SW info sheet editing
Hey Bob, or whoever is available, << Adam here >>
This is Matt from Critter Cabana in Newberg, OR.  We are putting together a little info sheet for people who are new to saltwater and
have decided to get a tank. << I applaud any store who does this.  Too often store owners don't take the time to educate their customers. >> We basically just want to make sure everyone gets off to the right start no matter how much time we were able to spend with them.  We were wondering if you would be willing to edit our guide or make suggestions as you have much more experience in  this field and are experts at knowing the most common things people
are getting wrong or have questions about.  << Well I don't mind giving my input, depending on how big this is.  I've helped other stores make a little 3 page booklet, and other's make a one page quick info sheet.  So, I guess I say send it to me when you have it, and I'll see what I can do. >>  It would be greatly appreciated by us and all the future hobbyists in the Pacific NW.
Thanks, << Again, thanks for putting forth the extra effort. >>
Matt Johnson
Critter Cabana
<<  Adam Blundell  >>

Marine Livestock System, holding, processing, Indo. 
Dear Bob,
<Jimmy>
I am setting up a marine livestock in Indonesia and want to install the best possible filtration system I can.
Do you have a diagram or picture of how one of these systems is set up?
Can you drawn up your prospective plans for stands, aeration, filtration, tanks, plumbing...?
<Can... but "depends" on what you want to do (how many organisms or what type, how often you're shipping... and what you have available... natural water of what quality, synthetic... what if any mains power is available...>
I also consider about centralized filtration/skimming, I'm thinking a fluidized bed system would probably be best.
<Possibly... this technology is best able to "ramp up" to large, unstable bio-loads>
Is there any preference to what commercial filters would be used and that I should look into?
<Yes... but likely better to build it yourself there... have you been in the trade much? Gone out to any of the larger trade shows like Aquarama in Singapore?>
Fluidized bed would be only one aspect that needs consideration...
Skimming is definitely another... as is U.V. sterilization... for at least two separate systems, fishes and corals and what about quarantine?
Thanks and best regards,
Jimmy Diwan
<Sounds like you should spend some valuable time working for someone else for a while... I strongly suggest you NOT just jump into the industry w/o a good understanding of the technology involved, current business practices, the parties involved... Much cheaper to gain experience NOT first hand by trial and error. Bob Fenner>

Re: Central Filtration
Dear Bob,
<Clive>
I posted a link to your article on a yahoo group for aquarium business owners. It is part of an ongoing discussion about whether a CFS will be the best for my aquarium store. It would be really great if you can step in there and post your opinion on some of the points brought up.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaBiz
The discussion starts from about POST no. 98
<Mmm, my thoughts, opinions on the benefits, drawbacks of centralized filtration systems are posted on WWM and searchable by the Google feature on the homepage>
Also, could you please resend me the name of the book you recommended for setting up a Central Filtration System. I lost your email since I had to reformat my hard disk due to a virus attack.
<Mmm again, no. The several tens of thousands of such FAQs are posted variously on WWM as well. You can find yours by searching under your name or the topic>
I was wondering if there is any software for inventory control etc, for the
aquarium business.
<None specifically, but there are a few POS systems that incorporate code that include this feature/task. You can locate said providers through trade shows in the industry, or "buyer's guides" put out by the few extant business zines in our industry. Bob Fenner>
Thx,
Clive Fernandes

Re: Question from new retailer
I know Bob is in the Tropics, but would someone else take a look at my plans for the aquarium housing units and see if you notice any major flaws.  I think the picture is for the most part self explanatory.  The aquariums are acrylic with a blue background on both the sides and back, and built-in bulkheads.   Altogether I am paying about 1250 for each unit.  Any input is appreciated,
Thanks,
Matt Johnson
<Matt, where is the graphic to be found of these units? Not attached. Bob Fenner>

RE: Question from new retailer
Hmmm, that is weird, should be attached this time.  (It's in a PDF file because its the only way I could keep the numbers readable), Hope you had a good time on your trip... What exactly were you up to?
Matt Johnson
<Ah, there it is... at the very bottom, left. Nice graphic... I really don't like the "stacked" type of arrangement of this display design... too hard to work on, to clean, catch livestock out of... I prefer "stair-stepped" tiered arrangements of tanks like the customers themselves can buy, use... on sturdy wooden stands (four by's and two by's), carriage bolted and/or screwed together and painted/sealed... with more light fixtures (at least two fluorescents per tank)... much cheaper and functional. Oh, and the Nuka Hiva/Marquesas trip was a combination photographic and shell-collecting expedition... great fun and companions. Bob Fenner>

Re: Question from new retailer Thanks for the response, I've got a couple of clarifying questions for you. First, just so we are on the same page, the attached pictures are what you are talking about correct? <Mmm, no... this is entirely different. Sorry, but I seem to have mis-matched someone else's graphic/note with yours. Will show your images with this message.>   If so, how much of a problem is the "stacked" design, I have some concerns with the stair step perhaps you can address. <What you have shown is fine, in accord with what I would do. The lowest/lower row of tanks should be fine to "get into" though they are not "stair stepped".> The stair step would take an extra foot or so of floor space, which in my floor plan would either mean taking out fish tanks, or removing a foot of viewing area (currently around 50") <And make it harder, perhaps too difficult to reach the uppermost row> Am trying in the fish room to create as you suggested an enclosed, dark, undersea feel.  If I use an open design the light from the fixtures will go all over the place,  rather than the light only emanating from within the tank. <Yes, agreed> I have been trying to think of a way to cover up the mess behind the tanks in the stair stepped design, but I can't really think of a very good way to do so.  I'd like people to see at fist glance distinct fish tanks that may catch their interest, rather than an intimidating giant glob of evenly lighted tanks, pipes, and shelving structure. <Sounds good> As far as using aquariums that the customers can buy, I can see the reasoning, but is it practical?  Tank drains could get tricky, unless I were to personally make modifications to 100 different tanks.  Still I run into the problem of customers being able to see through the back and sides of the aquariums to all the back-end equipment. <Mmm, just the same size, shape tanks of about the same material construction is what I'm getting at> A lot of these things would be perfectly fine if my target market was hobbyists.  But I am a full line store with the general public as my primary market, a market that needs to be wooed into the hobby. Bearing this in mind would you still make the same recommendations? Matt Johnson <Hiding the lighting over the tanks as shown would be a good idea... and maybe trying to paint the plumbing behind them. Bob Fenner>

