Finding Nemo:  We're the bad guys!
Gee I always think of aquarists as people who are particularly concerned with animal welfare and the environment.  This movie is a ton of fun - even if the dentist with an aquarium is the "bad guy".
<it is a bit unfortunate... more than the portrayal, the real concern is the onslaught of parents and children that will bear down upon the pet stores looking for blue tangs and Percula clowns to put into 10 gallon aquariums. Yikes! Worse still, the few unscrupulous merchants that will sell them. The best we can do is keep educating our friends and new aquarists... local club meetings, chatting in pet stores, online, etc. Best regards, Anthony>

Re: Your opinion please Bob! (Inputs, reasons for marine losses)
Hi Bob,
Just re-reading some of the posts again after a few month hiatus.  I have to
say....love the website!
<Ah, good>
OK, on to my question.  What reason is it that many marine organisms (mostly
thinking of just fish) do not live well in captivity?  I realize this is a
question that has many variables (and more answers than you have time for,
but just a quick general answer will do), but I am wondering why certain
fishes are considered "not suitable"  for aquarists to keep.  Is it mostly
due physiological reasons or is there just so much that we still don't know
that prevents many species from being kept in captivity?
<Good question. Hard to give/have much confidence limit as to how much the lack of historical success in captive husbandry is due to the two above categories. The number one influence is without a doubt collective trauma from the collection, handling, holding and shipping through the "chain of custody"... having caught many of the same species coming from place "A" where they just don't "make it" and had them from place "B" do quite well, having been, lived in "A" and seen what the animals go through... "It" (the nefarious affect) is mainly human-caused. Now, beyond what the organisms go through being collected, certainly there are physiological and psychological (hard... at least for me... to say which) sources of stress that are variable amongst marines. Put another way, no matter what degree of care is rendered these animals they just take a beating all the way around and rarely live in captivity as a consequence... Third in "sources of mortality" is likely your statement re our not knowing enough re the given species husbandry, particularly in the realm of foods and feeding. What do Rhinomuraena consume in the wild? At night? How often?>
Thanks for your time
Craig
<And you. Bob Fenner>

Re: Orange spot parrot fish
Ok, so they sponsor you, whatever, all I can say about it is that:  It is pretty bad when you sell fish and know that they are going to suffer and die anyway, and not for a cheap price either!!   
<Agreed entirely... the last 35 years of my life I've written and given "talks" (to business, hobby, scientific groups) on this basic topic/theme: Please consider the historical, practical longevity of what species, sizes, source locations you buy your livestock... YES, there is a huge difference in what is likely to live and not in captivity. I wish everyone involved in our hobby, industry felt as you do. How to better make this point? Books, articles, shows on television? Who is going to pay for such exposure, influence? Do the governments involved have to regulate the trade? Who will decide what is "right", "wrong" to do, use? To me, each individual is responsible, must "make up their own mind". Am glad to see you voicing your opinions. Bob Fenner>
M.W.

Re: Orange spot parrot fish (inappropriate livestock period)
I know their are a lot of bad, rotten things in this world that we see every day and I hate to see things suffer, Sorry I lashed out at you.
<No offense taken>
When you are just a new-be in the saltwater hobby, you look at the different sites that sale the saltwater fish and if you don't read up on the fish that you have an interest in (which apparently a lot of people don't) You think, if they sell it must be a hardy  fish that will thrive in your aquarium,    So I guess it is also  the consumers responsibility to find out more about the fish they want to purchase!
<Yes! As you delve further into the hobby you will find many "positive, inspiring" ideas, people whose values you agree with. My thoughts are with you. Bob Fenner>
Thank you again
M.W.

A Conscientious Fish Source?
Dear Sirs:
<Hi there! Scott F. this afternoon!>
I hope you can help me with my search for healthy marine fish.  I am in the process ( 2.5 years and counting ) of establishing a 180 gallon reef tank. I have purchased and read numerous books by Fenner, Tullock, Delbeek, Sprung, Calfo, Borneman, Vernon, Goeman's, Shimek, Vernon, Baensch, Wilkerson, Michael, Fautin/Allen, Fossa/Nilsen and others. Also, I subscribe to FAMA, TFH, many online magazines/articles, and try to search the net for any other information I can find. If my wife knew how much I have spent on all this reading material I would be forever banished to the proverbial dog house.  However, I am willing to risk my
spouse's wrath, in order to find healthy aquarium specimens, and care for them under the best possible conditions.
