Elephant Ear Mushroom... Not So Little Shroom of Horrors! – 08/02/07
<Greetings, Mich here.>
125G marine reef tank, running for a little over 1.5 years. Tank parameters are very good.
<Vague.>
About six months ago I purchased an elephant ear mushroom.
<Uh-oh>
The fish store said it would not get much bigger than it was which at the time was about 8 inches diameter. Low and behold it is now at least 20 inches in diameter and is starting to consume my fish.
<Wow! That's a big one!>
How big will this monster get?
<Mmm, yours is bigger than the generally described max size! You might want to name it Audrey... feed me Seymour!>
I have it at the end of the tank with nothing around it. I was sad beyond words to see it had gotten my mandarin which was over a year old. It has eaten my peppermint shrimp and a chromis that I've had for over a year and a half.
<It will eat anything it can capture. This means any fish of invertebrate that comes into contact with it. It should be in a coral only tank.>
Every 6 days I've been feeding it small portions of shrimp.
<Will still capture anything it can.>
Can I remove it from the rock without hurting it?
<Likely so.>
If I get it off and leave a piece behind, will it regenerate?
<Likely so.>
I may just need to get rid of the rock all together.
<Perhaps or a chisel or hammer may do the trick!>
Of course the fish store will take donations, but no credit for it.
<Perhaps a fellow hobbyist? But only one that is aware of its capacity to engulf and consume anything that comes into contact with it.>
It is a beautiful creature.
<Yes.>
I'm torn between loosing fish or finding a new home for the animal,
<I would not allow this creature to be tankmates with any fish or mobile inverts.>
plus I paid a goodly sum for it when I got it.
<It's not about the money.>
Shame on me for not investigating before I purchased it.
<A sign of wisdom here. We all make mistakes... learning from them is key.>
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
<Needs to be in a tank with no mobile tankmates. Mich>

Mushrooms, Cerianthus comp...   4/22/07
<Greetings Mich here.>
I have been reading your site about mushrooms and have a few questions regarding them. I have a 55-gallon tank with LR, fish, sand, starfish, crabs, and tube anemones. Can mushrooms be added with the tubes anemones?
<Not close by.  The tube anemones will sting/kill most anything with in striking distance.>
Will they sting each other?
<The tube anemone will win.>
Will the mushrooms multiply and take over the LR?
<Usually not uncontrollably.>
Will they release a toxin harmful to the other tank mates if stressed?
<They have allelopathic capacities.>
Lastly, they also should be put in QT upon arrival before adding to your main display correct?
<Always a good idea.>
(I have an Ich concern here. I'm not sure if the LFS has it in there system)
<Thus, the QT recommendation.>
Thank you for your advice.
<Welcome!  -Mich>

Mushroom Anemone and Soft Coral Help   11/24/06
Hi again Justin,
<Hello again, Ben, hope this evening finds you well.>
Thank you for the quick reply and for your help.
<Anytime, is what we're here for.>
If chemical warfare is at play here do you recommend removing certain corals? Or is there a way I can prevent it or minimize it?
<Short of removing the leathers, your best bet would be chemical filtration such as ChemiPure somewhere in a flow path.>
The Mushroom anemones are not cupped upward, its just the stems that seem to be reaching upwards, does this seem right?
<I'm not sure I understand here... do you mean that they are stretching their base towards the light, but still extending normally? Still sounds like they're struggling for light here...>
I have looked at the Commodity Axis website who are the manufactures of my tank and the lighting output is one 18watt PC actinic bulb and one 18watt PC 7,100k Daylight bulb are these sufficient for the corals that I have? If they are not what would you recommend?
<Mmm, is borderline at best, in my opinion in the case of the mushrooms, definitely lacking for the leathers... Doubling up the lighting would likely be sufficient for what you wish to keep.>
In regard to the water current the powerhead is attached to the undergravel filter. The actual powerhead sits at the bottom of the tank and has a tube that goes up towards the surface, I have placed a wave maker to the tube which moves via a gyro that turns when the water is pumped through and deflects the water current around the whole tank. I could send a picture of this device if that would help?
<Good description, I don't think a picture will be necessary>
Would you recommend removing the undergravel filter? Once a week I hover the gravel and do a 10% - 15% water change with water that I have purchased from the fish store.
<Mmm, if it were me/mine, I would. Your husbandry methods sound adequate for the setup though.>
Lastly the test kit I used for the carbonate and alkalinity was a Salifert carbonate/alkalinity test are you familiar with these test kits?
<Am familiar, but have never used one personally unfortunately. Does this test describe them as different? As I understand it, the carbonate hardness of water is a measure of the alkalinity of the water.>
Thank you again for your help, I look forward to hearing back from you.
Hopefully I can fix this problem before its gets too bad.
Kind regards
Ben    
<Before you start rushing out to get rid of the leathers, I would try employing some form of chemical filtration as mentioned previously, and consider removing the undergravel filter. Aside from the lighting issue, I remember that you stated your nitrate reading is stable at 20ppm. This could also be lending to the degrading appearance of your corals. Out of curiosity, do you employ a protein skimmer, or any external forms of filtration, aside from the undergravel filter? Glad to be of help! -JustinN>

Was Quarantine Tank Size, now Corallimorph toxicity 11/20/06
Hi Bob,
<Q man!>
I've got a quick question relating to a comment you made in a previous reply.  While listing my tank stock you mentioned that mushrooms (all either blue, green or red) and polyps can be "noxious".  I'm wondering if you could further explain this comment.
<These animals are (on the slippery sliding scale of Cnidarian et al. allelopathy) more than a "5" out of ten...>
I've noticed that the number of mushrooms present in my tank has probably doubled in the time I've had it (3-4 months).  I have several that are currently about 4" in diameter that regularly contact one another.  I suppose because of the way they propagate they tend to all cluster in one area...  I assumed they might dislodge themselves and try to relocate to another area once their original home became too crowded.
<Don't have to do this to be noxious... release chemicals...>
  This doesn't appear to be the case.  I've noticed that 2 very large specimen (growing almost on top of one another) in particular seem to be at chemical war.
<Good observation>
My hope was that they would settle their dispute on their own ( one would eventually kill the other).  Should I be concerned about the chemicals they may be releasing into the water while they're doing battle?
Thanks
Quentin
<Yes... please read on WWM re stinging-celled animal Compatibility and the same for the groups you keep, want to keep... there are a few (stated) approaches to limiting the ill-effects here... Bob Fenner>

