Wrasse with clownfish disease? & Formalin toxicity/use
12/21/06
Hi,
<G' morning>
How many times can the same fish be treated with formalin ?
<A rhetorical question? Until it's dead? Likely only a few times I guess... is
harsh, toxic, and being netted, handled by itself is hard on this group of
fishes>
I have a dragon wrasse that showed signs of clownfish disease, I treated him
and he curled up and laid on the floor for a while,
<Typical, general after-reaction>
then appeared to get better and was swimming and eating. He still looked a bit
wobbly, resting on rocks etc so I treated him again. After this second treatment
<... you... did... or didn't return this fish to the same/infested system?>
he looks worse than ever. He is on the floor curled over most of the time,
although his breathing seems to have slowed. He came out this morning, swam
round once, ate some food , then curled up again under a rock upside down. I am
not sure if he is recovering or getting worse. I did the second treatment 2 days
ago but don't know whether to do another or just leave him to rest ? The clowns
had it too, before him, but are now right as rain.
I am a novice at this , so all help is much appreciated !
<Mmm, please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm
and here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm
and the principal linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Dragon wrasse hlth. 12/20/06
<Hey again, David, JustinN with you>
May I ask you another question?
<Absolutely, its what we're here for>
I have a dragon wrasse whom is very sick and I think that there is nothing else
I can do. I tried everything. A while
back I lost a lot of fish due to a defective heater. Anyways that has been fixed
but my dragon wrasse (about 6 or 8 '') wont eat!
<Mmm, not good>
It has been a while since he last eat, but I am almost positive that he is in a
irreversible decline. He has 2 clear spots over or around his gills. He is VERY
thin and also he has cloudy eyes.
<I agree that it doesn't sound good>
Every time I see him (which is rare) I always try to feed (even target feeding)
but he ALWAYS swims away. Anything I can do?
Someone suggested a fresh water dip for 2 minutes.
<I wouldn't>
I didn't do it cause he does not have ich or anything like that. What would that
do for him except cause any unnecessary stress?
<Well, freshwater dips have more use than just for ich, though I don't believe
this to be your problem here. How long exactly has it been since this wrasse was
seen eating? Do you have an available quarantine tank for more direct
observation? If so, my first suggestion would be to isolate this specimen in QT
quarters, then observe and formulate a plan from there.>
<Sorry for the delay in response, David. My wife has been quite sick the last
week or so, so I've been a bit occupied. I was hoping someone would get to your
query before I got back, but it appears someone moved it to my personal folder.
Again, I'm sorry for being so remiss. Hope this helps! -JustinN>
Re: Dragon wrasse hlth. 12/20/06
Hi There,
<David>
First of all Justin, Please don't give it another thought. Family comes first
at that is the bottom line. I do hope and take that your wife is
feeling better. I send you and your wife my best wishes.
<I thank you for this. She is, in fact, starting to feel better. Severe seasonal
allergies and subsequent throat infections are fortunately very treatable.>
In regards to your question. It has been at least a month or two!
<Yeeikes! Yeah, I'd say its definitely past the red flag period...>
I feel he is in a irreversible decline. Actually, I have not seem since I last
sent this email 8 days ago. Again, please don't feel bad. It is no big deal.
<Regardless, I am still sorry for your situation/potential loss. Don't worry, I
don't place blame on myself for such, just empathetic feelings.>
I do have a small 10 gallon saltwater tank in my sons room. I basically just put
water from my fish tank in his. anyways, I think he perished but he is known to
just pop out of the sand sometimes. If he does I will move him. How do you
suggest I medicate him? If any?
<I would not medicate him, unless when observed a specific condition showed
itself. Simply the controlled environment and easier access to feeding would be
my course of action.>
Do you feel he's in a irreversible decline?
<Unfortunately, I would tend to agree at this point.>
Anyways, my BTA is not happy, but I think it is due to the 100+ pounds of rock I
just added to my tank.
<Yes, likely some die-off from the rock additions>
Oh, what other affects do a fresh water dip have besides parasites?
<Parasites are the central idea around freshwater dips, indeed, however there
are many more parasites than Cryptocaryon irritans.>
MY regards to your wife,
David
<Thank you again, David. My regards to you and yours. -JustinN>
Dragon Wrasse (Novaculichthys taeniourus) Compatibility 10/17/05
Hello Everyone,
<Hello Valerie.>
George Bush once said "I know that the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
<?>
Can you tell me if a Dragon Wrasse and Orange Spotted Goby can coexist peacefully.
