FAQs on Tiger Barbs Health
Related Articles: Tiger Barbs, Barbs, Danios &
Rasboras, A
Barbed Response; Wrongly maligned for being fin-nippers, barbs
are in fact some of the best fish for the home aquarium by
Neale Monks
Related FAQs: Tiger Barbs 1, Tiger Barbs 2, & FAQs on: Tiger Barbs Identification, Tiger Barbs Behavior, Tiger Barbs Compatibility, Tiger Barbs Selection, Tiger Barbs Systems, Tiger Barbs Feeding, Tiger Barbs Reproduction, & Barbs, Danios, Rasboras 1, B,D,R Identification, B,D,R Behavior, B,D,R Compatibility, B,D,R Selection, B,D,R Systems, B,D,R Feeding, B,D,R Disease, B,D,R Reproduction,
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Glofish coloring problems. Velvet? 11/3/17
Hello to the crew. I have searched for an answer all over the web and
WWM, but nothing has fit my question or problem. So I would like to
apologize ahead of time if this has been previously discussed.
<Okay!>
I have 6 Glofish Tiger Barbs in a 24 gal. AquaPod. The tank was cycled
before they were put into the tank. The tank has now been running for
about 4 months. My readings are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate, and
the pH is
7.0. I have a Fluval 204 external canister filter. I normally do water
changes one time per week at 25%.
<A good regimen>
I clean the filter once a month and replenish the charcoal. I feed them
a small variety of foods such as Omega
One brine shrimp, Omega One bloodworms, Omega One freshwater community
squares, Fluval's Bug Bites, and once in a while if I am in a super
hurry some tropical flake. I keep the tank at 76 degrees Fahrenheit
normally. I
used to have gravel on the bottom but since the problem started I have
removed it.
<Sounds/reads good thus far>
About 10 weeks ago one of my fish died, but he was the runt and I always
had a feeling like he was going to perish. Due to the other picking on
him always. So like a moron I went and bought one to replace him,
because I
have read that they like to be in a group of 6 or more. I did not
quarantine him. I know, shame on me. I am not sure if it came from him
or not, but still shame on me. A few days after putting him in there I
noticed that one of the others was glancing off of the air stone hose.
Then I noticed that one of them began to act like the one who died,
hiding all the time and only coming out for feeding time. I started to
check out my fish more closely but could not see any visible parasites,
and the symptoms were like Ich but no white dots. I read somewhere to
take a light and shine it on the fish to check for Velvet. That Velvet
would have a shiny, gold appearance on the fish. Well, lo and behold, my
fish looked like they were dipped in gold with the light on them. I
researched what methods work the best to cure it, and chose CopperSafe.
I used the CopperSafe for about 5-7 days with the tank covered and
temperature up to 82 degrees and did not notice any difference. I asked
the LFS what was I doing wrong and how to cure it. They said keep in the
CopperSafe but also add in Rid Ich and that should work. I waited
another week with that treatment, still no improvement (meaning the gold
was all still there).
<Mmm; I'd like to have you take your light and visit the pet
store, shine the light on the Glofish barbs there. The dust you see may
not be Velvet; some glancing behavior is natural, not indicative of
disease>
I began my research again committed to helping cure my babies. I did 3
Methylene Blue dips, and nothing. I put the fish in another tank
without gravel and everything all new so I could clean their tank &
hopefully remove the Velvet. I know I killed my biofilter but I have
other tanks that I borrowed media from to help with cycling. I chose to
give my babies a break from the treatments until I found the for sure
cure.
<Again.... Does your fish store have a microscope; offer
services to look at samples? I'd ask about and have them take a look on
a fish you bring in>
After a week and a half I bought a medicated Wonder Shell from American
Aquarium Products that states it kills Velvet in all forms. I did a 25%
water change before I put it in the tank. That has now been in the tank
for 1 week. The directions say to keep it in there for 3 weeks
preferably without water changes because it would lessen the strength of
the medication. Tonight, I decided to get out my flashlight and check
out my fish. It's still there. It has not lessened at all.
<... am pretty to very sure at this point that there is no
Velvet present here>
So now I am starting to wonder if at all possible that this golden sheen
on them is the results of them being genetically altered.
<Ahh! Yes>
The gold does not look like dust on them. It is more like how goldfish
have that opalescent look to their scales. Is this a possibility that
this is their coloring and the glancing could have been due to some
other problem,
<Or nothing; really. The same as you and I scratching at times>
that mostly has been cure with everything I have done to them. Any help
or advice or just words of wisdom would be appreciated so much. Thank
you,
Sincerely desperate,.
Debra
<I would cease treatments, resume water change regimens, and slowly
lower the temperature back down.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Glofish coloring problems 11/4/17
To Bob,
<Deb>
Thank you so much for getting back to me. I was thinking the same thing
you suggested, about ceasing treatment.
<Yes I would>
I am also going to go to the LFS and bring my flashlight to check it
out, just to see if we are right. Your website is a blessing and very
much appreciated. If there is some link you could give me I would like
to donate to WWM.
<Ahh:
https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token=u5YSaty1lBF486Gv6F1mpqupCKpDRuImZ-nXzndjbDAuXL_uHU40krHWf5BJkQUFHy6oC0&country.x=US&locale.x=US
You and the crew are so worth it. Thank you again.
Best regards and blessings to you , the crew and your families,
Debra
<And you and yours. BobF>
Glofish coloring problems /Neale
11/6/17
Hello to the crew. I have searched for an answer all over the web and
WWM, but nothing has fit my question or problem. So I would like to
apologize ahead of time if this has been previously discussed.
<No problem.>
I have 6 Glofish Tiger Barbs in a 24 gal. AquaPod. The
tank was cycled before they were put into the tank. The tank has now
been running for about 4 months. My readings are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite,
10 nitrate, and the pH is 7.0. I have a Fluval 204 external canister
filter. I normally do water changes one time per week at 25%. I clean
the filter once a month and replenish the charcoal. I feed them a small
variety of foods such as Omega One brine shrimp, Omega One bloodworms,
Omega One freshwater community squares, Fluval's Bug Bites, and once in
a while if I am in a super hurry some tropical flake. I keep the tank at
76 degrees Fahrenheit normally. I used to have gravel on the bottom but
since the problem started I have removed it.
<All sounds fine, though a little warm for Danios; ideally, keep them at
24C/74F, with plenty of oxygen above all else.>
About 10 weeks ago one of my fish died, but he was the runt and I always
had a feeling like he was going to perish.
<Indeed.>
Due to the other picking on him always. So like a moron I went and
bought one to replace him, because I have read that they like to be in a
group of 6 or more.
<They do. Or more specifically, in smaller groups, males can become
bullies, harassing the other Danios, even to the point of killing them.>
I did not quarantine him. I know, shame on me. I am not sure if it came
from him or not, but still shame on me.
<Quarantining is certainly the ideal, but I do accept that if you have
just the one tank, it isn't practical, and we just have to trust our
retailer has quarantined the fish for us. Sadly, not all of them do.>
A few days after putting him in there I noticed that one of the others
was glancing off of the air stone hose.
<A good first sign of either Velvet or Whitespot.>
Then I noticed that one of them began to act like the one who died,
hiding all the time and only coming out for feeding time. I started to
check out my fish more closely but could not see any visible parasites,
and the symptoms were like Ich but no white dots. I read somewhere to
take a light and shine it on the fish to check for Velvet. That Velvet
would have a shiny, gold appearance on the fish. Well, low and behold,
my fish looked like they were dipped in gold with the light on them.
<Plus, Velvet is notorious for getting at the gills before it infests
the skin.>
I researched what methods work the best to cure it, and chose
CopperSafe. I used the CopperSafe for about 5-7 days with the tank
covered and temperature up to 82 degrees and did not notice any
difference. I asked the LFS what was I doing wrong and how to cure it.
They said keep in the CopperSafe but also add in Rid Ich and that should
work.
<Did your aquarium have carbon in the filter? As a reminder: carbon will
remove most medicines, preventing a cure. If used correctly, however,
CopperSafe, and indeed any commercial anti-Velvet medication, should
work well. Some people do prefer the old heat/salt method, which has the
advantage of being cheap and less toxic.>
I waited another week with that treatment, still no improvement (meaning
the gold was all still there). I began my research again committed to
helping cure my babies. I did 3 Methylene Blue dips, and nothing.
<Methylene Blue is pretty much only useful for Fungus.>
I put the fish in another tank without gravel and everything all new so
I could clean their tank & hopefully remove the Velvet.
<Possibly...>
I know I killed my biofilter but I have other tanks that I borrowed
media from to help with cycling. I chose to give my babies a break from
the treatments until I found the for sure cure. After a week and a half
I bought a medicated Wonder Shell from American Aquarium Products that
states it kills Velvet in all forms.
<Medicated Wonder Shells contain malachite green, Acriflavine, copper
sulphate, and Methylene blue. Should work, but I'm not a huge fan of
these soluble shells because they ALSO raise the pH and hardness. If the
tank is empty, you may as well use bleach to kill everything. Obviously
rinse thoroughly. Once done, set back up like a new aquarium, cycling
the tank if necessary. Meantime, the quarantined fish can be medicated
with something effective; perhaps salt/heat, or else something
copper-based, as copper really is the best anti-protozoan medication out
there. Copper is very toxic though, so use as directed, especially with
regard to dosages.>
I did a 25% water change before I put it in the tank. That has now been
in the tank for 1 week. The directions say to keep it in there for 3
weeks preferably without water changes because it would lessen the
strength of the medication.
<Indeed.>
Tonight, I decided to get out my flashlight and check out my fish. It's
still there. It has not lessened at all. So now I am starting to wonder
if at all possible that this golden sheen on them is the results of them
being genetically altered.
<Good question. There are fish -- like the Golden Tetra, Hemigrammus
rodwayi -- that have specific colouration precisely because an infection
has damaged their scales. I don't know enough about GloFish to be sure
in your case, but if the fish is healthy now, but the colouration has
changed, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the scales may
well be "off colour" until they are repaired or replaced. Unfortunately,
fish don't normally replace scales like we shed hair, but as the fish
grows, the damaged scales will become proportionally less obvious, new
scales being added as the fish gets bigger.>
The gold does not look like dust on them. It is more like how goldfish
have that opalescent look to their scales. Is this a possibility that
this is their coloring and the glancing could have been due to some
other problem, that mostly has been cure with everything I have done to
them. Any help or advice or just words of wisdom would be appreciated so
much. Thank you,
Sincerely desperate,.
Debra
<Most welcome. Neale.>
Sick
Tiger Barb 3/29/12
Wet Web Media Crew-
<Hello,>
I bought a baby Tiger Barb today at Wal-Mart because the poor little
thing was swimming on its side and getting demolished by the others in
it's tank.
<Sadly, this is natural behaviour if one of the fish is weakened and
the other Barbs are hungry -- they'll view their weak compatriot as
food, or at least target practise.>
I have never owned a fish before but I would love to nourish this
little guy to health if possible.
<Is possible, assuming the tank provides good conditions. For a
single Tiger Barb, you might just get away with 8-10 gallons, but
you'd also need a heater and a filter. If the biological filter is
new (i.e., you just set up the tank) you'll need to do daily water
changes of about 20% for the first 2-3 weeks. New water will need to
have water conditioner added. Feed sparingly, 2-3 times a week, and
tiny, tiny amounts -- no bigger than the eye of the fish. Remove
uneaten food after a minute.>
I put him in a tank with the appropriate water and have tried to feed
him but he just lays completely flat at the bottom, desperately trying
to sit upright. His little fins are constantly thrashing in an effort
to swim around which is just heart breaking to look at. Is there
anything I can do to help the little guy or should I go ahead and put
him out of his misery?
<Hard to say. Do read: http://wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
Fish can recover from surprisingly serious wounds, but they do need
good conditions. If this fish was ailing for some other reason, then
the outlook is worse.>
Thanks! Ansley
<Cheers, Neale.>
Tiger Barbs Need
Help! 1/26/12
Hello. I have two tiger barbs
<Too few>
in a 3 gallon tank
<Too small>
which have just gotten Ich. I have been treating it for
a few days. I just got these fish 4 days ago, and they haven't
eaten at all yet. I have been treating them with Nox-Ich Ich
treatment.
<Malachite Green... I'd just elevate temperature. Read
here...:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwichremedyyes.htm
I give them 3 drops per day. Recently, their fins have gotten cloudy,
with small white, cloudy, strings hanging off. Is that fungus?