Question from new retailer continued 10/29/03
Not sure if you got my last email... it had a diagram attached... anyway, I have a new question for you.  
<Bob is out in the tropics for a few weeks... Anthony Calfo with the follow up>
I'm working on automating as many maintenance tasks as possible and am wondering what the best way to maintain my specific gravity, seems as though it could be difficult if I have a system that is automatically refilling water levels.  What water is lost from fish sales vs. evaporation? Matt Johnson
<this is easily accomplished my friend... I describe it briefly in my book of Coral Propagation (Concept Aquarium Dynamics chapter). The gist of it is to simply have a normal running level float tuned to be very sensitive but slow filling for evap top off... and a seawater float that is weakly sensitive but fast filling. Some interpretations can be done here too to tweak it for your system (like either or both on on/off timers to reduce the amount of overlap). Best regards, Anthony>

RE: Question from new retailer Would you cursorily look over my layout (attached), <Certainly will... but was/is not attached. Please re-send> I've made a lot of the changes you suggested, some things to keep in mind is that half of the area is under a very low roof because of a big mezzanine (not mine), so I tried to keep fixtures smaller.  Also, any unlabeled units are coming from DAS. <Okay> I'm a bit over my original budget ($65000 total on livestock display!)... Is this outrageous? <Not necessarily... instead, it may well be that your original estimate was unrealistically low... Good livestock display/presentation is often THE largest draw and "advertisement" one will have> The way I saw it, the more I spent, most likely the better my returns would be, and Am not in a cash deficient situation so I thought I would go for it... do you think this is foolish? <No... BUT do take care to not be under-capitalized (along with poor management, the twin most common causes of failure in our and most types of business)... I STRONGLY encourage people to figure on NO INCOME from their stores for at least two years... so their ongoing losses and expenses, including personal, must come from savings or borrowings> Something I am really clueless about is how to execute lighting in this store.  It has large windows, but not a lot of ambient lighting. <Have some "lighting contractors" come and tell you what they can do, what you might do... STAT! A very, make that critically important aspect of your shop... it must have good lighting in the drygoods area/s and subdued in the livestock> Let me know if you have got any tips for me... all are graciously welcomed. Matt Johnson <A lifetime's worth of input... but am unfamiliar with you, what you already know, what you might benefit from. You will assuredly learn... a great deal... and soon! Bob Fenner>

RE: Question from new retailer I don't know why the file wasn't attached... but I will try again.  If it doesn't work I could fax it, but this one is nice and color coded, and much larger than will fit through the fax. Matt Johnson <Ahh, there it is. Very nice. I think the lower ceiling in the back might actually work to your advantage. The sense of being confined, underwater is to be fostered where the aquatic livestock is. Bob Fenner>

Question/s from new retailer
I have made a lot of changes based on your suggestions.  I have another question or two for you.
<Okay>
I have a Loading dock in the back of the store kind of where my fish tanks are lined up... Right now I have it covered up... but I was thinking... Would that be very valuable to have?  if I were to keep that open I would essentially cut 5 or 6 feet off the back end of the store.  Basically I am asking, in your experience, what is worth more, a loading dock (all my other doors are 3' wide) or the extra floor space (probably all in all about 150 square feet and an employee only hole through my line of tanks would be sacrificed to make the loading dock accessible).
<Mmm, really depends on whether you could make "that much" use of the loading dock as such... IMO/E the extra 150 square feet of display space is much more desirable/useful>
Here is my other BIG question... on my wall shelving... I think that slat wall looks A LOT better than peg board... but I hear from other sources that the peg board is a lot more functional... what is your take on the two...
<The slat wall is and has been for several years "the thing" (see what the mass merchandisers like PetCo and PetSmart use... There are just as many and flexible fixtures that can be adapted to slat wall... and I also think it looks more clean and neat>
Thanks,
Matt Johnson
Critter Cabana
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Question from new retailer
<<<Thank you Bob for such a quick response, amazing really!>>>
>Thank goodness for the Internet<
I'm starting a store (full-line) in the near future, <Congratulations, and welcome to the trade> looking like an opening in February, and here is my question.  I am wanting to have a good marine section between 1000 and 2000 gallons (depending on price and space). I have been looking at the Dutch Aquarium systems units, which are the least expensive commercial units I have found, but they are still at around $2500 per 150 gallons.
<Yes... am familiar with DAS, I "talked" the folks at PetCo (I was their buyer in the dept) into switching to their fixtures in 93 for a while>
As you probably know, each one has an individual sump on the bottom level.  I am wondering if you or another company/consultant you know would be able to design a better system for cheaper.
<Mmm, yes... but... different. First off, I encourage you to consider "DIY" approaches (there are insights to these posted on WWM under the aquatics business subweb)... but do look at the Marineland, Tropic Marin and SeaClear/Tradewind/CASCO units as well... for ideas, comparisons in features, costs... and talk with others who have used this gear... for their input into utility, maintenance and total/net costs for operation... this varies widely>
<<<I have looked at all of these,  and I am mostly wondering whether or not the DIY is more cost efficient, is at seems like these systems make you pay for the engineering work that they have done.
>Mmm, depends on your time, perception of value... what you're looking for, can afford... To reemphasize the previous points re "other" help, DIY modes... it may well be that there is someone or a business that could help you "get the look" and functionality you're seeking... do you mind if we publish your phone number, and/or email address? Are you in TX? Or? Which town?<
I was hoping that you might be able to give me an idea as far as the total/net costs for operations on a DIY vs. a manufactured unit.  >>>
I have a basement underneath the building and any plumbing is VERY easy if there were to be a sump/sumps in the basement (LOTS OF ROOM!).
<You are indeed VERY fortunate here>
It seems like this could be more efficient than using my floor space for sumps with the DAS systems.
<Mmm, well, the smart designs don't take up much floor space (the retailing gallonage is above, with treatment and transit volume below in the stand/support part of the base>
<<< I was thinking that underneath space might be better used, maybe for something like live rock, but I guess its not that great of space... Would it be silly to put the filtration in the basement where water would have to be pumped an additional 10 feet? >>>
>Of a certainty, yes. Much better for looks, getting water changes, filtration maintenance done... just a bit more expensive in terms of costs for pumping water<
Could you break down for me really quickly the costs/tradeoffs here?
<As in? Not knowing you (your background, values) it is difficult (okay, impossible for me with much confidence) to make known what your options are... do you mind "tweaking, tinkering" with gear, making more manual changes, like water... at an initial cost savings? Or... would you rather have most everything "turn-key" and automated...?>
<<<I would love for everything to be turnkey, although I assumed everything even in a DIY could be made pretty just as turnkey.  I would really like to have the system be customizable and easy to tweak when I wanted to tweak, i.e.  If I decided I wanted to add a refugium or a better UV sterilizer it wouldn't be a big deal, or if I wanted to add a calcium reactor it could be done with ease >>>
>Maybe "next store"... as you'll find, the technology (and its spread/popularization is constantly changing... a lesson/step in "maturity" (coming to grips with the realization of ones limitations)... Be satisfied that you're doing your "best"... within the framework of what you're familiar with, budget, time considerations<
My other concern is aesthetic quality of a custom setup.  I'm trying to break the dingy pet store stigma and have a store that is top notch visually, and make a more emotional appeal to customers rather than the average pet store which I think assumes all purchase decisions within a pet store are rational.
<You are wise here... very good to have a "sharp" clean look, setting yourself apart...>
Is it possible to somewhat on a budget have a good looking custom set up?
<Yes... by searching. Have you already started... as in do you have the location set? Other display fixtures, the layout planned pretty much? Hard to start here "en media res">
<<<Other display fixtures are not set yet (although I do have some picked out, just not purchased), and layout not set, I think I knew the answer to this question already was that I can make it look good, but the better it looks the more time and money I will need to put into it >>>
>Yes<
BTW my budget for both freshwater and saltwater is around $25,000 and I have roughly 700 to 1000 square feet for the fish room, and Id like to have equal parts fresh and marine.
<Okay... can be done>
<<<Great, I may put more money in later, but that's what Id like to spend for now>>>
Tell me everything you can, you can call me too if you would prefer that to email. I love wetweb by the way, I don't know where I would be without it.
Matt Johnson
<May I ask, what part of the U.S. is this? Perhaps there are some that can/will rise to assist you here>
<<< I am in Newberg, Oregon... a town of 20,000, with no pet store within 15 miles (30 minute drive).  My main competition is Farm Supply stores, although most people have no knowledge these stores even carry pet supplies, I have a 3000 square foot retail area (an additional 600 square foot mezzanine which I am planning on using as an educational kids discovery area with classes and workshops to supplement the store, I'm still working on licensing and legal for that), I have a 1500 square foot basement with very easy access from within the store. That just gives you a little background>>>
>Sounds very nice<
Also, DAS did a store layout for me, I was wondering if you would just look at it real briefly and give me a second opinion about it, it doesn't seem to utilize the things I have learned about store layouts from trade shows and the like and Am a little concerned, I personally just graduated from college and don't have practical experience to guide me and I have to trust people.
<You ARE wise beyond your years... do remain skeptical, perhaps even a bit cynical re such "help" and opinions overall... gather enough information on "important" points till you know enough to feel comfortable with YOUR OWN decisions. Do you (hopefully) have a partner (someone with vested interest who will be ON the floor with you in this enterprise?)>
<<<I am trying to become comfortable with my own decisions... I feel a lot of pressure weighing on each decision I make, definitely makes me wish I had a little business experience in the industry... but my time is now as I have little personal responsibilities, and I feel as though my opportunity within the town may not last, as the previous pet store (very poor IMO) was very much lacking, and moved due to a change in career by the owners husband, not more than 5 months ago.  As far as on the floor partners... I have my wife who is very excited and willing to spend as much time as I am to make it work, beyond that I am planning to have one additional employee on the floor during business hours.  I myself am not an expert in fish but an intermediate hobbyist in reef at least.  I consider myself advance in reptiles and my wife is in mammals, I just graduated with a business degree in marketing, and it has been my life long dream to open a pet store. >>>
>A grand adventure awaits you<
If I could fax it to ya that would be great, let me know your fax, otherwise I could probably get it on the computer.
<Our fax line is 858-578-7372. There is much too much to discuss re these ventures to "chat over the phone"... and the retail side is (IMO/E of course) VERY difficult in many ways... I spent fourteen years "on the floor" myself... and many besides as a part owner of LFS's>
<<<I will fax you that floor plan, thanks for taking a look at it >>>
>A pleasure<
Just let me know what's easier for ya... if you are willing that is, if not, I am willing to pay you for any consultation.
<Not necessary or desired. I am pleased to assist you if I can. Your success is my own. Bob Fenner>
<<<You are a good man>>>
Matt Johnson
>I am myself. Be chatting, Bob Fenner<