<It’s possible these two could live harmoniously but it is also possible that you could create “The Sand War.” As in both utilize the substrate in one way or another.
Should they become psychologically crowded due to insufficient surface area on the substrate it could lead to turf wars. In which case with its armory of teeth and size I would give the edge to the wrasse.>
I have a 75 gallon coral reef tank and would like to introduce a Dragon Wrasse,
<I would say you have 2 disqualification’s here that make the dragon wrasse (Novaculichthys taeniourus) an inappropriate choice for your tank.
First off the size at 12” makes them unsuitable to a 75-gallon tank and their behavior is unsuited to a mixed reef/invertebrate tank. Not only will this wrasse eagerly hunt down any crustaceans or smaller fish in the tank but they are also celebrated rock movers. The chance that they will topple or damage a sessile invertebrate is to large a risk in my opinion.>
however, I do not want to upset our Orange Spotted Goby who currently has domain over the substrate.
<I would advise against the addition of this particular species.>
Thank you for your time. Valerie
<You are welcome, Adam J.>
Dragon Wrasse.. umm Ooops 10/12/05
Hi Bob,
I think I did something stupid.
<Yes you did Matthew>
It looked really cute in the tank at the store .....
<Ahh, impulse buying, works every time. Need to research animals before you buy.>
We have two clowns, 3 chromis, 2 blue tangs, 1 bicolour blenny and a carpet blenny.
All fish are around the same size except the bi-colour which is small.
The dragon wrasse was the last added to the tank and isn't causing the fish any grief but has dealt with all the crabs which were living
in my live rock. I have a mantis/pistol shrimp (can only hear him) that has alluded him but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.
My problem is once he gets any left over crabs and shrimps I have a large feather star and some brittle stars. Will he begin snacking on
these? I have read this is sometimes the case with various wrasse species.
If I want a reef tank should I just be biting the bullet and return him to the
shop? I want lots of small fish and information on your site suggests he may grow to a foot and then start eating my smaller
fish.
We have only had him a week and I do like him as a juvenile but I don't wish to set myself up for ongoing grief and expense.
<They are aggressive and not reef safe as you already know. When larger they are known to eat some species of starfish along with crabs/shrimp etc. So, if you want a reef tank, he's gotta go or more losses will occur. James (Salty Dog)>
Dragon Wrasse In A Tough Crowd! 8/17/05
Dear Bob,
<Scott F. here for Bob tonight>
I'm asking you the temperament of the Dragon Wrasse. It is the only "X" factor
in this guy's tank, and we would like to know if they are very aggressive. So
far, his stock list is Goldentail, Harlequin Tusk, Dragon Wrasse, Soapfish
Grouper, Dwarf Lion. All in a 125 with a skimmer rated for 250 gallons.
<Well, I think that you'll need to pare down this stocking list in a 125. The
grouper and the Tusk are large, waste-producing fishes that need lots of space.
I can only speak from personal experience with the Dragon Wrasse. I had one for
years and it was a real hell-raiser! Not aggressive in that it chased down
fishes, but it was always "in someone's face", challenging other fishes and
generally acting like it owned the place. A real character. And these fishes do,
of course, dig like mad when they settle in for the night. Something to think
about!>
I've found your FAQs very helpful in the past, and hope you can be a help again.
<Hope that this information is useful to you...Remember, stock for the long
term; consider the ultimate size, needs of all fishes that you consider. Good
luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Bristle Worms
Dear Bob,
My boyfriend and I set up a marine tank about 2 months ago. Everything is going fine, but we've found that we have bristle worms. We made traps and
we are starting to get rid of them, yet we have found that we have a fire worm, it's huge! I just wanted to ask, we have been told that if we get a
dragon wrasse that it will eat the fire worm, is this correct? Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to reading
your reply. Amanda Brown
>>>Hey Amanda,
Why are you so intent on getting rid of bristle worms? Did someone tell you they're harmful? Bristle worms are harmless and are beneficial to your system as they process uneaten foot
items and other organic matter. As far as the fireworm goes, you can never guarantee that one critter will eat another, it just doesn't work that way. A dragon wrasse is a large fish, and something of a commitment in a tank, not something to get just because it might eat a worm. You neglected to tell me how large your tank is, but dragon wrasses need a 100 gallon tank or so long term. In the short term you can get away with 72 gallons or so.