<Poisoning from the med.>
Could it be from the Ich treatment?
<Almost assuredly>
One of them was floating today.
<... very bad>
He looks as if he might have fungus on his body, and on the top of his
mouth. The other one just has Ich, so if it was fungus, wouldn't he
have it too? Also, it looks almost like they have a small case of fin
rot. The temperature of the tank stays around 70-73 degrees. They have
a light on in the day, but not at night. The tank harness is slightly
soft, the ph is normal, the nitrate and nitrite levels are fine too.
They are not showing any signs of ammonia poisoning. What is going on
with them and how can I fix it all? Could they starve soon? Thank you!
Please write back, they need help!
Thanks,
Amy
<... Learn to/search WWM... read, understand, then act. Bob
Fenner>
Problems with Tiger
Barbs 12/12/11
Hi, after about 3 weeks, all seemed well. Then I started
losing 4 and 5...what could make them so sick? Water temp
is good. The other fish are doing well
<Likely environmental conditions are poor. We need some numbers
here. What's the nitrite (with an "i", not nitrate with
an "a")? What's the pH? Do you know the hardness? How big
is the tank? What is the temperature of the water? What is the turnover
rate (gallons/hour or litres/hour) of the filter? How often do you do
water changes? How much do you change? What sort of water conditioner
do you add? Have you used any medications recently? Copper being
especially toxic but used by many Whitespot medications. Are you adding
salt? Cheers, Neale.>
tiger barb upside down... Env., too-soft
water... 4/5/10
Hi, Crew,
Thanks for hosting such a great site.
I have been researching on your site and on the internet regarding my
tiger barb.
I can't find the answer I'm looking for, so I'm emailing
you for advice.
I have a 36 gallon freshwater tank. About 4 weeks ago, my zebra Danio
died.
<Danios are social species, need to be kept in groups>
Within days, my dwarf Gourami developed what looked like blisters on
his side and died soon after.
<... Read here: Oh! I see from below you already have>
I now know that this was probably a form of dwarf Gourami disease,
based on what I read on your site. My second dwarf Gourami died closely
thereafter, followed by two pearl gouramis (I still have one pearl left
and it appears to be doing fine). I've been changing the water
twice a week since these problems started. I haven't wanted to
treat the whole tank with an antibiotic because I didn't want to
upset the bio-filter and also because I have invertebrates and
scaleless fish (snail, Kuhli loaches, albino Corydoras, shrimp).
Perhaps this was a big mistake...
<Too likely so>
I typically do weekly water changes and water testing (for ph, ammonia,
nitrites, nitrates). My biggest challenge is keeping the ph above 6.0
(this is an established tank, and it has been a real problem for me
keeping the ph at an acceptable level).
<Mmm, actually... this isn't all that hard to do... Read
here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardnessfaqs.htm
and the linked files above>
My tap water is very soft and has a neutral ph of 7.0.
<I'd augment with a carbonate, bicarbonate buffer... you can
make one yourself per the reading above, or buy a commercial one,
or...>
Last week, one of my tiger barbs started swimming erratically, then
started floating upside down. He has been upside down or on his side
for 5 days now. I moved him a few days ago to a quarantine tank and
have been treating him with tetracycline. I have one more dose to give
him before I have finished one course of treatment. He is still upside
down, and hasn't eaten for at least 5 days. He also has what
appears to be fin rot with some fungal growth behind his dorsal fin. I
really expected him to die, but he seems to still have some
"fight" in him. I want to give him every chance I can, but I
want to be humane as well.
<Mmm, something is going on here... water quality wise... What
decor, ornaments are present in this system?>
Does this sound like swim bladder disease? (His scales aren't
sticking out, which I know is an indication of dropsy.) Is tetracycline
an acceptable treatment for his maladies?
<Not really... there is "something" awry with the system
itself. Rather than treating symptoms, you need to find/discern and
cure the cause/s>
I don't see anything else that's offered to treat swim bladder
disease in the US--anything else you could recommend as a treatment (I
have both Erythromycin and Maracyn and Maracyn 2 on hand). If you think
I should start another antibiotic, what do I need to do given that I
will have just completed a course of treatment with tetracycline?
<No treatment required, or suggested>
Should I even attempt to feed him (I see that crushed canned peas are
recommended in some cases), or will that just muck up the tank? Should
I bring out the clove oil?
<I would not>
Thanks for any help you can give.
Best,
Laura
<Read here as well:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwdis3setsfactors.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>
Re: tiger barb upside down
4/5/10
Thanks, Bob, for your speedy reply!
Here's a bit more info: I've had the tank for nearly 5
years.
I have iron-enriched substrate (can't remember the brand name)
mixed with a medium-sized pebble substrate--
about 1-1/2 inches deep. I have 9-10 assorted live plants. I have an
assortment of fish:
5 Danios
3 barbs (one now in quarantine hanging upside down)
1 pearl Gourami
1 roseline shark
2 rainbow fish
1 shrimp
1 snail
2 Kuhli loaches
1 ram
4 neon tetras
1 Corydoras
The Danio that recently died and the Corydoras (that's still alive)
were hatched from eggs in the tank (the parents of both have since
died). My tank has always seemed pretty happy.
<Mmm... the "list" of possible contaminants is quite
large... Do you measure for free Iron? Is there a cat-box near? Do
folks use aerosol-spray cleaners in your home?>
I have an Eheim Ecco canister filter and a "whisper tetra"
filter that hangs outside of the tank. I clean the canister every few
months and the other filter every 2 weeks.
I haven't had a "mass death" in the tank until this past
month, when about 6 fish died all within about 4 weeks' time (as
noted in my earlier email).
I did start vacuuming "deeper" during my cleanings and
I'm wondering if I could have released some harmful bacteria into
the water as a result?
<A possibility>
To help manage the ph I've used buffers recommended by the LFS (a
combination of Seachem acid and alkaline buffers according to
instructions on the back of the containers) but the impact lasts for
only 1 - 2 days before the ph sinks to 5 again. Maybe I need to add it
more frequently until it stabilizes? I'll read up more on this.
<Please do so>
Just to revisit my poor little barb: it's in a quarantine tank.
I've given it a course of tetracycline. It has been a few days
since I started treatment. The barb isn't eating or swimming
around--just hanging upside down. How soon could I reasonably expect it
to start showing signs of recovery, if it's going to recover? I
understand that you are not recommending any treatment, so I won't
continue with an antibiotic.
However, when you say, "I would not" at the end of your last
message, were you referring to the peas or the clove oil?!
Thanks for your help--
Laura
<The Clove Oil... I'd try some Epsom Salt... Please read here
re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
and the linked FAQs file above. BobF>
Help With Tiger Barbs, beh.,
hlth./env. 11/25/09
Hi!
<Hello,>
I was hoping that perhaps you could help me with my tiger barbs. I have
been observing some odd behaviour from them as of late. I have searched
the indexes but can't seem to find an answer that would suit my
tank. First, my setup is a 20 gallon tank with gravel in the bottom. I
have a clay pot that I glued gravel to with aquarium sealer (the stuff
made for tanks) and they use it as a cave. I have a bio wheel filter
that is in good working condition, and I have an undergravel filter
with the two posts up each side with air stones in them. (I don't
currently have the charcoal in them as I had to take them out for
medication and haven't put them back in. It's just for aerating
at the moment). I have a new heater which keeps my tank at 24c or 75f.
I also have one plant in there which they have eaten all the leaves off
in the middle half! Poor plant. Anyways, I have 5, well, HAD five tiger
barbs. One died yesterday. I now have two regular tiger barbs, one of
the albinos, and one green. They all get along great, (they aren't
full grown yet, but close.)
<You really will need to keep them in groups of six or more; in
smaller groups, Puntius tetrazona can become a real menace. As you
recognise, it doesn't matter if you use the standard sort, the
albinos, or the moss green tiger barbs. But you do need six or
more.>
I basically have about 4 problems. The biggest concern for me is that
they seem to be doing heavy breathing. Not all the time, and I
don't seem them all doing it at once, but they do swim around
breathing heavy by opening their mouths almost all the way and I can
see their gills going. It at least seems heavy to me because not all of
them do it, all the time.
<Barbs are like the old miner's canary: they quickly show when
water conditions aren't good. Heavy breathing typically means high
levels of ammonia or nitrite, or else dramatic changes in pH. Review
water quality and check water chemistry stability. Tiger Barbs can
muddle through the "cycling" phase of a new tank, but they
will be stressed by it, and some may well die.>
The second problem I notice is sometimes when I come home and turn the
lights on for feeding, I notice that some or all have faded colors.
This usually returns in a few hours I'd say.
<Normal. Many, perhaps most, wild-type freshwater fish change their
colours in the dark. Artificial varieties like Goldfish don't show
this so much, which is why it's sometimes unexpected.>
The next is that I occasionally see them doing head stands but never
for a long time. I also don't see it very often.
<Again, this is a classic sign of stress, typically ammonia/nitrite
issues, but possibly sudden pH changes.>
And lastly, I recently added two of the regular tiger barbs to the
three I had before. They were smaller than the other three but I have
NEVER seem aggression among my fish. The one tiger barb has caught but
to the others, but the other one is still quite small. He hasn't
grown much. I seem him often hiding at the bottom of the plant, or in
the cave. Is this because he's small? Or is there something wrong
with him?
<This species is extremely hierarchical, and unless kept in adequate
numbers, it is VERY common for one fish to become a bully, and the
weakest fish to end up being picked on.>
I do test my tank and I have never seen ammonia or nitrite register on
my tests.
<I just don't believe that this is reliable. What you're
describing is classic environmental stress behaviour. If the tank has
been running with fish for more than two months, and the nitrite and
ammonia are both at zero, then you may be okay in terms of water
quality. In that case, think about other possible sources of toxins,
for example paint fumes. Also check you're using a dechlorinator
that treats chloramine as well as chlorine.
Check the pH of your water is stable: some water supplies experience
sudden pH changes over 24 hours. Take a glass of water, check the pH,
and then repeat 24 hours later. If the pH is the same, you're fine.
If not, you have a problem...>
Nitrate has never been above about 20. I don't do weekly water
changes but don't feel that its overly important since I have very
few fish in my tank.
The one problem is that my tank water is..... well.... hard. Very hard
in fact. I would say it's reading at about an 8.5.
<In and of itself, this isn't the end of the world, assuming the
Tiger Barbs were settled into this water chemistry by your local
retailer. Yes, choosing hard water fish would be better: swordtails,
platies, etc.>
The people at the fish store give me mixed suggestions on what I should
do.
The one told me to use a ph reduced and against what I thought, I
did.
(thinking they know best).
<Bad idea.>
But I had to put sooooo much of that in just to make like a .1
reduction. I had to double, sometimes triple the dose. And only to have
my water return to where is was in just a couple days. I went back and
the other fish guy told me that that's okay, and they can live in
very hard waters and not to try and mess with the ph. A stable ph is
better that a neutral ph.
<Indeed.>
So, basically, I just want to know what's going on with my fish. I
have only had them two months so that one fish wasn't just old.
<See, in a young tank, I'd put money on water quality
issues.>
My tank was very well cycled and I put a bacteria supplement into the
water to help it.
<Most of these supplements are bogus.>
I did medicate them about 2 1/2 weeks ago with these fizzy tablets that
turned the water green. It was a general bacteria medication because I
noticed that it seemed like the fish had a gold shimmer to them.
<Gold shimmer is velvet, and a bacterial medication won't make a
blind bit of a difference there. Be sure to identify the problem, and
then medicate accordingly. Wrong medications can, will kill your
fish.>
After the two doses I realized they still had it, but it's only
when the sun in setting and shining into my window.... I think it's
just the fish.
They weren't sick. The guy at the fish store said it was velvet. Oh
well.
<Hmm...>
Sorry if I seem like I went on forever, I just wanted to give as much
information as possible. Hopefully you can help.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re Help With Tiger Barbs (RMF, any reason for
pH 9 water?)<<No... odd. See below. RMF>>
11/28/09
Thank you for your response. I just have a couple follow up
questions.
<Fire away.>
My water at home does have a ph swing after sitting out for a day or
two.
It comes out of the tap at 7.4, and in a day or two it will be 8.5 - 9.
Is this water not okay to use?
