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Butterflyfish compatibility question
8/16/17
butterfly fish compatibility
5/16/15 Butterfly Fishes In A Five Foot Tank – 02/14/13 Compatibility of a saddleback
butterfly with a millet butterfly - 3/10/12 Butterfly Fish/Compatibility/Systems
2/14/12 Adding a Butterflyfish... to a reef aq.
3/9/11 Butterfly-Safe Corals? 9/15/10 Corals And Butterflies???/Butterflyfish Compatibility
8/11/10 Australian CB in hiding, BF comp. -
8/1/10 Golden Butterfly dominance. 2/8/10 Hemitaurichthys polylepis (Pyramid Butterflyfish) More than one Butterfly in 210 gallons
8/8/09 Copperband and Longnose Butterfly Compatibility --
07/22/09 Butterfly And Angel That Will Not Eat Coral?
7/21/09 Pakistan Butterflyfish (Chaetodon collare)
4/21/09 Mixing Butterfly with coral, comp. 2/3/09 Hi guys. I have been doing lots of research as to what butterfly fish can go with which coral. I have read both the Scott Michael book, the Bob Fenner book, and used various resources on the web, as well as my LFS. While both books are very informative, the specific information as to what each fish would eat is somewhat sketchy. <Mmm, actually... not so... There are some "almost strictly" planktivorous species... that are identified... in these works, even just on WWM...> There does appear to be an irony, in that it seems that the more colorful a fish is the more difficult it is to care for, or the more likely it will eat corals! <Tis so> So the specific fish I am interested in would be one or two of the following in order of preference: Chaetodon melannotus, <Not such a good choice> C semilarvatus, C. falcula. auriga, C. punctatofasciatus, <These are... along with Forcipigers, Heniochus, Coradions, Hemitaurichthys species, Some other Chaetodons...> C miliaris (but I don't like that in captivity the miliaris can lose its color). I am trying to get an idea of which coral would be most likely to succumb to their appetites, and it is not easy. <SPS mainly...> I currently have a 125 gallon tank with 200 pounds of live rock, an ASM protein skimmer, 50 gallon sump, and two 96W dual lamps, (along with two metal halide (don't know wattage) which I do not currently use). Fish are four blue green Chromis, one bicolor angel (doing very well, and eating like mad at every feeding), and one coral beauty angel. It might interest you to know the two angels get along fabulously, with the bicolor being the leader, and the c. beauty being his shadow. <And there's sufficient room for both> I also have one cleaner shrimp, ten blue leg hermits, and twenty assorted snails. Water quality has been excellent, with my biggest "problem" being nitrates of 20ppm. <Mmm, a DSB in the sump likely... RDP with macro algal culture> I am not interested in having a full blown reef tank but I would like to have a few corals. So my question is: are there any corals that could survive in a set up like this? <Mmm, very likely yes> I like the polyps most, but anything that could make it would be worth trying. <I'd try them> Thanks for your great informative site! Bruce <Happy to share. Bob Fenner> Butterflyfish Compatibility, sel. 12/30/08 Dear Bob, <Rusty> I plan on having a 180 gallon tank with a Saddle butterfly, a semilarvatus butterfly, a Heniochus Bannerfish, a collare butterfly, and a Copperband butterfly that I plan to keep with a clean up crew. Would these fish be safe to keep with a Linckia starfish, a tuxedo urchin, cleaner shrimps, Nassarius snails, hermit crabs, and turbo snails? Would these fish be OK to keep in a 180g tank with a 55 gal sump with loads of Chaetomorpha algae? <Mmm... if it were, my system, I'd do a bit of rethinking re this mix of Butterflyfishes... a single Ephippium/Saddleback is fine, as are Chelmons... but the Gold mask really need to be in pairs/twos to be happy and the Heniochus and Collares are really only happy in a group... 3, 5... So, I'd eliminate some, add others... to the numbers here. They'll all get along with the invertebrates you list... though I think Linckia Seastars are poor bets in almost all captive settings. The size of the tank is fine for what you list. Bob Fenner> Auriga Butterfly Compatibility 5/10/08 I just recently put a 60g tank up. Right now the only thing in there are 5 hermit crabs, 1 emerald crab, a little blue green Chromis (mostly to help with cycling the tank), I just put two of my inverts from a previous tank in after the 60g had been cycled for a month, they are a long spin urchin and a chocolate ship star. They both seem to be doing well. My plan is to place one more invert (from yet another established tank) in, and that is a bubble tip anemone, with a maroon clown. Can I place an auriga in if the bubble tip has a maroon to defend it? I know I would have to place the maroon in last due to territorial issues, so I would place the anemone in last as well. Also I would like to add one more fish to the mix at some point and that would be a volitans. Will they butterfly, volitans and auriga play nice? <Just like humans, fish are individuals. However, as a general rule, these should get along. Make sure the Butterfly is eating well before purchasing it.> Could a small volitans fit a medium sized maroon in its mouth? <yes> Also given the nature of the maroons disposition, would the volitans even try to eat it? <not likely if kept well fed> I have about 50 lbs of live rock in the tank with a lot of places to hide. I am running a very powerful canister filter which currently only had light carbon and light chemical filtration due to the lack of bio load currently in the lank, as well as a skimmer. I also have a quarantine tank that all my new animals go into, to minimize new disease to the tank. I just am concerned with those three fish being good, not only to themselves but to the inverts as well. Thanks for your help you all have been very helpful. <You are more than welcome Spencer> <<Thanks Curt -Sara M.>> Butterflyfish as Buddies? (Compatibility) 4/24/08 I can't tell you how much I appreciate this site and you, the people who devote their time to it. Truly, I can't even begin to count the hours I've spent reading the content here. It's a remarkable site and a fantastic boon to those of us new to this great hobby. Kudos upon kudos to all of you! <On behalf of my fellow Crew members, thank you for your kind comments. I've been proud to have been affiliated with WWM for almost 6 years now. I cannot believe how much the site has grown and improved. We've got some amazing people here, all under the wonderful influence of Bob.> <<Which spelled backwards is boB... Heee! RMF>> I've searched WWM as well as the rest of the net for an answer to a specific fish compatibility question but have had no luck in finding a suitably specific answer to my question and so I send this email to a source I consider infinitely knowledgeable. <I don't know about the "infinitely" part!