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Mandarin System FAQs 2
Related FAQs: Mandarin Systems 1,
Psychedelic "Gobies"/Dragonets/Mandarins & their Relatives 1,
Mandarins , Mandarins 3, Mandarin
Identification, Mandarin Behavior,
Mandarin Selection, Mandarin
Compatibility, Mandarin Feeding,
Mandarin Disease/Health, Mandarin
Reproduction, Related Articles:
Psychedelic "Gobies"/Dragonets/Mandarins, real
Gobies & their Relatives, Uhh,
obviously no overly active, food-competing tankmates... Nor
predators! | 
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Uncovered pump intake
mandarin IN the power head and STILL alive 6/13/09
<Hello Trisha>
I tried finding an article/email with this particular problem and was
unable to.
<Well there is nothing posted exactly like your situation, but uncovered
power head intake problems happen all too often.>
I am also panicking a bit so I might have missed it. This morning I woke
up and couldn't find my mandarin and then discovered his head sticking
out of our power-head (where the water is drawn in). I immediately
unplugged it and went to get it with my tongs and net as it didn't just
come right out.
After two tugs with my tongs (I thought it was dead!) it slithered
itself out and went and rested on the rock.
<Wow, you seem to have a very hardy fish.>
I put a new guard on the power head,
<Very good idea, that should avoid the same situation in the future.>
and have been watching our male mandarin. He isn't breathing heavy and
is moving around, but not a lot. Although, I pretty much ran upstairs to
see if anyone else had this happen and wrote about it here. I also took
some of our grape Caulerpa from our sump and shook it off into the main
water for some more copepods. I also tried giving him a bit of
Cyclopeeze with the turkey baster. Anything else I can or need to do? I
know that our mandarin would not choose to hang out in there-or at least
assuming that he wouldn't.
<Mandarins are not very strong swimmers, it is possible he got a little
bit to close and the rest happened all too fast.
The movement of additional food from the refugium certainly will not
hurt, time will tell on this one. With some luck and continued good care
of your aquarium your mandarin may recover if no severe damage was
done.>
We have a 90 gallon with a 30 gallon sump. We have 75 - 80 pounds of
live rock that had been in tanks for several years. In our tank we have
a sail fin tang, two clown-fish, a scallop, skunk shrimp, two peppermint
shrimp and a few clean up crew guys. Our salinity is 1.023, nitrates 3,
nitrites 0, pH 8.3
Its almost time to do another water change which should get the nitrates
back down to 0. Thanks for your help in advance.
Hopefully we won't lose this guy!
<Good luck, and I hope he continues to recover.
Josh Solomon>
Mandarin Goby - It's last hope, sys. 10/4/08
I am sorry for writing this, I believe I have nearly all the information
I need from the pages on a Mandarin Goby. My point of confusion is
varying opinions on minimum tank size for providing for one.
<Mmmm...
not so much "room" for these fishes themselves as culture space for food
organisms.>
I work at the LFS and have access to nearly anything I
need, including hundreds of pounds of cured live rock and well
established sand from our tanks. That being said here is what I have
setup and running now: a 24"x24" 30 gallon tank with 45 pounds of live
rock, 1 Remora skimmer with Maxi-Jet 1200, 1 Aqua Clear 30 filter, 1
Seio 620, 1 Maxi-Jet 600, and 3" of .25-.50mm sand. I have a new All
Glass Model 4 Sump that is ready to be opened and setup as a refugium
when I move in 2 weeks.
<I would do ASAP>
It is 36"x13.75"x19" I
only have a Peppermint shrimp, 3 tiny brittle stars, 5 Cerith snails, 5
Nerite snails and 4 mushroom polyps in my tank. The mushroom polyps and
shrimp go back to the store any time I chose. My Ammonia is 0, Nitrite
is 0, Nitrate is 5. I do a 5% water change once a week (will move to
twice a week when bio-load is higher), top off my tank once a day with
RO/DI water, have a 20,000K MH light and the temperature 79-81.
We
are slowly phasing out our large marine tanks at our store so we will no
longer have a tank that can support the Mandarin. He has been at the
store for 6 months, is fat and only hides about half the day total.
<Hide much more of the time in the wild>
Here is where I am confused:
I have read here that I need a minimum of 8 square feet of ground area
or a minimum of 4 square feet to support a Mandarin. If I use a min. of
130 lbs. of the several year old live rock from work and have a minimum
of 4" of the .25-.50mm diameter sand in the tank and refugium will the
two be enough (not quite 7 sq. ft.) to keep the Mandarin from starving?
<With the refugium up and going, this should be plenty>
I believe I
will have only 4 months before the last large tanks are taken down and
it will finally need to come and live with me. It has no where else to
go but with me, I am confident that all would be well if I could talk my
boss out of the spare 55 gallon tank and use it as a refugium too. Of
course I will most likely be ordering copepods for some time until I
have a very large population established in the refugium, and try
feeding Roe as was suggested. I have a spare Urchin skimmer and a Remora
pro if needed for the larger refugium. Thank you for your time and help.
This site has been and is a fount of knowledge and I pass it on to all
of our customers.
Taylor Flack
<I do think your plan is fine. Bob
Fenner>
Cooling Fans & Green Mandarin – 07/15/08
Hello Crew,
<<Hiya
Frank>>
Your info has always helped me out.
<<We are pleased to
know this>>
Thanks for a great Site.
<<Quite welcome>>
One
question is with placing cooling fans in the canopy of my 125G tank.
<<Okay>>
Currently running metal halides, compact fluorescents, and
T-5s. I have 3 clip-on fans that barely fit in the canopy and keep the
canopy top open to keep the temp around 76-78 during these summer
months.
<<I see>>
I am planning on buying a low-voltage
transformer and wiring pc fans to keep it cool, quiet and keep the
canopy top down to look good.
<<Ah yes…I use a 12v outdoor-lighting
transformer to power some computer fans for this purpose>>
I was
wondering if about a dozen or so fans can be supported by a 150watt 12v
low-voltage transformer, or will I need a larger watt capacity
transformer?
<<That depends on the fans and their consumption
requirements, but very likely the 150w transformer will be fine. Figure
your transformer has about 12.5 amps of capacity (watts / volts = amps),
that means that all the fans will need to “total” less than 12.5 amps in
consumption. Most 12v fans will have their power requirement indicated
in milliamps (mA), with 1000-milliamps equaling 1-amp. These power
ratings are quite variable even among fans of the same size so you will
need to look around for fans to suit (try MPJA.com), and be aware those
power ratings will probably relate to how much air movement and noise
the fan makes. And something I have discovered that may be of interest
is “not all” Computer/PC fans will run on a common low-voltage power
transformer. I don’t know why, but I have a couple fans that will only
power up when I connect them to my lab-style bench top power supply. But
luckily, most of the fans I’ve purchased have run just fine on the
low-voltage lighting transformers I use around my tank>>
Second
question is that I was thinking about getting a Green Mandarin. The
specs of my tank are.......I've got a 125G tank with 46G sump. About
70lbs of live rock and a 3-4inch DSB. My tank has been up and running
for nearly 9months. I already have a Scooter Blenny that has thrived in
the 5 months he's been in there.
<<Mmm…and will be a serious food
competitor, and maybe even an aggressor, to the Green Mandarin>>
I
understand that Mandarins eat pods and other small organisms that live
within the sand and rock. I have a 28G tank that I used for Quarantine,
but haven’t bought a fish in months. In that tank, I have a 4inch sand
bed and about 3lbs of live rock. There are a ton of organisms including
pods in that tank. I will normally scatter food and watch them appear in
the daytime to gather food. I know that
Mandarins can completely and
possibly go through their food source in my main tank.
<<In short
order, yes…compounded already by the presence of the of the Scooter
Blenny>>
Would this work..........to rotate about 3-5 small 1-2lbs
pieces of live rock from my main tank to the 28G so that the life in the
28G would move/populate to these rocks and feed the mandarin in the live
tank?
<<It would help…but it would be much better to plumb this
impromptu refugium in to the display system to allow a “constant” influx
of food organisms and their progeny>>
I have a super small area in my
sump that I use as a Refugium with lots of Chaeto, DSB. But I don’t
think it would supply too much if any pods since they would be killed by
passing through my pump.
<<This is not the problem many think, most
small organisms make it through the pump just fine…and even those that
don’t still provide benefit/are consumed. The real issue is the size and
the refugiums capacity to support the display…best to add a larger
refugium>>
So do you think that my 28G tank would work good as a
surrogate Refugium to help a Mandarin?