<I'd say not. Would recommend mixing 50/50 with rainwater
(free!) or RO water (safest).>
or should I just make sure the ph stabilizes first?
<Always, always, ALWAYS let the pH stabilise before adding to the
aquarium.
Get a 5 gallon bucket from a DIY store, fill with water, and leave
overnight before using.>
Also, the pet store I buy them from keeps their water at 7.8. Is this
to much of a difference?
<From pH 7.8 to pH 9? Gosh! Yes, far too much of a change. Are you
using municipal water or well water?>
I have noticed sudden sickness after I brought them home. In fact, the
one that died I had since the end of September.
<I bet.>
I do use a dechlorinator that does to chloramine as well.
<Good.>
Also, as for the number of fish, I do plan on having the whole tank
stocked with the tigers, I was taking them home a few at a time to add
them but then I stopped buying after the second bunch when they got
sick. I feel I should have the tank under control before adding new
fish.
<If you really do have water this hard and this basic, Tiger Barbs
would not be my preference; I'd be looking at either hard water
fish (like Platies and Guppies) or a brackish water community where the
marine salt mix would stabilise the pH somewhere useful (e.g., with a
mix of Mollies).>
And as for velvet. Could they still have it?
<Sure.>
I notice it on my green moss barb. He still has the gold shimmer to
him.
It's hard to see on the others. If it's velvet, could that be
what's causing the odd behaviour? Or killed the other fish?
<Velvet attacks the gills before the skin, and yes, this will cause
respiratory stress.>
Now also, I said that since my tank has been established, I haven't
seen ammonia or nitrite on my tests. Were you saying that you don't
think my testing is reliable?
<Impossible for me to say.>
I use the liquid testing in the vials. I do it according to the
instructions and when I color match, I don't see any color on
them.
<That's usually a good start.>
So i guess, my final question is, do you think that it's that they
have velvet or poor water conditions? Or both?
<The two things do tend to go together.>
And I guess I should be leaving my water to sit before adding it to the
tank. Although the water stabilizes in about 24 hours, and it
doesn't seem to affect the overall ph much, could this be causing
the symptoms well
after the fact?
<Could well be.>
I appreciated your time to answer my questions. It's helped a
lot.
<Cool.>
Oh, and I was thinking of getting some driftwood for my tank. I know
this lowers the ph (or can) slightly. Is this a good idea?
<If your water is rock hard -- and I strongly recommend you test the
General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness before doing ANYTHING else --
then bogwood will have little/no impact on pH. Cheers, Neale.>
<<Summat is wrong here... either the test kit/reagents are shot,
the user has misunderstood/is not following directions, or the
municipality/source water is treating the tap for some reason with
chemicals that is greatly elevating pH. I would do as Neale states and
check your water for both KH and GH, and maybe contact your water
supplier. Bob Fenner>>
Re: More RE: Help With Tiger Barbs (RMF, any
reason for pH 9 water?) 11/28/09
About the note at the end, I don't believe I misunderstood the
readings. I read the instructions every time I use it and it's
clear. For both. The other testers I use in the kit work fine.
<Cool.>
As for my water, it's well water.
<Hmm.>
For using to water, is it safe to gradually switch them over to 100% RO
water? Or how should I go about that?
<You MUST NOT use 100% RO water. That will be too soft. As I said, a
50/50 mixture of RO water with hard, basic tap water will produce
something of moderate hardness and approximately neutral pH that suits
a wide variety of community fish.>
And how would the salt help the ph?
<Salt doesn't change the pH at all. Marine salt mix isn't
"just" salt, it's a mix of salt with various carbonates,
sulphates, and lots of other things.
Taken together, marine salt mix raises pH and hardness alongside
salinity.>
I really don't want mollies, and platies. Or guppies. I grew up
with them and just want something different.
<Fair enough. Do review some of the other, less often seen
livebearers though, like Limia nigrofasciata, Poecilia salvatoris,
Heterandria formosa, for example.>
Is there much selection for brackish water fish.
<Yes, a very big selection, from Figure-8 puffers, Mudskippers,
Spaghetti Eels, Archerfish to Violet Gobies, to name just a few. Do see
my Brackish Water Aquarium FAQ for more.
http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/Projects/brackishfaq.html
But not all species are on sale all the time in every pet store. So you
have to keep your eyes peel, shop around, and build your collection
slowly.>
And would I have to change the equipment I have for my setup.
<Depends. A low-end brackish water system is much like a regular
freshwater tank, except roughly a level teaspoon of marine salt mix (6
grammes) is added per litre of water. Many plants will thrive under
such conditions, so apart from the marine salt mix, the tank looks like
a community system. At higher salinities things get different, and more
like a marine aquarium in terms of decor.>
I looked at my fish again today and it's only the moss tiger that
seems to have the shimmer, I don't see it on the other ones. I did
noticed the he kept his two bottom fins close to his body the whole
time, I suspect this is the ph...
<Could well be a factor.>
So, all said, should I look for an ro supplier and what ratio should I
gradually change them to.
<I find 50/50 works well.>
Will it hurt them further to treat with a good velvet specific
medication if it's possible they don't have it?
<Yes; all medications are poisons, and used unnecessarily, can cause
problems.>
And how long can the ro water sit in a jug before using?
<Keep unused RO water in a bucket with a lid. Kept thus, it's
fine for a week or two. Eventually dust, cooking grease, and so on will
end up in there, and while not necessarily toxic, such things are best
avoided.>
I will take your advice and test the hardness. Didn't suspect it
was that because when I took my cycled water to the store to be tested,
I assumed they checked it but said everything looked great. My kit only
tests ph,
nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia
<Would strongly suggest you check the general hardness (degrees dH)
and carbonate hardness (degrees KH) before going further.>
Oh, I guess I should ask, for my little guy, should I get something so
he can be separated in the tank?
<Not much point.>
I haven't figured out who the alpha is yet. Any suggestion on food
besides flakes and granules that might help him catch up in size?
<Doesn't work this way; fish grow every day of their lives,
though the rate slows as they mature. A fish that reaches
"adolescence" smaller than its peers will always be
smaller.>
Thanks for all your help
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: More RE: Help With Tiger Barbs (Bob, do
US grocery stores sell RO water?)
11/30/09
<<Some do, but most of this water is contactor-processed.
RMF>>
I will test the two things as you suggested. Is there any way to alter
these if they are way off?
<Letting the water stand so its pH stabilises, ideally with an
airstone, but otherwise for 24 hours, will be helpful. Mixing 50/50
should result in something around 10-15 degrees dH, 5 degrees KH, and
pH 7.5. If this is indeed what you get, this is absolutely fine for
almost all community fish.>
Will the ro water help it?
<See above.>
Final question. With the ro water. Should it come from a fish
store?
<Some folks do buy their RO water from fish shops. In the long term,
it's more economical to own your own RO filter. Domestic water
softeners aren't the same thing though, because they add sodium
salts to replace the carbonate and bicarbonate salts that
"fur" up pipes, kettles and appliances. That said, if you had
brackish water fish species, the additional sodium would be well within
their tolerances, so you can keep brackish water fish just fine with
domestically softened water that has a bit of marine salt mix to
replace some of the lost carbonate and up the salinity.>
The local grocery stores sell ro water in the vending machines for
reusable bottles. Is that okay to use? I tested the water and it was
very acidic.
Around 5.5. I was under the impression it should be around seven.
<I've asked Bob to comment here, but when I lived in the US, the
grocery stores were selling filtered, not RO, water (e.g.,
Culligan's drinking water). This isn't the same thing as RO
water at all. It could be used for keeping fish if the carbonate
hardness, general hardness, and pH levels are in the tolerances of the
species being kept. But given the very low pH of the water your vendor
sells, it sounds unlikely that in its "raw" state such water
would be acceptable. By all means try a 50/50 mix with tap water, and
see what the general hardness, carbonate hardness, and pH levels come
out as. If they're in the safe zone, then it'd be fine to use.
The bottom line is that it doesn't matter where you get the water
from, just so long as these three critical parameters are acceptable to
the species being kept. I collect and use rainwater for example, which
costs nothing and is about as environmentally friendly as water can
get. On the downside, I need to strain out detritus (dead insects and
leaves, mostly) that end up in the water butt, and it does have a low
pH because of CO2 and organic acids that accumulate in the water butt,
so mixing with tap water at a 50/50 ratio is essential. Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: More RE: Help With Tiger Barbs (Bob, do
US grocery stores sell RO water?) 11/29/09
I want to thank you for all the help you've provided. It's nice
to just get straight answers instead of worry about whether or not the
person is just trying to sell me something.
<Cool.>
I have tested the two hardness levels and I think I have found part of
the problem. My general hardness is 120 (which according to the chart
is moderately hard (100-200) although I'm not sure how this is for
my tigers.
<Moderately hard levels of general hardness are just fine for most
community fish, including Puntius spp.>
I will definitely research this. The second one, which I was surprised
to find, was the carbonate hardness was way off.
<You mean extremely hard? High levels of carbonate hardness are not
acceptable to most community fish. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
I tend to work in degrees KH because it's easier, but on the tables
there you'll see how to convert between degrees KH and mg/l calcium
carbonate.
Anything above, say, 8 degrees KH, about 140 mg/l calcium carbonate, is
above what community fish like.>
I figured this was tested when I took my cycled tank water into the pet
store before I bought my fish. Maybe it changes, or maybe they
didn't test it, I don't know. I didn't get an exact reading
as I stopped the test because I felt like I was wasting all my liquid
and I know I need to mix some ro water in.
<Yes, this seems reasonable. Try a 50/50 mix and see what you
get.>
The test I have, you drop in a drop of the yellow stuff and it turns
blue, then you count the drops it takes to change the liquid you
yellow/lime. I stopped counting my drops at 21 and it just started to
turn a green. Still a very dark blue/green. This means that my
carbonate hardness (or alkalinity) over 210 mg/L!!
<Very high carbonate hardness. This is fine for some fish, like
livebearers, but less so for others.>
I will buy ro water when I get back from my trip. I will experiment
with different ratios of my tap and ro water to get the water
parameters that best suit my tigers.
Thanks for everything.
<Happy to help. Cheers, Neale.>
RE: More RE: Help With Tiger Barbs (Bob, do US grocery stores sell RO
water?)
oh, I forgot to mention that I live in Canada. I did check and they do
say it's ro water... b
<I tend to skeptical, and I'd encourage you to be likewise. Many
people do not know the difference between RO water, mineral water,
bottled water, and domestically softened water -- so it's good to
be clear. RO water isn't
normally drunk; while it may not actually be harmful, it doesn't
taste good and lacks the minerals (particularly calcium and fluoride)
that promote good health. RO water will have zero general hardness and
zero carbonate
hardness, and should have a pH of 7.0 (though this can vary because it
has zero buffering capacity, so even slight impurities can alter the
pH).
Cheers, Neale.>
Tiger Barb is getting S shape body!
6/9/09
Hi, Love your website by the way.
<We share>
I have a 29 gal. bowfront with 8 tiger barbs, 2 Chinese algae eaters
and a 1 1/2 inch yellow lab (who was suppose to be in that tank only
temporarily). water quality is perfect Nitrite 0..Nitrate 0.. Ammonia
0..ph
between 7.4-7.6
I noticed last night one of my smaller tiger barbs started to get a
curvy S shape spine. he came to eat but retreats in the back of the
tank behind the large leafy decorations. I don't know if
there's anything I can do for him/her.
<Mmm, nothing I'm aware of... the "cause" of such
spondyloses/curvatures
can be genetic to degrees, infectious... even more remotely,
nutritional>
Is it in pain?
<Don't know>
I've seen something similar with a couple platys after giving birth
then died weeks later. I hate to lose my barb! They have been doing so
well. No stress in the tank at all, everyone seems very happy. I Is
there anything I can do?
<Perhaps... Isolation... if the concern is that this might be
something catching... Not to further worry you, but you might want to
do a search with the term "fish whirling disease">
Thanks for any thoughts on this, I do love my wet pets!
Linda
<Perhaps even consider humanely euthanizing the one animal... See
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
and the linked FAQs file above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Tiger Barb is getting S shape body! &
BGK comp., sys. 06/09/09
Thank you for your response. I've never heard of whirling disease,
I looked it up & read some interesting info. My barb did eat well
still this morning and does swim OK. At least not in circles YET, like
what it said in the search for whirling. I will isolate him and see
what happens for a few days and if he gets worse I will put him down if
it has to come to that. Thank you much!