<Even a spouse's wrath is tolerable if you have such lofty goals, IMO! Well- ok- it's reasonably tolerable...>
In my never ending search I have found many sources of captive bred and captive/tank raised corals/invertebrates.  Unfortunately, I have had less success in finding  retailers of  captive/tank raised, or captive bred fish. I realize the list of captive raised fish is relatively small, and the list of captive bred fish for sale is even smaller. But, I hope you can direct me to, or recommend, some online sources of captive raised and bred fish.
<We share similar concerns and goals. I am a big supporter of these types of suppliers. I could, with a high degree of confidence, recommend that you check out Inland Aquatic, which offers captive-bred, captive-reared, and certified drug free fishes. Also high on my list would be Marine Specialties International, whose owner, Mary Middlebrook, is deducted to ecological-minded practices. Another trusted source would be Marine Center, which sells both common and rare fishes that are procured conscientious collectors. There are still other sources for humanely-handled fishes out there- just keep searching. High on my list for animals other than fishes would be Indo Pacific Sea Farms, whose owner, Gerald Heslinga, is a pioneer in mariculture, and runs a great business. There are many other individuals out there who can provide you with the properly handled fishes that you desire>
Also, any recommendations for a retail source for humanely, net caught fish, would be greatly appreciated.  Without going into details the LFS is not an option (trust me on this).
<Believe me, I can relate!>
And, I do not know of any local clubs in my area, Colorado.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us. I hope to confer with you in the future as I set up my aquarium.
Sincerely, Peter I.
<Good luck in your search. I commend you heartily on your standards, and wish you luck in the future! Regards, Scott F.>

Subject: Ughhh! LA Times article <Great... will post all tomorrow Antoine. Bob F, pooped>
Folks... see the complete thread and responses here.
LA times article and then one of Walt Smith's
responses follows.
The complete thread is here with input from ERI as
well. Shameful reporting tactics at best. Walt wonders
if its another MAC attack :)
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=
b0b3a6c9274872287072c5d26f9962b9&threadid=117085
LA Times
article: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fish28sep28.story
COLUMN ONE
Tropical Catch of the Day
The search for exotic fish for aquariums can be
destructive. An L.A. firm is part of efforts to clean
up the industry.
By JERRY HIRSCH
Times Staff Writer
September 28 2002
VITOGO REEF, Fiji -- Bobbing in a lonely coral reef,
Manoa Kurulo spies his tiny prey, takes a snorkel
breath and dives into the water. The nimble
blue-and-orange quarry darts away through the stony
underwater garden.
Kurulo is a lumbering giant in comparison. Slicing
through the water, he gradually herds his prize--a
Fiji blue dot puffer the size of a man's thumb--into a
fine mesh net strung between two stands of coral. The
little fish is worth its weight in silver. He scoops
it into a bucket already sparkling with an
orange-and-brown goatfish and three shimmering
silver-green damsels.
The puffer has survived enormous odds to reach
adulthood in a sea of hungry predators, disease and
storms. Now, it is on the verge of embarking on a new
and unnatural migration across the globe in the cargo
hold of a 747.
Kurulo's bucket is the first stop in a 5,500-mile
journey that will carry the puffer from the pristine
waters of Fiji to a warehouse on a stretch of 104th
Street near Los Angeles International Airport known as
"Fish Street," regarded as the hub of the world's
aquarium fish trade.
Kurulo will get about 38 cents for his fish. By the
time his little puffer reaches a tropical-fish store
on Pico Boulevard, it will sell for $13.
Driven by advances in aquarium technology and the
economic boom years of the 1990s, exotic fish and the
coral where they live are among the hottest
wild-caught pets in America and Europe. They make up a
$235-million annual trade that has become both a
blessing and a curse across the Pacific.
In a good week, Kurulo earns upward of $100 harvesting
fish and live coral, more than twice the World Bank's
per capita income estimate for Fiji. He sends much of
his earnings back to the remote island village of
Wayalevu, where his wife and daughter live in a
village of traditional thatched Fijian bures and
concrete-block homes.
Thousands of miles away in Los Angeles, Walt Smith,
Kurulo's boss and president of marine animal
wholesaler Walt Smith International, drives his black
BMW X5 to his new 15,000-square-foot Fish Street
warehouse--both the fruits of Fiji's reef fish and
coral.
Yet along with the bounty have come questions over
whether the industry is contributing to the demise of
the world's coral reefs. Across the Pacific, thousands
of divers have culled the waters of moray eels, yellow
tangs, coral banded shrimp and other exotic marine
creatures in their desperation to eke out a meager
living. None of the popular tropical fish are in
danger of extinction, but in some areas, fish such as
yellow tangs and Banggai cardinals have reached
dangerously low levels, marine biologists say.
