Marine West Coast Importers 5/17/08
Crew-
<Craig>
Can any of the industry-experienced members of your team refer the company name of some marine livestock importers on the west coast (I would think LA area) that would be worth the flight out there to visit?
<Sure>
I am looking for a specific variant on some anemones and SPS and what I keep hearing from both online and local retailers is: "We don't have the animals in-house, we deal with a warehouse on the west coast who imports the animals. We order from them and thus can't really promise to deliver what you are looking for." So it looks like if I am going to be able to get what I am looking for I am going to have to get an import/export license and go collect it myself
<Mmm, much to go over re this premise>
or I am personally going to have to visit these large import hubs and see if I have any luck.
Regards,
Craig
<There's quite a few... but some of the best are situated on/off 104th... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Pacific Aquafarms, Underwater World... A bit more out of the way, but still worth visiting are All Seas (in El Segundo) and Black Coral... even ERI... Bob Fenner>

Pet business questions  3/9/08
Hi to All,
<Alfred>
I am presently opening a 1800 square foot aquarium store specializing in fish, plants, corals.
<Ahh! Congratulations!>
I have never actually worked in the business as a retailer but I have done some aquarium service.
<VERY different experiences...>
I have a good head for business and work does not scare me.
<Seven days a week... I do hope you have a hands-on equity partner, other good help...>
My question in short is How many dry good suppliers will you need to adequately stock a store.
<At least two good ones...>
I noticed that some have certain products which are limited and others carry a full line but the prices may not be as good.
<Yes>
I have made contact and opened accounts with Central Pet and Royal Pet. Could you please give a short list of the DG suppliers you feel would benefit a new store in the NY Westchester area.
<These two are good choices... I would "interview" others you can find through Pet-Business Buyer's Guide, the online resources of the APPMA...>
I read your article on live stock dealers being concentrated in the airports and such. And don't know how to go about establishing relationships with them.
<Contact them... via the Net, the phone... best, if at all practical, in person...>
I have been getting stock lists from HIFI-Marindo, their prices seem very good, and wondered if you have any experience or insight in doing business with them.
<None to share carte blanche on the Net, with someone I don't know...>
I have taken your advice and subscribed to all of the possible trade magazines and am currently waiting for them to begin arriving.
<Ahh, good! Not much directly of use in any given issue... but with a discerning mind, reading betwixt the lines... much can be gleaned>
Outside of designing the store layout and negotiating the commercial lease; I feel getting the best prices for my end of the products and livestock is ultimately paramount to my success.
<And that partner, and employees?>
All Help is appreciated.
P.S. If one of these topics was already discussed in detail don't bother answering the question just direct me to the discussion. I must have missed it and do apologize for being redundant.
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
Alfred Idone
Allstar Aquarium LLC
Thinking about an Aquarium for your Home or Office ? Looking for Aquarium Service or
Products at Discount Prices ? Take a Look at my Web-Site :
www.allstaraquarium.com

Retail Store... is it right for you?   3/2/08
Hi,
<Brian>
If possible this question is directed towards Mr. Fenner since it is about some of the comments he has made. I've been in the finance business for about 15 years and always ran my own companies and been quite successful, but am rapidly getting burnt out. My hobby has always been aquariums, ponds, boating, etc, my whole life and is becoming a passion of mine.
<Ahhh!>
So, I started up a maintenance business for aquariums and expanded into getting a retail license and carrying my own livestock, corals, and dry goods for my clients in one of my back offices and it has been going well. We are actually starting to get walk ins, which is a problems, since it is at my office and not a fish store. The next logical step in my mind was to open a retail store.
<Mmmm, a tough choice... limiting ones "freedom" in many ways...>
The city I live in is 150k people with 300k in the metro area.
<This is enough... is the business "developed" much there... many, any good competitors already?>
There are only three other saltwater fish stores and they are horrible.
<Ohh, this is a liability>
You can tell they were opened by hobbyist and not somebody with any business since.
<sense>
The one has already offered to sell me his store, but it is junk and going bankrupt. The 2nd is what I would call a fish snob. Only carries the highest end products, won't sale small aquariums because they are worth their time and everybody is stupid in their eyes. The third is actually a nice shop, but they focus on Africans and only have a couple of
salt tanks. The market is wide open, and being that my background is running and marketing companies, this seemed like a good opportunity.
<Mmmm... there are different foci for retail vs. service... some overlap, but... Do you intend to manage the store? Do you have an equity partner?>
However, everything I read on your site says this is the worst thing ever. Don't do it.
<Heeeeee! Purposely negative... a screening tool if you will...>
Following is a quote from you just last month when someone wrote they had resisted opening a retail shop. <Thank goodness... more time, trouble than it is worth. Definitely a "step in the wrong direction" I assure you>
<From service, this is almost always the case>
Am I really missing something? Is it really that bad?
<Can be... but only experience, personal... can tell for sure... Better for most folks to "open a show room" of sorts instead... NOT have regular hours, go on to other aspects... custom fabrication, installs... NOT retail... almost exclusively different customer bases>
I spoke to Aquarium Adventures, a large aquatic store franchise about joining them instead of on my own and they tell me they have stores grossing over a million a year.
<Talk with some, a few of the established (a few years) owner/operators re up and downsides... what's their net? What liabilities?>
The owner has to be netting at least 150 to 250k a year.
<Uh, no>
Since I still own my other companies, I was going to open my own instead of buying the franchise, but everything I've read is making me second guess my decision. Please clarify this for me.
Concerned,
Brian
<VERY important decisions/paths to choose, commit to... I implore you to physically visit, "live" in one of these stores for a few weeks... Bob Fenner>

Wet Web Banner  2/27/08
Hi Bob,
<Hello Peggy>
I'd like to add the Wet Web Media banner/link to my Home page of my website. Would you be interested? I try to direct people to worthwhile, accurate, and educational sites, and yours is surely one of them. If you're interested, please shoot your banner over and I'll have my web designer add it to our Home page.
<Mmm, okay... please find attached>
Thanks Bob, and I hope this finds you enjoying your Wednesday afternoon! I'm off to clean some newly acquired live rock. Sounds romantic doesn't it? :O)
Peggywww.all-reef.com
Your Source for Premium Quality Marine Livestock, Fully-Cured Live Rock, and Dry Goods!
<Oh, how do I wish all LFSs owners were as conscientious, involved, intelligent/conversant as you... When, over the years, folks have asked me why I haven't quite the trade... it's friends like you that I point to that I'd not miss being in the company of. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Can you help? Aq. industry... ready?    2/8/08
Hello Mr Fenner, <Constantine>I am reaching out to you to see if you can possibly help me. I know you are a very busy man so If you cannot help, I completely understand. As of May 2007, I took on a venture to devote my life to the business of marine ornamentals/corals/etc.
<Mmm, why?>
I have had an increasingly hard time in trying to find exporters to supply me with corals. I have been the victim of fraud twice in Indonesia sending over $10,000 but no product. <Who?>I really want to make this work. I'm trying to get good reputable contacts so I can place an order and I'm a little hesitant with everything I find on the internet. I know many see the industry as cut throat so getting info by word of mouth is virtually non-existent in my circles. <Not amongst "A" players... we need to start further back in this conversation>I have a thorough business plan that has taken 1.5 years to complete. I operate a small 900 square foot warehouse space
<Too small...>
and I'm doing well with inverts/drygoods, etc, but I want to take it to the next level. I have searched WWM high and low, and can't seem to find this information.
<...? What information?>
you can help in any way I would greatly appreciate it. Sincerely Constantine
<Who are you? Have you worked in the trade before? In what capacity? For whom? Bob Fenner>

Salt water fish... umm, acclimation... English? Transshipping... not yet.
HI,
I need to know how can we acclimate salt water fish which we get in transship as it dies after few days also when we put fish in tank it start swimming in circles.
<What? Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thank You
Maq

New aquatic business  11/28/2007
Mr. Fenner,
<Daniel>
I am looking to start up a new Aquatic business. I have read over a lot of your information on your web pages, which has been very helpful!, when I read that it would be smart to get a consultant to help. I have decided to do so, but I was curious if you had any recommendations in the Dallas Fort Worth, Texas area. Thanks in advance!
Daniel J
<What sort of "aquatic business" do you have in mind? A store? Manufacture? Service? Have you worked in the field before? Bob Fenner>

Re: New aquatic business   11/29/07
Bob Fenner,
"<What sort of "aquatic business" do you have in mind? A store? Manufacture?
Service? Have you worked in the field before? Bob Fenner>"
Sorry to be so vague. I am looking at starting a fresh and marine store with aquarium service.
<Ahh!>
I have worked some in the field, and I have also been a hobbyist for many years.
Thanks!
Daniel
<I see... have you actually worked in these aspects/fields in our trade? Have you started re location, possible layouts/fixturing? You have adequate financing in place? I do hope you plan on having at least one equity AND work partner... Have you committed the business to paper, planning? Do you have business and marketing plans you would have me look over? BobF>

Re: New aquatic business  12/12/07
Bob Fenner,
<Daniel>
We have committed the plan to paper, and are looking to move forward.
<Ahh!>
We do have financing in place. The next step we would like to take is have a consultant look over our information. Would you be willing to do this, or direct us to a consultant familiar with the trade?
<I will gladly glance over... Am not "in your town" and not recently active in the trade itself, but will gladly make reference to where else you might fill the gaps here>
A concern we have is posting our business plan on the internet where others might "beat us to the punch" at the location we are looking at.
Thanks again!
Daniel
<I would not, will not post your specific business and marketing plans, location et al.. BobF>