RE: Layout questions from new retailer
It is ok if you want to post my name and email address.  Also, I just faxed that layout, let me know what you think.
Matt Johnson
<Received the fax and have gone over cursorily. Please refer to your copy here and my parenthetical remarks:
1) I would move your tanks/displays labeled "Show" in the back to the front/opening of the store. As it looks right now there is nothing to draw customers in, make it known what your business is about... consider placing some large exhibit right up front, where the public can see it going by and when first entering and leaving your business.
2) On a related note, do consider moving all the reptile displays to the back (maybe near the proposed turtle bay)... there are MANY people who have strong phobias re snakes, lizards, creepy-crawlies... and... these areas can be pretty smelly... by concentrating them near the back, hopefully you can provide aeration out from their area... and allow people who don't want to be near them a chance to get to other areas of your store.
3) The aquarium exhibits, are you yet set on the number, gallonage? In your area of 20k populace you may find that the aquatics area is a very large part of the draw, sales of your business... and may well want/need to expand the number of tanks, total gallonage... keep this in mind when considering the fixturization of the near areas... I would use easily moved islands, wall mounts that can be supplanted with more livestock structure if the need should evolve.
4) A very important item... I strongly advocate your re-orienting your drygoods aisles to make them parallel with the walls... This will save you a tremendous amount of floor space, greatly facilitate directing folks to the back of your store (and more sales) and... cut down on pilferage... from the vantage point of the sales counter, across to the opposing wall, you would/should be able to see if anyone is in the store and what they are doing.
5) Some unrelated items: Do caulk and place coving (the 4" high variety) as for bathrooms around the shared walls of your store... useful for cutting down "bugs" and damage from water spills... Do you have a floor drain (if so you're lucky). Part of our search for locations got extra bonus points if the space had been occupied by a restaurant or dry cleaners... for the floor drains and extra electrical power that was very likely there... Look for or install an air blower to vent air first thing in the mornings, if there is no other such device already. The area marked "Dry tanks" should have electrical pulled to it (or dropped down) for the eventuality that this space will become livestock display (you'll see).
Bob Fenner>

