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Clown trigger... hlth... reading Clown trigger dead... Writer didn't
READ 8/6/07 My clown trigger passed away this mourning
<Maybe you are> it had a red ring around its mouth. At first it
was a faint red but when I saw it dead it was a darker red is this the
reason it died? If so what was the red ring. Also my tank was very warm
at 93 degrees $$$$$$$$ITZ NOT EZ BEING ME$$$$$$$$$$ <... Please,
read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ RMF>
Sick clown trigger 12/6/06 Hi.
<Hello there> It's been a few years since I had to bug you
with a question (usually I can find the results by search you website),
but I have a problem with my clown trigger that I can't cure or
find an answer for. To begin, the fish is 7 1/2 years
old. So that may be the problem. He has not eaten
in almost two weeks. <Balistids not feeding is always a source of
concern> No one was around to feed him on Thursday and Friday of
Thanksgiving (usually not a problem for him to go two days without food
-- <Agreed> although he might disagree), when I went to feed
check up on him and feed him on Saturday, it was already evening and
the light was out in his tank, so I didn't think much of it when he
didn't was sleeping behind a rock. <Natural>
However, by Sunday I knew there was something
wrong. He spent a week "hiding" behind rocks etc.
<Not natural> He was very lethargic, would not eat, and when he
swam looked dizzy, swam slow and bumped into things.
<Something happened...> However, he did not have any spots,
flecks etc. on his skin. His eyes were not cloudy, and his
fins looked o.k. (not rot). All of the other fish in
the tank (a box fish, <Perhaps this...> a dwarf angel, a passer
angel and a hawk fish -- all which have been in the tank for months or
years, so nothing new has been added) are
o.k. In fact the only thing new that I am aware
being introduced into the tank was a partial water change the Monday
before Thanksgiving. <Mmm, would've mal-affected the other
fishes> Last week I tried a couple of different medications, in case
it was an internal parasite or infection -- I tried Maracyn
two for a few days, and then Cupramine. <Nah> I have used both of
these in the past, but neither appeared to help here. Last Friday, I
put the carbon back in the canister filter and put a new bulb in the
U.V. filter (the old one had burned out apparently). <I'd check
for stray voltage here...> Over the weekend, he started
swimming more and was generally out of hiding, but still not
eating. His swimming was better, but still a bit slow and
bumping into things. On Sunday I noticed him relieving
himself. It took a long time, and a couple of pieces of
white feces came out. The were not long or stringy. <Mmm,
what do you generally feed this fish? Anything live that might have
brought something in with it? Anything too fatty? Not "feeder
goldfish" I hope/trust> Rather, they looked like the gravel
from the bottom of the tank, but a bit fuzzy. At that point,
I thought may be he had swallowed some gravel (you know how they like
to play in the gravel and spit it out). <Yes... a worthwhile
speculation> I had the water tested by the L.F.S. and
they said it was excellent. They also thought swallowing
some gravel could have been his problem. However, that was
four days ago and he still is not eating. I noticed him
relieving himself again today, and all that came out was a small piece
of white feces. He was swimming around a lot this morning, but now is
resting behind a rock again. There is still nothing visibly
wrong with him in terms of flecks, skin deterioration, ulcers, eyes
etc. One other thing, in the past couple of hours a bunch of
small particles have appeared in the tank. They look about
the size of gains of undissolved salt. Could these be dead
(or unattached) parasites, as a result of the Cupramine being added
last week? <Mmm, highly doubtful... not likely pathogenic> I am
considering tying the Maracyn-two again, on the theory that it was an
internal parasite, <Not worthwhile... Minocycline wouldn't treat
for this/these in any case> but I really don't like to medicate,
especially on guess work. On the other hand, it's hard
not to try and do everything possible to help him. Any thoughts you can
share with me will be appreciated. Regards, Rob
<My best guesses are that the Trigger may have consumed a