><<I do... and not! RMF>> Are Heniochus diphreutes (Bannerfish) and Chelmon Rostratus (Copperband Butterfly) compatible in the same tank or are they too similarly shaped/striped not to display competitive tendencies? Thanks so much in advance, Nate <Good question, Nate. The Biggest concern that we normally have with husbandry of the Copperband is simply keeping the fish alive and happy! That being said, in my experience, the Copperband is generally not interactive with other Butterflyfish. However, it would not be unrealistic to expect some possible interaction in the confines of an aquarium. The Heniochus species are usually pretty good community fishes, in my experience, as long as they are given sufficient swimming area. I have kept the H. diphreutes with a C. punctatofasciatus in a 225 gallon system for years without issues. Granted, this is my experience and yours will differ, but I am pretty confident that, in a system with sufficient space, you could keep other species with the Heniochus. The key is to add both fishes as relatively small, young specimens, and to add them at the same time in an aquarium of sufficient size. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.> Cnid. compatibility with butterflies 3/30/08 Hi, I went through the FAQs and articles in the website. Not able to get a clear picture so asking you folks by email (Sorry for the trouble). Can I keep the following inverts with butterflies? 1. Leather coral 2. Mushrooms 3. Sea Fan 4. Palythoa 5. cucumber 6. Xenia 7. Anything else I can keep? <Sure, an ocean full> I do know that LPS will be totally out but what of SPS like Acropora? How many butterfly types can I mix in a 120 gal tank? <Depends on the species... two-three> Cheers Ranjith <And you! B> Butterfly Fish Systems/Compatibility 3/7/08 Hello, <Hi Sam> I have a standard 180 gallon aquarium, 72x24x24. I wanted to make this a butterfly isotope. I would like to keep one: Chaetodon auriga, Chaetodon collare, Chaetodon ephippium, Chaetodon falcula, Chaetodon fasciatus, Chaetodon rafflesi. I calculated 1 inch per 4 gallons. Am I overcrowding the aquarium? <With excellent filtration and use of a large sump, you could get away with six butterflies.> Do I have extra room for any other possible butterflies? <I would not add more.> Are all these butterflies relatively hardy? <The fasciatus (Raccoon) and auriga would be good choices, although most Raccoon Butterfly Fish imported are the lunula. The others can be moderately difficult to acclimate. The flavissimus (Long Nose) would be a better choice than some of the others you list.> In order, how would you add the butterflies into the aquarium? <I'd put the Raccoon in last.> Lastly, are all these butterflies compatible with each other? <Should be OK providing you have plenty of nooks and crannies for retreats and sleeping quarters. Do read here and linked files above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/poorchaetodons.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm Thank you and I love your website!! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Copperband And Ornate Butterfly Compatibility 8/15/07 I have 90g FOWLR tank that has been set up for almost a year. I've had the luxury of going slow with it, and only started adding fish in January, and have added about a fish per month since then. Right now the tank contains a Percula Clownfish, Cardinal Banggai, Golden Head Sifter Goby, Black Cap Basslet/Gramma, and a Copperband Butterfly (Chelmon Rostratus). I have an opportunity to get an Ornate Butterfly (Chaetodon ornatissimus). I have read that Butterflies generally should not be mixed, but can be if their shape, color and pattern are different. The shapes of these two butterflies are different, but while the patterns go a different direction, they are both fish with white and yellow stripes. Is there likely to be a problem with these two in a 90g tank? <Not really, the Ornate won't be around very long to cause trouble. This is an extremely difficult fish to acclimate and is best left in the wild.> The Ornate Butterfly is such a beautiful fish, I hate to pass it up, but there's obviously not much point if they are unlikely to be compatible in a 90g. <Do read here and related files above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/poorchaetodons.htm> Thanks for your input. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Elegance Not Stinging; Catalaphyllia vs. Butterfly fish - 4/17/07 First of all what a brilliant site. You are all so smart. Hope you can help me. <Thank you, will try> I purchased a Catalaphyllia from my LFS a while back now. As of late I purchased a saddled butterfly of medium size and asked the store clerk "will this peck at my Catalaphyllia?" He answered with "no the coral will sting the butterfly". So I thought I would try it out and placed the fish into my tank while I watched waiting for it to settle in. The next minute the litter bugger started pecking at my elegance. Did this coral not sting the butterfly? A healthy Catalaphyllia is meant to have quite a bite, but all he had done was suck himself in. He hasn't been his normal self since. The butterfly has been taken out as soon as I could say boo and is happily adapting in my spare tank. <Wow! Popular question tonight! Butterfly fish should not be kept with corals. They are known to eat corals and anemones that sting.> Also I am thinking about getting a bubble tip anemone for my clowns. Will this release its "chemicals" and affect the elegance? <It is more likely that the Catalaphyllia will sting and kill the anemone. It is definitely not a good combination.> Thanks so much for your time. <You're welcome! Brenda> Chaetodon ephippium comp. 1/2/07 Howdy Crew and Happy
New Year!! <Happy new year to you and yours as well! JustinN with
you on this fine day.> We currently have a 90G display tank, 29 G
QT, and a 10G algae/pod grower. <Ok, sounds good> We bought the
display tank used with ~90# of LR. It was down for 3 hours before being
restarted with 60G old water 30G new. It has a Coralife 220 skimmer 3G
HOB 'fuge an Emperor 280 BW and PH's that turn the water 14x an
hour. Amm and NI are 0 NA < 10ppm pH 8.0, Alk 4.25 meq/L, Ca 400ppm
<Good> Current occupants are: 2 Sebaes,1 C. bispinosus, 1
"lawnmower" blenny, 3 cleaner shrimp,1 peppermint shrimp, 3
small Mithrax crabs,& 40 or so snails. The Sebaes and bispinosus
just went in after a 4 week QT and Meth Blue dip, so we are looking for
the next occupants of the QT. <Ok> I've read quite a few
posts about Tangs bullying butterfly's if the Tangs were there
first so... <Yes, the tang would be established and likely bully
some... I'd add last> Would it be a good idea to get a pair of
C. ephippiums before getting a Kole Tang? In Scott Michaels "
Butterfly's and Angelfishes" he states they are okay with soft
corals (none yet but we want some) and like to eat hair algae (got
plenty, want less) plus they like amphipods, too. <*Pulls out the
soapbox* Anemones and corals aren't really behaviorally compatible,
can lead to detrimental effects to all tank inhabitants if and when the
anemones decide to go on a walkabout. *Puts soapbox back away* My
theory here is the same as with the tang above. If the corals are
already established, there may be less chance of the butterflies going
after them.> Thanks again for this site. It really is awesome.
