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What to do with Toxic Gas Trapped in
Soil? – 09/19/07
Hi,
I wonder if you can help you. (You all seem really busy at WWM.) I did
search for the answer, but I only found that gas DOES get trapped in the
substrate, not what to do about it.
I have a 55 gallon planted tank that has been running for a year now,
with 5 year old angelfish (the mated pair is going into the 25 gallon
tank soon), 3 nickel sized angel fish (they're doing fine together), 11
neon tetras, 2 swordtails (both male), and a Pleco (5-6"). I have the
black EcoComplete substrate, which has worked fine for me.
However, I recently went in to replant a couple of the plants, moving
them from the end that gets about an hour of sunlight each morning to
the side that doesn't. When I lifted up the plant, the substrate was
fine, but when I stuck it into the other end of the tank, air bubbles
came out. I've read that this is an extremely bad sign, meaning that the
plants at the other end of the tank haven't really grown their roots,
and that there's some kind of nitrogen compound trapped in the
substrate. First of all, is this an emergency-immediate problem?
Secondly, is there a way to fix it without taking out the fish from tank
or harming the fish? (Can I just poke some holes in the substrate with
my finger to let the gas out or is that a big no-no?) And what's the
long term solution?
Should I switch out the 80W for more light? (The plants are all alive,
just not thriving, apparently.)
Thank you all for your time and effort and any help that you can
provide,
Nea
<Greetings. The "gas in the substrate" problem is wildly exaggerated
within the hobby. Here's the basics: Anaerobic decay can result in the
accumulation of a gas called hydrogen sulphide (H2S). In theory, because
this gas is toxic to fish, any bubbles of H2S can harm or kill your
fish. However, in practise H2S oxidises very rapidly, and once it is in
contact with oxygenated water the H2S gets converted to plain old
sulphur (or as the Americans spell it, sulfur). This reaction is so fast
that it is for all practical purposes instant, so small amounts of H2S
will be rendered harmless long before the concentration in the water
reaches dangerous levels. Marine aquarists have learned to embrace
anaerobic decay, and routinely set up filters (e.g., deep sand beds and
mounds of living rock) that perform anaerobic decay. I also have yet to
see a pond that *didn't* have masses of anaerobic decay going on in the
thick, gooey mud at the bottom of the pond. But for whatever reason,
freshwater aquarists are still skeptical. So let's put things into
perspective. Anaerobic (or at least dysaerobic) conditions are normal in
muddy freshwater substrates, and most plants actually prefer them to the
clean, oxygenated plain gravel substrates we usually give them. Under
anaerobic conditions the mineral ions they want are "reduced" and more
easily absorbed than they would in their "oxidized" states. Plant roots
carry oxygen into the substrate via a tissue called aerenchyma, which
you can think of as being a bit like a snorkel. Some of the oxygen
carried down to the roots escapes and immediately around the roots the
conditions are partially, but not completely, oxygenated (i.e.,
dysaerobic rather than anaerobic). So wherever plants are growing, the
actual risk of dangerous levels of H2S developing becomes even smaller.
Occasionally poking the substrate with a stick to stir things up a
little won't do any harm, and I always add Malayan livebearing snails to
planted tanks because they do this automatically, behaving rather like
earthworms do on land. In my view, these snails are indispensable and as
you probably know they never, ever harm plants. Now, this brings us to
the question of why your plants aren't growing. This is almost certainly
nothing to do with the substrate. Since you're using a proper
plant-growing medium, Eco Complete, and I hope to a reasonable depth
(not less than 8 cm, but no more than 12 cm without a heating cable), so
that aspect should be solid. No, the problem is almost certainly
lighting. For good plant growth you need at least 2 Watts per gallon.
You can get by with a bit less in shallow (<30 cm deep) tanks using
shade-tolerant species (like Java moss and Anubias) but in all other
cases the more light the better. In practical terms, you're aiming for
at least 4 tubes that run the length of the tank. Ideally, these should
be plant-friendly tubes with a "colour temperature" of around 6000
Kelvin, though to some extent plants will adapt. Fitting reflectors
behind the tubes is a cheap way to maximise your returns by directing as
much light as possible into the tank. Bright-light plants, which tend to
be those species with light green or red leaves, may need even more
light than 2W/gal., in which case adding additional tubes or switching
to a higher output light source (like mercury vapour lamps) becomes
important. I hope this helps, Neale>
Planted aquarium soilags article - 11/02/06
Hi Bob,
<Earl>
I am in the process of setting up low tech (2wpg no CO2) planted tank, I plan to
pretty much follow the guide lines in your article, but I'm a little
confused as how to go about this.
