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Batfish & Robin
5/30/11
Teira Batfish Shedding
5/13/10 Re: Tiera Batfish Shedding... mis,
over-treatment 7/2/10 Re Tiera Batfish 7/4/10 Fish choices- spade fishes 04/23/2008 Mr. Fenner: <<Hello, Andrew today>> I have an aquarium that I am setting up, Plexiglas, which measures 6 feet long, 20 inches tall and 30" wide, about 190 gallons. <<Sounds a nice sized tank>> The tank will include a school of Chromis, flame hawk and a marine Betta. <<Nice>> I am interested in either a Tiera bat or an Orbiculate bat as the "star" attraction. Because of the height of the tank, would the Orbiculate be the better choice over the Tiera? <<Out of the two, yes, I would suggest the orb batfish would be the better choice as the centre piece.>> What other fish could I add to this mix without overcrowding the tank. <<Well, I would presume this is not a reef based system, so, your choices are pretty much open really. You have a nice amount of space to add more fish, along the lines of some tangs, some angels. Choose relatively semi-peaceful fish and they will get along fine>> Thank you for your help. Dennis <<Thanks for the message Dennis, hope this helps. A Nixon>> Help... Bat/Spade got konked 03/26/2008 Hello guys n gals, <<Hello, Andrew here today>> I have a new ten inch Orbiculate batfish (is tat how u measure them? from the upper tip to the lower tip of the fin?) the head is a little injured due to knocking into aquarium glass, but other than that it's cool. but it has been four days n it is not eating.. maybe it's the fact that I have a Volitans lionfish inside so all the live shrimps are eaten fast, what should I do? <<I would try target feeding the batfish with meaty foods such as scallop, enriched brine, shrimp chunks to entice it to start eating. Hope you realise how big the bat fish gets..>> I have a full grown 10-inch six bar angel inside the 1000Litre tank, and it sometimes chases the new batfish around.. Also, talking about the six bar angel, it's not feeding well. It doesn't really eat anything, apart from grazing at the live rocks.. Will you advice me on other methods or other kinds of food to offer to? To both the batfish and angel? <<Besides the live feeder shrimp, you don't state anything else as a food source. I would change their diet, as above, and try some target feeding to get them back into a good feeding regime?? I am very worried that if these marvelous fish will end up starving, and even dead.. Thanks, Bernard Yong <<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>> Batfish/Health/Systems And An Ozone ap. Question 3/13/08 Hi! I've had a Pinnatus Batfish for about 5 months - the front of his top fin is starting to erode. It had a white cotton like spot that is gone but now the area is starting to show signs of erosion. Water quality PH is 8.1, nitrate 0, ammonia 0, salinity 1.020. He seems to be happy, he eats shrimp soaked in VitaChem. He is in a 60 gallon Hexagon tank with a Marine Beta and a few blood shrimp. Are there any other nutritional supplements or foods I could use. Do you have any advice on how I can help him as he is such a delicate fish? <You're first question has already been answered and posted. See here. Batfish/Health/Systems 3/4/08 Hi! <Hi James. Always liked that name.> I've had a Pinnatus Batfish for about 5 months - the front of his top fin is starting to erode. It had a white cotton like spot that is gone but now the area is starting to show signs of erosion. Water quality pH is 8.1, nitrate 0, ammonia 0, salinity 1.020. He seems to be happy, he eats shrimp soaked in VitaChem. <Need a much more varied diet than what you offer.> He is in a 60 gallon Hexagon tank with a Marine Beta and a few Blood Shrimp. <I'm surprised the shrimp are still alive with the Comet for company. Tank is much too small for either of these fish. Offers very little swimming room.> Are there any other nutritional supplements or foods I could use. Do you have any advice on how I can help him as he is such a delicate fish? <Bi-monthly water changes, a good diet, and more room. As for foods, Mysis could be tried along with Ocean Nutrition's line of foods. New Spectrum pellets have been rated quite high as far as nutrition goes. Continue using the VitaChem or Selcon, does help. Do read here for more info on the Batfish. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spadfsh.htm Thanks for your help. