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Amazon Sword Plant, trimming 9/30/06
Hi everyone im
<I'm>
new to the site, but have been doing research all day today on Amazon sword
plants, but haven't came across the info i was looking for.
Ok ive
<I've>
had my sword for about 3 months now, and its growing out of the water. I wanted
to know if these plants could be trimmed,
<Can be, but unless this Echinodorus is "getting in the way" I'd leave it sans
trimming... maybe except fo obviously yellowing, dying side-leaves on the
bottom>
and if so how, like where do you cut at and stuff like that.
Thanks you have a very informative site by the way!!!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Platy and Plant problems 9/17/06
Hello WetWebMedia crew!
<John>
After several months of a well-established tank, I have developed
quite a frustrating and persistent problem. It began with a stubborn case
of fin rot on a guppy that would not resolve. Consequently I treated with
erythromycin for 5 days and this cleared up the problem with his tail and he
is now on the mend! Nitrites have fallen back to zero from peaking at about
0.3 ppm and the tank is doing fine in terms of water quality. Parameters
are:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 12 ppm
pH: 7.5
Temp: 25C
The tank is approximately 24 gallons and 40 cm deep with 18W
fluorescent lighting (single tube) from Sylvania that claims to have 10,000K
spectrum and the company says is ideal for growing plants. As the
medication damaged some of my plants, I have removed the dying ones and
replaced with some new ones (soaked for 10-15 min.s in potassium
permanganate to remove unwanted visitors) - similar to Amazon swords, but I
only have the Italian name and not the scientific name.
<Both likely Echinodorus species>
The problem with the plants is that they are turning yellow and
developing some brown holes on the established leaves (veins seem green)
even after I purchased them a healthy green colour from the LFS. I have
fertilized with solid pellets and have also used a pellet that encourages
rooting. There is also some liquid fertilizer in the tank that I add
approximately every three weeks as indicated on the product. Still, I am
not sure what would be causing this.
<Mmm... could likely be just the KMnO3 treatment... permanganate is
a powerful oxidizer... dangerous. But could also easily be a bit of "moving
shock" syndrome... All that can be done is be patient at this point>
The second problem is with a female sailfin platy. I noticed her
with some laboured and rapid breathing. She does not swim as much and seems
lethargic. On closer inspection I could see fine white filaments (diameter
is sub-millimetre, very fine) extruding from her mouth and also extruding
from her gills. Looks like very fine silk thread. Currently I can see
about 4 or 5 of these maybe 3-4 mm long. Could this be gill worms?
<Mmm, not likely, no>
I had thought mouth fungus, but it does not look "cottony". If
worms, then I am not sure where they came from as the plants I added are not
from a tank containing fish and I even did the potassium permanganate soak,
so it seems improbable that this would be the source. There have been no
new additions and it is even possible that I was seeing these prior to the
addition of the plants. Clearly it is a gill problem, but I cannot seem to
identify it. Would this possibly result from the erythromycin treatment??
<Likely this is some bit of mucus from the trials of being present
in a non-cycled system... and will clear on its own>
I hope you can offer some advice as I am not sure what is going on
with my tank!
Best regards.
<Well... better by far never to actually treat (most fish medicines
are generally bio-cidal in action) in ones main/display tank (but do
elsewhere)... And a need to understand that aquatic time-frames are
different (much more delayed) than our terrestrial impressions... Some/many
things "take time"... Best to learn/practice patience here. Bob Fenner>
FW Ram and Plant Questions - 5/2/2006
1. My rams have been doing very well lately but I just have 1 concern. On
the bottom of their bodies, they are fine but about half way to their tail
and
their body's curve inward. Is their stomach not full? Are they hungry or
starving? They always eat but my other fish are really quick and I don't
want to put
more food in because if my other fish are full... the rest will go to waste
and pollute my tank. What should I do?
< Over feed them some live brine shrimp or Tubifex worms and see if they
fill out. You may need to change the food to sinking pellets to make sure
they get enough to eat.>
2. I have one Brazilian Sword and it has 4 open leaves and one that is in
the process of opening. Will it grow more stalks with more leaves or is this
how
little it will be forever?