Question from new retailer 9/30/03
I'm starting a store (full-line) in the near future, <Congratulations, and welcome to the trade> looking like an opening in February, and here is my question.  I am wanting to have a good marine section between 1000 and 2000 gallons (depending on price and space). I have been looking at the Dutch Aquarium systems units, which are the least expensive commercial units I have found, but they are still at around $2500 per 150 gallons.
<Yes... am familiar with DAS, I "talked" the folks at PetCo (I was their buyer in the dept) into switching to their fixtures in 93 for a while>
As you probably know, each one has an individual sump on the bottom level.  I am wondering if you or another company/consultant you know would be able to design a better system for cheaper.
<Mmm, yes... but... different. First off, I encourage you to consider "DIY" approaches (there are insights to these posted on WWM under the aquatics business subweb)... but do look at the Marineland, Tropic Marin and SeaClear/Tradewind/CASCO units as well... for ideas, comparisons in features, costs... and talk with others who have used this gear... for their input into utility, maintenance and total/net costs for operation... this varies widely>
I have a basement underneath the building and any plumbing is VERY easy if there were to be a sump/sumps in the basement (LOTS OF ROOM!).
<You are indeed VERY fortunate here>
It seems like this could be more efficient than using my floor space for sumps with the DAS systems.
<Mmm, well, the smart designs don't take up much floor space (the retailing gallonage is above, with treatment and transit volume below in the stand/support part of the base>
Could you break down for me really quickly the costs/tradeoffs here?
<As in? Not knowing you (your background, values) it is difficult (okay, impossible for me with much confidence) to make known what your options are... do you mind "tweaking, tinkering" with gear, making more manual changes, like water... at an initial cost savings? Or... would you rather have most everything "turn-key" and automated...?>
My other concern is aesthetic quality of a custom setup.  I'm trying to break the dingy pet store stigma and have a store that is top notch visually, and make a more emotional appeal to customers rather than the average pet store which I think assumes all purchase decisions within a pet store are rational.
<You are wise here... very good to have a "sharp" clean look, setting yourself apart...>
Is it possibly to somewhat on a budget have a good looking custom set up?
<Yes... by searching. Have you already started... as in do you have the location set? Other display fixtures, the layout planned pretty much? Hard to start here "en media res">
BTW my budget for both freshwater and saltwater is around $25,000 and I have roughly 700 to 1000 square feet for the fish room, and Id like to have equal parts fresh and marine.
<Okay... can be done>
Tell me everything you can, you can call me too if you would prefer that to email.
I love wetweb by the way, I don't know where I would be without it.
Matt Johnson
<May I ask, what part of the U.S. is this? Perhaps there are some that can/will rise to assist you here>
Also, DAS did a store layout for me, I was wondering if you would just look at it real briefly and give me a second opinion about it, it doesn't seem to utilize the things I have learned about store layouts from trade shows and the like and Am a little concerned, I personally just graduated from college and don't have practical experience to guide me and I have to trust people.
<You ARE wise beyond your years... do remain skeptical, perhaps even a bit cynical re such "help" and opinions overall... gather enough information on "important" points till you know enough to feel comfortable with YOUR OWN decisions. Do you (hopefully) have a partner (someone with vested interest who will be ON the floor with you in this enterprise?)>
If I could fax it to ya that would be great, let me know your fax, otherwise I could probably get it on the computer.
<Our fax line is 858-578-7372. There is much too much to discuss re these ventures to "chat over the phone"... and the retail side is (IMO/E of course) VERY difficult in many ways... I spent fourteen years "on the floor" myself... and many besides as a part owner of LFS's>
Just let me know what's easier for ya... if you are willing that is, if not, I am willing to pay you for any consultation.
<Not necessary or desired. I am pleased to assist you if I can. Your success is my own. Bob Fenner>

- Finding Efficiencies in a Fish Room -
Hi Bob,
<Actually, JasonC here this time.>
I Love wetwebmedia - its one of my favorite fish websites. I refer people to it daily. <Glad you find it useful.>
I had a question for you, I'm in the negotiation (with wife) and design stage of building a fish room. In actuality it will be a 16x20 building in the backyard. With the ever increasing price of natural gas, propane, electricity and Water/Sewer. I've been looking for ways to make the new fish room more efficient, so the wife's nagging about the electricity, water/sewer and gas bills goes down. :)
The whole reason for building an out building, is so I can treat the room as a whole better than in the house. I'm planning to use radiant floor heating, to heat the whole room, rather than running heaters in each tanks. Filtration will be a 220v linear air pump, driving sponge filters. Lighting has been a sore point during the design, it would be nice to use natural light via some skylights, but that would result in a measurable loss in insulating ability of the roof. I'll probably end up using standard shop light fixtures w/ 34w T8s. <Nothing wrong with that, and really about as cheap AND efficient as you're going to get.> The boiler for the radiant floor heating is a dual fuel design, allowing switching between natural gas and propane, dependant upon which is cheaper at the time. But I don't think the wife will be too happy about a big propane tank in the back yard... <Bury it.>
Do you have any advice/suggestions? <Sounds like a good plan to me - just make sure your wife can't lock you in the shed and I think you'll be all set. ;-) >
Andy
<Cheers, J -- >

Wall units for retail pet shop
Hi, My husband and I are looking to start a pet shop up on the first of the year.  We need to find someone who builds a wall unit to hold separate tanks to sell our fish out of.  We would like something on the lines of a Wal-Mart or PetSmart setup.  Do you know of anyone.
Thanks,                                                            
Shannon
<There are a few companies. Marineland, SeaClear/Tradewind/Casco, Dutch Aquarium Systems, Tropic-Marin... If you have already decided not to try to build your own... I would (quickly) contact these (and other folks who your local drygoods wholesalers can/will help you identify) and ask them to send you information re their fixtures. Do you have time to visit the upcoming Backer/Christmas Trade Show (in Chicago, in a few weeks)? You may well gain very valuable insights re this issue and many more by such a visit. The above companies can likely be reached through the Internet... or Pet Business' "Ready Reference" annual issue. Bob Fenner>

Re: business setup
the five critical elements of business: setup, does not have anything in it.
I was wondering if I could get this information. Thanks Rob Harnish   
<Thanks for asking... took a bit of looking for an already-keyed copy. Here tis: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizsetup.htm
Mmm, maybe I can find the time to place the further subdivided ideas/sections in this series... Bob Fenner>

Coral Propagation for Commercial Venture
What would the best be to construct a green house? I live in west Florida, lots of sun. How could I do it, propagating corals that is?
<These questions can not possibly be answered completely in a simple email. Before you begin this venture, please invest in a good book. Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation" is explicitly intended for this purpose. You can find it here http://www.readingtrees.com/ along with various other online retailers.>
Thanks a lot, Rob
<Best of luck to you! -Steven Pro>