Wholesalers... reef    7/20/07
Hello,
<Hello to you also>
First off I wanna say you guys have a great source of information on this site ive followed it for awhile and great job.
<Thank you>
Second off I have a couple questions and was hoping you guys could steer me in the right direction. Im in the process of starting an online retail business for Saltwater corals and cleaners (hermits snails shrimp etc.)... Im having a hard time finding any suppliers that will sell to the general jobber. I see a lot of people that sell online and don't have a actual store front... Again hope you guys can steer me in
the right way for a distributor.
<To be able to buy from wholesalers it is required that you obtain a business license, federal tax resale number, business bank account, business cards, etc. The first things to do is obtain these items and then build your online store. Once you have all of these and your online store is active the wholesalers will be happy to service you.>
<Thanks Rich aka Mr. Firemouth>

Looking to start a pet business in the GWN   3/8/07
I currently live in Nova Scotia and I want to open a pet shop I was wondering if you could give me information about how much and what i need to open a pet store I want to sell pets and supplies you can email me or my husband at XXXX@eastlink.ca or XXXX@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Mr. & Mrs. Allen
<Congratulations on your enterprise... Much to relate to you... and thankfully most all I know is committed to print and archived here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Do take your time carefully reading through the articles and FAQs files here... and making good notes. And do write me back at Bob or
Crew@WetWebMedia.com with specific questions, comments, or additions. Bob
Fenner>

Re: One more question. New LFS in Nova Scotia! Where can I buy pets and supplies?  – 03/09/07
<... I'd ask your not-too near competitors where they order theirs... and look on the Net for pet trade associations, periodicals... in your part of Canada.
Likely Hagen... Bob Fenner>

Re: One more question  – 03/09/07
Thank you very much and sorry for being a pest.
<No worries... Is important... If there is enough time, DO try to attend a few of the industry trade shows... Have you folks worked in the trade before? Very valuable investment... Do read over the input in the WWM Aquatics Business subweb... Bob Fenner>

Re: One more question... refusing to read/study the WWM Aquatics Business Subweb  3/9/07
No we haven't worked in any trades but I have taken a business course just can not seem to find very much on the web or very many people to ask questions.
<Read... where you've been referred to... You need to work in the retail pet-fish trade... ahead of investing much... BobF>

Import License - 10/22/2006
Hello Bob and crew,
<Greg>  
I am starting a wholesale marine facility in Pennsylvania.  So far it is going great!  Do I need an import license from USFW to import live rock and corals directly from Jakarta, Indo, Soloman Islands, etc.?
<Mmm, not as far as I'm aware... will need to apply for CITES clearance each shipment>
I have the suppliers, but do not want to forward money before I get this cleared up.
<Mmm... a comment... unless you know the folks involved VERY well, I would NOT send money... a wire transfer can be arranged to be more or less simultaneous with the shipments... or better still, a credit issued pending....>
Also, would it be best to have the shipments arrive first in LAX, clear customs, then forward to Philadelphia or Newark?  
<You'll want to check re the time frames and cost of each... I would enlist the help of a freight forwarder in all cases>
Should I contact a customs broker for this?  
<Yes... there are prominent ones that deal in our trade at every airport that receives livestock. BobF, in Indonesia presently>
Thanks for your help!
Greg

Re this website. Franchisee's valuable input  10/5/06
Dear Bob:
I am the owner of a Global Pet Foods franchise (10yrs)
<http://www.franchisegator.com/cgi-bin/profile.php?key=1210>
and we expanded into tropical fish approx 5 yrs ago.
<Congrats>
We now have 28 aquariums in the store and a great reputation for "good" fish - we have a Wal-Mart in our area which helps!!!  
<Mmm, am hoping you're not be facetious here... That this mass-merchandiser does have good staff, yields good service... Bad competitors are the trades worse enemies, stagnators of growth>
We have also developed a reputation for "oddballs" and this is where I find your site very helpful.
<Heeee heeeee! Have been called much worse!>
  I have learned a great deal about Bichirs and rope fish etc (fascinating creatures) and currently have 4 large p. senegalus in my show tanks.  I was also reading about the person who bought a rope fish from a "crappy pet store".  My advice to anyone purchasing fish - or any other pet for that matter - is to "quiz" the store staff extensively and, if the answers are not satisfactory,  SHOP ELSEWHERE.
<Good advice>
Do not promote stores such as these which, frankly, should not be in business!  Before we bring in any kind of animal/fish/reptile etc. we research on the net and with customers to make sure we can keep it properly.  We enjoy this business very much and our success (with fish) is largely due to sites like yours!
Please keep up the good work and let people know not all pet stores are bad, some of us really enjoy what we do and are not in it just for profit.  One last word, I agree with another lady who wrote in - it really is nice to see a site that does not have a zillion grammatical errors!  Thanks.  Marion.
<Hallelujah! Thank you for writing, sharing. Bob Fenner>

Advice needed for fish store   10/5/06
Hello once more my wet friends.
Despite your continual words of doom surrounding the idea of starting a fish store as a one man op,
<You'll see...>
I am doing just that.  The quick version is: I just moved from WPB, FL to North Central Arkansas, somebody shoot me please?!?)
<Heeee! Perhaps a pilot for a teebee show...>
to be close to my father as it is the 8th or 9th inning for him.
<I say go for "extras">
There isn't much here for employment and I bought a house that just happens to have a couple of small commercial buildings on the land so, what the heck, right?
<Neat! This or perhaps something else fish-ornamental aquatics related... aquaculture?>
I won't be relying on profit to live so the store will probably start off quite small and somewhat simple and when/if it starts making money, great.  If it don't work, I'll have a heck of a nice fish room!  Its a new steel building 30 x 40 on a slab.  Yes, its pretty darn small!
<Big enough>
OK, having never done this, I have a few questions that are likely elementary to you.  Of course feel free to redirect me on any of my plans that I've made that seems unwise to you.  The whole plan is pretty flexible.
<Flexibility is a key trait of successful species, individuals>
I want to do 4 8'sections in a U shape.  2 tanks high.
I have basically a free source for glass cut to my sizes and even drilled wherever I want.
<Nice>
Its a large glass co. so they have many, many kinds of glass.
<Just float will do>
I was thinking of just using plain 1/4" glass for the smaller tanks (24 x 16 or 18 x 14 high) 20-25 gal range.  Is this ok?
<Yep... have them bevel the exposed edges...>
Any special glass I have to use?
With the variety at my disposal, is there any 'extra cool' glass you might choose for the sides/backs?
<Mmm, no... I prefer to paint the backs (sometimes sides...) with water based enamel paint... so can take off later if want to>
Right now, I'm basically planning 4 75s 2 over 2 on the left hand 8'section, then for 16' along the back, two rows of the smaller tanks. For the right side I had a couple of different ideas, my favorite being 2 rows of 8' or 6' x 3 or 4' x 12" open top Using the top tank for a macro farm and the one underneath for larger animals (eel, band shark, etc.)  This bank will be viewable from both sides.
<Mmm... is there sufficient population in this area... any currently developed market for marines? What sort of visibility, accessibility is there to this location?>
I also have 3 of those stand alone systems.  I forget the manufacturer, but they are pretty nice. 4x2 footprint, tanks 3 high, great drip tray/bio ball, SeaClears, Iwakis.  These I want to put all next to each other facing the back tanks and then black ceiling that area at about 7'.
Along the 12' on back of those systems, I plan 2 125s or 3 75s end to end for all of the corals, which would be right in front of you when you walk in the door.
That's basically it.  Considering my location and new-ness,  I suspect that a lot of my livestock could be with me for quite a while
<Mmm... you don't want this...>
and I like to keep my
guests comfortable.  I won't be stocking a lot of fish so do these tank sizes sound adequate to you?
<Yes... thus far... what about the part of the business that really pays the bills? The dry-goods... display space, lay-out...>
  I'll likely keep inverts in the stand alones and tiny gobies, etc.
Now here is where I need the most advice.  The whole U fish section will be one water.  The sump area would be in the 'back room' under the 16' section.  I was thinking of 2 pumps, upper/lower level or left/right side. not sure which would be best or just 1 BIG pump.
Your thoughts?
<Mmm, one of good size will do (a Sequence series is my choice...) look to get from Quality Marine in LA>
I also have a RL 120w UV to include somewhere.  I don't have a skimming plan yet.  I went to Kermit's in Memphis and saw his GIANT (at least 12"d) air skimmers and was very impressed but I think I need more input on what I should do for skimming.  
Sorry for being so long winded, but I truly appreciate all the help. You guys really do a great service to the hobby.
Fred
<A large Euro-Reef would do here... one each for the inverts/verts... The building is to be water-proofed, rust-proofed on the inside ahead of all this I hope/trust... Do draw all out on paper/quadrille... Do the codes there call for 42" aisles? Do check this... and I STILL would get a partner... who will likewise be "on the floor"... And... welcome to the trade! Bob Fenner>

