Banggai Death 6/10/12
I just lost my first Banggai tonight after having him for only 15 days.
<Such "anomalous" losses are unfortunately all too common w/ this species>
I never saw him ever eat. In fact I even tried feeding after lights out so the other fish would not be so aggressive at dinner time. The fish I have in the tank are as follows, 2 Percula Clowns, 2 yellow tail Damsels, and a Coral Beauty. I also have a Skunk shrimp, 2 Peppermint Shrimp, 2 Emerald Crabs, Brittle Star, assortment of snails and hermit crabs. I also have a BTA.,
<Mmm, the Anemone and Mithraculus might be involved, implicated somehow>
2 Zoanthid colonies, pompom xenia, and green star polyps. My tank is a 55 gal. been running for 2 months with live sand and about 60# of live rock.
My parameters are:
Temp 80 deg.
The Banggai seemed ok at first. He would be mid column and pecking at particles in the evening when the lights were low. As the days went by I saw no physical changes just that he was starting to spend more time in the lower corner of the tank. Then eventually he would stay down there all the time. One day he had a long white feces hanging out that dropped off. He basically seem to decline as the days went. Again as I said I never saw him eat. Other than the feces I never saw any other physical signs of distress.
I also never saw any aggression from the other fish.
I guess my question is can I keep this species in my tank and do you have any suggestions of how I can get one to live in the tank.
<Yes, and all is posted... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/banggaidis.htm
and the linked files above>
I have read through all of your files on Banggais. I guess is it better to get a tank raised?
Are my parameters ok?
<Yes; mostly as confirmed by the viability for the other life you list>
Are the other fish in the tank ok.
<Should be; though more room would be better for all>
Thanks for all your help.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
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I've woken this morning and found my little Emperor Cardinal dead under a rock. 9/28/08 Hi Everyone , I'm calling from England UK , and am desperately needing to find out why my little Emperor <aka Banggai> suddenly died suddenly overnight. I have a 100 litre marine aquarium <A small volume...> which is currently stocked with 2 clown fish, <Their territory> 1 large Emperor cardinal , (the little Emperor who has now perished) , 1 fire shrimp , 6 red legged hermit crabs , 6 blue legged hermit crabs , and 1 coral introduced 1 week ago. <Mmm, what species?> The aquarium is stocked well with live rock , and I have stringently followed all recommendations since starting my hobby some 3 months ago. All the other fish appear well - and this little guy was actually the more active of the two - and he also appeared to feed better too. We couldn't find him this morning - and it took ages to locate him - he didn't appear to be previously unwell - and he and the others don't seem to look any different at all. Nothing appears untoward and they were both purchased from a reputable stockist which quarantines prior to sale and were sharing the same tank at the store. We found him wedged under a rock and I can't understand how he could have got himself there. I conduct weekly 10% water-changes , and add 'Gamma NutraPlus' reef feed 3mls daily as recommended. The fish are fed a varied diet of flake and frozen feed and I have had no other concerns until this morning. He was such a character - and I can't believe he just died like that with no apparent cause - as I say - he looks just as he did when I bought him. The water is tested weekly and has been excellent at last test 7 days ago: salt 1.022; <Too low, esp. for the "coral"> PH 8.17 ; phosphate 0.14 ; KH 11; calcium 480. <Mmm, a bit high> I only started using the reef feed 1 week ago - could this be linked??? <Doubtful> Thank you for your time Grainne .Birmingham. UK <Likely just "stress" from being in such a little world, with agonistic fishes (the Clowns) it couldn't get away from... This is a social species... that lives in small shoals... of spaces about the size of your couch... I would not add any more fish here. Bob Fenner>
Sick Bengais 11/24/07 I hope you can help me with this question. I have looked at all the articles on WWM and have not been able to find a specific answer. I have a 6 x 1.5 x 1.5 foot tank that has been running uneventfully for 4 months after a 5 month quarantine (following a wipe out due to "ick"). I purchased four Bengaii <... these are called Banggai... after the Indo. island group where they were discovered.