<Let's try to clarify...>
In your article you say "I include up to 50% peat in my soil; most of the times
utilizing a "African violet" type house plant mix for the rest of the
remainder, and a little laterite". Where the confusion comes in is all the
African Violet mixes I have looked at say they have Peat in the mix but
don't tell me how much, so do I still mix peat and African Violet mix 50/50?
<Could... this mixture should be "water-logged" ahead of use... to help "keep it
down">
and is a red clay soil OK, as opposed to laterite, and how much is a little?
<Mmm... I'd skip on most red clays... or at least test/see if this material will
stay put... Could be a real mess>
And being a new setup do I layer the soils? A couple fistfuls of peat followed
by a little clay soil, and African violet mix @ 4oz's per sq/ft,
topped with sand/gravel, or do I mix it all together and top with sand/gravel?
<This last... with the mix of whatever make up thoroughly wetted... best, soaked
a few days ahead of placing>
Thanks
Earl
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Sprouting Old Plant Bulbs 9/8/06
Disregard the title if it sounds like an emergency - it's not. No fish
are suffering! Just my pride. What I have done is so idiotic! Hopefully I
will not be barred from ever writing you again.
< Hey, we live off this stuff!>
I was cleaning out a section of my utility room (mostly full of fish
equipment and hurricane prep -- after all, this is Florida here) and I
came across this package of plant bulbs I must have purchased a few
years ago and forgot about. They are Aquarium Plant Life brand, a
package of about 5 bulbs that you're supposed to be able to drop into
an aquarium and have root in a few days.
Ok, so I also stumbled across my old 10 gallon glass tank and a bag of
blue and black gravel mix, and a bag of perlite and vermiculite mix.
(In case you can't tell, I mix things.)
Somehow, I thought I would experiment with all three of these! So I
covered the bottom of the tank with perlite and vermiculite --which I
figured was probably not aquarium safe but thought it would be ok,
since I was only meaning half-heartedly to grow these plants and never
add fish-- then topped it off with nearly an inch of the blue and
black aquarium gravel. I mistakenly thought this layering would give
the plants some nice deep airy rooting substrate with an (albeit thin)
anchor of dense gravel!
Well, I poured the water in from my faucet attachment and boy oh boy
do I have a mess. I put a screened top over the tank and a shoplight
is casting ghostly formations into the brown water. I cannot imagine
this ever clarifying. After reading online about perlite and
vermiculite (apparently these materials are used for pool construction
and fireproofing? hmm...) I can see now that these probably will not
ever do well submerged.
I netted out most of the perlite, which floated to the top as though
made of Styrofoam. I believe it's the vermiculite that is causing the
brown clouding of the water. I dropped the bulbs in already along with
a couple of fertilizer tabs... once the water filled the tank it was
impossible to scoop them out, like bobbing for apples!
Should I dump this mess outside?
< Take the tank outside. Pour the water and floating things through a fish
net. Pluck out the bulbs and dump the rest into your flower bed. Rinse the
gravel in the 10 gallon with a garden hose until it overflows clear and the
gravel is clean. Empty the water and set the tank back up where you want it.
Place the bulbs back into the tank. If they spout at all then you can worry
about lighting and fertilizers then. If they don't sprout then just fish
them out with a net.>
I could do so easily, the tank is right near the front door. It probably
wouldn't hurt the plants outside. I was tempted to tonight, but I thought I
would ask your
opinion. I don't think this stuff will ever settle... if it does, isn't it
bound to cloud right up again? Also after mucking around in this
water, my hands feel dry as all get-out. Maybe it has to do with the
fact that these are pool construction and flame proofing materials!! ;)
I feel so dumb having this tank which now looks like a....liquid
intestinal evacuation!
So, would it ever be *feasible* to grow these plants of *questionable*
origin in this *experimental* substrate, just add hard tap water and
fertilizer tabs? I'm so sorry to ask, but I would love to know... if
not, I'd be happy to pitch the fowl soup...