Good luck
Jim<<<
- Dragon Wrasse -
Hi,
<Hello, JasonC here...>
My retailer of choice is in the middle of moving and I bought a new fish from
them with no one to talk to. Now I am afraid to put it into my tank
without a little encouragement from someone who has a clue. Can you
tell me if a dragon wrasse will work out with a Yellow Tang, a Midas blenny, a
couple of damsels and a brittle star? <Only while it is very small... these
fish grow to about a foot, and have a huge appetite requiring meaty foods.>
Oh, there are some shrimp in the tank as well (cleaner, fire and camel). Also
one Sally lightfoot crab. <Both the shrimp and the crab would eventually
become lunch.> Please help, the poor guy is floating in his bag with no place
to call home. <Don't leave it in the bag too long, but do consider returning
it when your fave store reopens, I don't think it will be a good long-term
occupant for the mix you describe. More about Dragon Wrasses here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/razorfshs.htm
>
Thanks,
Eve
<Cheers, J -- >
Dragon Wrasse
Hi Bob
<<Actually, it's JasonC this time - Bob has gone away diving again... imagine that.>>
I am really sorry to have to bug you again, but something has happened in my tank today that is really haunting me and I have no idea who else to ask.
3 Days ago I introduced a Dragon Wrasse to my 135 Gallon aquarium, it is a juvenile and looks exactly like the picture you have WWM. I had him quarantined for 3 weeks and he was very healthy. The first 2 days he was very happy,
didn't bother any of the other fish and nobody bothered him. This morning when I switched on the lights I was greeted with a horrifying sight. The dragon wrasse has a big pinkish "wound" in the middle of his dorsal fin, part of his dorsal fin is gone and it looks almost as if something has been biting him. The fish seemed to have lost his ability to swim properly and he was frantically darting around in circles, bumping with his face into rocks etc. He would crash into the sand and lie there breathing with his gills and mouth wide open and every now and again he would make spastic darting movements, it almost looks as if he has been
poisoned or something. At the moment I have him in a small fish net breeder, but I have no hope and sadly I think he wont survive the night. I just cant figure out what has happened and I feel embarrassed of the fact that this specimen was happy and healthy at the my supplier for months and dead within days in my care. I
don't have a clue what could have happened here and I'm hoping that something in here might sound familiar to somebody out there. <<Do at least try and place it back in quarantine - perhaps will at least get some peace and quiet there. Let's check out the list of suspects.>>
This is what else I have in the tank:
Fish: 1xPowder Brown Tang (Japonicus), 1 Dwarf Angel Centropyge flavipectoralis, 2 x Tomato Clowns, 5 x Chromis and 1 x Midas Goby.
Inverts: 1 x Condylactis Anemone, 1 x small hermit crab, 4 x Turbo Snails, 1 x Sandsifting Starfish (about 5cm across), 1 x Cleaner Shrimp
3 Extraordinary things have happened since I have introduced the Dragon Wrasse:
1. On the first day he pulled some kind of hairy worm out of the live rock and ate it. <<No
surprise there... this is what they do in the wild.>>
2. Yesterday he chased a piece of food towards the overflow and got stuck against the egg-crating there for a couple of second because of the suction,
didn't look very harmful. <<And not used to it either - as long as it could get away under its own power, I wouldn't be too concerned about this.>>
3. I think my coral sand was maybe not deep enough, because for the past 2 nights he has been sleeping on top of the sand, instead of beneath it, lying there on his side. <<Or may not be fine enough - too rough perhaps.>>
This morning I saw some of the other fish "picking" at his wound, but I'm not sure if any of them could have caused the wound in the first place. <<Oh sure - I would suspect that tang, actually.>>
- Could the starfish have possibly caught him while he was sleeping on the
substrate ? <<A sand-sifter? Doubtful.>> Or did something else maybe attack him in the night while he was sleeping, <<Or right before lights out/on.>> like the hermit crab ? <<Again, doubtful.>> (who have never come close to any of the other fishes)
- Did he possibly get caught in the anemone or something? <<Possible, but if that was the case, we'd most likely be trying to solve the mystery of the vanishing wrasse.>>
- Could any of my other fish have hurt him this much ? (I would have thought it would be the other way around, and he was
definitely not smaller than the other fish) <<Yes - that tang has two razor sharp scalpels at the start of the
caudal fin...quite a
formidable weapon that they can wield with expert precision.>>
- A wild idea, but is it possible that this fish was somehow poisoned? Maybe by the strange worm he ate, the anemone or something. <<Doubtful.>>
I can't think of anything else here. My water conditions have been excellent for weeks and all my other fish are healthy and peaceful.