"bug", as in an insect (either a social/venomous one or one
that in turn had a substantial pesticide residue)... Or... that it
somehow "bugged" the Boxfish enough to get a good bit of its
body slime into its mouth/system (very toxic)... At this point, I'd
move the fish to other quarters if you have such, treat with Epsom Salt
(see WWM re), and soak its intended foods (offer daily) with an
appetite stimulant/vitamin supplement. Balistoides niger can live for
decades in captivity. I do hope yours rallies. Bob Fenner> Out, out! Damn Spot! Apologies to Lady Macbeth - 10/9/06 Hi WWM Crew! <Greetings, Emerson with you today> A few weeks ago, I found 3 or 4 white spots on the fins of my clown trigger. I put him in a freshwater dip for 10 minutes, moved him into QT and, thinking it was ich, started a copper treatment using SeaCure for 14 days. <Kudos to you for moving the suspect fish to QT. Was this the only fish in the display tank and were there any other signs of infestation besides the spots? Also, were you testing copper levels daily? Testing is an extremely important part of a copper regimen and can determine success or failure.> At the end of the two weeks, he still had one prominent spot on his fin so I gave him another freshwater dip, to no avail. After using poly filter to remove the copper from the tank I let him rest for a few days before trying a 50 minute formalin dip. The white spot is still there, but he's eating well and looks okay otherwise. Should I try another formalin or freshwater dip? What do you recommend? <At this point I would recommend a wait and see attitude. The single white spot that has remained is likely not Cryptocaryon as the Trophont stage only resides on its fish host for a few days. It may be a scar or slowly healing wound among other possibilities. Leave your trigger in QT for a few weeks with excellent water quality (i.e.: large, frequent water changes) and observe, observe, observe! If spots return or you see scratching, hiding, cloudy eyes, lack of interest in food then its time to consider treatment again and possibly rethink your strategy.> Thank you! <You are most welcome, and I wish you the best!> Liz Clown Triggers...Miserable Store Display Systems -- 09/27/06 Dear WWM Crew, <<Cheers Rache>> You have been very helpful to me in the past so I was wondering if you might help me with a small dilemma? <<I'll certainly try>> On our many trips to LFS I have felt very sorry for two clown triggers (Balistoides conspicillum) one is approx 4-inches in length the other 5-inches, they are of course in separate holding tanks, these tanks are tiny possibly 8-inches cubed if they are lucky. <<Ugh!...so cruel. I do recall seeing many such 'holding/specimen display' systems while stationed in the UK. No structure/hiding places, just a small plastic cube (usually one of many in long banks of several rows on a central filtration system) to keep the fish 'exposed'...and all the ills/stress associated re...truly sad>> I cannot bear this any longer as they have been there about a year or more. <<Amazing, would have thought them to have 'succumbed' by this time. True testament to the sturdiness of the species...but gosh...the developmental retardation these fish have been subjected to...!>> We are setting up two new tanks one holding approx 138 gallons the other 104 gallons. <<I see...think I know where this is going...>> My first question is would you advise that they were the only fish in these tanks? <<Always my friend...many accounts of this fish 'suddenly killing everything in the tank'>> Obviously one in each tank. <<Another necessity, yes>> My second question is do fish suffer mental anguish? <<In my opinion, yes. I can't point to any scientific data to support my belief, but years of observing the developmental and behavioral issues I now believe to be associated with keeping fish in unsuitable/too small environments leads me to this conclusion>> I was wondering if there might be long term damage done to these two individuals and how do you go about acclimatizing to a much larger tank? <<Mmm, indeed...what would be 'your' mental state if kept in the coat closet for a year? Wouldn't you just be glad someone opened the door? I think acclimation would be the same as any other fish, but don't forget the need for a proper quarantine/close observation of these fish before introduction to the display tank.