you I have aloooot of questions. Hope I'm not bugging you too bad. I have an issue with NO3 in my invert system here, <Not unusual... in a wholesale setting> and have found out that there are a copious amount of bio-balls that are in a very hard to reach place. They have not been cleaned in a very long time. I know there are differing opinions on whether or not these are a helpful means of filtration. <In a changeable, large/ish facility with vacillating bio-loads... something like them... or fluidized bed technology is really a necessity. Must have something that can/will rapidly ramp-up to convert nitrogenous wastes. Unfortunately such mechanisms overdrive nitrification... resulting in excess nitrate> I did read through your FAQs but did not find any situation that correlated with mine. I don't like them, personally, I have seen a great number of tanks in my maintenance calls that have been helped tremendously by their removal and subsequent replacement with live rock. <Yes... this has been my experience as well> I don't have any experience with such large systems like ours (8500) <Yes... gallons...> so maybe there is a reason I don't know about that keeps them here, but my suspicion is that they were just designed in the bio-ball hey-day. <This is indeed the case. I was there for all the fits, retrofits of Quality...> My question is this..should I a) Not worry about my around 35-40 ppm of NO3? <Mmm, if it were me/mine... I would try to address, reduce this... Have you spoken w/ ChrisB re your concern here?> b) Rip out all the bio-balls and replace with live rock? keep in mind the bio-ball chambers are highly inaccessible, being underneath the holding tanks. <Yes, I know... requiring the dismantling of all above them. A pain in the keester> I would be concerned with a drain becoming blocked with the live rock. c) Break down the tanks and just clean the bioballs? d) Remove the bioballs and don't add anything? or e) some really obvious solution that is staring me in the face that I haven't realized, which is why I contact the guru's A.K.A. You! <IF there were room, I'd opt for placing LR in some large container (even pressurized like a big Tahitian filter or two) outside the existing... BUT if you're going to take the invert. system apart... the addition/replacement of the plastic media for the LR in part or en toto will likely be a good route to go... and last for quite a few years...> Anyway, I have some pretty unhappy coral (but some very happy clams!). Help? Thanks...you're awesome and way cooler then a bristle worm - Niki <Don't know... have seen some very gorgeous errantiate polychaetes in my time... Cheers, Bob Fenner> to Bob Hi Bob, Thank you for your reply, and yes I spoke with Chris yesterday and he explained to me the need for bio-balls in a wholesale setting. Thanks again for your input. Niki Englerth :) <Ah, good. BobF> Refugium for Shop Setting 09/17/07 Hello Bob and Crew. We were wondering whether we could pick your well informed brains! We are in the process of fitting out our new shop premises, and want to run a refugium on our system. The system is 1000 gallons. What size should the refugium be, and what should the water flow be over it? Thanks so much Claire <Mmm, as big as possible... and perhaps not more than 5,6 times turnover the macro-algae part... You have read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm the second tray down? Bob Fenner> Hyposalinity
together with copper sulphate treatment 8/22/07 Dear
Sir, Your site is the best I have come across on the net. I have
learned lots from your wonderful Site. I have a question. Can one treat
the marine fish while in hyposalinity with copper sulphate? <Can>
What is the effects of copper in such a salinity. <More toxic...>
Regards, Inderjeet Singh <Bob Fenner> Filter Media/Large Commercial Systems 7/5/07 I just found your website while doing research on toxin adsorption. You could spend weeks here; it's great. Since I don't have that much time, could someone tell me if there are lower cost alternatives to using bulk, granular, activated carbon as a filter medium in 2,000 gallon food fish tanks? GAC must be priced for its potential to form diamonds in the future. <Gary, if this is a marine system, you may want to invest in a commercial skimmer. Prices for these are $700 and up. Here is a link to one site, but a Google search should produce many more. http://www.aquatictech.com/skimmers.htm I know of no other media that would be less expensive than carbon, Mr. Fenner may have some input here. You would get a better price per pound if you bought in bulk. You may want to contact some of the manufacturers of carbon for pricing in this regard.> Thanks. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Gary Increasing system volume & Long plumbing runs 1/26/07 After reading the FAQs I have decided to more that double the volume of my systems by placing a large sump and refugium in the garage and plumbing it through my crawl space back to my tank. I will be adding over 200 gallons each to my 120 gallon tank and to my 92 Corner. My main reason for doing this is ease of maintenance, system stability and reducing the risk of spillage indoors. I will have a 100 gallon refugium and 100 gallon sump. <This is a worthwhile cause. After all: The solution to pollution...> However, I need some recommendations. <Can do, pardner.> a) My 92 corner is about 70 ft (horizontal) and about 7ft (vertical ) to the new sump. 5ft of the vertical height is indoors before it gets to the crawl space and then another 2 ft drop over 70 ft to the sump. Will I have a problem in the drain to the sump? <Mmmm... Not a problem per se. You will definitely have a low flow-rate, and there is potential for a clog due to the shallow angle. I am not overly concerned for your system, as the benefits outweigh the potential problems. The reality is that there is a 7' drop, and water will flow. There are calculations available that can help with this setup, but my main focus would be on maintaining a straight and true slope, with no low spots for water and detritus to collect and cause restrictions to the already low flow-rate.> b) I do not think heat transfer will be that big an issue because of system volume and want to consider submersible first is this reasoning valid. <My opinion comes from a service-oriented point of view, but I think pumps should be reliable and low-maintenance. In many cases, that means a submersible pump can do the job. With 70' of hose and an unknown number of turns in the circuit, I am inclined to opt for a high-flow/low-speed inline pump. To address the heat-loss issue you mention, I think it is a genuine concern that two lengths of 70-foot plumbing (Vinyl or PVC?) *will* present a huge opportunity for cooling of the water. System size is a help here, but you have to consider that you may need a spare or pair of spare heaters for redundancy.> If so do you have any recommendations for a reliable, efficient, submersible pump that can pump 1200 gph 7ft vertical and 20ft horizontal through 2 separate returns (my Eheim 1262 wont handle the load unless I get an Eheim per return) <Mmm... was under the impression that you planned to build separate sumps/refugiums for each system, meaning one sump and fuge per tank. Is this a mistake on my part? You did say you would be adding "200 gallons each..."> c) Any Suggestions for raising the height of the skimmer since the Rubbermaid's are over 2ft? I have Euro-Reefs and Tunze's. <Milk-crate?> d) I would also like to have the same setup for my 92 Corner but I am concerned that by sharing one sump for two displays I could increase the chance of disease spreading if I have an occurrence. Is this concern warranted? <Absolutely warranted. *BUT*, I would remind you that under normal circumstances, with proper QT practices, you should be able to avoid undesirable vectors in your captive eco-systems. If it were me, I would research the feasibility of making two separate systems for your needs. > Thanks in advance <I enjoy the opportunity to assist! -GrahamT.> Store filtration question 1/2/07 I was wondering if there is any reason to not use individual filters on retail tanks in a pet shop. <Mmm... mainly the time, trouble to do individual maintenance, including top-offs, chances of metabolite accumulation/toxicity problems... but there are advantages in making more specific water quality per system... and limiting disease transfer> If I have 200 10 gallon tanks, <Mmm, use 15s... can/do "hold" about twice as much as tens... and much easier to "bump up" in terms of biological filtration when adding new livestock> each with a penguin or whisper or something similar, am I missing a major drawback. Drilled tanks with bulkhead and central filtration would seem to be more expensive. Individual tank need could also be catered too as needed. Obviously noise and electricity may be the major drawback. I was just curious of your opinion. Also, this would be just for freshwater. I look forward to your response. Thanks. Bill Blakeman <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/cntfiltbiz.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Saltwater retailer
systems 11/19/06 I'm having a heck of a time find
info on saltwater retail systems. What I'm really after is an
efficient system for growing out various saltwater marine species with
low maintenance. I have a list off about 30 species which are either
breedable or I'm going to make breedable. =) Do you have any info,
pictures, or contacts who could help me out?? Seems like you have to be
in a secret society to get info on them. <Heeeeee!> Thanks
Brandon <There are a few folks that will/can fashion you such a
system... or needed components for such... TMC in the UK, Advanced Aqua
Tanks in LA... many others that fabricate "parts"... However,
I strongly encourage you to "make your own" holding tanks
themselves and devise (design/engineer) your own mechanicals and
controllers... with some help... Best for you to set out, visit folks
in the trade... Perhaps Dick Perrin... Carol and Craig and other
folks/companies in HI... where do you live? Are you adverse to travel?