Re: skimmer manufacturers
>I don't think I had to do the reference thing. I do remember doing 
>it for All Seas Marine, though. -Steven Pro
Maybe it's me, or my age and expectations?
I expect that if I want to sell my product, that aside from financial and business documentation, that I have to *serve* all takers equally, with respect, like I *want* their business.
I was in the horticulture business for sometime and I dealt with all sorts of wholesalers and customers.
It was *never* considered *my* privilege to purchase from any manufacturer or wholesaler, it was always *their* privilege to *sell* to *me*. It was ALWAYS my privilege to sell my product to anyone.
It is a HUGE warning flag when it becomes a "privilege" to *purchase*, use and sell someone's product.
This is what Euro-Reef writes:
"The following is a list of information we require in order to process your request for pricing and dealership privileges."
I'm not selling cars, I'm outfitting several thousand gallons of grow out and holding vats with skimmers and perhaps selling them retail here and on-line.
It's not privilege, it's a job and a service.
To me this is indicative of a poor attitude or a company that obviously has all the business and customers it wants and doesn't need any more.
Bob, this is another version of the bank that will only loan money to those who don't need it. Whether they have a good product or not.
Craig
<Mmm, in the realm of human interaction, what I think we have here is a conflict of perception (not value...) and easily "solved" or at least resolved... The Macare's intend (am very sure) an understanding of only "who" they want to deal with... not an arbitrary distinction of "we'll choose"... Have you called Jeff, Bob re? They don't "sell direct"... to the end-user, consumer... for good reasons. If there is further confusion on this matter, pls do contact me. Bob Fenner>

Re: skimmer manufacturers
Hidy Ho, Bob,
I wrote Jeff and explained my situation, I don't expect I'll get an answer before Monday.
We'll see if it's possible to proceed from there.
They (Euro-Reef) do sell direct wholesale. I called and talked to them directly before I received the response by e-mail from Jeff.
<Really? Mmm, perhaps we aren't talking the same thing... this can work out... but am surprised they don't just sell through distributors... If someone with similar products could put them out of business in a year or two with just this difference in approach to sales, distribution...>
f the end user is not a retail customer but a licensed grower (me), importer, wholesaler (me) or retailer (me) that uses the product to produce goods and services (me), then they pay use or sales tax, but they buy wholesale, *not* retail (me).
<I see...>
No confusion Mi Amigo!
<All right... Good luck. Bob F>
Craig

Question for Anthony
First, I just wanted to say "thanks" to Anthony for speaking at That Fish Place in Lancaster last weekend, it was both informative and interesting.
<thanks kindly... my pleasure>
Which leads me directly to my question, what was your opinion of the tanks, etc at TFP? 
<it is a difficult thing to say fairly. The industry benefits from very successful merchants like TFP and they do us a great service of attracting a great number of new hobbyists into our fold. Yet, they are challenged by their very success and the sheer volume of product that they turn over to maintain all animals/fishes in optimal health. It is a truly difficult and challenging thing to do when the turnover rate is so fast. Still... they offer a huge selection and great variety of choices. My advice is that even if we could say that the condition of their fishes is a bit rough at times, they are still a far better choice than mail order. And much can be easily overcome if you do yourself the favor of properly quarantining all new animals at home for 2-4 weeks. QT is critical for success with marine animals... never assume that because an animal looks to be in superb health that it is not carrying a pest predator or disease. And so... to answer your question. I found their invertebrates to be in excellent condition and good variety/supply. Their fishes that weekend seemed to be in average condition to me but caused little worry to me as I am (finally :) ) patient enough as an aquarist to QT all new purchases at home without exception. That includes live rock, coral, plants, corals, crustaceans, fishes...everything wet! If you can be equally diligent... you will have far greater success with livestock from any merchant and you'll be able to take advantage of TFP large selection and variety. Mail order livestock should really be a last resort>
As a new hobbyist in the area, I am realizing I don't have a lot of saltwater LFS choices, thus its hard to tell the quality of the livestock when I have nothing to compare it to. 
<yes, understood and agreed my friend>
I am determined to only support conscientious suppliers and retailers, and am simply looking for an impartial opinion as to how TFP measures up to others you have seen in your extensive travels.
<you'll find that the smaller stores that move less product have sometimes healthier stock but necessarily higher prices. I have complete confidence in QT procedures and so can afford to purchase livestock from such bigger merchants and selections. If you choose not to QT livestock you will need to find a merchant that holds their fishes longer for evaluation and be willing to pay the higher price.>
Thanks, Ryan Achenbach
<best regards in your endeavors! Do browse through our archives here at wetwebmedia.com for more info on QT protocol, mail order fishes, and like topics. Use the google WWM search tool at the bottom of the index/home page. Be seeing you at the Anniversary sale again in April at TFP :) Anthony>

International Exhibits Information
Dear Bob,
I would like to invite you to visit our web site at www.internationalexhibits.com Please be advised that we are in the process of updating the site. Although it contains 176 pages, this represents about 1/3 of our product lines. Currently, we manufacture 8 product lines and have distribution rights on another 20+ lines. If you have an interest in a specific product I will obtain information from our archived files for your review.
For your display needs we have distribution rights with Recom Group, a large corporation comprised of numerous companies. Each company manufactures a different type of in-store display, ranging from cardboard to acrylic to wire displays to modular wooden displays. Depending on the item, our wholesale rate is typically 30% below the retail price for cardboard displays and 40% below the retail price for all other items. We split the difference between wholesale and retail with our customers. As a result, you will save 15% to 20% .
Note: there are several web sites for their product lines. Please go to www.discountdisplay.com www.cardboarddisplays.com www.recomgroup.com
Need more information on what you're looking for? Feel free to email or call me with any questions or concerns.
Thank you for your response,
Susan Pryor
313.387.2070
<Thank you for the input. We have many friends, associates who build, re-do their booth displays... will accumulate your mail, info. on the business subweb on WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>

Another Question (the pet-fish industry, retail...)
Hi Bob,
I have one more thing I need help on. If I emailed you a picture of how my store is set up right now, and the condition it is in, could you suggest how I should go about rearranging it to cut down on our shrinkage, to increase our visual appeal, and to maximize our use of space? 
<Likely, yes>
I'd really also be interested in opinions on how kiosks / special displays and the such would work with our location.
<Perhaps we can/should "quit our day-jobs" and write up a tome or two on modern retail merchandising? Seriously, there is MUCH to discuss here>
Let me know if you'd be willing to take a look, or if you also know anyone that would be willing to take a look at photos and give some ideas.
Also, do you have any knowledge about the current state of point of sale systems?
<A little. I attend a few of the national and international trade shows in the industry every year, and have done so for decades>
We were using a system for the past 12 years, and it died recently, and we need to find a new system. If you don't know about them, did I read correctly that you work for Petco?
<Yes, for three years in the early nineties, bringing on (making real) their livestock (principally aquatics, some reptile) lines; livestock and drygoods... very challenging and rewarding work>
Could you put me in touch with someone who does know about them but would be impartial as to which system is best and would be willing to give out info?
<Need to know "you" better to help determinately... Did you go to the Atlantic Backer Show this last weekend? Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Ben
Maryland