>> I have done lots of reading and know they can get to approx 20 inches but would these individuals be stunted because of their confinement? <<Possibly...or worse>> I am a veterinary nurse and I'm sorry to say I always chose the sorry looking fish so that I can try to help them, it's a failing of mine. <<Not a 'failing' at all...as long as you have the proper facilities to house/care for the fish...and as long as you aren't bringing home fishes better left in the oceans, thus compelling uncaring or ignorant store owners to acquire more of the same>> There would be no problem if they needed bigger tanks in future as we will address that issue when it arises. <<Are slow growers, these tanks will serve for a time but yes, will likely require larger quarters in the long term>> Thank you for your time in this matter, kind regards Rache Hill ( England ) <<It is my pleasure to assist. Eric Russell (South Carolina)>> Stressed Clown Trigger? - 07/04/06 Hello fellas. <<Don't forget the ladies...>> I had a quick question. I recently purchased (2 days ago) a small clown trigger from my local LFS. <<A true ALPHA fish if there ever was one>> I just noticed that at the very top near his dorsal fin has lost a little bit of color. The black behind the top few spots has turned kinda white. Is this a disease? <<More likely environmental...complicated with collection/shipping stress>> How can I get this little fella feeling better? <<Provide an optimum environment, water quality, diet, et al...and read/research re this species on our site, and the net in general>> Thanks, Josh Henley <<Regards, Eric Russell>> - Clown Trigger Questions - Hello, <And hello to you, JasonC here...> I've recently set up a semi predator tank with inhabitants including a clown trigger (3.5 in), snowflake eel, <My friend, with these two creatures alone, the word "semi" does not belong - this is a true predator tank.> formosa wrasse and a recently added Imperator Angelfish (4.5 in) and my triggers colors have been fading since his addition I am not sure if this is a sign that he is stressed out from the new arrival or if it might be related to either a feeding or disease issue. <Could be any one of those - how big is this system?> About 6 weeks ago, I noticed spots on him and corrected by treating my tank with a mild based copper treatment (killed my cleaner wrasse) which seemed to correct the situation and regularly am checking for signs of return <Egad... this is not a correction by any means. Treating your main system with copper will likely stall your biological filter and could even lay it to waste. You should do some rudimentary water tests to make sure ammonia and nitrite are not building up...> In regards to feeding I try a few goldfish/ghost shrimp twice a week and for the balance of the week feed the tank brine shrimp and frozen krill. At what size can I feed him crayfish and what size should they be in relation to him <I would stick with frozen foods like Prime Reef and other meaty foods, shrimp, krill, squid, etc. Live foods tend to cause too much aggression which this clown trigger doesn't need to have encouraged.> All assistance is greatly appreciated <I would encourage you to browse and read the Wet Web Media site - all of these animals and their captive care requirements are covered there in addition to quarantine and treatment procedures for ailing fish.> Chris <Cheers, J -- > - Baby Clown Trigger - I got my baby clown trigger in today
from fishsupply.com. I must say I'm not very happy. The fish came
with TWO CLOUDY eyes. My wishful thinking is telling me that maybe its
normal for Clown Trigger fish for their eyes to appear cloudy?
<Cloudy eyes are not normal.> But I know its probably hopeless.
<Not so... make sure it's eating, has good water quality, and
isn't being hassled by other fish or getting sucked into the filter
and it should pull through.> Only reason I say that is because I
remember having a HUMU HUMU and his eyes always appeared cloudy but
they really weren't. <I know what you're talking about but
the clown trigger eyes are not the same as the Huma Huma.>
That's just the way the looked and if u looked closely they were a
real pretty blue. You think this is the case with the Clown trigger?
What can I do? I have a 5 day guarantee on him but I'm sure
he'll live for at least that long. <I agree with you there...
