Pomacanthus arcuatus (Gray Angelfish) 3/28/08
Hi folks,
I recently had emailed you guys to ask about an adult gray poma that wouldn't eat. You suggested I try New Spectrum food, got some, it didn't work either. This angel is still in a 55 gallon quarantine tank, all levels are excellent - even the nitrates barely show up. Here's the thing, it has been over 3 weeks and I have not seen this fish eat anything. I have tried that spectrum food, mysis, brine, bloodworms, formula one, prime reef flake, Nori, smashed carnivore formula on a piece of coral - nothing. He swims toward things sometimes but literally moves his head out of the way. I have seen food hit him in the mouth - nothing. He is in a tank with several damsels ( they keep the tank cycled ) and a Hawkfish. They all eat like pigs and I was hoping the angelfish would learn from them - nope. How long can a fish go without eating or at least not eating in front of me?
<About as long as you have had him now, hopefully it is still alive.>
There is live rock in the tank but it doesn't have much growing on it besides I have never seen him pick at the rock. This is getting frustrating since I have kept several more difficult angelfish. I currently have a 7 year old Japanese Swallowtail and a 3 year old Majestic. I raised an Emperor from juvie to adult and actually gave him to a friend with a 220 gallon tank so he'd have more room, I had him for over 5 years.
<Great.>
In the last 20 years I have raised angels from juvenile to adult many times, had a pair of Coral Beauties for 4 years ( even spawned once) so I am no novice. And that is my frustration, why is this fish so picky and what else can I try to get a feeding response? I am out of tricks. I really don't want to see this fish die although he doesn't seem to be getting thin yet. Thanks for any advice.
<As you probably know, the Gray Angelfish isn't one of the easiest to acclimate, especially being adult size. Seems like you have tried all the foods that would entice him to eat, but unfortunately he is not. This is just one of those fish that refuses to acclimate. Probably too late now, but improving the purity of the water will sometimes trigger a feeding response. One of the best ways is by use of Chemi Pure in the system and/or frequent water changes. This has worked for me a few times. James (Salty Dog)>
Rob M.
Syracuse, NY

Gulf Angels
Bob:
<Howdy, morning>
I wanted to get your thoughts on this with regards to practicality,
methodology and even ethical considerations:
I reside in Pensacola, FL. Near the beach, and some of my SCUBA diving
buddies have become interested in my tank.  During one of their visits and
upon seeing my Rock Beauty proclaimed, "Hey, we have to shove those th9ings
away from us there's so many of them down there where we dive!"  To which I
replied, "Well that's about $100 worth of fish right there."  Well of course
what ensued was brainstorming as to how they could collect a few specimens
and sell them locally.  They also have seen Lionfish near Tampa Bay
supposedly.  Anyway, it would seem a simple thing to do to collect one or
two at a time and sell them for a decent price (setting up a dedicated
quarantine tank for this of course - not putting them in mine) thoughts?
<Well, a few things... the Rock Beauty doesn't sell as well as other Angels found there. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm as it doesn't fare as well in captivity... and the "diver pay" for this species is only about ten dollars... and you'll need a place to "hold" them (individually) for a while. Please see here re capture  techniques: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/collmarsdvg.htm
and the linked files (in blue, above) re barrier and hand-net collection. You will likely need these tools... and licensing from the State. Bob Fenner>

Re: Gulf Angels
Bob:
"Licensing"? Aye, there's the rub.
<Agreed>
Well I guess a visit to the fisheries
commission is in order then.  By the way - further investigations have found
the Queen Angels are also really common here.  I wasn't aware there were
guidelines for "diver's pay" my friends would get the for free and just
expect some of the profits.
<The Queens are "the kine, bro". They are your key to selling "all else">
I'll look into the licensing/permits issue first, then if it's not a
nightmare, I'll read up on the capturing considerations you forwarded.
<Not a nightmare, just the usual governmental bureaucratic wait, pay and make-smiley face game>
It's kind of a fantasy of mine to be able to support myself in this hobby
somehow - the idea that keeps coming up would be harvesting and selling
livestock, but I'm sure the investment in equipment would be significant;
not to mention a long time to establish markets.   
<Easier ways to do this... the service side is number one: installing and maintaining systems. Consider this (in addition?)>
I've also considered the maintenance end, even tried a simple website for
advertising (no bites yet) I guess it's just a tough business!
<Not really... takes some organized action is all... going out to existing and potential sites/individuals and pitching yourself... Really.>
Thanks for the insight.
David
<Glad to share. Bob Fenner>

