Re: DISCUS AND AMMONIA SPIKE AFTERMATH... induced Discus prob.s, hypochondria... reading  2/1/08
Hi , thanks for your response
<... where is the prev. corr.?>
to my ammonia issue I bought the AmQuel + and that has resolved the ammonia( chloramine in my tap water at H20 changes), can I use this everyday at water changes the bottle says to wait 24 hours between applications and since I need to do wc everyday is it ok.
<Can be used daily, continuously if necessary>
Second question is I noticed that one of my discus has two small white spots on his caudal fin, treated with combo formalin and malachite green per directions for three days (whole tank)
<!? VERY toxic... I would NOT place formalin in a biological system>
with wc of 20% each day, also the carbon was removed.
<Likely all your biological filtration/nitrifiers have been wiped out>
However on the second day of treatment I noticed that the fish looked like they had Finrot and on two of them they appeared to have swollen abdomens, as well as red around the nose area.
<Effects of formalin poisoning and nitrogenous waste exposure...>
I did a 65% wc and replaced the carbon. My nitrites spiked to 0.3mg/l and the ph was at 7.8 which is normally 7.6. I should mention that the tank was setup in late Sept. and was cycled properly (AQUACLEAR 110) but I live in an area where we are experiencing more
frequent power outages and I am not always at home so the time the filter is down is not always noted. I have a 75 gal, with two filters a BioWheel 330 and a AquaClear 110 the latter was the original and it was the one that I turned off (fear of media had become anaerobic) after an outage of 4 hours in late Dec.
<Likely so>
which meant the BioWheel was only cycled for about 3 weeks and on its own. I Have since put some filter media in from a well established tank on Tues. of this week can't find BioSpira even on the Marineland site says error when click to buy. Could this and the combo of the ammonia (that is in tap water) spike caused this problem in my tank with my fish.
<Yes>
Could it be a bacterial infection.
<Is this a question?>
This is all the symptoms that my fish are displaying dark colored, clamped fins, as of today they don't look swollen in the abdomen, Finrot looks a little better gave 1 treatment of parasite clear tank buddies by jungle active ingred. ( Praziquantel, Diflubenzuron, Metronidazole and acriflavine)
<... for?>
and redness around their nose area. What to do next I haven't done anymore Rx only added salt
<? On Symphysodon? A poor idea>
and have kept lights off and feeding sparingly they haven't seemed to have lost their appetite at all. Thanks in advance.
<Uhh, I'd stop pouring in medications (you're killing these animals with same) and invest your money and time in educating yourself... There are quite a few good Discus books about, and some useful information on the Net re the genus. Ours: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/discusfish.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Ammonia, FW  1/27/08
Dear Crew-
<Greetings.>
I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank with 2 Bio-Wheel filters. My current livestock consists of 2 parrot fish, Pleco, sword tail and a barb. I set this tank up a Christmas time and I am having a VERY hard time with the ammonia.. My ammonia is reading about 4 and the nitrate about 2.
<Seriously...? Ammonia above even 1 mg/l is basically lethal to fish, and you're running at 4 times that! Not good. Almost certainly you added too much stuff. An aquarium takes 6 weeks to mature. It's not 4 weeks since Christmas. Moreover a 30 gallon tank is WAY too small for the types of fish you have. Swordtails and barbs are both good choices, but Parrot Fish (by which I assume you mean those mutant cichlid hybrids) are not community fish and are best on their own. They are also (like virtually all cichlids) both messy and sensitive to poor water quality. Some barbs (e.g., Tiger Barbs) are fin-nippers and will harass fish as unwilling/unable to swim as Parrot Fish. Your Plec -- if the common variety -- gets to 40 cm or so in length, and isn't viable in anything less than a 55 gallon tank in even the medium term (expect full size within 2 years!). In short, I suspect you didn't actually do any research before buying fish, and just bought a bunch of things you liked. While that's a fine approach when shopping for cut flowers or potato chips, it's not really viable in fishkeeping.>
I have done partial water changes, and have even changed all the water. Tests go down, but are never at "0". Any suggestions you could give me, my fish would appreciate.
<The water itself isn't the issue, but the fact there's too many fish, likely receiving too much food, kept in a tank with an immature filter. If I was shopping with you at Christmas, I'd have bought the tank, set it up, and the used a bacteria-culture product to jump start the biological filter. I'd then have installed a small number of suitable fish, perhaps a trio of Danios or Peppered Corydoras, two fish that tolerate the cycling process well. Water changes and nitrite tests would keep me busy, and I'd be giving the fish a small pinch of food *every other day* to avoid serious ammonia poisoning. After 2-3 of weeks, I'd expect things to be looking good on the nitrite test results, and if so, I'd add a trio more Danios or Corydoras, so I had a nice school of whichever species. And so it goes on -- picking small, hardy species appropriate to my aquarium.>
Do you think it could be the Bio-Wheels?
<They're not mature yet, so give them a chance.>
Could it be that this tank was previously used for saltwater? (it was bleached and air dried for about a year)
<Not an issue.>
The water tests "0" before adding to the tank.
<Indeed they would be. Tap water has good water quality. The tricky bit is keeping good water quality when the fish are in the tank, and that's where time and understanding come into play. There are any number of fishkeeping books out there, and your local public library or bookstore will have a range for you to read. Do read some of the "101" articles we have here, such as this nice primer:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm
There's no real mystery to fishkeeping, but there is a distinct way of doing things you reject at your peril!>
Would the use of a canister be helpful here?
<Not as such, no. Some fish will need to be returned though. And time... you need time...>
I do appreciate your time.
Thank you,
Dawn
<Happy to help. Welcome to the hobby, and keep reading. Cheers, Neale.>

Ammonia in Tap Water 1/26/08
Hi I have searched your site for a answer to my ammonia problem but haven't found an answer.
<I assure you, it is here.>
I have a seventy five gal with two filters a BioWheel, and AquaClear with 8 discus I have Mardel ammonia as well as liquid test kits. Ammonia level is at caution I do and have been doing 50-90% water changes with no results stumbled upon your site and saw that maybe it would be in the tap, <Yes> had already did a 90% change and then read to check the tap my tap after the 20 min. wait was 1.5 how can I remedy this as I don't want to leave the fish in 10% of the water for too long feel the ammo would get to the fish quicker please help?
<You have chloramine in your water. Read the link below along with related FAQ’s. Do look into Kordon's Amquel. Storing and aerating the water for a week or more will do the trick also. Good luck, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm
 

FW, ammonia, Molly size Qs   11/28/2007
Hi-
<Howdy>
I am a beginning aquarist. I bought 1 platy and 2 mollies (Silver and Dalmatian) to start my 10gallon tank. I didn’t have an ammonia test at the time (stupid I realize now) and the mollies quickly developed ich and died.
The platy is still alive. I decided that I would just keep the platy for now, wait a month, or until the cycle begins and then gradually add more fish. My sister in effort to be nice to me bought me 1 HYPERLINK
"http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1055" Black Lyretail Molly, 1 Creamcicle Lyretail Molly, 2 Zebra Danios and a sail as a surprise for me. I wasn’t ready for that many fish- but now I have them. I have read many times that zebra danios are to be kept in groups of 5 or more. Should I buy more Zebras?
Would that be overcrowding my tank?
<I would hold off on adding more Danios... As you state... it's getting crowded, and your livebearers may well have babies>
Also, how big do the Creamcicle and Black Lyretail Mollies get?
<In such a small tank... likely about two inches in length. In larger systems, about twice this>
I have been reading a lot of websites and it seems that everyone has a different answer (especially with the Creamcicle one).
<You can look up the names under the word: Mollienesia... the genus... and see that various species, likely sphenops in this case, do grow to larger sizes in bigger settings>
I have decided to do frequent water changes to counteract the huge ammonia spike. Is this the right thing to do?
<Is one way to go... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwn2cycfaqs.htm
and the linked files above.>
Help!
Sincerely,
Bea
<Bob Fenner>