Thank you for even reading this far! Nicole
< Plant the bulbs. It is the only way we will know if they are any
good.-Chuck>
Use of peat 2/7/06
Hey guys
I have a question about peat moss? I found while reading something awhile
ago, something on how peat moss helps purify or cleans water, so I am looking
to get all the facts I can find.
<An old-timey approach to softening, acidifying... making more hard/alkaline
water for aquatic life that appreciates such...>
I would also like to know the facts on all the different kinds of moss and
the effects they have on water, for example Spanish moss, Hiawatha green
moss, and whatever else there is for mosses.
<You are wise here... as they are different... and some makes are treated with
alkaline material... best to rinse, even boil, cool, drain water from before
using...>
Next question is where would I find what I need for a 29 gallon fish aquarium
loaded with fish that has been up and running for 5 months?
Rick
<What you need? Am not following you here. You might want to peruse WWM... re
peat moss, water quality... Bob Fenner>
Change the Substrate for Peat Sake 12/5/05
I'm inclined to agree. I was a bit concerned about what you asked about the "white 'stuff' on the bottom of the tank" being the "peat
fungused...(is that a word?)...up and decomposing." I double checked the substrate and the only white thing I can see is the white sand
on top of the gravel on top of the peat...but is there a large risk in the peat?
The peat was purchased at a garden center and I checked with the company that no chemicals/fertilizers are used in the peat--just
straight peat.
I've noticed quite a few air pockets (QUITE a few) in the peat and was somewhat worried that these might pose a problem down the road, as I don't know of any kind of "sand sifter" like the worms in my reef tank. Could these become unhealthy? Are they trapped O or something noxious or are they just converted Nitrogen?
I've noticed the same in my sand as well. The tank doesn't have an unpleasant odor or any other indicator of "unhealthy" gasses or water conditions that I can't test for with my test kits. I don't know if I will ever do the peat in the substrate, though it was wizard for my plants...and I think I'll get some in there soon, too.
What would grow well in a 28" deep tank w/ 250w 10000K MH lighting and (2) 40w 6500K
fluorescents...and a sand/gravel/peat substrate? I'm going to replace the 10000K with a 6500K, but that won't be for another 10 months or so. I want a bright side of the tank and a darker side so that nervous fish have a refuge and the bright for plants and for viewing pleasure. The discus has even started venturing into the brighter part of the tank which has been a real treat. I'm also planning on doing a cloud of cardinals (20+) and that should look nice. Anyway, Thanks again for all the help.
Branon.
< I would recommend laterite or fluorite as a substrate for an aquarium with both plants and fish and skip the peat moss.-Chuck>
Low pH
I appreciate comments on my present situation... I am in the
process of setting up a 54g planted community tank that will have a South
American flavor, although it will not be a strict biotope. I've
terraced 2 to 4" of gravel, and laced it thoroughly with Laterite. I
followed the advice of my LFS and mixed 2 liters of peat pellets in with the
gravel and laterite.
<Hmm, not something I'd do, I don't think; I prefer to have peat in my filter
where I can remove it if I so choose.>
The problem: My pH was too low, 5 to 5.5
<Zowie!>
and the water was yellow.
<To be expected, when you use peat and/or bogwood - running carbon in your
filter may help remove the yellow/brown stain.>
So I emptied the whole tank and tried to rid of much of the peat, and I got a
lot of it out, maybe a third of it. Now that a day has gone by the
yellowness is much less but the PH is still 5 - 5.5. PH from my tap
is alkaline, about 7.5. What should I do to get the PH to the 6.5 - 7
range?
<There are lots of buffering materials on the market; one that comes to mind
is made by Seachem I believe, and comes in a green-labeled clear bottle, the
product itself is pink. I don't for the life of me recall the name of
it - perhaps Acid Buffer or Discus Buffer. This might be something to
try, if your water hardness is very low, as I suspect it is.>
Is there any way other than to break it down and manually remove the peat,
pellet by pellet?
<This reminds me of childhood days, when I liked nothing better than to sort
nuts from bolts in my Dad's garage....>
Or perhaps easier, just get rid of the whole gravel bed and start afresh, this
time with very little or no peat?
<If you do this, go without peat in the gravel, for sure. You
don't want to put something in the substrate that you may have to remove - as
you surely understand now, it's a very undesirable task. Addition of
peat in the filter(s) is far and above a better way to go about it, in my
opinion.>
Or should I just go with it as is? To me it seems that PH is too low.