<<It will help, yes…better so
if directly plumbed>>
Thanks you guys/gals
Frank X Meadors
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>
Mandarin Keeping…A Small Fish With Big Requirements – 06/06/08
Hello Crew,
>>Greetings Julian>>
Since reading accounts of
mandarins being kept in nanos and fed with daily doses of aquacultured
pods,
<<Mmm, I wonder what kind of “accounts” you refer to… Someone
stating they have kept a mandarin in a small tank for 6-months means
nothing…look for those who have done so for 6-“years”…and even then, one
or two success in thousands of attempts, well, I think you get what I
mean here…>>
I have been considering keeping a mandarin in my 52
gallon system. My system includes a 40 gallon tank, 12 gallon refugium,
PhosBan reactor, fluidized bed reactor, calcium reactor, skimmer, and
250 watt HM lighting, all DIY.
<<Although not really a “nano” system,
this is still quite small for this animal…in my opinion. As a general
rule, these fish need a relatively large amount of rock/substrate to
culture and harbor the food organisms they prey upon. The refugium you
have will help…finding a fish that will accept prepared foods (frozen
mysis/glass worms/etc.) will help…but none of these are as effective as
a system display tank large enough to culture/harbor a ready supply of
food organisms on its own…and of course, stocked with a dearth of prey
food competitors. I’m not saying you can’t be successful with this fish,
in this system, if you are dedicated to providing for its needs…but I
want to convey here that simply adding a refugium/culturing “pods” is no
panacea. To be successful with this fish for the long term you will need
to “dedicate” this smallish system to the Mandarin…meaning everything
you do, including stocking of both invertebrate and vertebrate
organisms, will need to be done with forethought to the Mandarin. So
think about it…is this a commitment you are willing to make?>>
My
system has been stable for 8 months with extremely high water quality
and all my coral are very happy. I am prepared to dedicate two sunlit
ten gallon tanks to aqua culturing pods to keep up my tanks supply. Will
this be adequate?
<<Dunno…but should help>>
Also, what is the
mortality rate of mandarins for non food related reasons?
<<In my
experience these fish are fairly disease resistant and are usually
ignored by their piscine tankmates (Pseudochromis/Dottybacks/Basslets
can be problematic in small systems), but do seem to easily fall prey to
large cnidarians. Starvation/lack of adequate nutritional requirement
(even when they take prepared foods) is arguably the leading cause of
this animal’s poor survival record in captivity… I don’t have any hard
numbers, but this fish’s survival rate in captivity does appear to be
dismal…much due I think to folks wrongly believing such a “small” fish
should surely be fine in a “small” system with no additional thought to
its’ care>>
What would be the minimum size tank for a mandarin with a
constant pod supply?
<<In my opinion…100-gallons>>
Thanks, Julian
<<Is a pleasure to share, Julian. Do yourself and this fish a service by
making sure you are able and willing to provide for its needs. It will
require much more than reading a few anecdotal accounts of success.
EricR>>
Refugium and Scooter Blenny
Utilizing a Refugium for Supplemental
Food Production -02/20/08
Hi Crew,
<Hey there, Scott F.
with you today!>
First, here are my stats.
<Here are mine- I'm 5'
7", brown hair, I'm a Sagittarius..oh- wait, wrong site!>
Aquarium
experience: 2 years
Marine experience: 5 months
Tank System::
FOWLR 30 gallon long, 5 months old, 4 inch sand bed, 40 lbs live rock,
Fluval 204 canister filter, AquaC Remora Pro Protein Skimmer with
Surface Prefilter, a 2 gallon hang-on-back refugium, etc (powerhead,
heater).
Pistol Shrimp, Cleaner Shrimp, small Yellow Clown Goby, Star
Blenny, Blue-Green Chromis, and snails. I have a Royal Gramma in
quarantine tank right now recovering from ich.
<Good practice to
treat the fish in a separate aquarium>
The skimmer and fuge are new
additions as of last weekend, and I have not seen any copepods in my
tank for months.
<Well, it's going to take a while for them to
reproduce in significant numbers.>
My questions are:
1) Can I
prepare a good habitat (keep enough copepods) for a Scooter Blenny with
my tank size through using the fuge and lots of live rock? Or should the
Scooter wait until I move out of my apartment and therefore am allowed
to get a larger system? I know you've recommended 100 gallons per
copepod-eating fish in an open system, but that seemed to not be
accounting for refugia.
<The 100 gallon recommendation is a good one,
but not an absolute, in my opinion. It takes into account a sort of
hypothetical "production level" of animals that can serve as food
sources. The thought is that 100 gallons is sufficiently large to
generate enough food for a given fish to consume without competition. A
refugium, of course, provides a "safe haven" for the food animals to
develop without concern of them being eaten by the Scooter or other
fishes as rapidly as they are produced. As such, it will benefit your
Scooter if stocked and maintained properly. Without such efforts, a new
aquarium is a grim prospect for a fish such as the Scooter, which
depends on live foods for a good percentage of its diet. Without a
steady supply of these organisms, it is really not a good idea to keep
one of these fish, IMO.>
2) If so, how should I set up my small fuge
(and the rest of my system) to maximize the copepod population and
otherwise best suit the Scooter?
Thanks for the help,
Jack
<Well Jack, you could utilize some pieces of live rock "rubble" (like
golf ball to hand-sized), piled loosely in the refugium. The course rock
will provide foraging and habitat for copepods. In addition, utilize a
macroalgae like Chaetomorpha in the refugium, which affords a suitable
substrate for small animals, such as Mysids, to forage and reproduce.
The nutrients and uneaten food from your display will provide sufficient
nutrition for the developing copepod and Mysis populations. To speed up
the productivity, you could "seed" your refugium with some animals from
an established system, or you can purchase "kits" of these animals from
a variety of e-tailers, which contain starter populations that can get
your refugium going. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>
Mandarin System 2/17/08
Good Evening,
<Jaime>
I have a 50
gallon aquarium w/ about 60lbs of live rock my tank I've had my tank for
a year now with
1 yellow head Jawfish
1 purple firefish
1
bicolor blenny
3 hermit crabs
1 cleaner shrimp
1 emerald green
crab
1 sally light foot crab
<Be aware the crabs are quite
opportunistic feeders, putting your small fish and shrimp at risk.>
1
serpent star fish and I just recently purchased the mandarin goby a week
ago, he's seems to be ok as far as eating. I got two things of copepods
when I got him.
<This won’t last long in a system this small, he will
eventually starve.>
My problem is at night when I shut my aquarium
light off he loses his color but after 5-10min of the light being back
on or the sun coming up his color is back to normal and he is swimming
around as though nothing is wrong. Is this normal or is there something
wrong with him.
<This is typical with this and many other fish,
nothing abnormal.>
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Jaime
<Welcome, I do encourage you to read regarding your livestock you
currently have, paying close attention to compatibility with each other
and your system. I have included three links to get you started. Good
luck, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mithraxfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/crabs/swcrabfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
Synchiropus ocellatus... habitat... lit. 1/29/08
Hi,
<Lance>
I have a question for you guys. What is the natural habitat
for Synchiropus ocellatus and other scooter blennies and dragonets. I
have done a lot of searching and have not come up with anything other
than "reefs and locations near reefs, lagoons and sand" depending on the
species.
<The principal "mandarin" species that hobbyists keep are
found within and on the border of Acropora stands... spiky, large
aggregations of arborose stony corals... Most of the "scooter blenny"
types are found on mucky/sandy bottoms, often about stony corals>
I
realize that blue, green, and spotted mandarins are probably found on
coral reefs only. But the typical brown scooter dragonet can be found
other locations, no? My main curiosity is if they ever find their way
into sea grass bed type settings as I am shaping one of my tanks into a
sea grass type biotope and was hoping to be able to include one of these
specimens in the tank.
<I have rarely encountered Callionymids in
shallow, "grass" beds... but there are so many species... see Fishbase:
http://fishbase.org/Summary/FamilySummary.cfm?ID=435
that perhaps
some do>
From my understanding, they are often found on sandy ocean
bottoms or in lagoon settings, but there is nothing on the internet that
I have found to be concrete in describing their natural habitat.
<Strange>
Is there a link to am importer that captures these animals,
where someone who can ask their divers where they are collecting these
creatures from?
<I have seen a dozen or so species in the wild... not
collected them... but when the mandarin types are out (near, during the
night... spawning) they should be easy to hand net... the others, very
easy>
I find it strange that so many of the creatures we keep in the
reef hobby have very little factual information on them in terms of
natural living conditions.
<Mmm, there is generally some data,
observation for "more important" species... commercially,
behaviorally... But not easily accessed (as yet)... in the "scientific
literature" mostly. Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/litsrchart.htm>
Thanks for any light you may be able to shed on this subject.
Lance
<Bob Fenner>
Quick Question on Copepods, culture/sys., & Mandarin sys.
1/17/08
Hello.
<Hello Pam.>
My first tank has been set up
for 8 months now. It's a 53 gallon tank with a 7 gallon sump. I have 55
lbs of live rock, and a shallow sand bed.