<Welcome>
I do have another question if you don't mind. I have been
researching info on keeping Black Ghost Knife fish. What an awesome
creature! Before I do buy one I'd like to know if he would be OK in
one of my tanks. I have 2 setups that are possibilities..
1- my 90 gal, setup about 3 years. Water chem..nitrate O.. nitrite O..
ammonia O..pH 7.6 Fish in tank- 3 blood parrots 1 Jack Dempsey (oldest
fish in tank and as sweet as can be) 1 Raphael cat, mom Kenyi and her 2
babies, (took dad out of tank picking on fish) 2 rainbow sharks, 1
jewel, 1 Severum, 1 l Lg Danio.
<Mmm, not a good setting... the Cichlids are too likely to work the
BGK woe>
2- my 55 gal setup about 2 years. Water same as above. Fish in tank - 5
Australian rainbows, 2 diamond tetra, 2 rosy barbs, 2 gold barbs,2
black skirt tetras, 2 clown loaches, 2 queen loaches, 2 Chinese algae
eaters 6 coolie loaches ,This one I'm a bit concerned about the
coolies to be eaten (looks like worms) unless I house them else
where.
<Mmm, not by the BGK, but the larger loaches might well bother an
Apteronotid too much here as well>
I do have a total of 9 fish tanks setup.
I do weekly water changes 40-50 %
<Mmm... I would limit this to about 25%... unless you're
storing, checking the make-up/exchange water, it's too easy to get
into trouble with source water quality variability>
& both these tanks run on Aqua clear 110 filtration. Also have
extra filtration systems available if I do need to add one more. Thanks
I would appreciate knowing what you think before I buy this fish. I do
have a 29
bow front but not setup yet.
Thanks!
<I would eschew the stocking of a S. American Knifefish in these
systems.
BobF>
Re: Tiger Barb is getting S shape body!
Thank you, I'd rather know now then be sorry later!
<Ahh, yes... understood, and agreed! B>
Mysterious Egg Bearing Tiger Barb
Deaths 7/27/08 I have a 55 gallon barb tank that is
mostly stocked with Tiger Barbs, males and females. The stocking is
well below capacity. The tank is mature and healthy, ammonia &
nitrites=-0-, nitrites 10ppm, pH=7.6, water is soft. <Mmm, how soft?
And how softened or is this natural?> Weekly 10% water changes are
done and bi-weekly gravel vacuuming. The tank water is crystal clear.
<All reads as good> Over the last year I have lost 4 females in
the exact same manner. The females become heavy with eggs, eating fine,
behaving normally as Tiger Barbs do. They show no signs of distress
then I find her dead the next morning and full of eggs. What could be
causing this acute problem? Thanks. Mary <Perhaps mostly
"genetics", but might I ask what you feed? Are there live
plants present, and if so, what type? Bob Fenner>
Tiger Barb Question Hi. Been
checking out your site since we started keeping tropical
fish. Very informative!! <Thank you!> My question;
I've had a couple tiger barbs for a couple of months. It
almost looks like there is a very, very light film on them at times.
The black bands don't seem as "black" as they used
to. When I looked at them with a flashlight, I could see a
green color on the scales in the black bands. I don't
know if that is the normal color or not. <This sounds as if it may
be Costia (Ichthyobodo), Please see http://www/wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfshparasites.htm
for more info on the disease and for treatment.> The tank they are
in is just about done cycling. They seem to be doing very well
otherwise. Eating, chasing, etc. <This is very good.>
Is this a fungus or disease? Or have I just been staring at
the fish too long?!? <Most likely a parasitic disease> Appreciate
your help!! Jan Emerson <You're welcome! Ronni>
Sick tiger barbs? Hi. First
thanks so much for this website. I have just started to taking care of
some tiger barbs and your site has helped ease much of my worries.
<Great to hear, thank you for the kind words!> My two 20 gallon
tanks have just finished cycling (one took a full month while the other
took two weeks) and thankfully, I did not lose any of the barbs. (7 and
6 barbs on each tank, I only found out about the odd number tip last
week.) This past week however, I noticed that in my new
tank, two of the tiger barbs looked like their black markings are
slightly green. I noticed this in some of the tiger barbs on my first
tank as well but now, these greenish stuff are gone without any
treatment. In one of the posts here, one of you said that it may be
Costia (Ichthyobodo). <Costia/Ichthyobodo/Chilodonella/other
'skin slime disease' causatives really don't fit what
you're describing. That would appear more gray and be
visible all over the sides of the fish, not restricted to only where
the black is, and it would appear as though the skin were sloughing
off. It sounds to me like normal coloration for tiger barbs,
truly. There is even a green morph of the tiger barb, in
which the black bands run together and are quite green instead of
black. I do not believe this is anything for you to worry
about.> Because of what happened to the tiger barbs in the first
tank, I am thinking of waiting and see if it will disappear especially
since the water conditions are much better now, but I am concerned that
they might not be feeling too well. I am not sure if it is normal
behaviour for two fishes to rub together (looks more like jostling for
a ball, or trying to squeeze into a tight door but without the door).
<Hmm, this is probably just dominance struggles, trying to establish
their pecking order.> My first thought was that one of the fish was
feeling itchy, and second thought was one of them (actually, Prince,
the most playful one in the 2nd tank) was just trying to play with Spot
(one of the "sick" fish) but Spot didn't want to.
<This probably isn't a concern, just keep an eye on them, and
watch for any other issues.> What do you think I should do? I am
afraid of treating Spot and his/her other friend needlessly and
subjecting them to stress again. <Agreed. I would not do
anything until you see strong evidence convincing you of a particular
illness. All sounds well so far, just keep observing and
enjoying your fish.> I am thinking of getting a hospital tank but I
can't seem to find info on what size is ok to use. Due to space
constraints, I am thinking of getting the smallest one without being
stingy on the comfort of the fish. <Just about anything can be used
in a pinch, so long as it is inert and watertight. If you
can swing space for a 10g, great, go for it.> Another...How do you
check if the fish are bloated because of overfeeding or if they are
sick? I still haven't figured out how much to feed them that I am
afraid I may be starving them (I feed them 3x, they seem to eat more
though if I give them bloodworms so I am not sure if I am feeding them
enough of the pellets). <Oh my.... feeding them three times
*daily*? Well, if they're fat, consider that the
reason. Cut back to once daily. While you're
getting them back down to 'normal' sizes, it would be fine to
skip a day here and there.> Lastly, any recommendation on what
materials I should be reading? I want to buy some more books but since
they can be expensive (and some are not value for money) I'd like
to check first before I buy. The aquarium books in the library are
checked-out! <Well, a couple of good beginners' books are
"Setting Up a Freshwater Aquarium" by Gregory Skomal and
"The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by David E.
Boruchowitz. In the Boruchowitz book, the only thing that I
wholeheartedly disagree with are his stocking suggestions in the back
of the book; I really, REALLY disagree with some of his suggestions
(such as keeping an Oscar in a 29g tank). Beyond that, these
are both decent books. If you're up for a challenge, you
might consider "Tropical Fishlopedia" by Mary Bailey and
Peter Burgess; an excellent book, but I don't usually recommend
this to children or beginners, it's really quite a lot of info to
bombard oneself with when just starting out.> Thanks so much and
sorry for the long email. <No apologies necessary, this is why
we're here. Wishing you and your barbs
well, -Sabrina.> Jade
Speckled Tigers I got 4 new tiger
barbs a week ago, and 1 hour later 2 Guppies died. Now 2 of the Barbs
swim fine if they are darting about, but when they are all together
being still, the 2 swim nose down or upside down. Now, I just noticed
tiny white specs on their fins (all 4 of them). Ammonia is perfect in
tank. Thanks a lot <Your Tiger barbs have Ick. Use salt to cure.
Read here on it's proper use to kill Ick. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32
Take note of the life cycle and continue treatment for at least two
weeks after the last spot drops. The ammonia in your tank is only
perfect if at zero. You should be testing for ammonia, nitrite and
nitrate. Do water changes to keep the first two at zero, nitrate below
20ppm. Read here on establishing bio filtration. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
Sick albino tiger barb Morning
everyone. One of my albino tiger barbs is sick and I'm not sure
what is. She can't swim straight anymore. She swims upside down and
in circles and it looks like she's wobbling when she swims.
<Yikes> Her backend looks really weak as well. She also has what
looks like two red sores on either side of her back right under her
dorsal fin. She also spends a lot of time laying upside down in one of
my plants like she's exhausted. As of yesterday she was still
eating. Ant ideas of what it is or is there anything I can do for her?
<Maybe trouble with an all dry food diet... likely not a biological
disease if your other barbs are not affected... maybe a congenital
defect...> I have her in a 35 gallon community tank. I always add
aquarium salt when I do a water change. Oh and I do two water changes a
month, and the water is kept at 77-78 degrees. There's an Emperor
bio-wheel for filtration. The tank has been up and running for two
years. Thanks for your help. -Heather <Sounds like a nice system and
that you know what you're doing... What do you feed your fishes? I
would try some fresh/frozen food, like brine shrimp, Daphnia once a
day... perhaps a teaspoon of Epsom Salts per five gallons of water...
Bob Fenner>
All fish out
... Rambling re... cichlid, livestock/human responsibility, old tiger
barbs? 10/3/06 Hello, I
had a cichlid that got to <Too> big for my 20 gal, No one told me
when I bought it at the pet store how big it was going to get. <...
Don't hold yourself in bad faith... The onus is upon you to
investigate such matters...> Now I try to do my own research before
I buy. <Yay!> I gave him to a place that I thought would attract
serious fish keepers, he was up to around 6 inches, (a peacock)
<Beautiful animals> and was in that tank a couple of years by
himself. He was in hard water with a ph at or above 8.4. I
put 3 young tiger barbs in immediately after the
cichlid was given away , then a week and a
half later I put three more young tigers in. This tank is at
my mothers' house so I was able to check 4 days later and 3 died
one from the first group and two from the second. I have a ten gal. up
and running so I put them in this tank. I see one looks to
have fin rot on the caudal and anal fin, so I put in Nitrofurazone and
Furazolidone in yesterday, all is o.k. so far. My question is, was the
pH. to high for them or was the water to hard? <Mmm, not for this
species... or shouldn't have been should I state. To some extent
depends on the conditions these fish were kept, reared in... but likely
had stress et al. issues...> One of those barbs from the first group
was a couple year old tiger from that ten gal. that there in now, where
he lived in not so hard with lower p. h. <Ahh!> He seemed a
little frantic as time went on but his color was good. Over the 2 weeks
or so his color is still good but he looks gaunt( if fish can look
gaunt). <Oh yes, can> He is the one that has the fins that look
ragged. Its not bad yet but his over all appearance is not healthy, and
he is not eating well. Another question is the tank that the tigers
were in that is now empty and has been for 2 days, are the bacteria in
that tank still active or do I need to start from scratch with this
tank if I am going to put fish in it again?
<Yes to the bacteria still
being there,
useful...> Thank
you Sherri <...? Maybe the Barbs are/were just "old"...
Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/BarbsDaniosRasborasArt.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Tiger
Barbs and fin recovery 7/20/06 Great web page, we
have really enjoyed it and learned a lot. I think you have saved a lot
of fish! <Aye, yes> I have a twenty gallon tank with six Tiger
Barbs. We started with three Tiger Barbs and added three more after
they spent time in the quarantine tank. The three / three idea was
courtesy of the LFS. Both tanks have cycled and water tests look good.
We added the second three barbs a week ago and last night I noticed one
of the Barbs had a damaged tail fin. <Not uncommon... nippy
species> He appears well otherwise, so I suspect he was
"nipped" by a tank mate. One of the barbs is VERY dominant.