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Jim Hoffman I have another question regarding using an ozone generator in my reef tank. Is it normal for the hoses to deteriorate after having it filtered through carbon? Will it deteriorate equipment like power heads and wiring for the protein skimmer and heater in that section of the sump that isn't filtered through carbon yet? <It could, but not enough info presented. How are you administering the ozone? If through a protein skimmer, does the skimmer have a place to filter out escaping ozone gas? Do read FAQ's here on ozone installation/application.> Thanks for your help. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Jim Batfish/Health/Systems 3/4/08 Hi! <Hi James. Always liked that name.> I've had a Pinnatus Batfish for about 5 months - the front of his top fin is starting to erode. It had a white cotton like spot that is gone but now the area is starting to show signs of erosion. Water quality pH is 8.1, nitrate 0, ammonia 0, salinity 1.020. He seems to be happy, he eats shrimp soaked in VitaChem. <Need a much more varied diet than what you offer.> He is in a 60 gallon Hexagon tank with a Marine Beta and a few Blood Shrimp. <I'm surprised the shrimp are still alive with the Comet for company. Tank is much too small for either of these fish. Offers very little swimming room.> Are there any other nutritional supplements or foods I could use. Do you have any advice on how I can help him as he is such a delicate fish? <Bi-monthly water changes, a good diet, and more room. As for foods, Mysis could be tried along with Ocean Nutrition's line of foods. New Spectrum pellets have been rated quite high as far as nutrition goes. Continue using the VitaChem or Selcon, does help. Do read here for more info on the Batfish. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spadfsh.htm Thanks for your help. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Jim Hoffman
Sexing Batfish - 10/24/06 Hello, <<Greetings>> I was wondering if you could tell me how tell the difference between male and female batfish. <<Hmm, don't know that it is possible without dissection...regardless of species. But do have a read here and among the associated links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spadfsh.htm >> Thanks -Julian Anemone incomp. with Ephippids! 7/25/06 This is more of a public service announcement: I refer to your site for all kinds of information. Last week I looked at your site to see if I could find what was killing my Condy. Well, the only thing I could find is that maybe I brought a crab in on a rock. NOPE, the beautiful BAT FISH attacked my LTA yesterday when I put it in the tank. She took 3 tentacles before I could get her out. Please tell your customers no batfish with anemone. <<Thank you for sharing your experience. We do not have ‘customers’. I do tell our readers to avoid keeping batfish in captivity. Lisa.>> Batfish & Tank Overview 3/29/06 Hi, firstly I would like to commend you on such a comprehensive and detailed website covering our great hobby. I am a 16 year old living in the UK, I have been keeping freshwater since I was 9, and marine since I was 13 - not much experience, but I have managed to upgrade several times in this period and have never lost any coral/invert and have only lost 1 fish - Heraldi Angel :( - so I feel I am doing quite well, and this is a lot due to your websites help. To the subject at hand, my latest project is a 130gallon tank, I will be moving the contents of my 80gallon tank - Yellow Tang, Dwarf Fairy Wrasse, 2 Female Red Sea Anthias (hope to gain a larger group in new tank) and my Cleaner Wrasse (I realize your concerns with the collection and purchase of Cleaner Wrasse but I inherited this one and it has lived happily for 3 years to my knowledge) and all my corals, mostly leathers, xenia etc. I will be running my 45gallon sump - Deltec APF600, UV Sterilizer, 5 Gallon filter floss chamber, 12gallon carbon chamber, various other medias including bio-ball trickle filter, ceramics, and 6" crushed coral bed throughout. I may add another 35gallon sump to include my Fluval 404 amongst other filter components, I would also like to grow Caulerpa in this tank to provide constant food for my tang. Does this all sound OK? <Yes... with the exception of the Caulerpa. I would seek out other genera, likely other Divisions. Please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/maralgae.htm Particularly the linked FAQs files at top> Also I have the option of receiving an Orbiculate batfish from one of my friends, it is currently 2.5" tall and extremely beautiful in my eyes. I wondered if it would be possible to keep it for a few years and then move it on. <Yes... but I assure you, it will likely