Which Soft Coral Next? - 10/30/06
To the awesome WWM crew,
<<Hey Nathan!>>
I have an established 40 gal reef tank with good lighting and filtration. I have 19 1-inch (or smaller) mushrooms in my tank, and was wondering which soft coral I should introduce next.  I heard that most Zoanthids are hardy and get along well with mushrooms.
<<Mmm, nothing will really "get along" with corallimorphs...or zoanthids for that matter.  But the two will likely "coexist" in your system as long as you are able to maintain physical separation and have adequate skimming and chemical filtration to temper allelopathy>>
I was also wondering if I could have any leather corals in this tank.
<<As long as you don't overdue, and follow the previous guidelines>>
Thanks for the great advice!
Nathan
<<Happy to assist.  Eric Russell>>

Symbiotic relationship clown goby  - 09/14/06
Well I did a search on the above subject with no luck. My clown goby seems to have taken to a small mushroom coral I just placed on my nano tank a few weeks ago (it accidentally broke off so I put in my smallest reef tank) The clown goby now loves the mushroom and lays in it all the time, everyone seems happy, but is there a scientific relationship?
<Mmm, are known to hang about various groups of cnidarians... though mostly Acroporids... table top types in the wild>
I know other gobies have these types of relationships (symbiotic that is) from your site, etc.  Only by observation does this appear harmless to both, please confirm this is OK.  
<Is>
On the lighter side of life, I understand that male (psychedelic) mandarins rarely show their beautiful head fins in complete banner, well mine does this all the time when he is swimming and feeding, does this mean he needs a girl friend or he is a show off?
<Possibly both/either>
(PS., he is very healthy as a direct result of this site, in fact he has grown out so much his bottom is full of beautiful circles I never saw when I first got him, absolutely amazing fish with right care.) Thanks. Please feel free to post a link if I missed it on your site.  
<No worries. Thanks for writing. Bob Fenner>

Coral Toxicity/Mixed Reefs - 08/01/06
Hello to all.
<<Good Morning>>
It's been a while since I bothered the crew with a question, but here I am again.
<<No bother...is why we are here>>
I am somewhat puzzled by issues relating to the toxicity of leathers to other corals in the tank.
<<Nothing to be puzzled about...leather corals (Alcyoniids) are some of the most noxious organisms on the reef>>
As I understand it, Sinularia is the culprit (or just main culprit?) here.
<<Not limited to just this species, most all leather corals should be considered>>
Is it correct to assume that Sarcophyton does not cause the same harm?
<<No...is also an Alcyoniid>>
Are stony corals the only type potentially harmed?
<<No again...cnidarians may possibly be more easily affected/less resistant to the chemical poisoning, but leather corals can and do affect/kill other leather corals>>
And are all stony corals potentially harmed or just certain ones?
<<Potentially all>>
We have a 40 gal. reef tank, and have both of the mentioned leathers.  We also have a bubble coral, a torch, and a button coral, along with other polyps and various mushrooms.
<<Don't discount the potential for harm from the mushrooms and polyp corals.  Corallimorphs are right up there with the nastiest leather corals in terms of toxicity/ability to "burn" stony corals.  And if the "polyps" are Palythoa, they pose certain hazard to not only the corals but also to the aquarist (try a Google search on the keyword 'Palytoxin')>>
We do a 4 gal. water change weekly and water parameters are fine.
<<Ah yes, the frequent (weekly) water changes are a good method for diluting the chemicals released by the corals.  Supplemental chemical filtration in the form of carbon and/or Poly-Filter will also help>>
Within the tank the leathers are not close to the stony corals, but obviously, it's a small tank.
<<They know they are there, yes.  Anthony Calfo recommends a minimum spacing of about 10" between corals, and even then "pruning" will likely be required as the corals grow.  But even then, allelopathy (chemical warfare on the reef) is being waged>>
Even with the frequency of the water changes, is it just not possible to keep everybody healthy?
<<Mmm, can be done.  How successful you'll be depends on your stocking density and your attention to good husbandry/maintenance>>
I wish we had been more aware of this issue before setting up the tank, but we understood (more accurately, misunderstood) the problem to be more one of providing adequate space between the corals within the tank.
<<Indeed...the challenges of keeping a "mixed garden variety" type reef tank.  Much better in my opinion for aquarists to  choose a particular niche on the reef to replicate...keeping specimens of a particular species, or family of corals even, greatly increases chances for "long term" success>>
If we were doing it over now, we would specialize in a tank this small.  In any event, now that we have what we have, is it possible for everything to thrive if we're conscientious about frequency of water changes?
<<For a time, but the leather corals will rapidly outgrow/outpace the stony corals.  You might be able to keep things in check by pruning back the leathers, but eventually you may decide it's time to "specialize">>
Thanks so much for any input/thoughts.  This site is so unbelievably helpful.
Laura
<<Happy to assist. Regards, EricR>>