<Very common> I quickly moved the injured fish to the quarantine
tank. Because the damage doesn't appear to go too far into the fin,
will the fin heal? <Likely so, yes> How is the little guy going
to fare on his own during recovery? <Should be fine> I hear Tiger
barbs don't care to be alone. Should I have removed the aggressive
Barb? <Keep observing... you should be able to discern who the
culprit is... I would "switch out" the mean one for the
nipped one in a few weeks when the latter is healed... And consider
adding or removing one to maintain this batch in an odd-numbered
school... Much better for dynamics...> (I'm not sure he's
the guilty one) Thanks Tom <You will be. Bob
Fenner>
Mass Tiger Barb deaths - 5/5/2006 Hi
Crew! <<Greetings, Steve. Tom here.>> Thanks in advance for
your wonderful work. I've been a fan for a long time,
and find your site very helpful when Googling for
answers. This time, though, I'm at wit's end and am
moved to write. <<Thanks for the kind and encouraging words,
Steve. Now, let's see what's going on...>> My setup is a
freshwater 72 gallon bow. Tank is planted with hornwort and
has a gravel substrate. Two AquaClear 50 (the new
designation; not the old) filters, two four-foot daylight fluorescents,
one three-foot actinic, and one-three foot daylight fluorescent; all
lights on timers. A few natural rocks. Tank is kept at 77 to
78 degrees. 14 percent water changes are performed every ten
days using tap water and chorine/chloramine
remover/conditioner. Water quality has always been
consistent since cycling: Ammonia = Zero, Nitrites = Zero,
Nitrates <5, pH = 7.6. Aquarium salt is added
occasionally, but never enough to register more than a flicker on my
specific gravity tester, which has as it's lowest reading 1.010
(the needle rests at what would be 1.008). I also have an
adjustable aerator which comes on when the lights go off. I keep it at
a very low setting. <<Good filtration (I'm a fan of these
filters), conditions exceptional, good-sized tank. All seems very good,
so far.>> The current population consists of 9 diamond tetras, 11
cardinal tetras, 4 bloodfin tetras, 3 red velvet swordtails, 3 Siamese
algae eaters (definitely not Chinese), one silver molly, one black
Sailfin molly, one Otocinclus, and, until yesterday, 7 tiger
barbs. All fish were added over an initial 2 or 3 month
period after cycling, with the exception of the diamonds which were
used after the first week of cycling (no losses ever with them).
<<I confess to being a proponent of fishless cycling but, no harm
here. Definitely no over-stocking issues.>> I keep a running log
of absolutely everything that happens to the tank; whether changing
water, cleaning a filter, or scrubbing algae. And the tank
finished cycling 8 months ago. <<Love this; an excellent
practice!>> Losses over that 8 month period have been occasional.
Two cardinals at widely separated intervals (one died about a week
after coming home from the LFS, and the other died about 6 weeks ago
colorless and bloated), three bloodfins also at widely separated
intervals (two were obviously weak sisters from the LFS, another died
within a month after coming home and had a deep internal whiteness to
the flesh just behind the dorsal; thought perhaps it might be tetra
disease, but no problems since), and one swordtail which was lost about
a week after she gave birth five weeks ago (she had developed an
internal lump on one side about where an ovary or womb would be and was
extremely lethargic after delivering fry until her death).
<<These occurrences go, sadly, with the territory - hopefully
minimally, though.>> The swordtails seem to require more brackish
water than I'm willing to keep. Every two months or so,
they develop a very thin whitish film (not grainy at all) and will
flash a bit, and I transfer them to a quarantine tank where I slowly
add salt to a brackish level. They remain there for a day or
two or three, perk right up, film gone, whereupon I do one partial
water change before putting them back in the tank. <<Interesting
treatment of the Swordtails. I would typically expect the need for
higher salinity levels with Mollies rather than Swordtails or Platys.
(The three are so closely associated I sometimes start thinking of them
as one fish with different names.) :)>> I feed flake three times
a day; about as much as can be consumed in a minute. Every
other day I substitute thawed bloodworms for one of the flake
feedings. So, I see these fish quite often (I work at home).
<<Again, good feeding practice.>> Getting to the
point: Yesterday afternoon I found that four of the tigers
had died. No obvious signs of distress or
disease. At that time, I noticed that one of the others was
breathing very rapidly and pointing up (normally they point down when
resting or displaying). The other two were fine, chasing
each other normally. I bagged the four dead ones (two males,
two females) and refrigerated for later transport to the
LFS. By the time I was ready to leave, the distressed one
had passed, and I bagged him too. <<I'm sorry and, amazed, to
hear this.>> A note on the LFS: This is a large
aquarium store which distributes fish to some of the chain stores in
the area. Fish and aquarium supplies only; no other
pets. The personnel there have always been a knowledgeable
group. <<Okay.>> I took the fish and a bottle of water for
testing. Their test kits are no better than mine (I use
chemical-type tests), and their results matched mine. No
answers there. He noted that my tigers were a bit fat, but
not too much. In counter-point I mentioned that the tigers
know no limits when competing with the other fish for food, which is
why I feed the way I do. He suggested also that I do more
frequent water changes for the time being, with which I
concurred. By the time I got home, another tiger had
died. This was about three hours since the one before; three
hours which go from no symptoms to death. <<In your case, the
more-frequent water changes would be placebo-like in nature. Not bad
advice, at all, and frequently recommended by me/us. However, I still
don't see a "connection" here.>> The only change
I've made to the normal tank routine of the past several months is
one which coincides with the death of the fish. I added a
second aerator the night before all these fish died, mostly for the
attached night light. It's an Ario 4. Like
the first aerator, I keep this one on the lowest power
setting. I mentioned that to the LFS guy, and, while
we're both thinking that it's in the realm of possibility that
the new device is leaching something into the water, it's highly
unlikely. <<Agreed.>> So, I did a partial water change last
night, and rinsed the new light/aerator and sponge thoroughly and put
it back in the tank. This morning the final tiger was
symptomatic and then died a short time later. Up until this point, all
the other fish have been fine. As I started writing this, I
went to check again. One of the cardinals has
died. No symptoms, and his color was still vivid, which is
unusual in a dying cardinal. <<Agreed once more.>> To sum
up, I don't want to lead me or you down any paths, but for all the
tigers to have died in 24 hours with no other fish affected seems
unusual in the extreme, especially since tigers are not an animal given
to delicacy when compared to some of the others I have. That
one of the cardinals has died just outside that 24 hour envelope may be
construed as related, but inconclusive given their more delicate
nature. I put all this to you. <<Steve, you don't
mention whether, or not, any of your fish were quarantined (two weeks
minimum) prior to being introduced into the display tank. Frankly,
while I would highly recommend this, to the point of being a
"given", I don't believe your Tigers necessarily came
from the distributor sick. Certainly not sick enough to die in such a
short period of time without any symptoms. Something going on in your
tank killed these fish and the only thing that "jumps out" at
me is stray electrical voltage from the new night light/aerator. Am I
doing some "grasping" here. Oh, yes! But, the coincidence of
adding the new equipment with the sudden death of these animals is
pretty compelling. If your power source isn't on a "ground
fault interrupter" (GFI) circuit, please rectify this immediately.
At the minimum, there are "plug-in" GFI's available at
Home Depot, Lowe's, et. al., that can be plugged into your
electrical outlet. (These resemble plug-in surge suppressors.) As to
why the Barbs were the only fish affected (except for, potentially,
your Cardinal) under my hypothesis, I can't, honestly, give you a
good answer. Stress from being handled/moved leading to susceptibility,
perhaps? Relative size? Does the aquarium salt without acclimation play
a factor? Unknowns, unfortunately.>> Thanks again for your time.
Steve in Ohio. <<Wish I had a "silver bullet" answer
for you, Steve. Tom>>
Green Tiger Barbs - at a loss...
3/16/06 Bob, <Ralph> I've a 90 gallon that I recently
switched back to freshwater. Original intent was to have
mostly cichlids, again. Only real aggressive fish was to be
a Green Terror ( my last was essentially a peacekeeper who bothered no
one except feeders though he got to be 10"). <Yikes!>
Looking at some other sites I found a couple decent compatibility lists
and have also ended up with some barbs as well. <Easygoing
ones/species I trust> The only problem I keep having is the loss of
green tiger barbs. I've lost seven from three different
batches from the same LFS. <Mmm, know that these are sometimes
"wanky" from dealers... are raised in the Far East, often
"hormone treated" to boost color... That this degrades their
health otherwise... often lost on/near arrival anomalously...>
I've currently 3 more from another store - one has nipped fins and
is acting a little odd. As for the goners- two for sure had
nipped fins especially dorsal tail. The last two had upper
fins that looked like they were flaying/separating - like a feather and
for a week or so I would catch the one upside down as if dead until
another fish would come near! No signs of any Ick, Fungus,
rot or anything else apparently wrong. I am at a loss as to what is
going on- the goners were the largest of the
Barbs.. I've two Albino Tiger Barbs, four Tiger barbs,
<And these are the same species... mixable> two rosy, one gold
and four longer (tigerish) barbs. They have been doing great
and most have been in the tank since the beginning (@3
months). Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates are
great. Ph and Temp acceptable for all. I've also two
Giant Danios, one Plecostomus, one Green Terror, one Jewel Cichlid, a
pair of Rainbow Cichlids, one small Firemouth, a Cat, and a couple
1/2-3/4" Africans. ( .99 cent sale). <Mmm, well, the cichlids
might be working the new Green Barbs woe...> They are feed a variety
of dried, pellet, flake, frozen and live food. Today I
bought more live Brine shrimp and some feeder guppies. The
largest fish are one of the Danios and the Rainbows 3" - 3
1/2". Other than feeder guppies I've lost no fish other than
the aforementioned Green Tiger Barbs. Plenty of caves, plants and wood
for hiding. Thanks for your time. Ralph L Thieleman <I encourage you
to "harden" a new batch of these barbs... buy, place them in
another tank, moving water from your ninety for water changes... for a
few to several weeks. When transferring to your main tank, do move
about the decor items there (to disrupt territories, impose a new
dynamic)... If there is "psychological" as well as metabolic
room for them all, this should do it. Bob Fenner>
Re: Green Tiger Barbs - at a
loss... 3/17/06 Bob, <Ralph>
Thanks for the reply. <Welcome> I still don't understand why
only the green ones. I had them First, in-between and now
last. I see no one harassing them. With the first
ones I did see them bothering each other. I see the longer
Barbs "playing" and chasing each other as well as cichlids
chasing other cichlids. <I do believe these "green" sports
are less hardy than their brethren period...> I again have a green
that since his lower tail looks chewed has become more solitary the
past week but I've another green now that his top fin looks
likes it is fraying like some others had. One of them looked
like he was sideways at the top last weekend as well. Why
only the greens? <Genetics? Poorer care in Singapore where they very
likely originated?> Some cichlids have had their tails chewed on by
other cichlids. One even lost an eye. No
deaths. Just Green Tiger Barbs. And again I see
no signs of them getting picked on even by each other, especially with
these last three. <Perhaps the green ones are more
"attractive" to whoever may be harassing them (likely the
Terror, at night)... This is a common phenomenon (differential
mortality/predation based on color, markings... a fave thesis project
some years back)> If I lose these I'll most likely give up on
that variation. Thanks again, Ralph L Thieleman <I don't blame
you... There are other species of barbs... though your system is
over-stocked psychologically now... Bob Fenner>
Tiger Barbs And Exophthalmia - 11/15/2005 Hey
guys, <And gals - Sabrina with you today.> I have a question
about what seems to be an eye infection in one of my tiger barbs.
<Alright.> I have a lightly stocked 72 gallon planted community
tank. My parameters are all good, pH 6.8-7, nitrites, ammonia all 0.
<Great. Nitrate?> Recently one of tiger barbs developed a cloudy,
popped out eye. Only one eye developed this. I've had them for a
couple of years with no problems, and as no other fish, tigers or
others, displayed this, I decided to watch and see if it was a sign of
natural age related disease. <It actually may be injury-related.>
I do weekly or biweekly water changes and since my parameters are fine
I do not think it is a water quality issue. <Check those nitrate
readings. This can impact exophthalmia/pop-eye.> If it was, then
other fish would display signs of stress as well most likely. I just
noticed that the barb died and a second one developed the same popped
out, clouded eye (though it isn't as developed yet). Otherwise it
also seems fine, as do all of the other fish. Does anyone have
experience with this? How would I definitely diagnose and treat it?