Retail Store Question   9/16/06
Hi Crew,
<Michael>
I have been keeping salt and fresh water tanks for about 13 years now pretty much beyond a hobby and more as a way of life.
I have just taken the next step most of us dream of and have purchased a 28 year old local fish store that's just over 22,000 sq ft.
<A very large place>
I close on it at the end of this month and have been going in and assisting the staff with customers
<A very good practice>
and sales and here is where my dilemma lies.
How does one deal with a customer who simply does not care about the life of (just a) fish?
<A hard question... unto yourself be true... but always remember you are you, others are themselves... one can only "be like the sun" and have/allow their goodness to shine on others... but never assume/become them>
I had a man come in who simply threw away his gold fish because they didn't interest him any more and another who insisted in buying 3 small Oscars and 2 angels with a green terror after he did not clean the filter and tank for 6 months and everything died!
I politely gave my advise and opinion on the neglect and disregard he is giving to life but he purchased them anyway.
<Such can be the ignorance of humans... look at the invasion of sovereign nations...>
How does one handle this situation?  My background is in sales and marketing and I am stumped.  If not allowing them to purchase them is the only option, have you heard of any laws against refusal of sale?
<No sense>
I understand this is more of an issue of ethics and morals but I know many of you at the WWM have owned LFS.
<I have been involved in several>
Any advice on this topic would be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance!
Michael J. Bukosky
<Good that you are "finding out about this" now... but such will be the continuous trials of being in retail... what will you choose? Which can you choose but to be yourself? BobF>

Re: Retail Store Question   9/16/06
Thank you for the words of wisdom Bob.
You have helped me out in the past and for what it is worth, you and the crew have passed on much respect and knowledge for this hobby and in return I will do the same
for my customers.
Thank you again... and again.. and again......!
<Welcome Michael... Retail is definitely "not for everyone", but want to re-emphasize that a large issue/lesson of "growing up" for all is this "ownership" question... Do be like the sun, and have the goodness in you shine on others. My goal as well. Cheers, BobF>

Who are the top aquarium decoration manufacturers in the US?  - 09/14/06
Items such as sand, colored rock, someone that can make custom pieces from plastics, center pieces, etc?
<Mmm, none in the U.S. as far as I'm aware... Blue Ribbon et al. are made in the Far East...>
Where can I locate facts and figures on sales numbers in the aquatic decoration industry?
<Not collated by anyone other than distributors I'd guess... and this info. likely treated as proprietary... If you're interested in fabrication, sales/distribution in the trade, I'm willing to grant you what little recent insight I have... some friends have in the last few years "duked it out" in the making of artificial corals... There may be room for another "player" if what you have in mind is "nice", unique... not too-expensive... Have you asked about re distribution as yet? This is often a very useful way of determining whether your product/s/line will "make it". Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your help.
Shelly Newman

Re: Who are the top aquarium decoration manufacturers in the US?  9/15/06
Can you give me the insight you have on fabrication, sales and distribution.
<Will try... what do you have in mind?>
What I have in mind is indeed unique, nice and not too expensive.... Also, don't know anything about redistribution.
Obviously a novice with an "idea" and looking to make it big in the American way....or hopefully just make a living.
Thanks for all your help.
Shelly Newman
<Best to "shop around" with what you have... some local stores... even on consignment... See if what you have size, shape, color-wise is viable... will sell... place some in their systems, on their shelves... And (the cheapest route to go) the Net... develop (if you haven't done so already) a logo, name/tag... and some pix of what you have on offer, price for purchase, shipping... If/when all appears to be "sell-able", approach some of the independent rep.s in the trade (can be found in the back of pet industry publications) and if nearby, one or two distributors in the trade (make an appointment, presentation, following a call or two...) and get their take on what they might be willing to do. Bob Fenner>

Fish store questions   9/5/06
  I’m working on starting a fish store and was reading through your articles on it and had a few questions.
   <Okay>
  My first question is about systems. I really like the look of DAS. Do you have any opinions on them; (quality, durability, filtration, lighting).
   <I do like the Dutch Aquarium Systems (was largely responsible for bringing them in for a time as the vendor of choice at Petco for their holding systems in the early nineties)... for their looks... but their filtration in particular... feeble>
  I have been looking into distributors and bayside aquatics seems to have most of what I need. Do you know anything about them in terms of reliability and how reputable they are?
   <Bayside? Yes... is Ken Wong... the same outfit as their end-user etailing biz Marine Depot... Have been out diving, traveling with Ken in Egypt, Germany, Hawai'i... seen him at his bus. in Anaheim... an honest, competent business person>
  Is it worth splitting a store with salt and fresh, or is devoting all your space to one and offering a larger selection a wiser choice?
   <Better by far in almost all circumstances (unless the industry is very developed/specialized in your region) to have/carry both marine, fresh... even pond livestock and drygoods...>
  Are credit card and debit machines worth all the service charges?
<Mmm, yes... for handling charges at your place of business? Assuredly>
They seem necessary in some businesses and not in other.   
  Any recommendations on a livestock distributor?
<...?! Need to have more than one for any given group/type of organisms...>
  Finally, would you cycle a retail system like a typical tank or is there a different method?
<On a larger scale... the same>
This seems like it would be a lot of time to have a set up shop sitting, and not open. Once cycled what is the best way to add stock in a timely manner without putting too much stress on the system?
<Posted on WWM>   
  I greatly appreciate any help you can offer. Your site is by far the most informative resource I have found on this subject. Thanks in advance. -Paul
<Paul... I salute your earnest effort at becoming a retailer... but would like to chat with you a bit more extensively re these and many other issues... Have you worked in the industry? Do you have time to put in a few months here? A possible visit to wholesaling enterprises? Bob Fenner>

- Marine Aquariums... pondering possibilities  6/15/06 -
WWM Crew -
New to WWM and loving your site (wish I would have found it sooner)!
I've scoured for many hours trying to find info related to my questions but I have been unable to nail down the specifics of what I'm in need of answering, so here goes.....
Quick history:
Live in Michigan. Currently have a 55 gallon marine tank (8 yrs old) with 5 fish (clown, pink spotted goby, cardinal, royal Gramma, Foxface) and live rock. Closest LFS is 35 minutes away. I've saved $3000 to put towards my next marine adventure. I'm at a point where I've saved enough money to expand on what I have and I'm toying with two different possibilities for the next step.
Possibility #1 - spend the entire amount on one awesome large tank. <Believe it or not, $3000 won't get you very far in the "awesome" department in marine tanks. That budget could get a pretty decent 75-90 gallon tank started (as in up and running), but not quite all the way to the finish line (fully stocked with nothing left to purchase).>
Possibility #2 - spend the money on many smaller tanks to keep a rather large assortment of fish and with the help of my son (who is in the process of converting his own freshwater tank to marine) start our own mini-store in our finished basement.  For me this would be a benefit... I could continue to observe many varieties of fish and also possibly make enough money to break even. <While this would be fun from a hobbyist angle, it will likely never be a profitable enterprise and will most likely barely pay the electric bill. Not including the fact that unless you pick lots of small fish, then lots of small tanks is less than ideal for anything of size for anything beyond temporary holding.>
I'm leaning towards #2 and here's some questions/comments-
What size tank would you recommend if I was to have approximately 10 tanks? <55-60? Depends more on how much space you have and the fish you want to keep. Larger is always better.>
(I've looked into the MaRS Retailer System vs. buying 10-20 gallon tanks and outfitting them each with a bio-wheel, heater, hood.  The tanks come out cheaper but would that be the best way to go? <For retail display systems, this is a better way to go, but the design of these systems is based on a wholesale/retail holding system and not long term care.>
Will just a bio-wheel be adequate to maintain the tanks? (on my current tank I have a canister filter, protein skimmer, powerhead) <A protein skimmer always helps.>
Recommendations/contacts for livestock, food, aquariums in the Michigan area? <If you're in the Ann Arbor area, look up Tropicorium. If you're in the East Lansing/Lansing area, look up Preuss' Pets.>
Is this insane? <Not insane, but perhaps not completely thought out. Do consider carefully what it will cost you on a reoccurring basis to maintain a large holding system - will this really make you money or just drain it out of your wallet? If you want to make money, then you need to approach this like a business which means you need a business plan, marketing research, etc. - is there anyone around to make money with? This is just a start, but going through these motions should influence your decision.>
Thank You for your time
Brian
<Cheers, J -- >

Thinking of starting a LFS  - 05/21/2006
Sir or Ma'am,
<Just Bob please>
  Was going through your vast amounts of knowledge on the business side of starting a LFS, and the only part I believe I'm lacking is the most important.... Money!
<An important component... We do live in an exchange society/world>
Im currently active duty military and with times being as they are, I was debating on waiting to start my LFS, until I know I wont be moved around.
<You are wise here. I was a dependent for decades, a recruit, and married with a woman in the services...>
Though I do have a strong supporting cast that will help me, such as my wife, if I was gone for a while.  With
that said, let me describe my idea, and see what you think. In my town of 80,000 we currently have 3 SW fish stores,
<Amazing... in our home town of San Diego we don't have this much... with a population of some three and a half million people>
all have a small marine section. One store is your small strip mall type store, they have I believe one or two marine tanks, and both are border line disgusting, I wouldn't even consider them. The other store, which is on the main strip of town has the most advertising. It's a out of the house business and has one "bedroom" dedicated to SW. With 4 big tanks and 4 10gal, the selection is pretty limited.
<Heeeee! Perhaps I keyed too soon>
The couple that owns the LFS has one intelligent person, and one complete "absent-minded" owner. This is your
typical, sell you whatever to make a buck LFS, and I seriously seen someone walking out of the store with a new tank, salt and the fish in
the bag. The last LFS is the one I currently shop at is 30mins out of town, it's about 50/50 FW and SW fish, they also sell puppies out the
back. It's a garage business with about 12 SW tanks, one dedicated to Corals. Though the owner is the most knowledgeable and friendly in the local business, the shop is very lacking and the selection seems to be pick thru. Both business's I named last have a good amount of customers that go through the stores, I know there is a market, I just believe there isn't a store yet.
<I see...>
  My location would be next to the new development of higher end homes and closet to the military base which accounts for 17% of the retail market in our area. I believe it to be a high traffic area and see the customer base as a high potential for above average sales. My question is after coming up with a business plan and ill be trying to buy up some display tanks used in the paper, what area should I focus on next. Obviously ill have to gain some capitol and make a price sheet, but where else should I be focusing my attention on.
Thank you,
Leroy
<As you will find, hopefully learn by simply perusing the Aquatics Business subweb of WWM, there are five critical elements of business, including retail... Set-up, stock, personnel, financing and location... all these can break such an endeavor... Do read re. Bob Fenner>