The Indo-Pacific is notorious for its dangerous and
destructive methods for capturing fish. Collectors
often dive into the water with plastic air tubes
wrapped around their waists, tethering them to old
paint compressors. Periodically, they take breaths
from the tubes, typically inhaling a mixture of air
and exhaust fumes.
Divers in Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam often
squirt cyanide into the reefs to stun the fish, making
their capture easier. Many of the fish die of
poisoning, slowly wasting away on the trip to the
United States or succumbing during their first weeks
in a hobbyist's tank. Other divers destroy the reef
habitat by using hammers and chisels to hack apart
generations-old coral heads, breaking them into pieces
small enough to fit into home aquariums.
By some industry estimates, as many as one-third of
the 30 million aquarium fish harvested each year
perish in the long chain that leads from the reef to
the hobbyist's tank. They die by stewing in hot
plastic bags and buckets of stale water as they wait
for shipment. Piles of tiny fish are scooped out each
day from stuffed Styrofoam shipping boxes that are
short on water to trim shipping expenses.
"In some shipments if they get only 50% mortality they
are happy," said Craig Shuman, a scientist for Reef
Check, a monitoring group based at UCLA's Institute of
the Environment.
Striving for 'Green'
Given the odds, Kurulo's puffer is one of the lucky
ones. He was caught by Smith's company, one of a group
of leading collectors in Fiji attempting to transform
the industry into a "green" and sustainable business
by varying their fishing sites and improving storage
and shipping practices to slash the mortality rate.
His Fiji station also is experimenting with collecting
fish at the early-juvenile stage and raising them in
captivity.
Kurulo, like other collectors in Fiji, has learned
that a gentle capture is a crucial factor in the
fish's chances for survival.
When frightened, his little puffer will inflate its
body to nearly twice its normal size to make itself
look more formidable to predators. But Kurulo's
underwater moves are so deft that the puffer and three
others caught within minutes show little signs of
alarm as they are transferred from the reef to the
boat.
Tim McLeod, manager of Smith's Fiji operations, pilots
his 26-foot boat Brittany and its cargo of live fish
and coral back to the warehouse after a day of
harvesting with Kurulo. On a typical day, Kurulo will
capture as many as 80 of the tiny puffers.
The little puffer is tucked away with the other fish,
darting back and forth in a plastic tub--an
unimaginably small world compared to the endless reef
they knew just minutes earlier.
Halfway through the journey, McLeod throttles back the
engine. Kurulo knows the drill. He dips a bucket into
the ocean and empties it into the tub, providing the
animals with clean water and oxygen. It's all part of
the company's efforts to keep its mortality rate to
less than 2% of what it captures.
The engines rev again and the Brittany points to
shore. Perfect white-sand beaches and tangled mangrove
forests streak by. The sea is so glassy that Kurulo
can look over the side and see fish, sea stars and
vast growths of coral as the boat speeds over the
shallow water.
The little puffer would have passed its entire life
hunting small crustaceans and invertebrates that live
within the large honeycombed boulders of Porites coral
and the brown-and-blue tinted thickets of Acropora.
Kurulo knows these waters as intimately as any stretch
of land--where to find the stands of Acropora, the
spreading disks of table coral, sprouting like giant
toadstools from the ocean floor, and the swirling
bursts of angelfish, tangs, butterflies and damsels
prized by hobbyists.
Diving has allowed Kurulo, 38, a standard of living
far above what he earned in his previous job working
on a road crew for the Fijian government. He owns two
of the 77 homes in his island village--a traditional
bure and a concrete-block home. There's no power on
the island, but Kurulo is saving to buy a solar
generator that would allow him to operate a
television, a video player and a radio.
The ability of the marine aquarium industry to put
cash in the hands of villagers represents one of the
greatest potential benefits of a business that badly
needs reform, said Bruce W. Bunting, a veterinarian
who heads the World Wildlife Fund's Center for
Conservation Finance.
On average, marine aquarium fish sell for more than 80
times the value of fish caught and killed for food
export, Bunting said. Putting a greater percentage of
that money into the hands of collectors--in the
Philippines and Indonesia, divers earn maybe $50 a
month--will encourage the villages of Micronesia and
the Indo-Pacific to create protected areas and fishing
areas and to limit the pollution that is killing reefs
worldwide, he said.