Re: Coral Toxicity/Mixed Reefs II - 08/01/06
Thanks so much for the response and the information, Eric.
<<My pleasure Laura>>
As answers often do, these prompt more questions.
<<Indeed...please proceed>>
Are you saying that mushrooms burn stony corals?
<<I am...very aggressive.  Mushrooms have the capacity to spread among/over stony corals, eventually killing them>>
I have a button coral right by some red and green fluorescent mushrooms (Actinodiscus), for instance - thinking I was putting them someplace safe, well away from the leathers.  Sigh.
<<You’re not alone in this belief.  Many hobbyists seem to be under the illusion that these organisms are "benign"...not the case.  Couple their innocuous appearance (small single body mass, lack of apparent stinging tentacles) with the fact they are "pushed" in the hobby as "starter" corals for new marine aquarists, and you have a formula for disaster in many cases.  I have seen tanks where these organisms literally "took over"...much like an invasive terrestrial plant...though be aware, this behavior is not limited to corallimorphs.  I advise you to "make some space" around the mushrooms, and if necessary, take measures to control their spread>>
As for the polyps, I have just starburst polyps, Pachyclavularia.
<<Ah...thank you for the clarification..."polyps" can be many things>>
I did the Google search you suggested for palytoxin, but not sure which species are included in Palythoa.
<<Often sold under the common name "Button Polyps"...mostly green or brown varieties.  Sometimes even mislabeled as "zooanthids">>
Any further guidance - say, to just getting a bowl and a goldfish?
<<Ha!  Not necessary my friend (and actually, that brings up another misnomer/problem in the hobby...but that's for a different category).  No need to be "frightened" from keeping these magnificent organisms, just understand (learn) what they are about.  Most everything on the reef is fighting for a spot/room to propagate, and most all have developed methods/very formidable weapons to accomplish this.  Putting these animals in the confines of a closed system serves to multiply the issues of toxicity and aggression...but can be successfully dealt with where forethought to their care/requirements/compatibility is given.  I am an advocate of biotope or species specific systems...but many, many hobbyists have systems just as yours and honestly, they can be/are quite beautiful when the correct "balance" is struck>>
Laura
<<Be chatting.  EricR>>

Coral Compatibility...Mushrooms vs. Hammer Coral  7/18/06
You guys (and gals) have been very helpful to me in the past, and have helped me weather more than a few storms with my 36 bowfront reef, and I'd like to see if you can help me with this one.  I cannot keep mushrooms alive.  I have a 36 bowfront reef with hang-on-filter and hang-on skimmer, 2 powerheads in the tank for flow, 3.5 inch DSB, about 50 pounds live rock and 2 65 kW PC fluorescents.  I've been up and running more than a year with stable params (1.024, pH 8.2, ammonia-nitrites-nitrates all reading 0, temp 80, Ca 390, alk 4.5).  Few small fish are healthy (although I have a Falco hawk who is a bit aggressive), and I have star polyps, yellow polyps, some button polyps, and a branching anchor, all of which are growing and doing very well.  I run carbon and PolyFilters changed alternately every 2 weeks.  I use RO water with Oceanic salt (will switch to Instant Ocean when I run out).  Twice now, I have placed mushroom rocks (Discosoma) at the base of my tank, and each time after slow and careful acclimation, they expand and look great for about 2 weeks, but after 2 weeks, they begin to contract and fold up, the mouth protrudes, and then over a week or so they wither and dissolve.  I add iodine rarely (a few drops a week when my tests show almost none in the tank).  I don't target feed the corals, but add some thawed Cyclop-eeze with the fish food once or twice a week, and I know they pick up some spare Mysis when I feed the fish.  I'm a little confused, as mushrooms are supposedly so "easy", but I'm have great luck with my anchor, but can't keep the mushrooms alive.  I was hoping PolyFilter and carbon would take care of any battling between species.  I've never seen any "critters" bothering the mushrooms, and there are no chunks missing.  I place them low in the tank, and an area of relatively low flow.  I cannot find any specific requirements for mushrooms anywhere, but my best guess is something "unknown" in the water which is toxic specifically to mushrooms, or there is something missing (an additive), that is required for mushrooms, but not for the others.  Would love to tap your experience for any ideas.  I like the looks of them, but if I just can't have them, I hate to have any more withering in my tank....
<The Anchor/Hammer Corals are very aggressive in regards to chemical warfare.  Even with the use of chemical media, the problem will exist in a small tank such as yours.  The Hammer Coral has long sweeper tentacles, so nothing is too safe in it's vicinity.  Give the Hammer Coral a ride to your dealer, let him hold it for a while and continue chemical filtration.  I'm pretty sure within two weeks you will see an improvement.  James (Salty Dog)>
Tim

Re:  Coral Compatibility...Mushrooms vs. Hammer Coral   7/18/06
Thanks for the reply, but I'm wondering if you might have any other thoughts.  My first failures with mushrooms happened several months ago, before the hammer was in the tank.  Aside from the new mushrooms (now about 2 weeks in) he's my most recent addition (about 8 weeks now, and doing well over the 8 weeks).  The mushrooms and anchor are at opposite ends of the tank, and the anchor is placed high, while the mushrooms are low.
<Doesn't matter, they are still in the same tank.>
It may be the hammer this time, but I suspect there may be something else...
<Thinking environmental problems, any cleaners used near the tank, substance in freshwater used for top off, etc.
Read here and related links.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/shroomhlthfaq2.htm  James (Salty Dog)>

Coral Aggression/Relocating Corallimorphs - 07/13/06
Good day all,
<<And to you in kind>>
I have a question regarding some blue mushrooms and a pineapple coral inhabiting the same rock.
<<Uh-oh>>
It seems the blue mushrooms are moving and are smothering the pineapple coral causing it to discolor in some parts, probably from lack of light.
<<Mmm, no...more likely damage from aggression...stinging/noxious chemicals from the mushrooms>>
Is there any good way to remove the mushroom without hurting it?
<<Not a good situation James.  Your best option in my opinion is to relocate the pineapple coral.  If not possible/desirable, you can try scraping the mushrooms off the rock from around the pineapple coral.  This will do little damage to the mushroom (can be relocated/traded), but you need to get "all" of it else a new organism will likely "sprout" from any bits left behind.  The best way to do this is to remove the rock from the tank and working at a table/bench, use an appropriately sized sharp wood chisel (buy an inexpensive chisel for this...don't ruin your good woodworking tools if you have them) to cut a thin sliver of rock from underneath the mushroom's attachment point.  It is usually easier than it sounds, with the soft calcareous rock in our tanks. And do use extreme care not to injure yourself with the sharp chisel...be cautious when holding the rock not to place any extremities in the path of the chisel blade!>>
Thanks in advance for your help!
James
<<Very welcome, EricR>>