Re: My story and questions... Arowanas, CITES & Ammonia   11/22/07
Neale,
<Andy,>
Thank you very much for the quick reply. That's what I really like about you guys. Quick and straight forward. Some people may take your advice the wrong way, but you're just being honest and I take it as constructive
criticism.
<Good oh.>
Your reply really gave me a wake up call. I should really stop bringing home fish that attract me from the LFS and start planning a goal for the tank.
<Exactly.>
That's not something many others would say.
<Perhaps not.>
I always had the mentally of aggressive fish with other aggressive fish would be a balance but I guess not.
<Doesn't work like that.>
I will be trying to find good homes for my fellow friends since I am not
capable of providing tanks for all the different individuals. I really hate to
see them go, but it must be done.
<Quite possibly.>
Just a few more quick questions, and I'll try to stay out of your hair as much as possible. As of current, do you know if/are freshwater stingrays and Asian Arowanas still illegal in CA/USA. I'm getting contradicting information on this issue and can't find it in Department of Fish and Game web site.
<They are NOT legal in the United States. The situation is this: Scleropages species (Asian arowanas) are listed on the CITES appendix 1. This allows for trade only if the animal in question is captive-bred or otherwise certified to not be reducing wild populations by its sale. So in Europe, you certainly can buy Asian arowanas. It costs thousands of dollars, and there's paperwork to sign and electronic chips in the fish, but there is at least a trade in captive-bred fish. In the US, Scleropages are further controlled by the Endangered Species Act in addition to CITES, and this prohibits any sale of any listed species regardless of whether captive-bred or wild-caught. Until such time as the ESA is amended to exclude captive-bred specimens of listed species, Asian arowanas will not be legal within the United States. You can read an FAQ on the topic of pets here: http://www.fws.gov/international/permits/pets.html and specifically on Scleropages here: http://www.fws.gov/permits/faqs/FaqB.shtml#bonytongue >
As for the 170 gallon tank, does one Jardini or Flowerhorn and a Scarlet Pleco
(L-25 Pseudacanthicus sp.) sound reasonable to you?
<Sounds fine. If you find this works and all your fish are happy, you might well be able to add another catfish, just not a Plec. Arowana tend to be more tolerant of bottom dwellers than midwater or upper-level fish. In any event, start with a few fish, see how things work in terms of nitrates and social behaviour, and then act accordingly.>
As for the 55er, what's my best way to correct the circulation issue. Due to it being a concealed tank with pre-cut slots on the top, I am unable to add another hang on filter or external power filter. Should I just modify the Emperor 400 with extended
intake tubes to the side corners?
<I'd simply add two or three marine aquarium powerheads. There are some nice units with magnetic holders so you can attach them wherever you want in the tank. A friend of mine has some of these called 'Hydor Koralia' in her reef tank and they seem to work very well.>
I suppose internal power filters or wavemakers/water pumps might work, but are very distracting when viewing the tank.
Another step would be to do some cutting/drilling work, but I want to leave that as a last resort due to the disturbance it would do to the tank.
<Indeed.>
What's your recommendation here?
<If all else fails, add another canister filter. No single addition to your hardware will have so many benefits: water quality, aeration, circulation, and current for fish to swim into. Powerheads and airstones make viable alternatives, but they don't improve filtration.>
Another question is for human ingestion of ammonia
in drinking water. Reading many FAQ's from WWM crew (mainly BF) dislikes the
idea of ammonia in our tap water.
<Ammonia is toxic and we certainly don't need to consume it, and adding it to aquaria is obviously A Bad Thing. On the other hand, as with everything, it's the dose that matters. Trace amounts won't do humans any harm.>
Yet, recently I received another e-mail from my water company stating, "There are no current standards for California for Ammonia.
Health Implications
Ingestion of large doses of ammonium chloride has been shown to cause headache, nausea, diarrhea and failure in glucose tolerance. However, ammonia is not an immediate health concern, and there appears to be little risk to humans from the ingestion of ammonia in drinking water. There is no evidence that ammonia is carcinogenic. However, ammonia is a source of nitrates and may compromise disinfection efficiency and filter performance. Ammonia is not currently regulated by USEPA. Canada has no guideline for ammonia. WHO has a non-health-based guideline based on avoiding consumer complaints."
<Standard answer really. What they're saying is since there's no provable connection between low ammonia concentration and health problems, they aren't going to get sued, and so aren't bothered either way. Given the other problems California has to deal with in terms of water (i.e., actually getting enough to serve the population) I'm certainly sympathetic to them not sweating over the small stuff.>
From what I get of this, our water if fine for ingestion? What do you think?
<I'm not a doctor (well, I am, a PhD, but what I mean is I'm not an MD!) so I can't really give advice here beyond saying ammonia isn't a good thing to have in water at least from a fishkeeper's perspective. Ammonia is definitely toxic to fish and has been comprehensively proven to be so in laboratory conditions. Even as little as 0.5 mg/l causes death in some species and weakens others to the extent of reducing resistance to diseases such as Finrot. On the other hand, if you have human health worries about your water supply, that's something to discuss with a medical practitioner rather than an aquarist!>
Welp that's it for now. Thanks a lot for your time. Reply is greatly
appreciated. Andy.
<I hope this helps, Neale.>