might want to at least talk to the folks where you bought it and report
its initial condition - perhaps ask what happens on the sixth day.>
Cheers, J -- > Clown Trigger With Ich 7-25-30 Hi my name is Paula <Cody here, sorry for the delay.>and I purchased a tiny clown trigger from the company I work for. I never acclimated it to the system when it came in at work. I brought it straight home and put it into a twenty gal. with 15 pounds of live rock and 2 maroon clowns the clowns do not bother it. I noticed the trigger clown had ich on it's fin before leaving work and was hoping that being in an established system the fish could recover on it's own. Before going any farther my ammonia is 0 ppm my nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are 10 ppm and salinity is 1.018. I purchased the fish Thurs. it's now Tues. (5 days) no better no worse eats great a little shy unless he's being fed but is doing well so far. My dilemma is do I wait or treat with CopperSafe now. I have a 75 gal. with a Foxface rabbit, regal and yellow tang, blue fin angel, yellow headed goby, bi-color and lawn mower blennies, snowflake moray which will eventually go in with the trigger, and a Percula clown with two cleaner shrimp and a fire shrimp. The only time I have ever had a problem with Ich is when I first brought the 75 gal. home stalked with 1/2 the fish in it now, bought from individual already set up. That was a chore in it's self I carried 60 gal. of water back with me and kept all rock submersed separate from fish. This is the last fish I am buying for a long time I have wanted a clown trigger for several years but knew it was not reef safe and it gets so large I wasn't ready to tackle that feet until my reef was complete. Anyway I haven't dealt with triggers much I know what they eat and what they are like but am concerned with how the clown trigger will react to the CopperSafe. Also I don't like using this with out knowing a little more about how to mix it, I have purchased a copper test kit but CopperSafe doesn't have the number amounts just teaspoon or what ever. What is the amount I should achieve and how long do I keep it their. I have read .35 and others .25 and others as high as .50 although I feel .50 is probably to hi what amount will actually kill the parasite after it falls of the fish? Or should I try something else? wait it out? Lower salinity How low is low enough? I thought 1.016 but I have read 1.010 is that to low? I have a 2 1/2 inch cleaner would a 2 inch or less Clown trigger kill him? I fear yes if not I will try the cleaner shrimp first?<The trigger would probably eat the cleaner. Just add copper until the correct level is reached, put about 15 drops in the tank, if you are using the 20 gal. Then add more drops as needed. I would shoot for copper levels around .2-.25. Also if you want to keep the LR live you will need to take it out before treating. It would be best to also have no substrate as it can absorb the copper. The rock will need to sit in a separate container for at least a month before it can be put back in with fish. It would be best to also have no substrate as it can absorb the copper. Also if you use copper I would keep the salinity up to normal levels.> What do I do??? Help! - Clown Trigger Problems - I have some pics of the clown trigger fish, also the queen angel is in another tank along with the tusk. Right now in my 125 I have the Emperor angel, clown trigger, and some damsels, I am thinking about adding a powder blue tang to the mix though. <Please hold off on this choice for a little while - is best to stock very slowly and let the fish get a chance to get to know one another before you add any more neighbors. Also, the Powder Blue is a notoriously ich-prone fish so you should quarantine FIRST, before adding the fish to your main system. More info on those tangs here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm > Anyway here you go, hopefully you can tell what it is that's on my clown trigger, thanks a lot. <Hard to make anything out very well from those photos, but I think it might be a mechanical injury - perhaps from trying to work over one of the other fish - wouldn't be too concerned.> Rene Brunetti <Cheers, J -- > Help! Sick Clown Trigger Hello, <Hi, Mike D here> You guys have been nothing but helpful before, so I'm back again in need of your expertise. I have a 2 year old 55 gallon saltwater tank. It contains some live rock, a large sailfin tang, large maroon clownfish, a rainbow wrasse, a medium-small lionfish, and a medium-large (4" or so) clown trigger.