I've never noticed a
copepod population, and have only seen a couple amphipods over the
months (I've even looked with a magnifying glass). I would like to get a
population of copepods going for my Pygmy Possum Wrasse and Red Scooter
Blenny.
<I’m sorry to say your tank is too small to support the
Scooter Blenny, especially with any completion for food come from the
wrasse.>
I have a small section in the sump (about 4" x 4" x 6") that
I tried to use for pods. I placed a ball of Chaeto in there and a 6400K
spiral compact fluorescent bulb with reflector to light it (12 hour
reverse lighting schedule) , and added a bottle of Tiggerpods, but never
saw a population build in the display or in that section of the sump
after I initially put them in there. I also took some of the Tiggerpods
in a syringe, and put them in a small pile of rubble I put in the
display, where I thought they might hide and multiply. The Chaeto ended
up dying off in a few weeks, so that spot is empty again in the sump.
That's the second time I've tried Chaeto, and both times it died off. My
LFS is having a group buy on Copepods. To get started, do I need a large
amount like the bag of 2000 copepods they will have, or a small bottle
or two of 100-200 copepods?
<Neither really. If your tank is setup
to support copepod population growth, then it will grow. If not, adding
them will only create a temporary spike in population.>
I don't seem
to be having luck with Chaeto, should I just put rubble down in that
area of the sump, and put the pods in there or in the display or what?
<You may as well start them in the refugium area, but they will find
their way throughout the tank on their own.>
The area of the sump
isn't really large enough to have a Deep Sand bed. One interesting
thing....I can't keep Chaeto, but I have one mound of beautiful red
macro algae in the display that grows like crazy and I have to prune it
weekly to keep it from growing too big. The last time I tried Chaeto, it
only lasted for a few weeks, then almost disintegrated. The first time,
I think it lasted for maybe 2 months. Maybe the flow is too slow through
that section of the sump or the section is too small?? The Chaeto
doesn't roll at all. Thank you!! Pam
Parameters: Salinity 1.026 PH:
8.3 Alk: 8 dKH Nitrites, Nitrates and Ammonia all zero. Phosphates:
between 0 and .1 Calcium 390 Magnesium 1170
Temp 80f Flow: 25x
display size Display lighting 150w 10k Metal Halide and 4 24w T5s
<There is something going on in your setup that is allowing the red
macro to outcompete the Chaetomorpha in the sump/refugium. You mention a
spiral compact bulb, but what is the wattage? Many setups you read about
online have very small wattage bulbs on the refugium, making the light
the limiting factor. This is one factor you can control, give it plenty
of light. I have two 65 watt 6500K compact fluorescent bulbs lighting my
Chaeto. This makes the nutrients I am trying to export the limiting
factor. The Chaeto has better growing conditions than any algae in the
tank, hence it grows and algae in the tank doesn’t! As far as pod
population/production, you probably won’t see much with fish in a tank
this size that can wipe out the population fairly easily. Included link
regarding these fish below. Welcome, best of luck, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
Re: Quick Question on Copepods & Mandarin sys. 1/18/08
Thanks Scott.
<Welcome.>
I knew I couldn't keep a Mandarin in a
tank my size, but I didn't realize the Scooter Blenny was in the same
family (dragonette) until after I bought him. I thought Blenny's were a
whole different family. The LFS pointed him out to me as a good addition
(and they know my setup as I bought it from them).
<Common advice
from some LFS.>
I have seen him eat mysis when he can grab one before
my Coral Beauty gets it all. When I feed my coral, I shoot a few his
way, and have seen him eat.
<This helps.>
Not sure on the wattage
of the bulb, but I think the problem may be, that I have it on the side
of the sump, and the light has to go through the top-off water and 2
panes of glass before it gets to the Chaeto.
<Looks like the
culprit.>
I probably have to cut an opening in the cover on the sump
and put the light directly above the Chaeto. Thanks !! Pam
<Sounds
good Pam. You're welcome and good luck, Scott V.>
Dragonet Mandarin, Mandarin Care 12/19/07
Hi,
<Hello>
I
seem to have problems keeping my mandarins alive. The dragonet is
acting the same way my spotted mandarin did. He just lies in the
bottom of the tank without moving. He is breathing but seems to have
problems moving. He shows no sign of damage. We have a 110 gallon
tank, with a yellow tank, fox face, 2 clowns, yellow goby, blue
damsel. star fish, shrimp, hermit, and snails. All are doing fine.
The water is perfectly balanced, calcium and all is good.
<Numbers here, "perfectly balanced" means nothing to me.>
we do a
10 gallon change of water every week. Do I have to buy special food
for the mandarin?
<Not realistic to buy what it needs to eat,
needs lots of Live Rock to produce the pods that it eats.>
Everyone seems to think so.
<They are very difficult to feed.>
We have had the mandarin for 2 weeks now and it is still quite
plump.
Thank you for your help
Isabel
<Need more
information, how much live rock do you have, how long has the tank
been established, water parameters. Many possibilities here.>
<Chris>
Re: Dragonet Mandarin, Mandarin Care 12/20/07
Chris,
<Hello>
1. The ph, alk are in the norm according to the color on
the paper. (I cant give you numbers).
<Ditch the dipstick style
tests, they are so inaccurate they are almost worthless, get some
dry reactant type tests, they are much better.>
I have no
nitrates. We did have phosphate but it is now under control. We took
the water to a specialized store, and he checked for copper (none)
we make our own water using the osmosis thing., calcium (good ).
<Ok>
2. I went and bought some baby shrimp which I gave to him
right where he was laying, I did it twice so far.
<Did he eat
this?>
3. I have 95lbs of live rock in my 110 gal tank. We had a
45 gal; for over one year. About 4 months ago we replaced it with
the 110. We did keep the same water and live rock from the 45 gal.
Thanks,
Isa
<How long did the first mandarin last? Did you buy
them in the same place? Have you seen any of your other fish being
aggressive towards it?>
<Chris> |
Missing Mandarin… Once Was Lost But Now Is Found... comp.
10/2/07
Good afternoon Crew!
<Hi Luvebug, Mich here!>
I
hope everyone is well.
<A bit of a sore throat here today.>
I
unfortunately am missing my Mandarin Goby that I have had for about 8
months.
<I see you found in your follow up email.>
The tank is 40
Gal.., which I know is small for a Mandarin Goby, but he has done
extremely well since we got him. There is about 40 lbs. of live rock,
the tank has been established for close to 5 years,
<Excellent.>
and I often buy coral or polyp frags with lots of copepods for food as
well as the things that grow in the tank anyway, and he will also eat
the Mysis shrimp the other fish eat, so I don't think he starved to
death.
<Good, is a painful way to die.>
( The other fish being a
Scooter Blenny, Pajama Cardinal, Maroon Clown, Magenta Gramma, snails,
Hermits, a large Anemone,
<These frequently eat fish, particularly
slow perchers like Mandarinfish.>
a Bubble Coral
<These can also
eat fish, again particularly slow perchers such as Mandarinfish.>
and
a Pink and yellow Nudibranch.
<Nudibranchs are generally not suited
for captive care. They are often obligate feeders and may only survive
if one specific food item is present. They are generally short lived and
their death can bring about the death of everything else in the tank as
some are highly toxic.>
-So not all fish} Anyway, two days ago my
boyfriend cleaned the tank and did a water change, and took out the
plastic vegetation decorations, which he still has not put back. The
last time we saw Mandarin was during the cleaning right before the water
change, since then he is nowhere to be found! I've lifted up the largest
coral with all the hiding spots and turned it around, looked underneath,
etc. but he seems to have just disappeared. Usually he is very friendly
out in the front of the tank with no cover, and water changes and
cleanings don't bother him much, what could have happened?
<Guess
he/she made it into the filter somehow.>
Thanks for the help,
<Welcome, Mich>
Missing Mandarin… Once Was Lost But Now Is Found 10/2/07
Hello again everyone,
<Hi Luvebug, Mich here.>
Just wanted to say
disregard my question about the mandarin goby. My stupid boy friend left
the cover off the filter intake along with all the plants he left out,
<Now, now, he did clean the tank...>
so I found my little guy in the
Fluval. What a way to make my day pleasant!
<YAY!>
At least I
know I was caring for him properly.
<I would be concerned about some
of tank the tankmates as addressed in the previous email.>
What a
jerk!
<Careful, you're not living up to your name... ;) Glad you
found your little fish. Please consider some of the other potential
problems this fish might encounter in you tank. Mich>
Mandarin fdg. Mis- over-stocked nano 8/3/07
Hi Bob.