Ammonia test strip question - 11/20/07
Hi Crew,
<Leah,>
I saw one white spot on the tail of one clown loach. Unable to decide if it was ich, I decided to be proactive and treat with Rid-Ich+. The spot was gone within 24 hours, and no other fish developed any other spots, and no one seemed itchy or otherwise uncomfortable. I began to wonder if the original spot had been ich at all, but I intended to treat for a week to be safe. I removed my carbon filter, did a daily 25% water change and used a half dose of Rid-Ich+, although I later read conflicting reports online over whether half doses are effective.
<Depends. Sometimes half-doses work acceptably well, without putting sensitive fish at risk. More often though, the salt plus heat method works better and more safely for treating Ick on Clown loaches, Mormyridae, etc.>
I treated through day 5. Today was supposed to be day 6 of treatment, but I noticed that my Mardel ammonia test strip had gone from plain yellow (0.0 ammonia) to a kind of off-yellow. It's hard to describe, and it does not match any of the other colors on the test strip, which grow from pale green to dark blue-green. It looks for all the world as if the Rid-Ich+ has slightly stained the test strip. Is this likely?
<Certainly possible. If the nitrite level is zero, I'd assume that's the problem here. If the nitrite isn't zero, then perhaps there's something else going on.>
How reliable are these strips, compared to other kinds of tests? After 5 days of half doses of Rid-Ich+, do you think I've harmed my good bacteria?
<No.>
This morning I did a 40% water change with dechlorinated water, and no meds. I also replaced my carbon filter. When I return
home this afternoon, I will put in a new ammonia test strip and see if it stays yellow. (I'm waiting until the afternoon because I don't want any remaining meds to stain the new one.) Do you think I should take any other actions?
<Not really, no.>
I have an ammonia locking agent, and something called stress-zyme that is supposed to help replace good bacteria.
<You shouldn't need either of these things in a stable aquarium. Traces of ammonia in your tap water should be removed by any decent dechlorinator, and the ammonia produced by your fish gets used by the filter bacteria. Bacteria supplements are, in my opinion, more about selling stuff to hobbyists that actually doing anything useful.>
Unfortunately I will be unable to observe the tank again until the
afternoon, but I can check my email and drop by the pet store on the
way home if you recommend buying a different test kit.
Thank you very much,
Leah
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Fresh 50 Gal Ammonia Problem - 10/07/2007
Hello,
First off, I've been using your site for reference and it's awesome, very informative! Okay enough with the flattering. I have a 50 gallon, freshwater setup, two filters, one of them a dual filter, aerating blocks in the bottom, and river rock as a substrate, as well as artificial plants and plenty of hiding for my fish. I set up the tank about a week and a half ago. My first mistake, was buying three cichlids to help with the biological balancing, and a beta. The cichlids are killing my beta, so I have removed him and placed him in quarantine, where he seems to be doing quite well.
<Mixing Anabantids (gouramis, Bettas, etc.) and Cichlids is almost always a bad idea unless you know a specific combination will work. They're too similar in some ways (shape, territoriality) yet asymmetrical in others (labyrinth fish are less aggressive and have not such strong fighters). There are some exceptions: angels and lace gouramis for example make a superb combination. But otherwise, best kept separately.>
Anyhow, all my levels in my tank are where they should be, with the exception of the ammonia.
<Assuming it isn't an inorganic source (i.e., from the tap water) then your filter isn't working adequately for the task you've set it.>
I bought a PSI test kit that has tests for everything, it seems fairly reliable. The ammonia is staying consistently at 1.0. I have added three doses of Ammo-Lock as instructed on the bottle, and of course it's still testing positive because it's only converting ammonia rather then removing it.
<Hmm... not sure it works like this. Ammo-Lock and similar products are for dealing with inorganic ammonia sources. To confirm this, draw some water from the tap and then do an ammonia test. If the ammonia is in the water, your test kit will register it. If there's no ammonia, try again, but this time add your dechlorinator. If your water has chloramine, but your dechlorinator doesn't neutralize chloramine, then ammonia will suddenly appear seemingly out of nowhere. It's actually come from the breakdown of chloramine by the dechlorinator into chlorine and ammonia. If both these tests are negative, then you don't have an inorganic ammonia source. The only remaining explanation is ammonia from organic, i.e., the fish, decaying food, etc. In this case, Ammo-Lock won't make a blind bit of difference and you need to scale up your biological filtration. As a broad rule, community tropicals need a filter with turnover 4 times the volume of the tank per hour; i.e., a 20 gallon tank needs a filter with turnover of 20 x 4 = 80 gallons per hour. For cichlids and catfish such as plecs, go for 6x the volume of the tank, since these sorts of fish are bigger and messier. Marine aquarists typically use turnover levels as high as 10x the volume of the tank.>
My fish seem to be doing okay, the cichlids are lively, eating well, and don't seem sick, but I know the ammonia levels should be at zero.
<Chronic ammonia tends not to kill hardy cichlids outright, but what it does do is make them much more sensitive to Hole-in-the-Head, something that takes months to become obvious to the fishkeeper, by which time it is very difficult to treat. Sensitive cichlids (Apistogramma, discus, Tanganyikans, etc.) can be killed quite quickly by even fairly low ammonia concentrations.>
I've done a 50% water change as well, and really don't know what else to do. I'd like to keep stocking my tank (the cichlids will be moving out, too aggressive, going with a peaceful community.) I really haven't a clue about getting this ammonia reading down to zero, and don't want to add fish until I know it's safe.
<As I say, first establish if the ammonia is coming with your tap water, or whether it comes from the aquarium. Once you have the answer to this, you can act accordingly. If the ammonia comes with the water, then treating with ammonia-removing dechlorinator should work (try different brands, some are better than others). If the ammonia isn't in the water, but comes from the fish, then either removing some fish or increasing filtration will be the two easiest way forwards. You might also check the filter is working properly as well. If it's terribly bunged-up or the air pump needs a new diaphragm, then remedial action might do the trick.>
I'm sorry if these questions were redundant, I did some searching and
thought perhaps you'd have something more specific to my situation. Thanks
for your time.
<Hope this helps.>
Desiree
<Cheers, Neale>

New Tank Problems Debating the Next Step... FW... mis-mix, new tank, ammonia...    9/9/07
Hello. I've done quite a bit of research in these last two weeks and have found your site to be the most informative and hopefully helpful. Our situation is probably not an uncommon one, but knowing that doesn't make it any less stressful. Two weeks ago my husband decided to invest major money in a 20 gallon aquarium. Of course since he had kept a few goldfish alive in a small tank years ago, he thought he knew what he was doing. I tried to research, but he didn't give me any time. He bought the tank and set it up on a Saturday night. He wanted to get fish 24 hours later and I tried to convince him to wait but the most he would wait was 48 hours.
<Mmmm, hmm>
During that time I researched the fish he wanted to get and found out that they were cichlids who would need a larger tank or to be an only child virtually. This did not jive with his idea of a tank full of pretty fish so without consulting me he decided to change to buying what he thought would be smaller more peaceful fish, and he bought 9! Mistake number one over stocked tank. Mistake number two, too many fish introduced at once.
Mistake number 3 fish that didn't necessarily go together,
<Yikes!>
2 Kissing Gouramis, 2 Tiger Barbs (which I discovered need to be in a larger group to get along well and not stress out each other or others) 2 Silver Dollars, 1 Bala Shark, 1 Albino Rainbow Shark and 1 Silver Tip catfish.
<Some mix now! The last fish isn't even freshwater...>
We then proceeded to Mistake number 4 overfeeding, he fed them everyday and probably more than he should have. Mistake number 5 was probably the wrong testing kit. Although he wouldn't listen to me and anything I found out on the web, he completely believed the LFS people. They sold him a little testing strip kit,
<Notoriously inaccurate, imprecise>
and although we read about the nitrogen cycle in the tank info, and knew we had to test for ammonia, since ammonia wasn't listed on the test strip we assumed that the PH and ammonia must be the same thing. Not once did the LFS people mention ammonia or testing for it.
<Dismal>
For several days the fish seemed okay, and according to the little strip nitrate and nitrite were okay and PH was 6.5. We did do a small water change and added the conditioner again on day 4 and all was fine. Then we began to notice the one Tiger Barb constantly bullying the other to the point of him hiding and shaking. The gouramis also seemed occasionally stressed by this fast aggressive little guy. Finally we started seeing little white spots on the gouramis and dollars and the more aggressive barb started floating funny so we removed him for a day or so and treated him with Melafix,
<...>
which perked him right up. I researched the spots and discovered it was ICH so we bought copper safe
<!>
and dosed the tank once but had to remove the filter so that the medication would absorb. During the removal of filter for the first time it ripped. Have you noticed I've stopped counting mistakes at this point.
<Yes... and I must commend you... for being so level-headed and such a good recounting>
The white spots did seem to fall off the fish but in my reading I knew that we needed to continue to treat the new water we added for up to a month and to raise the temp to 82 to shorten the cycle of the ICH and catch it at it's most vulnerable. Since we were treating the ICH and Mr. Barb seemed better we added him back to tank.
The next day though (this is by now day 8) we noticed the water started getting murky.
<Cycling...>
We weren't sure if it was the treatment we added or no filter to keep things moving or the natural cycling process. We then noticed the fish sitting on the bottom from time to time not moving much.
However the apparently ineffectual little strips we had from the pet store kept telling us that the nitrate and nitrite were zero and the PH was in normal 6.5 range. We did a small water change and decided to not add any more CopperSafe just in case that was the problem.
<Has to be tested for (copper) to prevent poisoning from overexposure>
We also added the filter back but had to replace the pad that had ripped (Mistake Number ???) because there went any good ammonia eating bacteria we might have accumulated. At this point my husband actually started asking me to see if I could find out what was wrong.
<Yay!>
Apparently research could have a use after all. The fish were starting to gasp, alternating between laying on the bottom and hovering under the surface. With some more research I found from some helpful people that the ammonia was probably our biggest problem. ICH could be worried about later but the ammonia would kill our fish quick. This person finally informed us that the PH and ammonia are NOT the same thing and we needed a separate kit, all of $5.00. We bought this kit the evening of day 11 and found our ammonia was halfway up the chart on 1 By this time our fish were really gasping, even our catfish and Bala were swimming funny when they had seemed the least affected. On this site I found a recommendation to do a huge water change so my husband did that and also siphoned some of the gravel as he had just bought a siphon for the first time as well. That's when he could really see the amount of waste and food that was contributing to our ammonia. He also added AmmoLock to the water as well as the conditioner this time.
The fish perked up a little, but within a few hours were listless again.
However it was late at night and I was gone out of the house, so he didn't do another check like I would have suggested. When I got home at midnight I thought I would ask him about it in the morning and he would tell me he had done another check, and then I would have him do another water change.
However, when I woke up he had gone to play golf. I also discovered one of the fish was missing, which, when he returned from golf he told me was due to a power outage we had in the middle of the night. He things the albino made his way near the filter when it was turned off and somehow got out of the top because he was on the floor this morning.
With him gone and no information I did a test myself and found ammonia still at .50, and the fish were gasping, so I did a 30 percent change adding the conditioner and AmmoLock. Two hours later they weren't looking any better.
Ammonia still said .50 so I attempted a 50 percent change. Then he came home. I told him that I had done a 50 percent change but he thought I meant that morning, so about 2 hours later, while I was gone, he did a 50 percent change. I think all of this change and the ammonia finally drove the fish over the edge, because within 2 hours of this last change, the 2 dollars, the Bala, the catfish, and one Barb all lost the fight.
The 2 gouramis and remaining barb didn't look so well either so he removed them for awhile and decided to do another big water r change, still with the AmmoLock and conditioner, and clean the gravel really well. He then waited and checked the ammonia and it was down to .25. I did finally buy a separate nitrite kit so will test that too instead of believing the zero the little strip test tells me.
So now for the questions.............
Do we put the 2 gouramis and one barb back (even though they are iffy)?
<Mmm, can... I would... along with a fresh pack of a product called BioSpira...>
Do we try to continue to cycle with this tank as is if even one fish makes it and then let it go for a good solid 6 weeks before we even think about adding another fish as we should have done originally?
<Likely a good routine>
If all fish die do we put a new fish in immediately to keep the tank cycling or do we not subject any fish to this crazy toxic tank and clean it our and start fresh?
<Perhaps the latter would/will be best for peace of mind>
Thank you for reading this novel. This aquarium was not my choice, and if it had been or if I had been able to have any input, I would have thoroughly prepared ahead of time and hopefully sidestepped most of these mistakes.
But either way, I can't stand to see a living creature suffering and I really don't want to waste such a huge investment financially and emotionally. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Rea
<Your husband... and the aquatic livestock in both your care is indeed fortunate to have someone as yourself... Intelligent, curious and caring... to look out for their welfare. Unfortunately by the time you discovered the ammonia issue (to be expected) in this small, crowded, ich-infested, mis-stocked mess... doing water changes to dilute the metabolite also forestalled/forestalls the establishment of cycling... Do please keep reading, culturing that husband... and put together a more sustainable mix going forward. Bob Fenner>