<Thank you for the kind words, Ed. Is certainly a labor of love.
-JustinN> Ed Chaetodon ulietensis. A Butterfly With Gourmet Taste! 9/29/06 Hi, <Hi There! Scott F. here today!> I am trying to find out more info on the Chaetodon ulietensis. I have heard that they devour Majano Anemones but would like to know if they will eat more than that if placed in a reef aquarium? <Very likely, yes. Although they may favor a particular type of anemone, the likelihood of them picking on other similar items is too great to ignore, IMO.> Will they eat or pick at clams, SPS polyps, LPS polyps, mushrooms, etc.? Thanks for any help you can give me. Jeff <Unfortunately, these fishes have developed a sort of "high end cleanup crew" reputation, but the fact is they are Butterflyfishes, and certainly will munch on the gamut of typical reef inhabitants (soft corals, Zoanthids, hard corals, etc.). I would only keep this animal if you are prepared for the collateral damage that they can cause to your reef system. As aquarium fish, however, they are attractive, active, and relatively adaptable. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.> Jeff Reed Butterfly Chomping On Corals 8/21/06 Bob, <Scott F. with you today.> Quick question for you - I have a Chaetodon xanthurus in a 110 gallon with about 20 large SPS Staghorn colonies. He picks on them quite a few times per day - I imagine eating a coral polyp with every nibble. This causes several of the corals to withdraw their polyps (at least during the day when I can watch). <I can imagine the picking he/she is doing when you aren't watching! LOL.> Will SPS still grow under this condition - i.e. inability to extend their polyps? Will the butterfly eat the entire coral down to the skeleton typically? Best, Kris BerlinMethod.com <Well, Chris, in the closed system with its finite coral population and limited space, it's going to be a serious issue. Sure, the corals can continue to grow if some of them can extend their polyps, but it is not very likely. The constant picking will also cause some other possible problems for the corals, such as disease, and in the event of dead sections on the coral, nuisance algae growing over these sections. Typically, the Butterflies will pick at the coral itself, and maybe pull off some surrounding tissue in the process. Disease and/or secondary predators can complete the job started by the Butterfly. In the end, it's probably better to pull out the corals or the fish if you intend for them to thrive indefinitely. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.> Semilarvatus Butterfly... Reef
Compatibility 8/7/06 I just wanted to ensure that
this e-mail was received. I sent it about a week ago and I
would assume it's floating around somewhere trying to find somebody
with a sufficient answer - but my email is flakey so I didn't know
if it got lost in cyberspace and just wanted to double check.
<Believe this was replied to.> Friends at WWM, <Scott> Just
one brief question - does anybody have any idea what corals in
particular might be threatened by Semilarvatus
Butterflies? I am considering a pair for my 1300g reef, but
would like to know exactly what kind of risk I would be
running. The tank has around 1500lbs of rock, two refugiums,
and they will be kept very well fed. <Some folks say with caution,
others, not reef safe. They do feed on sessile inverts in
the wild which includes many of the ornamental varieties we
keep. If it were my call, I would not chance it. James
(Salty Dog)> Scott Butterflies in A Reef.. Worth The Gamble? - 05/23/2006 Hello WWMCrew! <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> I have an easy question today! I have a 250gallon coral tank that has a good 250lbs of live rock, and lots of LPS corals (Bubble Corals, Trachyphyllia, Wellsophyllia, Torch, and Trumpet Coral) scattered throughout the tank. As well as a few Crocea clams. As far as fish go, I have a few gobies, 5 small (1 inch) Hippo Tangs, and a 4 inch Powder Blue Tang. My question is, can I introduce the Longnose Butterfly into this system? <Although I have seen it done before with this fish, it's really a role of the dice, as far as Butterflies in a reef are concerned. Some individuals will be all to happy to help themselves to an abundant supply of corals, LPS or otherwise. Others will ignore the corals completely. Perhaps you could introduce some of the corals into the quarantine tank to see if the Butterflies show any interest. I'd be really cautious about introducing the fish into a tank filled with active fishes like Tangs already in residence. In my experience, the best time to put Butterflies into a tank is when it's newly set up. They tend to be rather easily intimidated at first, and they may not do well.> I have read they can eat LPS's and I don't want to lose my beautiful corals. Also, if they can be introduced, is it possible to have a small school of 5 or so? <Well, if one is a gamble, then 5 would be a REALLY big gamble! Besides, think about the end game here. You have 5 Hippo Tangs that get huge. Adding a quantity of additional fish is potentially problematic, and could overload your system's capacity.> Thanks! Ramon E. Gonzalez IV <My pleasure, Ramon. Hope that you make the right call! Regards, Scott F.> Heniochus Stocking Question - 03/31/06 Hi! <<Hello!>> A little over a month ago, I emailed you concerning adding 2 Heniochus Butterfly fish to a 72 gallon tank. You said that it would be possible, depending on what else was going in. The fish that I am referring to grow to b/w 9 and 10 inches <<Hmm...H. acuminatus then?>> <Won't grow this large here... RMF> and they are the only things that I planned on adding. Now, I was thinking about transferring a Rainford goby from another tank into the 72 gallon as well. I did not want him to be harassed by the strawberry Pseudochromis that I was thinking about adding (to my 46 gallon). Would that be okay, considering the fact that it hovers near the live rock most of the time? <<Should be fine, yes. Regards EricR>> Pakistani Butterfly/Compatibility - 03/25/2006 I've
been researching butterfly fish options to add to my 70G SW tank and am
intrigued by the possibility of a pair of Chaetodon collare or
Pakistani butterflies. My tank, which holds about 90
lbs of live rock, has been up and running for more than a year and
currently is home to a dispar Anthias pair and a clarkii clown &
green bubble tip anemone, along with a cleaner shrimp and assorted
snails and crabs. All appear to be doing wonderfully
well. Due to the addition of the bubble tip, I've
not added any corals. My question lies with the
relative Compatibility between the butterflies and the bubble tip, as
I've read that some, but not all, Chaetodons like to munch on
anemones of different sorts. I suspect the clown would honor its
obligation to protect its host anemone, keeping it fairly safe from any
nipping or picking. Is this one of the safer butterflies to