become a dear pet and exceedingly hard to part with> It's just that batfish very rarely become available on the British market and I don't want to let this chance go. Please could you advise, or suggest other suitable fish?? <There are many... detailed on WWM> Many thanks in advance :) and keep up the good work :) Bailey <Life to you my young friend. Bob Fenner> FOWLR Feature Fish 1/20/06 Good Morning Crew! I am looking for a "feature fish" for a FOWLR tank. My goal is a long-lived, interactive pet that we can spoil rotten for years to come. I have a standard 90 gal (48") with about 1" oolithic sand, 60 lbs LR and 30 lbs LR rubble that is running nicely, and is currently "vacant". Filtration is protein skimming followed by DSB refugium with Chaeto used primarily for nutrient export. I am willing to keep it solo in order to minimize aggression, tank volume limitations, etc. I would prefer some star-quality, but am willing to sacrifice looks for personality. My current "short list" is topped by an Aussie Tuskfish, followed by any suitable trigger, but I am concerned about my tank size. I want to provide a suitable long-term home. I love the look of p. Volitans, but am curious if they show any interaction. They seem rather indifferent to me. <Almost all are> I have had great success with small reef/invert tanks, but I have never kept a larger marine fish before. I am open to any/all suggestions. PS, I am a long-time reader , thank you folks for what you do! Sincerely, G-Rak Perhaps a Tiera or Orbic Batfish... Either a great "aqua dog". Bob Fenner> If You Don't Buy It, They Will Quit Importing It 11/25/05 Dear crew <<Hello Ignatio - Ted here>> Recently I bought 1 juvenile (4 inch tall) Platax pinnatus. He is housed in my 100 gallon tank. It's been 6 days up to now, and he is eating live brine shrimp plus open brain coral. After reading in your pages, I'm a little frightened that this species is always doomed in captivity. <<Your concern is correct. This species does very poorly in captivity.>> I just wonder why P. pinnatus cannot be kept alive, refuses food in captivity and dies mysteriously? Do you have any trick to keep alive this specimen? <<P. pinnatus do not ship well, arrive in poor health, are poor eaters and are shy and retiring (and so do not compete well for food). The are no tricks for keeping this species alive in captivity. If there were, trust me, we would share them with you and everyone else who mistakenly purchases this species. This fish, like Zanclus cornutus, should not be imported and should be left in the wild.>> Best regards Ignatio <<Regards-Ted>> Keeping Batfishes in Captivity 12/2/04 <Pufferpunk again> It's on WetWebMedia in the brackish section <I don't see it there. What I do read about the more commonly available species is this: "proves almost impossible to keep alive, generally refusing all food. This species is secretive in the wild, found hiding in wrecks and other dark spots, and should be left there. In my estimation, less than one hundredth of pinnatus bats live more than a month in captivity." & on spadefish: "Spadefishes can be summarily ignored by aquarists on a handful of damning characteristics. 1) They're very skittish in captivity; nervousness showing in difficulty in adjusting to small volumes, poor eating, "mysterious" deaths. 2) They're really only happy in groups... and 3) They get pretty darned big, some more than two feet long, and at least that tall." In addition to their being marine fishes.> -is there any marine fish that can be kept in brackish water? <Many marine fish visit BW occasionally, but are not to be kept there long-term, by any means. Even most BW fish wind up needing SW as adults. Please research the fish you choose carefully. ~PP. Success with a Platax pinnatus Bob, <John> I was just showing a friend your page on Platax pinnatus, which I found doing a search to show him pics of a juvenile. (Very very nice website, by the way.) The pic I carry in my wallet is of mine at 3 yrs. <Neat> Your page mentions that there are few and only anecdotal stories of success. Mine is one of those. I bought my fish as a juvenile, about 6" tall, in 1980. I kept her alone the whole time I had her. I kept her in low salinity water (.012 to .018) which I varied seasonally with the amount of light she got during the day, in an attempt to mimic a natural environment on some level. I fed her brine shrimp occasionally, but mainly shark, shrimp, and butterfish. At 3 years after purchase, she stopped eating, which I took to be a sign of breeding readiness, and was disturbed when her