Cheaper, better by far in my estimation to take this DIY route... as am
sure you'll agree in the not-so-long time frame. Bob
Fenner> Auto top off... both fresh and salt both - 11/13/06 Hello, Many thanks to you at WWM for answering all kinds of questions from viewers on all topics. It has personally helped me greatly in setting up my store. <Welcome> Now that I am set up and actually selling fish (yay!), I have a dilemma I can't seem to locate an answer in a format I can comprehend. It deals with an auto top off system. This is for a retail saltwater fish system that loses freshwater water daily (due to evaporation), and we sell fish (and therefore saltwater) from the same system too. <Okay> Every day I lose about 20 gallons of freshwater due to evaporation (500 gallon system, 30 tanks, central plumbing), in addition to using about 1/2 gallon of system (salt) water for every fish sold. <! This is a lot of bagged water for sure> Of course one day we might sell 2 fish (=1 gallon of saltwater) and one day we might sell 20 fish (=10 gallons of saltwater) Here's the dilemma... I can't seem to figure out how to set up (or what to purchase) to keep the system topped off to the correct specific gravity automatically. I currently use an ATO for my freshwater fish system, but that's limited to freshwater only so no problems there. <A few possibilities> For the saltwater system, it's not the same. If I sell no fish and just evaporate, I fill with freshwater only to correct the SG. If I sell fish, I'm fooling like crazy at the end of a couple days adding some freshwater (for the evaporation part) and some saltwater ( for the fish sold part), and guessing at getting the specific gravity balanced trying to estimate how much water we "sold" that day, to keep the SG balanced. (for reference, the sump is 150 gallons, so daily top off isn't mandatory, but after 2 days I definitely have to refill it) For reference, I have a 150g saltwater container ready at all times in a separate container, as well as a container of RO freshwater. Any help would be so greatly appreciated. I can't imagine I'm the only one with this situation, but I am completely stumped here in figuring this out. Sincerely, Rich <Mmm... you need two such reservoirs... one for "just" freshwater, the other as you already have installed... and some meters For the change in specific gravity/salinity: (conductivity likely, but there are TDS, salinity... that will work) that will deliver (through their linking to/with an electro-magnetic switch (solenoid) drive/valve to add freshwater when this value changes appreciably... For the new seawater level, a more simple float valve will do... Such gear can be purchased directly from companies or wholesalers/etailers in the trade... like Quality Marine, All Seas (not a dot com) MarineDepot, CustomAquatic (.coms). Bob Fenner> LFS business? Centralized filtration holding systems 7/6/06 I am in the process of starting a pet store. I'm looking at having around 300 20 gallon long tanks. My question for you is: how would you go about filtering the tanks? <Mmm, definitely through centralized, recirculating systems, sumps for collective processing, automated make-up...> A drain on the back of the tanks? <This or the bottoms> Is there anywhere on the web or in publication explaining this? <Mmm, a few places. Maybe start here on WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/cntfiltbiz.htm and the linked files above...> I want a fresh water and a salt water central filtration system. <Mmm, need more than this/these... at least a fish and non-fish marine... perhaps a hard-alkaline fresh and softer-acidic fresh... maybe some separate, more specialized systems for the likes of Discus, Brackish, Goldfish and Koi...> I just want open tanks, not the Dutch systems or whatever PetLand or pet supplies plus uses. Any direction you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bill Blakeman <Keep looking around Bill... there are a few good options for gear here... some DIY that are cheaper... Perhaps seeking out folks in your area that have actually done these installs would help you shortcut to plans, possibilities. Bob Fenner> Need information. LFS Central Filtration Help 5/25/06 Hi, I am in the process of starting a marine aquarium .store I was reading you article on centralized filtering systems. You made reference to PSM/PPN Buyers Guide Directory, Where do I get this directory <Here: http://fancypublications.com/corporate/Products.asp> or who should I call to help me design a filter system? <... a few possibilities... there are companies that "do this"... SeaClear, RK2... but most folks do it themselves with some more local help...> I am based in Tampa Regards, Frank Vegliante <Best for you to read a bit re... make up your own mind re the components, their arrangement... look to fit in what size space you have, are likely to have... Install yourself. Having others do this will cost a bunch more, perhaps get you things you don't want, need, nor know how to take care of. Bob Fenner> Re: Multi Tank Systems, Size does Matter 2/2/06 Maybe I should ask another question. <Okay.> I am not set upon the size of the new tank, I could go larger. <As cliché as it sounds, the bigger the better.> I just thought that those sizes would be about right for the three fish...lunare wrasse, snowflake eel, dwarf lion in a FO system. <It would probably be okay but that tanks size is about bare minimum, absolutely no lee-way room (no more fish).> Please correct me if I am wrong, what would you recommend for minimum tank size? <I would rather see something with more surface area than a 90, something in 125 range possibly.> Thanks! <Anytime, Adam J.> Aquarium business 1/20/06 Dear WWM crew, <Yes> I am looking to eventually start a fish store in or around Long Beach CA and go a bit nuts with ideas about a store, even though I still need to complete a solid business plan. So that brings me to an aspect of the setup of the display systems. I would like to have at least 3 display "systems" for livestock, each which may contain one or more subsystem (i.e. maybe saltwater system contains 2 subsystems one for corals and other reef safe critters and fish and one for the big messy predatory fish). So here goes: 1) Fresh - acidic/soft water system for south American species (mostly discus and South American cichlids) 2) Fresh - alkaline/hard water system for African cichlids 3) Marine - self explanatory, possibly the 2 "subsystems" listed above So in your opinion, how crazy do I need to be with regards to keeping all these subsystems segregated by specie needs rather than the physical location and or limits in pumping ability etc? <Mmm, definitely not crazy. RMF>> I would like to do that best for the fish and keep the fish in an environment as close as possible to the natural environment. I know too many pet stores that keep fish in environments not suited for them for the sake of ease. I would like to gain the reputation as someone who cares, because in fact, I do. Besides that, I am all about DIY. Is it worth constructing my own filtration system, shelving, and plumbing etc for each system or is it more cost effective to purchase the display setups a lot of the acrylic manufactures produce. Also, I thought about running some of the filters in some "primer" systems to try to get a head start in the production of bacteria to speed up the cycling process once I get ready to open the shop. Maybe I am nuts, so feel free to tell me so if need be. Thanks in advance for your help. <Paul, lets start by reading the link I've pasted. I think many if not all of your questions will be answered here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm Good luck. James (Salty Dog)> -Paul Marineland banks in my store...Trouble.. 10/3/05 HI all, I recently (February 05) bought a LFS, It has 26 (4) foot Marineland (mars) systems in it. Half are fresh the other are salt. The problem is that even with the recommended daily, weekly maintenance that they (Marineland) recommend I am suffering a great number of losses in my saltwater systems. (over 1000.00 last month) <Mmm, might be your livestock source/s, your acclimation protocol... but I am not a fan of these holding systems... too feeble filtration wise, not easily improved...> I have tried everything they (Marineland) recommended (new uv lights, CopperSafe, frequent pad changes, etc, etc). I have been keeping reefs for over 15 years very successfully, <Stores... are very different... as you're finding out> I currently have a 300 gallon reef in my store that has every kind of coral in it you can imagine including Goniopora and elegance that are both reproducing and have been for over two years, along with reproducing pipefish on a regular basis. So I am no beginner to keeping things alive, but these systems have me a wits end. So this last week I finally got fed up with them and began the 3 day task of replumbing them to a central sump, now this is where I need some advice, I am using a couple of 150 gallon Rubbermaid horse troughs for the sumps. The reason That I replumbed them is that I don't think that there was "enough" biological media for the constantly changing fish loads. <I agree> What could I use as a very large and stable biofilter? <The best... a fluidized bed... but a good deal of substrate (if you're not running copper) or plastic media will do> I am considering wool and DLS material wound tightly together in the new "sumps" to create this biofilter. Is there something you would recommend other than this? <Yes... the above... what you propose create their own problems... of nutrient accumulation, its ill effects> I am hoping to keep as much life as possible in these systems, I would love to be able to keep snails and crabs in these banks as well as fish, I am currently transshipping my fish and corals. The people I ship through have recommended that I use "QuickCure" in my systems on a Saturday so it will stabilize my systems before my shipment arrives on Mondays, <Formalin and copper... dangerous, toxic...> But I am wondering if this QuickCure is "safe" to use in a system like I have setup, <If too much... will kill your filters, livestock> I am pretty sure if I use this method I can't have inverts because of the chemical makeup of the quick cure, But it will help the fish correct? <Mmm, possibly... how to put this... humans used to treat themselves with mercuricals, arsenicals... was toxic to them, but hopefully more toxic to what they wanted to be rid of> Also could I put liverock in the sumps to help with the bioload? <... not with copper, or copper/Formalin, no> I assume not if I use the QuickCure. Is there something out there I can use that is safe for inverts as well as treat the fish I receive for disease? <No> Sorry for all of the questions but I am just a poor hobbyist who has put his entire life savings into following his dream of owning a LFS. I am in need of some sound advice from a non commissioned third party with the same passion for aquatic life...Thanks <Do you have an equity partner who is "there", on the floor? I would get one... quick... so you can invest some time learning the trade (perhaps by traveling, visiting wholesalers of livestock)... There are sections on WWM re retail, and elements like "Guerilla Acclimation" that you should read, take to heart... QUICKLY! I realize it is difficult (with day to day, moment to moment work, crises...) but you need to rid your systems of the problems they have (inherently, like the filtration... I would add substantial UV here... and a strong protocol for net, specimen container sterilization between uses...), and the infested systems as they exist (likely systematically coppering... or if more practical, bleaching/nuking and starting over... by section), and prevent new troubles (by careful buying, dip/baths, acclimation)... Not easy to do, but absolutely necessary if you're to stay in business. Look to "better suppliers" if you have doubts on this part of the equation... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World... to name a few LA outfits. Bob Fenner> Retail Fish-Only Tank And Nitrates - 05/28/05 I have a fish only tank, 150 gal. with a 2" CaribSea sand bed, PM Bullet 2 skimmer, and T5 lighting, heavily stocked. What can I do to keep my nitrates down? This tank holds fish for retail so I want to keep the conditions as best as possible. <<Mmm...gonna make a couple assumptions here. Since this is a retail sales display, reducing the stocking level is probably not going to happen, and for the same reason, adding a quantity of live rock is also not feasible (makes it too difficult to catch the fish). Depending on the grain size of the substrate in this tank and the fact that it is only 2" deep, as well as you stating the tank is "heavily stocked," I suspect this to be a large part of your problem. So...my first recommendation would be to remove the substrate to allow you to easily siphon out (weekly) accumulated detritus. Else, increase the depth of the sand bed to a minimum 4" (6" would be better) and employ DSB methodology to help with the nitrates. A simple keyword search on this site will yield much info on deep sand beds (DSB)...as well as on nitrate reduction for that matter. The addition of a sump packed with live rock and/or a vegetable refugium with a DSB, along with very frequent large partial water changes, will also help keep nitrates down.>> Should I use a denitrator coil? <<I don't have any first-hand experience with these, but my research on them in the past has shown them to be "fiddly" to get/keep working effectively and thus I choose alternate methods for nitrate reduction.>> I do not know where to find a good set of plans to make one! <<Really? A simple GOOGLE search yields lots of possibilities. A good place to start is ozreef.org>> Or is there a better suggestion that you would have? <<Yes, as stated previously.>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks <<Regards, Eric R.>> Retrofitting A Large System Greetings friends at WWM! <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> I have a couple of issues I was hoping to get some help with. The first is a fish health issue. I own a pet store, and recently we have had a major fish loss epidemic. The two systems in question are 200g tanks (DAS). One unit is 2 75g open tanks, 50g sump; the other is a 75, 15, and 2 30's with 50g sump. I am not sure if you are familiar with the DAS systems, but we are using the stock filtration and skimmers. These are two fish only systems, with a couple inches of sand fake corals and maybe 75 or so lbs of "reef" (dead) rock dispersed in each 200g unit. pH varies slightly always above 8.0. Ammonia and nitrites are nonexistent at all times. Nitrates stay at around 10ppm. One of the tanks was treated with copper about a month ago, which we removed with Purigen after we killed the ich. We use carbon constantly, and do a 10% weekly water change with RO/DI water. We buy from Quality Marine, and SDC primarily. We buy more expensive higher quality stock from "good" seas whenever possible. We presently have no QT system. We freshwater dip all fish that come in. <Sounds like good procedure; a quarantine system would really take things to the next level!> Our reef tanks, and other invert tanks have been doing phenomenally (better than ever really). So the problem is this: In the past 10 days we have lost the following fish - Longnose Butterfly, Pinstripe Wrasse, Copperband Butterfly, Naso Tang, Lemonpeel Angel, Raccoon Butterfly, Auriga Butterfly, Regal Angel (RS), Lawnmower Blenny, Watchman Goby, 5 Lyretail Anthias, Thornyback Cowfish, Red Coris Wrasse - give or take, that's what I can think of off the top of my head. <Horrible to hear.> 75% of these fish have been fat, eating, healthy and (relatively) longstanding citizens until the night that they died. There have been three bouts of death, where we lost 4-6 fish dispersed amongst the individual tanks overnight. Several of them had rather odd marks on their bodies before or after death. The Naso had large black splotches that showed up the evening before he died. The Lemonpeel had a swollen mouth, that looked kind of bruised. Many of them in their death looked oddly bruised. I would blame it on foul play without a second thought if there was anybody left to point the finger to. Survivors include: a 2.5" Flame Hawk, a 3" Longnose Hawk, a 1.5" Porkfish, a 3" Xanthopterus Tang, 3" Vlamingi Tang, and a Lizard Blenny. Within this same time period we have had a really nasty Cyano outbreak as well, for what that's worth. I'm at a loss...and appreciate your input! <Wow...really hard to say. The rapidity with which these deaths came about makes me think that we may be looking at some sort of very virulent parasitic disease. The other thought would be some sort of environmental lapse, but it seems odd that such a large cross-section of relatively hardy fishes would be affected. The same goes for some sort of poisoning episode...Why would only a few fishes perish? I guess the other angle to take is to look at the source of the fish. Were they all from the same wholesaler? did they all arrive about the same time? Did any customers report similar rapid deaths of fishes during this same period of time? Unfortunately, you're going to have to ask yourself a lot of questions to get some good leads on this one...> Second on the agenda. I have a customer with a 300g tank that I am taking over for them. The tank is now sitting fallow while we let ich die out, but they are patiently waiting for me to "make their tank beautiful". The husband likes oddball fish, and the wife wants a reef. They are paying me for a monthly to maintain it for them, and I REALLY want to put together something that works for them. I have never had any practical experience with a tank of this size, aside from when I pulled out all their fish. <That's not a fun experience at all, huh?> Right now they have standard fluorescent lighting, 100 lbs of dead rock, 80 lbs of live rock, a modified UG filter that is drained into a Red Sea canister. It's acrylic, stand and canopy included. I pulled out a dozen or so Damsels, a mean Wrasse, and a few other fish that managed to survive their reign of terror. They said they spent 15 grand on their setup at their LFS (rip-off?). <For a 1970's-1980's type filtration system and fluorescent lighting, I'd say that they may have overpaid somewhat!> They have given me a no-limit clause. No price is too high to pay for beauty, so as long as what I'm doing is necessary...just do it and send them the bill. I really don't want to take advantage of them, and I really want to make sure that whatever I do is really the best thing for them. I have only been doing salt for a year and a half, and reef for a year. I read a LOT, and deal with many many tanks so I have a lot of progressive experience, but I still feel rather limited in my capabilities. <Well, coming here is a good start! As you are aware, we have a lot of great information on marine/reef keeping here. I think I would start by re-assessing the equipment in the system and seeing what is truly effective. If your goal is to have a mixed fish/invert system, I'd shy away from the mechanical/UG filter setup and consider a simple sump-based system, with an excellent protein skimmer. A refugium is optional, but would be a nice feature. Better lighting is in order, too. I think that you really need to sit down with the client and find out exactly the kinds of animals that they want, and design and retrofit the system accordingly. They also need to be aware that a pretty reef-type system does not happen overnight; it takes months and years to grow into something truly amazing. As you are no doubt aware, it's not possible to simply dump tons of money into a system and expect a world-class system overnight. It takes time. patience, and dedication.> Can a reef be maintained long term with only once a month for heavy duty maintenance/water changes? <It can, but you need to pay careful attention to stocking and daily husbandry, such as feeding, etc.> If so, what kind of corals would be most conducive to success and beauty on that scale? <There are so many to choose from that I can't even begin to name them here. I suppose that soft corals, such as Sarcophyton, Sinularia and the like would be a hardy bunch to start with. Do some more reading, both here and in texts like Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals" and Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation"> With the tank filled, and maybe 2.5" between it and the wall...any super secrets to increasing water flow without using powerheads or moving the tank? <A manifold-type return system from a closed loop might fill the bill. There are other methods, such as using devices such as Sea Swirls to oscillate the return flow, or even external powerheads, such as Tunze Turbelles, which move huge volumes of water with little electrical consumption and minimum aesthetic compromise.> The UG/Red Sea canister combo seems quite crafty to me...but I don't know about function. There is a LOT of particulate matter casually drifting around the tank. <Sounds like it may not have been the optimal size for the system, or perhaps husbandry was not top-notch in this system. You'd be surprised how efficiently sump-based systems can remove suspended matter through simple settling within the sump, or with minor prefiltration features. Do read up on this.> Should I utilize the available plumbing for a sump, skimmer, fuge, or closed loop? <Obviously, you want to optimize what is there to save your client money, but you may need to do serious re-vamping of the system to make sure that everything is appropriate for the animals that your client intends to keep.> I will leave it at that for now...there will be more to come in the near future no doubt. Thanks for your help :) Scott Johnson Critter Cabana <MY pleasure, Scott. Sorry I couldn't give you absolute answers in this space, but I hope that some of the basic concepts that we touched on will be of use to your client. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> System for Fish at new facility
Hi Crew <JD> I just moved to a new, larger facility here in
Jakarta, and have some concerns over my fish system. <Okay> I
sell local Indonesian fish, which are notorious for disease, purely to
bring in customers. <Understood> My main line of fish however,
are imports. I hold the only valid license for Indonesia,
and receive shipments from Brazil and Red Sea once a month, and Hawaii
twice a month. Most of these fish are then passed on to 2
wholesalers who distribute to a few selected shops. The rest I keep for
retail. <Sounds good> I think I may have tried to be too clever
when building my system for fish, and might even have overdone it. I
have 60 tanks, which are 4ft by 2ft by 18 inches
tall. These are 3 high ( 20
racks). The back 8 inches of each tank, is
full of bioballs, topped with biofoam, and spun Dacron at the top to
trap larger debris. <I do hope you watch your pH, alkalinity with
all this> The water enters the top tank centre (I'm from
UK), quite powerfully, with lots of surface
movement. It then drains through the large trickle filter
before becoming the water that feeds the middle tank, then filters
again becoming the water for the bottom of the 3 tanks, before
filtering again and going to the sump, which is full of crushed coral,
biorings, and active carbon. There is a small skimmer in the
sump, but unfortunately not too effective. So you can picture 20 racks
like this side by side, with 60 trickle filters, and 20 sump filters.