Love this site - thank you for this great resource! I have a quick
question regarding the Mandarin -
<Mmm, actually there are more than
120 Callionymid species...>
I know that you recommend a tank of at
least 100 gallons which can house sufficient live rock to sustain the
number of copepods necessary to keep the fish healthy for a prolonged
period. I really like this fish, and have been trying to research
whether or not he could be kept in a Nano if I frequently added live
copepods to the tank to replenish the supply, and, if so, if you could
suggest the best product/retailer for live copepods?
<Mmm... there
are some outfits that are starting to sell such... but I assure you...
growing your own is the only practical, cost-effective means...>
Also, if this won't work, is there any other live food that is proven to
work for this fish without fouling the water quality?
<Again... not
really/practically... too easy to have human nature result in loss...>
I have a 16 gallon nano with about 20lb of live rock and a 2" live sand
bed. Its current inhabitants are a very small cowfish
<... misplaced>
(I am planning on moving him to a bigger tank when he outgrows my Nano),
<Will be dead first... perhaps taking your other stock with it...>
several corals,
<?>
2 snails, 5 hermits, one coral banded shrimp
<... trouble. Stenopids are too predaceous to be kept in such a setting>
and a cleaner shrimp.
<Will be consumed>
In addition to the
Mandarin (which I will only add if I can resolve this food issue) I may
add a pair of clown fish,
<No my friend. You don't have the space
here>
but then I would be done. I perform 10% water changes once a
week and have an in-sump CPR skimmer, with the Viper 150watt HQI metal
halide clamp-on light. Thank you very much in advance for any advice you
can give me. Lindsey.
<I strongly suggest your starting a savings
program... ala Dale Carnegie... and buy a much larger system... You've
got the "pet-fish fever" (along with the rest of us addicts) that only
more useful space can alleviate (temporarily). Bob Fenner>
Re: stocking nano, Mandarin 8/4/07
Thank you
for your response. I actually already have 2 larger tanks at home - the
Nano is in my office, so a larger tank there is not really an option.
Clearly I will rule out the clowns based on your advice, and I will
remove the coral banded shrimp.
<Ah, good>
I am a little confused
by your comment that I am overstocked. I currently have only one fish
(albeit a misplaced cow fish),
<This fish needs a volume times larger
alone...>
two shrimp
<The CBS is trouble here...>
and snails
and hermit crabs. By way of corals, I have one frag of zoanthids (about
10 polyps),
<Too toxic...>
about 1/2 square inch frag of blue
Clavularia, a baby Montipora, about 4 polyps of Lord Acanthastrea and
two Ricordea mushrooms. I also have <she cringes in anticipation of a
serious trousering> a very small Goniopora.
<Yikes!>
the
Goniopora is on the sand and well away from all the other corals. I know
you feel strongly about these corals, and I can only say that I was
given it as a gift for my bigger tank at home and have imported it to
this tank because the clownfish in my bigger tank were messing with it.
I am sure you will tell me that its short-term demise is inevitable, and
I'm sure you are right about that, but all I can do at this point is
learn as much as possible about the coral and try my best to keep it
alive.
<And not add to problems I hasten to mention>
I am feeding
it liquid life BioPlankton and reef- roids and hoping for the best.
I
was also curious about the "human nature resulting in a loss" part of
your response.
<Mmm, "to err is human" sort of thing... It seems
(more likely absolutely appears) that our species (esp. in the west) is
bent of "acquisition" tendency... Consuming, buying, putting more and
more... in this case, livestock in any given container>
I am not
concerned with the expense of obtaining food for the fish, and if I do
get one, I will be committed to its well being - which is why I am
asking if -ruling out the cost- the fish can be healthily maintained by
purchasing food. I don't feel like I got a clear answer...
<Mmm, let
me try again: More than expense, food involved here... The physical size
of the world directly bears on the health of what we keep...
psychologically often more than physiologically. This tank's too
small... Is this clear?>
I don't deny that I have the fever, but I am
trying to be responsible (if you rule out the cowfish indulgence). All
that said, I have learned so much from your site and I totally
appreciate the tough-love
approach. The biggest lesson in my
induction into this hobby has been that LFS are seemingly universally
staffed by individuals who are either mendacious, overly optimistic or
well meaning but poorly informed - your site is a magnificent and much
needed resource. Thanks again.
<Ahh, just like presidential et al.
public elections... the "consumer" gets what they "pay" for/choose.
Thank you for your kind words. BobF>
Re: Mandarin stkg., fdg. 8/4/07
Thank
you. No Mandarin for me, then. Tank is too small :)
<Yay! :! B>
Sea horse tankmates... Callionymid in small system with a large refugium
5/17/07
Hello WWM. I love the site even though I just found it,
as I am relatively new to saltwater aquariums but I have a lot of
experience with freshwater systems, and reptiles and amphibians. Anyways
I have been reading a lot about saltwater fish and after many different
ideas for a first aquarium I have finally decided on a 29 Gallon Oceanic
BioCube. I would like to keep a mated pair of Brazilian Reidi Seahorse
and either a White Ray Shrimp Goby w/ Randall's Pistol Shrimp or a Green
Mandarin.
<Mmm, can, could be done... the Mandarin needs special
attention in providing foods... best for all for you to look into,
incorporate a "living sump", aka refugium here>
Now the fish I would
really like to keep is the Mandarin. I know that the site recommends
only keeping dragonets in aquariums of 100 gallons or more with live
rock, live sand and a refugium. I do plan to use live rock and live sand
in my BioCube. But my aquarium is still way, WAY too small. I have a 30
gallon? (not too sure) octagon aquarium that I used to keep tree frogs,
<Is it made for aquarium use... that is, to be filled all the way with
water? Not a thin-walled vivarium instead?>
I was wondering is added
30 lbs of live rock, some live sand, and some spaghetti algae if this
would be a good off-line refugium.
<Oh yes>
If you still think
this is too small then I guess I will go with the shrimp goby, which I
do think is quite interesting but the mandarin is the most beautiful
fish in my opinion, and if there is any other options you could think of
which would allow me to keep this species let me know. Thank you.
<It reads as if you are well on your way to a successful plan here...
adding, tying-in the 30 as a refugium with the 29 will do fine. Bob
Fenner> Mandarin hopeful, fdg., sys. 5/16/07
Hi guys, thank you so much for maintaining such a wonderful web site. I
bet you're tired of answering Mandarin questions, but I have another one
for you.
I am another victim of consumer ignorance. I had a 26
gal reef tank established for about 2 years when I decided I should buy
a Mandarin. I had poor internet service at the time and relied on
marine fish books for all my info. Looking back, I am truly shocked
just how little is said about Mandarins being hard to keep.
<Mmm,
don't be too surprised (I'm not)... many of the standard works on marine
aquarium keeping have been written by non-hobbyists... Folks with very
little practical experience.>
So I bought a lovely young Mandarin
and introduced him to my tank that housed a pair of clowns, a bi-color
angel and a scooter blenny (big mistake I guess since scooters eat the
same stuff as Mandarins).
<Yes. Most species sold as such are
actually Callionymids... Mandarin/Psychedelic Goby/Dragonet family
members...>
anyway I got wise to the whole situation a few weeks
after buying the little guy and wasn't surprised when his body weight
started to diminish. After weeks of close examination of the Mandarin,
I also came to notice that my scooter blenny was in a bad way as well
(sunken in chest area and bone showing a bit). At night when I turned
the tank lights off I could see TONS of copepods swimming around so I
was really puzzled as what to do.
<Some such crustaceans are
palatable, many are not...>
The pair seemed to
listless to give
chase to the creatures, even when the swam right in front of them. I
dosed tigger pods by the bottle, fed numerous frozen foods that were
supposedly Mandarin approved...
<If accepted... most specimens need
to be trained onto... many don't accept>
grew brine shrimp,
etc. He's stayed about the same. The blenny on the other hand gained a
lot of flesh and is now a very active feeder.
Well I have recently upgraded my tank. I now have a 50 gal (20 sump)
tank with tons more live rock and a good deal of sand. I know Mandarins
are recommended to have more, but I'm going to give it a shot. I've had
him for almost 7 mo.s now. Anyway, it's kind of funny, the blenny and
Mandarin are now 'pals' and the blenny seems to encourage the Mandarin
to eat the various foods I provide.
<Ah, good>
A few days ago I
caught the Mandarin with a huge piece of sponge (from the angel food)
stuck in his mouth. Poor guy took about an hour to eat the thing, but I
was happy to see SOMETHING going into him. He seems more energetic
about feeding now, and I know it's mostly owed to the blenny's
encouragement. I know frozen foods aren't the solution, but I think he
has more energy to hunt his real sustenance. My real question is, is it
ever too late for a starved fish to recover?
<No, never too late>
I like to think where there's life, there's hope, but looking at my poor
skinny Mandarin makes me wonder. The
blenny has had a complete 360,
but are Mandarins of less hearty stock?
<By and large, yes>
I
am starting to feel hopeful because of his recent change in behavior.