Multi Tank Filtration
Bob, I was reading your article on Wet Web Media and have more questions. I'm sorry but I simply cannot get a picture in my head of how this all works (call me dense!)
<Just don't call me late to dinner>
I am setting up a pet store and want to install the best possible filtration system I can. Do you have a diagram or picture of how one of these systems is set up?
<A bunch in my ancient files likely>
I have looked at local fish shops, but most of it is hidden from view and most owners are not too keen on helping out the competition. I can't afford a commercial system, so I want to do it myself. I have lots of experience with single tank systems but nothing with these larger setups. Any additional information you can provide is appreciated.
Ty
<Need more specifics. Have you drawn up your prospective plans for stands, aeration, filtration, tanks, plumbing...? Will take a look at what you have if you'd like. Bob Fenner, just back from Australia>

Re: Multi Tank Filtration
Thanks for the reply Bob, but I think I have it figured out.
<Good to hear/read. Please write if I may be of assistance. Bob Fenner>
Ty

Commercial setup questions
Robert/Anthony (or whomever :-), Hey, doing some research into setting up a marine fish store (with a bit of fresh water on the side).
<A bold move!>
After doing a lot of research your site, manufacturer sites) and visiting several in the area and away from the area stores, I still have some questions/issues (outside of the business ones).
<I would hope so>
-Easy Question: Where is the source to find the store buyers guide. I keep seeing it references, but have not been able to find that one.
<Take a read through the existing industry magazines... Pet Industry News (Fancy Publications), Pet Business...>
-Doing centralized filtration/skimming. If we're looking at pushing several thousand gallons of water (let's say 4000-5000 gallons of tanks - yes there will be some large and a lot of holding tanks), I imagine a fluidized bed
system would probably be best. I imagine we could get away with trickle, but it would seriously be pushing it. Is there any preference to what commercial filters would be used and that I should look into (Aquaneer, RK2,
Emperor aquatics ??). Any others worth mentioning ??
<Fluidized bed would be only one aspect that needs consideration... Skimming is definitely another... as is U.V. sterilization... for at least two separate systems, fishes and non-... and what about quarantine? Do contact the Krechters at RK2, the fine folks at Emperor Aquatics... and consider piecing their mechanicals together yourself... much savings here.
-If you do centralized filtration/skimming, one overdone system, or two sized identically to handle the load and doubled up to be in parallel (in case one fails). Also, how are these 'pallet' systems by RK2, Emperor,
Aquaneer ?
<At least two>
-Even if you quarantine, I'm not sure c. irritans and other parasites can be completely eradicated in all tanks all the time. So, what is the best method for control of that is used to control such parasites ?
<Careful buying, selection of livestock from reputable sources, dip/bath and possibly quarantine procedures, optimized holding facilities and nutrition... See the "Three Sets of Factors: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm >
Is it with the 300W UV's that are used in the filter systems that I see ? Or the 25 micron filters that they seem to be used with bead systems ? 
<Can't tell what you see. The UVs need to be matched with water flow to be effective, would not use micron filters in a store setting (too much maintenance)>
That sounds like it'll filter out quite a few parasites, but only if it makes it to the filter, and not the ones that attach and spawn in-tank.. .. I'd like to quarantine for two weeks to insure health and feeding, but at the same time, not even sure the quarantine system can remain parasite free.
<This can be, is actually done by a few outlets... they "nuke" the filter media (culturing new all the time in their main/display systems) with bleach between batches of livestock... and are meticulous about keeping nets, other gear in use only with the quarantine system>
If that gets affected, you have to bring it down to eradicate it. Do people who quarantine, have a set of quarantine systems for every shipment they bring in (otherwise you won't have a 'clean' system for your quarantine for the
incoming shipment) ?
<More of the former... In actual practice most people "get away" with the "Guerilla Acclimating Techniques" listed on WWM>
-For your nice display tanks (the ones that you have showing, but aren't for sale) - do you plumb that into your main filter systems or do you isolate for safety ? The advantage is water stability, but the disadvantage is possibly having something take down your showcase tanks as well. I don't think the stability issue would be too much in a 225, 400, 600 gallon display tank, but the reduced maintenance is definitely a plus. 
<A bit of both, either is what I/we've done in actual practice>
However, if the above answer of having sterile tanks being ok, then its not a big deal to plumb into central systems.
-Amount you want to turn over in your display tanks ? Generally in home tanks, I turn over 10x. Any rule of thumb for store displays ? It looks significantly less at 'most' stores, but that may be from want to saving power. Dunno.
<Four or more times is about right>
-Amount of new water replaced added per day ? I imagine that a small amount of water changed out per day, rather than larger 'water change' every week is much better. Is there a percentage that should be strived for in this
environ (2%, 3%, 5% per day ???)
<Generally, make up water from selling livestock is about all that's needed for replacement... a few percent likely... in sumps, pre-made...>
- Optimum 'store' conditions ? Temp -78 ? Salinity of 1.021 (or lower to save on salt) ? 
<Too large questions... some organisms likely lower, higher... Here's where sub-systems for displaying frags, high-temp. tropicals come in... and spg, only this low in FO systems... and even then, not for all fishes... e.g. syngnathids, amphiprionines prefer higher density water>
PH ?. Also, how do you buffer PH in a system like this that doesn't have a lot of buffering capability ? Same reef buffers that are used by hobbyists, but on a larger bulk scale ?
<Ah! 8.2-8.4 pH ideally... and plenty of buffering capacity. And not achieved through expensive, vacillating supplement methods... best by use of a calcium reactor... Cheapest, most stable mode>
-One thing I have noticed. There are a lot of sick fish out there. If you had customers sign a waiver, would it be possible to charge for hospitalization of fish. most fish just need a monitored stable copper, hypo or anti-biotic treatment for the most common diseases since most people don't have the time, money, or capability, or desire to adequately treat fish. Or would this cut into too your sales of 'marginal use' products (like kick ich, rid-ich, clout, etc).
<Better to simply provide the better, best livestock yourself... as you'll see. You are not, do not want to be in "the human behavior business", but the "Pet-fish business">
-Premixing of salt water. Is there any slightly more automated way of doing this, even in a slightly larger setup. Or is it done pretty much the same way - large vat of holding water, dump the amount of salt in and let the pump aerate/mix for a day - then pump it to the salt water holding tanks ?
<All sorts of ways... wish you could come out and see Quality Marine's systems in Los Angeles... but you want the mixing sump/s t be circulated, warmed... near the sumps they will serve (manually) and the water serving them with a spigot "right there">
-Is it better to have a chiller in line, or have a very good air conditioner and use ambient temp to keep tank temperatures in line ? Heating is easy, no issues there.
<In almost all cases, in-line is better, less money to acquire, operate.>
-For tank drains, I noticed all are basically overflowed (about 3/4 or 1") into a larger Drain line. usually like 12-24 tanks are drained into a 3" sump drain line (slight pitched down) to the main sump area. Island type of areas are drained to an immediate sump which are then pumped to the main sump. Would it be advisable to put ball valves off of each tank ( $10 extra/tank which is not a big deal) before they get to the main drain line ?
<Mmm, no... just believe in gravity if have, want to shut off a tank from the main system... have the valves on the discharge side going into the tanks>
You could then 'cut off' a tank if you needed to and treat/dry/replace/clean a tank, without anything going into the 'mains'. Any benefit there ?
<None really... and too hard to get to shut off (too much space lost behind tanks... expensive), too much likelihood of overflows...>
Actually in one store I saw, everything was to intermediate sumps and then pumped to the main sump. Not sure if it wasn't designed properly or not but it did have islands of tanks which pose a problem to get water back into the 'back' and probably the 'low' tanks didn't have enough vertical height to properly 'drain' into the sump. 
<This happens too often. What should be arranged is the overflows are tied to "crosses" behind the tanks (to allow venting) and the "down spout" of the crosses drop immediate down a foot or more to the "sloped drain line" that returns water to the sump>
Not sure if it was intentional, but was thinking that it may be a good design anyway. That allows your sump to be a
bit 'taller' rather than short and wide (taking up less space). Is this feasible ? What would be the proper sizing for a commercial type of sump ? 25% of total gallons ?
<As large as possible, practical>
-For returns, how do you handle even flow to all tanks. Obviously you have a few return pumps pumping into a larger pipe, but do you just use T's to separate water for all the tanks and then let them drain into tanks. How do you achieve relatively equal water flow ?
<Valves, all plastic>
or at least be able to send more water to certain larger tanks like 60/80/100's rather than your smaller 40's ? I imagine 1" returns are probably ok.
<Two inch, bushed down to 3/4" is almost standard... once again "conventions" of what is available stock and cost per unit>
-Business question - what is the general ratio of dry good sales to wet goods in a decently run store ?
<The higher dry goods the better... very few stores make any money on livestock (really)... Should you go ahead with your plan/adventure/enterprise, we will re-visit this issue>
Obviously the numbers are different, just looking for ballpark here. Obviously a lot of emphasis will have to be put
on dry goods since there is a lot of sales there as well.
<And almost all profit>
Thanks for any help. I have a good idea of what's going on and what's needed, but should I look at a consultant in these types of matters as well, or just learn as you go ? Anything I'm really missing here ?
<The very best advice I can offer in these regards is for you to "go, work in the field, in as many aspects (wholesale, manufacturing, definitely retail...) for companies you admire for as long as you deem prudent to gain a firm understanding of what you're about here". I take it you do, will have an "on the floor" equity partner here... Do not go forward in any substantive way (lease, gear purchases...) w/o securing this relationship... Believe me, you cannot, will not, will not want to operate a store w/o such a liaison. Find someone with confluent dreams and more importantly values... Be chatting. Bob Fenner>
Ed