<I would first suspect injury, here.... Fish have a natural tendency
to bite at eyes. Tiger barbs are nippy animals. Try watching them for a
bit and see if you see any aggressive behaviour among them, or if
perhaps one fish specifically is causing the others extraordinary
amounts of stress.> All help is appreciated. At this point I
wouldn't bother quarantining because if it has been transmitted
than most likely it is in the water already, unless the treatments
would kill the plants. <Mm, better to pull the affected
fish.... Even if it is a bacterial infection of some sort, it may not
have transmitted to other fish as yet. Furthermore, if the animal HAS
been injured, it will give it time to recover.> Thanks, -Eric
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina>
Tiger Barbs And Exophthalmia - II - 11/16/2005
Thanks for the advice. I will watch and see if there is an overly
aggressive behavior. <Excellent.> I haven't tested for
nitrates because all of the test kits I have only include nitrite tests
so I was under the impression that I can only infer my nitrates from my
nitrites. <The two are actually quite different. One can be quite
low, the other quite high.... do please try to find a test kit for
nitrate and check on it.> Eric <Wishing you well,
-Sabrina>
Sudden Unexplained Barb Death - 11/06/2005 Hi
Whoever, <Sabrina, today.> I was wondering if anyone here could
provide some thoughts on what we experienced today. Tonight after
feeding with a standard commercial food, that we have been using for a
couple of months, one of our Tiger Barbs immediately started to look
pretty bad and stopped swimming. Within 5 minutes it was dead. We
checked the body but there were no obvious signs of any damage or
bloating. We guessed it may have injured itself while feeding, although
we don't know how. <Any chances some sort of toxin or
contaminant got into the food? Had you been handling anything highly
toxic prior to feeding them?> Prior to this all had seemed well and
through the day no problems were observed. We have/had 7 barbs in a
planted community tank with Cardinal tetras, Harlequin Rasboras and 2
Flying Foxes so the barbs are mainly the dominate inhabitants. Ammonia
is nil and Nitrates at 15ppm (No test kit for Nitrites). <As
nitrite is highly toxic, I recommend you think about getting a kit to
test it.> So not much to go on I know and not much we can do now
but.... <True.... just enough to grasp at straws. It does sound as
if it could have been injury-related, or perhaps from some sort of
toxin, but again, there's just not enough evidence for anything
specific.> Thanks for your thoughts. <Very sorry for your loss,
-Sabrina>
Barb, odd growth 9/5/05 One of our tiger
barbs has developed an odd, pink growth over one of his
eyes. It's difficult to get a good look at, because
he's still behaving normally (i.e., never sitting still) but from
symptoms I've read it doesn't sound like it's pop eye,
because it's not the eye itself but a growth above the eye that is
sticking out. In addition, the scales midway down his length
on the same side as the growth appear to be developing a sore or
irritated patch. Any thoughts? By the way, you
guys are the best, you've helped us out a bunch in the past. Greg
and Debbie. <Likely resultant from a physical injury... Please read
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/BDRDisFAQs.htm
Bob Fenner>
Ill Tiger Barb - 08/26/2005 My name is
Mark. <Hi Mark, Sabrina with you today.> I got your
name off of a Tiger Barb website I came across. One of my
barbs is sick and has a white stomach and is swimming in
circles. What can I do to help it? <Mm, too
vague a description.> I read iodized salt??? but how much if that is
true? Any help would be greatly appreciated. <Do a search
on "whirling disease" and
"Myxobolus".... Be testing for ammonia, nitrite,
and nitrate, and keep ammonia and nitrite at ZERO, and nitrate less
than 20ppm.... Beyond that, there is not enough information
here to go off.> Thanks, Mark <Wishing you and your
barb well, -Sabrina>
Hello, hello, my Tiger Barbs are going oh!
11/27/06 Dear fish experts please help, <Will
try> I tried to take pics of my poor poor tiger
barbs...but none turned out well enough to bother. My tank is a 40
gallon, I have to <two?> very old golden Gouramis and 2 old
silver dollars and two new ones, a Plecostomus, and I had 6 tiger
barbs, Im down to 4... Im new at the whole aquarium thing I
didn't know about water changes, I wished I had done more
research.. <How about now?> anyhow my tiger barbs were great
happy and brought so much life to my tank. after having them for 3 days
I wake up to see 2 of them with their mouths and little faces all red
and puffy and swollen. No white fuzz or any fin or body problems. but
their mouths in very bad shape over night! so I ran
immediately to the pet store and told them my fishes faces looked
terrible like they were falling off, they the women told me to put
malefix <... Melafix? The Melaleuca "tea" leaf extract
product from AP> in the tank and this would fix them up <No>
and to do a water change before and after 25%. <Good idea> I did
this 3 days go by. None of them die and they are still trying very hard
to eat and seem pretty active, but no change and I notice now 4 have
this. so I call a couple pet stores ask when this will start to improve
tell them the situation, and they say a week or two, and read the same
thing on line. (though I still keep hearing that they should have some
white fuzz on them, and they must have been fighting - which neither is
the case), anyhow I get worried and they look so horrid, that I risk
the worst one to stress and take him and some water into the pet store
to test it and look at him. I have one guy look at my poor
fave fish and make a disgusted face and get the other guy. He says to
add Maracyn 2 <Better "shot in the dark" here> to the
tank and keep doing the MelaFix (that all the melafiz was doing is
keeping it from spreading to other fish)... <Not even this> he
didn't tell me what my fish had and I had to chase him to ask
questions... so disappointed and 25$ later I get my fish
home and they didn't do a water test he said there was no point and
it happened because I didn't do a water change soon enough...which
he was so condescending I wanted to cry I feel bad enough...
well I get home return the very ill fish and add the 8 tabs
of Maracyn like the guy said, and an hour later my fish died. I knew
the stress may get him... <Yes> but then within the
next 2 hours another one died, and now I have another Im sure will be
dead soon. Im sorry, but my question is, what do I do to
try and save my poor 4 remaining tiger barbs, and what the heck is this
and what can I do to save them, Im so at a loss! I don't want this
to happen ever again to any fish I get (which will be a long time).
please any info, thx so much, I hope you return my email, I
need answers. Tammy <Well... let's start somewhere toward a
beginning here Tam... You need to know, supply information re your
water quality... pH, ammonia and more are really the likely root cause
of your problem here. Please take the time to read on WWM re...
starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwdis3setsfactors.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
White spots and Tiger Barbs - 03/02/07 Hi,
<Hello> I am very confused. <Hopefully we can help with
that.> I don't know what is wrong with my tank. I have a 30
gallon freshwater tank. My particular concern is with the tank itself.
There are white, salt-like dots on the inside of the tank. When you run
your fingers on the tank walls, they feel bumpy and come off fairly
easily. I also think they are on the live plants I have. They do not
seem to be getting worse, but I don't know what to do. The pH is
7.0, temp is 79-80 (I have airstones), ammonia, nitrates and nitrites
are all negative and I have verified this with two different test kits.
I cannot attach a picture because any pictures I have tried to take,
you cannot see the dots. <Wondering if it might be calcium
precipitate? Do you have very hard water? Are
they hard to the touch or squishy?> Also, I have three tiger barbs,
and I think one of them is bullying the other two, to the point of
extreme stress. <Not atypical for this species.> One
of the tiger barbs is changing colors and not due to the light.
<Stress coloring.> One second he is his usual darker color and
the next second he is very very light. This color change happens so
quickly and is constant. I have also noticed he sometimes hides in a
corner with his head pointed down. <Hiding from the
aggressor.> I do not know if this is a symptom of bulling
or not. <Yes unfortunately.> He seems to be eating fairly well,
however he does not like to come out from his corner a
lot. <As long as he is still eating there is hope.> He
has never been incredibly social, but he is becoming more and more
withdrawn. <The weakest of the trio, lowest in the pecking
order.> He is also breathing very fast. I have not noticed anything
on him, such as cuts, parasites, etc. Should I remove the other fish
from the group or is he sick? <Well stress often allows
illness to take hold, but without more symptoms I would guess he is
just getting picked on. Might want to remove the Alpha fish
for a couple weeks if possible, give the weaker ones a chance to fatten
up and establish themselves. Depending on other stock might
want to add a few more so one does not get all the attention, best if
kept in odd numbers, so add 2 or 4 more. Watch the weak one
closely for signs of disease and be prepared to separate if
necessary.> Thanks for your help. Sara <Chris>
Tiger Barbs Dying 2/22/07 Hi, <Jasmine>
This is the first time I have ever written anyone about anything, but
here goes. I have a 29 gallon community tank which
originally consisted of: 1 paradise fish, 1 rosy barb, 1 gold barb, 1
cherry barb, <Mmm, a comment as we go along... these barbs are
better kept in small groups... are social animals> 1 Australian
rainbowfish, <Ditto> 1 gold Gourami, 1 red-tail Botia, 1 rainbow
shark, 1 Pleco, & 1 freshwater snail. <Very surprised to find
the Botia hasn't killed this snail> This tank has
been set up for 3 months now with no problems
whatsoever. 2 days ago, I decided that I wanted to
"spice" up my tank with some tiger barbs. I went
to PetSmart and bought 2 tiger barbs, 1 green tiger barb, & 1
albino tiger barb. <And this species best kept in small,
odd-numbers... three, five... to "keep each other busy"> I
know that I shouldn't have, but I introduced them to my
community. (I'm sort of new at this and now know that I
should have quarantined them for at least 2 weeks) The fish
seemed happy and healthy with no signs of problems.
The next morning, one of the tiger barbs was swimming on its side in
circles and breathing rapidly. I removed him from the tank,
but needless to say, the tiger barb died. I checked my water
levels and everything seemed fine, even added some fish-pen <?
don't know what this is> just in case. The other
tigers seemed to be fine. I had my husband take the dead
tiger barb back to the store and exchange him for another
one. We brought him home and introduced him to the
community. Again, there seemed to be no
problems. This morning, my albino tiger barb was exhibiting
the same sort of actions. Swimming on it's side in
circles, all over the tank, very erratically. I removed him
from the tank, but needless to say, the albino now has
died. The other 3 tiger barbs seem fine, but I am worried
that maybe this is a parasite? <Maybe> I am also
worried that it could be spread all over my tank and I may lose other
fish as well. I don't know what to do. I
don't think this originated in my tank, because all my other fish
seem healthy. Please help?!?! Again, neither of
the 2 fish that I've lost have exhibited any sign of illness prior.
I do weekly 30% water changes and add 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per 5
gallons and as I said, I checked my water levels, and they are fine.
Thanks in advance, Jasmine <Well... it may be that these
new barbs really just died due to "stress"... most are
raised, shipped from the Far East... hormone-treated... Though
sometimes they are parasitized... most notably with Octomita/Hexamita
(which you can search)... At this junction I would do nothing to guess,
treat the system... but as you state, I would be careful re
quarantining new livestock going forward. Bob Fenner>
Tiger barb sick or just stressed? 1/7/07 Crew:
<Karen> I have searched the internet and your website for a
solution to my current problem but haven't come across much good
information about tiger barbs. <A neat species... many
beautiful "sports" nowadays> I have 46 gallon moderately
planted bowfront dedicated to tiger barbs. It's been up
and running for a couple months now with 9 barbs (3 tiger, 3 albino,
and 3 green). The tank parameters as of yesterday were
ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. All the fish have
been active until recently one of the tiger barbs has been hanging out
in a top corner of the aquarium. It is probably the smallest
of the 9 barbs in the tank. It just doesn't seem to be
thriving very well. <Mmm, and should do fine here...
enough space, good water quality...> I try to watch at feeding time
to see if it is eating. It will ignore feeding time at first
then start to seem interested. It swims over to the food
with the others but as soon as another barb comes along it hurries back
to it's corner. On the occasion it gets to some food, it
just spits it back out. It will try this a few times then
just give up and hide in it's corner. I have been
observing the feeding behavior for the past few days. The
hiding in the corner behavior has been going on for 1-2
weeks. <Likely a social/psychological component at play
here... the one may be a smaller male, with other males badgering it a
bit> I wondered if it was just a stress/getting picked on situation
as there is one albino barb that seems to be the dominant one chasing
the others around the tank. <Mmm, yes, possibly> I
have had more barbs in quarantine waiting to go into the tank, so
yesterday I added 4 of those to try to divert the dominant one's
attention and give the "runt" a chance. <Good
idea> Last night I removed the ailing or stressed barb to a divided
portion of the quarantine tank (the fish are disease free, just waiting
to be added slowly to the main tank) to give it a chance to rest and
get food without competition. <Also good> Do you
suggest I just wait and see if it starts eating or could there be some
sickness going on? <I would do the former, not worry re the
latter... Next trial, I'd move the alpha fish... to the quarantine
for a week or two> The only reason I would think it might have some
kind of infection is the taking food in and spitting it back out
behavior. All the other barbs it's been living with seem
to be fine. <With this much time having gone by (since setting up,
stocking) there is very little chance of this being an expression of
infectious or parasitic disease. Could be genetic, developmental...>
I do have medicated food I could offer it but since it's not really
eating currently I don't see how that will help. I have
other medications but I don't want to go dumping them in when
I'm not even sure if it is sick or not. Any suggestions
you may have on what course of action I should take would be
appreciated. Thanks! Karen <I would do as you have thus far... Do
you have a bit of greenery present for multiple purposes? Food, making
cover, improving water quality? I suggest adding a "bunch"
(un-tied) of a grass type plant... my pick would be Elodea/Anacharis.