If any of this sounds familiar, or if you have any ideas whatsoever, I would appreciate it greatly.
Kind regards, Chris Cronje
PS. I'm sad to say that the Dragon Wrasse has died since I started typing this letter.
<<Ohh... sorry to hear of your loss. Tangs can be quite territorial and I
have gotten rid of more than one that hassled other tank members to death. Especially because this fish was "the last one in" - territories are already established. Not really uncommon at all. Again, sorry to hear of your loss. Cheers, J -- >>
Re: Dragon Wrasse
Hi Jason
<<Hi.>>
Thanks for the reply. As a matter of fact, it was the Tang that was picking at the wrasse's wound, and I have seen him "hitting" new tankmates with his tail before, but he's never done any damage before as far as I know. <<Sometimes those wounds can be hard to see... keep your eye on that tang.>>
Thanks again for your reply, at least I have 1 suspect now :) Cheers, Chris
<<Cheers, J -- >>
Dragon Wrasse
I have a dragon wrasse which has always been extremely shy of people and
foreign objects. I've always had to be careful feeding him.
<Typical for this species>
anyway I just had a net in the tank and it accidentally breezed by him. the fish
FREAKED out. I quickly got the net out of the tank and shut the lid... after he
cruised around the tank hitting himself on the glass he turned upside down with
his gills fully extended... I turned out the lights all around him and in his
tank.. he now retracted his gills and is breathing but laying on his side... any
idea what happened or what to do? I checked water. it checks out. I did have
some phosphate absorber in his filter for the past few weeks. but other than
that. nothing out of the abnormal. had him for a few months now.... I don't know
what to do...
<Just try to be more directed, steady in doing anything in this tank...
always wait till the lights have been on a while, the fish out and about from
sleeping before moving anything in the tank... if possible, practical, do add
some livestock (maybe an outgoing Damsel or two) to the system to help
"train" this Wrasse to be more out and about, bold in turn. Bob
Fenner>
Re: DRAGON WRASSE
Sorry to say that he didn't make it overnight...
now that I think about it. when I disturbed him he was asleep so to speak
under a rock. I must have really frightened him
thanks for the advice
<Sorry to read of your loss. Bob Fenner>
Where did that fish go?!?
Hello, <Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob is away>
I purchased a dragon wrasse for an all Hawaii system today and think
something terrible happened. I don't know where he is and have one small
lionfish and one snowflake eel that may be the culprits. I have read that they like to bury.
<absolutely do not give up yet... I have seen this species bury in the sand/ disappear on arrival and not show face for as much as two weeks!>
This was a juvenile specimen and I may get a:
lunar wrasse <aggressive and grows too large>
coris <many are delicate or passive>
or another yet bigger dragon wrasse <perhaps... but wait a little more>.
It would be wonderful to get your opinion. Other tankmates include Chevron tang <magnificent fish!!!>
3 blue damsels, baby Picasso (with no back tail) and the previously mentioned eel and lion fish.
<until you train your lion to feed on frozen food, but sure to enrich (Selcon soak/inject) or gut load prey
Thanks for any advice you may give, Jake
<Good luck, bud...let us know when <wink> your wrasse appears. Anthony>
Oops! Here he is!
I LOVE YOU GUYS,
<Jake...we love you too...in a manly "Go Steelers" sort of way. Anthony>
My wrasse (the Hawaii tank) appeared this morning and he is fine.
<excellent... you could have bet money on it. Those little devils love to get your blood pressure up. Hold on to that fish and grow it up well...they are magnificent as adults. Be sure to treat him regularly with feeder ghost/grass shrimp when it is old enough>
Thanks, paranoid Jake.