<It is (though there ARE some fish that would like it), and by the sound of
it, is unstable as well, yes? My vote - either remove the substrate
and redo, remove the peat from the substrate (have you got any children that
might be talked into such a task? lol), or perhaps try a buffer to raise the
hardness of your water to keep the pH a touch more stable, and livable.>
Thanks for your comment.
<Any time, Jeff. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>
Jeff Zegas
Discus, peat and carbon
Hi Guys,
<Hello Adam>
I am about to setup my first discus tank! I hear peat is a good thing to add in
the filter system.
<Can be, yes... as a "natural" source of pH, alkalinity adjustment,
addn. of tannins, flavines...>
But, as with most things, there is a down side - the yellow colour it turns the
water. If I use carbon as well will I get rid of the colour AND the other good
stuff as well. If so then the carbon will defeat the purpose.
<Mmm, only to some extent. Fine to use both>
Some people suggest that peat leaches ammonia and phosphates. Is this true?
<Not "good" peats (non-alkaline treated, well-decomposed,
"darker" types), that have been properly prepared (lightly boiled,
left to cool)>
Also, if I do use peat how long should I use it before replacing?
<A month or so is about right. Best to place in (Dacron polyester) bags that
you can easily place, remove... twixt mechanical filter media... as in
in-between "fiber" in a corner, outside power or canister filter>
Some suggest only a day or two and others about a month! I tend to think that
more regular changes would be best otherwise the peat will act as a bio filter
(I'm assuming that is a bad thing ... is it?).
<Really best to "just experiment" here. For your type of source
water, substrate in the system, other interactive effects, to see what
"goes on" over time>
I know that the fish don't mind the yellow colour of the water but I do and I
want to have my cake and eat it too. Are there any additives that you recommend
in place of peat.
<A few "black water tonics" (e.g. those by Tetra, Dupla, others)
that are "extracts" from peat>
Thanks for having such a great site.
Cheers,
Adam Langman
Australia
<Thank you for being part of it. Bob Fenner>
Planted Aquarium Substrates, Peat Use
Hi. Im restarting my 55G and 29G, and buying a 90G. The
90G will be heavily
planted, the other two moderately planted. Im hoping to use a peat,
sand,
and gravel mix to keep the cost down. What peat should I use, and
wont it make
a catastrophic mess when I vacuum? What proportions of each
would be best?
<A darker, heavier peat is best... if you can, boil it (so it will sink) and
let it cool... The peat really needs to be placed in such a way that it
can't/won't be disturbed (else it will indeed "go everywhere"). Either
use a screen (fiberglass as in window) with a mix of fine gravel and peat (about
ten-twenty percent by volume) with the screen over it and just gravel over this,
or resolve to never gravel vacuum the lower levels of a deep bed with only the
lower half mixed>
One more- my 29 and 55 are 4 years old- how long is the silicone good for?
<Decades>
My 55 has dead algae spots under the silicone- should I replace the seal?
<Mmm, I wouldn't. The actual "seal" is the area between the glass
faces... the bit in the corners is mainly to keep you from gouging into the
functional area with a sharp tool>
You've answered many questions for me recently, and I thank you. With
any
luck this will be the last of my questions.
Thanks,
James P.
Prov, RI
<Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner, whose parents were born in Providence,
myself not far away in Northkingston>
WWM article
Greetings Sir,
I just finished reading your article "On the Use of Soil In Aquarium
Gardening" from Web Media.com, it was a very enlightening subject that is
close to home
on an ongoing project of my own. I was wondering if I could reprint an
excerpt or two in a forum on aquascaping in response of a disagreement that is
been
too lengthy for my own taste.
Sincerely,
IS Zachary D Standridge
<If this is a non-commercial use you are welcome to its use. Please see here
re our content use policy: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMUsePolicyStmt.htm
Bob Fenner>
Aquarium Lighting Question, (and planted tank nutritive substrate)
Bob, I have read almost everything on your webpage, simply the best resource
I have ever found on aquarium gardening. As a person who got into the hobby
about 3 years ago I have been forced to learn most things the hard way by
listening to people who it turns out had no clue. As I have a
science/engineering background I definitely appreciate the way your articles
are written, especially the presence of references.