Re: Commercial setup questions
Robert, thanks for the responses. Obviously a follow up in order :-).
I'll look into some of the industry magazine, and see what I can dig up. Don't always see them around.
<Not about much... in recent years have become exceedingly thinly-disguised product and service endorsements... but still worthwhile to "read between the lines"... and particularly useful for their annual "Buyer's Guides".>
-Yes I understand that beside fluidized bed, there is also the skimmer aspect of it. I've seen some even with 'bead filters' as well. I'll definitely talk to the guys at RK2. Even the RK2 guys have 'pallet'
all-in-one filters (FBF, skimmer, UV interconnected) ready to go. Are you saying that there may be significant savings to be had by going their separate mechanicals rather than those interconnected systems ?
<Yes... Rob and Chris Krechter are friends, but their units are exceedingly expensive.>
-Yes there will probably have to be separate systems, cold water (if we do that), fresh water, marine-fish, and marine-invert/corals. Ironically, we may start out marine only, doing the two marine ones first and then rolling fresh in later. 
<Ironical? In what way/s?>
Your comment 'at least two', is that in reference to marine fish and marine invert/corals - or two for each ?
<At least two total... likely more>
-Yes the quarantine is still an issue. I can see where you're saying a complete one-time use system (open, not closed for each quarantine batch), will essentially neutralize that system. I guess within a batch, there is going to be issues where some may be sick (perhaps unavoidable no matter how good your suppliers are at times) and must be treated. But that also assumes a single shipment for every quarantine system that you have.
<Or time frame more likely... as in all in, all out every two weeks or so...>
-Obviously the dipping/guerilla acclimation will be followed diligently.
-However, let's assume that everything is properly quarantined. If you somehow do get marine ich, or a parasite in your tank, how is that usually treated ? You obviously don't go fallow and flush out your entire store of whatever number of tanks do you ? Do you medicate your entire fish 'line' to remove it (that's a lot of meds that generally I imagine you don't want to do :), or will the aggressive UV (since home UV is marginally effective due to size/power) of a commercial unit work(150-300W) on eradicating it ? If that route is implemented, it will be sized and flowed following manufacturers recommended flow rates. I just can't imagine an entire fish line staying completely parasite free with the turnover that happens. With hobby tanks, it is achievable with diligent quarantining, but retail ??
<About all the above techniques do occur, are put in use... very much like the same challenges that face hobbyists...>
-You mention subsystems, for a good network, how many ? Is it easier/better/cheaper to size smaller with multiple systems than doing two single larger ones. I mean having 6 or so 1000g lines are much easier to spec out (more availability of equipment) than two 3000/4000 (actually more like a 5000 and a 1000).
<Mmm, both can be more difficult...>
If its just a salinity issue, I'll drop that and not worry about salt costs, that's minor compared to labor..
. Tradeoff on multiple systems is maintenance, but how many are needed vs desired ?
<Not salinity issue alone... safety, not having whole store with troubles (along with prophylactic measures of sterilizing nets, specimen containers...) due to mixing of water/systems>
-Was looking at running a 500/1000 gph  <Mmm, not this big, fast...> RO unit and having it go into a 1000 gallon water holding tank there. All water would then be run from there, as you indicated, the mixes would be 'tapped' from there, mixed, aerated, aged and them pumped to the salt water holding tanks (probably a 1000 gallon storage tank there as well). or it may be two tanks, with one for drawing from, while the second one was aged, but that just confuses things.
<Okay>
-Ah, yes on the ball valve cut off. I saw them on the returns to cut off a tank, not the other way. So with a return valve, do you recommend their use on individual tanks, or not useful at all ? If they are used to control flow, then I imagine they are needed/used. Ball valve or gate valves ? Gates, right ?
<Ball are better IMO/E... if you use gates, silicone over the screws on the handles>
-For returns, from an island on the floor setup, I imagine that you would drain to an intermediate sump and pump to your main sump ?
<No, all to a/the main sumps>
-The plan is to have all work done behind the tanks (there will be walkways behind the tanks out of customer view).  <The costs of rental space needs to be considered here... do work on alternate lay-outs...> A bit more space, but I've seen some very elegant layouts where everything was dark (even lit) but all tanks were designed like they were in-wall (with sliding access covers above each tank). All work/plumbing was not visible and behind/above the tanks (with
above being covered by the sliding access panels).
-Human behaviour. Not trying to change human behaviour by hospitalizing fish - just trying to profit on it by providing a 'service'. Understand your point on being in the 'right' business though.
<Very well>
-May visit out there. Did you say Quality Marine and Underwater world are good places to visit to see this in action ?
<Yes, as wholesalers... as are Sea Dwelling Creatures, All Seas... many others in the L.A. area.>
Hmm, drygoods are that extensive huh ? I figured it was very important, but didn't realize that the fish were loss leaders. Sounds like all the work
for fish is pretty much to draw people in to buy dry goods. 
<Bingo... that, and to keep the folks who work the floor/store so many days, hours from going bonkers, losing their sense of place...>
We are planning on doing a large nice looking fish layout, but just to be slightly 'over the top' as that draws more traffic. I've noticed that I gravitate toward
stores with very interesting fish, and ones that have 'amazing' displays.
<A good approach>
If drygoods are what drives this, then I imagine its better to have a few large display tanks 500gallon and 1000 gallon types, and work more on
presentation of display for success. 
<Mmm, depends on your customer mix, what you are trying to achieve... I am more of the mind to display systems like your proposed "end-users" can/will employ... Hence, in some neighborhoods, smaller systems utilizing gear they can/will purchase from you makes more sense... In other settings, where you will be doing custom installs and maintenance (out of your shop), you will do better with more spectacular, larger set-ups>
Sounds like a real disappointing way to proceed, but is all too frequent the reality behind the business huh ?
<I find it neither disappointing, nor "real"... more a challenge and "made reality">
What do you mean, by re-visiting this issue ? Are there better methods to achieving this ?
<Mmm, simply "forecasting" here... Retain our correspondence and come back and read it months, years later...>
Perhaps direct importation of certain species from exporters in Indonesia/et al and dealing with the bad stock oneself ? (I actually have a lot of importation knowledge from another business I have, but not in live goods :).
<You are getting way too far ahead of yourself here. Walk first, crawl if necessary>
No real necessity on the equity side, but would like to make a go of it if I can do it without losing my shirt on it. It has been a nice hobby and I do have trusted people/family who would share in it.
<Only proceed if "they" as in someone/s will/are committed to being there, as in "on the floor". Our old businesses, corporations built out dozens of stores for ourselves and other people... We got to the (good) point of not going ahead with any w/o this stipulation being met. I will not help you period (lost sleep, money, happiness, livestock) w/o a real partner. Bob Fenner>
regards,
Ed