<Ouch! You are already maxed out on population with some major growing occurring as we speak...you have some hard choices ahead in your immediate future> Everyone in the tank is doing fine, eating well, swimming around . . . except my clown trigger. I've had him almost 2 weeks, and he's been doing great. A few days ago, I noted some suspicious white spots that looked all too familiar, so I dipped him for 10 min. in a HydroPlex freshwater dip. The spots have not returned (my UV sterilizer should have kept that from happening to begin with).<I assume you're referring to ick and 1) the spots disappearing doesn't mean that the freshwater dip worked, as it's part of the lifecycle of the fish, with each "spot" that disappeared falling off and splitting into up to 200 new smaller parasites to re-infect your fish. Often what happens is this second, stronger infection begins where it's not seen, in the gills! Another fallacy is that the UV sterilizer will cure/control ick, which it almost universally does not. Read the FAQs on UV sterilizers and I think you'll find what I mean.> Last night, I notice the trigger did not have his usual appetite, and did not eat. I just got home from work today, and he's lethargically moping around the bottom of the tank, breathing rapidly, and again, refusing to eat even when the food is in front of him. The water has had a recent change, tests appeared normal, all other fish are doing as well as usual. What might be wrong? Is there anything I can do?<I'd suggest removing to a separate hospital tank and begin your treatment of choice for Ick (there are many.. hyposalinity, dips, formalin treatments, etc.> This is my prize fish! I just got him at a once a year store sale for 50 bucks off! That won't happen again . . . . any ideas that can help me?<Again, hospitalize/Quarantine and treat for Ick as it's likely infesting his gills (often new fish that have been stressed will be parasitized while healthy, established fish will remain largely or completely normal due to their immune system and slime coats functioning at 100%) Once you've beaten this problem you need to start considering that both Sailfin Tangs and Clown Triggerfish get HUGE in a fairly short time (2-3 years) and will need a MUCH bigger tank ASAP.....imagine a full sized football painted the same color as your little clown trigger and you're looking at a 2/3 grown specimen, keeping in mind that marine fish do not grow only to the size of the tank they are in like some freshwater fish. Good Luck!> Thanks a billion, -Dave Sick Clown Trigger Thanks Mike. <You're more than welcome> Sadly, I awoke to day to find my clown trigger has gone on to a better place. Yet, thank you kindly for your advice. You're advice about tank size with the animals I have will be a major factor in future considerations. <At least he didn't die in vain then. Clowns in particular are actually well known for being extremely delicate as small juveniles and indestructible as adults, where they BECOME the major cause of death for other tankmates> Thanks again, -Dave Discolored Clown Trigger... poor mix, environment (Marina Looks for Photos..) I have a 4 month old Long 30 gallon tank. heavily filtered. Prizm (H.O.T.) skimmer, old school gulf stream wet dry filter, 8 lbs live rock, phosphate absorbing media, carbon, PolyFilter. Also left in the undergravel filter, (covered by very little gravel) with 2 powerheads to pump the fish waste back up to the skimmer (ideally.) <Mmm, am sure you realize the requirements of substrate with UG filters, their shortcomings/strengths> I have more bio balls on order to increase the nitrifying bacteria for the system. I currently fight the nitrite with heavy skimming and a 1/3 water change weekly. currently levels are 2.5 PPM nitrite and 30 ppm nitrate. everything else is ideal. <... any nitrite is dangerous...> I have 1 Niger trigger 2.5 inches, 1 nano undulating trigger 1 inch, <<A what?>> 1 Royal Gamma 2 inches (lives in barnacles) 4 brave and fast damsels 3 Emerald Crabs (clean up crew) and a 2 inch clown trigger. <... crazy to have this much fish life in an uncycled system> everyone gets along. <Mmm, for now perhaps... apparently> - I know that your recommendations are for huge tanks with triggers, but I live in NYC and the triggers live as we do, in well laid out, small quarters. sleeping places for all and a good circuit to do laps. I do not want to reduce stock or trade in until they grow too big 1+ inch growth. I purchased the clown trigger 3 weeks ago. The clown trigger survived and ich infestation 10 days ago. I treated with a 5 minute fresh water dip, and then treated with copper. When I bought the clown it had some discoloration, but was eating well, and was an excellent price retail at $49.00. I decided to bring it home and with TLC bring it back to fighting strength. After