< The Brazilian sword plant is actually not a fully aquatic plant. The
leaves should be out of the water. You plant will slowly waste away after
awhile. Try switching to a fully aquatic plant like an Amazon sword.>
3. If there is a slight tear and around that tear, brown spots on one of my
swords' leaves, should I cut the entire leaf off because then my plant will
look really skimpy? Also, I if I cut anything off, I should cut it as close
as possible to the roots as with any plant right? Thanks
< The Brazilian sword is already rotting away. Swap it out for an Amazon
sword.-Chuck>
Re: Amazon Sword plants with Black Fungus - Makes Sense Now!
Bob and Crew,
<Dave>
Thanks. I understand more clearly now. I hate it when I go back and re-read
the FAQ once I have been pointed to
it specifically and it all of a sudden makes perfect sense.
<Mmmm, like old age... "beats the alternative!">
One follow up question: If the nutrient level in the water (NO3,
in my case - way too high) is the cause of the beard algae, and if the
leaf-wasting phenomenon (leaves becoming lacy) is due to a *lack* of
nutrients, then I must conclude that I need to research the measurement and
possible supplement of other (non-nitrogenous) nutrients? Does that make
sense, or am I still missing something?
<Well stated... yes, nitrate isn't actually very "available" to aquatic
plants... a good idea to provide either lots of fish "wastes", count on slow
growth... or provide a complete (N,P,K) fertilizer... and BEST to do this
AND have a soil mixed in with your substrate, carbon dioxide infusion....>
Got a lot to learn, apparently, that is for certain!
<Mmm, well... the way I see it, the more I understand the more I enjoy
life...>
I recently finished reading (pass 1) "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist";
please let me add my congratulations to the long list for the clearest
introductory marine aquarium text I have read. Excellent job. Quite
enjoyable.
Cheers, Dave
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words. Bob Fenner>
Re: Amazon Sword plants with Black Fungus, FAMA "sales"
Bob and Crew,
<Dave>
Thanks again for the response. Illuminating, as usual. Hopefully, this short
spate of follow-on questions is not overstaying my welcome.
<Not going to happen>
Well, I have spent the last several days perusing the WetWebMedia and The Krib
web pages per your earlier response, and I now find myself, like the guy in "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", with lots of great answers to my
questions, but, now, even more questions, some of them quite basic, it appears.
At the risk of being pointed to pages that I have seen but skipped in the last
several days, I am going to try and make sure I am not going in a completely
inappropriate direction here.
<Ahh, clarity is pleasurable... and your "quest" will yield this in time,
effortlessness>
My goal with the freshwater aquarium was to create a planted aquarium which
would host a reasonable amount of diverse but compatible freshwater fish, with
perhaps a few invertebrates. It is a sort of pre-school step for setting up my
90 gallon marine tank.
<Very good to understand a situation, critical to understand what one is
about...>
I have a 46 gallon glass tank with an undergravel filter as well as a Marineland
Penguin 170 outboard filter. I have two AquaClear 30 powerheads, located near
the top of the water, one on the left and one on the right, which drive the
undergravel filter. I have 2x Blue Tetras, 2x Neons, 2x Green Barbs, 2x Tiger
Barbs, 6x Glass Cats, 2x Plecos, 2x Chinese Algae Eaters, 6x Serpae Tetras, 2x
Masked Corys, and 2x, Clown Loaches, plus a few various small shrimp. My current
plant crop is limited to Amazon Swords, several of which are succumbing to the
Beard Algae that started this whole discussion.
<Yes>
Now, after reading through several of the WWM/Krib FAQs/Articles, I am a bit
concerned about the undergravel filter and its compatibility with the intent to
grow live plants. So, my first question is, do I need to dispose of the
undergravel filter, and, if so, what would I replace it with?
<I would at least "turn off" the powerheads (leaving the plates, risers in
place) at this point... the hang on filter will do what you need here>
A larger external mech/carbon/bio filter? Or do I need to take a page from
marine aquarium technology and set up some sort of sump (I don't have a ready
location for this sort of thing with the freshwater tank)? Or what? I thought I
had done a good job of going through the set-up FAQs before I started, but, did
I make a major mis-calculation here?