Re: Coral Aggression/Relocating Corallimorphs - 07/14/06
Thanks for the info!
<<Quite welcome>>
I just wanted to ensure the mushroom wouldn't die off by moving it off the rock.
<<Have done this before, should be fine>>
Would I be able to take the rock out of the water without harming either organism?
<<Exposure to the atmosphere for short periods (the time it takes to shave a few mushrooms) will not harm either organism.  Do keep a container of tank water handy for dipping/rinsing the rock/corals periodically...and be sure to discard this water afterwards.  Regards Eric Russell>>

Dead Anemone Residue...Mushrooms Vacating  - 07/03/04
Hi Guys,
<Hello Nancy>
I had a medium bubble anemone for over a year who was home to a tomato clown.  A few months ago it moved to the underside of a rock and slowly withered away and left a cottony white layer where it's base had been.  Not knowing if the anemone would grow back from this I left it in place.  I now have a large covering of this on an adjacent rock and the resident mushrooms are vacating the rock (which they used to cover).  Is this something I want to eradicate or is it a friendly unknown species who has taken up residence.  This is a 75 gal tank with a deep sand bed that has been up and running without incident for 2+ years, (initially set up in 98 but had a severe algae problem and I had to tear down, scrub and redo to get rid of it all.).  H2O parameters seem ok, fish are happy, very little algae, VHO lights + Moonlights.  I will attempt to attach a pic but I am digitally challenged, sorry if it doesn't work.
<Pic was sent with no problem. <<But not saved for posting... RMF>>  Nancy, any residue left by a dead anemone should definitely be removed.  This can be quite toxic to the rest of the inhabitants.  Probably why your mushrooms are heading west.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Nancy D

More room for shroom?  - 05/13/2006
Hi guys, really quick couple of questions!  I placed Ricordea yuma in the aquarium recently and although they are slowly opening to their full size, they are not displaying their full colour potential or fully expanding their polyps.
<Takes time... corallimorphs don't "like" being moved>
  Could it be that the 156W of HO is to blame (7 month-old tubes) - <... possibly... what was this Cnidarian kept like previously?>
and if so will the 150W Halide (with 78W 'moonlights') I have coming make any difference?
<... Likely so... should see change very quickly... depending on where oriented might burn...>
(By the way, my yellow polyps are also shutting down).  
<... That you had already?>
Secondly, the Fungia Coral I have has started to bleach and give-off a lot of mucus.  This seems to have been since it was moved nearer to the shrooms - just coincidence or could they be at war?  Thanks yet again for your invaluable help, Steve Morse.
<Oh yes... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... Need more space perhaps, more chemical filtration, better skimming, the addition of a refugium... some countervailing efforts. Bob Fenner>

Toadstool Leather Bleaching My Ricordea?  - 05/10/2006
I have a 75 gal tank, about 4 months old with excellent water parameters (Nitrates Zero), weekly water changes, large growth of Coralline, 20 gal sump with Chaeto refugium, good water circulation, 500 watt MH, skimmer going full throttle with a light bioload and no fish as of yet.
One month ago I placed a Ricordea yuma rock at the bottom of my tank with good results. Opened nicely, with some vibrant red beginning to emerge through the green. Then, last week, I added a  aquacultured Toadstool leather (Sarcophyton) and then began to notice some bleaching (incompletely) of the Ricordea and it's not opening up as well as it was. I know these leathers can produce all kinds of toxin-like chemicals. Any thoughts? < Although the Sarcophytons can and will emit toxins, I don't think this is the cause of the Ricordea issues. Yuma's are notorious for acting this way especially the red varieties. > Should I move the Ricordea farther away... or higher in the water column?? < I normally place these anemones at the bottom of the tank; save the prime real estate for animals who are more demanding in regards to light. > Trade it in before it gets worse? < That may only serve to advance the situation. > Or just be patient and wait it out. < Very good idea!> My other corals, a small Euphyllia torch and a Zoanthid frag are doing fine.
Thanks. < I only hope I was of some help. RichardB >
Russell in KY

Whodunit? (or what might 'avedunit more accurately!). Mushroom muncher   3/14/06
Hello Crew.
           Please could you try to offer me some of your expert insight
into my current problem? Something appears to be eating my mushroom type
corals, first my colony of pink Ricordea/Rhodactis went at about 1 piece
every 48 hrs, until all that's left is one small re-growth and a large
piece of bare rock, and now a lovely fluorescent green mushroom that had
appeared spontaneously from my last batch of live rock has suddenly
disappeared. I'm fairly certain they are being eaten, because when this
type of coral has died back before they appear to sort of 'melt' after a
few days obvious deterioration. The latest losses have been there one
day fully expanded and happy, and gone the next leaving no sign they
were ever there. I've done some searching on both your site and the net
generally and the main culprits seem to be snails and Nudibranchs -
<Most commonly, yes>
as far as I know I have neither in my tank,( but with live rock who knows?), apart from top shell type turbo snails and a Chiton. Could
hitcher crabs be a possible culprit?
<Yes... as could be a very large group/species of worms...>
Nocturnal viewing has picked up 3 or 4 small crabs not stocked deliberately. Would a Boxer Shrimp(
Stenopus hispidus), be another possible perpetrator -
<Could be as well, yes>
it had been peaceful until last month when it decided to eat my Blood Shrimp,
(Lysmata debelius - why is it always the cheap animal eating the most expensive??),
<An extension, interpretation of "Murphy's Aquatic Laws">
but I've never seen it pay any interest to corals. The only other additions to the tank this year are 3 new fish, a Royal
Gramma, Gramma loreto), a Six Line Wrasse, (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia),
and a very small Regal Tang, (Paracanthurus hepatus),  - none of which I've read anything about as coral eaters.
<Correct. Very unlikely it is one of these>
           Tank parameters are good apart from elevated nitrate which
I'm part way to dealing with by commissioning a Sulphur nitrate reactor, other stock as follows;
2 Common Clowns, (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1 Midas Blenny, (Ecsenius midas)
2 Neon Damsels, (Pomacentrus alleni)
1 Scarlet Hawkfish, (Neocirrhites armatus)
1 Bicolour Angelfish, (Centropyge bicolor)
1 Cleaner Shrimp, (Lysmata amboinensis)
7 top shell type turbo snails
8 red legged hermits
3 blue legged hermits
Corals:
Sinularia sp. possibly flexibis
Sarcophyton sp.
Various Zoanthid colonies
Lemnalia sp.
Tank is 340 litre set up for 9 months with 45 kg of Indonesian live rock.
        Thank you again for your time - much appreciated.
                          Bob Mehen, Cornwall, UK.
<Bob, do avail yourself of a small, but powerful "focused beam" sort of flashlight and make close observation during the night time hours to see if you can detect what/who is doing what here. I do suspect it is a very-well camouflaged snail or Nudibranch at play... very hard to detect... even during "broad daylight"... Bob Fenner>