Well thank you so much for taking the time.
Alyssa
Schladt
<Do consider soaking all applied foods and the water
(weekly) with a feeding stimulant (vitamin and HUFA prep.) like Selcon.
Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>
Re: Mandarin hopeful
5/17/07
Thanks for the quick response, I'll stay hopeful for
now. I am setting up a refugium this week and wonder what you recommend
to seed it with.... I usually buy tigger pods, but am curious if there
might be a more readily accepted species?
<Likely so... but don't
think there is something/someone selling such specifically... Almost
always the mix of what "comes" from a refugium will suit>
The web
sites that sell them are no help!
Thanks again,
Alyssa
Schladt
<Just try some new/er live rock in the 'fuge... this will
seed/inoculate the sand substrate, produce sufficient life... Bob
Fenner>
Mandarin Question 4/16/07
Hello
Everyone!!
<Andrew>
I read through your site but my problem
seems to be an odd one. I have a green mandarin ( Sir Podley )who is my
36 gallon tank. I have had him about 15 months now and he is very plump.
However he only eats flakes food soaked in vitamins which is fine but
about 6-7 months ago I added a few bottles of copepods but he will not
eat them at all. They have multiplied and are becoming a nuisance! I
have tried to catch him and put him in my 125 gallon tank but I give up,
that should be an Olympic sport.
<Mmm, best to systematically remove
most all else...>
Can I put another dragonet in there with him or
will they just fight?
<Too likely the latter>
Is there anything
else that will eat them?
<All sorts... a small Damsel (my choice?
Mmmm... A Talbot's, An Allen's...) or tank-bred Pseudochromid... or...>
Thanks for the help!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner> Mandarin in a
Small Tank 3/30/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hi>
I have had a 30
gallon tank up and running for about six months now and the water
chemistry looks good. I have around 40lbs. LR, ~2in LS, some soft
corals, and a Lawnmower Blenny (Salarias fasciatus). <Nice.> All seem
to be doing well. I have no protein skimmer or other method of
mechanical filtration, I rely solely on the LR/LS, good circulation,
small bio-load, occasional ~5% water changes, and quite a large group of
Shaving Brush algae (Penicillus sp.). Nitrate is undetectable. <Ok> My
LFS owner has agreed to take my Blenny as credit towards a Green
Mandarinfish (Synchiropus splendidus). The specimens of these fish that
I have seen in the past have always had interesting 'personalities' and
I've wanted one for some time now.
Now to my question:
I know
it's recommended only to attempt to keep this fish in a very large and
mature tank, but what if I always had a fresh supply of copepods? <Can
be quite demanding.> My LFS stocks live copepods and sells them by the
cup. Would the Mandarinfish thrive if I were to add a small amount of
live copepods every week or so to my 30 gallon tank? <More often then
weekly, maybe 2-3 times a week, they eat a surprising amount.> The
Mandarinfish would be the only fish in the aquarium.
Thanks for your
advice,
Trent
<While it can be done I really don't recommend
going this route. The margin for error is just too small. Too easy to
underfeed in this scenario.>
<Chris>
Mandarin in a 20
gallon tank with a refugium 1/30/07
<Greetings, Mich
here tonight.>
I am looking into making a refugium for my 20 gallon
salt tank. I have a yellow striped maroon clown, bubble tip anemone,
blood red shrimp and coral banded shrimp. I would like to add a green
mandarin to the setup and that would be all I have in there in terms of
live stock. I also have about 15 lbs of live rock and live sand. I am
looking at the refugium both in order to increase the water volume
somewhat and to use it for the propagation of pods for the
mandarin. The refugium would have some live sand and rock rubble in
it. If I build the refugium with an overflow return will this be able
to move some of the pods into the tank. I already have a ton of them in
the tank but with the mandarin possibly being introduced I want to make
sure there is a renewable supply of them.
<I hate to be
the bearer of bad news here, but I just don't think this tank can
produce enough microfauna to support a mandarin (Synchiropus spp),
especially with only 15 pounds of live rock. Please reconsider your
choice. This fish will slowly and painfully waste away and eventually
perish. Even with a refugium it is highly unlikely you will be able to
provide enough pods to sustain this beautiful fish with such a small
setup.
Sorry to be so discouraging,
-Mich>
Future Mandarin 1/23/07
Would first like to mention how much
helpful WWM is to me. It has given me so much advice, that I cannot
compliment you and the others who work on the site enough for giving
such good information
<Thanks>
Now for my question. Atm my tank
has been set up for 4.5 weeks, cycled 10 days ago, and has 36 pounds of
Live rock, 60 pounds of sand, 4 red leg hermits, 4 blue leg hermits, 2
Astrea snails, 2 turbo snails, 4 Nassarius snails, and 1 Banner
Cardinalfish. In the future, I would like to add a Mandarin goby.
<Hmm...> I have read and know for some time, that these fish were
difficult to keep. <Quite> I really like this fish, like many do, it is
a beautiful and fascinating creature. I was thinking of adding him
during the summertime, around July or so. <Not enough LR or old enough
tank, probably too small too unless you have 36lbs of LR in a 100 gallon
tank.>
However, I want to make sure my tank is packed with pods for
him to thrive. What can I do to increase the pod population? <More LR,
more space, more aged tank.> I was thinking of adding more live rock,
and buying pods in the beginning to increase population and population
rates. <Would help some.> I was also going to add a hang on refugium to
build my pod population. <Will help too.>
Do you have suggestions
to prepare for adding this fish? I know that I have to wait a
long time, but now sure when I will be ready. Also, by that time, would
my cardinal be too territorial? <Doubtful.> And could I add a firefish
in a couple months? I figure with a cardinal, firefish, and mandarin, I
would be
overstocked. Tank has the Bak pak 2r protein skimmer and
bio filter, along with 2 strong powerheads, reaching 900 gph.
Thanks,
Joe
<You need around a 100 Gallon tank with close to 100
lbs of live rock aged about 1 year to be reasonably sure of success with
these neat little fish. As far as tankmates the cardinal and firefish
should be fine. See here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm for more.>
<Chris>
Future Mandarin Part II 1/23/07
Thanks for the reply. So is it
surely impossible to add a mandarin after a year with my 36 gallon
tank?
<Correct, with any statistically significant chance of
success.>
<Chris> Re: Future Mandarin, sys. 1/24/07
If this is true, that how have people claimed to keep mandarins in
smaller nano like tanks? <Of course there are a few exceptions, but the
vast majority die without anyone hearing about it. Out of 1000 attempts
if 1 survives a year does what does this mean?> They say that they have
taught them to eat prepared frozen foods. <Will help prolong their
lives, but few actually take to this.> I even saw the site for the
Mandarin Diner, if you have heard of it, which you probably have. <A
statistical anomaly.> Is this possibly but extremely rare and difficult?
<Yes, but not really difficult, mostly just luck.> Or are these people
just crazy :P. Unless they have some advancement for keeping these fish,
it doesn't look like I can add one, bummer. Thanks again.
<Unfortunately it is the exceptions we hear about, not the thousands
that parish even when kept in the exact same conditions as the
successful ones. Statistically the chances for keeping one of these
little guys alive over one year, let alone its natural life span, is
slim in all but the largest tanks.>
<Chris> Nano, Mandarin
and a HUGE refugium? 12/18/06
Hi, WWM
<Jon>
Great job with your website! I'm very impressed and grateful for your
advice. I'm thinking about setting up a system that seems to be
rare. I've scoured your website for examples but can find none. I'm
not sure if I've missed a post or my idea is so bad nobody would
attempt, or both! I would like to get your general views of the system
and help me determine, if viable, the size of the sump and amount of LR
needed to comfortably feed one Psychedelic Mandarin Dragonet.
My
idea in 3 steps:
Step 1:
Set up a standard 24 gallon nano marine
system, probably using an NC24 from
http://www.nanocustoms.com/ for good hood lighting.
Step 2:
Modify the NC24 so I am draining out of its overflow sump into another
sump.
Route the return from the auxiliary sump back to the NC24.
Step 3:
Stock the NC24 with some live rock and modest corals, crabs
and shrimps per lighting needs, size, water chemistry and one
Mandarin. Stock the auxiliary sump with standard protein skimmer,
heaters, refugium lights, et cetera. Make it basically a deluxe
sump/refugium. Place within it a LOT of live rock and light
accordingly.
Voila! What I think I have created is a nano tank that
can host 1 mandarin, who will feed off the 'pods that (temporarily) live
in the nano LR, plus all that get pulled in from the auxiliary
sump. Aside from hosting a mandarin, this system should have several
additional benefits: the "visual" part of the system is fairly easy to
maintain, i.e. not too much Plexiglas to clean, not too much "pretty" LR
to find and host, and no feeding the mandarin! All the water chemistry,
equipment, and 'pod farming is out of the site in a sump that can be
arranged for easy maintenance and upgrades without ever disturbing the
mandarin.