Prob.s concerning bio cycle... new to commercial, SW... parasitic disease, prevention, re-establishing sys.   4/26/06
To whoever picks this up:
Dear Sir,
I have been gathering too much info from your site the past few months while I was trying to establish a wholesale point for marine fish and I am grateful to you for this.
I ve seen that you help a lot of people with the problems they have and I was wondering if you can help me too.
I have a commercial system with the power of handling 5 tons (currently use it at its one 1/3 capacity)
<For other readers, often systems are measured elsewhere in their weight in water>
(TMC Marine system) and 25 kg.s of biomass.
It has a 440W UV bio tower sand filter big skimmer... I had it working for a month boosted with the Abil package for a quick 10 day cycle establishment.
<Theoretically... that is, under some standard...>
The water parameters were monitored and the cycle seemed to be working fine. The NO2s went up and the then down after increasing the NO3s (Strangely a white dusty byproduct was left down on the bottom of my tanks??)
<Not uncommon>
After that I had my first order coming from Indonesia. At the first 5-6 days everything was good all the 150 fish (2-3 kg.s biomass) came to balance and got back their beautiful colors. The nest few days they started showing stress they developed whitespot and started dying.
<Very common that wild fish are infested... you don't (yet) mention acclimation or treatment procedures... these are extremely important, and detailed on WWM for commercial and residential applications>
Until I realize what's going on half of my stock was dead my ammonia went to the sky and my NO2s as well
<This is to be expected... from the dead, dying source of protein...>
the remaining of my stock I gave it to many of my friend because I couldn't watch them die slowly any more.
<... are you sure you're suited to this/our industry?>
Now I am trying to get things going again and this is where I need your advice.
Should I keep the water I have in the system (artificial) or should I sterilize everything and start from the beginning using sea water and wait for the cycle to run again?
Thank you in advance for the help
Yiannis Christodoulou
<Having been in this situation before, and done both, I would bleach (sodium hypochlorite likely) the system and start again... with the same water if it is otherwise in "good shape". Please, do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
and the many articles/FAQs files on Marine parasitic disease... Bob Fenner>

BGA Pix, not the algae/bacteria, wanted   4/8/06
Bobbie,
Do you have a good photo of some nasty red slime?
Aloha Friday...hope you are enjoying it.
Best regards...
Eric
<Do I!? Hey, you have all these on the ext. HD I sent along...>
P.S What's new?
<Just back from a month plus in HI, doing the Lavaman... trying feverishly to catch up... Have you seen this pic: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Are you going to Interzoo? The upcoming WMC? IMAC? Some hobbyist fun now! BobF>

Photos, SDC, REEFCHECK, HI    4/8/06
Bob,
<Eric>
You know....it's very funny that picture of your wife and myself I have saved in my computer as well and see it often.
<Is a good pic of you both>
  It's cool that you put that on the site which is really cool.  I often recommend the site to new  customers
interested in setting up aquarium shops for your great information and  people always thank me for pointing them in the right direction.  It's a  huge help for
these people to get the information so they can make the right  decisions for themselves in business.
<Outstanding>
I was planning on going to Germany with my wife for 10 days or so, but so much happening right now with Sea Dwelling and more, that I just feel compelled  
to keep the train moving forward.
<Mmm, and I do need and greatly want to chat with you... re building a public facility on the Big Island... at NELHA/former OTEC...>
Maybe I will attend one of the shows...Chicago probably more chance than Sacramento.
<Would be great to pal about with you there>
Which are you going  to other than Germany of' course.
<We're actually skipping... Di out of Knop, my publisher (BSV) there selling... and not enough money to help fund WWM crew there or to the Red Sea excursion afterward... Signs of the times... that I hope will be over in coming years. Instead, we may sponsor some folks to come out, dive, tourist a bit in HI... during the mid May into June time-frame. If a short while there would work for you et ux., you're welcome to the master BR suite at our place>
You mentioned I already have the red slime photo?  Did you give Scott  a master disc or something?
<Oh! Better than this... an external hard drive of all my scans... If it's easier for me to send along some BGA pix direct, please make this known... not hard to do>
Ok dude...all is good.  What's Lavaman?
<A tri, make that try- athalon... done now (for the year) thank goodness!>
You mentioned  Hawaii...by the way, we are (reefcheck.org) having a fundraiser in Honolulu.. the  Honolulu Marathon.
<Ahh, some friends are doing this (I did, once, many years back... just thinking of hoofing it up the Diamondhead road is giving me pains!>
It's going to be a huge event with lot's of  stars.  Maybe we can get the logo on your site somehow with a link.
<Will gladly place. Please just send info. on where it's to be found, the URL>
I  have been on the board of directors for nearly 4 years now...it's really taking  off and a great cause with great people.  
<Very glad to hear/read>
Have a great weekend...lot's of family kids stuff going on around  here.
Eric
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Public Aquariums... discover, discern your destiny, seek your path, become yourself   1/25/06
Hello,
I love saltwater fish and love taking care of my little reef tank enough that I want to work in a public aquarium. <Think we all did at one time or another.> I'm 18 and a senior in high school and I'm starting to plan out pretty much the direction I want to take. What would you think would be the best step toward working in a public aquarium? I really like saltwater fish and reef type invertebrates but I don't really care much for penguins, seals etc. . There isn't an aquarium around here and the closest I could do would be work at Petco *gag* (One time they played with their sump and accidentally turned their tanks into freshwater overnight killing everything but a snowflake eel--probably fixed the ick problem though...) Anyhow, what would probably be the best thing right now? <I'm baffled...you want to work at a public aquarium but there are none around you. I don't know of any other options outside of working at "*gag*" Petco. The best step I guess is moving near one and submitting an application to them. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks <You're welcome><<I strongly encourage you to get/read Jay Hemdal's "Aquarium Careers" (review, link on WWM). Pursue your path, dream. RMF>>

Starting a business  12/26/05
Hi, <Hello Joel>
    I am new to this site. I do not know if you can help me or not but I am interested in using my experience with marine aquariums to start a small business. I have a lot of ideas and have been saving for some time but I realized I do not know where to start. I would like to start off selling hard goods out of a friends business ( car wash {I know the 2 do not really go together but it is a start} ). I have a decent network of people who are looking for a better resource of supplies. My problem is I do not know how to go about becoming a registered retailer to be able to buy from suppliers. Or even how to find suppliers. Could you offer any advice on this. <Let's start by reading info on the link I've posted.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks, <You're welcome>
Joel Hagans