Ammonia levels 9/6/07
Hi guys/girls,
<I'm a guy,>
I wrote about 3wks ago...thanks for your advice! So when I previously wrote, my ph had crashed and I found my water cloudy white and foamy. Got the ph problem solved. Now I can't seem to get the ammonia levels down, ever since I wrote last. It's very high, been using Ammo lock, but can't get it down.
<Ammo Lock doesn't make ammonia go away. All it does is remove ammonia from water *out of the tap* that contains small amounts. To manage ammonia in the aquarium, where it is constantly being produced by the fish and other animals, you need a biological filter OR a chemical filter (Zeolite).>
I've had the tank around 6-7 weeks. It's just a small 6gal and I have just two tiny fish; an Endler's and Otocinclus; perhaps the tank's still not fully cycled.
<Indeed not.>
Just strange since there's only two of them in there.
<Not really all that strange.>
I was doing 20% water changes every 2-3 days. Since the ammonia's high, I suppose I should do a change every day?
<I would. Otocinclus are EXTREMELY sensitive to ammonia and nitrite, so I wouldn't be placing much money on that fish lasting long.>
I've also been vacuuming the substrate 1x/wk.
<Largely redundant. But if it makes you feel better, sure.>
Question about my substrate, I have sand, maybe coral sand (around 2 1/2 inches deep.) Don't ask me why I have sand.
<Nothing wrong with sand. I use it myself. But there's a big difference between silica sand and coral sand. Silica (or silver) sand is chemically inert. Coral sand is calcareous and raises the pH and hardness. While your Endler's guppy won't care either way, your Otocinclus will, being a native of quite soft/acid water conditions.>
Bought it on suggestion of LFS, wasn't aware of what substrate to buy :( From what I read, seems that gravel is a better bet for freshwater? If yes, why so?
<Not better/worse -- difference. On the plus side, silica sand at least doesn't affect the water chemistry, fish like digging into it, and plants root readily in it and seem to like growing in it, possibly because of the dysaerobic conditions that develop a few cm below the surface. On the downside, big fish make a mess swishing it into the filter, and organic material can decay anaerobically under deep beds of sand, releasing toxic gases. Never seen this myself, but on paper at least, its possible if you don't take precautions. Gravel has some pluses and minuses itself. The good: it is cheap and only big fish can move it around. The bad: its boring and burrowing fish hate it, to the point where they can damage themselves trying to dig into it. Plants aren't wild about it either, unless it's backed up with something more nutritious, like laterite. Now, coral sand is whole different kettle of fish. Coral sand is used exclusively in freshwater tanks where plants *aren't* grown but hard water/brackish water fish *are* being kept. It's the standard substrate for Malawi and Tanganyika cichlid aquaria for example. Standard tropical fish (tetras, gouramis, etc) don't like it though, because it raises the pH and hardness.>
I also feel like I'm not getting enough of the waste sucked up when I vacuum, and perhaps that's leading to the high ammonia levels?
<No, not much stuff gets into the substrate, and even if it did, it would make a difference. The ammonia is related to how much protein (in food) you put in the tank. Where that protein decays in the gravel or the filter or a fish makes no odds. Nitrogen is nitrogen is nitrogen.>
Would you suggest switching to regular gravel?
<If you have coral sand, yes; if inert silica sand or similar, not unless you want to.>
If not needed, I'd rather not. The Oto seems to get stressed very easy, so I'd rather not take him out of the tank if possible.
<He's a schooling fish, and is nervous because he's frightened. Within the next month (which should be long enough for your filter to finish maturing) buy 2 more Otocinclus!>
Any advice is very appreciated...thanks!!!
Vanessa
<Hope this helps, Neale>

Re: Ammonia levels 9/6/07
Got your reply Neale, thanks so much. What I meant about the Ammo lock is, I'm using it in conjunction with water changes, but yes definitely it won't remove the ammonia. Will do another change today.
<Good.>
More questions about my sand. I'll have to find out from LFS what kind of sand it is exactly, before I decide if I should switch. I read on your site the following about sand: "My suggestion for fine sands is to use an inch or less (aesthetic and prevents nutrient accumulation, but supports less life) or a minimum of 3-4" (some risk of nutrient accumulation, but supports more life that better processes these nutrients, also better denitrification). In either case, I would avoid any stirring or major disturbance of fine grained substrates. Such action can cause major disturbances in water quality." So, when I read that, I assumed my vacuuming and stirring was causing the ammonia spikes from waste; changing water quality.
<Possibly, but it's important to realise the ammonia comes from the protein you put in the tank. At the end of the day, whether the aquarium is completely empty or filled with plants, fish, sand, and corals is neither here nor there. 10 grammes of protein will make the same amount of ammonia, regardless. It might take longer for the protein to decay into ammonia in an "empty" tank than a busy one where it's metabolised by the animals, but the amount of ammonia produced will be the same.>
And about the following, did you mean it would 'not' make a difference? Just confused.
<Yes.>
Lastly, you mentioned 'organic material can decay releasing toxic gases. Never seen this myself, but on paper at least, its possible if you don't take precautions.' Being the sand is 2 1/2", perhaps I should make it around an inch instead, to prevent more accumulation? Sorry for being naive about this. As for precautions, was thinking of getting some waste reducer; not sure if this is suffice.
<I'm assuming you're reading the above from sometime on marine tanks, since denitrification isn't a big deal in freshwater aquaria. Anyway, in a freshwater tank there are three ways to keep sand "safe". Firstly, you use burrowing fish, like loaches, Corydoras, earth eating cichlids. These dig through the sand and remove bits of food and also turn the sand over, keeping it aerated. The second thing you can do is install lots of plants. Plant roots transport oxygen into the sand, and in doing so, prevent anaerobic decay. If you've ever looked at the mud at the bottom of a pond, it's quite gooey and black because of the lack of oxygen. This anoxic state makes the mineral ions more available to the plants. To live there, the plant roots carry oxygen down with them, sort of like a breathing tube. Some of this oxygen escapes, and aerates the mud. We can use this in fish tanks. Finally, you can add Malayan livebearing snails. These fantastic little creatures burrow through the substrate, eating up every scrap of decaying material, and also aerate the sand, like earthworms on land. I *always* use these snails in my tanks. They're totally harmless to plants.>
Thanks again for all your help. Your website's great!!
Vanessa
<Hope this helps, Neale>