<I would see how the current hang on does... do monitor your nitrogen cycle
initially... as cessation of circulation through the substrate does have some
consequences>
Some of the WWM webpages seem to indicate that using an undergravel filter is
perfectly compatible with plant cultivation. Is this true?
<Mmm, strictly speaking, yes... Please allow me a shot to be clear/er here.
Non-rooted plants (e.g. "grasses") do not "care" whether there is UG use or
no... many rooted plants are disadvantaged by UG use... loss/competition for
nutrients mostly... Such that these rooted plants are far better off "planted"
in blind pots, or sequestered to an area that lacks UG plates... Overall, almost
all "planted freshwater aquariums" are far better off WITHOUT undergravel
filtration.>
The idea I have forming here is to add substrate (I am using natural 1/8" - 1/4"
mixed gravel) so it is deeper, say 2-1/2" - 3" or so (I have about 1-1/2" - 2"
right now) and buy or make some small plastic dishes, say 3" - 4" in diameter,
maybe 2" deep for each plant and "plant" each plant in an aquatic soil (need to
figure out what that means, as well) in one of these Petri-dish sort of things.
However, this would seem to restrict me to plants whose root systems are
clustered, and would seem to mean I would have to forget any idea of cultivating
"carpet" type plantings. This, with considered application of some (small)
amount of NPK fertilizer would seem to offer an alternative to disposing of the
undergravel filter.
<A good plan, but this is so>
BTW, while exploring the possibility of downloading some of the FAMA references
in various WWM pages, I see that FAMA is now soliciting requests from
subscribers (I am one) for online back-issue articles. They say that they
haven't a lot available yet, but the webpage for requesting articles is "Article
Request Page" if anyone is interested.
<Thank you for this... good of them, but disturbing for content providers...
they do NOT have the legal right/s to reproduce our work... A small concern of
mine for my part... as my hundreds of articles, thousands of images that ran in
their pages are posted on WWM...>
I have requested a few .. we'll see what happens.
Cheers and Many Thanks.
Dave
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Amazon Sword plants with Black Fungus
Bob & Crew,
<Dave>
Thanks for the info. I have unplugged the undergravel filter (I plan to set up
the two powerheads for circulation only) and installed a larger (280 GPH)
external power filter, plus I am doing 10% water changes every other day until
the NO3 level gets down to something reasonable.
<Keep this under 1.0 ppm>
I plan to limit the gravel vacuuming to weekly at present until I see what the
result of the above steps is. I may need to clean it more thoroughly, but I
figured I'd approach that with caution.
<Good>
I will quit requesting/downloading articles from the FAMA website - I did not
realize that that was not sanctioned by the authors. It would probably be a good
idea to make that fact more generally known.
<I thank you for this... as a content provider being stolen from, a citizen,
human>
One (another) follow-up question: can I go ahead and start trying an NPK plant
nutrition supplement while the NO3 level is high, or do I
need to wait until the NO3 level gets down to 0 - 20 ppm
before starting to use NPK supplements?
<Mmm, don't know... in my ignorance, I would NOT add it at this point. You might
posit the same question on "thekrib"... look into making PMDDs going forward...
Bob Fenner>
Tank Replacement and Plant Transplant Questions
Hey guys,
Thanks for providing such a great service. You guys are the greatest.
I have a 55 gallon discus tank planted with Amazon sword plants. Everything
seems to be in a great balance, which took an awful long time to achieve. Sword
plants are multiplying and discus seem happy. The problem is the aquarium
itself. The support at the top has broken and I am concerned about the stability
of the tank. My question is will the sword plants survive a move to another
tank? It has taken several years to achieve such a good balance and I hate to
lose everything. How hard will it be to transplant the swords? Will it be like
starting over? What is the least invasive way to take out and replace the sword
plants? I am also concerned about the two discus. They are adult size and
apparently are a pair, but are very sensitive and do not like to be fooled with.