Important discourse re career/s, life, pet-fishing 12/14/05
Bob,
<Jeremy>
In your book, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist," in the foreword is written:
"To you, the aquarist.  May your brush with captive marine fishes and invertebrates enhance our appreciation of the living world, inspire you to share your experiences with others and foster stewardship of our planet."
<Yes... an earnest desire/belief>
Working in a civil engineering firm, I have taken that message seriously.  The motto here is that water will be this century's oil.
<Interesting... and so>
Currently, I work in the land development discipline planning and developing utilities for planned subdivisions and communities.  Lately, I have really started looking toward the environmental side of civil engineering as well as marine biology especially since Texas A&M-Galveston is little under an hour away from me.  Ever since I started this hobby, (about a year ago) more than anything it has made me appreciate the ocean and the balance that it has, since we take such measures to imitate such balance and stability in such small tanks.
<An important issue that I appreciate as a benefit of the hobby/interest as well>
  It really bothers me to see what is going on with pollutants and the fact that the engineering aspect only seeks the bare minimum as far as standards are concerned and that people couldn't eat the fish (if they wanted to) out of the surrounding water of most cities.
<Mmm, not all folks have this minimalist/lower-est common denominator view you'll find>
Houston is not alone.  I wouldn't dare use the immediate surrounding Gulf waters in my aquarium.  Also, I have been reading up on what is going on with the oceans and that it may be a big factor in what is causing such a hurricane spike in not only the quantity of storms, but the power these things have been generating lately while churning not too far away.  Scary stuff.  
<Yes>
Since you are knowledgeable and active in the marine biology field, do you have any advice on where I would start looking as far as pursuing this as a career as far as what to look for in a degree plan?
<... A very important question... would/will need to know much re your background, value system, future goals/ambitions to render an opinion with much confidence>
As much as I find the biology of marine life and pathology of diseases/treatments interesting (considering I have a tank full of crypt...), I think that I am looking for more along the way of preservation and environmental engineering, although I would consider a minor in the biology area.  Nemo and Dory are cool and all, but I don't want to be limited to just that.   
<Indeed... do not limit yourself more than "natural" influences...>
I will be going to go upstairs the environmental dept and talk to some of their people before too long as well.  Although I am only 25, the window of changing career and degree paths without turning my life upside down won't be open too much longer.
<Good point>
I take night classes at a local community college to get my core classes done and I am almost done there.  I will have to make a decision sometime next year.  I just received a packet from A&M-Galveston, so I will also be taking a quick visit out there for more info as well.  I am just looking for actual experiences and backgrounds so I have a better idea to know what to ask and what I am looking for when I get there.  
I know you must get a ton of mail and I certainly do not want to add to any load or cause any unnecessary inconveniences, but any advice you have would be helpful.  
Thanks,
Jeremy
<Am glad to proffer my input, share my help in your ongoing planning>
Now I get to go home, take apart my LR formation and corral my fish into the sick tank!  Last night, I went ahead and added a nitrifying bacteria culture to the QT and wanted to let it settle overnight.
<Good>
The adventure never stops around here...  Other than the crypt outbreak, the tank is really nice when functioning properly.  Should be even better once I upgrade to a 180+ gallon size.  If it doesn't work out, I have friends with tanks that size who will take the imperator and possibly hippo tang.
<Also good. Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Opening a new store - Start with a Business Plan 11/3/05
Hi, My partner and I are strongly considering opening a fresh and saltwater fish store in Rochester, Minnesota.
<Ahh!>
There really aren't any fish stores for about an hour from this city.
<... why is this so? Demography? Size of population, age thereof? Often it is easier, more timely to "share" a going customer base than develop one>
The main thing that we are wondering is if you believe it would be a good idea to do. I know that it would be hard for you to say but the nearest stores from us which are located in Minneapolis, are extremely busy and some maintenance co. are unable to bring in new clientele because of over- bookings. We don't have any experience in owning our own business so any advice that you could give to us would be very helpful.
<Much to state... would be better if you had/have worked in the trade for a few months (both/all of you)>
We have salt water fish and are very passionate about this idea. It's one of those things that we just wish it was already going. But we really don't know where to start.
<On paper... read the "Five Elements of Retail" posted on WWM's Business Subweb... draw up a business plan, spread sheets for monies coming/going for a couple of years...>
I know that it is all about the 5 key elements, but where do you really start.
<All at the same time... actually, most folks with "Set-up" to gain an appreciation for how large a store you may want/need... the costs of fixtures, stock... then on to Finance...>
Thank you so much for all of the advice so far. We look forward to hearing back from you. Lynnzy and Josh
<I wish you success in your venture... Retail is definitely not easy (endless hours, headaches...), but very rewarding. Bob Fenner, who spent 14 years "on the floor".> 

Re: Opening a new store 11/3/05
Hi Bob, its Lynnzy again. Rochester has an amazing population and is growing every day. I believe, after speaking to some of my grandparents, that one of the reasons there is not a fish store around here, is that there never has ( at least for the past 70 yrs), and everyone is afraid to try something new and take a risk. 
<Self-employment is not for everyone... though I think it should be...>
I am an assistant manager of a jewelry store, so I know that retail can be very tough.
<Ah, yes... and good>
You can go from having one amazing month to almost nothing the next... Very Frustrating!!! However, Josh and I are risk takers and I believe that him and I together have enough heart in this business that it will help make up for some of the missing experience. Just after only talking about our passion for this, we have met and found out of a lot of people close to us, like co- workers, etc. that have salt and fresh water tanks in their homes, and some numerous tanks. 
In more cases when I ask them, mostly salt water owners, where they get their inventory, they reply that they are forced to order it on- line and out of catalogs because no one around our area offers anything. This gives me even more inspiration. Everyone starts out like us in the beginning, and look what the fish industry has evolved into, I have faith. Any other advice would be great, thank you!!!! Lynnzy 
<Let us keep chatting as your plans develop... have you been out "shopping" for a sight, fixtures yet? Bob Fenner> 

Should I open a fish store / pet store  10/19/05
First off, thank you for such a great site.
I've operated a small aquarium maintenance service in my city for about 3 years. It's something that I dreamed of since I was a kid at the doctors and always wanted to feed the fish. It's funny cause I remember then thinking that I could take care of the doctors fish around my town for work.
Any ways, I've really considered opening a retail pet/ aquarium store.
I work at a specialty marine shop and in the past year six new shops have opened that sell salt water livestock and equipment. 3 being Petcos and 3 being aquatic specialty. Call me crazy for still wanting to dive into what may be a saturated market.
What should I know if I were to take the plunge. Thank you for your help with this and all your info on this site.
>> Working in the industry I can give you some advice on this, although much will depend on your city and market. Basically independent pet stores have a difficult stand against the big chain stores, because of their limited buying power and exposure. The idea would be to specialize in products and services not offered by the big stores, and maybe bringing in some fish and dry goods that are not offered by the big stores. Go to a local aquarium society meeting and speak with the people that know the industry in your city, to see what their opinions are. You will need the aquarium society for advertising and word of mouth to start anyhow. It may be good to offer a good discount to members, which will get them new members through your store, and you are assured of a customer base that has a genuine interest in fish. This business is not easy, but not many are. Good Luck, Oliver

2 questions about the pet fish biz
Mr. Fenner,
   Thanks for your work in the industry and hobby. I
really appreciate reading your work. Enough kissing up
for now, onto the questions:
<Glad to share>
  1. I have been doing a lot of research on opening a
business in the tropical fish industry. I have worked
in a chain type store and recently had the privilege
of becoming the manager of a start up tropical fish
store in the Sacramento area.
<A nice area... with some great, well-established retailers>
I was able to be there
when the building was empty and put it all together.
So, far I have gleaned tons of information. The
largest of that info being that I would never open a
normal retail location!!!
<Heeee! Have gotten past this age/step years back as well>
     I am only 25 and don't have near enough capital
to pull it off (yet.) I am interested in coral
propagating/tank maintenance out of my home or small
warehouse. It seems that there is a much better chance
at success in making money when you don't have a lot
to start with.
<Mmm, "takes money to make..." as the saying goes... You will need some>
    Finally, to my point. I have been thinking about a
"co-op" style business though. I have read only one
article about this on the web. Where the whole store
is based around a "membership" where you basically are
turning a fish club into a store. People would pay a
fee to join then you could give them discount on
products. Also, I was thinking of renting tank space
for people who wanted to do coral propagating on a
small scale - then if you had enough of the small
scale guys you can all collaborate on one large
identity website where you sell everyone's stuff. I
know this is a very general idea, but any ideas about
what would be good or bad about this idea?
<Could be done... I take it you have good to great people skills, inestimable patience?>
  2. Also, do you have any contacts that you could
pass on to me that make "holding systems" like you
would see at wholesalers? You know where they would
have tiny divided tanks on top then graduating to a
little larger ones and then finally the largest ones
on the bottom.
<Mmm, if indeed you lack much money, I would make your own... or if available, but used... Very expensive to purchase...>
  Thanks for your time and sorry it was so long!
                                 - Jacob
<Not long at all... Please do us both a favor and do the due diligence here... Write up a semi-formal business plan and a spreadsheet of expected revenues and expenses for the next few years. Good practice, and may well reveal some important elements of your dream/plan. Bob Fenner>

Aquatic Plants and Pond Supplies Biz
Bob,
I am looking to become a distributor for aquatic plants and pond supplies,
however I don't know where to start.
<Mmm, the industry... or industries if you're talking aquarium plants separate from pond... are easily found... Buyer's Guides in the trade pub.s... trade associations... Have you worked in our interest?>
I have enough space and land to make this a
home business. I just need to find a manufacture that needs a distributor.
Can you help?
<... am a bit confused here... Are you looking to actually grow plants, and also to privately rep. pond drygoods? Both? Are there particular lines, sizes... How do you hope to reach your customers? Or are you looking to work as a manufacturer's representative? Let's chat. Bob Fenner>

Re: Consulting Offer - Chicago
Thanks Bob.  Yeah, volume is the goal.  Quality product and fair prices.
After all you don't make money growing corals and fish, you make money
selling them. While I will continue to propagate some corals (faster growing
SPS and LPS, xenia, etc.) it will be done out of sight.  Also the quicker the
fish and corals move out of holding and into their permanent homes the
better.  At least I think.
Glad to hear I am on the right track with the separation of species and I
definitely plan on some type of bath/qt procedure.  I have read your
treatment procedure on this site.  Sounds good to me.
What is your opinion on how best to filter a larger fish system??  Fluidized
beds??  Trickle??  Not sure what the best way to go is.
<Both have their merits... and both will rapidly "ramp up" to loads... For large, fluctuating amounts of biota, fluidized beds can't be (currently) beat... You'll want more than this, these though... likely at least ultraviolet, perhaps ozone with a dryer... and big skimmers... maybe even particulate (mechanical, cartridge) filtration for "polishing". Bob Fenner>
Thanks again.
Jim Roberts

Re: Consulting Offer - Chicago, commercial holding systems filtration
Again thanks.  Now I have even more questions.  In what order to you place
all that filtration??  How should the water move through it all??  Also any
suppliers that I can start working with to obtain these items would be most
appreciated...
Thanks...
Jim Roberts
<Please take the long read through our Aquatics Business subweb... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
there is coverage of systems there under "Setup", and linked files beyond.
Bob Fenner>