E-mail glitch? Re: Mushroom muncher  - 03/14/2005
Hello Crew.
          Just to say I notice my latest question has appeared on today's daily FAQs, but I haven't actually received any e-mail at this
end, and just happened to spot Mr Fenner's answer while scanning through the FAQ page... my e-mail is working fine in all other ways, any ideas.
<Thank you for this... am very sure I did not (the default is to respond directly and save as sent...) "click off" to not send the reply... Another vote for changing our mail server ISP>
I attach the e-mail and answer for context. My only other question on this is as the mystery mushroom muncher has just about cleaned my tank
out of mushroom corals,( only 1 tiny mushroom left), will it now be likely to turn it's attentions to my other corals or shall I just wait
for it to dispatch my last one and then hope it crawls off and starves to death...?
<... depends on "who" it is... some predators are pretty specific (e.g. many Nudibranchs, seaslugs...), while others are more "omni" in their food taking... (e.g. many bristleworms). Cheers, Bob Fenner>
 

Mushrooms (Corallimorphs) Taking Over! - 02/09/06 Just a quick note to you Bob, to ask about this mushroom that is taking over my reef! <<EricR here this morning.>> Something tells me they are the "weeds" of the ocean! <<Can overwhelm a tank, yes.  More than a few hobbyists have come to "rue the day" they added 'shrooms' to their reef tank.>> Very simple to keep and multiply. <<Indeed...and usually to the detriment of more desirable livestock.>> Though all I do, is sit back and watch! <<A hardy, prolific, and aggressive organism.>> What would you do with such a collection? <<Many are quite beautiful/interesting...perhaps set up specie specific or biotope theme tank to transfer them to...or maybe trade to your LFS for store credit.>> If I pull them out, like a weed) would they survive the "transplant" to another tank? <<You will need to move them with the rock, shells, etc., to which they are attached...but yes, easily transferred with little/no impact on the animal. Thanks, Pam <<Welcome, EricR>>

Chromis / Damsel Behavior  11/23/05
Long time reader, first time question asker...
<Howdy>
I have a 75 gal tank with miscellaneous corals and fish that include 2 yellow damsels and 3 blue green Chromis.  I've recently added some Ricordea Mushrooms.  After 1 month of having them in the tank, I've noticed the Chromis like to go up to them, wiggle around, brush up against them and whack them with their tails. I doubt the mushrooms appreciate this.  I've seen the Yellow Damsels do this to my Hairy Mushrooms in the past but not as intensely.  This seems a bit odd since my Chromis don't bother anything else in the tank.  What could they possibly be doing ???
Thanks,
Chris
<(Mis)behaving?... looking for "substrate"... adventitious behavior that might have preservation value... place/s to hide should there be a predator... Bob Fenner>

Mushroom and Chocolate Chip Starfish 10/15/05
Hi Bob!
I have been using WWM as a resource for most of my marine questions.
I bought a green mushroom about 1" in diameter at a local frag swap. It was doing well, raising it's green tentacles most of the time. Last week, when I got home, I saw my Chocolate Chip Starfish on top of the mushroom. I immediately transferred the Starfish to my FOWLR tank. 
Sorry, I did not know that they are not compatible. I see mushrooms and starfish in the same tank in my LFS. The mushroom shrunk a little bit to about 2/3" and did not show it's green tentacles again. It just sat there for a week without any further sign of deterioration. How do I know if it is still alive? Is there anyway I could save it and bring it back to life?
<It very well could regenerate Mike. Weekly dosing of an iodine supplement may help, but not much else you can do. Give it some time. I bought a small piece of live rock with absolutely nothing on it but coralline, two months later appeared four mushrooms and still spreading. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks for your response. 
<You're welcome>
 

Acropora compatibility 7/24/05
Hello again.
<Hello ol' buddy ol' pal - Ali here>
I have yet another question for you guys. The tank is still not set up yet, but I'm a little confuse about something. Sometimes I would read about not mixing hard corals with soft. Sometimes I would read that it is okay. I plan to keep some hard corals such as a hammer coral and an Acropora. I was just wondering if mushrooms would okay to add into the mix. My first interest in corals were yuma Ricordea and Acroporids, and if the cannot coexist, then I have a little dilemma.
<Yes they can. 'Yuma' Ricordea generally are very slow at naturally reproducing in captive environments without forced incisions. Therefore, you don't have to worry about them spreading all over the place and 'stinging' your Acroporids. However, remember that generally across and yuma require somewhat different environments. If you do decide to keep them together, place the Ricordea in lower light, lower-flow areas. Also, many of the more exotic colored yuma that come in are already sick and/or dying. Search around for healthy pre-established specimens if possible. By pre-established, I mean look for fellow reefers who've kept the coral healthy, plump and happy for several months/years and try to strike up a deal with them.>
Well, thanks for all the help so far and don't worry, for I will continue to ask lots and lots of questions. : )
<You got it bud, feel free to keep the questions coming - Ali>
 