appetite didn't return. After 5 weeks, I finally took a set of pictures, figuring she would die soon, but she started eating the morning after the pictures were taken; I can only speculate on the timing. She lived another 18 months, and died only because I didn't have the money to put her in a bigger tank. At death, she was 18" tall and 13" long, and just needed more swimming room than I could give her. I had her 4 yrs, 5 mo.s, and 10 days, but who counts? <I do> She got several Oodinium infections right after I got her, but responded well to freshwater dips. Her left pectoral fin didn't move much, and she didn't move her left operculum at all. I never knew why, exactly, but took it to indicate a cyanide capture. <Possible, but doubtful... this is an easy fish to collect with a hand net as a juvenile> Her lack of respiratory area meant that I had to spend one entire night with her in my hand, moving her through the water, to force water across her gills, while she was recovering from an Oodinium onslaught. Once she got stabilized in the tank (60 days?) she was never infected again. As you mention, she was a great fish. She recognized me and would do any number of tricks for me. If I put my hand in the tank, she'd come over and rub up against me. She was a good friend. Thanks for a great website. John <Thank you for adding your keen observations and recall to it. Bob Fenner> Force feeding batfish Hi Bob - <Collin> First of all thanks for all the great information on WetWebMedia.com. It has become a go to site for me when I need to research something. <Glad to have good friends to put it out> I have a Platax pinnatus that I am trying to help along and could not find the article on force feeding them. <Mmm, the piece by Jay Hemdal in a FAMA years back?> It has not fed yet since it was introduced yesterday and I may need to resort to this and would like to know how it is done. Would it be possible for you to explain this or fax/email me your copy of Jay Hemdal's FAMA 10-85 article on this topic? <Can't send out other people's work... and am trying to think of where Jay is working... somewhere back east in a public aquarium. Maybe it's listed in the review I did on his book "Aquarium Careers": http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqcareers.htm Nope, don't see it...> I am going to try feeding live blood worms/brine today as well. Do you have any other suggestions? My fax number is XXXXX. Please mark it attention "Collin Davis" Any help you can provide to keep this amazing animal alive would be much appreciated. Thanks, Collin Davis. <The gist of this technique is the making of a soluble mash of foods, the application of a soft tube/catheter, gently holding the fish underwater (in a wet towel let's say that is detergent and soap free) and inserting the catheter far enough into the back throat to apply food through. Bob Fenner, who had nothing but bad fortune with trying to keep this species and eventually gave up.> Re: force feeding pinnatus batfish II 7/28/04 Bob: Thank you for your response. I have been searching hard for this article. I have a brother checking the University of Indiana, I have been to our city and state libraries here in Bismarck, ND. I have found that the St. Paul, MN library may have the article, but I cannot get them motivated to do the research. I offer to pay whatever and it still gets nothing done. Is there any way I could get a copy of the article from you. I would be happy to pay any expense incurred plus if you need something for the trouble. My only other option is to simple take this creature, hold him down, and use a plastic pipette to force food into his mouth. I simply do not know the best procedure, but time is definitely running out. Any possibility of help? Bob Bachmeier >> Bob Fenner> Re: Force feeding batfish III 7/28/04 Thank you for the help. With regards to sending the article, apparently Jay does not mind having this article sent out. After all this is for the sake of the fish which might otherwise die. Here is an excerpt from one of your FAQs, if at all possible the article or a contact on how to acquire a copy would be very much appreciated. Once again, my fax is 310-449-7025. <We are NOT a service for distributing such works, but I will send you this due to the potential loss of your specimen... understand, there are some 13,000 visitors to the root web daily... Bob Fenner> - Platax pinnatus Possible? - Boy, I wish I had you as a resource when I purchased a Platax pinnatus several years ago. I had discus in the past and was very successful so thought that I would do salt and just have one or 2 trophy fish. After growing algae for several months during the cycle time, I introduced a large lion fish and a gorgeous bat to the tank. It took just several days for me to notice a large lump on the Bat's side. I took him back to the store and he died. I never did salt or batfish again. Is it possible to raise these critters in captivity? <Not easily... the trick is always getting them to eat, and even the most experienced hobbyists have difficulties with this fish.