My questions to you:
Do you think this system is
viable?
<Yes>
If so, how big should I make the refugium/sump and
how much live rock do I need to feed the mandarin assuming no other
specimen eats 'pods in the tank?
<As large as practical... twenty or
more gallons for sure>
About how much time will it take for my 'pod
farm to stabilize and create a sustainable amount of 'pods?
<A few months>
I'm told a year, but that sounds too
conservative. Will the pods (and shrimp/crabs) need additional food?
<Mmm... yes... can/will get from feeding your main system, lighting...>
Cheers,
Jon
<Do take a read on WWM re Mandarin Systems, Marine
Plumbing (particularly overflows), Refugium Designs... Bob Fenner>
Re: Nano, Mandarin and a HUGE refugium? 12/19/06
Thanks, Bob! And, yeah, I did find a lot more information on your site
about Mandarin systems that are very similar to design below. I should
have waited another day before sending my query. I'm pleasantly
surprised the sump only needs to be about 20 gallons. I think I'll have
room for at least 60, so probably will (as you suggest) fit biggest
feasible.
Cheers,
Jon
<Ah, thank you for this follow-up...
Bigger would be better... but I might ask... as I assume others... at
what point does the sump/refugium become the main/display tank... and/or
vice versa! BobF> Mandarin sys., fdg.
11/28/06
Hello!
<Hi there from another Michelle!>
It's
yet another question about green mandarin dragonets. I know they need
sufficient live rock for an ample supply of copepods, <This is
true.> but am unsure if mine is enough. It's a 95 gallon with 90
pounds live rock. <Seems ok in theory.> Current
fish are a Naso
tang (we know she will eventually need a larger tank, <Yes, saw several
in Hawaii that were "scary big".>
yellow tang, and two Sebae
clowns. The tank has assorted corals, a peppermint shrimp, 2 sally
light foot crabs, and 2 green crabs. Is this enough live rock for one
specimen? <Many variables...how large is the current population of
copepods, how prolific will they be in your system, is there a refugium
connected to the tank, individual variation with the individual
fish....> Could the green crabs eat the mandarin? <Yep. I personally
wouldn't trust any crab.> How safe is skipping the quarantine
procedure in light of the need for live rock? <You could quarantine
with live rock in a separate vessel, you may need to add pieces of LR
throughout the QT period.> Thanks! <You're welcome.> Michele
SW... set-up... Mandarin Sys... 10/30/06
Hey there guys, new
to WWM and Saltwater here.
< Greetings and welcome to the salty side
of the hobby! Emerson with you today. >
I've been into FW for years
now and am just starting with SW via a 30 gal long (I chose long over
standard because there is more bottom surface area and it's shallower,
thus less intense light is required and there is more room for LR) I got
16 lbs of live rock in it and plan on getting 15-20lbs more. Sand bed is
3 inches but is "dead" sand at the moment. Okay so to get to the point.
< Good point with the long tank. The added waters surface area will also
help with gas exchange. Please research WWM for deep sand bed
information as they can be problematic if not maintained properly. >
1. Is it possible in SW to create a complete biological filtration
system via plants as nutrient export and powerheads for filtration as it
is in FW?
< That is what your live rock and sand will accomplish.
Bacteria will be converting the wastes, and these make their homes in
the rock and sand. >
2. Stocking all I have planned so far that I
want to do is a maroon gold striped clown, and a mandarin dragonet I'm
aware of their feeding habits, that's part of my next question) Do I
have room for anything beyond that?
< You will have a hard time
keeping anything else in a 30g with a Maroon Clownfish. This fish is
very territorial and will likely harass anything else a tank of this
size to death. A Mandarin is pretty much out of the question for your
tank especially with the clown. >
3. I apparently did a good job
picking the live rock I did get. I purposefully chose extremely porous
live rock in medium pieces. It has deep caverns all throughout it deep
enough to completely hide several limpets completely) When I checked the
other night my tank was SWARMING with amphipods as well as a lot of
other neat critters.
< I just cant suggest you place a Mandarin in
your tank with good conscience. 4 times the rock you have may support
one Mandarin in the long run. >
4. Finally what all of this is
leading up to, how long should I leave the tank alone without
significant fish/inverts to allow the ‘pods to really colonize and to
make the sand "live" to hopefully get some copepods so that I can
support a mandarin. It has NOT cycled yet so I guess the time required
after it does so.
< If you had a suitably sized tank with enough
live rock and sand to support a Mandarin you would want to wait around 6
months before adding it. Please read
http://wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm and reconsider your stocking
list. >
Sorry for the complex email with tons of questions, but
after learning my lessons with FW I'd rather make sure I'm doing this
right from the start :)
< Don’t be sorry! It’s great that you care
enough to ask. Read as much as you can regarding nano/small tanks as
well as fish compatibility and your transition to salt can go smoothly.
>
Thanks
< Most welcome and best of luck! >
Live Food Culture/Mandarin Systems - 07/13/06
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Paul>>
I have two questions pertaining to culturing live
food within the main reef aquarium:
<<Okay>>
(1) What live foods
are practical for culture within the main tank?
<<Depending on your
setup/livestock, some organisms can/will reproduce (mysids, amphipods,
copepods, various alga, etc.). Maintaining sustainable populations is
largely dependent upon allowing said populations to establish and grow
without predation in the early stages (i.e. - leaving the tank
"fishless" for the first 12 months), and then not overstocking the tank
with active predators of these organisms>>
I am looking for small
invertebrates that can thrive and reproduce in a reef aquarium with
Mandarin Dragonets or other fish that feed on them and do not require
phytoplankton or special foods.
<<The micro- and macro-crustaceans
from your live rock would fit this description. But you need a large
and "mature" system to provide enough food items to wholly sustain even
one mandarin for the long term. Just how "large" a system is open to
speculation, but my opinion is a minimum tank size of 75 gallons with
plentiful live rock and a DSB, and all not less than a year old>>
(2) What invertebrates can thrive within the same reef aquarium as a
Mandarin Dragonet and are prolific enough such that their larvae can
help feed the Mandarin?
<<The afore mentioned copepods, mysids, and
amphipods can all be "prolific enough" in a large enough system. The
key here is the size and maturity of the system. The tank/environment
has to be large enough that the mandarin can continuously feed as needed
without depleting the food populations. Something that usually happens
very quickly in a too small system. The addition of a "plankton"
generating refugium can be a big help towards keeping these beautiful
fishes (as well as other delicate or difficult organisms)...but in my
opinion should be viewed as an adjunct to providing a proper
environment...not a substitute for same>>
Thanks very much,
Paul.
<<Quite welcome, EricR>> Appropriate Mandarin home
6/23/06
I have read your info online about the Mandarin, but
wanted to also write you personally. I have been doing some research
online and everyone has different answers opinions, etc. <Yep> I am
going to have a 40 gallon reef tank, with the 24in Refugium you
suggested to me by CPR. Or If I need, I have a spare 29 gallon tank and
10 gallon tank to make a ref to make this work. I want to know if you
believe the mandarin will work in my 40 gallon reef? <Not big enough in
my opinion.> I've seen people online with them in their 7 gallon tank,
Which I think is cruel) 10 gallon, 20, gallon, then others in 100 gallon
tanks. I've read only keep them with 75 lbs of Live Rock etc. <I believe
100G and lots of rock is what is necessary.> I know the tank has to
mature about 6 months. <I'd go with 1 year.> I am willing to buy
copepods online if I need to. <Not really a good sustainable
method.> Or breed them. I don't know how long such a supply would last.
<A surprisingly short amount of time.> I just do not want this fish to
starve if it is at all possible to keep them. <Not in a small tank.> I
saw one individual online with a 40 gallon tank, 75 pounds of LR and
Live Sand and a 13X4 Ref. He successfully kept his mandarin healthy for
years with no problem. <There are always exceptions, but to count on
getting one is unreasonable.> So If possible, could you tell me how to
do this successfully, if it could be done at all? <The chances of
success in a 40 is small.> Doctors Foster and Smith say they suggest at
least 30 Gallons, then Another website About.com said at least 20 gallon
tank size. <Hard to sell a fish when the requirements put most people
out of the market.> I just don't know if these people are just trying to
sell their fish or what. <Yep> Can you please help? I am a dedicated
fish keeper and spend hours caring for my tanks I have now. I will do
whatever necessary to keep these fish. <Big tank, 100+ gallons, lots of
rock, appropriate tank mates.> Thank you for your time.
<Sure>
Gina
<Chris>
Mandarin Systems/Feeding 6/22/06
I have been doing
some research online and everyone has different answers opinions, etc. I
am going to have a 40 gallon reef tank, with the 24in Refugium
you
suggested to me by CPR. I want to know if you believe the mandarin goby
will work in my 40 gallon reef?