Regarding Coolcorals products
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/wwminput4.htm
Hello Bob,
Are you still in touch with Brad Kretzmeier from cool corals?
Brad taught me a lot of things about corals. And currently I'm away from Indiana. So I am having trouble contacting Brad. His address and number actually got relocated, and I was wondering if you have his new contact.
Sincerely,
Charlie Kuo
<No... even Google Scholar searching didn't find him, it. Bob Fenner>

A miniature business venture
Hi all! I just want to share again how much I adore your website! I
can't wait to covertly snap pictures of y'all at the upcoming
conference in Chicago!
<Please introduce yourself... we're just pet-fish people like yourself>
My question is semi-complicated, so I hope it makes sense in the end. I
recently inherited 9 20g long aquariums, drilled with one hole in the
back left corner. I believe the hole is 1/2", as the 3/4" fittings I
bought for it don't fit.
Anyway, I've been thinking about setting up one of the tanks as either
a coral propagation tank or a clownfish breeding tank, although I'm not
sure how realistic doing so would be. I can't set up all of the tanks
b/c I know, without a doubt, that I will be moving across the country
in May 2007. Basically, my question is this: do you think it's possible
to turn a tiny profit propagating corals or breeding clowns in two
years in a small tank or would you recommend that I use my time to plan
the development of my hopefully larger propagation farm once I'm
settled into one place?
<Is possible, a lot of fun, and very good practice...>
I adore growing corals and I'm not counting on
the frags to pay for any of my expenses... well, except for maybe the
cost of keeping the tank up and running, but even that isn't completely
necessary at this point.
<Do pay attention, maybe make a spreadsheet of costs and possible revenue... pay particular attention to energy (mostly lighting) costs... use some natural light if you can on those corals... see Anthony's many good inputs re selection of saleable species...>
Anyway, I would love your insight into what you would do if you were in
my position. I live in  small town and I'm bored out of my mind, so my
aquariums are like my babies! I love em!
Many thanks!
--Becky
<I say... you go woman! Bob Fenner>

Re: your ol' buddy from the west Texas desert...
Wasn't demeaning PetCo as a chain. This specific store has a bad showing for Saltwater stuff. The supply of books and reading material is abysmal and the livestock selection is very small. The tanks are okay but not great. I blame it on the management of the store not PetCo. I should have made that more apparent.
<No worries... the chains have their shortcomings for sure... space enough for all currently. Bob Fenner> 

Re: your ol' buddy... TURNS OUT
I misstated the name of the store. I went over there at lunch it is a PetSmart store NOT a PetCo. That could be part of the problem. Sorry for any hard feelings my original email may have caused my friend. 
<Again, no worries. Both chains have their strong/weak points... I don't take any of these personally>
I still do not blame the chain, but rather the local management for the lack of interest in Reef Aquaria. There are several people here, even in my own business, that are clamoring for a store 'of our own' where people can learn and start on this hobby. For now, I have brought in my copy of your book and have highly recommended it.
<Ahh, glad you find it worthy>
Regards
Rick
<Perhaps someone there will realize the opportunity, the challenges, and open an independent shop... Bob Fenner> 

Coral color change and Etail advice 4/28/05
I bought 3 blue ridge corals. At the time of purchase they looked baby blue, but now they are turning brown. Are they dyed? I sold one of them to someone because I had 3, and they were furious with me when they received it. They said it was totally brown. Mine in my tank looks brown over the top and blue underneath. They were all blue when I bought them. I refunded the money because they think we did it on purpose and threw a terrible temper tantrum.
<I don't think these corals were dyed. Blue ridge coral never has blue tissue. It is always light to caramel brown. The skeleton is blue, so I suspect you saw some blue skeleton that was visible where tissue died.>
We're trying to get started in a saltwater online business. We have accounts with Sea Dwelling, Underwater World, Segrest, and many others. The quality really varies in what you receive.
<This is absolutely true. It takes time to build good relationships and to learn what each supplier does best. Hiring a "jobber" to go in person to pick your animals helps a lot!>
For dry goods we have champion lighting and a few other but I don't think they offer very good wholesale prices. Any suggestions on dry and live good suppliers? 
<You are dealing with some of the biggest already, but you may want to check Custom Aquatic for dry goods and Quality Marine for livestock (there are many others).>
Also, we have tried no ick and kick ich for marine ich. Do you have any recommended brand? We have ordered more uv sterilizers.
<The drugs/chemicals in No Ick and Kick Ick are not effective at the recommended doses. UV is the better solution in a commercial setting, however proper FW dips on arrival and quarantine are the best way to prevent outbreaks. UV is only effective when they are kept clean and the lamps are replaced often (every 6 months).>
We got some corals in such as blue carpet and bright pink finger leather sold as purple hairy finger leather, and I\u2019m sure they\u2019re dyed because the water in the bag its colored! How long will the color stay in the coral will it fade soon? <The blue carpet is probably natural, but the pink leather is very suspicious. On future orders, tell your wholesaler that you won't accept dyed animals! The dyed colors usually fade fast, and the dyed animal often dies. Keep an eye on it so that it can be removed if it starts to fall apart.>
I wouldn't want to sell something and then have a customer get furious, because some people are less than understanding. I want to try to have the best quality I can have and represent it honestly. Thanks. Any ideas and links to point us in the right direction are very much appreciated. Thanks again. Your site has got to be one of the most informative on earth! Right up there with an encyclopedia! 
<Glad you appreciate the site and more glad that you have a desire to run a stand-up business. Beware that this business is very difficult, even for very knowledgeable and experienced people. Please do see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm for good information about this business. Best of luck. AdamC.>

Bob's Opinion on Industry Consolidation
Hello Bob. I am not sure if you are around or off somewhere exotic, but I wanted to get your take on the latest rounds takeovers, mergers, and acquisitions. Rayovac which owns The United Pet Group (Marineland, Aquarium Systems, and Perfecto) now just bought Tetra.
<And a few more pending...>
Central Garden and Pets owns All-Glass, Oceanic, Kent, and ESU/Coralife. Do you see the industry eventually being dominated by just a few large companies?
<I hope not>
Is this a good thing?
<Not IMO/E... such consolidation is a "mixed blessing/curse"... Bigger companies are less innovative, more predatory in their practices... not good for the hobby, industry, country/economy in general... On the other hand (the mixed part), larger outfits have the resources for research (look at Tetra, Marineland...) and much better packaging, marketing mechanisms... It's really my hope/opinion that it will all be fine GIVEN that there are still opportunities for small and new/small companies to enter markets, become, be competitive>
Will this lead to stronger companies or to simply fewer choices? I guess I am most troubled by a wholesale company purchasing manufacturers.
-Steven Pro
<Got me Steven... I do hope both stronger companies AND more choices... looking at other "gobbled up" industries, interests, I don't see much of this happening though. Cheers, BobF>
P.S. If anyone else cares to comment, feel free. But, I would also like to get Bob's perspective as well. Thanks!

Opening up new shop in SoCal
Dear Mr. Fenner,
My name is Keith Cox and I am in the planning stages to open up a marine shop in Riverside Ca. I have come across you name before on the web and decided to give you a ring to see if you have any advice for me in setting up shop.
<Congratulations on your decision... and welcome to our industry>
I have all of the wholesalers covered and have a pretty good idea at how to set up shop but
I had a few questions about the time it takes to show a profit and some advertising strategies. I would really like to have a telephone conversation with you if you could find the time. You can reach me at:
The shop I want to set up will be full line (good, better, best, in multiple manufacturers), have ultra clean display system for fish and reef systems w/MH and a dedicated system for SPS corals. I believe that there is a market for exotic SPS corals here in So Cal. I plan on getting started and open this summer (05). I look forward to speaking with you. Thank you for your time. Keith Cox
<Time on/for phone calls is fleeting, but will gladly e-discuss any aspects of your business, the industry with you. Bob Fenner>

Tropical fish store
Hi
<Hello there>
  I was wondering if you had any idea of the start up cost of a tropical fish store in England?
<Mmm, only good guesstimates>
Also I'm interested in the breeding side of the fish world too, was wondering if you could run a business just by breeding fish and selling them in store or to other stores?
<Can... is done by some folks>
Sorry if these questions are stupid, its just I have a strong interest in this area after devoting so much time (and money) to my fish and was just wondering if there was any way I could work with them. To be it sounds better then being a stockroom manager of a clothes shop! I'm just inquiring at this stage to find out if I can and if I'm able to. Any help you can give would be most appreciated.
Andy   
<Give the Aquatics Business subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
a good read over... taking good notes. As you will see, working for another, going concern first is strongly suggested. Bob Fenner>

Re: Tropical fish store
Hi
<Hello there>
Thanks for your quick reply. What sort of scale would a breeding business need to be to be profitable?
<Depending on species, salability, not large to quite... You need to research your local markets... ask about what is in need, likely to continue to be so... freshwater and/or marine... The easiest, longer-term organisms are fragmented stony and soft corals, Xeniids, Ricordeas, anemones.... Are you familiar with Tropical Marine Centre in the UK? They raise large numbers of Clownfishes... among others... Some plants can be raised profitably... but I would secure commitments from outlets ahead of trying these... You'll need to draw up plans for your physical lay-out, make a spread sheet of costs, prospective returns...>
not just as a stand alone business  but maybe as a way of making the hobby profitable so to speak. Or is it only worth on the large scale? I was thinking of breeding tropical fish like Angels and Discus as I've had success with these in the past. Sorry for all the questions any help would be gratefully received thanks.
Andy
<These cichlids can be produced profitably... but require larger groups of customers, much space to be profitable. Bob Fenner>