> cardinals about 3 weeks ago. They were eating well at the store, and were there for about 2 weeks...although wild caught (all are in Australia at present) I felt they were a good risk. For the first 2 weeks they did great. Two paired up and were courting, but then one of those became lethargic, increased respiratory effort and stringy white feces. It also had reddening to the skin below the dorsal and both pectoral fins. <Good observations, description... bad signs> All other fish (Kole tang, percula clown and a blue damsel) are fine, as are 2 bubble-tip anemones, crabs and shrimp. I first tried a 60% water change, but to no avail. Then I treated the Bengaii with antibiotics <Of no use here> (after it had been sick for 2 days) but it died that day, and I noticed that another one had reddening to the fins. I isolated this one and treated it with antibiotics, but it also died in 2 days (eating until the last day). The other 2 have been fine for the last week or so but today the larger one has stringy white feces and some fin reddening. I asked about the second fish on your chat room, but no-one had any specific treatment advise <advice> other than it was probably not water quality. I read on WWM about the fellow in New Zealand who lost 100 (!) with similar symptoms, and from my reading I also did a necropsy on the second fish. The intestines were dark red...but maybe they are anyway? I am resigned to losing another one, but is there any suggestion as to how to deal with the last survivor? All the other residents of the tank are also fine. Thanks in anticipation, Tony <If it were me/mine, I'd treat successively for protozoans and worms... (with Metronidazole and Prazi-)... all covered (including treatment moda and importantly, cautionary statements) on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Injured Banggai Cardinal - 06/27/07 Dear WWM Crew, <Hello> I bought two nice Banggai Cardinals a few days ago. <Nice fish.> After drip acclimating for 2 Â½ hours I put the Cardinals in my tank. <No QT?> I noticed the next day that one of the Cardinals had an injured fin. I didn't notice it at the LFS or in the bag during transport so I don't know where it came from. <From my QT soapbox I would say that if you had it in a QT tank you would know.> His right fin is slightly red and fleshy at the point it meets his body. His fin is not clamped against his body. <Good sign.> It is out at his side, but I have not seen him use it to swim, he's using his other fin exclusively. He's eating well, appears normal in all other regards, and seems to be getting around quite well... <Good> I'm planning on feeding him good frozen foods and watching his progress. <Hope he excepts these, they can be picky eaters.> I've had a few friends suggest MelaFix. <Junk, Tea Tree oil.> Is this safe with inverts? <Probably in low doses, but worthless.> Any other ideas? Thanks a million. <It may just be a shipping injury, for the moment I would just monitor closely, make sure nothing is picking on it and it continues to eat well. Be ready to separate and treat with an antibiotic if symptoms worsen.> Tank specs: 30 Gallons / 35 lbs live rock, pH 8.4, temp 78-83. Tank mates include: 1 Firefish, 2 Fire Shrimp, 1 Sun Coral, Featherdusters, snails and hermits. <Sounds nice.> <Chris> Re: Injured Banggai Cardinal 6/27/07 Thanks for the response. A quick update for you. <Shoot> I have no QT tank at the moment unfortunately or he'd surely be in there. Bummer I know. <Definitely limits your options.> His right fin is basically gone. He still has the outlining edges of the fin, but the inside part of the fin is gone. What's left of the fin is still not clamped to his side though. He's using the other fin to swim and stay stable. He's mostly staying in one spot of the tank, but will swim to get food. He eats the Vitamin Enriched Brine Shrimp and Mysis Shrimp I've been feeding him so far. <Ditch the brine, the Mysid is much better, try adding a vitamin supplement to it such as Selcon.> I have to shoot it at him so he thinks it's alive otherwise he watches it float by. <A common problem with this species.> Any other food that might help? <Try some New Life Spectrum pellets, these are often accepted by even very finicky eaters.> I do not have another tank that I could put him in if his conditions worsen. I am not sure what I would do! I will not bother with Melafix since you said it's worthless. I have heard that water changes may help give him some of the trace elements he needs to repair his wounds. <Improved water quality is always helpful, but the replacement of trace elements is really not a concern here. But keep up those water changes.> I just want to help him in anyway I can. Any other additional advice??? Thanks Chris. <Without the ability to separate him and give him some quiet to heal in best you can do is keep up the feeding and water quality as you are doing. Try to get some Selcon to boost the food.> <Chris>
Banggai Cardinal lip growth 5/7/07 Hello folks, I have 130gal FO tank a variety of compatible fish and most all seem to be happy and healthy. I have wet/dry filtration and skimmer and water quality is good. <Not useful... need real data> One of my Banggai Cardinals has a couple of strange looking growths on its lower lip. <Likely "lymphocystis"... a semi-strange environmental/nutritional/viral condition...