undergoing medication, the clown is eating well, although only brine shrimp or Mysis. Does not seem to have the desire to attack the krill like the Niger. On one side of its body the colors are perfect. The photo attached is of the other side. There are white discolored patches. under close observation, it does not look to be fungus. Although the fins have some white bits forming, perhaps bacteria attacking post ich? <Mmm, no, at least not immediately, directly the problem... the source of troubles here is/are environmental... nitrite, likely transient ammonia, too much stress from unnatural assortment, crowding> Also the pectoral fins appear to be enduring some rot. I am going to the LFS to buy some Maracyn, is this the best course of action, given I am dedicated to not making tank size change or destocking? Also how long should scales take to grow back if scrapped from netting or shipping? <Mmm, no... antibiotics period are not a good idea in main/display systems... this one, Erythromycin is not a good idea period> Thanks for your help, your site is very interesting. - JR <Keep the nitrite down below 1.0 ppm... through huge water changes, careful feeding, add more substrate, get a bigger tank/s. Bob Fenner> Large clown trigger Hi Bob, Glad to hear from you again, how was your trip to Cooks? Were you there on assignment? <Fine, and "self-sponsored" assignment this time... making pix, visiting hashers and Chip Boyle...> I will collect my trigger tomorrow morning ( 14/10/00 ).I'm a bit excited because I was told that it is a fine specimen and over 8" ( cost me about US55+ ). <A bargain.> Bob I read your articles on acclimation and I want to ask you why usually when I tested the shipping water it is always towards acidic ( 7.4 )? And I have to slowly bring it up to 8.4 level before I dip it in fresh water with same PH and added with Methylene blue for 2 minutes, am I doing the right thing ? <The pH drops due to a combination of a loss of alkaline/reserve and respiratory and waste product production... best to very, very slowly raise the pH... through acclimation and to not allow any of the shipping water (laden with ammonia typically) to be transferred in the process... Take a look on the site: Home Page re "Guerilla Acclimation"> Or is it better to dip in salt water added with Maroxy ( Mardel ) for a couple of minutes? Was is your advice? Hope I hear from you in time. David. Trigger Happy!!! >> <Better to lower pH of the mixing water with a dilute soln. of HCl, and know what you're doing here... and aerate the mixed solution, allowing the pH to rise over an hour or more time, while aerating the mix water, and use either the Methylene blue and/OR the Maroxy... Bob Fenner, who warns all, this is for MOST types of marine fishes, not all, and NOT invertebrates> Clown Trigger Hi, I started a new tank and it has been cycled
for 2 weeks now. I have a clown trigger that has taken a turn for the
worst in the past couple of days. He has gray patches that have started
to connect and his color has been fading. He is breathing very heavy
and his fins have cloudy patches he has had these symptoms for the past
3 weeks. I first thought it was ick and threw in some medication for
ick that did not help. I then threw in Melafix that did not work and
then tried CopperSafe that didn't work and now someone told me to
use copper power which I threw in but has not worked either.
<Yikes... this is a bunch of toxic medications... your Clown Trigger
may have originally been reacting to most anything behaviorally...
environmentally... You state that the tank has only been cycled for two
weeks, and yet the Trigger was exhibiting "symptoms" for
three weeks? This time frame is too short to be placing fish
livestock...> Before adding any new medication I ran my filter
system with carbon for 2 days to get rid of the medication I previously
used. <Good idea> Last night I did a 25% water change and turned
on my 15 watt U.V light. I also tried giving him a fresh water dip but
he started to go on his side in a minute and a half I got scared and
quickly put him back in the tank. The numbers for my tank are Gravity -
1.22 Ammonia - None PH - 8.4 I have been using PH 8.2 but my ph keeps
on rising it was at 8.6 <Do have your test kit checked... and try
not to worry if the pH "only" gets this high... that is, I
wouldn't try to "correct it"... in time the pH will start
to drift down of its own accord> Nitrite - none Other fish in tank
include 6 damsels and one panther grouper they show no sign of
anything. I don't know if I'm making any sense but if you can
help me I would greatly appreciate it. <Is this Trigger still
eating? How large is this tank? Do you have live rock in it?