> What do they look like as adults? <Not nearly as good as they do as juveniles - they tend to turn grey and lose the orange pin striping.> Stephanie <Cheers, J -- > Re: Bat PS: The Bat is fine now and is looking forward to a new home in a public display aquarium near to where we live. This was arranged when we bought him quite a few years ago as we realize the size these fish can attain. <Ah, good. Am sure this will result in a much longer, happier life for this animal. Your love for its well-being is obvious. Bob Fenner> Batfishes Dear Bob, <Neale> I just came across your articles on the batfishes. I've included them in my FAQ as some species at least do occur in mangroves and estuaries, and a few aquarists might care to try to replicate this at home. Anyway, I've just added a link to your article which goes into much more depth that I want to. I have some experience with Platax orbicularis but not with the others, so that information is culled form books and e-mails. If you have any comments or corrections, I'd be happy to include them. http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/brackfaq.html#BM7b Sincerely, Neale Neale Monks, Ph.D. Editor, Brackish Water Aquarium FAQ <Nothing to add. I like your "writing style" and cautionary remarks for aquarists re this species. Thank you for sending this link along. Bob Fenner> Bat Man! (Enjoying His Batfish!) First off I'd like to thank the entire staff for help and knowledge. WWM is on my favorites list for quick reference. <Glad to hear that! We enjoy bringing the site to you every day!> I have just obtained an Orbic Bat! He immediately became one of the tank members upon introduction. No hassles with anyone and he knew almost immediately where the feeding station was. Such a friendly fish just like my V-tail. I can't find any FAQ about the compatibility of these fish and hard or soft corals or anemones. <I would not consider them "reef-safe" by any means. They can eat all kinds of inverts, corals, and even nibble on some anemones!> My fish family is in a 125 with about 50 lbs of live rock, W&D. Also housing a Foxface, Dwarf Lion, a tank raised Percula, a V-tail and a snowflake. The Jewel damsel has been removed to a "prison" tank until I decide what to do with him. So cute when small but go to be Jumbos and bossy. <Yep! Nasty little guys. The batfish can get quite large (like around 20 inches), so keep this in mind for the future!> The new line up is getting along smoothly but would like to add a few other life forms. Thanks................Lance...will be reading you!!! <Well, Lance, I'd think about "freezing" the fish population where it is for now. As far as adding other life forms is concerned, you may have to do some experimenting. Otherwise, you will be introducing some pretty expensive "munchies" for the batfish! Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.> Large batfish question WWM Crew, I'm thinking of purchasing the batfish Platax tiera for my 600 gal. tank. My question is, what is the height requirement for this fish? I know they get very tall and don't want to cramp the fishes style, so to speak. Thanks! Rochelle <A good two feet of height will do here... so at six hundred gallons you should be fine... unless your tank is going to be very squat. Bob Fenner> - Keeping Batfish - Thank you for your comments. <My pleasure.> In regards to the batfish... is it cruel to have him in the tank I currently have him in? <I don't know how tall you are, but consider this: if you were six feet tall, and lived in a house with five foot ceilings... how would you feel?> Within a year or two, I plan on getting a bigger tank and I will be able to give him more space, but is that too far away? <Much too far, I'm afraid. These fish are very cute when small, but they grow VERY fast - to the point you can almost watch them grow - and will be close to adult size within a year.> If necessary, my LFS will probably take him for their display tank, but I hate to see him go if he can be happy in the 120 for a while. <It's a matter of tank height, and so I'd be willing to bet the tank at your LFS isn't appropriate either. These fish get tall enough to where a 36" high tank is not tall enough.