> They look like warts and are similar in color to the fish. They do not look like anything I have been able to find on any site about fish diseases. The fish seems to be fine, it eats well, hangs out with Banggai #2 and chances the Banggai #3 off into hiding. None of the other 20 or so fish have any sign of any such growth. Any ideas? Thanks, David Austin <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lymphfaqs.htm and the linked FAQs files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Banggai Cardinal lip growth -- 05/07/07 Bob and Crew, Thanks very much for the response and the great job you are doing. It is hard to imagine how you have the time and patience to deal with all of us. I think your suggestion of Lymphocystis is correct based on the articles and photos you referred me to. I tried removing the growths from the fish with no luck. So if he is not too traumatized by that effort perhaps the disease will run it's course and he will be okay. Meanwhile, it is back to working on water quality and good nutrition. Thanks again, David Austin <Thank you for your kind words. If there is room (and likely no predator problems) I do encourage you to add a purposeful cleaner organism as well... Perhaps a Lysmata species... will help clean off... and greatly reduce the element of stress... very important here. Bob Fenner>
Banggai Cardinal Mortality 7/04 Hi Bob. I was wondering if you could help me out. <Hi Alois, Adam here and glad to help.> I am a importer of marine fish in new Zealand. I have been importing Banggai cardinals over the last 2 months. So far out of 100 they have all died. <This has been a sad but common experience here in the states too.> They do well for 2 weeks, eating very well then they breath heavy and have white faeces, then they die. Any ides? Regards, Alois <Some folks have necropsied Banggais that died soon after import and found large numbers of internal parasites. If you have the equipment and someone with the ability, I would strongly suggest doing the same. Unfortunately, I can't find any of the sources that discussed this, but I do believe that it was discussed at www.reefcentral.com. Whoever did the necropsy seemed certain of at least the major group that the parasite was is, so treatment may be possible. In the mean time, do consider breeding these guys! They eat Selco supplemented baby brine from day one and are marketable in about 8-12 weeks. You should be able to easily satisfy the New Zealand market. Best Regards, Adam>
Banged-Up Banggai! Guys, <Scott F. your guy tonight> I know you are currently understaffed, so I'll make it quick. My Banggai cardinal -the only fish in a 72G with 6 misc. Lysmata shrimp and 2 Hermit Crabs, seems to have scratched himself last night during a routine water change. Now there is a pin-head sized fuzzy growth on his left eye. I was afraid this was going to happen some time, with the way he'd dart around wildly whenever my hands enter the tank. I'm currently feeding him Mysis or daphnia or minced cocktail shrimp soaked in either Selcon or Vita-Chem. <Nice supplementation...!> I want him to OD on food and let his own immune system handle this, because the stress of capture and quarantine may make matters worse. Beside, the QT has an ocellaris clown which has 3 weeks of QT left! My nitrates don't even register on test kits and the tank has been set up for 8 months now with an Eheim wet/dry and a Prizm skimmer and as of last night a Remora which is yet to produce anything but noise... <Give it time!> Thank you!!! Narayan <Well, Narayan, I think that you're doing the right thing here. Just maintain the most pristine water conditions possible, and keep a close eye on this fish to make sure that the condition doesn't worsen. If you don't want to subject the fish to a quarantine system, you could net him and give him a dip in tank water with some Methylene blue, which has strong anti-bacterial properties. In the end, though- you be the judge. Hopefully, with your continued dedicated care and tank maintenance, the fish will make a full recovery with little additional intervention on your part. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F>
Banggai Cardinal Hi Mr. Fenner <Hello Doris, MacL here with you this fine and lovely night> I have a 46 gallon fish only saltwater tank with a watchman goby and one yellow clown goby. Today I bought 3 Banggai cardinal fish. The biggest one of them has spots on his side fins which resemble ich. <Youch, did you see that before you bought them?> My question is this: Is it possible to help a fish over a mild ich infestation with the addition of vitamins introduced into the tank and vitamin enriched food? <If its a mild infestation and the tank is optimal and you include some cleaners like cleaner shrimp you can sometimes and let me emphasis sometimes stop it that way> I have a small saltwater tank with 2 tomatoes clowns and a lawnmower blenny also. When the clown fish started showing signs of cauliflower disease I introduced vitamins, minerals and vitamin enriched food to them. Their small lesions are almost gone. <Lymphocystis is often characterized by poor nutrition or bad tank conditions, and your good tank conditions took care of that> I have kept fish for quite a while and really do not want to introduce chemicals into tanks right away. <Very understandable.> What would you do? <I keep cleaner shrimp in my quarantine tanks actually> P.S. I acquired a long slender blue goby today. He is about 2 inches, slender eel like, and has some black on his tail. He is complete sky blue. Is this indeed a goby that has been sold to me? Do you know anything about this fish? <Bar goby maybe?> Thank you very much for your time Mr. Fenner. It's great to be able to talk "fish" with someone who really knows. <Good luck!> D.B.