<Yes> I designed this to stop the spread of disease, but in
hindsight, and reading several articles regarding centralizing the
filtration, I am a bit confused. <Go ahead> The waters around
Jakarta are not good quality, and there is a lot of bacteria and I am
sure, other pests. <Yes... I have been to Jakarta many times...>
I get my water from the Seaworld facility, which is known
to be the cleanest, but think it is not the premium grade filtered
water, but the water after the dolphins have "passed" through
it. <Yes> My facility for receiving new water is 1500 gallons,
which circulates through a sump, which has UV, a reasonable size
skimmer, and a Sander 100mg Ozonizer running. <I would get a much
larger Sander's unit... and a dryer for same> during the day,
although the outside temperature is over 30 Celsius, the
open front allows for good circulation, the water temp is
about 28.....however, at night, when closed, with no air circulation,
it becomes very hot in there, and the water can rise a couple of
degrees overnight. I am planning to remove the shutters, and
replace with some sort of "bar" gates, to allow
better circulation. <A good idea... you don't want the
temperature to vacillate more than one degree C. in any given day... If
and when it's not too dear, I would invest money in an evaporative
or other type chiller> I have tested the DO at 6pp?, and
believe it is ok. The PH is always 8.1 to 8.2, zero Ammonia,
and Sg of 1.022 to 24 <Not bad... would be nice to have the water a
little higher in DO... 7 ppm... not likely possible at high temp.>
However, I do get outbreaks of whitespot, and occasional velvet. <I
do hope you have adopted, adapted a routine pH-adjusted freshwater
dip/bath procedure, pH-adjusted acclimation... for avoiding these twin
scourges... Please read on WWM re this issue... Easy to do, and can
spell the difference between profitability/sanity and ongoing madness,
losses> A friend of mine who exported fish for many years, tells me
I should be joining some of the sumps together, using a bigger
skimmer,...and using a "Heater" to keep the water at 30 -31
C at all times........I need some reassurance on
this....even though I tested the DO at 30 to be fine....... <Mmm,
the DO is not 30 assuredly> The other thing is, the top two tanks
have no substrate, but the bottom on has a little crushed coral for the
wrasse etc.,....should I remove this ??? <What other source of
alkaline reserve do you have? Do you monitor this? Do you sell
invertebrates, particularly biomineralizing species? > To avoid
customers' kids putting their hands in the water, and also to
prevent jumping of fish, I built a frame for each of the tanks, which
is a medium fine plastic mesh, but it is built into
aluminium ...please advise me on the possible effects of the
aluminium.( no aluminum over here) It never touches the
water, it is 3 to 4 inches above it. <Good idea> I look forward
to your suggestions on how I could improve this system. If I really
need to centralize everything, I guess I can, although there would be a
little disruption to day to day activities. regards JD <I
definitely would centralize your filtration, with large skimmer/s....
Mmm, I would rig a very large one inabouts the large sump... per
sub-system if there is more than one. Do read the Business subweb of
WWM re such... Bob Fenner> Central Filtration Systems Hello crew, <Good Morning> I just open a store and was having trouble with the nitrite and nitrate. I have use this site to answer a lot of my question in the past, but I have a problem that I can't seem to solve. Well let me tell you a little about the system: it is a saltwater system that have 14 - 50 gallon tanks and a sump of about 300 gallons and right now the parameter are 0 ammonia, .10 nitrite, and nitrate is off the chart, pH is 7.8 KH is 7. I am using 3 skimmers not high quality, but works ok. And two 36 watt U.V sterilizer by Tetra. I am currently using a central filtration system that I build. Each tank flows into a 1 1/4 inch piping and flows down to a sump. In the sump I have 500 lbs of live rocks. And the system been up and going for about 2 months. The system seems to be steady right now with the nitrite of .10 and was wondering how I would be able to bring it down to 0. I [was] wondering if it would be better to increase the flow so it would be running really fast or should I slow it down. Right now it is at maximum that the piping can handle. Also I have power heads and air pumps in the sump to circulate the water in a rotating circle (OVAL) shape. If you can help me out that would be great. <Mmmm, I'm thinking that the live rock isn't fully cured yet, but I'm sure you would be aware of that. I don't believe changing flow rates will change anything, I would want the most flow if anything. If the rock is cured then I would add some damsels into the system and jump start the system. James (Salty Dog)> >>Better to use some raw shrimp, cycle fishless - have known some who have used urine to start/spur such. This will allow for creating maximum nitrifying populations without losing money on the fish. However, cycling is not the problem here, this has occurred (also, know that the live rock will allow better harbor for parasitic organisms, DIS-allow copper/Formalin treatment should it be necessary - unless we're talking about an invertebrate-only system). It is my opinion that this is the point at which large water changes are necessary, and you'll need to get the skimmers working their best, improve skimming. You'll need to plan on future maintenance of this system, treatment for the inevitable outbreaks of disease, live rock will "hold" copper, become dead/base rock instead, re-release such. MH>> Central Filtrations systems Hello Mr. Fenner, <Travis> I am thinking about setting up a reef/marine store and have a few questions about the central filtration system. I am still in the planning stages but I think I have nailed down what kind of tanks I want. I will have ~600 gal SPS, 300 gal clams, 300 gal anemone tank, 600 gal LPS/softies and ~3000 gallons of fish tanks and 300 gallons of fish/invert "cubes". I will be using 4' X 8' 12" tall tanks for the corals and some combination of 8' X 2' X 18" for the fish. Anyway, the real question is can each of these systems use a true central filtration system or should the fish be on there own system? <Don't know if I'm following your question, but I would definitely have the fish system separate... even though you may well find yourself putting certain groups of fishes (e.g. centriscids, syngnathids, Clownfishes...) in your invert. systems> Should the SPS be separate from the soft corals and/or anemones as far as filtration goes? <Yes... I would do this> Are there any species of fish that would benefit from their own filtration? <Mmm, actually... yes... but... I would move these into parts of your non-fish systems... this will work itself out in time> Ideally I would like one system for low cost/maintenance but that may not be feasible. <It is not... for sure> Your guidance is appreciated. Any books you can recommend? Thank you, Travis <Hard to say w/o knowing you better... there are some engineering, design works whose content you might well benefit from understanding if you don't know the information already... I do hope you have at least one good (equity) partner for your venture... and I do encourage you to read over the materials archived on our Aquatics Business subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm I am very glad to see folks coming into the trade, building out new stores. Do proceed carefully, but know that I'm rootin' for you! Bob Fenner> The Death System! (Not a Lucas Production) Bob, Anthony, Steve, somebody... please help! I'm a saltwater manager of a store in Texas and I and my coworkers are at our wit's end. Let me give you the run down. I've got a marine system run through central filtration consisting of four large tanks totaling @ 1000 gallons. The idea was to have a system for larger marine fish like angels, groupers, sharks, etc. It is filtered through felt bags into a sump, with a six foot tall Precision Marine protein skimmer, through which I dose ozone with an Ozotech. I'm also using a 160 watt ASM UV sterilizer. For bio-filtration I've got a six foot tall fluidized bed and live rock in the tanks and sump. Two to three hundred gallon water changes are done weekly. <Sounds good thus far> Here's my problem. Almost every "bony" fish I put in this system gets "the funk" and dies. The funk generally consists of cloudy eyes, white spots, white patches, gaping mouths, and white body film. Basically every fish within a week or so, whether they are feeding or not, just starts looking nasty and dies. And not every fish experiences all these symptoms. It may be just one or all of the above. However, rays, sharks, and eels all thrive in these tanks for months at a time, until they sell. <Good clue here> Everything else, just about every other marine fish family, dies. In desperation I looked through you guys site and found info on dipping, so I began dipping new fish. I'm using per 5 gallons one oz. Formalin, 8 drops Methylene blue, and 8 drops Stress Coat, and it's worked wonders for fish in my other systems. Loss dramatically decreased in my other systems, but not this one. <The "critter" problem is IN this system> I've tried antibiotics, antifungals, tropical science marine max, garlic, kicking, screaming... My other fish only system has the same stats of the big fish system, about the same amount of water volume, same fish suppliers, same dipping technique. The only two differences are no ozone on the other system (this was a problem way before I added ozone), and occasionally I dose copper, but not often. Typically the copper levels are below therapeutic levels. <Must be or the cartilaginous, anguilliform fishes would have trouble. No sense dosing sub-therapeutically.> I would love to try and properly acclimate all of these fish in the manner outlined on your site, but I currently don't have enough time\space to do so. And none of the other systems have their fish acclimated and I have no problems. I even went so far as to bleach the whole darn thing and start all over, filters and all. <Good idea... this is what is done even at collection facilities... in desperation with entrenched biological disease or anomalous problems> Everything in the system was brand sparkly new, nothing pre-bleaching even touched the system. For a few months it was a piscine paradise and then... paradise lost. The same crap again. What I don't understand is what is that kills all fish excluding sharks, rays, and eels? <There are a few protozoans, bacterial problems... Not environmental, nutritional... operational source.> All levels in this system test out perfect, ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate<30 ppm, pH is 8.2. I'm absolutely going nuts here. Please help, if not for me, then all these poor creatures! Thanks for your help! <If it were me, mine, knowing what you have presented here, I would dump this system again (bleach it entirely), re-introduce microbes from another system to get it to cycle, and be VERY careful on introducing all new fish livestock (through the dip process)... AND might add a visit from an aquatic-minded veterinarian (are you near a public aquarium?), OR ask them to necropsy a few specimens (they'll tell you how to handle, ship them). Bob Fenner> Large livestock holding systems Dear Bob, <Darren> I am