Anytime a change is made they get very upset. Thanks for the response.
< These tanks with the plastic support in the top center get old and fragile and
break. I took a piece of glass and cut it to fit from the front of the tank to
the back of the tank and about 6 inches wide. Drop the water level about 6
inches from the top of the tank and silicon the new piece of glass in place
under the old broken bracket. Hold it in place with some clamps or vice grips.
Take a straight edge to the front of the tank. Your tank may be bowed so you
should straighten it out before it is siliconed back in place. After a couple of
days you can go ahead and fill the tank back up.-Chuck>
Best regards
Bart
Concerning an Amazon sword specimen
I have had an Amazon sword for almost a year now. When I first bought the
plant, it only had about three large leaves. After putting it into a tank,
(which
only held about four gallons and had no controlled heat or any lighting, [I
was living in a college dorm at that time]) my plant grew and developed many
more large, beautiful leaves. But, then I moved back home and put the plant (and
my two goldfish) into a 10-gallon tank with a flexible-necked floor lamp next
to it to supply light, (the tank has no hood besides a framed mesh screen,
and thus no built-in lighting). Since then, my plant has not grown larger, and
the leaves have become very narrow and are beginning to turn brownish and
frayed on the ends. What can I do to help the poor thing?
< Hard to tell. Sometimes Amazon swords don't like to be moved and will lose
their old leaves but soon grow new leaves to adapt to the new environment. I
would start by replacing the light bulb in the lamp with a Gro-lux light that is
a full spectrum light bulb made for indoor plants. I would use fluorite by
Seachem as a substrate. Start with these two things first. They should
help.-Chuck>
Stephanie
Problems With Plants
Hi,
I am having problems and this time with my plants. I tried to look up their
care but did not find answer. I have bought 2 plants initially (I have 55 gal
tank). One was onion plant, another I do not remember. They grew like crazy
for a while and I decided to get some more. I got a big sword plant and 2
smaller ones, one grass type, another--purple leave one.
<Typically, anything reddish and anything used primarily as foreground require
very strong lighting - what kind of lighting to you have on your tank?>
Once I got those, it seems that all my plants stopped growing. I fertilized
them, I started to turn my pump on the lowest setting (I have the one that hangs
on the side of my tank). I have constant light for 11 hours, water conditions
seem to be excellent and I do not know what is going on. I assume it might be
lack of CO2 because when there were only 2 plants in the tank, they grew right
by my eyes and now one of them seems to be almost dead,
<Lack of CO2 *might* be an issue, but I'm betting in this case, the new plants
require brighter lighting, and if that isn't available, they probably won't
survive. The lack of growth in the other plants probably is due to either not
enough nutrients to go around, or not enough CO2 to go around.>
only half of what I had is left, well I kind of moved it from place to place a
lot since I got that plant, maybe that was harmful?
<Rough handling can damage some plants; it would really help to know what they
were, though. You might want to try out a good plant book, "Encyclopedia of
Aquarium Plants" by Peter Hiscock or "Aquarium Plants, a Practical Guide" by
Pablo Tepoot. Both are quite informative, full of good stuff.>
I am really bummed and after spending time on the internet and trying to find
what is the matter, I decided to write you.
<Ahh, don't get bummed yet. We can certainly help you through this.>
I also have a question, I have a black hood and I was told to put a glass
instead and put more light on the tank, where can I buy the glass hood?
<Most fish stores carry them - but that won't affect your lighting intensity
well enough to house very demanding plants. I'm assuming you're using a single
strip light, like what usually comes in a tank kit? There are a lot of plants
that like low-light situations (like your onion plant - Crinium thaianum - and
things like java moss, java fern, plants in the genus Anubias and Valisnera;
really, you have a whole lot of options, no matter what your lighting situation
is.>
And also if it is the lack of CO2, can I put the liquid CO2 in or do I need to
get some device (I saw those on sale on the internet).