An Assortment of Issues (5/1/04) Hi Steve <Hello again.> I emailed you a little earlier, but I have another question. This is about my Banggai cardinal fish. As you know, I have a fish in QT with Popeye. I am medicating him. It is hard to tell if my cardinal fish has Popeye or not, since his eyes normally seem to bulge out. <Yes, they have big eyes.> The odd thing is that he has not been eating well. He does not seem to be able to find the food when I put it in. I just tried feeding him some live worms by hand, and he ate! As the uneaten worms fall, he does not follow them. However, if he feels them touching the sides of his body, he will whisk around and eat them. This is the first time I have seen him eat. My question is, does Popeye affect the fish's eyesight? <Not sure.> Can he see? <Worrisome for blindness. I can't remember--did you put any medication in your main tank?> Should I also put him into QT? And with my clownfish. <If he does not act normal soon, you may have to.> I only have one other fish left in my display tank, a Dottyback, who seems to be fine (at least for now). Also, if this is bacterial, I am not sure how they got it. It must be my water. <Most bacterial infections in aquariums are opportunistic pathogens that strike when something else does the initial damage.> I have QT all new fish, <good> and have had these in my tank for approximately 8-10 months. I do have well water. Who knows what bacteria thrive in it. <I trust you treat it somehow.> I am sure it changes with weather conditions. After reading your website, I also retrieved information about the Kold Ster-il System, by Poly-Bio-Marine. <A very popular and effective unit.> It is a little more expensive, but it is less wasteful, and since I have a well, I thought it might be better, especially when drought season comes along, and we have to be careful with water usage. <Agreed. I should have bought one too, rather than using RO here in drought-stricken Utah.> PS. I am also curious, you said that DI water is better, than why is Bob Fenner (I have his book) so high on RO water. I don't get it. If DI is better, and waste less, why does anyone prefer RO. <Where water is abundant, RO is cheaper than DI. For many, it is a good choice.> I must be missing something! <Check the copyright. The book is six years old. Many things change. That's why he created WWM. It's very hard to keep a book current. Being in medicine myself, I am acutely aware of this. That's why the web is so wonderful.>
Cyanided cardinal??? Bob, A quick question for you, and a bit of a mystery to me. One week ago today, I purchased 4 Banggai Cardinals. Unfortunately, they have not fared as well as my other livestock, and from their behavior/mortality rate, I was wondering if you feel there may be a possibility they were collected via cyanide techniques, and if so, if there is a way of saving the remaining specimen(s). Within 12 hours of placement, 1 perished. A couple of days ago, a second one died mysteriously, and now a third is laying on the bottom, leaning against a rock and "gasping" (rapid/exaggerated mouth and gill movement). All four specimens have been extremely lethargic during the time I've had them... even at night. So much so that when showing the new acquisition to a family member they thought there were plastic fish hanging in the tank. All other livestock is doing well (fishwise: 3 damsels, 2 yellow tangs, 1 scooter blenny, 1 clown, 1 pink Pseudochromis) in a 90 Gallon reef. All invertebrates/corals are fine as well. All tank measurements/parameters are fine. I'm figuring the "gasper" is probably beyond being saved and will die within the next few hours. Is there anything I can do for him, or the only remaining "healthy" specimen? <Unusual... I agree... considering the size of your system, the other livestock... that they don't seem to be acting strangely... I think there may well be "something" wrong with these cardinalfishes... in their transport, acclimation... But not cyanided... almost all are captive produced... and the ones in the wild are not hard to hand collect... no need for poisons in their capture> In the 5 months the tank has been set up, outside of the "starters" I've only lost 1 other fish, and I hate it when it happens. My wife ends up naming all of the fish, and cries when they die. Any thoughts to saving the remaining cardinal? Could these have been collected via cyanide (suspicious after reading section in TCMA)? <Again, not at all likely... have you talked with your supplier? Others who bought fish from this "batch"?> Thanks again for your help... past/present/future. <You are welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> Matt
Banggai cardinal Dear Mr. Fenner, I'm still in a state of total flabbergast! About a month ago I had a nice Banggai cardinal (Big Daddy) that took a gulp of food, did three seconds of somersaults and died!!!! I could think of no other reason except my home made food (your recipe), which was a long shot. I threw the rest of that batch out and started over. I reported this on a web forum and nobody had a clue. Well, this morning about 30 seconds after I fed (Brine shrimp plus and pellets), another Banggai did the same thing. Only this time it recovered after a few minutes and seems fine now. WHAT'S GOING ON? Thanks, Linda <Bizarre! Maybe they're choking? Perhaps your tank has some other "eager eaters" that are conditioning your Banggai Cardinals to gulp their rations? Try smaller food items... less competitive tankmates? Bob Fenner>