Filtration/aeration? I would increase the latter, add some live rock
and leave all else alone. Patience my friend. Please read over the
Marine Set-Up and Maintenance sections of our site: www.WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner> Phosphates Hi Bob, Glad you're around to help!!! I'm having a problem with my LFS. I bought a clown trigger from him and two days later he died. <Mmm, what sort of symptoms? Did the fish eat... ever? What else do you have in your system that is doing well? Need more clues...> I went back for a refund and he tested my water. My ph is 8.0, ammonia 0.0, nitrites 0.o, nitrates 15. He also tested for phosphates and said I was at 10. <Yeeikes, this is HIGH!> I thought phosphate problems were mostly related to algae, I don't have an algae problem. <Unusual that you don't have a bunch of algae growing here... I would test your water elsewhere/wise> This tank also has a lion fish, snowflake eel, valentini puffer and a damsel. No problems with them. I also found out that my LFS keeps his ph at 8.8. <What? Really... strange... not easy to do, safely... and many downsides in event of other troubles...> I harden my fish for 2 hours, slowly mixing my tank water with the LFS water before I release. So needless to say, he refused the refund. Is the high phosphates the cause of death or possibly the big change in ph? Thanks again for your help........Paul <Maybe a bit of both... this whole situation doesn't add up though... Ten ppm of soluble phosphate is very unusual period... w/o enormous algal problems almost unbelievable... a store maintaining a pH (likely with Kalkwasser and careful use of calcium chloride) to maybe precipitate phosphate (?) is unprecedented/unknown to me otherwise... and to lose what appears to be such a tough species of fish so easily in the face of the other livestock you list... anomalous to say the least. I would ask for at least partial credit or be shopping elsewhere. You are welcome to forward, show my opinions to your dealer. Bob Fenner> Help with clown trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Bob! I realize by the time you respond my fish may be dead, but its worth a try. I have a seven inch clown trigger which I've had for three years in a 75 gallon tank along with a Arothron puffer, purple tang, and a wrasse. I just noticed my trigger is on the bottom of the tank laying on his side, breathing normally, maybe a little shallow. When fish approach he flaps his fins but cannot swim. When he tries he remains bent and has no control. He has been very still for a few hours now. I fed the other fish, they are perfectly normal. This is the first situation I've had in five years so I'm a little caught off guard and don't know where to turn. I hope you can help and at least give me some preventive knowledge. Do fish die of old age? <They do, but this one is not old... May have eaten something "that didn't agree with it"... or be "pulling your fins"...> Thanks Bob, I know you are very busy but I don't trust anyone else's expertise. <No worries... I would do the S.O.P. of a water change, add carbon to the filter flow path, check water quality... Hopefully the fish "swallowed a bug that fell in" or is just "clowning around"... and will recover soon. Bob Fenner> Sick clown triggerfish? I have a clown triggerfish that is about 4 inches long. He still eats well and swims around all day, but, his color is fading out in spots all around him! What is this? Please help, and quick!!! Thanks, -Kevin <Mmm, either nutritional deficiency, "poor" water quality, or behavioral display/mal-adjustment. Please read through the Triggerfish materials archived on our site, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm on to the linked files, FAQs in blue above. Bob Fenner> Clown Trigger with Digenetic Trematodes <Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels> I have to say that I am a HUGE fan, I have read your book at least twice cover to cover, and is my bible for aquarium keeping!! <yes, we are in agreement> I recommend your book to everyone interested in keeping a saltwater tank, and can say you have a lot of fans on Saltwaterfish.com's message board! Now to my question, I have a Clown Trigger, that I have had for three years, very recently my impeller on my filter broke and the filter stopped working, for at least 24 hours; shortly after this incident the trigger developed small white spots on both pectoral fins, they did not seem to bother him, I did not worry to much, as I thought it must be a small bout with ick, which I was sure he would fight off. Now, two months later, he still has them; they still do not seem to bother him (by that I mean, he is not darting about the tank, or scratching on rocks) however, he has had some unusual behavior , such as hanging around in the bubbler and after eating, finding a place to rest on the bottom. <yes... one of the signs of some kind of