"The leaders of this industry want to see it cleaned
up, and they know that this is the time to do it,"
said Bunting, who also serves as chairman of the
Marine Aquarium Council, a trade group implementing a
set of reforms and a certification process for
catching and transporting the animals.
The council's standards cover the entire supply
chain--from reef to retailer--setting targets to
reduce mortality and demanding that collectors and
exporters certify that their animals were caught
humanely, without poisons or other destructive
techniques. The first council-certified fish are
expected to appear in U.S. retail shops in the next
six months.
As Kurulo ties up the Brittany at the warehouse dock,
McLeod reaches for the container holding the puffer
and the rest of the day's catch. McLeod slowly adds
saltwater from the warehouse's filtering system to the
container to acclimate the puffer to the water that
will flow through its holding tank.
Fish Out of Water
In its own environment of the reef, the puffer is a
hardy species, able to survive through sheer weight of
numbers and the countless hiding places within the
coral stands and rocky storm rubble. But once removed
from the reef, it becomes a fragile slip of color,
dependent on humans to re-create a constant and
complex environment.
The puffer's home waters never seem to change much.
That stability creates a challenge for the hobbyists
who attempt to replicate a slice of the reef in their
living rooms. If the puffer is to thrive in captivity,
its water temperature should rarely vary by a degree
or two from 78.
The salinity in the aquarium must remain steady,
protected from the swings of water evaporation from
such a small habitat. The same holds true for
alkalinity, which on the reef never strays far from a
pH of 8.2.
Even just an hour out of its native habitat, Kurulo's
38-cent puffer is feeling the stress of adapting to
its new world of a small Plexiglas cage. Although the
elaborate saltwater storage and filtering system at
the warehouse provides the puffer with water nearly
identical to that of its home, the fish cowers in a
corner of its small holding tank, unable to find the
expected refuge of coral branches.
McLeod's workers won't feed the fish for three days.
They know from experience that it is better to have a
hungry fish than one that will foul its shipping water
with the previous night's dinner.
The puffer will gradually acclimate in the coming
days, but by then it will be time to pack the fish in
a plastic bag with fresh saltwater and then into an
insulated box with dozens of other fish for the
11-hour overnight flight to Los Angeles.
New Home and a Name
For this puffer, and the other fish on this shipment,
it is a race against time.
McLeod's workers give the fish enough water and oxygen
to last through the roughly 24-hour journey of loading
docks, cargo holds and customs inspections until their
arrival and acclimation into the tanks at the
stateside warehouses on Fish Street. About 98% of the
fish from Nadi Airport in Fiji survive the flights.
The puffer arrives in seemingly good health. He is
part of a shipment that includes coral and the other
puffers collected by Kurulo. In a few days Eric
Hartung, the owner of L.A. Aquarium, selects the
puffers out of the thousands of fish offered by the
Fish Street warehouses each day.
Alex Bouchet, a sixth-grader from Mar Vista with an
interest in ocean life, walks into L.A. Aquarium that
weekend and scans the rows of bubbling tanks. The
11-year-old is quickly drawn to the blue-and-orange
puffer and hands over $13 for the fish.
Once again the little puffer gets packed into a
plastic bag for the journey to yet another home, half
a world away from his native reef. He goes into a
15-gallon aquarium on a table in Alex's bedroom.
The puffer, now named Roy, swims in the tank, is fed
after Alex gets home from trombone lessons and
football practices each day, and sleeps pressed up
against a large rock in the aquarium.
But in less than eight weeks from the day Kurulo
netted the puffer out of the reef, Alex looks into his
tank and discovers that Roy is dead. It might have
been the water chemistry, a disease picked up in
transit or merely the stress of the long journey and
the series of increasingly smaller homes.
Meanwhile, a new shipment of puffers has arrived at
Fish Street.
********Walt's response on the message board:
LA Times article
Hello all,
I must say that I am a bit shocked by some of the
"facts" presented in this piece. When Jerry first
contacted me I was very skeptical of reporters and I
told him so. He promised me that he would allow me to
review the piece before anything went into print so I
agreed to participate and offered all the help he
wanted to get the story (and the facts) correct. I
never was given any copy to read thus I have to view
this as the usual reporters lie to get the story any
way they can.
I had no idea that this was going to be a story with
me as the center character, I was told that is was
going to be a positive industry story based on MAC and
it's efforts to help improve the industry standards.