<you are welcome. catholic Anthony>
My dragon wrasse, stocking, scavengers...
Dear Mr. Fenner:
I hope you are off to a Happy New Year! I emailed you before about my spiny
box puffer, maroon clown fish, and dragon wrasse. I feed them Formula One
Brine Shrimp plus. I have an ammonia tester which is still in yellow so
there must not be much uneaten food.
<Don't rely on just one such "tester"... the best assay of what's going on in your system is your careful observation of your
livestock's' behavior...>
I noticed that for the past 2 days after eating my dragon wrasse will swim
upside down as if he is full. His belly appears swollen and I wondered if I
should put in only 1/2 a cube instead of the whole one.
<A good idea... and I would vary this diet with other meaty foods, bite-size... even "human-intended" seafood like shrimps, clams...>
It seems he greedily
runs to snatch away food from the clown.
<Yes... a good idea to train, feed "simultaneously" at opposite ends of the system...>
My puffer eats Krill-e most of the time 2-4 pieces a day. I have been
feeding 1 cube of frozen Formula one and then 1/2 a cube 6-12 hours later.
Should I feed only once a day?
<With this mix of fishes, probably fine>
I feed the Puffer 2 Krill-e at a time twice daily. I have a friend that only
feeds his fish every other day. Would that be better for the wrasse?
<Yes, if it is over four inches or so in length>
I read
that the clown and wrasse should eat at least 2 times a day but I certainly
do not want to overfeed either.
<Agreed>
I added 2 snails to the tank to eat algae and then I read in your book that
an urchin would possibly be a better choice.
<I am surprised the puffer and wrasse haven't eaten them>
The puffer hasn't eaten the
snails and they usually stay away from the fish. (2 turbo snails in a 55
gallon) I wondered if the puffer or wrasse would harm an urchin.
<If hungry, yes>
Do urchins usually live long? My local pet shop "The Bermuda Triangle" says
they only get urchins in on live rock and would save me 2 back (hopefully
purple ones) but that they don't live long. What would you recommend?
<Please see the various parts of WetWebMedia.com here: under "urchins", "marine scavengers"...>
OK... I apologize because I know there are about a million questions here but
I promised my friend I would ask one more. :)
He has the purple lobster that he will give me later when I establish a new
tank. It is in a 37 gallon with a tomato clown and percula clown. He never
really sees it. It hides under rocks and also doesn't seem to make tracks
along the coral. He feeds it the same formula one and alternates with squid.
He says the lobster has molted once and that by moving the rock, he sees it
is still alive. Is there anything in particular he could do to make this
world a happier place for the lobster to feel enough courage to come out and
say hello?
<Lower the lighting, increase water circulation, use activated carbon once a month, check the alkalinity, biomineral content of the water...>
Thanks so very much for your time and patience in these matters. Any advice
will be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Kelli
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>
A 55 gallon tank
Hiya! :)
<Hello there>
I have a 55 gallon tank with a spiny-box puffer, maroon clown fish, and I
just added a dragon wrasse yesterday. I wanted to make sure that this is a
good combination.
<Good, but feisty!>
The wrasse tends to hide under the sand. I did see him
eat, however, and I have seen him play at different intervals throughout the
day. How long is too long for him to be under the sand?
<Days. This species tends to hide less as time goes by>
I have a friend who is keeping a purple lobster for me and I wondered if it
would be okay to add the lobster to the fish I already have?
<Mmm, no... the Puffer and Dragon Wrasse will be racing to see who gets to eat it first... if not immediately, at some vulnerable, exposed point... like a molt>
I know that the
wrasse hides in the sand and I have enough rock to protect the lobster from
the puffer, but will the wrasse and lobster live in harmony?
<Not indefinitely>
What is the appropriate length of time that I should wait to add the lobster
to the system since I just added the wrasse yesterday?
<...>
Sorry so many questions! I love your site!
<Me too! Thanks>
Thanks for your time and patience in this matter. Any advice will be greatly
appreciated.
Sincerely,
Kelli
<Perhaps Santa Claus will be bringing you another system... sounds like you're already ready for one! Bob Fenner>
Dragon Wrasse
Hi Bob, I purchased your book in hardcover and it was long worth the wait!