Coral Compatibility 07/01/05
Hi,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
I have a 2.5 year old 55g reef tank, w 80lbs LR and 260w PC lighting. I also have the AquaC Remora skimmer and a 4" deep sand bed and use only RO/DI water. For the most part everything has gone well, with this site to thank!
<We're glad to be a part of it!>
To keep nitrates in control, I just added a refugium w/miracle mud and Chaetomorpha and a new detritivore kit from Inland aquatics, which has been up and running for about a month.  Water parameters are very good and things look much better but some corals are still closed up, specifically the Pagoda, Finger Leather and Star burst Polyp.  The only left that I can figure is that I must have a chemical fight going on with the corals.
<Very likely...>
Are there any problems with the following co-existing? Finger Leather Coral, Pagoda Coral, Star burst Polyp, Torch Coral, Brain Coral, Bubble Coral, Hammer Coral, Mushroom Coral, and Acropora.  Not sure what else to do here.
<Well, this is a pretty interesting mix! The Torch and Leather Corals are extremely aggressive. The Mushroom Corals really have no place in this mix, coming from much deeper on the reef than Acropora. Also, rethink the Acropora in this tank. The allelopathic compounds being produced by the other corals will create great problems in the long run, particularly in a tank of this volume. Study the corals that you really want to keep, and develop a stocking plan that incorporates corals that come from similar environmental niches and conditions.>
Any suggestions? Thanks
<As above- I'd think about the corals that are "must haves" in your book, and figure out which of the other corals you like will work with them. Do check out the resources here on WWM, and in books like Anthony Calfo's excellent "Book of Coral Propagation", or Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals". Both are excellent guides to identification, selection, and care of corals. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
 

Corallimorph removal 3/10/05
Dear Anthony
<cheers>
I have some easy to keep SPS Turbinarias...
<Hmmm... yellow scroll species, you mean?>
...in my reef tank, as well as Caulastrea and Montipora. All are placed mid way up my tank with 300 watts of PC lighting. As you know from previous posts I am upgrading to 400 watt metal halides.
<sorry mate... I did not recall from the hundreds of e-mails in the last month ;)>
I have a massive Corallimorph growth on my tank bottom that concerns me for allelopathy.
<agreed>
The mushrooms are in low flow and all my SPS corals receive moderate to fast flow from powerheads well away from any SPS. No mushrooms are touching but my concern is general chemical aggression by these mushrooms.
<understood>
I change water weekly and carbon regularly. I am thinking of removing some of the corallimorphs to my refugium or maybe ditching them totally.
<a good idea>
Anthony suggests using ozone to obviously kill chemical compounds that corals chuck out in an allelopathic manner. I have to disagree with the usage of ozone as it is chemically unstable and in my opinion does the job that can be done by normal aquarium maintenance (or even a weekly zap of a UV sterilizer).
<thank you for your input>
Is my regime adequate for this coral mix or should I remove the mushrooms?
<removal is the best long term solution>
Cheers, Jim
<Anthony> 

Mushrooms galore
WWM
I have a 120 reef that I had attempted transition from LPS, soft coral, etc. (a general mix of various types of corals) to SPS and LPS. Unfortunately, the mushrooms in the tank are taking over and stinging some of my acros. Do you know any way of eliminating the mushrooms, other than removing the rock and replacing with new rock. I have removed some of the rock and placed it in another tank but all the rocks have fairly significant coverage of mushrooms. I have also attempted to scrape, detach, remove and so on, but they are just too numerous. 
<Rob, I'm sure there would be no problem trading mushroom rock for nice live rock at your dealer. James (Salty Dog)>
 

Spacing Mushrooms 
Hi Crew,
As I understand it, different corals need space between one another.
<Yes>
Recently there was a response about a certain species (do not recall which) that different colors should be treated as different corals. Is this true of mushrooms as well?  Thanks.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm  Not necessarily different colors, but species, even colonies should be "given space"... allowed to "grow closer" over time... if they will.  Bob Fenner>
 

WAY too many mushrooms!
Hi Bob,
If you have time, I have a question I'm hoping you can aid me in answering
:-)
I have a 600g reef tank that has been taken over by larger blue mushrooms
(100-500) and large Aiptasia (100+ easy).
Was thinking of adding either a Raccoon or Copperband Butterflyfish to take
care of all the mushrooms and Aiptasia.<I don't believe the butterflies are going to bother your mushrooms as far as eliminating them> Are these the best choice of fish to
handle this task? Or do you have a better suggestion? Any is welcomed :-)<As far as the Aiptasia goes, you will find what your looking for here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/aiptasia/aipfaqs.htm> James (Salty Dog)
Main reason I'd like to rid my tank of the mushrooms and Aiptasia is that
I'd like to start adding SPS and do not wish to be dealing with the
mushrooms and Aiptasia after adding numerous frags. The population will just
continue to grow and threaten the corals.
Will the Butterflyfish remain peaceful with my current stock of fish? <No problem>
I'm more concerned about my current fish and shrimps than the Butterflyfish,
but to realize the cleaner shrimps may 'disappear'. The leather corals would
be an acceptable loss and if needed I could move the Gorgonians and
Blastomussa corals to my holding tank.
I do realize I'll need to take out the Butterfly prior to adding the SPS and
ensure I keep the nutrients low. Catching the fish may take some time thou;
been there, done that :-(
I have massive amounts of live rock and do not wish to destroy the aquascape
I've created; therefore scraping is not an option I want to take :-(
Thanks for you time and any suggestions you may have,
Sincerely,
Tony De La Cruz
Current stock:
Anthias
  Bartlett
  Lyretail
Wrasses
   Read Velvet
   Leopard
   Exquisite
Cardinalfish
   Kauderni
   Spotted
   Orange Lined
   Longspine
Green Chromis
Canary Deep Water Damsel
Gold Assessor Basslet
Kole Yellow Eye Tang
Yellow Tang
Yellowhead Jawfish
Pseudochromis Fridmani
Many Cleaner shrimps (Lysmata amboinensis), these I fear Butterfly will eat
:-(
Various leather corals
Gorgonians
Blastomussa coral
Pearl bubble coral