keep with an anemone? Also, nearly everything I've
read has suggested getting a pair of Pakistanis rather than just
one. Does simultaneous introduction generally lead to
a fine result regardless of whether they were a previous
"pair"? Lastly, what, if any, other
corals/inverts could I introduce safely with the Pakistanis? I
recognize that butterflies in general are not reef safe but that
there's a sliding "safety" scale with regard to this
family. Thanks for any additional insight you can
offer. I'm happy to follow any advice you
offer. Wonderful web site. <Eric, the
BTA may very well become the first food for these guys as they do feed
on SPS corals in nature, and with none available, the BTA may start
looking good to them. I do not know what your experience
level is but the Pakistani's are not one of the easiest butterfly
fish to maintain. Do research more on this fish before
buying. Start here. http://wetwebmedia.com/bfsysfaqs.htm
James (Salty Dog)> Marine Compatibility/Long Nose Butterflyfish - 02/27/06 I have just setup a 90 gallon tank to be used as a fish only. I was researching compatibility. I wanted to keep a dogface puffer in with a snowflake moray and a long nosed butterfly. Is there a compatibility issue here? <What did you come up with when searching compatibility? Read here and related links shown in title bar. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/forcipig.htm> Thank you very much for your time. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Eddie V. Butterflies & angels/Compatibility/McDonalds on the reef 2/14/06 I know that no fish can ever be considered reef safe, but which butterflies are least likely to pick at soft corals? Everything I read tends to lean more towards them munching on worms and LPS corals. <If I were to take the CHANCE, it would be with a Raccoon Butterfly if yellow is what you are after. Second choice would be the Auriga Butterfly. I want a good bit of yellow for some reason and was also looking at a Lemonpeel angel as well. Do you foresee any great threat? <I have a false Lemonpeel in a reef tank causing no problems. They are easier to acclimate to prepared food than the Lemonpeel. All you are giving up are the blue eyelids. Compare to women...Two identical gals, one with blue eyes the other brown. The brown is much easier on your wallet...choose. James (Salty Dog)> Butterflyfish/Compatibility - 2/11/2006 Hey <Hey to you also.> Please provide me with some names (not scientific names) of suitable butterfly fish which are hardy, stay small, and do not eat corals. <That information is already on the Wet Web Media, do Google search it.> Thank you very much! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Aureofasciatus Angel... Butterfly 02-05-06 Hello, It is Jonathan again, almost 17. It has been a while since I have been to Wet-Web and I had a question for ya. Is there anyway of being able to keep a Aureofasciatus Angel in a coral tank? <... do you mean the Butterflyfish? There is no such animal as an Aureofasciatus Angel as far as I'm aware> I have 125 gallon tank about 1 1/2 years old with leather coral, cup coral, button polyps, big mushroom coral and an anemone. The tank also has a lot of sponges and varieties of algae. Living in the tank now is an Achilles Tang, an Angel, <What species?> a cleaner Shrimp and a Scarlet Lady Shrimp. All are peaceful and will eat out of my hand, especially the Tang. <A testament to your good care> The Tang will swim around my hand whenever it is in the tank.. Right now, I have a Lawnmower Blenny ad a small Tomato Clown in quarantine. The Tang reminds me more of dog than a fish. I know most Butterflies are not suitable for coral tanks but I kind of like the fish And thought that he would like the 125 gal rock tank rather a 10 gal open. Thanks for all your help. Jonathan <... worth trying. Bob Fenner> Heniochus intermedius 1/19/06 Hey crew and specifically to whoever's answering questions tonight. <James this AM> I'm planning a 10' long tank and was looking at the Heniochus Intermedius. I know opinions on whether or not Heni's are reef safe are not are varied even on the WWM staff (I know Mr. Fenner usually states them as reef-safe barring individual personalities), but this is usually stated about Diphreutes or about the genus in general. My question is how does the Intermedius fare on the reef-safe scale? Is it generally safe like Diphreutes or not traditionally so as with the Acuminatus? Any help you can give would be great. <As with all Heniochus/butterflies the Red Sea Banner Fish possess individual personalities and while one may not bother anything, another may wipe out your worm population. The mouth is designed for poking in crevices and retrieving worms and such.> Also, if considered reef-safe for the most part, would I still be looking at losing all of my fan worms if I were to have 5 in a 10' long tank? <The chance you will have to take my friend, no guarantees. James (Salty Dog)> <<If hungry, Banner Butterflyfishes will definitely consume tubiculous Polychaete worms. RMF>> Thanks. <You're welcome> Nick Tang/Butterfly Dispute - 01/18/06 Hello, <<Howdy>> I am having a major problem and don't know what to do. I have a 75 gallon FOWLR. Last night I added a Copperband Butterfly. I read everything I could find about the fish first before adding him and asked three of my LFS people before getting him but this still didn't prevent what has been happening. <<Don't ya just hate it when the fish don't read the same books, talk to the same people!>> My Powder Brown Tang has been chasing him all over the tank forcing him to hide in the top corners of the tank. I turned off the lights and the aggression seemed to drop off a bit. This morning I saw him chasing him around some more and back to the corner he retreated. My question is will this subside? <<Hard to say...>> Should I just yank him now and put him back in QT? Here are all the tankmates: 75 Gallons 80 pounds of LR 1 Tomato Clown 1 Powder Brown Tang 4 Green Chromis 1 Cleaner Shrimp Thanks, Jason <<I would leave the butterfly in the display, pull the tang and put it in the QT tank, rearrange the rockwork in the display, and reintroduce the tang in about a week's time...if all goes well the butterfly will be comfortable/familiar enough and the tang confused enough the aggression will be mitigated. regards, EricR>> Butterflies Are NOT Free! (If You Love Your Corals, That Is!) 1/13/06 Hail Wizards of The Wet Wonder World, <Yikes! What a title to live up to! You'll just have to settle for mere mortal Scott F. today! LOL> I come seeking council on the wisdom of adding a butterfly to a mixed reef system. <Ahh...a fun way to go!