> I do realize his space/territory needs, which is why I have kept this tank lightly stocked. <Territory has little to do with it.> Is keeping this fish for the long term a lofty goal? <Yes... not impossible, but would require a custom tank within the next six months, and for the ongoing care of this animal.> Again, thanks for your comments and have a super day! <You too. Cheers, J -- > Batfish compatibility Hi there. I have just recently purchased a small 2 inch tall Orbic Batfish from the store I work at. I have done my research and do realize that they will get 20 inches over time and will need at least a 200 gallon. I am making enough money that I will be able to afford one before long. But while doing research on the web for info on Bats I found sites with very conflicting ideas on batfish compatibility. One site stated that batfish can not be combined what so ever, and another site said that Orbic bats are a schooling fish. <Are a schooling species in the wild... can be mixed with most all species in captivity> The reason I ask this is because I love the Tiera batfish and would love to put one with the little bat I have now. Will this work or no. <Should be fine. Make sure both get food> The little Orbic that we have now is a little pig and loves food.... a lot!!! Thanks in advance for any help that you can give. Kim, 17. <Be chatting. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com> Batfish suppliers in Toronto region Hello Bob, would you know of any reputable batfish suppliers in the Toronto, Canada area, or any that would ship to Toronto? <Please contact the etailers of livestock listed here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marlinks.htm> Would you know of anyone that has been successful in breeding any varieties of batfish? <None that I'm aware of. Could likely be done with the family Ephippidae as with its closely related families of the suborder Acanthuroidei... some of these have been aquacultured... Would take a large system... likely hormonal manipulation. Long planktonic larval stage/periods. Bob Fenner> Thank you, Drew Riedstra Batfish in Brackish Tank Hi everybody, how are you tonight? <very well... thank you. I hope this finds you in good health and spirit as well> I was in my favorite pet store today, and I absolutely fell in love with two little two inch long batfish. I have read they can live in brackish water. <er... some species and only as juveniles for a matter of months. They are marine species and if bought in seawater... seawater they stay in> I was wondering just how brackish it had to be? <too heavy for most other brackish species and the tank will need to go to full seawater in 8 to 18 months> Would I be able to keep them in my 125 gallon show tank with a few assorted large cichlids? <hehe... if it was any of the common Platax batfish species... then without the cichlids they will still outgrow your 125 gallon in 3-5 years! They are huge ugly adults... reference a picture of these big grey diamonds as adults> I have about 1/4 cup of sea salt per gallon in there. About half the salinity of my salt water tanks. I've had a scat in there for a few months now, and he's doing fine with that setup. So I thought maybe the batfish would be all right with it too. What do you think? <too salty and too big. I'd pass on it. Batfish make freshwater Oscars look like slow growing minnows!!!> Thanks for your help, and Goodnight, Kristen:) <best regards, Anthony> Permission Dear Mr. Fenner, I am working on a class project on Orbiculate Batfish, and would like to use the following image from your web site: http://www.marinedepotlive.com/363454.html. I will put a picture credit immediately under the image and a link to your web page. This is a noncommercial educational project. Thank you <You are welcome to this use. Wish I could quickly send you some of the stills and video of Platax we've recently made here in Australia. Bob Fenner> Awaiting, Elexis Kabbelliya Atlantic Spadefish? Hello Mr. Fenner, I am currently treating my 135gal. tank with copper. I believe that I might have Ich, but most likely Amyloodinium (or velvet). It seems to affect the fishes gill's before I really start seeing it on the fish. The reason I am writing you is that just 2 days into the copper treatment (I have not quite reached .15 yet) my spadefish seem to now be peppered with this fine white powdery stuff. Is copper too strong for this fish? <No. Ephippids, their family, are fine with therapeutic copper dosages> They seem fine and are eating well, but no other fish in the tank has been affected like this. Also, I read somewhere that Formalin is effective when used with copper, what do you think? How about malachite green? <These are very strong, caustic/toxic chemicals... I would not use them in your tank/s. Perhaps as dip/bath additions. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm> The other fish in my tank are Searobins, flounders, Foxfaces, Dottyback, sergeant major, and a domino damsel (his respiration is most affected by this disease). Thank you very much for your time, Steve Tilotta <Steve, please read through the entire marine disease section on WetWebMedia.com including the many FAQs posted there. You need to have a good, clear, complete understanding of what your possibilities are... and to develop and adhere to a consistent treatment regimen. It is absolutely important to the life of your stock. Bob Fenner> Re: Atlantic Spadefish? Thank you very much for a very prompt and thorough reply. Steve <You are welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> Orbic Bat mixing in Hi Bob, I have an Orbic Bat that has outgrown my 75 gallon tank. I am planning on donating it to a local school with a 1000 gallon tank but am unsure if it will be compatible with the present inhabitants. The tank has a French Angel, several spade fish, a small Leopard shark, a Niger trigger, several Heniochus, and a few small tangs. I would appreciate your input on this. Thank you. Russ <What a tank for a school! This is a pretty smart species... and though it looks slow, and at times acts like a pushover, I give it good odds of becoming the show specimen of this tank. Bob Fenner> Pinnatus batfish hi, bob. I have written to you about this subject a couple of days ago. I told you my setup and that I had ordered a pinnatus and you told me to cancel. well, I called on the following business day but it was to late. they had already ship it. I have gotten him in and I have released him into the tank according to your specs. I had asked you how hard it was to get a pinnatus feeding and you said that it was nearly impossible. well, I let him sit in the tank with the lights off for 3-4 hours and he started to come around. I have fed him flake food and he is eating well. now, if I can keep him eating, does he have a good chance of living or is there other problems that cause trouble with them in captivity? <Will try to relate more, same of my same experiences with this species... Have had experiences with maybe a hundred individuals myself over the years of owning, working in the retail side, having customers insist on their getting them. Maybe three have lived a month... Some ate, most did not, all died "mysteriously" mostly at night (dead in the AM) or "just went in the corner and died" during the day... The folks I've heard had success keeping any period of time (months to a couple of years) either force fed, ala Jay Hemdal's FAMA advice or were "lucky" to have specimens that ate and ate...> I have read on WetWebMedia about you opinion on pinnatus and that is the only reason you gave for them not adapting in captivity, not eating. from time to time he swims on his side rather than up and down like normal. is this a bad sign? please give me some advice about him living if he continues to eat. thanks Dallas <The swimming behavior you relate is "normal"... mimicking species of Mangrove tree leaves... Good luck my friend. Bob Fenner, who gave up on a challenge of Pizza and Beer (very serious) with a friend, Fred Kuperstein (still in the retail here as Clairemont Tropical, San Diego) of keeping one of three specimens of my choice alive for a week... I lost> Force feeding pinnatus batfish Hi. Recently I made a trip to the only saltwater fish store in Bismarck, ND, to purchase some frozen brine shrimp. There, in one of this pet stores dismal tanks was a p. pinnatus. I knew this fish would certainly die if someone did not take him and make every attempt to get him feeding. I knew I was throwing money away, but I decided I needed to try. Needless to say, he is resisting all attempts to get him feeding. I am searching for an article by J.F. Hemdal on force feeding so I can learn the proper technique. Can you help me locate it or can you describe a force feeding technique to me. This beautiful creature should be given its best chance for survival. Thank you for your help! Bob Bachmeier <Do know of the piece... have it in my family Ephippidae file: FAMA 10/85, pp. 18,19... Freshwater and Marine Aquarium magazine back in 1985 ran it... do you have access to a larger college library? And yes to force feeding this dismally low-survival species... it does/can work... do it NOW. Bob Fenner, who is hoping the specimen is still alive.