Ammonia in aged water, FW  9/5/07
This one really has me stumped.
My mother set up a 30 gal tank 3-4 wks ago and added a 2" fantail goldfish. He's doing fine. I didn't know any of this until recently when she mentioned it. Out of curiosity I tested her water since I
had the test kits. Her ammonia (right after a 20% water change was .5, nitrites about 1 and nitrates 10 (yes, still cycling, I know).
She lets the water sit for a few days in a tub before doing water changes (25% a week). She has well water (same as I do) but is in another town, there's no added chlorine or anything else as far
as I know. The PH straight out of the tap is 7.2 and O ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. The fish tank water has a PH of 7.8. From reading your sight that tells me it's a *good thing to let it sit because
of the dissolved oxygen, etc. But-the problem is the aged water has an ammonia level of .5.
<Unusual... I would check your test kit here first>
That doesn't make any sense to me and I didn't have a good answer for her as to why. We tested the
tap and it was zero ammonia, then let a 5 gal bucket of water sit for an hour with a bubbler in it and tested it. The ammonia was already .5 in the bucket water and it had only sat for an hour!
I understand there's toxic and non-toxic ammonia?
<Mmm, yes... ammonia/ammonium (NH4/NH4OH) at higher pHs is much more toxic than lower pH ammonia, NH3>
Do you think that's where the confusion lies? Is my test kit (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit) be reading the total
ammonia including the non-toxic?
<Yes and no... the state of the ammonia at this high pH is the more toxic>
This is confusing. Or is her aged water somehow getting ammonia in it by sitting?
<From? A kitty litter box nearby? I hope you two have your water checked, certified for human consumption... I would NOT consume water with 10 ppm of NO3...>
It was brand new bucket used only for water that we let it sit in.
I hope you can help. Is she adding ammonia to her fish tank with every water change? The little goldfish looks great and the water is super clear if that makes a difference.
Thank you for your time. I hope you can shed some light on why aged water would all of a sudden have ammonia when the water straight out of the tap doesn't.
Mitzi
<I suspect the readings are spurious. I'd check the checker. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ammonia in aged water-possibly algae in well water  9/7/07
Hello Crew (Bob),
Concerning the ammonia readings in aged water (but not fresh from tap over at my mother's house). I did buy 2 more test kits and those kits showed the identical results as my original liquid
test kit.
<I see. Thank you>
So I made some calls and did some thinking. I'm going to update you in the hopes that it may help someone else with well water.
I believe the reason for the ammonia reading in only the aged water (not fresh tap water) was because my mother had algae in her well/well water.
<This could do it, yes>
Possibly because of major flooding here in
Oklahoma the past 6 months. The water straight out of her tap showed '0' ammonia, yet when the water sat for an hour or more the ammonia started rising. I believe it was because the algae
particles from the well started dying as soon as it came through the pipes and sat in a container and caused the ammonia. Does that make sense?
<It does>
It made perfect sense to me. We poured a
bottle of Clorox bleach down her well the other day. Evidently that's not an uncommon practice amongst well owners (who'd have known?).
<Is a good move>
The man at the water dept said the bleach should
dissipate within 24 hrs or so. I went over to her house today and tested a bucket of water she'd had sitting out for several hours. There was '0' ammonia! Great news! So I think that solved the problem. I'd have never thought of something like that and I wonder how many other fish keepers using well water have trouble cycling their tanks for the same reason. She was pouring in water with ammonia in it. Keep in mind the ammonia only showed in her aged water, not straight from the tap. It really had me stumped and I'm so glad to have figured it out, so it seems.
Does chlorine actually dissipate after about 24 hours?
<Most types of sodium hypochlorite, yes... there are other versions, and additives that make some "bleach" last longer in a bottle..>
I'd like to make sure from you. I bought her some Kordon's NovAqua+ to use with any water changes until I find out for sure that chlorine
dissipates quickly.
<Also a good idea>
Interesting update and I really hope it helps someone else.
Mitzi
<Thank you for sharing. You've no doubt saved many people grief... and livestock! Bob Fenner>

Ammonia problems! Five gallon, goldfish...  – 08/31/07
Hi!
<<Hi, Danielle. (My daughter’s name by the way.) Tom here.>>
First off, I want to say that this is a great site!
<<Thanks, Danielle. Glad you like it!>>
We bought a 5 gallon mini bow tank back in May from the LFS. Picked up 2 gold fish and a little frog.
<<Danielle, I can’t begin to tell you how much too small a five-gallon tank is for ANY Goldfish. 25-30 gallons is more appropriate for the fancy varieties and figure 50+ gallons for Commons, Comets, and Shubunkins. (Now, after you’ve caught your breath, picked yourself up off the floor and stopped disparaging the parents of the individual that allowed you to buy Goldfish for a five-gallon container, we can get to the details.)>>
Everyone was great for about a week and then the fish started dying.
<<Not unexpected though I’m sorry to hear this.>>
Took a water sample to the LFS and they said to do a 50% water change, that the ammonia was high (2.5), but the nitrates and nitrites were 0.
<<Not that your fish stood a chance, Danielle, but a 95%-100% change would have been my recommendation…daily. The tank hadn’t ‘cycled’.>>
Bought my own test kit and kept an eye on all readings.
<<Excellent.>>
After 4 more fish died, I realized that my LFS was missing something so I did some research and learned all about cycling a tank.
<<Something the folks at the LFS apparently had never heard about?>>
Wish I would've known about that first!
<<Indeed.>>
Anyway, went to a Petco and they gave me some gravel from an established tank. I placed it evenly throughout the bottom of my tank and let it stay there for about 2 months.
<<A good move. Not optimal but still good thinking on your part.>>
Reading on 8/10 showed nitrite 2.0, nitrate 10., ammonia 1.0 and ph 6. I assumed my tank was cycled.
<<Nope.>>
We took our sons to a county fair and they won 2 goldfish. One is small about one inch and the other is about <<?>> inches. Well, I placed them in the (I thought) cycled tank. The next day I tested the water and now the readings are nitrite 0, nitrate 5., ammonia 2.0 and the ph is 7.5!
<<They won’t make it, Danielle. Even trace amounts, say 0.25 ppm of ammonia, is deadly. You can’t possibly keep Goldfish alive in a five-gallon tank. They produce too much ammonia/waste for a five-gallon tank to sustain.>>
I did a 50% water change. I'm guessing that I put in too much for the tank and that it wasn’t fully cycled.
<<Correct on both counts.>>
How can I not lose these fish?
<<Realistically? You can’t keep from losing them. (Don’t get me wrong. We’ve worked folks through worse but, the bottom line is that they had far bigger tanks.) A five-gallon tank has virtually no stability. Conditions can “go south” in a few hours with a tank this small. That said, and given the fact that you’ve written to us (which indicates to me that you care), no more fish until we work out what you need to keep your pets healthy and thriving. Okay?>>
Would doing 50% water changes daily be okay?
<<I don’t like coming off like a horse’s patootie, Danielle, but you’d need to do 100% changes perhaps three times a day to stand a chance. Beside their waste products, Goldfish (like other fish) excrete ammonia from their systems through their gills – very specialized gill filaments called lamellae. Without proper cycling for beneficial bacterial growth, room for dispersion/dilution and adequate filtration, your Goldfish might as well be living (?) in a septic tank – with about the same chance for survival.>>
Yesterday was the last time that I fed them. I read that I should wait a couple of days. Is this okay?
<<Less feeding is better given the situation, Danielle. Not “the” solution but a good idea nevertheless.>>
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!
<<Inclined to take a shot at it, Danielle? Get a large Tupperware-style storage bin, or something similar, and fill it with dechlorinated, i.e. conditioned, water. Move the fish to it. They’ll be better off than they are now and you won’t have quite as many headaches. :) Purchase an aquarium of about 30-gallons, or larger, and start the cycling process. (I’ll tell you of another ‘trick’ in a moment.) Goldfish won’t need a heater but they will need lots of filtration. Double or triple the size of the filter that the manufacturer claims it will serve. Goldfish need 7-12 water exchanges per hour. GPH is what you want to look at, not tank size. So, for a 30-gallon tank, figure on a filter that handles, minimally, 230 gph. (There’s about a 10%-15% loss from the manufacturer’s claims.) Decorate the tank as you’d like but use a dark (black?) substrate. (There’s a reason for this.) Once the tank is up and running, the ‘trick’ I suggested is BIO-Spira from Marineland. It’s somewhat pricey but you can – in fact, must – add the fish to the tank within hours to preserve the live bacteria the product contains. (Should be added to the filter chamber versus the tank.) A long-winded description that I’ll be happy to go over with you in shorter “bursts”, Danielle, but that’s what you need to do. (Save the five-gallon tank for a Betta. Wonderful size but he’ll need a heater (Hydor ‘Theo’ – 25 watts) and a sponge filter (quite inexpensive).)>>
Thanks,
Danielle
<<”Information overload”-time, Danielle. I realize this, which is why I’d like you to write back with specific questions you might have, if any. A lot to digest, certainly, but Goldfish can live for 20 years, or more, in the right environment. Best regards. Tom>>