interested in opening a large pet store in San Antonio and was
wondering if there are any books on designing or building a large
holding system for marine fish and invertebrates. I would like to build
a flow through system. I somewhat understand the concept but I want to
get everything right from the beginning and not the trial and error
that I think I will experience on my own. I want the system to be
around 8,000 to 10,000 gallon and on this size I am not sure what to
use for a sump. I am not sure how to plumb everything. I would also
like to leave the option open to add to the system if I ever need to. I
look forward in hearing from you. Thanks in advance for all of your
help. Sincerely, Darren <No set of instructions per se, but I do
want to direct you to two sources that I would use in relating how to
go about what I think you want to do: An old (1973) tome by Stephen
Spotte, "Fish and Invertebrate Culture in Closed Systems" or
his newer Seawater Aquariums: The Captive Environment if you can't
find the former, and Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral
Propagation". With a working knowledge of the theory from these
works you should be able to execute the "real world" of a
centralized filtration. Bob Fenner> Tote that load... if you can find them I read your article titled "Raceway Live-holding Systems". http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/pafarmstks.htm I have been looking all over for the polyethylene tote reservoirs pictured in the photos. Do you know a vendor where I may acquire these? <I just spent a few minutes looking through the Net, my notes... don't see the manufacturer listed anywhere... a few years back were made in the State of Washington... there are at least two "qualities" available... and you don't want the flimsier one if you're going to fill them all the way or use them as combo stands and transit volume sumps. How many do you need/want? If only a few you might do well to look around (are you in Texas? Try Fritz Chemical... they used to have livestock distribution businesses there and likely have the totes stored or know who in turn ended up with them)... otherwise, do check with local fish stores, ask them in turn where they buy their (esp. marine) livestock... and contact those folks in turn to see if they have any "extra" totes for sale... the polyethylene containers aren't the expensive part, it's the shipping... Good luck. Bob Fenner> Re: Raceway Live-holding Systems (totes) Yes, I am in Texas (Dallas). I will check out your suggestions. (Yeah, to start with I only want a few, maybe one.) <Ahh, good. These can be very inexpensive or the opposite... depending on how far away (the freight is more than the cost of the totes) and how many you want/can use> I keep running into the shipping problem... Also the local fish stores do not seem too willing to talk about where they get their livestock etc... Thank you very much for your help! :-) <You might try contacting some of the wholesalers in the LA area if you want to try another source... Some have new ones they sell (All Seas for instance), other folks have used ones (they're fine), for a little less... just the shipping expense... Bob Fenner> Automatic Water Changers Greetings, I have been looking over your site since I discovered it and find it has a wealth of information about fish. I have recently acquired a 55 gallon tank and some fresh water tropical fish, so I appreciate the mass of knowledge your site provides. I hope I am not asking something that has been answered in your "FAQs" though I think they would be more properly titled something else - FAQ implies the same question being asked over and over and so to be answered in a single place, while your helpful section might better be called a log since it sequentially answers questions without grouping them together by subject. Anyway I am not trying to criticize, just point out why I was confused for a little bit there, especially by questions in the FAQ in which as part of your answer you suggest reading a URL which happens to be the same one I am looking at. <Good points. The term "FAQ" is/was a matter of "convention"... though "log" is much more definitive I agree. RMF> I'm pretty much a beginner at owning fish, and so made the mistake of buying too many fish too soon for my tank. (Buying from a discount retailer doesn't help either, they don't know what they are doing much more then you do.) Anyways, I started out with 12 fish based on the calculations the instructions gave me (12 * 4 inches average grown length = 48, 1 inch of fish per gallon) - one fish was killed by another, one got stuck in a bubbler ornament, and two others just up and died, I'm guessing because the biological load on the tank was too great. The rest of the fish weren't eating but I started doing daily water changes of about 10%, which for a 55 gallon tank actually works out to 4 gallons. The remaining fish have perked right up and seem to be doing much better now. Anyway here is my question. Returning the fish to the store is out of the question, and I don't want them to die so I am pretty much stuck with them. But I don't relish the prospect of manually changing a few gallons of water every day or two, especially if I ever need to be gone for a few days. So I started wondering, this "power filter" that sits on the back of the tank requires a couple of filters every 4-6 weeks, and those aren't that cheap. Why couldn't I just set up the tank so that a supply line on my house's plumbing runs through some sort of pre-heater that also mixes the drops of water treatment, and then every day have it on a timer or something so that it (relatively slowly) injects a few gallons of fresh treated water while allowing the same amount to be sent down the drain (with a screen or something to keep the fish from being lost of course). Such a set up would seem to be much cheaper then using a filter and would also eliminate the constant water noise (air pump noises are much more tolerable when trying to sleep). This seems like such a simple logical solution but yet I haven't been able to find anything like this at pet stores or whatever. From looking over the FAQs I see lots of people using sumps, but in this setup there would be no extra tank, only the pump, piping or tubing, and intake regulation of heat and water conditioning. Am I not looking in the right place, does something like this exist, or is this something I would have to do myself? Any suggestions or recommendations? Thanks, Michael Hello. There is a company called Aquarium Products that makes one called the Aquarium Water Changer: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/products/product_auto.html .It has been around for quite some time. Of course, you can always DIY, if you have the talent. You can do a search for automatic water changers, here are a couple of links for you to start with: http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/thielbook/thielbook4i.html http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/water-changer.html I also recommend you do a bit of reading on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, or the cycling process in general. Follow the Beginners FAQ's at thekrib.com. Good Luck -Gwen Loiselle Question from new retailer continued II 10/30/03 That sounds very clever, I like it. One thing that is kind of confusing me... what is a seawater float... is this different than a regular float switch? <ahh... my fault my friend. Not clear. Both float switches are the same... by seawater, I mean that one is hooked up to bleed in saltwater (the coarse, fast-tuned one), while the other (the sensitive slow-tuned one) simply bleeds in freshwater for evap top off. Thus a sharp drop in water level (as from sales and siphoned saltwater) will allow the seawater float switch to top of faster than the FW bleed can make a difference. And the sensitive tuned FW bleeding float can feed FW for slow evap while the SW float is tuned to coarse to even sense the slow drop in water level> And thanks for filling my daily need for Bob. I was getting a little worried when he didn't respond within 60 seconds. <ha! tis the standard we try for <G>> Thanks, Matt <best of luck> Centralized Filtration Systems 10/29/03 I just read your article on Centralized Filtration Systems on WWM. We are looking to open a retail aquarium store in Bombay, India. <very exciting to hear!