Retail Markup of Wholesale Goods
Hi Bob,
I am interested in starting an online business specializing in aquarium dry goods. I have been unsuccessful in getting a copy of a product catalog from any wholesalers and I would simply like to get a good idea of what prices I should expect to pay compared to what I can realistically sell online. Is there any way to get access to a wholesale product list?
<Not w/o being "on the inside"... that is being given access to such. Once you have established yourself, these folks, businesses will find you>
What is the average markup of aquarium supplies online?  Thanks for your help. Brian 
<Mmm, I would rather re-state, offer my overall opinion that I would not carry an item (per item) that you could not gross 40 points (percent) on... There are folks that skimp below this for specials/promotions, given "come on" attractions, stock reductions... foolish IMO/E. BobF>

Aquatic convention
Hi looking for aquarium shows
.. Like fishing, and hunting, car etc. show.  Is there anything like that were all the venders are so you can buy food and supplies? Pumps if you were. Thanks, Jimmy.. also I live in NYC, thanks.
Jimmy
<There are indeed "industry trade shows" in the ornamental aquatics interest... as well as engineering, marketing... I attend the two largest ones... Aquarama (coming up in May in Singapore) and alternate years, Interzoo (in Germany)... there are about a dozen retailer oriented shows in the U.S. per year... you can likely most easily search re these through petbusiness.com's site. Bob Fenner>

Online Stores
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have noticed that there are a great many websites selling dry goods
over the internet but do not believe that they have store fronts nor
do they stock any merchandise.
<Mmm, the "real" etailers in our field do indeed have warehouses, many hundreds of thousands of dollars in drygoods... the ones that sell or also sell livestock often "go buy" what they sell...>
I assume they are affiliate
operations.
<Not commonly.... there are some folks who swing by "cash and carry" wholesale operations... but most have well-established wholesale/distribution ties...>
Their catalogues are very extensive and the prices
competitive.  I would like to set up my own online store but do not
know who to contact.
<Who?>
  I have only encountered Petstop.com that has
anything close to a system that you can use to sell merchandise
without stocking.  After contacting a great many manufacturers, I
found that they were not interested in drop-shipping merchandise.
<Mmm, I would NOT do this... how to state my opinion, give direction here? The competition will "chew you up" if you have an "also ran" selection, operation... their pricing has very low margins...>
Would you be able to provide any names of companies that would be able
to help.
<Help in what way?>
I have access to a very active aquarist & aquaculture site
that would benefit by having an online store.
Thank you in advance for your time & response.
Aaron
<Sounds like you want to talk with a "business solutions" outfit... look into software (most all large web authoring packages support the HTML, secure... to set up a business... Talk with your commercial bank... re setting up accounts... taking credit card payments... SECURE a contract (hire a business lawyer) to define what your relationship is with the supplier/s. Bob Fenner>

Re: Online Stores
Hello Bob,
<Aaron>
Thank you for the very quick response.  I already have a site with a
secure payment option and software is not the problem.  I guess to
make this short for you and not waste your time, what I wanted was to
know how to sell aquarist & aquaculture merchandise without stocking
it.  Apparently this is not possible.
Regards,
Aaron
<Actually, is possible... this is how Amazon.com got started... rushing over to Ingram to buy/ship out what it had just sold... But does require the same sort of arrangement (proximity, solid relationship, flexibility)... Have you seen Aquatic Ecosystems and Argent Chemical (.coms) sites? They do a very good job of offering aquaculture items to the hobby/trade... but have been excruciatingly slow to really generate business in the avocation... they don't "get it"... quite yet... and perhaps you'll be the one (by your practice, competition) to "goose them" into doing so... There is indeed a HUGE market that is currently unaddressed (and strange to me for being absent) in targeting the "aquarium service" industry.... selling them skid units, pumps, totes, good-sized products for their use... maybe even manufacturing "reel trucks" for hauling water, larger "real" aquarium cleaning tools... Let's chat this over if you'd like. Bob Fenner>

Re: Online Stores
I already considered making an arrangement with the local tropical
fish outlets but after checking prices online opted out as it wouldn't
even allow for a breakeven number.
<Ah, yes... as stated, am at a loss at the current situation in the trade... perhaps like the Airline industry, there is a good sized shake out looming>
I have also made contact with both
Argent & Aquatic Ecosystems suggesting drop ship, affiliate or just
plain advertising.  They were not interested.
<Sorry to hear this... It does sound like you are an astute person, business entity.... that would well-benefit our trade... Am familiar with these parties, and though they are serious business people... there is a bit too much "personality" at play in their endeavors>
Maybe my approach was
wrong.  In any event, their products could benefit if I were allowed
to market them on my site.
<Mmm, well, there are other manufacturers, lines... have your perused the aquaculture press (mag.s) in recent time? Do you attend trade shows... there is the Aquarama coming up in May... In Singapore... I/we will be there>
My major users are the wholesale
ornamental fish trade and I feel that I am missing the boat by not
having product to sell.
<Yes!>
  Personally I am not in a position to finance
inventory, even through a bank, but do have the site to sell product
through to any companies advantage in the aquarist or aquaculture
industry.  And, I am certainly open to your suggestions.
Aaron
<... wish there was some easy way... akin to "Vulcan mind melding" we might do... Might I ask, how much time do you have to put into this? And how long are you willing to "get by" with little to no profit? What I am thinking is that there ARE lines, companies who would like representation in N. America (from in and outside)... but lack representation, distribution... that you might be able to assist... as an independent rep., sales associate cum distributor... On your way to developing stronger relations, generating capital... Bob Fenner>

Re: Online Stores
Bob, you have given me a little hope here at least. I have time but not to travel or act as a distributor. For the past few years I have been trading successfully on the stock market but, due to family medical problems I was forced to draw down on my initial stake which in turn caused me to lose the rest.
<Yikes, this is too familiar>
Now I am totally out of cash and work and this business seems like my last chance. I am over 60 with no marketable skills or qualifications.
<Mmm, I disagree... just on the basis of our few emails here... you have demonstrable intelligence, drive>
I don't intend to be a greeter at Wal-Mart just yet. I work from home and now have a great deal of free time to consider a new venture. I also have access to the web and a very qualified programmer that will help me if needed.  My site is aquafind.com and the commercial trading boards are very busy each day. Aaron
<Very nice... these "things"... "take time"... If you can continue to add lines... and exposure... you will do fine in time. I will help you in what ways I can. Bob Fenner> 

Re: Online Stores
I already considered making an arrangement with the local tropical fish outlets but after checking prices online opted out as it wouldn't even allow for a breakeven number.
<Ah, yes... as stated, am at a loss at the current situation in the trade... perhaps like the Airline industry, there is a good sized shake out looming>
I'm a survivor of both industries....or let's say maybe I'm still trying to survive both at the same time....hope you don't mind if I piped in.
<Yikes! On to better times, industries I hope/trust. Bob Fenner>

About fish biz pub.s
Bob,
<Jim>
I just discovered your web site and found it very useful.  I'm thinking of starting a part-time aquarium maintenance business in the near future, and an aquarium store in the longer-term.  Have you published any books or magazine articles about starting and running an aquarium business?  Are there any references you can recommend?
Thanks in advance,
Jim K.
<Mmm, was in the service end of the industry for nineteen years... and a good part of our old op.s manuals and some industry mag. pieces I penned re are posted on our bus. subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
There are a few self-published works on the field as well... for both service and retail... a VERY good idea to work for other concerns here... taking good notes... first. Bob Fenner>

Not quite ready for the pet-fish biz
Bob,
<Ron>
I have been keeping marine fish for almost 18 years. I was 12 years old when
I set up my first saltwater tank after saving my paper route money and
Christmas money. I received my B.S. in Zoology with intentions of moving on
to graduate school for marine biology. Instead, I have been side-tracked the
past few years working as a chemist. I bought a new house a few months ago
and intend to finish the basement. Part of the basement is going to be
sectioned off into a fish room. My question then, is there grant money
available for such ventures and where would I look?
<Grant money... for? Building a fish room in your basement?>
Also, what is the best
way to go about having at least a part time income, e.g. research, breeding
and selling, etc.?
<Mmm, a bunch of things to relate here... First off, please do take a read through our aquatic business subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm>
I enjoy your web page and receive a lot of insight from
your answers. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Ron Looker
<There are a few avenues you might take... production of rarer cnidarians... Pacific Ricordeas (enhanced by cutting through siphonoglyphs)... Cespitularias... oculinids... You need to research your local market to gauge what might sell... and how much... to find if you're going to need to ship-out principally... There is a bunch more money to be made with far less time, hassle actually manufacturing a few well-placed aquatic chemical prep.s... or becoming a regional distributor of an import line... Bob Fenner>

Re: Your Business Opinion (clearer info.)
Hi Bob,
<Rachelle>
Thanks so much for responding, and so quickly.  I'm sorry, but I wasn't
very clear with my email.
My husband and I have a bit of capital which we are looking to invest in a
business.  We like the idea of artificial live rock and coral propagation,
because these products are renewable and have the potential for helping the
reefs.  Of course, we only like these ideas from an investing perspective
if they have realistic profit potentials.
<Coral propagating can be profitable... but takes a good long while to actually culture enough, become established to show a profit... likely between one and two years. Artificial live rock I would not try. Too much labor cost, energy cost, saltwater cost...>
We're not looking for creating an install/maintenance type business,
because that's really just a job.  My husband already makes a good living
as an attorney.  He'd like to do some other things, though.  Lawyering
isn't all that much fun.  What we really want is to create a business that
we can grow together . . . I'm sure you get the drift.
Any ideas?
Thanks again,
Rachelle
<There are some possibilities for importing, distributing aquarium product lines from overseas... And there is a huge gap for supplying products, even manufacturing some for the aquarium service industry... Culture of various organisms, groups can work but is less profitable, more work. Bob Fenner>