Atlantic Pygmy Angel
Hey WWM Crew! You guys have one great site!
<Thank you kindly.>
I'm having some tank problems and I think you can help. My father is VERY big into marine reef tanks, and at 15 I'm getting in to them also. Sadly my dad had a heart attack and has mild brain damage, forcing him into a rehab for at least 6 months.
<I am terribly sorry to hear about your troubles. I wish your father a quick and complete recovery.>
I can take care of most of the tanks, but the little 3 gallon mini-tank is bugging me. It is the Eclipse Mini 3 Gallon. It's only resident is a small Atlantic Pygmy Angel, I'm having trouble feeding him. He was bought the day before the "heart attack". I'm feeding him "Ocean Formula Pygmy Angel Formula" and some lettuce on a feeding clip. He just nibbles on his food and goes into his cave. Is this species shy like him or is he still getting used to his new tank.
<I am guessing a little bit of both, shy and settling in.>
Any help I could use!
<Try instead Nori or Seaweed Selects in the clip and frozen Mysis shrimp.>
Thanks, Phil
<Best of luck to you and your father. -Steven Pro>

Telling Juvenile Sympatric TWA Angels Apart
hi i have two question for you!
how do you know if you have a French angel or a gray? as a juv 2'' big?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gray&fr.htm>
and how do i know my clown tang if fat enough?
<Please see the WWM site re Surgeonfishes, Acanthurus spp... Bob Fenner>
thank you Miguel 

Please Help! (trouble with Angelfishes of the tropical West Atlantic)
Hello MR. Fenner,
I apologize for bothering you, I can imagine that you are a very
busy man. But I have a BIG problem and don't know where to turn and no
one can help me figure it out.
<Never a bother my friend>
For some reason I can't keep Atlantic Angels. I purchased a
beautiful pair of French Angels about two years ago from a collector in
Florida. Before he sold these fish to me he put me through a thorough
screening process to assure these fish were going to a good home. I have
been in this hobby for a long time and consider myself responsible, and
knowledgeable, and I do my homework on the hobby (Great book by the
way).
Anyway I kept these fish in a well established 180gal. tank by
themselves for aprox. three weeks. Then it happened. It seemed like
these fish just self destructed. Within one night a bacterial infection
overwhelmed the fish. I immediately checked my water and ran a bunch of
carbon thru a canister filter, all test came out perfect. So, I called
the man that sold me the fish in the hopes that he could help me, He was
very concerned. He referred me to Martin Moe. I called Mr. Moe and spoke
with
him for a while about the fishes condition. He told me to get an
anti-biotic (I don't remember the name, and I couldn't get it anywhere
not even a local vet). So after searching for this stuff I called Mr.
Moe back and he sent me the medication. By the time I got it their eyes
were popping out of their heads, they had blotches all over their body's
and their fins were rotted off, the fish had both died. This infection
hit hard and fast. I'm sure this wasn't a parasite of any kind, it was
definitely bacterial.
<What a nightmare... good to hear Mr. Moe was helpful as always>
This situation was a real blow to us. I couldn't figure it out.
So I left the tank baron for a month or so. I slowly started to stock
the tank back up again with a few hardy fish. Then I tried to ad another
French Angel to my tank and three weeks to the day the same exact thing
happened but to only the French. A year or so passed and a friend who
owns a LFS got in a pair of Queen Angels that were about 7" long.
(pictured on my webpage) He asked me to take them because he didn't want
these fish to go to just anybody. I did, and Guess what? Three weeks
later they were dead.
Why does this happen to me with Atlantic Angels?
<I do suspect there is/are some serious stressor/s, problem/s with what the system consists of... the angel species you had/tried are actually pretty tough...>
I have an
Emperor that I have had for five years. In fact most of my fish I have
had for years now. My only losses were my Atlantic Angels. They were a
pair of French's, a single French, Pair of Queen's, Gray Angel, and a
Blue/Queen hybrid (all are pictured on my webpage). It is to my
understanding that these are pretty hardy fish compared to an Emperor
Angel.
<Yes, in general>
Now, as tempting as it is, I have to walk past any Queen's,
Gray's or French's with my head down in shame. I will never purchase
another Atlantic Angel again. Do you have any idea why I can't keep
these fish alive for any more then a couple of weeks? 
<Perhaps "it" is/was a simple lack of aeration (really)... this comes to mind as commonly fish tanks are much warmer than the waters these pomacanthids hail from (limiting gas solubility while elevating metabolism, need for dissolved oxygen)... I would test your water with the gear it was/is fitted with for D.O....>
What am I doing
wrong? Please help me figure this out. I feel like a failure and am
embarrassed to tell anyone how many Angels I killed. Any info would be
great. Sorry to take up so much of your time.
Take care,
Jeff Luberto
<Hmm, please do have the water tested... and consider adding more aeration/circulation... there is something "simple" at work here... We can find and solve it. Bob Fenner>

Queen angel
Hi BOB,
is it safe to buy a queen angel 3.5inch and French angel 3inch which is in my dealer shop. They had been there for two month and still look good.
<Better than buying such fishes when they first arrive...>
The other dealer has shipment of brazil queen and French angels two days time and which is more risky?
<Inconsistently better>
Can a coppered tank prevent lymphocystis? 
<No, more likely to cause it... by increasing stress... See environmental diseases parts of www.wetwebmedia.com site under marine index>
Is a blue angel 1.7inch and a 3.5 inch queen angel compatible if i introduce blue first my tank is 180cm(L) 60CM(W) 71CM(H)?
<Should be, yes. Bob Fenner>