Re: ammonia problems! (follow-up)   9/1/07
Hi Tom,
<<Hi, Danielle!>>
Thanks for the fast reply! Maybe having your daughter's name got me faster service, lol!
<<It didn’t hurt! :) >>
It would be nice if the LFS gave accurate info.
<<In a “touch” of fairness, Danielle, solving problems with fish/aquariums isn’t the main thrust of their jobs. They’re there to move merchandise, period. A shame, really.>>
After I wrote to you, I did some more reading on the site and started doing 95% water changes. I have done 2 so far in the past 4 hours. Ammonia went down to .25 but from what you've told me, I'll be doing this everyday for the rest of the goldfishes’ lives! Not fair to them and too much work for me!
<<Good to hear about the decreased ammonia levels, Danielle. As you now know, even .25 ppm can be/is deadly but it’s a far cry from 2.0! Good job and I certainly do agree that both you and your Goldfish will need relief from the water changes. A larger, cycled aquarium will do just that.>>
I actually went out and bought a 92 quart plastic tub the day the kids won them to get them home from the fair (was 3 hours from our house, didn't want them to not make the ride home). Is it okay if I keep them in there for a day or two until I can get to the store to get all my supplies?
<<Absolutely! Nearly tripling the size of the container they’re in now will help a lot. You don’t want to get lax about their care, obviously, but you’ll certainly be giving yourself and your pets a “leg up” on the situation.>>
Again, thank you so much!
Danielle
<<You’re most welcome. If you have any more issues/questions prior to making any substantial purchases, please get back to me/us. Hopefully, I’ve given you – along with the information you’ve found here at WWM – plenty to make an informed decision on how to go about this. No need for “guesswork”. The better informed you are, the less chance that someone will pass off “bum” information on you once you’re in the store. Lastly (?), if you’re in doubt about ANYTHING, don’t make the move! From here on in, informed choices/decisions are going to be the key to success in our hobby. My best to you and your family…and fish! Tom>>

Ammonia in uncycled FW tank, needs to read – 07/18/07
Hi, I think your FAQ's site is great. <Me, too.> However, I am a new fish tank owner. The tank is 29 gallons and I am looking to stock with fresh water tropical fish. The instructions that came with the tank said to add fish the first week of set up then a 1/3 the second and 1/3 the third week. So I did. Now I am down to 2 Dalmatian mollies. The ammonia levels are off the chart and the national pet store told me to use chemicals. They don't work to bring the ammonia down even a little. What do I do? I don't want the last two fish to die as well even though they have survived these conditions for 2 weeks now? Please help, the store keeps giving me bad advice.
<Do large partial water changes (up to 90% if the ammonia is high) daily to dilute the ammonia. Watch out for nitrites to appear and act accordingly. Add some old filter material or refrigerated live bacteria like BioSpira to your filter. Search WWM for cycling a tank, nitrogen cycle (e.g. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm) and mollies (e.g. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm) and their needs. Don’t add any more fishes until you tank is cycled. Cheers, Marco.>

Urgent Ammonia, FW  7/11/07
Hi, great web site and you have helped me successfully in the past, so
firstly thanks.
<<Thanks and, let’s see if we can do it again! (Tom here, by the way.)>>
I am at a loss and need your help urgently again.
<<Been there myself once or twice.>>
My 50 gallon tank finished cycling last week the levels were 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 40 Nitrates and I had finally got pH down to 7.0.
<<Nitrates, as you’re no doubt aware, are far too high but all else looks good.>>
I have a community freshwater set-up with live plants.
<<Okay.>>
I have 8 platies all pairs, 19 rasboras (mixed), 2 CAE, 1 male and 1 female (Golden), and 4 young angel fish (sex unknown). I also have 5 baby platies in a segregation tank within my community tank.
<<The CAE’s are going to become problematic as they mature, particularly where the Angels are concerned. They lose their taste for algae and develop a taste for the slime coating/flesh of other tank mates, especially slower moving, tall-bodied species like your Angelfish. Not your immediate issue, I understand, but it definitely will become one if you keep these animals. They can/will kill tank mates. Just a head’s up.>>
I had lime scale build up in my filters pipes so I expelled it into the
tank, I have done this before with no toxic fall out.
<<Not where I would have “expelled” it but shouldn’t be a problem.>>
Soon after cycling the filter failed and all the hard work seemed undone.
<<Not what you want to have happen, that’s for sure.>>
Ammonia levels spiked off my testing chart so I did filter maintenance and cleared the gravel of as much waste as possible, reduced feeding, started treating water with ammo lock and aquarium salt.
<<The salt wasn’t going to be overly beneficial in this case but water changes on a massive scale would be.>>
Did 15% water change, left 2 days retested, still high did 25% water change, left another 2 days, still high did a 50% water change retreating water as before as necessary. Still off the chart I tested my tap water which was negative for ammonia so that’s not the problem.
<<When I suggest a massive change, this is on the order of 90%+ and possibly more than once per day. “Detectable” levels of ammonia are lethal and your levels are, by your own admission, off the chart. No time for partial measures.
Fish are highly stressed but none have died yet! Levels won’t drop. I don’t know what else to do. Should I empty tank completely starting from scratch? I can’t find the cause of the ammonia spikes.
<<The ammonia isn’t “spiking” in the normal sense of the word. It simply isn’t going away because you haven’t attacked the problem vigorously enough. You can’t just let the tank sit after a big change. You need to re-test within hours. If ammonia’s detectable at that point, change the water again, BIG TIME, until levels are undetectable. Hardcore as this sounds, you won’t have a fish left otherwise.>>
I have recently had the introduction of snails in my tank ( not by choice ) currently only 3 as far as i can tell, can they be polluting the water?
<<You’ve got, as of your writing, 30+ fish in a 50-gallon tank. The snails are contributing virtually nothing compared to your other livestock. Now, I confess some confusion about your filter here. Did it temporarily quit pumping? Did it die completely? Was a new filter purchased or is the old one up and running again? What I’m getting at is that your beneficial bacteria shouldn’t have taken such a hit that your ammonia levels went ballistic if the filter media was preserved in either the old filter or after being transferred to a new filter. You could possibly have spiked a bit but not on the order that your sharing with us now. I’m surmising that a new filter was purchased and the old one tossed out, i.e. you started re-cycling from square one. The only thing that makes sense to me.>>
HELPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!
<<Regardless of what transpired filter-wise, you absolutely MUST stay on top of the water changes…fanatically! If you can, find a local LFS that carries BIO-Spira from Marineland. Addition of this product will all but instantly cycle your tank and, hopefully, save what you can of your pets. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. Best of luck. Tom>>