> My little slice of the ocean is 110 gallons and a mix of mostly LPS, softies and a handful of SPS. I am considering one of the following Butterflies for purchase: Yellow Long Nose, Raccoon or Copperband. I have read as much as I could find and know it's a crap shoot, as there are both success and horror stories to envy War and Peace for word count. <Absolutely. If you are aware of the risks and are willing to accept the potential consequences, it's a risk worth taking, IMO. Butterflies in an established reef tank are a spectacular sight!> Fully understanding this gamble, my question is to you what of my sensible invertebrates are most at risk. In a dream world the Button Polyps, Zoos, Star Polyps and Tubeworms that grow like weeds in my system would be first target, but your opinion would go a long way to aid my final decision. <Well, the aforementioned animals ARE likely targets, but your fish might take a liking to that rare Acropora or your prized colony of Montipora Capricornis! Hard to say, really. > Though fish can not be removed, any picked on corals can, and I can easily arrange new and healthy homes for them. To sum up, I'm just trying to envision which coral type will be the focus of further reef development with a Butterfly on board. SPS, LPS, or Softies? Thanks a bunch KRH <Great question; one for which (of course) there is no one guaranteed answer! If it were me, I'd be concerned about the softies with the Raccoon in particular. Anemones with all of them, and some SPS with the Raccoon and the Copperband. Of the three species that you mention, I've seen the greatest degree of success with the Longnose. I personally kept a Longnose for years in a mixed reef with no problems, save the odd peck at a coral now and then. Does this mean that you'll have great results? Nope! But if you are set upon having a Butterfly in your reef, the Longnose (Forcipiger flavissimus) and the "Big" Longnose (F. longirostris) are the ones to try, IMO. It's a tough call, really-if you value your corals. Me, I love fish more than corals, so I'm willing to accept some "collateral damage". Are you? Hope this helps! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Forcipiger flavissimus and Zebrasoma flavescens in the same tank
10/17/05 Greetings, Please excuse me if I have overlooked the
answer. I've searched the site and have yet to find the answer to
this question: Will F. flavissimus and Z. flavescens live peacefully in
the same tank? Your B/F section indicates that the F. flavissimus
should be introduced early in the life of a tank so that it may
"stake a claim." Everything I've read about Z. flavescens
says that it is a peaceful resident and warns that I should have only
one to a tank. Since both of these fish reach approximately the same
adult size, will the Z. flavescens be too aggressive for the B/F
(another potentially large yellow fish competing for resources)?
<Mark, I would put the long nose in first, then a week or two later
the tang. They should get along well. You may see the tang chase the
long nose occasionally but no harm should be done. James (Salty
Dog)> Semilarvatus Compatibility Question Hello WWM Crew! <Hey> Your web forums have been an invaluable source of information for my fianc?and me. <Glad we can help> We are currently adding livestock to a 100 gal tank with a 2" sand bed and 100lbs of live rock. The tank has been up and running since January. I have a hang-on back CPR refugium with built in protein skimmer, along with an additional CPR Back-Pak. <Sounds like you have more than adequate filtration for this aquarium> For circulation I have constructed an in tank, closed loop manifold out of pvc running off an AquaClear 110 Powerhead. Currently in our tank: 2 False Percula Clown Fish, 1 Yellow tail Damsel, 1 Sunrise Damsel, 1 Bi-Color Blenny, and a cleaner shrimp. We also have a few hermit crabs and a turbo snail. We LOVE the golden butterflies and want to add one but we have two worries: 1) Will he eat our shrimp and other inverts and 2) even singularly, will 100 gal be enough space for a fish that can reach 9-10"? We couldn't find anything in the forums that discussed their taste for shrimp, and I know that a pair of goldens needs 250-300 gal, but saw no info for solo specimens. <I have kept these beauties in my aquarium since I was 15 years old. They are hardy specimens provided there are no bullies and the water quality is kept up, they should not eat any shrimp....at one point I had 15 blood shrimp in my aquarium (during last hurricane season) and they never once picked on the shrimp> Would you recommend the Pakistani or Pyramid Butterfly instead? <No the golden is much nicer> And if we added a Flame Angel later on are we maxing out our bio-load? <A small flame angel should be fine later on...but after that I would just keep your current mix of fish> We appreciate any advice and thanks again...<your welcome...also make sure you get a very healthy Semilarvatus. I go to the wholesalers once a week and have seen some pretty awful looking ones lately...be picky very picky :) IanB> Butterflyfish compatibility 8/17/05 Hi, I would like to know if you can put a Threadfin butterfly fish and a Pearlscale butterfly in the same tank. I have a 55 gallon tank with about 25lbs. of live rock in it. <You may have a few minor spats, but don't see any problem. A 55 is kind of small especially if the threadfin is rather large. These fish need really good water quality and diet to maintain for any length of time. James (Salty Dog)> Auriga "Threadfin" Butterflyfish compatibility? 6/18/05 One quick question...Will an Auriga Butterflyfish (Chaetodon auriga) be compatible with cleaner shrimp and a pencil urchin? I saw on several sites that this fish "can, but with caution" be kept with inverts. Thanks a bunch! mike <This fish is far and away one of the hardiest and most suitable butterflies for aquarium life. They will be safe with urchins and most other inverts. Shrimp may be at risk here... but no more than they already are from other common/popular reef fishes like tangs. A small risk indeed. Anthony> Butterfly combination I currently have a cbb. The LFS has a nice Longnose that they have had for about a month. Is it possible to have him in with my cbb in a lightly stocked 180. <Their body shapes are so very similar I would be a worried about combining them. But if you have lots of pods and lots of hiding places it might work. They are generally not schooling butterflies like some of the others are. MacL> Urgent Question on Butterfly - Anemone Compatibility Just had a once in a long while opportunity to purchase a juvenile Chaetodon mitratus from the fine folks at Marine Center. Even though I have a couple of Acroporas in my tank, I've always loved the family Roa butterflies. <I too admire the chaetodonts of this subgenus. In fact, a friend is visiting (JasonC) who has a declivis tattoo on his calf! And is looking forward to perhaps buying a couple in LA tomorrow> After purchasing the butterfly, I started thinking about the lovely rose bulb anemone in my tank. It's doing exceptionally well due to lighting and supplemental feeding. I am now worried that the C. mitratus might eat my anemone since there are no clowns to protect it. Do you guys and gals know if Family Roa butterflies have been know to dine on anemones? <Not commonly, but have heard they will nip them at times.