<Very enjoyable to hear/read>
I do have a question about a Dragon Wrasse that I recently purchased. In your book you have a remarkable picture of this
specimen but little about it's behavior specifically. Understood if you went into depth about every species of fish you have written an encyclopedia!
<Please read about this species on our site www.WetWebMedia.com under the family Labridae, species Novaculichthys... Out on holiday now or I'd specify the link>
It is mentioned that some species do get along with invertebrates and corals and some do not. This fish is approx. 2 inches long and houses with 2 anenomes, bubble and
Candycane coral. He doesn't seem to bother them, yet, but do you know if this is a specific characteristic? I have researched the internet and found quite a difference of opinions so am looking for you as final and deciding factor.
<Is a rambunctious species with growth... okay with what you list>
Also, please sometime in your lifetime consider writing a book just on invertebrates. The amount of material available to the average
aquarist seems very limited and your influence has a great impact on hobbyists!
<Thank you even more for this... will do so.>
Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Respectfully,
Tamara Jorgensen
<Amazingly a joining of names of a friend and folks I bought a home from in San Diego... Bob Fenner>
Re: Dragon Wrasse. thank you
As always, thank you for your prompt response and enjoy your deserved holiday!
Respectfully,
Tamara Jorgensen
<Ah, hope to "get" some photos for future articles, bits on WWM. Wish you were here as the saying goes!
Bob Fenner>
Wrasse feeding habits
Dear Mr. Fenner -
I am located in the Marshall Islands and am working on children's science books in connection with the Dept. of Education. One of the books is on how local fishes feed. In the course of researching topics, I came across your very interesting discussion on Hawaiian fishes, which made me hopeful you could help me with what should be a straightforward question.
<Okay>
How does the dragon wrasse or Rockmover wrasse actually move rocks? Does it pick them up with its mouth, or nudge them away with its head?
<Have actually observed both behaviors, in the wild and captivity.>
After moving a rock, if it exposes a crustacean, worm, etc. to eat, does it immediately go for the prey or does it work in teams?
<Have observed the species (Novaculichthys taeniourus) in pairs, and sometimes do appear to be "helping" each other discover food items>
Any information you might have would be most helpful. If you could refer me to an image of any sort that I could refer to in doing the illustration, this would be exceptionally great.
<The ones of a juvenile and an adult on our site can be found at: http://wetwebmedia.com/razorfshs.htm
If you would like to see others, let me know>
Thank you very much,
Nancy Vander Velde
RMI Biodiversity Consultant
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>
Re: wrasse feeding habits
Thanks for your quick response and the information. It is most helpful. I
also checked out the website you suggested, which was likely quite good.
Hopefully I will be able to also find this species in the wild when
snorkeling and see some for myself as well.
<Ah, good... and you assuredly will... seek them in the shallow, inner reef flat... over sand... Novaculichthys can often be attracted by knocking, scrubbing two stones together underwater... a useful technique for underwater photography of a few species. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Nancy
Wrasses and supplements
Bob,
I've gotten a lot of tutelage from your website and the FAQ's over the past
several months. Great job to you and all those involved.
<Outstanding. Thank you>
I've read about
various wrasses in the FAQ's and CMA and I still can't find much about the
suitability of Dragon Wrasses in the reef aquarium.
<Most folks in the know vote "no"... for Novaculichthys... get too big, rambunctious... do eat all sorts of snails, crabs, hermits, shrimps...>
I saw the picture in CMA
and wanted one from the time I began my latest reef in a 55 gallon several
months ago. Now my LFS has a healthy Dragon Wrasse and I would like to have
it as my own. I'm curious, though, if they nibble at corals and other fish.
<Not so much these... unless the fish are very small, the wrasse very hungry>
In my tank I have Green Star Polyps, a couple of Condylactis (which love and
are loved by the two Clarkii's I have in there), masses of Caulerpa, sponges,
a Bubble Coral and various SPS corals that came on the live rock. Aside from
the Clowns and a Common Cleaner Shrimp, the other fish are one Yellow Coral
Goby and a Yellow-Headed Jawfish.
<The Jaw may not be too happy sharing the bottom... but will likely get along... the shrimp may well be consumed in the long haul.>
I plan to get either a yellow or purple
Tang as I round out my fish stock. Would the Dragon Wrasse, in your opinion,
fit?