<Thank you for your acknowledgement.>
On to my questions, I
have been in the process of recovering my 50 gal 48" aquarium from neglect
following moving, and incorporating the learning's from my recent
investigations. I have got rid of undergravel filtration and am now running
a pro-aquatics canister at ~155gph. I am using a substrate mixture of
laterite, black onyx sand, and gravel. Next up is lighting. I was
wondering if you had any input on the advantages/disadvantages of twin tube
compact fluorescents?
<Lots of personal and second-hand experience, not much scientific>
I found a company (AHSupply.com's) that is selling
systems that seem very cost effective using these type of bulbs, complete
with true solid state ballasts.
<Am familiar with this outfit from bulletin boards>
I am simply suspicious due to the
relatively low cost (~$124 for a system that supposedly should produce
~220W), and if the bulbs of sufficient quality are readily available from
sources other than this supplier.
<Do take a look at the reports of others re AH: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/>
Also I have a water question, I have a
potassium based water softener, what concerns, if any, should have about
using this water untreated in my planted aquarium, and is there special
nutrient supplementation I should do to account for what is lost in the
softening process?
<Would not worry re the potassium issue (typically unimportant as rate limiting or overabundance in these applications), and the re-constitution of your source water hardness, mineral content may prove an issue... depending on the species you choose, how much biomass, boosted metabolism/growth you intend or drive... Easy enough to do a "bio-assay" and grow what you will/want, note its appearance... and/or utilize test kits to assure your water is within whatever practical ranges of chemical, physical make-up... In practical terms... for folks like me (basically lazy) the addition of some "straight tap" serves well-enough here... even when utilizing "excess" light, CO2 infusion...>
Any help would be greatly appreciated, but I am sure you get a great deal of
questions.
Thanks,
Nate Berg
<A pleasure to interact, learn.>
ps. Any sources for bulk laterite? $15/box adds up pretty quickly...
<Not currently. Do check with the Krib, ours and other chatforums. Bob Fenner>
Soils (for planted aquariums. More information...)
Robert,
I read your article on The Aquarium Gardener Series "On the use of soil in aquarium gardening.
First, there are commercially available substitute soil that I have seen. In fact, I used it on my 75g tank. They are stick like granules similar to those of Kare's "root of nutrient stick" but a lot smaller. Are these better that the real laterite soil?
<Hmm, don't know. Have they been working out for you? There are "stick like" amendments that are made for terrestrial use that incorporate "slow/er release" fertilizers that I know do not work... too much nutrient, too fast... But w/o knowing the name/composition of the one you're referring to, I can't say>
Since I can just dig some laterite from my backyard do you think this kind of soil would be better that supplement
I am using?
<... Really, the only way to tell is to set up some example tank/s and try it out>
The only thing is that, like in your article, it would be very unpractical and painstaking if I'd have to change the bottom layer of laterite
every time there is a depletion in the trace elements in it.
<Oh, this is actually not such difficulty... Many folks supplement as time goes by, via pressing fertilizers as solids into the substrate, and/or adding dilute liquids to the water itself. Total tear downs can be in intervals of years>
Do you know any means in making the soil compact and dry so that I can shape them into dry sticks then later use them when needed?
<Good idea... you might try low temperature oven baking (on a nice warm day when the windows, doors can be left
open) and wetting-forming and redrying the soil>
Hoping for your reply.
Regards,
Leo
<You have many good ideas... worth trying, experimenting. Bob Fenner>
Re: Re: Soils
Bob,
Thank You for your reply. The brand I am using come in the name UP.
<Hmm, never heard of this product...>
It is a company from Taiwan or Singapore. They said that this is the latest technology which means they say "even better than laterite". I am not sure with this claim though. I'll try on experimenting on solidifying the soil.
<Do you have an address? A description of the product contents? Bob Fenner>
Regards,
Leo
Re: Re: Re: Soils for planted aquariums
Bob,
Its all in Chinese. I'll checked again further on this. By the way, I also have access to laboratory grade
chemicals. Would you know any formulation to [produce any kind of fertilizer, trace
elements, or iron supplement?
<There is bandwidth archives dedicated to such. See our links on www.WetWebMedia.com for the URL for "the Krib" for the AGA/Aquatic Gardener's Association... much there. Bob Fenner>
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