> I'm hoping not since they are typically deepwater fish, and I don't suppose there are many types of deepwater anemones due to lack of light, although I know there are some carnivorous species. Any thoughts on the danger to my rose bulb? Also, what types of corals would be safe with a Roa butterfly? Thanks in advance! <I give you very good odds that they will co-exist. Bob Flavocoronatus Fenner> Thank you for the quick response. Also Bob, if you wouldn't mind, ask Jason how the 5 bar mystery wrasse is doing that I sent him. <Will do> I believe it was Jason anyways. About a year or two ago I had a small 5 bar that was destroying all of my kids pet cleaner shrimp, and sent the little guy to Jason I believe for an autographed version of your book! It is now proudly displayed in my reef room, along with 'A Guide to Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes' signed by Rich Pyle, Jerry Allen, and none other than Jack Randall. Pretty good company your keeping Mr. Fenner! <Very fine folks indeed. Bob F> Reef Safe Butterflies? Hi Folks; <John> Wonderful web site, chock full of information, and yet...... Here's the question (and I have poured over the FAQs and am still not sure): Like many, I can't help but view butterflies as perhaps one of THE quintessential reef fishes, and would like to have one in my 90. I have tried a H. acuminatus and a Chaetodon unimaculatus (at different times) and both took an immediate and undesired liking to my open brain coral, (but not other corals including my Sebae anemone) so I quickly traded them in. Now I have spotted at my LFS a very nice Chaetodon miliaris, which by some accounts may be "reef safe". <Toward that end of a/the scale, yes... am diving with this species almost daily out in Hawai'i> Would it be worth a try, perhaps placing the brain in the quarantine tank with it as a test? <A good idea> Or should I perhaps look for a H. diphreutes as a better choice? Or should I abandon the idea as folly? <Folly and reef aquarium keeping go hand in hand!> I of course realize that the term "Reef Safe" is somewhat subjective and some sources don't even consider tangs as reef safe, but an informed opinion would be helpful. Thanks JT <I say it's worth a go. Bob Fenner> Butterfly eating a cucumber Hi guys. Let me quickly say first that I am a huge fan. Your website and published material are a magnificent resource - unparalleled, to my knowledge. Furthermore, individuals of your caliber are a credit to the species; your very existence is sublime. Now that I'm through gushing, on to my question. I recently inherited a well established 200 gal reef tank. It was my fathers before me and although I always had a hand in things, I've only recently gotten creative control. One of the first things I did was introduce a pair of Pink & Green Sea Cucumbers (Cucumaria sp., I believe). I'm well aware of the potential danger they pose, but I've loved Holothuroidea since childhood and I simply couldn't resist the chance to finally have some of my own. So far, they seem to be doing quite well. I did a fair amount of research before and after acquiring the pair and have every reason to believe they are quite happy. That is, accept for the following. Amongst others, the tank contains a Butterfly Tang that's been with us for quite some time. My father was very fond of this fish (despite the obvious) and I would hate to see anything happen to him, so I became a little worried when he took a chomp out of one of the cucumbers. Fortunately, nothing catastrophic happened. Having read your Cukes guide I assumed it was an isolated incident: "Only the very hungriest and naive fish will (re-)try chomping on a Sea Cucumber." However, he seems to have developed a taste for them! << Very odd. >> Whenever they expose their tentacles to filter for too long, he'll take a bite out of one! << Oh I gotcha ya'. Yah I can see that happening. I wouldn't worry much about it, and would hope the Cuke learns. >> It goes without saying this has me quite concerned. I mean, sooner or later won't one of them simply get feed up and napalm the whole jungle? << Well that would be terrible, but honestly I've never known anyone who had that happen. >> Baring that, won't the Butterfly get sick? << I don't believe so. Here is why. If it is indeed toxic, logic would say he'll stop eating them. I think that may just happen. >> I feed him plenty, so I doubt he's doing it out of hunger. In any event, what do you suggest? << Nothing really. I think you leave them be and see what happens. I don't know if there is anything you can do. >> I've been keeping the cucumbers alive by supplying them with plenty of liquid plankton whenever the Butterfly is busy feeding on his usual frozen favorites far from the Cukes corner. << Great idea. >> Speaking of which, is it possible to over feed them in this way? << No, and live phyto is always good for the rest of the system as well. >> Not that I could ever distract Madam Butterfly long enough to do so, but I could happily watch them stuff themselves all day. Anyway, I sure could use some advice. I really don't want to get ride of either party, but is there anything else I can do? Thanks for your time. << Just let them work it out. >> << Blundell >> Chaetodon mitratus Compatibility Good day crew, <Good day! It's a nice day to be wireless!> I currently house a Copperband in my 240 reef loaded with LPS and SPS. It took less than a week for the Copperband to eliminate all my Aiptasia and unfortunately tubeworms as well. <An unfortunate side-effect> I now literally have to pluck Aiptasia from my refugium to feed the Copperband! Well, getting to the point, I love the butterfly in my reef, it makes it look complete, and I'm thinking of getting another reef-safer butterfly, Chaetodon mitratus. Will they get along? <I'd say that you've got enough volume to handle both...although I'd monitor things closely for some time> Currently my fish load includes mystery wrasse, purple Firefish, ventralis, 2x Amblygobius rainfordi, 3x Amblygobius hectori, pair of Pseudanthias pulcherrimus, yasha hase, and Copperband. <Sounds very nice. Good luck! Ryan> Need your advice. Thanks a bunch! Roy Compatibility of Black & White Heniochus? Are the following completely compatible together? << Nothing is completely compatible, but we can generalize here. >> Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.) Red Sea Star (Fromia milleporella) Squamosa Clam (Tridacna squamosa) Blue Tuxedo Pincushion Urchin (Mespilia globulus) << Yes, I would say these items are fine in a reef tank together. >> Second question: Are there ANY corals that the Heniochus Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) is compatible with? << Certainly. They are known to pick at Zoanthids and small polyps, but I've seen many Heniochus in reef tanks living fine with large soft colt corals and mushroom anemone rocks. Every fish has its own personality, but these fish are commonly seen in reef tanks. >> << Blundell >> Long Nose Butterfly & Reef Tank 7/19/04 WWM Crew, <Hi MacL here with you tonight> I have a 75 gallon reef setup and am considering getting another fish to liven it up. The Longnose butterfly (F. flavissimus), caught my eye, but I am concerned about its compatibility with the tank's current inhabitants (vertebrate and not). First off, are they compatible with corals. I've heard both ways on this, and wanted to know what you thought. <I think the reason for this is that they go both ways, they can be reef safe yet some of them definitely are not.