<I don't much trust the liquid CO2 stuff; admittedly, I haven't tried it at all,
but I've been discouraged by a couple of friends who have had poor
results. Check out this link, to learn how to build your very own CO2 unit: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-narten.html
. It's easy, inexpensive, and (if you're a freak like me), fun.>
So I hope to get an answer from you soon and thank you very much, your web-site
is the best. Lina
<And thank you, Lina, for the kind words!! Hope everything goes
well! -Sabrina>
Swordplants of the Genus Echinodorus
My plants seem to be doing fine in the past, but now the leaves are now
turning yellow and then to a deep rust color. Thus dying and falling off. Could
you help me on this issue? Any lighting requirements, additives? My Oscars seem
to stay away from them, swimming near the top in hopes of a meal every 5
minutes. Robert C. Moyer
<It could be caused by any number of things, a change in water circulation
(i.e.: movement of powerheads), a disruption of the roots while vacuuming the
gravel or by your Oscars digging, etc. The addition of a CO2 Reactor may help
but is not always necessary for these plants. Please read
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/echinodorus.htm and the
related FAQ’s for more info. Ronni>
Sword plant - leaves turning rusty
I've recently set up a planted 10gal freshwater tank. My sword plant's
leaves have been steadily turning a rusty color. Would this be an algae problem
or some other disease perhaps? None of the other plants seem to be experiencing
this problem (Anubias). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Iris
<It could just be a lighting issue. If your lighting is stronger or weaker than
the tank they came out of then the leaves could change color. It could also have
to do with nutrients in the tank. Go to
http://www.wetwebmedia.com
and search for Sword Plant to see what it pulls up. You should find a ton of
helpful info there. Ronni>
Pesky Swords
Greetings, you guys have been the best resource to date for me, thanks!
<Thank you!! Ronni here this morning.>
With your help I now have a 50gal planted tank where the algae is finally very
nearly under control. I have put in some swords (long stem, broad leaf at the
end), but am having trouble with them. They insist on putting out leaves (which
are reddish) above the water level, right next to the lights where they then get
cooked. Doesn't look nice. pH is ~ 7.6, been trying to lower it slowly (was
~8.2) to help control the algae. Right now it seems buffered at 7.6, doesn't
want to get much lower. Figured to let it sit for a couple weeks and see what
happens. Any hints for the swords, or did somebody sell me a houseplant?
<These shooters are normal for some plants; I have one that does the same thing
on a regular basis. Unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot you can do about it
other than clip the leaves off when they start getting close to the waters
surface. The only other thing that might work would be to raise your light a
little bit higher from the surface.>
Also, surface algae (growing in the gravel, on the plant leaves) is still an
annoyance, will getting pH lower help, or should I try to get a bit more
current. (Filtration is a 155gph can and a UV sterilizer (only way I could
finally kill the floating algae bloom))
< I am curious as to what kind of lighting you’re using? Too much lighting can
really increase algae. On my planted tank I have 3 40w NOF’s that are on for
about 15 hours daily and my plants seem to do really good with these but it’s
not enough that I have an algae problem. Actually, this is my most algae free
tank, even after months of being set-up I still have to supplement my pleco with
algae wafers to keep him from starving! Adding more current might help but it
may end up affecting your plants so add this cautiously. Lowering the pH may or
may not help. At this point I’d do some tinkering with the lights to see if that
helps. Maybe just removing one bulb for a little while. Or you can reduce your
photoperiod, that often helps.>
Thanks for the help! Nate
<You're welcome! Ronni>
RE: Pesky Swords
Another quick question, what if I were to cut my photoperiod to say, 4 hrs a
day, for about a week? Not good for the plants, but maybe they would be OK and
it would be sufficient for the algae to die. Thoughts? NjB
<This is something to try too although you might start with 8 hours rather than
4. See how the plants do at that and if the algae decreases. If the plants are
OK but the algae is still a problem, then try the 4 hours. Ronni>
Re: Pesky Swords
Should I clip them near the surface or at the base of the plant? If I clip
them all, my they will have no leaves at all. I assume that's not good for em'.
=)
<Yeah, it’d be better to clip them near the surface.>
4X55 brightwatt kit from AH Supply, ~12hrs/day.