Banggai cardinals death Dear Mr. Fenner, I wrote to you last week concerning my Banggais that would take a bite of food, then apparently choke and spiral out of control to the bottom of the tank. Here's my experience that I'd like to share with you. When this occurred the first time a couple of months ago, it really looked like the fish choked. It took a bite of food and spiraled out of control and died. The second time (that I wrote you about), it happened shortly after feeding and I assumed the same thing happened. Three days later I find a dead cardinal in the tank--not the one that had previously "choked". My husband and I had decided to buy another cardinal since they look so pretty as a pair. But this morning when I got up, I checked the hospital tank first, then turned around in time to see the remaining cardinal spiraling to the bottom. I tried to revive him without success. I had not fed any of the tanks yet. Since I had planned to try raising these fish, I have a few web pages bookmarked. A couple of articles on breeding mention this phenomenon occurring in the fry, particularly after feeding. If the fish is squirted with the turkey baster it will (usually) recover. If left alone it will die. I have lost four adult Banggai cardinals in the past 3 months; one because it was "odd man out" and I didn't remove it soon enough, and three from terminal seizures. These fish have come from different sources, 2 locally, and 2 internet (Aquacon). If others are having this experience, it might be a problem to address. In the meantime, no more Banggais for us, even though they are really cool fish. Sincerely, Linda Kuehn <Interesting, and still frightening... I wonder if a lack of dissolved oxygen could be at play here... since you mention the revival with a turkey baster... Do you have sufficient aeration, circulation in this system. Anyone with a D.O. meter, test kit you could use? Bob Fenner>
Re: Banggai cardinals death Dear Mr. Fenner, Thank you for your quick reply. Oxygen saturation is something to consider. Using the turkey baster, I mostly prodded the fish rather than blew water onto it, however, even reviving it that way suggests it might not be getting enough O2. <Agreed> Here's my set up in this tank. It's a 40 gallon, 36 " long, 15 " tall. I have two Penguin bio-wheel filters, one at each end, and a protein skimmer (not great, but adequate). One medium size live rock and several not live, and lots of Caulerpa. (I grow it for my tangs in the big tank). Here's something I was wondering about. There are large bubbles on one of the rocks on the left hand side. I can knock the bubbles off, but more just form. Could this be an indication of lack of O2 due to poor circulation? <Yes, perhaps... the available low oxygen and possibly related higher carbon dioxide may be fostering enhanced photosynthesis...> Can you suggest a remedy? Thanks, Linda Kuehn <Yes, certainly. Do add a long airstone (with pump, tubing, check valve) along the inside edge of the tank... and/or powerheads with intake lines to blow air and water together... Mix your water up in all directions... practically speaking, there cannot be too much water circulation. Bob Fenner>
Missing Banggai Cardinalfish Hey there again, just trying to keep my queries separated. <Appreciate this> OK, new issue. My Banggai Cardinal simply vanished!! I've been looking all over the tank for him and he is gone. He stopped eating for a while but this was following what appeared to be a mating ritual with (what I thought was) his partner. The larger one, I think to be the male, is the one that is missing. Is this guy really missing, or just hiding out before he "belches" out a bunch of fry from his mouth? <Don't usually hide that much... Very likely either jumped out (any smiling cat cats about?), or died and was quickly consumed or decomposed...> I'm scared that he may be lost and can potentially foul the tank. How long should I wait to not see him before I panic? <No panic necessary, warranted. Look about the outside of the tank, amongst the decor/rock... keep an eye on your tests for ammonia...> And when I say panic, I'll take apart the reef in an attempt to find him if it means keeping the rest of the stock. In other strange disappearance news, my Scott's Wrasse that I told you about earlier has been acting strange. Is it possible that he is being bullied by my two tangs? (Kole and Indian Ocean Hippo) <Maybe> Every time that he goes to settle to hide out (if he is spooked) one of the tangs will rush to the area behind the rock and flush him out. <You likely need more "caves", nooks and crannies... some "blind" (with no opening in their back> I like it because it keeps him into he open. But now, after he's been in the tank for about a week, he is GONE about 3 hours before the lights turn off. Also, Recently I caught him belching out brown material, he looked not so good. . . Like the Cardinal, we have searched everywhere and cannot find him every three hours before the lights go off. . . What gives? <Hiding... probably in the substrate/gravel... to avoid the Tangs, possibly you... No worries though... will learn to come out in time> For your reference our light cycle is as follows: ON --> Actinic 2:30 PM Daylight 3:30 PM Off --> Daylight 11:30 Actinic 12:30 AM Thanks so much, Separate query on the way! <Can't wait. Bob Fenner>
Acclimating and Preventive Dip Procedures I have your book, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, and am enjoying all the valuable information it has to offer. I'm expecting a shipment of a school (5) of Banggai Cardinalfish next Tuesday. I have a 20 gallon quarantine tank set up and understand the process of acclimation. I was also considering doing a preventive dip for the fish. I'm confused in wondering if I acclimate the fish first and then do a preventive dip wouldn't this undo the results of the acclimation process. Because I have a quarantine tank maybe I don't need to do the dip? The Cardinalfish will be the first fish placed in a 72 gallon tank with live substrate and 45 lbs. of liverock. Is it safe to place all five fish in at the same time? I appreciate your advise in these matters. Thanks. >> Thank you very much for contacting me re clarification on this matter. I'd do the dip first and then quarantine your Banggais for two weeks. And I would place them all at the same time. This Cardinalfish (family Apogonidae) can be territorial amongst its kind, and putting them in all at once will minimize chances for agonistic behavior. Bob Fenner
Banggai loss Bob, I had a Banggai Cardinalfish which only lasted for 5 days. I could not identify any source of trauma and the fish was eating up until the last day. The only changes I could identify was that my salinity dropped to 16. I only had one of these fish, and someone suggested that death could have been caused by stress due to the fact that it was not introduced in a school with others of its own kind. Any thoughts on this? If they do need to be in a school, how many fish constitute this? >> Hmmm, maybe this was an isolated circumstance... like an internal parasite... or...? Have been in the diving and ornamental aquatics interest a very long time (least it seems this way... check with me in a few years, maybe it will seem shorter then), and off to the north of Lombok in Indonesia even and seen Banggai's in the wild. They don't really live as adults in groupings... and have witnessed MANY folks keeping them in captivity solo... But they can be kept in a school, better to have just one larger male (you know the spots on the dorsal fin...), in a small, odd number of individuals (3,5,7). Bob Fenner