> There's no tearing this tank down to capture a coral-eater, so It'd be good to know before it gets in there. I have mainly LPS with a few soft corals (mainly various leathers). I also have a clam (T. deresa) that is doing well. On the vertebrate side, I have a yellow tang, and I don't know if it would get along because of similar color/body shape. I also have a mandarin that's doing great, but I don't want it to starve because of excessive competition from the butterfly. <If you can't take it out and you think you might have to my advice is not to put it in.> Thanks in advance. Long-Nosed Butterflyfish Compatibility (7/12/04) Hi--I'm thinking about future livestock and one fish I was interested in was the yellow Longnose butterfly. <Forcipiger flavissimus. A beautiful, rather hardy, and generally peaceful fish.> Can you tell me if this fish would be safe with a Fromia star? <should not be a problem. Has been known to nip at tubeworms and the tube feet of sea urchins. Generally not a problem for corals either.> Are there any other inverts that would be at risk from it? <As above> thanks. <This fish is a nice choice with generally peaceful tankmates in at least 75 gallons. Do read and learn more from various sources. Steve Allen.> REEF COMPATIBILITY OF BUTTERFLYFISHES Hi, I have a 230 gal tank with 230 lb. of Fiji rock. The tank is 4 months old. I would like to add one or two C. paucifasciatus to join a Klein's butterfly, coral beauty, algae blenny, two Percula clowns and several pulsing Xenia. The Klein's doesn't touch the Xenia. How expensive are these fish in N. America? << Not sure, but a closely related fish would be much easier to find, and a lot cheaper. I would think a C. mertensii would be about $30. >> Would a random pair get along with each other and the Klein's (and the Xenia). << Tough call. I'll say that it is about a 50/50 chance. I would think you are safer with one fish, but two fish in a tank that size may do okay. Many butterflies will pair bond, so you may luck out. >> Are there any other soft corals that I could add with these Butterflyfishes? << Absolutely. I think many soft corals would do well, but I would stay way from small polyps and Zoanthids. >> Thank you. Peter << Good luck, Adam B. >> Butterfly Compatibility Hello, <Hi Kevin> I've been looking in to Butterfly's recently and found a few that caught my eye. Currently, I have a 100 gal FO and a 300 gal. FO in the works. I hope to have the 300 running a year from now, lots of equipment left to buy $$$$$$$$$. Anyway, I may have missed it, but is it possible to mix a threadfin, C. xanthurus, C. falcula, C. rafflesi in one system? Or any combo of the 4? Would I be able to put any of these in the 100 gal? Thanks again for all of your help in the past. Advice has been put to use and is working perfectly. < Compatibility is not really going to be as much of an issue as size limitations, meaning that 4 fish of this size and their space requirements may not be effectively met within a 100 gallon aquarium. Now if you were considering putting them in the 300 gallon, that would be absolutely justifiable and a perfect captive environment for them. Aside from the somewhat small constraints of a 100 gallon, these 4 fish should have little to no problems being in the same environment.> Kevin Bannerfish and Corals 5/26/04 Hi Crew, Hope you had a pleasant weekend! <Thanks! You too.> Have recently purchased Bannerfish; were labeled and sold as Heni. acuminatus but are actually diphreutes. My mushrooms have been safe so far should I say!!! The LFS says mushrooms are not bothered by diphreutes as well as leather coral. After looking through your FAQ on Bannerfish I still have a question. What if any polyps or other corals are not eaten by diphreutes. I was particularly interested in Zoanthus polyps group or could you suggest some other hardy corals safe with diphreutes. <Most if not all corals should be safe with most specimens of H. Diphreutes.> Could you also recommend an informative book on anemones? <Yes! "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones: A Guide for Aquarists and Divers" by Fautin and Allen. It is a bit out of date and not super complete, but remains the best aquarium reference on this specific topic.> Thanks once again for your much appreciated help and expertise and look forward to your reply. Regards Ceil Wagaman <Glad to help! Adam> Featherduster Muncher? Hi Scott <Hello again!> One other question regarding the butterfly's Do they eat the Featherdusters? <Um, yep!> I had a few Featherdusters in my tank and now I don't see them anymore, all gone. Could the butterfly be eating them? Thanks Ziad <I'd state with almost total certainty that the butterfly was munching on your Featherdusters. These types of animals are a definite dietary component for these guys. Butterfly fish are generally about as "reef unsafe" as you can get, with a few exceptions....Regards, Scott F> Butterfly stocking II Hi again.<Howdy!> Personally the raccoon isn't my favourite. Would one be ok. <These guys are usually not considered to be reef safe anyway. You might be able to get away with one.> If it's not what would be 2 other fish you would recommend rather the Butterflyfish.<How about a dwarf angel or a fox face. Cody> Scott. P.S. I am looking into corals so I am picking fish that are either entirely reef safe or caution required. 2 Butterflies? Hi this is Jonathan just wondering if it would be alright to have a Copperband and Longnose butterfly fish together.<Depends on how large of tank you have, if you have less than a 180 I would not place them together.> Hope to be a sponsor of your website by summer.