Obviously, he tried to make me look good but that only
served as a sweetener (except that bull about my diver
in a grass hut and me in a big new BMW) as the
underlying theme of the article was about this poor
little puffer fish taken from his home and frightened
to death. How about the responsibility of the store
not advising a 13 year old boy that this fish would
not do well in a 15 gallon tank with inexperience.
One of the most irresponsible statements came from the
guy at Reef Check stating 50% loss is a lucky day. I
know Gregor, the director and founder of Reef Check
and I am sure he would be horrified by one of his men
making statements like this with no knowledge of the
industry. I am certain he just made it up as he was
interviewed , or worse, the reporter got it wrong.
It makes the industry look bad and I have gotten a lot
of calls this morning that confirms this. It makes me
wonder if this is not a MAC ploy to insure their
existence (and funding) to prove to the world how much
we need them to save us from ultimate peril.
I will say that I did get a very nice letter from the
author thanking me for all of my help .... but. I
doubt that I will ever trust reporters again.
This is the perfect prelude to the upcoming Disney
movie about a poor little clown fish that is collected
on the Barrier Reef and sent around the world to a big
scary Dentist who has a big mean aquarium (prison) in
his office. His best friend, the Blue Tang, takes a
dangerous journey around the world to save him from
the perils of the big mean aquarium world. This movie
is going to do a lot of good (HA!) for those that have
worked so hard to bring up industry standards. Perhaps
the movie and article are connected ... who knows!
This was the last thing I needed to see on my desk
when I returned from a very nice weekend at the Dallas
MACNA.
Cheers, Walt

Aquariums to save species
Bob,
  I remembered a paper on endangered reef fish, and made a few small
modifications:
Coralisters,
  I have to disagree with the basic premise of the original question about
using an aquarium to save reef species.
  First, coral reefs are in grave danger around the world.  Coral species,
however, are not.  There are a few very rare species of coral that are in
fact in danger, but nobody seems much concerned- for example, on the
Pacific coast of Panama there are 2 species of coral currently known from 4
colonies each.  If that's not endangered, I'd like to know what is.  These
numbers are published, and yet as far as I know, no one is in the slightest
bit interested in listing them as Endangered Species.  CITIES has a list
for Endangered Species (Appendix I), but they are not on it.  Instead, all
corals, including those whose populations may be in the billions of tons
(estimates, anyone?), are all on the Appendix II list of CITIES, so trade
is permitted, but permits required.  The reason for this?  To try to help
countries control the trade in corals for curios to gather dust on shelves
in homes, or to stock aquariums, to avoid the wholesale destruction of
reefs (i.e, to save reefs, not species).  I remember hearing that dynamite
and dump trucks were used to collect corals in Florida years ago for the
shell shops; there wouldn't be much left there if it was allowed to continue.
  As for other species on reefs, relatively few fish, mollusks, or other
macrofauna are probably at risk of species extinction.  A study of reef
fish found only 5 species that were critically endangered (2 of these
probably already extinct), one that was endangered and 172 that were
vulnerable.  Some macrofauna may already be commercially extinct, like the
biggest giant clam, Tridacna gigas, but the species is not close to
extinction.  Without action maybe it will be, but can we use it like the
Spotted Owl in the US Pacific Northwest to protect entire ecosystems?  It
doesn't require healthy reefs to live, and is easily bred in mariculture.
  I would guess that almost all of the world's coral reefs could be
"destroyed", that is 99% dead, without loosing hardly any species of
macrofauna.  A few individuals of each species are likely to survive on
most reefs.  (maybe we need some serious research to see how far I'm off
the mark) Might loose some microfauna- I understand there are some
amphipods with extremely restricted ranges.  Shall we try to save entire
coral reefs by adopting the slogan "Save the amphipods"?  Un-charismatic
microfauna may not help much.  Reefs themselves are far more charismatic.
  Secondly, a home aquarium set up by a beginner is not going to help save
endangered species; however, it could be used to help extinguish species.
Yes, corals can be grown in aquariums and fragments spread to other
aquariums and potentially returned to the wild.  Yes, more people are
learning how to do this.  Yes, that's great.  But the reality as far as I
know is that you have to know what you're doing, lots of people don't know
yet, and fish shops continue to sell large quantities of live coral and
fish because many or most home aquariums continue to be death traps- live
things go in, dead things come out.  This is particularly likely for a
beginner, but also includes many or most public aquariums with large
budgets- do you really think they breed every fish species they have on
display enough to replace the fish that die?  No way.  Sad, but true.  This
does not diminish all the great things that aquariums, public and private
do, for education, getting people to love the animals and be concerned for
their protection, etc.  But those good things don't change the fact that
most aquariums are net consumers of living things, not producers.