parasites in the gills> I am thinking after a lot of reading, he may have some type of worm (digenetic Trematodes). I do soak the food in Kent's Garlic Xtreme, and would like to know if I should take further measures of treatment, and if so what type of medication would work best. Thank you so very much. J. Marshall <treatment in a quarantine tank specifically (not in main display) with Formalin is recommended. Follow manufacturers recommended dose as per instructions. Best regards, Anthony> "Spot" the clown trigger Dear WWM crew, I don't know if you will remember, but have emailed you before about my clown trigger, thought he had Metacercaria. <I do> However, now I believe it to be more than just the encapsulated worms, I think he may also have internal worms, need your help to diagnose. <Of a certainty all fishes and humans do have internal worms of various sorts... are they of number, kind, placement, size to be of consequence is the question> I have had spot for 3 1/2 years and only in the last six months has he shown symptoms like periodic loss of color, resting on the bottom with slow breathing. He is becoming less active by the day, although he is always on the ball when it comes to feeding time. I currently feed him FD krill soaked in ZOE vitamins, trigger formula, prime reef formula, formula 2 and use garlic additives to the food also. <Do add more/other whole fresh or frozen/defrosted meaty foods, drop out some of the prepared formulated foods> He appears to eat well, but spends most of his day on the bottom of the tank. After he eats his belly seems to be full, but by the end of the day his belly looks emaciated, almost like he is starving. <Good description> His tankmates include a zebra lionfish (2yrs) a Huma Huma trigger (4yrs) and a sunset wrasse (1yr). The other fish have absolutely no symptoms, and are eating healthy and active, with bright color. I pride myself on water changes and keeping my tanks clean. I have tried a few meds with Spot, but they seemed harder on him than what was actually bothering him. I have used formalin and Praziquantel in addition to feeding the garlic. Right now, I feel like Spots quality of life is not what it should be, and feel like he is suffering and it breaks my heart. I have read your site on disease and also the book by Gerald Bassleer "Diseases in marine aquarium fish" and just cannot find anything that fits his symptoms completely. <You know... you might try "floating out" a fecal sample (can be collected easier in a bare tank (quarantine/treatment), and looking under a scope for eggs... perhaps definitive. I would consider trying lacing the foods the specimen takes readily with Flagyl/Metronidazole... for three days or so... and see if the "wasting" subsides... other... Vermifuges might be tried as well (Piperazine, di-n-butyl tin oxide... and more modern compounds... from/via a veterinarian)...> Truly I am stumped with this one, and was hoping you might have a miracle cure. I just finished setting up and cycling Spot's permanent home a 240G, but he was to be the last fish added, as I was afraid any fish introduced after a healthy "Spot" would be harassed to death. <A wise arrangement/precaution> Would it be worth it to add him to the 240, just to see if he would perk up, should I just keep giving it the wait and see approach, I guess really I want to know, how do I know he is suffering and when it is time to say goodbye, which will probably be one of the hardest things I could do. <Not likely "suffering"... as in pain, remorse. Not to worry> Thank you so much for your time and your knowledge, from an extremely grateful hobbyist. J. Marshall <I would wait, try the anti-protozoal, perhaps the deworming materials... and see if this animal retains mass, before moving. One last item/question back to you: Is there live rock in this system? I would definitely add some if not... in the hope that "something" missing in the animals diet or water quality might be restored. Bob Fenner> "Spot" the clown trigger Just some more info on
"Spot", the night before he had lumps on both sides of his
abdomen, they were considerable in size and oval shaped. He seemed to
have to struggle to swim, not necessarily had an equilibrium problem,
just struggling to move himself through the water. The next morning
both lumps were gone, and he was waiting at the top of the tank to be
fed. Then last night, had another lump approximately the same size, but
only on one side, seemed again to struggle through the water, and again
this morning the lump is gone, and he is anxiously awaiting to be fed.
Thought this info. might help you make a diagnosis.
<bizarre... and rules out an actual growth(s). I'm wondering if
this silly or greedy fish isn't gulping or snapping at bubbles at
the surface or otherwise ingesting air?> Will be looking for your
reply, and again Thank You!! J. Marshall
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