<Awesome!! Cody> thanks for everything. Mixing up the Butterflies..? >Hi gang, my current fascination seems to be with butterflies as I plan for a new (larger) f/o tank. I now have a Copperband in the 110 ( nearly a year) and a Pearlscale in quarantine (he's doing quite well). I keep coming across comments indicating that two conspecific can be kept together if a male/female pair, yet I can find no information on determining sex. A tad frustrating. >>Yeah.. I haven't found a darn thing regarding sexual dimorphism of butterfly FISH, though I'm finding plenty on other fish and actual butterflies. In any event, I've seen butterflies mixed in rather large numbers in a 110 quarantine tank - raccoon, threadfin, Copperband, Pearlscale.. and now the last two species escape me. We had some shy ones, but I saw not ONE instance of aggression between any fish. >In the event that I cannot mix the cb with the Pearlscale I could move him (the cbb) to my reef and add a "mate" for the pearl, IF I can determine sex. Any help? As always, TIA - D >>I would join at least three different saltwater boards. I will suggest http://www.reefs.org (publishers of Advanced Aquarist online magazine), http://www.reefcentral.com (they publish their own online Mag, the name escapes me. However, I've found that it is VERY easy to get completely lost in the traffic there.) And last I would try http://www.wetwebfotos.com/talk (our sister board with forums). There are many other sites, but I have no experience with them at all, so cannot speak for the quality, "flavor", etc. Marina Copperbanded Butterfly fish with a Regal Tang? Hi, Would a Copperbanded butterfly fish be compatible with a regal tang? <This duo should be fine...but please purchase an Australian Copperband b/f they do much better than their Indonesian counterparts!!!, IanB> Regards Aaron. Preventing Butterfly Battles And Other Problems... Dear Mr. Fenner, <Scott F. pinch-hitting here today..> First of all, thank you for being there. <I'm sure I speak for all of us at WWM when I thank you for your kind words! We really enjoy being here for our fellow hobbyists!> I have a 50 gallon tank its been running now for 3 months. In total, I've had it for 4 years but, It had to be drained and shipped overseas. Now, I have 1 Auriga butterfly, 2 Ocellaris and 1 Yellow Wrasse. About 25 lbs. of live rocks. Tank is running well. Is it okay if I add a Pakistani butterfly? <To be honest- no...For one thing, the Auriga can hit a substantial size, and will require a considerably larger tank for long-term success and growth. Throwing another butterfly fish into the mix would be detrimental for both.> "I fell in love with this fish" It would be my last addition in the tank. But I couldn't find any information if my tank is big enough? Or, will these two butterflies co exist within this space? Thank you for your time. Kind regards, Mike. <As discussed, I don't think that this is a viable plan. Also, if you take into account the fact that many of these fishes don't adapt to captive diets, and you have what may be a less-than-optimal fish...It IS beautiful, but I think that it needs to have a situation where it is the only butterfly in the tank, or added at the same time as another butterfly (all in a tank larger than 100 gallons, IMO) to avoid conspecific aggression. All in all, I'd hang on to your plans for this fish until you can supply it more optimal conditions...You're going to be in the hobby a long time, and there will be plenty available in the future, when your ready. Regards, Scott F> Copperbanded Butterflyfish...not "reef safe" Hi, Can the Copperbanded Butterflyfish be determined reef safe? <To be honest with you...I do not consider ANY butterfly fish "reef safe"., IanB> Regards Aaron. Heniochus, Reef safe? (9-5-03) Hi,<Howdy, sorry for the delayed reply.> I have a Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) and I am interested in getting a Blue Mushroom Coral (Actinodiscus sp.) from my LFS. I know Butterflyfish are always risky to mix with reefs, but I really don't what corals fall into their diet. I also would like to get a Bulb Anemone (Entacmaea quadricolor) eventually. Are there any concerns with this animal and the mushroom coral or any of the other livestock? Currently, that tank has a yellow tang, blue tang, a coral beauty and the Heniochus. Finally, what kind of clown would you suggest, if any, to pair with the Bulb Anemone? Any info would be great.<He should be fine , I would say go for it as long as you have the proper lighting and done your research. As for clowns it would help if I new the size of your tank, but assuming you are not overstocked you could go with ocellaris or perculas as they stay smaller. Cody> thanks! Chris -Heniochus compatibility- Hi, I have a Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) and I am interested in getting a Blue Mushroom Coral (Actinodiscus sp.) from my LFS. I know Butterflyfish are always risky to mix with reefs, but I really don't what corals fall into their diet. <If you're sure that it's a H. acuminatus then it may be a problem. H. diphreutes is a completely reef safe Heniochus b'fly and is almost identical to the former. H. diphreutes can be distinguished (according to Scott Michael) by having "a more rounded breast, less-protruding snout, and the middle black band ends at the corner of the anal fin".> I also would like to get a Bulb Anemone (Entacmaea quadricolor) eventually. Are there any concerns with this animal and the mushroom coral or any of the other livestock? <Only with the b'fly (potentially)>Currently, that tank has a yellow tang, blue tang, a coral beauty and the Heniochus. Finally, what kind of clown would you suggest, if any, to pair with the Bulb Anemone? <Just about any of the common clowns will adopt BTA's, pick your favorite!> Any info would be great. thanks! <Good luck identifying the butterfly! -Kevin> Chris Pyramid Butterfly I was wondering if Pyramid butterflies are reef-safe. Would they do fine in a SPS tank, or would they eat the polyps. would the lights be to bright. Would they pick at any LPS corals (Cyanaria, Blastomussa). Any info would be appreciated. <Hemitaurichthys polylepis... is likely to the far right side in its likelihood, tendency to "leave Scleractinians, Alcyonaceans alone"... The species, genus are principally zooplanktivores... do get quite big, live in areas of great water movement... Your lighting is probably fine, but procuring this BF in initially good condition (it ships poorly) is not easily done. Do seek out Hawaiian specimens if you're in the U.S.A.. Bob Fenner> Butterfly question Hello Crew, question for Mr. Fenner is possible. On an old FAQ response said the following in regards to a Chaetodon semilarvatus in reef tanks: <Not likely to eat your corals if otherwise well fed... as a percent/scale of risk, low... though not lowest... some 20-30% possibility of some coral polyp foraging...> My question is, which one would be considered lowest? Thank you Paul <Let's see... about tied for the genera Hemitaurichthys, Chelmon, Chelmonops and Forcipiger butterflies... and Chaetodon lunula... Bob Fenner> Butterfly's with anemones Hi guys, How are we all this
Monday?<Fine and you?> Quick question: Can we keep a Double
Saddle Butterfly with a bubble tip anemone? <Personally I would not
trust "any" butterfly with an anemone, IanB> Thanks
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