Opening a retail aquarium store 10/20/04
dear crew, I'm starting an aquarium business .what license do we need to apply in order to open a  retail fish store?
thank you - Patarawarn
<I'm very excited to hear of your endeavor... and strongly encourage you to do considerable research before you start. Please take to heart that you MUST do a detailed business plan (FNA, model, etc) if you are to have any hope of succeeding. Please do not underestimate this my friend. Get some easy software like Business Plan Pro to help you along. Use local Universities and business schools for free and paid consultations as well. Subscribe to the industry trade journals like Pet Business, Pet Age and Pet Supplies Marketing (find them with key word searches on the Net). And for specific info about your local laws and licensing - contact an accountant, the local Chamber of Commerce and your tax agencies (state, Federal). Best of luck! Anthony>

Questions about importing
Hello Bob. How's it going? My name is Brahm, I met you a while back at
Octopus's Gardens down in San Diego (Before Jason moved to Florida).
<Ah yes... and he may be coming back... maybe just flying with the hurricane winds!>
We
talked about my thoughts on opening up a store, well things are looking
like they are moving in the right direction, but I had a question, and I was
wondering if you might be able to help point me in correct direction.  I met
somebody online, in Melbourne, Australia. Who came across some very nice
Favias, and Acanthastreas lordhowensis & hillae. They are going to ship them
to a friend of mine in New South Wales who can hold them for.
She is also willing to ship them to me, but we aren't quite sure what we
need to do on the Australian side to obtain the proper permits for a one
time shipment if such a thing exists.
<Yes... they do... there are some Customs forms to file and CITES permits... that hopefully can be filled out on the Australian end and used all the way through to (LAX?) here. A very good idea to actually see, ask around to see if you can "piggy back" your small order with someone in the area (LA likely) who will umbrella your few boxes with their "can" (airfreight container)... otherwise the cost for individually doing this is going to be quite high. I am going to cc a friend in the trade, Barry Neigut of Clamsdirect.com (who is, or has just opened a retail outlet in SD) and ask him for input here. Maybe he knows someone who will co-op your shipment.>
What would be the best means to
export these pieces from Australia?
<The best? Don't know what you're looking for here... doubled 4 mil poly bags, clip closures, Styros, cardboard liners... in cargo container quantities, with you receiving ASAP from customs, your freight forwarder... IF you have NOT done this before, DO go, chat with people in the trade who DO on a regular basis. Am going to cc another friend in the trade, Eric Cohen, who owns and runs Sea Dwelling Creatures in LA, and ask him if he'd help you here... Importing aquatic livestock is "not for the feint of heart" or "light of wallet" to put this mildly... "Things" go wrong... all the time... shipments delayed, re-routed, time lost and lost and lost... disputes with carriers... DOAs... You REALLY need a large, going business, holding facilities... to justify doing what you propose... unless you're "just experimenting" here or hoping to get some unusual specimens... all this is going to cost you a few to several times what these organisms will/would cost you by ordering, picking them up at a distributor...>
Are there any coral export facilities
that I might be able to go through (that are trust worthy with such rare
pieces)?
<Yes. Ask Eric here>
Or would I be better of obtaining the permits on my own. I've
talked to Dave over at Pacific Aqua, and I think I can use his Cities on
Stateside, (or if you can point me to a broker). I would appreciate that...
<This is very nice of the folks at PAF... if they will co-op with you and you feel comfortable dealing with them. They also definitely know what they're doing>
Although I'm not too worried about the cost, I would like to look into maybe
offsetting some of the expense by bringing over a larger shipment of other
items (SPS, or hopefully more Acans if I can find them) which I can resale
to diffuse the cost.
<Bingo!>
But my main goal is just to get the Acanthastreas
lordhowensis as I have been doing quite well with propagating the current
pieces that I was lucky to either trade for, or pick up at LFS mis-labeled
as Blastomussa wellsi
<I see>
Included are a few pictures of the actual pieces. There are a total of 10.
Thanks for your time.
-Brahm Goodis.
<Glad to be of assistance. Bob Fenner>

Re: Questions about importing
Hey all,
<Hi Eric, thanks for chiming in>
From what I understand here, the corals are coming from Australia.  To  make
this conversation brief, it's illegal to export corals from  Australia.  
Unless you can get a cites permit from the government office  that works with cites
permits...I think you are out of luck.
If you find a way (a legal way), please let me in on it and we would be  
happy to assist you and give you your best chances to get the corals here alive  
and economically.
Best regards.....HI BOBBIE!
Eric
<Thanks mate. See you about. Bob Fenner>

Can I still get into the industry?
Hello Bob,
<< Blundell this morning. >>
I've just discovered WWM and started reading, so forgive me if I'm covering areas already covered.
<< No problem. >>
Everyone's story is unique I guess -- it seems a lot of the start-your-own-business questions are coming from people younger than me so maybe I should begin there.  You see I'm almost 52 now, with a long-forgotten B.S. in chemistry (always regretted it wasn't biology, but did take quite a few bio courses) --<< My BS is in Biology.... but I now work in Chemistry. >> and much drifting around in many jobs, always finding that the stress level seems so ridiculous to live with.  This is the NYC area (northern suburbs) and I've carved out a reasonable, treading-water-level of on again off again income as a software designer and developer.  Yes, as others have said on your website, it's been pretty rough.  Fortunately, I finally did find a well-paying job about 5 months ago -- so here I am at a crossroads:  it's no different being a programmer again: it's the same pushy people and the same level of killing yourself daily and pretending you love being in an office with the managers (when you only go because you want the paycheck) knowing that if they come up with an budget-conscious plan focusing on labor costs that becomes accepted, would fire you in a heartbeat anyway.
<< Terrible to hear. >>
I had freshwater tanks for almost 20 years from way way back at 7 years old -- gave it up at around 25 -- then I started again in 1996 (missed it so much!) and found myself totally focused in medium and low tech plant tanks. All we could afford.  Love it dearly -- it's the only area I've ever found where I know I would CONSISTENTLY enjoy working so hard.  Yes, this opens up many questions now, about my makeup, qualities and inferiorities.  But my point is that I would like to continue this love toward marine and reef areas too, and would throw myself totally into it -- but you see, with I.T. and software development there's no peace, no free time, and no relaxation other than surfing the web.  Programming for me has been an all inclusive passion because it's so time-consuming, so demanding, maddening and exhausting by it's very nature, so much so that it's becoming overwhelming as I get older and greyer.  I'm not interested in managing an I.T. department, and I'm sick of the projects and their management.  It's ridiculous.  Try so hard, get things productively done, and you're fired anyway.
<< Again that sounds terrible, far different than my career field. >>
Bob, I don't have the finances, nor the time left now, to be a retail clerk, or start a business, and making my wife and I live as comfortably as we can has been the only reason for bringin' home the bacon (when they let me) over the years.  We can't consider starting a store, nor an aquarium installation/maintenance business.  We live in a noisy, crummy little co-op (with a 55 gal and a 29 gal with happy fish and happy plants) apartment that we'd love to try and figure out how to move out of. This is all just protein-skimming the surface so far, but I'll close with the major question:  is there any hope for me to get in on some of the action, as another writer put it ?  Is it possible to "start" somewhere,  in aquatic maintenance specifically, or in ANY or ALL of the subfields -- even with all the danger signs I've told you here? << Hey if Calfo can do it anyone can (Just kidding you Ant;) ) >>  I DO HAVE some business skills, after listening to them b.s. all day for 30 years in meetings.  I'm also a brilliant conversationalist, and in one-on-one situations I'm thoroughly enjoyed by all contacts.  I'm well-read, well-educated and polished, considerate, warm, and charming, all of which I'm sure could be quite useful in a service capacity.  But really, I'd just rather work on the tanks most of all.  And I love the plants and substrates.  Favorite plant is probably Didiplis diandra, with Stargrass (Zosterfolia) a close second. Yes, I'll keep reading and reading -- pretty hard though, when you have to read 600 pounds of computer manuals all the time, and practice with page after page.  I'm still trying to read about Gettysburg ... I'm still trying to watch the Mets too!
Thank you for reading all this.  Please try to guide me -- pretty tough I know. << Not that hard at all for me.  I know you are looking at Tank Maintenance, but that isn't where I would go if I were you.  I think Calfo should be an icon in this hobby.  His ideas and lifestyle is where we should be going.  So with that in mind, I say become a Coral Farmer.  Set up a propagation facility in your basement/backyard/living room/bedroom wherever. >>  Can I help at WWM?  Can I be assigned as the 52 year old maintenance kid for accounts around here?  This area is lost in aquatics per se. << Well Bob will have to get back to you on that.  I'm not sure if he needs more free help.  I mean no one turns down help, but I'm not sure if/what he is looking for. >> This is all golf land around here, with rich people spending $9,000 for sofas and chairs before they'd spend $250 for a 55 gal...
<< Best of luck. >>
Nick in NY
<<  Blundell  >>