Chemical warfare question
I have a 10 gallon sw tank, a penguin mini filter, and a couple inches of
sand with a few fish. It is 18 months old and very steady water quality. I
change 1 gallon a week. About 3 weeks ago I decided to add some color by
adding 2 mushrooms; red, green and an orange Ricordea ( so now I also have
3 small rocks). I have a regular cover with a fluorescent bulb (which I
just replaced) and mushrooms should be ok with my lighting based on what I
have read. Yesterday I came across an article relating to mixing corals
and the problem being discussed was the chemicals released by one kind
against another. My question is, do these chemicals have any adverse
affect on fish?
<Can, yes>
And if yes, will my mushrooms release anything if they are
the only kind in my tank?
<Generally not too deleteriously... though the larger the system, the safer it is... a ten gallon is a very small world. Bob Fenner>

Mushroom warfare
Guys,
  Sorry to keep bothering you... but I've pretty much read all the stuff on
mushroom coral and coral placement/warfare FAQs on WWM. It raised enough
doubts for me to cancel my mushroom coral order - I was getting a mixture of
1 Ricordea, 3 Actinodiscus and 2 Rhodactis species.
<< They do fine... if they are in a tank big enough to separate them. >>
  Here is what I'm interested in. While I do 25% water changes every two to
three weeks, I don't want a system that will crash if I don't do it. I have
a very lightly loaded tank -an ocellaris clown, orchid Dottyback and Kole
tang with two skunk cleaner shrimp and 80lbs of live rock in a 72G tank with
a decent remora skimmer, 4" sugar fine sand, poly filter, phosphate sponge
and 1-2oz carbon and a wet dry with 60% of media removed and more going away
slowly. << This tank is just fine for all those mushrooms. >> My Kole tang has finally rid the tank of all hair algae and I'm very
very content. Well almost or else I wouldn't be typing this email! BTW, 384
watts of PC.
   But, I've always wanted corals and want some simple to maintain corals.
I've pretty much narrowed the choice down to Actinodiscus mushroom corals
now -just one colony each of blue, red and green-striped.
<< Sound like good choices. >>
Question #1: Is this sufficient to reduce allelopathy or should I just get
one colony of one species and let it multiply? Basically, with mushrooms, at
what point will the shedding of chemicals stop/reach the minimum possible
value? I realize that I might be asking too much here...
<< I wouldn't worry about them fighting in your low density aquarium. >>
Question #2: There is little mention of how the fish and other live rock
inhabitants will be affected by these chemicals. Who is likely to be the
weakest link? << Hmmm, good question.  Would think that some inverts are most sensitive but most difficult to monitor.  Again, I wouldn't worry about this tank. >> The one I can use as an assay organism in my tank?
Thank you for your time and effort!
Narayan
<<  Blundell  >>
 

Mixing mushrooms?
Adam B,
  BTW in a mushroom only setup will they still engage in chemical warfare? << Yep.  But they aren't very aggressive and I certainly wouldn't worry about it. >>
What about the pieces of rock that the mushrooms are attached to -they
should have some die off during the shipping process? << Yes they should.  Nothing you can do about that.  I guess the key is to save as much life as you can. >>
Narayan
<<  Blundell  >>

Marine stocking
In a 37 gallon corner tank with 20 lbs live rock, proper lighting, water conditions, and correct fish load. << If all those parameters are looking good, great.  Go on. >> I want to add blue Actinodiscus mushrooms,,, no other corals etc. except some fan worms and great coralline algae. will my black brittle star kill it, or will my lawnmower blenny hurt it.. I really tried to get or find answer but no luck and LFS are a little clueless please let me know it will ok or if something similar like Discosoma would be better. << I think you are safe with those animals.  Great tank mates, and should do well together. >>
thanks
<< Blundell >>

Mushroom Eaters? (3/29/04) 
Dear Crew: <Steve Allen tonight> 
My 80 gal. reef tank is full of green mushroom anemones. I started with just one polyp on a piece of live rock and now have thousands. I would like to kill off most of them. The local fish store suggested the following: Purchase a "General Star." Take a mushroom encrusted rock from my main tank and put it in my 55 gal quarantine tank. Put the sea star in the 55 gal tank. They say it will demolish the anemones. <Probably.> Remove the rock when it is cleaned off, put it back in the main tank and repeat with the other encrusted rocks until the anemones are down to a manageable level. <And will the buy the star (Protoreastor linckia) when the mushrooms are all eaten? You have to have somewhere for it to go after the job is done.> In addition to the anemones, I have a variety of hard coral and pulsing xenia in my big tank so I would be afraid to let this sea star lose in there. <Be very afraid. The carnage from this voracious eater would be devastating indeed. They're lovely and interesting, though. I have one in my 180G FOWLR and hand feed it.> Using the 55 gal tank would give me a controlled setting and would not destroy the other organisms that live in the rock. <Well, it will eat everything on the rock you put into the QT. Is this sea star a true mushroom anemone lawnmower, and do you think this plan will work? <No guarantees, but it should eat just about anything. However, manually prying the mushrooms off might be a better, quicker option. If you want to do so, wear gloves.> Thank you. <Hope this helps.>