Re: Urgent Ammonia, FW   7/12/07
Thanks for your fast response.
<<Happy to do so, Victor. (I’ll enclose my "quotes" for readability.)>>
”Nitrates, as you’re no doubt aware, are far too high but all else looks good.”
Yes, nitrates should have been 20 or below.
<<On the money.>>
”The CAE’s are going to become problematic as they mature, particularly where the Angels are concerned.”
The CAE'S are a female and male pair who have grown to 4-5 inches since the onset of my tank and have no problems with my other fish including the angels. They are already over a year old and still not a problem; maybe I got lucky as I have read all the bad press but never experienced it to date yet.
<<Please do keep an eye on them, though.>>
”The salt wasn’t going to be overly beneficial in this case but water changes on a massive scale would be.”
I heard it aids breathing and stops pathogens that can attack when fish are stressed!
<<Easy, Victor. Your first point is correct but to a limited degree. Same with your second point. I probably would have tried just about anything, myself, under the same circumstances but I don’t want to give the rest of our readers the idea that salt is some type of “silver bullet” given the situation you were/are faced with. No criticism here whatsoever and I apologize if it was construed as such.>>
”The ammonia isn’t “spiking” in the normal sense of the word. It simply isn’t going away because you haven’t attacked the problem vigorously enough.”
Last water change was 75% this morning and I manually removed all snails I could see.
<<More on a par with what I’d like to see you going after. Good job! Now, increase it to 90%+.>>
”You’ve got, as of your writing, 30+ fish in a 50-gallon tank. The snails are contributing virtually nothing compared to your other livestock.”
Yes, but the angels are young/small and I intend to rehome one/two of them as they get bigger. Rasboras don’t take much mid-tank space and platies don’t grow too big (although I will be rehoming at least two - four soon as a neighbour is getting a tank and will probably take the baby platies as well) with the CAE'S taking the bottom of the tank between themselves.
<<Not an issue of stocking, per se, Victor. It’s the collective contribution of ammonia to your system that I was referring to. Each and every one of your fish is adding ammonia regularly. Some fish will rid their systems of ammonia through “waste” while others actually expel ammonia from their systems via specialized cells in their gills. Regardless of the means, your system’s getting inundated by sheer numbers alone.>>
”I confess some confusion about your filter here.”
The filter seemed to stop pumping so I assumed it got blocked maybe from the lime scale discharging, so I did normal filter maintenance as in any trouble shooting guide and it began working AGAIN, however this did involve losing some of the beneficial bacteria medium in there!!!!
<<Glad to hear that you saved the expense of a new filter but you lost more than “some” of the bacteria. Sounds like you lost almost all of your bio-colonies. Quick point here. If you rinsed your media in tap water, don’t. Always rinse in used tank water to protect the colonies. Losses will be minimal.>>
”If you can, find a local LFS that carries BIO-Spira from Marineland.”
Thanks, will do ASAP. Since last water change ammonia has dropped to between 6.0 - 8.0 !!!!!
<<Then, do another water change and another and another.>>
But, at least it’s coming down. What do I do next? ARRRRRRRRRRG.
<<”Broken record” time but stay the course with massive water changes. In a brutal nutshell, if you sucked your tank dry and left your fish flopping in the substrate, they wouldn’t be in any worse danger than they are now. It’s that plain and simple.>>
I can’t believe at those levels my fish are still alive!
<<Nor can I, frankly.>>
I have not lost any fish nor do I intend to. Seeing my fish gasping at the top and losing their appetites is not a good sign though. Is a 95% water change my next step?
<<Absolutely! Test your water afterward and, if you get a reading of ammonia, do another 95% change.>>
I was reluctant to do a major change from get-go because I did not want to raise my pH levels again as I researched that makes ammonia worse.
<<Good for you for researching! (To clarify for everyone reading this, “ammonia” exists in two forms that we hobbyists are concerned with. Ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4). At lower pH levels, ammonia takes the form of NH4 (ammonium), which is less toxic to fish. As pH rises, it converts to NH3 (ammonia), which is lethal to fish.) Your concerns are understandable, Victor, but we’re already up to our “behinds” in alligators, if you see what I mean, and a big one has us in his teeth!>>
No fish are showing external signs of ammonia poisoning yet. Let’s hope with your advice we can nip this in the bud before I do!!!!!
<<If the fish are gasping at the surface and losing their appetites, they’re showing signs. No time for “half measures”.>>
Thanks in advance
Victor
<<You’re welcome and I want to hear back from you, Victor. Tom>>

Re: Urgent Ammonia, FW   7/12/07
<<Hello, Victor.>>
Wow , what a roller coaster ride!
<<I can only imagine!>>
I did a 90% water change before waiting for your reply & tested the water after, the results were 4.0 at last.
<<Funny hobby, ain’t it? We’re pleased with this, in its specific context, and yet folks are panicky (rightly so) if their water tests at 0.25 ppm ammonia.>>
Fish did not seem happy though so I watched for a while , was not impressed so another change (90%). However, both these times I dispensed with the ammo lock, water conditioner, aquarium salt and another test revealed 2.0 we are on our way :).
<<Here I would not dispense with the water conditioner, Vic. You mentioned that your tap water tests 0 for ammonia but any chlorine must be dealt with. Best to add the conditioner. It won’t hurt and will undoubtedly help.>>
Will leave till morning & continue your aggressive water changes till near to normal and then treat as would with usual water conditioners.
<<In something of an ironic twist, you will reach a point where “some” ammonia, over a very short term, will be of some assistance in getting the bio-colonies re-established. We can’t starve them completely or they won’t populate the tank/filter media adequately to reach a state of equilibrium with the bio-load. The bacteria will, ultimately, take care of any trace ammonia.>>
Fingers crossed no dead fish and after I get the BIO-Spira from Marineland, a cycled tank at last & yes, I will keep you posted with pictures if you like :).
<<I would, indeed. Not out of the woods yet but it’s sounding a lot better. Only time, and good care, will tell how much “damage” was done.>>
Many thanks & hope I did not sound too defensive in my last post. All your advice is taken with appreciation.
<<Understood and taken as such, Vic. Thank you. Keep up the good work!>>
Vic/
<<Tom>>

Re: URGENT AMMONIA- Update!   7/13/07
Hi Tom,
<<Hello, Vic. How goes it?>>
Just got your last reply :)
<<Good.>>
Been doing water changes 80-90% every four hours and on my last change I re-added the water conditioners and ammo lock as the reading was holding steady at 1.0 for ammonia.
<<We’re seeing daylight, Vic!>>
The reason I excluded the conditioner before was because I was changing the water so often it seemed pointless putting it in at that point.
<<Understood but the conditioner eliminates chlorine almost instantly. Stick with it.>>
Oh, just in case you missed it ammonia reads 1.0 & holding (yippee!!)
<<No, Vic, I didn’t miss it and, I’m happy for you!>>
Should I continue water changes and, if so, at what level now?
<<Back off to 50%, Vic. Let’s let Nature kick in here a bit. The beneficial colonies need to feed in order to populate the tank. Keep the tests up, though. You’ll be “flying blind” without them.>>
I have also purchased some live bacterial matter from my local centre and am adding that straight into the filter.
<<Excellent. Every little bit…>>
So far things seem to be on the mend. Anything else you think I should consider at this point?
<<Yes. Here is the spot where you should consider going back to the use of aquarium salt. Go easily with this and don’t consider it long-term maintenance. Just until we get you back to 0 ppm Ammonia. Aeration is also going to be very important. Your fish and the beneficial bacteria both need this.>>
I will keep you posted & am very grateful for all your assistance ...
<<That’s what we’re here for, Vic. You’re doing the “hard part”! I’m just supplying info. :) >>
Thanks
Victor
<<My best to you and, keep me posted. Tom>>