> Since we don't mind investing a little extra money, but want to do everything right so as to improve efficiency, I think setting up a CFS is a great idea. Please can you tell me where I can get some more detailed information on setting up such a system for our store. We will be having about 30 tanks. <seek the book "Aquatic Systems Engineering" by Escobar (look on booksellers like Amazon.com). It is an excellent book about many aspects of aquarium plumbing and filtration. Technical, but very good> I don't think there is any company in India that offers CFS design and implementation services ( if there is, please let me know) so all the help you can give will be very much appreciated. Thanks, Clive Fernandes <with kind regards, Anthony> Question from new retailer Hey Bob, After a lot of thought, and research, I have decided to go with a custom built system rather than the D.A.S. <DAS systems are nice in appearance... but my experiences with them in the past have shown them (at least at that time) to be lacking in functionality... not able to "ramp up" quickly to larger bio-loads... their filters undersized, not easy to work on or modify.> Which means... I will have plenty of questions coming your way. One thing I haven't really been able to find on your website is if there is how many gallon sump should be used for around 1200 gallons freshwater, and how big a sump for around 100 gallons Marine. That's it right now... but more to come, don't worry. <Mmmm, well, the bigger the better... at least twenty percent of the volume they're servicing... will you have automated "top-off" mechanisms for these sumps? I would plan on at least having faucets handy stubbed nearby> Matt Johnson <Be chatting. Bob Fenner> Cargo Containers - 8/13/03 the link is: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm It is the picture located under "employment opportunities in the trade" their gray plastic or polyethylene tanks. <those containers are airline cargo containers and they are being used to merely support acrylic custom raceways. I honestly have no idea where you can buy the freight containers but have heard that they are very dear to buy and ship unless you have a tight connection. Do consider some local/regional source of plastic like feed troughs, fiberglass coffin liners (seriously), etc. Where availability will be better and the cost to acquire will be less expensive. Anthony> Finding Plastics - 8/12/03 Greetings, I have looked all over the web for distributors of the Polyethylene tote reservoirs and cannot seem to come up with a distributor/producer etc... Could you please refer me to an email or webpage or phone number in which I can purchase these tote reservoirs. Thanks Jeff <Jeff... your decision to purchase any such vessel will be significantly influenced by the cost of freight. You need to find someone close to you. Be resourceful my friend... try agricultural supply houses (feed troughs and like applications), call your local Chamber of commerce for a registry to seek regional manufacturers, look in the famous Thompson's Registry for most any conceivable manufacturing contact you can name nationally. I'm assuming you saw one you liked somewhere or talked to someone that has one you seek/like: ask the name of the manufacturer and then call them for a close distributor. Whew... and if all else fails, use: US Plastic Corp of Lima Ohio as a reference if not a source. Best of luck, Anthony> Seeking Plastics - 8/13/03 Thanks for your reply. I checked out the US plastic Corp in Lima Ohio and checked their tote section and did not see any that looked like the same as the picture of the "fish runs" on the business section of WetWebMedia. I'm looking for those types specifically. <please advise me of what page (send the link) you saw these on and we'll do our best to ID it for you. Best regards, Anthony> Fishroom Filtration - Central? - 8/13/03 I have a scatter of
tanks including from one 100 gallon, 4 55 gallons, 4 20 gallons and 4
10 gallons. I breed Gouramis, platies and Corydoras
catfish. I was wondering if the crew had any recommendations
on a common filtering system - at least for the big tanks. <it is
common and successful practice for better fishrooms to have tanks
drilled and draining to a centralized sump for ease of water changes
and reduced cost of heating and filtering. Each tank will still have a
sponge filter or the like as an aerating feature and to serve as backup
filtration. Do seek some DIY plans on the Internet for
"centralized filtration" for "fishrooms". Visit
some of the message boards and check with your local or regional
aquarium societies too for a chance to visit another enthusiasts to see
their systems... really the best way to learn/plan. Kindly,
Anthony> Retail shop questions I'm starting up an Aquatics retail
shop specializing in marine fish/inverts and freshwater trops. I intend
to run a centralized system for the marine fish with Trickle tower,
sand filter, protein skimmer and UV, a separate system for the
inverts/corals with DSB/LR for the filtration on this and separate UGF
for the freshwater trops to allow for differing water parameters
dependent on species. <if you are running a central system then you
must surely plan on having a QT system to hold all new fishes first.
Else, adding new fishes every week to the central system is a game of
Russian roulette with their lives and your livelihood. The UV is no
guarantee of preventing disease at all. They are moderately effective
under the best circumstances (crystal clean water... ozone daily,
carbon changed weekly, water prefiltered before UV for control of
turbidity, etc). Indeed... please consider QT protocol!> Having been
an avid hobbyist for 10+ years I understand the mechanics of the
plumbing for your average home reef tank but am unsure of the "ins
and outs" of a large centralized system. Can you point me in the
direction of a good book that covers this area ? <yep...
Aquatic Systems Engineering by Escobar> I've trawled the web
without much luck and have searched your excellent site and found quite
a few pointers without getting hold of a definitive "how to"
guide. Should there not be such a book in existence an answer to the
following questions will help greatly: <yep... Pablo's> What
size holes should be drilled in the tanks for the outflow ?
<dependant on desired flow rate. 10X hour minimum for central
holding per tank... so... decide on tank size, X10, added altogether
and find a pump and fittings to match. Very simple, my friend> The
tanks will be on racking of 6ft high by 4ft long with 3 rows of tanks
on each, for the inflow should the water be fed into the top rows,
gravity fed into the 2nd, then the 3rd and finally by gravity to the
sump or should each row be fed independently from the main pump and
drained on each row by gravity to a bottom drain to finally go to the
sump ? <advantages and disadvantages to all such designs. Here, it
is less complicated and less expensive by not having separate feeds and
drains, but is a greater risk for disease transmission. If you do not
QT, I would not do this style> What size pipe work would you
recommend for the input and output pipe work ? <as per pump
size/water flow needed> Sorry for what might seem like basic
questions but it's next to impossible to get local shops to show
you their systems and I want to get everything right first time. Many
thanks Bob, Brian Jones <no worries. Its just hard to be specific
without much information. Do read Escobal's work first and follow
up as necessary. Best regards! Anthony> Just a question (centralized filtration systems, marine) fwded. from FAMA I was wondering if there would be anyone interested in helping me with a question, I recently purchased, through a friend, six 40 gallon and 3 twenty gallon long tanks, built into a rack, with three forties on the bottom, three in the middle row, and the three twenties on the top. I would like to set these tanks up to house various marine inverts, fish, and corals to eventually move to my display tanks through out my house. My question is about filtration. I would like to be able to connect the tanks in a column fashion, meaning there would be the two forties and a twenty connected to the same filtering unit. I would like some advice on the most cost effective, way I could filter these aquariums properly together, I have never had any problems with filtering before, but have never tried in a series such as this. all of my previous tanks have been filtered separately. I would like to know which products may be best for my setup, but I must keep as low of a cost as possible. hoping that you understand the advice I seek, thanks for your time Jay <Please have a read through the business sections of our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm and the associated FAQs file. Specific input on gear can be obtained by way of our chatforum: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/ Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia> Filtration question (store set-up) Needed advice on plumbing tanks for my store. I hope you don't tire of this question. Basically, 40 breeders drilled (4) tanks to each sump. I am using heavy duty shelving and plywood, total of (4) separate systems. I thought it would be easiest to plumb this way plus I like having separate systems. I am going to overflow from top (2) tanks into the bottom tanks and finally to the sump. The sump is where I am unclear. I want to trickle the water over filter floss and carbon (probable PolyFilters too) then through some media probably base rock and then a protein skimmer. <fine for a light bio-load, but you may have to concede to extra biological support from bioballs (nitrate and all) for a heavy fish system> I am looking at the "Euroreef" you wrote about. Maybe best to skim first like you say. <absolutely... catch overflowing water into a skimmer chamber first which then overflows into the sump> Then I want to add a sandbed and Caulerpa (plan to use 55 watt compact). <the Caulerpa is a bit dangerous with a fluctuating bio-load as it's daily needs grow daily and consistently but your stores fish/invertebrate load that provides the nutrients changes weekly with sales and shipments... when the algae goes vegetative, you could lose everything within 24 hours> I eventually will add UV sterilizes. <with wild imported weekly shipments...this is one of the most important devices> Is there a problem if I use a Berlin sump skimmer with it's own pump? <yes... quality of skimmate, fluctuating sump level affecting performance, path of water flow, etc in my opinion> Instead of piping to main system? The tanks will @ 6 feet and @ 4 feet. What is best G.P.H pump and best tank