> Re: force feeding pinnatus batfish Bob: Thank you for your response. I have been searching hard for this article. I have a brother checking the University of Indiana, I have been to our city and state libraries here in Bismarck, ND. I have found that the St. Paul, MN library may have the article, but I cannot get them motivated to do the research. I offer to pay whatever and it still gets nothing done. Is there any way I could get a copy of the article from you. I would be happy to pay any expense incurred plus if you need something for the trouble. My only other option is to simple take this creature, hold him down, and use a plastic pipette to force food into his mouth. I simply do not know the best procedure, but time is definitely running out. Any possibility of help? Bob Bachmeier >> <Yes. I am almost positive Jay (Hemdal) would not object to my sending a facsimile of his work in this case. I will gladly fax (this would be best) the two pages along for free. At what number? Bob Fenner> Bat fish I was skimming through your wetwebmedia.com (a great resource along with your book and personal advice via email btw) and I saw your article on batfish. I am really looking for a nice hardy, beautiful fish with great personality. My main concern is compatibility and ultimate size. I have a 125 gallon tank w/ wet dry trickle filter and venturi skimmer. The batfish's tankmates would be - Maculosus angel - Black durgeon trigger - Sohal tang - Panther grouper ( or possibly a purple tang instead) would my tank be tall/long enough? My angel and trigger are both about 5 1/2," what size batfish should I get? Will the trigger/ angel bother and nip on the batfishes fins? They are both moderately aggressive (I'd say 5 on a scale of 1-10). <Hmm, a Tiera or Orbicularis would be great with this mix of fishes... but your tank is going to be getting too crowded... in months as it is... Do you have a "crystal ball" or plans on getting a much larger system? If not, I'd stick with the Purple Tang, and stop there with the fish stocking en toto.> thanks for the honest advice, I think I will stick w/ four fish. My question is if even then the tank would become overcrowded ( assuming I have the just angel, durgeon, purple tang and Sohal). Also, could I interchange a batfish for one of the tangs or does the bat just get to big for this system? Once again, thank-you - Yaron >> You could do the exchange... but in my opinion, the Batfish would be too big, probably within a year to two years, for this size system. Bob Fenner Orbic Bats How hardy are Orbic batfish? I've read your book but you include almost no mention of these beautiful creatures. I'll be keeping a FFExpress's small in a 55 gal for about a year. His roommates are a dragon goby, a yellow tang and a pair of false Percula clowns. >> This is a fabulous aquarium species (Platax orbicularis)... that will soon be more like a dog following your every move than a "fish"... It eats most any/everything with gusto... and gets big-fast, so take it easy on meal times... as it can easily get too big in a fifty five within a year... Bob Fenner, who reminds you that the original CMA was a little over 1,100 pages... be careful what you wish for!~ batfish Thank you for the info. I did some more looking, the flame angel looks like a great show fish. I think I'll probably go with one of those. but I was also looking into a Hawkfish. Reading your article on them they didn't sound like there were going to have any problem with my other fish. But checking the compatibility chart on FFExpress it said that moray eels and Hawkfish are not compatible??? Let me give you a breakdown of what my 50g tank will look like when I'm done. Snowflake Eel Porcupine Puffer Lawnmower Blenny 2 blue damsels flame angel Hawkfish (Longnose perhaps?) Do you think there's any problem with this many? (I'm willing to get rid of the damsels if need be). Thanks again. Steve >> Mmm, interesting... well, don't know their logic here... maybe the eel would feel put out with a near-bottom feeding-competitor? Anyhow, I'll stick with my opinion, hawks (family Cirrhitidae) are fine in settings like yours... with eels (as long as they're not so humongous as to swallow the hawk... or everybody else)... and that you have no shrimp... too tasty a tempting meal for Hawkfishes (and most eels)... Bob Fenner
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