Please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/elodea.htm
Bob Fenner> Re: Tiger barb sick or just stressed?
1/8/07 I ended up adding the barb back to the main tank as it
didn't seem to be interested in eating anything while in quarantine
and I like to think conditions are more favorable environmentally in
the main tank. <Yes, likely so> There are plants
available in the tank for them to browse on. <Good> I
specifically added some Anacharis to the quarantine tank, but still no
interest. <Mmm, takes time... days to weeks for fishes to
"settle in" to being moved> I'm thinking I will just
let it be in the main tank and see what happens. It's rather
emaciated it seems at this point so I'm not sure this will end up a
success story. <Mmm... do want to mention another possibility...
that the wasting mentioned might be due to (Myco) bacteria or a
protozoan... the last very common with freshwater cultured fishes from
the Far East (where these Barbs very likely originated... can be
treated with Metronidazole/Flagyl...)... Do keep your attention on the
other fish for such sign... and be aware of treatment probabilities>
I guess I will just hope he turns around soon unless you have other
suggestions? <Mmm, none at this point> I haven't
tried eliminating the dominant one as there hasn't been much
behavior like that going on since new barbs were added, so I
wouldn't be able to guess right now at which one has been
dominating. If I happen to notice a specific one I will see
about taking it out of the tank. Thanks for your help! Karen <And
you for this follow-up. Bob Fenner>
Re: Tiger barb sick or just stressed? 1/9/07 Thanks for
your response. I haven't done anything further with the
barb, he was still hanging on this morning, but seemed to be resting
among some exposed sword roots. I currently don't see
him, will have to do some searching around but I fear I know his
fate. One thing I do want to mention is that I have a couple
other smaller barbs that aren't thriving all that well either in
the same tank. <A bad sign...> I also have a couple that seem to
have recurrent swim bladder problems. They swim alright but
once they stop they tend to "head stand". <Can be genetic,
or developmental/damage at play here> I have taken to giving them
sinking granules or soaking flake food for a bit before feeding as I
read that it's possible they just ingest too much air at feeding
time since they are voracious eaters. <Yes... this and/or
gasification of solid foods internally> However, even with the
treatment to food they seem to continue having this
problem. That being said, I wonder if there is some kind of
bacterial infection going on that's affecting the smaller barbs
perhaps? <Is a possibility, yes> Would you recommend treating the
entire tank with something such as you suggested? I would
hate to lose more barbs just from a failure to take
action. Thanks for your continued help. Karen <Is a
"tough one" to gauge from here... all such treatments have
their real and potential downsides, but I would investigate the use of
a compound (anti-parasitic and anti-microbial) "laced" dried
food... O.S.I. and Tetra used to make these... You can search WWM, the
Net in general re... Bob Fenner>
Tiger Barbs 4/3/07 I have 4 tiger barbs, they seem to be
pretty healthy but sometimes one of them swims nose down & stays
like that for sometime by the driftwood. Is that normal for tiger barbs
to do that? <This behavior is often in response to poor water
conditions, especially high levels of nitrate. Please check
your water parameters.> <Chris>
Sick fish, Tiger Barbs 5/25/07 Hi there,
<Devin> Well, I've looked around and have conflicted
information <Heeee!> so I thought I'd write you before it
gets too far along. I think I have some sick tiger
barbs. I have 6 of them in a cycled 29 gallon
tank. Parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10
nitrates. One of the tiger barbs has stopped eating 3 days
ago, looks like he is gulping for air, and swims in the same place all
day. The other fish still eat and swim normally, although I
just saw another barb excrete a more clear/stringy feces than I have
previously seen. Other than that, they look healthy and
colorful. Now I have read several things that it's
probably an intestinal infection of some sort but I don't know how
to treat it. <Mmm, I do... I would offer a mix of an anti-protozoal
and anthelminthic... The first I'd look for Metronidazole/Flagyl,
the second, likely Prazi(quantel)... though other materia medica might
be employed... These can be applied as food additives, or pre-made
foods with them incorporated... best, or added to the water... Their
use is covered on WWM> I don't have a QT (I know, I know, I just
can't afford an extra filter, heater etc.). So what do
you think is wrong and what medication should I use? <Likely
Octomita...> I need a medication that won't wipe on
my established bacteria in my tank. Much thanks in advance, Devin
<Agreed and welcome. Bob Fenner>
Tiger barbs hlth. 05/05/07 Hello. <Hello!> I found you
website very informative and thought I would throw out a question for
you. <Okeley dokeley.> I currently have a 29 gal. aquarium that
is stocked with 3 tetras, 3 tiger barbs, 4 speckled mollies, a large
Pleco, a small Chinese algae eater and a bumblebee catfish. <Too
many fish for such a small tank, and many incompatible with each other
for water chemistry and behavioral reasons. Please research fish
*before* buying them.> My question is pertaining to my tiger barbs.
I had three tiger barbs for approximately 2 years, and about
6 months ago I noticed that they began developing facial deformities,
mostly to the mouth. One of them had a jaw that appeared to grow
swollen over a period of weeks until he could no longer eat. They have
since died. <Mouth fungus more than likely. Very common when fish
are kept in overcrowded aquaria or tanks with poor water quality.>
About 4 months ago I purchased 3 baby tiger barbs. They were all
healthy when purchased and were purchased from a reputable fish dealer.
One died in the past few weeks, and I noticed today that the other two
also have some sort of jaw problem. The one appears to have lost the
tip of his upper lip, and the second one appears like his jaw is
swollen. They both continue to eat well, as did the other before they
died (until the mouth was to closed up to allow food in). <If you
can't explain why a species fails to survive in your aquarium, it
is pretty foolish to go buy some more specimens of that species.
Identify the cause, fix the problem, *then* go buy some more.> Now
that I think of it, I did have a zebra Danio that had a tumor growing
in his abdomen until he died, and I also had a molly that was quite
healthy for over a year before growing small tumor like lumps to her
face and dying. <Far too many sick, dead fish. Tiger barbs should be
living around 4 years, Danios about the same.> I do basic water
tests and everything seems to come out within normal ranges.
<What's the "normal range" in your opinion? There is
no normal range for ammonia or nitrite for example -- these should be
zero, period, end of story. For your fishes, the pH should be around
7.2-7.5, given you have mollies that despise acidic water conditions.
I'd also want "moderately hard" water using whatever
scale you are measuring hardness by. Frankly, the mollies shouldn't
be in this tank because they do best in brackish water, and the Plec
and Chinese algae eater certainly shouldn't, the first because it
is far too large (30-45 cm) and the second because it is both large (30
cm) and nasty-tempered.> Do I just seem to be having bad luck with
fish and tumors/deformities? <Not bad luck. Bad fishkeeping. Please
read some more about the hobby before killing any more fishes.> Or
do you think there could be something in the water that is actually
causing this? <Yes, two things are in the water: [a] pollution of
some type and [b] too many fishes.> Are tiger barbs predisposed to
anything? <Nope.> As all mine seem to be affected. I would love
to hear your opinion on this!! <You have it. Now, before going
forward, measure the nitrite, ammonia, pH and hardness, and then get
back to us. What type of filter are you using? What is its turnover?
Baseline, you need a filter offering turnover of around 4x the volume
of the tank per hour, so the filter should be 120 gallons per hour in
your case.> Thanks so much. <No problems.> Julie Rutt
<Cheers, Neale>
Tiger
Barb Mortality Rate 11/5/07 Dear WetWebMedia, <Hello,>
I have a rather perplexing issue. I recently had a spare 55g
setup that was cycled and in good shape. Ammonia, Nitrite,
Nitrates all 0, pH = 7.6, GH = 160 ppm, KH = 100 ppm (hard
water). I also have a cycled 10g QT tank of the same water
chemistry. Also, I do keep aquarium salt in all my tanks at the
recommended dose. <Hmm... no recommended dose of salt in my
fishkeeping world. Salt is simply not required in a freshwater
aquarium in this modern age of proper filters and regular water
changes. The main job of salt these days is to make money for the
salt manufacturers and the retailers.> All of the fish
mentioned below are juveniles, about 1 inch long. I decided I
wanted a barb tank so I started with 4 Black Rubies. Two weeks in
the QT, all survived and into the 55g. Next came 5 Rosy barbs,
same procedure, 2 week in QT then into the 55g. Here comes the
problem. <OK.> I placed 6 Tiger barbs in the QT tank. By
the time the 2 weeks were up only 3 were left. The three that
died started breathing heavily, then hiding, then floating, then
dead. I have not seen this type of death in anything other than
Neon Tetras which I don't keep anymore as they are not
compatible with my water chemistry. The 3 that survived went into
the 55g and are happy and healthy, but being Tiger Barbs 3 are
not enough. <Very odd.> I went to a different fish store
and got 6 more Tiger Barbs, only 2 survived of this lot. Is there
something about Tiger Barbs and my water chemistry? <Sounds
unlikely. Tiger Barbs are tolerant across a range of water
chemistry values. They should be fine in your tank. How much salt
do you add? Taking fish from a retailer's tank without salt
and sticking them in a tank with salty water could be
problematic. But to be honest unless you're adding masses of
salt (more than, say, 9 grammes per litre) than it's hard to
imagine this would a cause of death.> Since they are so
closely related to the Black Rubies one would think they would
have a similar mortality rate. <Agreed. They are basically
identical in terms of needs.> I am currently on hold with the
mass executions of Tiger Barbs. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated. <Do you do any gardening? Sometimes a species of
plant just doesn't take no matter what. I think fish can
sometimes work like that too. A combination of factors makes them
unsuitable for your aquaria: water chemistry, diet, water change
regimen, tankmates, etc. For me, that species is Neon Tetras; no
matter what, they never last. So I don't bother with them. So
my advice is skip the Tiger Barbs and try something like Puntius
pentazona instead.> Regards, Larry <Good luck,
Neale>
Re:
Tiger Barb Mortality Rate 11/8/07 Dear Dr. Neale Thank you
for the prompt reply, I will follow your advise and change barb
directions. I would like to continue the discussion of salt in
freshwater aquariums. I think many of your readers would like to
understand this. There is a controversy on the internet about
this subject. I want to do what is best for my pets and if salt
is unnecessary of harmful I don't want to use it. Please help
us understand this Regards, Larry <Hi Larry. The issue with
salt is essentially that freshwater fish have evolved in
environments where salt isn't present in the water. So from
that perspective at least, you don't need it in a freshwater
tank. Having said this, salt has its purposes. It's useful
when transporting fish because it reduces the toxicity of nitrite
and nitrate, and that's why fish shippers and retailers often
use it. Salt can be used to kill whitespot. By elevating the
mineral content of the water salt may reduces the osmotic
pressure on the fish in a useful way when they're sick or
stressed. On the other hand, a stable aquarium shouldn't have
a nitrite or nitrate problem. If your fish aren't sick, then
they don't need salt as a treatment. In some cases, even low
salt concentrations seem to be factors behind ill health in the
long term: Malawi Bloat, a serious problem with cichlids, seems
to be connected (in part) to salt. Salt was very widely used
decades ago largely because the fish kept were hardy but the
water quality often very poor (filters were less efficient, and
water changes of 25% per month were considered adequate). So, the
salt detoxified the nitrite and nitrate (which was good) and the
stress on the fish's osmoregulation system caused by using
salt (which was bad) was in effect the lesser of two evils.