<Yes, with your refugium producing
pods.>
I've seen people online with them in their 7 gallon tank, 10
gallon, 20, gallon, then others in 100 gallon tanks. I've read only keep
them with so much Live Rock etc.
<Larger tanks are recommended (50
minimum) if live rock is going to be the only source of food for the
mandarin, and then only one should be kept in this system.
Smaller
tanks work well with refugiums producing a healthy pod population.>
I know the tank has to mature about 6 months. I am willing to buy
copepods online if I need to. I don't know how long such a supply would
last.
<Best to add the pods in the refugium at least 30 days before
introducing the mandarin. This way a healthy population will begin to
develop. The pods will slowly find their way into
the display tank
and populate the live rock also.>
I just do not want this fish to
starve if it is at all possible to keep them. I saw one individual
online with a 40 gallon tank, 75 pounds of LR and Live Sand and a 13X4
Ref. He successfully kept his mandarin goby healthy for years with no
problem. So If possible, could you tell me how to do this successfully,
if it could be done at all? Doctors Foster and
Smith say they
suggest at least 30 Gallons, then Another website About.com said at
least 20 gallon tank size.
<Both these sizes can work, provided a
pod producing refugium is in place. These size tanks with just live
rock as the only food source are not large enough.>
I just don't
know if these people are just trying to sell their fish or what. Can you
please help? Thank you for your time.
<Here is some reading for you
along with the related FAQ's above title bar.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm James (Salty Dog)>
Gina
Re: Mandarin Systems/Feeding 6/25/06 -
Hi,
<Hello Gina>
Sorry about that.
<OK>
Thank you for
writing me back.
<You're welcome.>
Do you think that refugium
will be big enough to keep the mandarin healthy? Do I need a larger one?
I have a 10 gallon tank and a 29 gallon tank not in use. I could
possibly make those refs. If the CPR 24in will work though, I'd rather
get it.
<The CPR will be fine. Do place some rubble rock in the
refugium and stock with a starter culture of pods. Do follow the advice
given below, in my reply to the original query.>
Thank you for
writing me back.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Marine macro algae, Mandarin systems 6/11/06
Hi
Bob,
<Sadanandan>
I have a 90 litre marine tank with live
rock....
My main aim to grow Caulerpa species of macro
algae.....(green type) I have two fluorescent tubes....15 watt SunGlo
(Hagen) and 15 watt actinic blue for the tank....
I have placed the
algae... at the top most of the tank so the are the closest to the
light....
<Most Caulerpa species do better "rooted" to/in the
substrate>
I just have a mandarin fish
<Hard to maintain
sufficient live foodstuffs in a twenty some gallon system for this...>
in this tank and a single damsel (yellow tail damsel)... and i am not
intending to add more fishes to the tank....
Is this light
sufficient to help the algae grow?
<Should be able to adapt to this
make-up, intensity, yes.... though I'd switch out the actinic for more
"white">
The tank has been cycling without fish for a month and the
two fishes are there for a month now. I added the Caulerpa yesterday
only.
Parameter of my tank:
Ph 8.3
0 nitrite and ammonia
10ppm nitrate.
What other parameters are crucial for lush marine
algae growth?
<Do need some other micro-nutrients (e.g. soluble
phosphate), sufficient and stable alkalinity, biomineral content...>
Do they require bright light?
<Variable by species... some do, some
don't>
One other question i have is the mandarin i have is a
female.. is it advisable for me to add a male mandarin fish the same
size or slightly bigger to the tank? Will the quarrel?
<... not a
good idea>
Thanks for your wonderful support for my previous
queries...
Dr. Anup
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
and the linked files
above. Bob Fenner> Mandarin/Diamond Goby
question 6/10/06
I have a question or two for
you. I have 110 Gallon tank, with about 90 lbs. of live rock. I am
planning to run the tank approximately 6 months to a year before adding
any piscine buddies; I really want to let all the critters populate the
rock and sand. Question; would this amount of time provide enough live
food to sustain a Mandarinfish (Synchiropus splendidus), without a
refugium?
<Likely so... with an absence of competitors>
Would
he/she eventually eat through all the pods, or would they have enough
space and numbers to sustain a healthy population indefinitely?
<Likely large enough to sustain an ongoing food population here>
I
suppose I can make refugium area in my sump, but I don't want to light
it since I tend to have heat issues and that is just one more source to
worry about. Can the pods grow fine in the dark?
<Many
types, yes>
Actually, it is not completely dark since it is in a
fish room and receives stray light from the tank above, but definitely
not enough "quality" light to grow any macro algae with. I can put some
aragonite sand and some filter floss for them to live in....would this
work?
<Possibly>
Last question; this is regarding a Diamond
Goby. Would that be in competition for food with the mandarin goby?
<Particularly when small yes. Still as a consumer of benthic, in-fauna
that give rise to other organisms with age, size as well>
When they
filter the sand, do they specifically target pods, or are they just
getting the detritus?
<Sift most all "large-enough" worms,
crustaceans, molluscs...>
Thank you for your time, it is
appreciated. Take care.
Paul
<Bob Fenner> Jumping
Mandarin - 04/20/2006
Hi, <Hello>
Sad morning for me
today as I woke up to find my mandarin fish dry on the floor. Some
people I know hinted that I was a bit laughable for taking such
events so dramatic, but I can't help it. I never thought that would
happen. The mandarin would be the last fish to jump I thought. I should
have listened
better to Bob Fenner (as I usually do) when he told me
that although some fish species are notorious jumpers... "Any fish can
jump out". Indeed. My
system is a 90 gal+30 gal fuge, 150lbs Fiji
LR, 5" sugar fine DSB. Very peaceful set-up (he was not stressed or shy
at all) and I did wait 6 months
before adding the mandarin. He was
in my tank since 6 months and still fat. Is it very unusual for a
mandarin to jump?
<Unusual, yes, but can be triggered by sudden
bright lighting, even electrical storms
at night when the lighting
is off. Being chased by a predator will often cause this but in your
case you state you have a peaceful tank.>
I do like the look of my
open-top. I temporarily ruined my budget by getting a Giesseman 230 plus
recently. It looks fantastic and the last thing I want
now is to
ruin the look by adding a huge sheet of eggcrate over the top. On the
other side I don't want to lose a fish again or endure the
stress/paranoia of always thinking a fish may jump and die any moment.
Arrgh...
I have been looking to find clear eggcrate but it seems it
doesn't exist. I don’t know if a net would look good. Probably difficult
to find one made of
clear nylon and to keep from bending. I tried
doing one by building a frame with Plexiglas and drill the frame each
1/2" to insert the thinnest fish
line but it didn't work and I gave
up. Maybe use some large clear fish net and fix it in a frame used for
window screens.
Can you give me an advice/point out a product
(manufactured for the hobby or DIY) that I could use to cover my tank
and that would be as close to invisible as possible?
<Might try a ¼”
sheet of acrylic with 3/8” holes drilled at 3” centers for air/gas
exchange. It would be unlikely if a fish were to jump that it would
hit the hole dead center.>
Thanks as always!
<You’re
welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Dominique WWM Crew Knowledge,
Mandarin sys. - 4/11/2006
I was reading some questions
about the mandarin goby in the Mandarin System FAQ's, and people were
asking about putting the mandarin in a 55 gallon tank, I agree on
waiting at least a year before buying one so your tank has time to grow.
I have 3 in a 75 gallon reef, so my question to you is, where do you get
your info from, what books do you read to find out about the mandarin,
are the answers to the public all trial and error from your personal
tank?
<<The crew here has an absurd amount of collective
experience. Many here have learned things the hard way, and are now
devoted to sharing the knowledge gained there from to others. That
said, I do not agree that a 55-gallon tank will house a mandarin for its
entire lifespan, even if you left it for a year first, nor do I think
housing 3 in a 75-gallon is responsible. Ultimately, we are just fellow
aquarists, who have experienced things 100 times over, and wish to help
others avoid our mistakes, and be conscientious aquarists. This is,
after all, the point, right?>>
Don't get me wrong I’m not being
hateful or anything but just wondering.
<<No hate taken. Enjoy
yourself. Lisa.>>
Thanks, Steve A Sound Plan
... reef stkg, sys. 4/5/06
Hi Crew!!!!
okay, I have been
researching, researching & researching...after all that, I have decided
to just go ahead and make the plunge w/ a 125g tank (55g refugium) to
house a green target mandarin....(I figure this project will take me
abut a year and a half, if all goes well)
I have come up w/ a list
of fish/inverts that I think will do well as community and would like
any thoughts anyone might have
Yellow target goby
Scott’s fairy
wrasse pair
Bartlett’s Anthias pair... (Will these be too
competitive for food w/ the mandarin?)