<I give you about 50:50 odds... it will get larger than a fifty five will be able to keep happy.>
Also, all of the above are looking healthy and growing slowly but steadily.
In spite of this, my LFS suggests adding a two stage supplement like Restore
and some iodine. I'm skeptical of sales pitches.
<Me too...>
I do 10% water changes
religiously on a weekly basis and I figure that restores the trace elements.
<For what you have... very likely yes>
I've read over the FAQ's and what you have to say about supplementation in
CMA. Still the question persists: With a fairly low bio-load and good
skimming, do I need to add a supplement if I don't see any slow melt downs?
<No, not necessary... and in many/most cases not advisable... more troubles are caused by mis- and over- supplementing than lack thereof>
I use Instant Ocean now and I am thinking of switching to Reef Crystals because
I understand it has more necessary trace elements. I very much appreciate
your time. -Dan Evans
<And I appreciate yours. I wouldn't switch unless the one was "more on sale". Bob Fenner>
Dragon Wrasse
Hi Robert,
I just bought a Dragon Wrasse last week Monday. After the first day
I got it, it was doing fine. It would come out on it's own from the sand and
swim around. When it was out I would feed it live brine, which it happily
took. This behavior lasted all the way till Friday. But on Saturday and
Sunday it never came out. So I went to look for it and I found it. I didn't
look to good. It looked like it was going to die. It was strange. It's
strange because all my other fish are doing fine. (Two Blue Damsels, Domino,
and Tomato Clown). Do you know what might of caused this sudden death?
<Was it dead? Did it actually perish? Perhaps it just looked bad from your "waking it up"... Please read over the materials on the genus Novaculichthys (the genus of this Wrasse) on our site:
www.WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Tyler
Help Dragon Wrasse keeps dying
Dear Mr. Fenner,
First I would like to say what a great site you have, I have found your advice
to be very helpful and life saving at times.
<Very good to hear>
Now for my question. I have run into a problem that is about to drive me
absolutely crazy. I would like to keep a Dragon Wrasse and have had four over
the last 12 months and they have all died within four to 8 days. I thought I
knew why, but after my last one died this morning I'm not so sure anymore. Any
ideas or thoughts you might have would be greatly appreciated.
<Hmm>
Now for a little background.
My original tank was a 55 gallon quasi-reef tank. (ie I don't have any corals
really and a small number of inverts). My original tank sprang a leak and I
replaced it with a clear life 70 gallon acrylic.
My tank is currently as follows:
70 Gallon Acrylic
LifeReef LF-150 Trickle filter (separate pump 1050 GPH, 6 foot head)
3 filter cylinders 1 not used 1 filled with carbon, 1 filled with Phosguard
LifeReef 36" Venturi Protein skimmer, (separate pump)
Coralife grounding probe
4 48" standard fluorescent tubes 2 actinics and two whites with reflector
submersible heater
Additives used:
Salifert Calcium
Salifert Strontium
Salifert Iodine
Aquarium Systems Sea Buffer
Weiss Coral Vital
Foods:
Silver sides - frozen
Brine shrimp - frozen
Krill - Frozen
Formula One - Frozen
Formula Two - Frozen
Tubifex worms - Freeze dried
Formula one - flakes
Fish pellets
Plankton - Freeze dried
Phytoplankton - Liquid
Roto-rich liquid invert food
<Yum, what a selection>
Animals
1 Yellow tang
2 True Percula Clowns
1 Diamond Goby
1 dwarf lionfish
1 3 strip damsel (small)
1 Blue Damsel (medium)
1 Royal Gramma
1 Pygmy Angel
1 Coral Banded Shrimp
2 emerald crabs
1 Deresa clam
3 bulb anemones (1 medium 2 small. 2 small are offspring of the medium one)
1 medium Chiton, (came on the live rock)
Encrusting sponges, (came on the live rock)
various small clams, (came on the live rock)
small anemones (came on the live rock)
1 medium Hawaiian Feather duster
1 Flame scallop
14 Turbo Grazer snails
105 LBS. Fiji live rock
Aragonite sand ½ to 2 inches deep depending on location
Water Quality
Very little protein from skimmer, (empty cup once every two weeks about 1/4
full)
Other unusual aspects of my tank. I have never been able to successfully grow
any macro algae. I have bought a number of different types and it just dies
back, (lighting is good as I have no problems with the bulb anemones or Deresa clam). Also, I have no visible copepods in my tank. Although I have a large
variety of animals from the live rock that are doing fine, (Chiton, anemones,
encrusting sponges, cone shell snails, Coralline algae, clams etc)
PH 8.0 to 8.2
Alkalinity 4.0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Salinity 1.020 to 1.024
Ammonia 0
Calcium 400 PPM
Phosphate .002 - .005
Iodine 0.06
Temperature 78-81
Lighting 12 hours per day
The Phosphate is somewhat higher than normal right now as I am waiting for my
new shipment of Phosguard to arrive.