White spots on blue angel
Bob, I'm not sure if I actually have a marine ich problem or not. I have a
125 gallon tank with a couple of fish and a small blue angel in particular.
The blue angel eats just fine and is very active and alert. The thing I have
been seeing is that the fish has small white spots on his body that look
like small grains of salt. None of the other fish are showing any signs of
this so I started thinking that maybe he had ich. The question I have is
that it seems that he has the spots in the morning but once I come home from
work they seem to be gone. I have live sand in the tank and have been
thinking that maybe it is just the sand sticking to his body when he sleeps
at night and that it just falls off during the day. The thing is that none
of my other fish seem to have this happen. I have a tomato clown that lays
on the bottom at night but never has any sand stuck on him. Is there
something with maybe the slime coat on the angelfish that causes this?
<It's possible... but more likely that this is some sort (maybe Cryptocaryon or no) protozoan involvement that is just as transient as you detail...>
Is there and good way of determining if the angel actually has ich? 
<The only sure-fire way... to remove the animal, make a smear-prep. and take a look under a microscope... I wouldn't do this... the transiency is due to a balance between the environment, the fish's health... Oh, do read over the "Three Factors that Determine..." piece and FAQs on the www.wetwebmedia.com site... all will be revealed>
He doesn't
seem to scratch on the rocks or anything, eyes are clear, and seems to act
normally. If he does have ich, what would you recommend as the best thing to do to treat it. I don't want to rush and treat it with anything if it
doesn't have anything but I also don't want to wait until it is too late to
do anything about it if it is sick. Thanks for any help you may offer and
thank you for your very informative web site.
Gialuca
<Ah, good question. I would structure your efforts from simple, less-destructive at first... escalating if necessary. For now, do place some purposeful biological cleaners... Lysmata Shrimp, Gobiosoma Gobies... If these don't swing the balance of health to your and your Angel's advantage (I suspect they alone will), we'll "raise the bar" to environmental manipulation (raising temperature, lowering specific gravity...)... and there are more drastic steps... but these will likely be unnecessary, and only mentioned here for future browsers.
Bob Fenner>

Help on A Gray Angel
Good morning Bob. How have you been? It is spring in Washington, DC. If you have time maybe you can help try to figure out what is wrong with this Gray Angelfish. We have had him going into the fourth week and up until last night things were going well. Yesterday his skin was blotchy on both sides and he darted madly around the tank a couple of times that I observed. Last night I netted him and gave him a freshwater bath for a couple minutes. I then placed back into the tank. His tank-mates are a Queen Angel and Bannerfish. Those fish look fine, no blemishes. This morning the Gray Angel seemed to have a normal breathing rate, but I do not know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, for your trusted advice. Mike
>>
Might just be a fluke (not the worms, something psychological), or maybe the Queen is giving the Gray a hard time when you're not watching... I'd keep a sharp eye on their interactions... In the wild these two tussle.
Bob Fenner

Re: Help on A Gray Angel
Hi Bob. Thanks for the quick response, you may be on target. The Gray is bigger by 1 1/2inch's in length and 1 1/4 in height the Queen is about 1 1/4 inches long and 1 inch high. So size is about the same and the Gray chases the Queen but to no avail so maybe he is frustrated that his aggressiveness has no affect on her or so it seems. I hope you are right, this Gray has been doing so well, I would hate to lose her to some sort of disease/parasite. I hope you are doing well? 
<Always, my friend>
Are you working on a new book? 
<Ditto, have a few "finished", looking for publishers>
Do you know if there are any books on Angels that have color pictures of the change over from juvenile to adult? 
<A few, look for Gerald Allen, his son and Roger Steene's latest all in one volume "A Guide to Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes". The best... Oh, and my latest, "A Fishwatcher's Guide... for the Caribbean Angels if that's what you're principally interested in.> 
I have taken up enough of your time, thanks for support and help. 
Mike
>>
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Re: Help on A Gray Angel
Good afternoon Bob. The Gray Angel was alive and well yesterday when I got home. He continues to eat well and will periodically chase the Queen. I hope his positive behavior continues I want to see him grow large and stay healthy. Can I buy your books directly from you. I like all the Angels but I follow your guidance and buy only the ones that you recommend as hardy. I get upset when I lose a fish since the majority of Marine Tropicals are wild caught. Thanks for your help. Have you been to Fiji?
Mike 
>>
Good to hear of your fishes improved health, behavior.
Ffexpress.com has The Conscientious Marine Aquarist at a good price. I do distribute A Fishwatcher's Guide... (they don't as yet) directly, you can find ways to order it on the site: Home Page .
Yes, have been to Fiji, go a couple of times a year. Very nice to visit.
Bob Fenner