Banggai cardinals I have them in a quarantine tank the only other fish I have in the tank is a Sohal tang it eats all the time the tank has been set up for 3 months no live rock do you think I need to put them in my main tank I have live rock it is a FO tank thanks >> Yes, definitely. Cardinalfishes are already very shy. In a quarantine tank with a boisterous Sohal Tang they're likely very intimidated. Do move them. Bob Fenner Banggai Cardinals 28 Jan 2005 I'm having bad luck with Banggai cardinals. I have a 16 gal. reef tank that has been running for more than four years. It has a variety of SPS, LPS and softies. It is equipped with a rear protein skimmer and sump. I have a gold stripe maroon clown and a Firefish along with a Fromia starfish, scarlet shrimp, and clean up crew. Since owning the tank I have tried 3 different times to add a Banggai (not with the same fish I currently have), with the same unfortunate resulting death each time. After introducing them to the tank they have either eaten little or none at all for a couple of days (I have fed them frozen meaty foods). Just when I decide it's time to try feeding them something live they then start to breathe quickly for a couple of more days until eventually dieing. Prior to breathing quickly I have watched at least one of them eating copepods and the others seem to be looking for food in the water column. The most recent fish I purchased a few days ago I selected only after visiting the LFS several times over a 6 week period and each time when the salesperson fed the cardinals they acted uninterested in any food given to them. <I can frankly tell you that a healthy Banggai will chow down on food and jump at both live brine and frozen Mysis.> They have usually been there a week or more before I ask them to try. The last one I bought did eat but not real aggressively. <I've also seen that they need to have frequent feedings, several times a day; at least as they are becoming established. I asked the store if they were tank raised and was told that unless the sign indicated they were tank raised they are not. <Lots of Banggais are still being imported.> But I thought wild Banggai populations were declining and therefore were not allowed to be harvested anymore. <I have heard this as well but I know for a fact that they are still being imported. Perhaps the areas they are coming from have changed a bit?> I really like this fish and would like to have one but I am reluctant to try again. Is my experience very common? I am frustrated because I have read several sites stating that they are a hardy fish but I read in your description of this fish that the success rate "is dismal". Do you have any suggestions I should try in the future or should I look elsewhere? <In my experience, they often do not ship very well and that's the problem that they are having when settling into the store. They do need to be pretty much babied when they arrive and fed quite often a day to get them settled and doing well. I really think you need to only purchase a fish that is going aggressively for the food, and if they are not do NOT purchase it. A fish that doesn't eat for a week is starving to death. One thing that concerns me with your current fish is that I believe if you do find a healthy Banggai that you are going to have a problem with the clownfish out competing the other fish for foods. Good luck, MacL>
Injured Banggai Died in Quarantine, Now What? >Hi, >>Good morning Kim, Marina here. >I bought two Banggai Cardinal fish last week, and the LFS injured one of the fishes' front dorsal fin when netting. >>Poor, they should have held the fish for you. >I placed both of them in my 12g QT. The fish seemed okay, but then on Saturday I noticed that its tail fin was rotting off. >>Mmm.. moved that quickly? >I started treating the QT with Maracyn (sp)... >>Correct. >...on Saturday (removing the activated carbon filters). >>Good, I would have done the same, though probably would have chosen a different antibiotic, but this is quibbling. >The parameters in the tank on Saturday were: pH=8.2, temp 78F, 1.025 sg, ammonia=0, nitrite=0, nitrate=2.5. >>Oooo, high nitrate, very high. Water changes are quite necessary in quarantine, copious, large, to keep such levels down. This can and will depress immune systems, adds further stress. >The fish died last night (Sunday). My question is should I continue to treat the tank even if the other fish looks okay (had no injuries during transfer)? >>If the other is apparently clear, I would discontinue, perform some large water changes, add carbon (and change out after about 24 hours). >Also, I will get another Banggai. Should I wait until this one is done in the QT and transferred to the display or can I add it to the QT after this treatment and partial water change? >>Knowing that Banggais can be somewhat aggressive with each other, and IF the next one is from the same batch, I would probably place it in the quarantine with the surviving fish. I would prefer to establish them in the display together. Be sure to have plenty of chunks of PVC for hiding places, and do watch carefully for the aforementioned aggression. >Thanks so much for your wonderful site. Kim >>Most welcome, and give 'em hell for selling fish THEY injured (if it were my shop you'd get a credit on that one). Marina Banggai Problems 11/12/2005 Bob What is the problem with Banggai cardinals? <Mostly handling...> They seem to do well for the first week but very suddenly they all die! Perry <Too much "stress" from the process of breeding, rearing, moving... mostly. BobF>