Vanishing Shrooms 3/30/03
Hi Crew (and Anthony if you're back)!!
<yep... last night <G>>
I wrote earlier about a shroom turning black and I removed it, etc.
The rock has been back in the main tank for several days and remaining 3 shroom healthy, alive and kicking.  I looked in the tank this a.m. and the two smallest are missing.   My other shroom frag has not been affected, but they are not big and juicy like these. I now have only one left and I have to think that my crabs are eating the Shrooms.  Is this possible?  
<yes... very possible... even likely with some species)
I have a Centropyge angel but have never seen him go near this rock.
<indeed a "nippy" genus with invertebrates>
We are changing over to a deep sand bed today, so I will be cleaning the tank.  Should I just keep my snails and put the crabs elsewhere?
<perhaps yes... even in the sump temporarily to see if that corrects the problem>
Am getting a very expensive large red shroom rock next week and would love to get this problem solved.  Have checked extensively on your web site and have found hints here and there, but I don't have a Mithrax, just red and blue legged crabs.
<perhaps there is a rogue hermit species mixed in that is not red or blue... do check the faces/legs for greens or hairy species>
Any help or ideas for me would really, really be appreciated!
Thanks in advance, Connie
<best regards, Anthony>

Crabs & mushrooms (reef tank) 3/30/03
Dear Crew:
<cheers, Connie>
I guess my previous letter got lost in the cracks or whatever.  
<not sure... fast and loose around here answering mail. Not intended to be sure <G>>
I have all of my crabs in quarantine pending your answer.  
<wise move>
I had a really nice frag with five Shrooms on it.  First two got smaller and turned black and I removed them.  Then a couple of days later I awoke and two had totally vanished.  Anthony told me that snails don't eat Shrooms,
<true of Astraea turbo snails (and related Turban-type species)... not all snails though. Many predatory species>
but vanishing overnight leads me to then suspect a crab.  I just switched to a deep sandbed this weekend (4"- a lot of work but worth it I hear).  I have a 60 gallon tank and about 20 each crabs and snails.  Maybe too many?  
<hard to say what is enough... or too much. Really depends on if you can grow enough (or add enough) food to feed them. 1 per ten gallons is a common ration bandied about for either (6 of each here)>
All water parameters excellent.  Thanks in advance for your guidance. Connie
<best regards, Anthony>

Someone is munching on my mushrooms - again
Hi everyone.  This is for Anthony if he is there.  
<cheers, Connie>
Anthony, I wrote you about crabs and mushrooms, and somehow got the idea that red legged crabs were okay.  
<likely yes... but we should be specific about what species of "red leg". In the big picture though... I avoid most any crabs for reef aquaria... they are true omnivores in most cases and quite opportunistic in time (read: risky)>
Since then I have put in a deep sandbed and I seeded it with my old crushed coral in mesh bags. A good idea, but there was brown algae in it too, and it has spread into the sandbed.  I can't remove it at the moment because as soon as I do, it comes back.  I have all kinds of tiny critters, worms, amphipods, copepods in the sandbed but they are still tiny.
<hmmm... have you tried increased water flow, more aggressive water changes and more aggressive skimming? Usually controls fine diatom growth easily>
So I got 6 red legged crabs to nosh on my brown algae and last night (it had to be them) they had thanksgiving dinner on my mushrooms.  
<they are candidates to be sure>
Main question:  Is there any kind of crab or other algae eater I can use until the new tiny residents in the sandbed get bigger.  My snails are not interest in crawling into the sandbed.
<as per above... more a matter of nutrient control... but if you need sifters... Nassarius snails are quite good. Brittle and serpents stars (most all except green brittle) are also good>
Thanks so much Anthony, and I am looking forward to receiving your book (autographed of course) shortly. Connie
<thanks for the enthusiasm... we hope you/all are pleased! Kind regards, Anthony>

Mushrooms
I have 5 different colonies of mushroom anemones. They
are all doing good except one of them. I is a huge
ten inch colony. When I purchased them on one corner
of the rock there was a 2 inch colony of zoanthids. 
When it was new all of the mushrooms were 2 inches
wide. They looked good for 2 weeks and now they have
shrank to only one inch. The zoanthids have now grown
in between the mushrooms. Do you thank the zoanthids
are the problem. If so how could I kill the
zoanthids. Could the mushrooms problem have to much
light. I have two 175 watt metal halide pendants. 
The mushrooms that are doing bad are about half way up
the tank. The ones that are doing good are about 5.5
inches below them. 
 >>
Hmm, well, generally mushrooms (Corallimorpharians) are the "winners" in such altercations with colonial anemones (zoanthids)... but as you state, maybe the conditions in your tank (bright lighting...) favor the zoanthids... 
Getting rid of them I wouldn't do directly... I'd leave them on their coral rock(s) island(s) and move the mushrooms... in the following manner to a different area/rock.
1) with a very sharp single edge razor blade (watch your fingers), cut some, all the mushrooms off, near the rock.
2) "tie" them onto the new rock with a bit of string, thread, fine fishing line... this can be removed later (in a few weeks) when the animals re-attach.
If the mushrooms are in good enough shape, some, all of them will make this transition... if they're left where they are... 
Bob Fenner

Mushroom question
I noticed that one of my mushrooms had been recently nibbled on, about half was taken off. I wasn't aware that anything ate them. but I guess not, anyways what could it be? I have two small urchins, I'm not sure of the species and one green Chromis waiting to be eaten by my lion. other than them, no one else in my tank has ever taken a bite out of my mushrooms. any ideas?
Jon Trowbridge
<The list is long... an unseen crustacean of some sort... many worm groups... even just microbes of some sort... Bob Fenner>

Amplexidiscus
Hello. I saw one of these at the LFS a few weeks ago,
and it is truly amazing and beautiful. I was thinking
of purchasing one for my reef. However, I read of
it's fish eating tendencies. What fish are largely at
risk? Do the mushroom need a "species" tank?
<yes... an impressive Corallimorph, but not to be underestimated. This mushroom can grow to a foot or more in diameter and eat fish the size of Yellow tangs. The event is relatively uncommon, but is still a concern. While many keep this animal in a mixed garden reef, a species tank (or at least a Zoantharians mostly/only tank isn't a terrible idea. Try achieving this animal here on WWM FAQ/Articles and beyond. Best regards, Anthony>