  So my advice is if you want to get an aquarium, get one because you
think its beautiful, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're helping
to save a reef or a species.  If you want to help a reef, get a freshwater
aquarium instead, and switch from that gas-guzzling monster you (may)
drive into a highly fuel efficient vehicle.  (the sequence is said to be:
burning fossil fuel produces greenhouse gas (CO2) produces global warming
produces coral bleaching produces coral death)  So far, I know of no
indication that people in developed countries or wealthy people in
developing countries are at all inclined to give up big vehicles; on the
contrary their popularity is increasing.   -Doug
Hawkins, J. P., C. M. Roberts & V. Clark.  2000.  The threatened status of
restricted-range coral reef fish species.  Animal Conservation 3: 81-88.
Douglas Fenner, Ph.D.
Coral Biodiversity/Taxonomist
Australian Institute of Marine Science
PMB No 3
Townsville MC
Queensland 4810
Australia
phone 07 4753 4334
e-mail: d.fenner@aims.gov.au
web: http://www.aims.gov.au
<Sue, with Doug's permission I am sending this bold statement along for your consideration in running in an upcoming FAMA editorial. Please do respond to the "other" Mr. Fenner (no relation that we know, surprisingly enough), and send him a copy of the issue if/when it is inserted.
Bob Fenner>

We are collectors in Costa Rica and would like to discuss some future pos...
We have been shipping Costa Rican Marines for 12
years to Canada and The US . We have just completed an
expansion and now have over 5000 gallons of salt water
capacity and feel confident we can service a few more
customers with the same top quality and consistency as
before . If you would like to discuss terms with us .
or wish to see a price and inventory list I would be
very happy to send one  out to you . We have new
services into the UK that make this option feasible
where it was not before . Hope to hear from you soon
Catalina Castro
<Thank you for your offer. I will gladly help you (for free) locate other markets. Who do you regularly ship to in the U.S.? Can you provide me with an idea of what your typical/annual stocklist looks like? Are there expensive restrictions like air freight that might influence an importer/transhippers buying from you?
Bob Fenner>

Re: We are collectors in Costa Rica and would like to discuss some future pos...
I am having problems getting emails out so you may get
2 similar emails . Any ways . Thank you for responding
so promptly , That sounds great . I am not clear are
you a transhipper or a wholesaler ?
<Actually, and thank goodness for your facility with English, more of an "expediter"... A content provider in the trade, interest... mainly a consultant and friend in/to the trade these years... A much more hands on person a decade back... But do get around and know many of the folks in the industry still (attend most the large domestic, international trade fairs,  go visit several countries a year visiting collecting facilities... And am always agreed to help people make the trade better>
We are awaiting freight rates from our broker and once I have those I
will forward them to you . In some cases our clients
have been able to negotiate a better price from there
end with the airline  especially when you are in their
hub , in your case British airways.<Really? Even to Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago...?>
If you have strong contacts with them perhaps that would help. One
concern I have is Packaging . We now ship in
Styrofoam boxes with a waxed Cardboard liner . I
understand that Europe and GB do not permit non
Biodegradable packaging . . Do you have some
suggestions in that respect ?<Ah, will check with my friends at Tropical Marine Centre. Do you trade with them currently? I am actually in the U.S.A., in California.>
We work here on quotas
imposed by the ministry of fisheries , For example
each diver is allowed 50 fish per species per month .
<Sounds like a good principle>
I have 7 divers so I would have the capacity to
produce and export 350 Holacanthus Passers for example
.( water permitting of course )  I have 3 more divers
I can put to work should the demand warrant it . . At
present we ship to Marine Enchantment ( TO ) Exotic
Marine and Marine Life Design  ( Miami ) Marine
Brokers of Atlanta , High Brite USA ( LA ) We will be
dropping HB for problems in collecting payments &. Sea
Dwelling Creatures .  ( LA) They know us as Villas Las
Cascadas but we have just made some changes in our
company and from now on will be known as C 2 C
International S.A. I will forward to you by Fax ( Need
your Fax # ) <858-578-7372>
a price and inventory list . This will be
an approximation of what you could expect +/- on a
biweekly basis  I look forward to your reply and as
soon as I have rates , schedules and your fax # I will
forward that and price / inventory list to you . I
hope this can work out . For us the time has come to
move into Europe . Looking forward to your feedback .
Catalina Castro
<And I will begin now to send out our correspondence via email to parties I know to be of help and possible business contacts for you.
Bob Fenner>