Lawnmower blenny
purple
firefish mated pair
percula clown pair
blue-spotted Rabbitfish
a toadstool or two for the clownfish
xenia
and some small polyps
cleaner shrimp
feather dusters
also, what should the depth of
the sandbed be?.....can I use silica and seed with live?.....and then
seed the entire tank w/ copepods?
I know that seagrass needs about a
6 in sandbed....could it be kept in this type of environment?....and
would it be beneficial to overall health of the occupants?
is there
anything I have missed that should be added?
any input is greatly
appreciated....is this too many fish?....any competing fish in my
list?....too aggressive?...thank you all ahead of time!:-)......take
care, Wendy.....ps, great site, thanks for sharing
<Hi Wendy, Ryan
with you today. Quite a plan you're concocting! If you're interested
in creating an environment that's targeted around a Mandarin Goby, you
truly want to eliminate as many pod-hunters as possible. The Blenny,
the Rabbitfish and the Clowns are all great choices- but as you guessed,
the others may out-compete, or worse yet, prevent a sustainable pod
population from forming if introduced too early. Long term, you may be
able to add these as your refugium matures.
Sandbed
depth is up for grabs. There are conflicting ideas as to the use of
them...In my opinion, either go with 6 inches or nothing! You're
welcome to use an artificial sandbed and seed it...But remember that it
will take much longer to mature. Check craigslist for people breaking
down reefs- Maybe you can find a steal.
I think you're
on the right track! Good luck, Ryan> Seahorses and
Mandarins 3/20/06
I've been researching and planning a rather
elaborate (if you ask my wife, she'd say "insane") system to sustain two
show tanks (although the more I get into it the more interesting all the
refugia I have in mind seem to be).
<<Lets leave your wife out of it
and stick with elaborate, eh? HA!>>
I currently have a 110 G reef
with moderate flow from a refugium and moderate light sustaining a
fairly diverse population of corals and a few fish including most
notably a pair of mandarin dragonets whose continued sustenance is both
one of the primary long-term goals and short-term worries in my
mind. They are not emaciated (the male was when I got him, and the
female, whom I obtained much more recently, was also a little thin; it's
hard to judge, but the male is clearly in much better shape 9 months
after I got him than he was when I bought the tank from his previous
owner) but I feel a need to constantly be monitoring the situation to
ensure they never get that way.
<<Your tank, especially with a
refugium should be large enough to sustain these fish, but tankmates are
a major concern, especially other 'pod specialists like small wrasses
and some gobies and blennies.>>
I have a 20-30 gallon refugium and a
sump under that tank right now, but this is a temporary half-measure. I
have a 150 G tank that I've drilled in preparation for its going into
service as the show tank for the mandarins and seahorses (I plan to have
a nice stand of seagrass in there). I plan to have the 110 Reef at the
top of the system, overflowing into one or two refugia of 50-55 gallons
each, and from there into the 150 G tank, to maximize the flow of food
items into that area for the mandarins and seahorses that have such
specialized diets (I will probably be buying captive bred
seahorses-unless someone is getting rid of wild-caught just at the time
I'm looking for my population-, so I know I can feed them mostly on
prepared foods if need be, but I would prefer to give them an
environment that feeds them naturally if I can). I think I will be able
to supply them a good flow of amphipods and Mysis and copepods that grow
naturally in my refugium now (and I only hope to multiply the benefits
by stuffing the larger volume of refugia full of rubble and sand), but I
wonder if I can add diversity and benefits for the seahorses by also
having a sustaining population of grass shrimp (Palaemonetes vulgaris)
in the 150 G tank. I know they will tend to prey on the amphipods and
copepods, but would you anticipate they would outcompete the mandarins
(or seahorses for that matter)? My research suggests the fully-grown
grass shrimp will be too large for the seahorses to eat, but will breed
and thereby provide the seahorses with a ready diet of juvenile grass
shrimp to augment the supply of amphipods and Mysis. Or will the
amphipods and Mysis be enough by themselves to sustain the seahorses
comfortably and I'm just making things too complicated (perhaps I do
like the idea of a diverse population in a sustainable relationship to
other populations)?
<<I would consider methods that will provide
more habitat for 'pods in the mandarin/seahorse display. While refugia
are great supplements, I would still suggest a fair amount of live rock
in the display to provide foraging area for the mandarins. I like the
idea of the shrimp to provide supplemental food for the seahorses in the
form of fry, however unless you maintain cultures of the fry using
phytoplankton, they will only serve as an occasional treat. Also, I do
believe that the shrimp may do more harm than good as a result of their
own predatory behavior. If you want to pursue this avenue, I would
consider dedicating the most upstream refugium to this purpose.>>
Will the mandarins also eat the shrimp fry or do they prey exclusively
on copepods (some sources I've consulted seem to think they'll eat
anything in the size range of a copepod, as I imagine a newly-hatched
grass shrimp might be, or even somewhat larger prey such as
flatworms-but I'm not sure I believe that, so perhaps you can fill me in
on the real truth!)?
<<Mandarins will eat prey other than copepods,
including flat worms in some cases. They may eat the fry, but again
this would only be an occasional treat.>>
Do you envision that I
will be able to keep a large enough supply of copepods coming in that
the shrimp population (which I imagine the seahorses will keep under
control, but will hopefully not entirely exterminate) will not sweep
them up before the mandarins can have their fill? I'm tempted to
believe that with 100 gallons of rock-stocked DSB refugia free of any
predation other than amphipods I'll be able to generate a healthy enough
supply of copepods to feed an army of mandarins (I'm exaggerating, but
you take my meaning!) and the grass shrimp will not make much of a dent,
since there'll be plenty of other things for them to eat as well. But
I'd hate to assume that would be the case and turn out to be wrong
(probably it would be hard to get rid of the grass shrimp once they were
established!).
<<Again, I would not rely on input from the refugium
and I would be concerned that the shrimp would be excessive competition
for the mandarins. I would restrict the shrimp to the most upstream
refugia. I am also not aware of what kind of marine shrimp will
reproduce as prolifically as you are describing.>>
I couldn't find
any discussions along these lines in the FAQ's. I wonder if that means
this is a great idea that's too elaborate for most, or a nutty idea that
needs to be killed right away! Thank you. Brad
<<I think it is
somewhere in between!! I think you are on the right track to want to
use large refugia to supplement the 'pod population for the
mandarins. On the other hand, it is very unlikely that even an
optimally functioning system with some kind of prolific shrimp will be
enough to sustain the seahorses. In the long run, you (and your wife!)
may be happier to try and keep the whole thing simple. You are going to
have to feed the seahorses anyway, so you may as well remove the
troublesome task of monitoring and maintaining a feeder
population. With plenty of live rock and a refugium, the mandarins will
take care of themselves. Best Regards. AdamC.>>
Mandarinfish behavior, systems... - 2/28/2006
Bob,
<Bill>
I've been in the hobby on and off for about 35 years and just set up my
first 'reef' tank a little over a year ago. (180 gal.) With the
exception of
a couple of minor problems everything is flourishing
partly due to the use of your Conscientious Aquarist book.
<Glad it
has been of use to you>
I have a question regarding my Mandarinfish.
I've researched it extensively and can't seem to come up with an answer.
This fish quite often emits a
milky colored substance from its gill
area.
<Yes... "mucus"... Callionymids are quite slimy...>
Before
being able to ascertain the area it was coming from I thought it my be
'wishful thinking' on its part thinking that it was spawning, but it is
coming from the gill area. I
was told by a not to experienced
aquarist that it was a slime coat of sorts that was expelled when the
fish felt threatened or stressed. Is this correct
If not, please
explain.
Thank you,
Bill Bush
<As far as I know this is
so... and not a big deal in a system of your size, likely make-up and
maintenance due to dilution. Apparently their mucus unpalatability is
their principal defense against predation... Bob Fenner>
Psychedelic Goby (A Dragonet) - 02/24/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I have been searching the site for several hours before attempting to
contact you guys. I have a psychedelic mandarin goby in a 60 gallon
tank who has plenty to eat (100+ lbs live rock and many copepods) and am
going to move him into my refugium after it is set up and copepods are
cultured for it.
<<I don't recommend this. The Dragonet (not a true
"goby") will quickly decimate the food supply in the refugium (defeating
the purpose of the refugium by the way) and subsequently starve. If it
is to have any hope of long-term survival it needs to stay in the
display tank with the live rock, and have its food supply
supplemented/refreshed from the refugium.>>
I saw articles where
people were saying they have Psy Gobies and anemones together and you
guys did not say whether they are good together or not.
<<They are
not.>>
Can I safely add an anemone with my little goby? I have
Aiptasia and he didn't seem bothered by it.
<<These fish can easily
fall prey to anemones...I don't recommend it. EricR>>
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