Banggai Cardinal & Coral Beauty angel questions 12/17/05 First let me tell you that I have a 60 gal tank w/a protein skimmer, wet/dry filter, a UV sterilizer; and 32 lbs of live rock. In the tank now are a bicolor blenny, two Banggai cardinals and a coral beauty angel. I took a water sample to a very reputable fish store a week ago, and everything tested great. <Non-informational> Now, about my Banggai cardinals. I feel pretty stupid asking this, but here goes. I purchased two Banggai cardinals a week ago. They have been doing great. They hid and hardly came out for about 3 days (I didn't even see them eat). But then they started to come out a little more each day, and now they are out almost all the time and eating well. Here's my question. I noticed tonight that there a white spots on their fins. I didn't notice these spots before, but then, I didn't really look. The problem is, these fish have spots all over them. Do they normally have spots on their fins, or could this be ich? <Do have spots as coloration... Crypt looks different... smaller, more discrete, raised> My next question is about my coral beauty angel. I have had this fish since June of this year and it has done great. Two weeks ago I got rid of my Picasso trigger because I kept hearing that it would limit me on any more fish purchases and would eventually cause a problem with the fish I currently had. In order to catch the trigger, I had to rearrange all of the live rock. After the trigger had been gone about 3 or 4 days, my coral beauty started hiding more (I did create more hiding spots when I rearranged the rock), and stopped eating. It stays near the bottom all of the time (it is swimming upright, not on it's side). I feed Spirulina, frozen brine shrimp, Prime Reef flakes and green marine algae. At the recommendation of the fish store, for the past two days I have fed the fish a frozen angel and butterfly diet. Last night I saw the coral beauty take one bite of it. When I fed the fish today, the coral beauty started moving around more, but I never saw it eat. I know that it could be getting food that goes down into it's hiding places and I not see it eating. There are no spots on the fish, no torn fins, and it's not looking thin. The only thing I really notice is that the color on its head seems to be fading some. <The behavior of this fish sounds about "normal", some loss of color can occur...> Otherwise, it looks okay. Do you think the hiding and not eating is because of the change in the fish and moving the rocks around? <Likely this has had an effect, yes> Any suggestions? Once again, thanks so much for your help. LaVonda Black <You are quarantining new livestock before adding I hope/trust. Do take a look on WWM re Banggai Cardinal appearance, Centropyge behavior. Bob Fenner> Banggai Cardinal - 03/09/2006 We have 2 Banggai Cardinals. The very tip of their front dorsal fins (approx.1/16")has turned white and appears to just wave around with movement. They have been this way for about 3-4 weeks and the white area seems to be getting larger, but very very slowly. Any idea what it is and what we should do about it? Bob & Jinni Horn Tank info: Tank size in Gallons?:...75................ Age of tank :..6 months................. Total amount of liverock aprox..60 lbs............. Substrate 3" of live sand............. Temp.....78 degrees Sump 12 gallon............ Prefilter Yes.............. Wooden hood over the light........... Aprox amount of evaporation per day:.1 gallon............ Frequency of water changes &amount changed: 5 gallons Bi weekly Salt mix:.."Red Sea.".......... Additives used:. Kent Marine Concentrated Iodine, Reef Success Coral Grow............... test kit:. Saltwater Master Liquid Test Kit................. adding calcium:. Manual as needed................ Aprox water turnover X times (filter) per hour:....7............ Lighting:. HO Fluorescent........... Bulbs:..2 white 2 blue............... Total watts of lighting (all lamps):...440............ Timers ...Yes......on 12 hours per day Water:.. RO/DI............. Protein skimmer .Venturi.......... Tank parameters......... -Calcium...................320 mg/L -Magnesium.........Unknown -Alkalinity........................12 dKH -Ammonia..........................0 mg/L -Nitrites..............................0 mg/L -Nitrates.............................0 mg/L -Phosphates..................... .5 PPM -Specific Gravity.............1.023 -Water Temp..........................78f Water Flow > 7 times tank volume per hour <I suspect there is nothing awry with your cardinals here... "just" normal color/growth. Your set-up and water quality looks to be acceptable to fine. Bob Fenner> Livestock/Marine/Pterapogon kauderni 2/23/06 Hi, <Hello Chelsea.> I work at a pet store, and we have had a lot of trouble keeping Pterapogon kaudern's alive to the point that we don't even get them anymore. <Unusual.> These happen to be one of my favorite saltwater fish! I would really like to get a school of them, but I'm really worried they're all going to die. Can you give me some specifics on keeping them. Things like, what size tank do they need? I want to keep enough to see them school, what is the smallest amount I could keep to be able to see them school? What can I do specifically to keep them alive? Are there any tricks to it? Specific ways to decorate the tank so that they are more hardy. And any other useful tips. <Read here and the related FAQ link in the title box. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cardinal.htm This should give you all the info you need. Unusual that you are having trouble keeping these as they are a hardy fish. Thanks! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Chelsea Tank-raised Banggai Cardinals 03-21-06 Good Day Crew, <<Hello, Travis here with you today.>> I've been a great admirer of Banggai cardinals since they first started appearing in the market some years back. At that time they were rare and very expensive. After doing some research, I've found that they are on the brink of being added as an endangered species in the wild. <<This is correct.>> <Actually... not so... more abundant and transplanted than ever... RMF> At the same time their price has continued to drop, currently $11.99 at one LFS. Is the price drop just because of a greater number of wild caught specimens on the market, or are tank-bred specimens starting to make an impact? <<I have not witnessed a price drop in my area, but it is most likely due to wild Banggai not lasting more than a week in captivity. This is due to a nasty strain of internal parasites that have not been responding well to typical medications.>> I would love to add a pair, but I don't want to contribute to a dwindling wild population. What's your opinion? <<Captive bred Banggai may cost more initially, but you will be much happier with your purchase in the long run. Travis>> Thanks much!