I have had 4 Dragon Wrasse since I setup my fish tank
Wrasse # 1 - was harassed to death by a Yellow Tang which I since traded in
Wrasse #2 - Just vanished, I never saw it again
<Jumped or buried under sand, died, dissolved...>
Wrasse # 3 - I had coarse gravel mixed in with the Aragonite before I changed
tanks and the owner of the store where I bought it from speculated that it might
have damaged itself on some of the large gravel that was buried in among the
small stuff when it tried to bury itself in the sand. Found it laying dead on
the bottom.
<Possible Cause of death... do need soft, deep substrate to bury, sleep
in.>
Wrasse # 4 - It was put in the tank 6 months after the last Wrasse died. Since
Wrasse # 3 died I have moved to a larger tank and sifted all the large gravel
from the aragonite so there is just smooth gravel with nothing sharp to damage
itself on. All the other animals are doing fine including the more delicate
inverts, (i.e. flame scallop, feather duster, clam). My dealer had been holding
this fish for me for 8 days as I was out of town and it was doing fine in the
dealer's tank. I put it in the tank on Friday November 17th, 2000. Floated it
for 60 minutes adding 1/4 cup of water to the bag after 15 minutes, another 1/4
cup 15 minutes later, then finally adding it to the tank. When I released it in
the tank it seemed to be doing fine. 1 hour after introducing it into the tank I
fed the fish with some frozen brine shrimp and it ate well. There was no
noticeable harassment by any of the other fish. It took up residence on the left
side of the tank near the rock the Diamond Goby lives under. Later that evening
I could not find it anywhere in the tank and assumed it had buried itself for
the night. The next day Saturday it was out and swimming around the tank and
eating off the rocks. I found it at one point laying behind the large rock the
goby lives under, it seemed to be gilling rather rapidly. When it saw me looking
at it, it exited from behind the rock and resumed it's normal swimming pattern.
Sunday I only saw it a couple of times swimming around and then it buried itself
under the gravel. It was out I would estimate a maximum of 2 hours on Sunday.
When I fed the fish early Monday morning it never came out. I never saw it at
all on Monday despite frequent checking. Tuesday morning I found it dead laying
on the gravel in the front of the tank. There was no apparent damage to the
wrasse to indicate that it had been killed by one of the other animals.
Everything I have read about this fish indicates that it is a very easy to keep,
hardy and disease resistant. I really like this fish and would love to keep it
in my tank, but I certainly don't want to kill anymore of them. My dealer is
just as stumped as I am. He felt there were one of two possibilities 1) That the
Goby killed it, viewing it as competition 2) that there is something in my water
that is toxic to only that animal.
I apologize for the length of this E-mail, but I felt it would be best to give
you as much information as possible rather than too little. Any information,
suggestions of ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Gordon Owens
<A bunch to say here, and sorry for the delay in responding... have been on
an island "Down Under" w/o net access for a week... For one, I would
discontinue or only intermittently use the PhosGuard, and get rid of the Weiss
sugar product altogether... these are likely causing your system the lack of
algae and other woes...
The Razorfish/Rock Mover/Dragon Wrasse (Novaculichthys taeniourus) is generally
a tough species/specimen as you list... but I would likely not be placing it in
a system like yours... this is a very rough and tumble customer that would soon
eat your Flame "Scallop", Feather Dusters... and more... but if you
don't mind these eventualities... I would try and buy a specimen from Hawai'i...
these are much better handled and very much less stressed-out than other
sources. Do quarantine the specimen for a good two weeks (no copper necessary,
but keep the lid on tight!) before placing it. Be chatting.
Bob Fenner>