size for the sump? You need to calculate how much flow you want/need in each tank (dependant on the animals kept), then confirm that your overflows can handle it, and then multiply it out. Once you figure that out... I favor Japanese made Iwaki pumps for store use water pumps> For fresh I plan to use air bubbler sponges instead of undergravel. Which do you prefer? <totally agree... sponge filters are the best filtration!!! just a little ugly for some aquarists> Finally, where can I buy Metronidazole? <Seachem makes it... available mail order from most any marine drygoods supplier. Do check with the advertisers on the Q&A page> I seen it for sale in pill form for people. <essentially the same, but with filler...try to find the pet dose first> I apologize for my poor writing skills. I hope I am not killing you with all these questions. I appreciate your help and your web site. It is hard for me to find knowledgeable people who are not cocky and unhelpful lol! Sincerely, BKL Ps- I hope all is well! <no trouble at all.. you will make the very best kind of retailer/aquarist as long as you are willing to continue to learn, teach and grow. Kindly, Anthony> Dungeness crab (holding facility/gear) Hi Robert, <Howdy> Our company manufactures crab and lobster traps. We're purchasing a 12' wide x 31" high wading pool to set up as a crab observation tool. We want to watch Dungeness crab, and perhaps lobster later, as they crawl into our traps and try to get out. We make some entrance devices for the traps that we would like to observe as to their effectiveness. Our web site is www.neptunemarineproducts.com. <Neat> Any advice on how extensive of a system I will need to keep the crab alive and active would be appreciated. I suspect we would only need a couple of weeks to observe the crab's behaviour in relation to our entrances. After that, a crab feed! <Take a look here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm re centralized filtration systems in the ornamental aquatics business... same gear, principles apply... and any/all else on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) that is linked, is unknown to you... And make it known if I can be of further help... Am tempted to suggest a "skid unit" more for the pool industry than a more expensive "live holding system" unit here... If cost is a concern... But would like to know that I/we weren't otherwise changing the test animal/prey's behavior by neglecting good water quality. Bob Fenner> Sincerely, Ed Wyman Thanks for the Help - Rebuilding a Pet Store System Hello Bob, Thank you for your helpful response. I wasn't sure whether I would have to look for my answer on-line, so I was surprised to find your response in my in-box the next day. Sorry it has taken me so much longer to get back to you. <No worries> We had a bit of a rough weekend, ... Our local electric company was to replace the main power feeds for the building our pet store is in, ... Saturday night, sometime between 6pm and 2am Sunday morning. So, it was my job to rent, set up, and operate the generator that would save the fishes lives. <Yikes... a big job> There I was with my spare gas can, my cot and my guitar. Of course they never showed up. I'll probably get to do the same thing next weekend. <Some fun now... not!> Anyway, back to the design of our new salt water system. Thank you for your guidance. My plumbing questions have basically been answered. The idea of leaving a "vent" tee open on some of the tank drains was a "light bulb" for me. So obvious, but I never thought of it until you suggested it. <Really does work... of course> Based on the input I have solicited from helpful souls like yourself, along with what I have read, I am proposing the following water processing flow: Tanks (20 - 20 gallon tanks = 400 gallons or thereabouts) <Hmm forties or even sixties would be better... able to maintain much more life, much more easily, less maintenance than twenty gallon marine systems> Bulkhead and drain line for each tank (1-1/2" flex, about 24" long) 3" Return line <3" return? This can be 2"... and the supply line just 3/4"... you don't need anything larger diameter... much more money for larger pipe, fittings...> Filter Sock (Recommendation? - see below) <Yes... Emperor Aquatics has the best ones> Sump section 1 (excess flow floods into section 2) Skimmer pump Venturi Skimmer (output into sump section 2) Sump section 2 (floods to section 3 if bio filter clogged) Chemical Filter (activated charcoal) Pump to feed biological filter Biological filter (Wet/Dry or Fluidized bed?) <Fluidized bed if you think you will have widely fluctuating bioloads> Sump Section 3 Heater Main pump UV filter (with parallel bypass to get correct flow) <And to maintenance the lamps, sleeves> Fine mechanical Filter (Pleated paper cartridge) <Really? Do get/use at least two sets of cartridges (will last four times as long) that you can be cleaning, letting air dry while other set/s are in use> Return to Tanks I'd sure welcome your opinion on this layout. <Sounds like it has most everything to it> Some issues I can see: I'd like to start the processing with an easy to change, easy to clean, gross mechanical filter that can run with very little head pressure off the gravity returns to the sump (about 2' of head). This might be a filter sock, some floss in a chamber or something else, .... any recommendation? <Yes... a floating "fish box" with a two layers of Dacron polyester "batting material" (from the yardage store)... this is the same material as coarse filter media, DLS sold in the trade... cut some squares, punch holes in the Styro box, put two layers of the filter media in it, and let it float in/over the return sump after the Emperor "socks" filter out the main gunk coming from the return line...> I don't want to spend the money it would take to buy a skimmer that would handle 100% of the flow. I already have the Top Fathom TF300 and a couple of Emperor Aquafoamer II venturi skimmers, rated at 400 gallons. I don't know what the flow rates of any of these units are, but from the pump recommendations, I would guess that they pass 300 gph or less. My total system flow should be around 1500 - 2000 gph, right? <Not necessarily... no sense in "over-driving" the skimmers... flow/pressure wise... do just run that amount of water through it/them that is best/rated. Look into the Euro-Reef Skimmer line when you can fit it into your budget...> I have read, and been told that skimmers won't work in parallel, <What? Of course they can/will> but this would be the best scenario for me. I would like to use skimmers that we have available for sale in the store, both as a marketing tool, and so I could have more personal knowledge of the products so as to help our clients. You recommended EuroReef, which sounds like an excellent product, but is pretty "high line" for our current business. So, I would again like to raise the concept of dual, identical, commercial hobbyist skimmers, like Turboflotors or Red Sea Berlin Classics, run in parallel. I see many "reef sump" systems that feature built-in dual skimmers, so why is it not recommended with discrete components? <You've got me... I recommend it if a larger unit can't be afforded, it makes sense otherwise> I would run them off a single pump, headered and valved to fine tune the operation of each (Turboflotors could be in a sump section with a weir for level control) <Yes> Also, although you recommended placing the skimmer after the bio-filter, it seems sensible to place the skimmer first in the process since a portion of the organic materials it will remove would end up being converted by the bio-filter anyway. Why not give the skimmers the smelliest, juiciest swill possible? <The sorts of molecules are different, and there are other advantages to aerating the water before returning it (degassing principally)> Do you have any recommendations for chemical filtration? I was thinking of something like a muslin bag full of activated charcoal in a section of the sump that would pass full flow, after the skimmer but before bio-filtration. <Should come last... activated carbon is fine. Replace/renew monthly> Moving downstream, I have a wet/dry available. I also have a big fluidized bed filter (like 13 or 14 gallons of media). This was hooked up incorrectly and never worked properly, but since we already own it, ... would this be preferable? <Yes> It is unfortunate that laying things out in the order I have, I will require a pump to operate the bio filter. One option would be to run the bio-filter on the output from the skimmer(s), which would be more viable if I can go with the high flow, dual skimmer scenario. Do you have any other insight on this? <Yes... less pumps are better... returning the water through the skimmers is fine> And on downstream, ... Do you think there is any point to placing a fine mechanical filter after the main pump (returning flow to the tanks) <No> This is where it was placed on the old system, and I guess it probably needed the head from the pump to operate. On the other hand, it seems like it might be a good place for things to collect and rot. Policy has been to clean it once a month, but I suspect that this has not been happening even this often. <More like every few days... a mess, and source of trouble. I'd eliminate this> And one final consideration; My thought was to split what was a poorly designed system with 650 gallons of tank space into two separate systems of 400 gallons each (I am packing in more tanks). I was hoping to have enough redundancy to: 1) be able to cross over and operate both loops off one system if a pump or other critical component goes out, and, <Just have back up gear like the main pump, unions and plug in electrics to quickly replace components> 2) cut the spread of infections from going system wide to only half the system. The negative side of this strategy is: 1) Two systems to maintain. and 2) More stuff to buy. <The systems, overall install is too small to fret about this. There is so much likelihood of lazy, accidental cross-contamination by the staff (nets, specimen containers, maintenance gear... to think to gain an advantage by separation...