Question on Banggai Cardinalfish - 04/22/2006
Greetings! I have a Banggai Cardinalfish who recently has
stopped eating (at least while I'm watching the tank). I
purchased the Banggai several months ago, after several failures
with them -- previous Banggais did not feed very well, then stopped
feeding, then started breathing heavily, and then died. The
current Banggai, though, has been doing great for months. Eats
regularly, remains active, and has grown quite large. But
this past week, he's stopped eating, and now his breathing appears
heavy -- behavior I'm familiar with, unfortunately.
<Disturbing...> The tank is a 30-gallon reef tank; the readings
on temperature, salinity, and so forth are all in the normal
range. The Banggai shares the tank with a yellowtail damsel,
two firefish gobies, and a blenny, as well as a few invertebrates
(shrimps, crabs, snails). There doesn't seem to be
excessive competition among the fish -- I'm feeding them brine
shrimp (not live) <Mmm, hopefully not exclusively> , and up until
early last week the Banggai as well as the others have liked the food
and have seemingly been able to get enough of it. But now,
the shrimp float up in front of the Banggai, and he ignores it
completely. Not good. I've been reading readers
questions on the FAQ page about Banggai Cardinalfish, and it seems that
most of the problems that develop do so shortly after purchase -- not
several months down the road. Is my Banggai just old, or is
this normal, or ... what? <Don't know here... perhaps a crowding
component... definitely nutritional deficiency possibility...> I
think they're one of the most beautiful fish I've ever seen,
and I would love to continue to have one (or two, or three) in my tank
-- but not if something I'm doing or not doing is killing
them. Any thoughts? <A comment... am out at the Western
Marine Conference and some of the speakers and attendees have mentioned
the lesser hardiness of this aquarium species in recent years... Given
the size of your system, the presence of the damsel... I would hold off
on keeping Banggais here... and a last note... I would only feed
frozen/defrosted Artemia occasionally... perhaps every few days. Bob
Fenner> --Eric Scott Banggai Cardinal Deaths...Very New System -
07/27/06 Hi there! <<Hello!>> I have a 72G reef ready
Oceanic tank being filtered by 110 pounds of cured live rock and a 20G
refugium w/protein skimmer. I only run the skimmer for about
a week in six. <<Mmm...am a firm believer in running skimmers
24/7>> I perform a 15% water change every 10
days. Water parameters are all spot on. Ammonia
& nitrite at zero. Nitrate never above 25ppm.
<<This is a reef tank? Nitrate should be below
5ppm. If this is a FOWLR/FO you should still strive to keep
nitrates below 20ppm>> The tank was started on May 6th of this
year, as defined by the placing of the rock in the tank. <<Ah, a
very "young" tank indeed>> To date, livestock consists
of 5 Blue/Green Chromis, 1 Six Line Wrasse, 1 Blood Shrimp, 2 Turbo
Snails and about 12 Blue Legged Hermit Crabs. All of these
animals have been doing great since their introduction into the
tank. The problem occurred when 4 Banggai Cardinals were
added. They all started out great. Eating
enthusiastically and swimming vigorously. After two weeks
they started (one by one) losing their appetites, becoming lethargic,
demonstrating labored breathing (some had stringy white feces) and
dying. Per fish this process took about 3 days from loss of
appetite to death. <<Possibly environmental, compounded with
stress from conspecific aggression>> All of the other fish are
still doing fine. Can any one tell me what is happening.
<<Banggai Cardinals are generally hardy once acclimated to a
"mature" system. They also can be quite intolerant
of conspecifics unless in mated pairs. The problem you
describe may be a combination of a "too new" system (for this
species) and aggression related stress>> I have a Purple Firefish
in the quarantine tank and I'm afraid to put it in the main tank
until I have some clue. Any help or advice would be greatly
appreciated as I'm new at this. I would give this system a couple
more months to mature/reach a balance before adding more cardinals...or
the firefish for that matter. Letting your skimmer run
continuously will also be of great benefit, in my opinion>>
Thanks!! Jan Harrison <<Happy to
assist. EricR>> Re: Banggai Cardinal Deaths...Very
New System - 07/27/06 Dear Eric, <<Hello Jan>> Thanks
for the response. <<Is my pleasure>> I'll certainly
utilize your advice. <<Ah good, for the best overall