<Might be a bit much. Your plants are probably loving it but unfortunately, so
is the algae.>
I'll pull a bulb from the end that has the most trouble for a week or two and
see what happens.
<Very good. One other thought, how old are the bulbs? If they're older, you
might try replacing them one at a time.>
Thanks again! Nate
<You're welcome! Ronni>
Echinodorus lapsing
Gage,
<Now you've got Bob>
Thanks for your advice on the discus. I have one more question regarding
my 100G planted tank. As I told you, I have (or had) a large red Rubin
sword that has been doing well for several months and was about15-18inches
tall and producing nice, reddish leaves. However, over the last week or so,
the leaves have started to develop clear, almost eroded away patches so that
the leaves become transparent in places. No other plant seems affected and
I have not added any new fish in the last month. There a plenty of snails
but there always have been and I grew a E. bleheri in the same tank w/o this
occurring. And the tiger lotuses, spatterdocks, a. rigidfolious, cryptos,
and various bunch plants are growing as fast as ever. I add iron,
macronutrients and micronutrients on a regular basis and keep the water in
good enough condition for the tetras to thrive. Is there some kind of sword
specific disease that I am missing?
<Likely not>
My search through the books mention the
dying off of leaves previously grown emersed, but whatever is going on is
killing the red leaves produced submerged, as well.
Thanks for you help.
Steve Thornton MD
<A few possibilities come to mind. The reddish leaves are a function of lighting
conditions... and you state you've had bleheri (that are) green in the same
system. You may be experiencing an example of photoadaptation... and/or there
may be a nutrient deprivation (likely nitrogen) from other plants being favored
under the existing circumstances (you might try inserting, injecting nitrogen
sources immediately around the Rubin's roots). Lastly do take a close look from
time to time at your fishes activity around this plant. Some may be "picking"
the leaves to pieces. Bob Fenner>
Looking for Echinodorus
Hi -
Just saw a link to your site. Seems very comprehensive.
<Getting better all the time>
A couple of questions. I was looking up info for Echinodorus aka sword
plants. ON you site I saw only two listed E. tenellus and E. bleheri. But in
the FAQs there was a reference to statements made in "the Echinodorus site". Is
there another area of your web site that I have not yet found on Echinodorus?
<There is another site dedicated to the genus... not ours though>
Similar for Anubias where I only found two plants listed.
Bob Alston
<Bob Fenner>
Echinodorus site @ wetwebmedia.com
Hi Bob,
at the Echinodorus site you wrote, that there are 3 species of Echinodorus
at Africa/Asia. The latest information belonging to Echinodorus is, that
Echinodorus occurs only in the American continent. All other information
are wrong.
You can find more information about Echinodorus at my homepage:
www.echinodorus-online.de
<Thank you for this link. Will place along with your statements here. Is it your
assertion that the species currently listed as Echinodorus have been placed in
other genera? What about members that can be found on Caribbean islands (e.g. E.
intermedius)? Bob Fenner>
Best wishes Curt
Echinodorus publications...
Dear Mr. Fenner,
as I am very interested in the genus Echinodorus, I was surprised to find so
many articles on your webpage which were unknown for me.
<Yes, a popular, widespread, useful group of plants>
Especially, you noted down some journal abbreviations I could not find
anywhere. It would be interesting for me to get the publicaions in FAMA and TFH,
but without correct journal name it was not possible to order these articles
via libraries.
<Sorry for this laziness on my part. These acronyms stand for Freshwater and
Marine Aquarium and Tropical Fish Hobbyist. Their website addresses can be found
here on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/links.htm
Please make it known if you have a lack of fortune in locating actual citations.
Bob Fenner>
Best regards,
Dierk
D. Wanke
Max-Planck-Institute
for plant breeding research
Dept. biochemistry/phytopathology
AG Somssich
Carl-von-Linne Weg 10
50829 Koeln
e-mail: echinodorus@gmx.de
wanke@mpiz-koeln.mpg.de
phone: +49 - (0)221 - 5062 - 314
fax: +49 - (0)221 - 5062 - 313
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