> I would welcome your opinion on this strategy. With so many tanks to maintain, I really can't consider separate systems for each tank, although this would be best from a quarantine perspective. <No, impractical economically... and in view of human "nature"> I think I will maintain a half dozen or so 10s or 20s with hang-on filters for quarantine tanks. <Take a bit of time here... there are successful operations that do quarantine all incoming livestock... takes real discipline, money, space... not tens, twenties... a replicate size, make-up design about the same as the space dedicated to retail display... your livestock needs to turn about the same as quarantine interval... let's say every two weeks... to stay in business...> Feed water and change water could come from our main system. Unfortunately, because of turnover rates, new arrivals can't be accommodated in quarantine. <Then this is a decision you have made... don't waste your time on the half way quarantine scheme> "Gift fish" that we get from time to time could, however. <Do engage, adhere to a strict dip/bath procedure then... for all incoming fish livestock> Well sir, thank you very very much for your time, and for sharing your knowledge. A blessing indeed. Respectfully, John Visk <Indeed my friend, and gladly shared. Bob Fenner> Help - Rebuilding a Pet Store System Hello Bob, I ran across your FAQs while researching protein skimmers and I hope you will be able to help me. My girlfriend has recruited me to rebuild the Saltwater system in the Mom N Pop Pet Store she has owned for about 8 months. (I am Pop) <A big responsibility. Glad to be of help> I have been reading whatever I can find, but most of the information I find is directed towards Single-Tank, Hobbyist systems. <Understandably> The existing system has been nothing but problems. The budget for this rework is not large, so I will be doing the work myself, and making the wisest use of the available dollars. We are still in the first year, paying off bills, and the guys who owned the store before us built the system in somewhat "shoemaker" fashion. <I understand> Basically, I wish to convert one large system of about 20 tanks from 20 to 40 gallons, (about 650 gallons total) fed from a single sump, into two systems, each of about 375 gallons. This scheme will allow me to shorten the piping runs, and duplicate the essential equipment (I could crossover during a crisis at reduced capacity) <Have been "there" and done "this"> The tanks are arranged in two tiers, at about knee and shoulder height. The two systems will be grouped by location, not by their height, that is top and bottom tiers will be tied together in several distinct systems. All the tanks are drilled, with 1" bulkheads in place. <Okay> There is also to be a smaller reef system, of about 200 gallons total, <Tied in with the central filtration? I'll assume this system is a stand-alone> and there is a freshwater system that will need reworking eventually, but I won't dwell on it here. I have an idea of what I want to do, but I have lots of questions, like: What size should return piping from tank to sump be for 400 gallon, 12 tank system? <At least 1 1/2 inch inside diameter.... 2" ID would be better> Should Returns from the tank drains be pitched at 1/4" per foot, More? Less? <This should be sufficient> Should Return piping be a "tree" design or a "single loop"? <Tree for cost's sake, should be sufficient> Should I be concerned with placement of drain branches on a return line downstream of other tanks? Some of the drains currently bubble and gurgle. Could this be a hydraulic issue, or should I look for clogs? <Hmm not likely... but do "Tee" down the overflows, and "vent them occasionally with a Tee open to the top...> Should skimmers be located before or after wet/dry? Should skimmers be located before or after a fluidized bed bio filter? <After my friend... or on the same collective sump... Wish I knew how to "make drawings" on this device... Please read through this section on our site: http://wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm> Can I run identical Venturi Skimmers in parallel to get the flow capacity I need? I would prefer to stay away from the really big $ semi custom stuff. <I understand... and no need. Do just run one Euro-Reef Skimmer on your collective sump. Their link on our sites Links Pages> What is the correct light density and color index for Saltwater, Fish Only systems? <A few watts per gallon of boosted fluorescents (CFs best), VHO next. of a CRI of at least 90...> And it goes on and on. I have a list of the equipment that is available, and I have put together some sketches of the proposed system. If you are willing to accept it, I will be happy to supply more info, and I am much obliged. If you can refer someone who is doing this sort of work professionally, I'll see if "the boss" will consider a consultation. We are in the Greater Chicago, Illinois area. <Let's just quickly go back and forth through this medium... much to be gained/shared twixt us and browsers... and will soon "know you well enough" to communicate more effectively... as you will find> I am a mechanical engineer, so I am not afraid of the technology. She thinks I know everything. What scares me is the more I read, the more I am finding out how little I know. <You are on the brink of enlightenment!> Thanks for your input, Sincerely, John Visk <Chat with you soon my friend. Bob Fenner> Starting a New Business I'm starting up a new pet/fish store. <How exciting! Welcome to the trade my friend> I am very interested in your recirculating systems. How do I find more out about that. <Please read over the following parts of our site on live holding systems of this type: http://wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltfaqs.htm In fact, the entire business Index on the www.WetWebMedia.com site may interest you> Like cost & maintenance. <Have your utility company help you in choosing your pumping... very important (largest cost) to get efficiency factored in...> Which type of aquarium is better, glass or acrylic? <Both have their merits... for areas where the ground shakes, acrylic is preferred (sez me), and also for ease of cutting, modifying... But it IS important to "show what you sell" (or hope to)... and so, if the folks in your area are entrenched in glass... Do have the manufacturer drill holes ahead of assembling these tanks for your store use.> I am trying to get a small business loan <Have you looked into the Small Business Administration (as in the Government vs. local banks) loans?> & it would greatly help if I knew the approx. price of setting up the systems. <Yes, a very worthwhile planning tool... as well as a spread sheet to show about what you will/hope to have going through your shop gross/net> I've been on the web for quite a few days trying to locate wholesale distributors to send me some of their catalogs. Not an easy task! <Which part of the world are you in? Do contact the "Pet Business" magazine folks and get hold of their most recent "Buyer's Guide"... has locations, names et al. of most everyone in the industry in the West (U.S.)... and ask some not-too-close future competitor's staff members where "they get their stuff"... and contact those folks, ask them for their help... invaluable> Your web-site has been the most informative by far (THANKS!) I live in a small town, about 90 miles east of St. Louis, MO. There is only one other pet/fish store in a three county area. I've been working in that pet store for a couple of months. <Ah, great demographics... and experiences> I'm trying to think of everything that I would need for an initial start up. <Do write/document all this...> I get on here every night to read all about the world of aquatics & to learn all I can about taking care of the fish & the aquariums. Any info that you could get to me would be greatly appreciated. <There are a lifetime (likely more) of exposures, reflections ahead of you... with folks like myself to help guide you, and be guided. Looking forward to the involvement. Bob Fenner> Thank you, Tina Sutherland Central System Bob, I wrote to you a couple of months ago
about opening a new store in Little Rock, AR and had questions about
central filtration. I am about to finish up the quarantine systems and
will start putting in the central system next. I have a question about
which type of biological filter would be best for it - fluidized bed or
a large trickle filter. <Mmm, depends on the size of the system...
how much life you're going to keep in it... and how much, how often
the bioload will fluctuate... By and large the trickle filter is
better... for large wholesale facilities with huge loads, variance, the
fb> I have twelve 40 gallon tanks drilled to drain into a 100 gallon
sump - through an Aerofoamer 848 (2000 gph) Skimmer - returned to the
tanks by two Mag 24's through two Aqua UV 57 watt sterilizers.
Probably 2000 - 2500 gph total volume. <A particulate filter too I
hope> If I put in a trickle filter, I would have to pump the water
from the sump up into it. How many gallons of bio-balls would I need?
Would a trickle filter create too many nitrates? <Hmm, I would have
another sump (for volume, the biofiltration and particulate
filtration). Have you read through the business parts of our site? The
central filtration areas?: http://wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm I
wouldn't use bioballs, but instead a calcareous media below a
couple of layers of Dacron polyester (yes, this simple) in perforated
trays...> I'm also having a hard time finding a fluidized bed
filter that would handle that water volume. Would a fluidized bed
filter take too much oxygen out of the water? <You could build one
out of a pre-made pool/spa all fiberglass pressurized filter, or a
tote, acrylic or wood and fiberglass box...> Thank you for any input
you may have. <Mush more to go over... wish you could have traveled
about with me for a few weeks to visit other shops, compare notes...
Bob Fenner> Larry McGee Aquatic Designs LR, AR P.S. I've started
selling your book in my store - I can't seem to keep one in for
more than a couple of days! |
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