Ich prevention (at the retail level)
Anthony, et al Just curious. At one point I was thinking of opening a fish store (still in the back of my mind). Anyhow, I know quarantining is the safest method for hobbyists. However, how to local pet stores who bring in large quantities of fish into their display tanks prevent or treat ich ? Especially since all or a lot of them) are centrally plumbed to the same filter/skimmer ? If you did a system, chances are you would plumb most of your tanks to a common filter/water flow system. Anyhow, that would mean the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite has free flow into all the tanks - and would possibly infect all the tanks and their inhabitants.
What is the general method to prevent ? just put it out and hope it doesn't break out. if it does, then put them in treatment tanks ? that gets ugly since chances are if one has it in a tank, the entire tank's inhabitants are possibly affected. Do stores have a constant flow of trace amounts of copper for prevention ? I know 99% of stores are not going to quarantine for two weeks, and ich is bound to break out at some point, and the entire system will be compromised. . . Any idea ? Thanks Ed
<Most stores use one of several methods for parasite control. 1.) Separate systems for fish & inverts with the fish system maintaining a preventative level of copper or malachite green/formalin 2.) Massive UV and/or use of ozone 3.) Hyposalinity You can read much more on central systems under the Business section of WWM. -Steven Pro>

Re: Commercial setup questions
Again, thanks for the time. It's more the architecting of the systems than anything else that determines setup.
<Okay>
Yes, I'm aware of RK2 being sinfully expensive, but also quite good. I got most of there information from their design site that isn't up yet :-). 
<Have been on those boys re this for... years now!>
But since this isn't a commercial fishery (yet :), your point of multiple subsystems is definitely worth considering and brainstorming before deciding. I was actually more inclined to get two larger systems (probably small/mid size RK2 units) for the entire marine setup, than the multiple units. However, with the advantages of multiple subsystems (isolation, flexibility, eggs in one basket), the architecting is significantly different - basically having filter/skimmer setups for each 'line' would be called for. In that case, the RK2 stuff would be overkill, and probably more along the lines of multiple Marine Technical's, ETSS's larger commercial units running for each 'subsystem'.
<Better, yes>
-OK, did some research on UV and dwell times and parasitic death/mutations. It appears that high powered UV is what is used at a lot of places to keep these under control and does it quite well. Just not as effective at hobby levels. . Still no substitute for quarantine and dipping, but definitely nice to know.
<Yes>
-Now have to think about quarantining systems for a few days. It may be better to consider quarantining offsite (away from retail space), if it gets extensive. However, depends on shipment timing and as you said - all in, all out, or running two lines for q-tank. Off site quarantining and then shipping in would be the ideal way, but obviously, walking first would be better. 
<Yes... have tried to talk, shame, harass the trade into providing better livestock at the collection through pre- and post-retailer levels all my professional life>
Was just thinking offsite, since that could essentially be done now for some experience :-) - get 12-16 tank holding system, bring them in, dip, and hold in q-tanks and get used to that whole 'process'.
<Too stressful to be too "off-site"... many advantages, real and P.R. wise to being "on-site". Would easily trade off the "behind the tanks&qu