Nowadays we keep a wider selection of fish, many of which, like
Mbuna and tetras, are intolerant of salt. Better water quality
largely renders the benefits of adding salt irrelevant. At best,
it's a waste of money; at worst, it's a stress factor on
delicate fish. My position is basically this: unless you're
using salt for a specific purpose (and you understand that
purpose and why salt helps) then don't use salt. It's a
lot like activated carbon -- a hangover from the old days of the
hobby rendered obsolete but still widely sold. If I could,
I'd make salt and carbon prescription-only drugs to keep them
away from less experienced hobbyists! Hope this helps,
Neale>
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Tiger barb [and African butterfly fish] deaths
:( 12/31/07 Hey there, I recently stumbled across
your website in a desperate bid for reasons for tropical fish
demise, and finding it both informative and relatively easy to
follow, I thought I could risk a question or two. <Go
ahead...> Our family are fairly new to fish ownership; my
younger brother has had tropical fish since September. He had
three green tiger barbs, one tiger barb, and then about a week
later he got two African butterfly fish and two Dalmatian
mollies. <A terrible combination of fish on so many levels.
Tiger barbs are schooling fish that MUST be kept in groups of six
upwards. They are also notorious fin-nippers, and will nip at
Butterflyfish. Butterflyfish are demanding animals not for
beginners because they are quite tricky to feed. They need mature
aquaria with excellent water quality and ideally soft/acid
conditions. Mollies, on the other hand, need hard and alkaline
water, preferably with salt added. Butterflies and barbs do not
like salt, so they can't be kept together. Mollies are really
fish for brackish water aquaria unless you are an expert
fishkeeper able to create alkaline, basic water with zero nitrate
on a constant basis. Please buy and read an aquarium book before
shopping.> For the first month or two the fish were absolutely
fine. Then one of the African butterfly fish showed strange
behaviour, swimming upside down, floating to the surface of the
water and appearing to lack control of its movement. It died
shortly afterwards [within a day or two.] <Most likely water
quality/chemistry issues. Test nitrite and pH. In a new tank, you
should be doing this every couple of days anyway.>
Approximately a couple of weeks went by. A lot more recently our
biggest green barb showed similar behaviour - swimming sideways
and upside down - and then also died within a few days of this
new behaviour. <Ditto.> Having noticed this similarity in
their behaviour patterns before their deaths, and upset to have
lost another fish, we began to investigate as to why they were
dying. This is when I came across your site. <Hmm...> I am
sad to say today [30 Dec] two more barbs have passed away - the
tiger barb and another green barb. The last green barb is
currently still alive but judging by the rate of passing
we're not sure how long this will be the case. <OK, this
is almost certainly water quality problems. Have you cycled the
tank before adding fish? How big is the tank? What sort of filter
are you using? What books did you read before starting the
hobby?> We wondered at first whether it was an aeration
problem - we had a filter already of course which functions fine,
but just to be safe we bought an aerator separately which is now
also functioning in the tank. <Aeration is a trivial issue in
most tanks, and a properly run aquarium doesn't need any
aeration. But filtration is something else: what is the nitrite
level in this tank?> There are fresh, live plants and the
temperature is about 25'C [which we understand to be a
suitable temperature.] The ph is 7 and we wondered whether this
would make a difference. <pH 7 is too low for Mollies; Mollies
must have not less than pH 7.5, which is of course incompatible
with Tiger Barbs and Butterflyfish, which prefer 6.5-7.5.> We
have been informed by our local aquarium [where we bought all
these tropical fish from] that the situation could be to do with
the nitrate level etc. and they are kindly testing a sample of
water tomorrow. <No no no... you need your own NITRITE (with
an "I") test kit at home. No-one starting the hobby
should be without this ESSENTIAL piece of kit. Think it's a
waste of money? Too bad... your fish died anyway, likely because
of nitrite poisoning. Test kits are NOT optional.> The
Dalmatian mollies seem as perky and inquisitive as ever. <Only
a matter of time...> I just wondered if there is any
additional information or advice you could provide about the
reasons for my brother's barbs and butterfly fish deaths and
if they are related. <Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm And
other related articles.> If you could make any suggestions
they would be greatly appreciated, Rhiannon <Read more and try
to understand what is happening in your tanks before adding any
more fish. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Tiger barb [and African butterfly fish]
deaths :( 12/31/07 Hello Neale, Thank you for the quick
reply. <You're welcome.> I have taken into account
everything you've said very seriously. <Cool.> Although
I would like to say that I really don't appreciate the
implication that we don't care about the fish because that is
far from the case. <My mistake, and no offence meant.> Our
family didn't just go out and buy the fish. Before purchasing
the fish we owned A buyer's guide to tropical fish which
states that mollies should have ph7-7.4, and that barbs are
unfussy within normal parameters, and as for the necessity of the
nitrite testing kit at home - our aquarium failed to inform us of
this necessity as well as telling us that barbs, mollies and
butterfly fish were compatible. <Often the problem. These fish
basically AREN'T compatible for the reasons outlined. While
Barbs can certainly thrive in hard, alkaline water (lots of
people keep them in southern England for example) most barbs do
not tolerate salt well, and sooner or later Mollies end up
needing to be kept in salty water. Sure, some people keep them
without salt, but the simple fact is half the time Mollies are
sickly under such conditions, so why not make life easier for
them and for you and keep them in brackish water from the get-go.
Aquarium shops *can* be good sources of information, but it
depends a lot on who you talk to, and what the store specialises
in. There are some aquarium store owners I happily defer to when
discussing healthcare of certain types of livestock. But then
there are other stores where staff are far less
experienced/trained.> So as far as we had known everything was
fine and we had all the equipment we needed, and now maybe our
confusion is a little bit more understandable. <I hope so
to.> Well before your reply things got worse and we were left
with one green barb and two Dalmatian mollies. <OK.> We had
the water sample done and the aquarium said that the levels were
fine and that the deaths could have been caused by shock at the
disturbance of their tank when we added the aerator and could
have churned up too much dirt when cleaning their tank.
<Hmm... "levels were fine" covers a lot of ground.
So rather than telling me subjectively what the water
chemistry/quality is, how about some numbers? Or let me put
things this way: Both fish need zero ammonia and nitrite. Mollies
also need nitrate levels less than 20 mg/l when kept in
freshwater (in brackish/marine conditions they are less
sensitive). Barbs want a pH between 6.5 and 7.5, while Mollies
want something between 7.5 and 8.0. Hardness is also critical.
Mollies absolutely MUST NOT be kept in water with a general
hardness less than 20 degrees dH; Barbs prefer softer water,
around 5-15 degrees dH. In terms of salinity, I STRONGLY
recommend Mollies be kept at a salinity of at least 3-5 grammes
per litre; Tiger Barbs at least cannot tolerate this level of
salt for long (there are some brackish water barbs to be sure,
but they're mostly the larger species). As should be obvious,
there's no overlap in what Mollies and Barbs want, hence my
advice -- based on experience -- that these fish shouldn't be
mixed. By all means try to go against Nature, but you'll
lose...> Also, to answer your question our tank is 60 litres.
[That is the measurement we are aware of.] And unfortunately
three more mollies had been purchased before I read your email.
<OK, 60 litres is quite a small tank, and while adequate for
small community fish like Neons, it isn't really viable
long-term for any of the fish you've got. Depending on the
precise strain of Dalmatian Molly, adult females can get to
something around 8-10 cm in length, males a little less. Males
can be aggressively possessive of access to females, and a tank
this size is very definitely one male only! Black Mollies are
marginally smaller, around 7 cm or so when mature. While they
could be kept in a 60 litre tank, I'd recommend something a
bit bigger.> So, evidently it seems an increasing mess. We
have one green barb and three black mollies, and two Dalmatian
mollies. <Oh.> We were told that the conditions and
everything is fine. So it's hard to know where to go from
here. <Horses, stables, and bolting come to mind here. In any
case, I can only reiterate something that you probably understand
now anyway: fish need to be researched before purchase.
Here's the thing to do: First start off by figuring out your
precise water chemistry in terms of pH, hardness (the dH scale),
and if you can, carbonate hardness (the KH scale). Decide whether
you want to add salt to the tank or not. Then try and return the
fish you currently have, and exchange them for smaller fish
suited to the tank you have. Endler Guppies, Neons, cherry barbs,
Sparkling Gouramis, Bumblebee gobies, Cherry Shrimp, dwarf
species of Corydoras, Kuhli loaches, and so on would all be
inexpensive, easy to keep animals ideally suited to 60 litre
tanks. Keep suitable numbers where required, i.e., trios (or
more) of the loaches and catfish, at least six Neons, etc.
Basically you want fish no more than 3-4 cm/1-1.5" in
length, except in the case of wormy things like Kuhli that
happily make do in small tanks since they wiggle about rather
than swim.> Thank you. <Cheers, Neale.>
Re: African Knife Problem and other questions
12/31/07 Hello again, <Hello for the first time...> I
hope you don't mind me asking you another question. I have a
65 gallon tank 48" by 13" and 24" tall (kinda odd
shape). I am currently just running an AquaClear 70 filter. I am
worried about the oxygen levels in the tank. <Oh? Well, the
two things to concentrate on are circulation (moving the water
from the bottom to the top) and supplementary aeration (basically
"splashing", anything that increases the surface area
at the top of the tank). Of course, if you aren't
overstocked, you won't have problems. The traditional
approach is to allow 10 square inches per 1 inch of small fish
like guppies and Dwarf Gouramis. Allow two, three, four times
more "square inchage" for bigger fish. So your tank,
with 624 square inches could support 62 and a bit inches of small
fish, and rather fewer bigger fish.> I plan on having a
African Knife, three Gouramis, 5 Congo tetras, couple Cory cats,
snails, and I'm going to try a full size Singapore Shrimp
(the AK seems pretty satisfied with his krill and blackworms at
the store, I think it will be fine). <Hmm... famous last
words. But do watch out with African Knives; though quite placid
when young, at least some specimens become rather mean as they
mature.> No live plants, only lots of fakes. I decided against
the peace lily idea. <Sounds wise. A dying plant will only
consume oxygen...> Do you think I need to supplement the
oxygen with a bubbler or something? <Maybe; but do remember
its circulation -- not bubbles -- that matter. So what you want
is something that pulls water from the bottom to the top of the
tank. A decent airstone will do this if weighted down to the
bottom of the tank, but so too will a filter or powerhead. Try
sprinkling some flake food at the bottom of the tank; if it sits
about or moves slowly, then you may need more circulation.> I
appreciate your time and advice. Julie <Happy to help.> PS
Happy New Year! <Likewise, happy new year! Neale.>
Re: Tiger barb [and African butterfly fish]
deaths :( 12/31/07 Hiya [Is yours an American site by the
way? Just curious] <The founder and queen bee of Wet Web
Media, Bob Fenner, certainly is a citizen of the Good Ole' US
of A, but yours truly is a Brit.> Thank you very much for all
the advice. <No problems.> It's very helpful and
hopefully now we can provide a better future for our fish.
<Glad to help.> Tetras were going to be the original choice
- shame [understatement really] that we didn't stick with
that. <Is always the way. Read first, plan second, buy
third.> We'll see what we can do <Cool. Enjoy your
fish, Neale.>
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Tiger Barb, hlth./env., Algicide use
2-4-08 I have had a 29 gallon tank for four months
now (before that I had a 10 gallon tank for one year), and when I first
got it I moved my one remaining tiger barb to my tank. <Hello,
Merritt here. That must be one lonely tiger barb, these fish are
schooling and need to be in groups of six or more for them to be
happy.> I had purchased him August 29, he seem very happy in the
tank swimming all around and eating plenty. Well my parents did not
like having just one little fish in there so I bought six other fish
from Wal-mart and kept them in their own tank for three weeks. <What
species of fish did you buy? And did you monitor the water chemistry?
(pH, ammonia, nitrate, nitrites?)> One of them was really small but
my parents did not want me to have two tanks so he went in with the
others. <So your fish are in the 10 gallon or 29 gallon?>
Everything went fine, until the algae started, so I bought two of the
smallest algae eaters that I could find (I do not like algae eaters
they look ugly). <I personally don't like them either> They
where so small they could not keep up with the growth so I put in
"Jungle-No more algae" then within two days they where each
dead, can I not put in algae tablets with algae eaters? <You might
have suffered a change in water chemistry when adding the other fish
which could have caused your fish demise. Many algae destroying
products are known to be harmful to specific species of fish and this
could have been the reason your fish died. I usually don't
recommend algicides of any sort. Also, your problem with algae is due
to a high amount of nutrients in the water, are you feeding your fish
too much? Or not enough water changes? Here are some links to algae
problems and freshwater care,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwalgcontrol.htm and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2ochgs.htm . Take a look at these
areas of WWM and others, as the answers to your questions are all on our
website. Hope this helps! Merritt>
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