Re: URGENT - Ammonia, the follow up, I am still worried :(  7/13/07
Hi, Tom or whom ever responds from the WWM Crew :)
<<It’s me, Vic.>>
I have been relentlessly changing my water to the point where my water
conditions are this:
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20
PH 7.8
I’m using 1 teaspoon of Aquarium Salt per 10 Gallons of water.
<<Okay.>>
Water conditioner every change as instructed and same with ammo lock.
<<Also good.>>
The problem is my fish seem to struggle after about an hour after each water change, (75%) at the moment, even though my ammonia seems to have stabalised at 1.0 for the moment.
<<Still too high, Vic. We need to get this down even further.>>
Are my fish showing signs of permanent gill damage, or am I missing
something?
<<You’re not missing anything. I told you that time would tell. Apparently, it’s beginning to tell…>>
I have read research and they do not show the normal external signs of
ammonia poisoning, red gills, etc....
<<What happens is that the gill tissues swell which inhibits the oxygen uptake and also inhibits the expulsion of ammonia from the fish’s system. It may not exhibit itself in “textbook” fashion, though.>>
They appear to be OK otherwise!!!!! No fish loss, to date, despite all my problems.
<<Glad to hear this, Vic. Have you increased the aeration of the tank? Even dropping the water level to let the filter outflow disturb the surface water will help. Airstones/air wands are another source.>>
I am getting very demotivated and depressed.
<<Take a breath. You’ve gotten “slammed” and everyone here knows it. Focus on one thing. Whether all of your fish make it, or none make it, you’ll have done your best. You can’t do more than that. We don’t have all of the answers. (A lot of them, perhaps, but not all.) You and I knew we were in for a fight from the get-go. You got my “best” and you gave it yours. Don’t quit or get discouraged. ‘Ain’t over ‘til the fat lady sings.’>>
Even my water heater failed and now I’m keeping hood down, lights on all night and am going to rush out in the morning for a new heater. Don’t know how much more bad luck my fish can take.
<<They’re resilient, Vic. Can’t say that you haven’t had a hard way to go, however. Jeez! Stay with the water changes and, if you can find it, AmQuel from Kordon’s to “lock” up some of the remaining Ammonia.>>
Victor...
<<Don’t give up, Vic. Tom>>

Re: URGENT! Ammonia - Tom, good news :)    7/17/07
Hi Tom,
<<Hello, Vic.>>
I thought I would let you know how I am getting on.
<<I’m glad you did.>>
Firstly, I am currently doing water changes at 35% twice daily and my water conditions are:
Ammonia 0.50
<<Would love to see this at 0, obviously, but a far cry from 8.0! :) >>
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20
pH 7.4
<<Anything above 7.0 is going to keep the NH3 up and NH4 down, unfortunately.>>
Secondly,
(a) I have planted the tank more heavily.
<<Very good.>>
(b) I am no longer using Ammo Lock as I have researched that it slows down cycling by killing off some of the Beneficial Bacteria in the filter. Although, rest assured I am continuing to use Water Conditioner every water change.
<<Also, very good.>>
Also, I discovered my water filter was losing pressure, even though it was only 4 months old and, I believe this was the cause of my problem from the start!
<<Could be, Vic. You brought this up at the very beginning.>>
So after days of trouble shooting I took the motor back to my LFS and had it replaced. Before going to replace the motor I put all my original filter cages, which housed any "beneficial bacterial matter" into warmed and aired aquarium water.
<<Sounds like you’re after my job, Vic. Well done!>>
The filter was running again with the new motor installed within half an hour.
<<Excellent.>>
I am now very optimistic and the oldest of my Platy fry has now been released into general population and is doing well.
<<Just what I like to hear!>>
Still no fish loss to date, so fingers crossed and touch wood I will find any long term damage to my fish will be minimal.
<<My fingers are crossed with you, my friend, and, if all of your fish make it (good Lord willin'), you will have re-defined “good luck”!>>
Once again thanks for all your time and support, I will keep you updated once things are looking 100%.
<<I’ll look forward to hearing from you, Vic…with that 100% report!>>
Victor
<<Best. Tom>>
 

Quick questions about recovering from ammonia poisoning, and necessity of gravel  (Neale's go) – 04/22/07
Hi Crew,
<Hello!>
I have two quick questions--I had an ammonia problem a month or so ago (100% taken care of now) and I was wondering how much this has reduced the life span of fish that have survived...is the damage permanent or can they recover completely? Do the damaged cells regrow or are their gills permanently compromised?
<In theory I suppose its possible that some damage was done, but don't worry about it. Fish are surprisingly good at healing damaged tissues, certainly much more so than humans. They routinely grow back fins and even quite substantial flesh wounds.>
Also, do you have any resources I can look at regarding whether gravel is necessary for a fish tank?
<Interesting question. Gravel as such isn't essential, and it is quite common not to use gravel at all in certain aquaria, such as breeding tanks and quarantine tanks. However, most fish object to having no substrate underneath them *if* the glass is left shiny and bare. Fish *do not* like light coming from underneath them.>
I have a bio-wheel and bio-balls for the bacteria, but does your average Cory catfish need it to feel at home in the tank?
<Corydoras far prefer soft non-calcareous sand. That's how I keep mine. They keep it spotlessly clean, and you only need half an inch depth. They plough into it, spewing the sand out through their gills while they hunt for food. It's adorable!>
I think it's easier to keep the tank clean if you have no gravel to get the food stuck in, but I'd put it back if the fish actually miss it.
<If you have a thin substrate of sand it won't get dirty. Sand is too compact for faeces and food to sink into, and the catfish will turn it over constantly removing any live foods that might wriggle into it. I find sand actually easier to keep clean than gravel. The downside is that it can get sucked into the filter if you have large fish swishing the sand into the water column with their big tails (my Panaque catfish does this all the time!).>
Thanks for any help you can offer!
<No problems. Neale>
Allison

Quick questions about recovering from ammonia poisoning, and necessity of gravel (Tom's go) – 04/22/07
Hi Crew,
<<Hi, Allison. Tom with you.>>
I have two quick questions--I had an ammonia problem a month or so ago (100% taken care of now) and I was wondering how much this has reduced the life span of fish that have survived...is the damage permanent or can they recover completely?  Do the damaged cells regrow or are their gills permanently compromised?  
<<Good question, Allison. First, fish can certainly recover from a tangle with ammonia exposure/poisoning but, to hedge my bets here just a little, it would depend greatly on how big the problem was that we’re talking about. A minor exposure would likely cause the gill tissues to become irritated and, perhaps, somewhat swollen. Stressful, of course, but not irreversible. Moderate exposure would certainly cause the gill tissues to swell resulting in hampered breathing and reduced excretion of ammonia – through specialized gill tissues – from the body. Skin, eyes and gills would likely be irritated to the point of potential damage. If concentrations of ammonia were to build up to significant levels, internal organs would be irritated/damaged. A major “episode” would render the question, pretty much, moot. The fish would either die of suffocation or internal poisoning from ammonia build-up. Even if the fish didn’t succumb immediately, the damage could be so severe that it would be best to euthanize the animal.>>
Also, do you have any resources I can look at regarding whether gravel is necessary for a fish tank?  I have a bio-wheel and bio-balls for the bacteria, but does your average Cory catfish need it to feel at home in the tank?
<<Sure! Us. To start, remember that nitrifying bacteria inhabit all parts of the tank and the substrate is no exception. Gravel will, of course, provide more “surface area” for the bacteria so, from that perspective, it does provide a useful service. (One that shouldn’t be under-emphasized, I might add.) Now, to what I think you’re really getting at, no, you don’t “need” gravel/substrate in your tank. Corys are non-stop scavengers and will do so with, or without, gravel in the aquarium. In large part, its use is for aesthetic reasons only. People typically don’t like bare-bottom tanks. Fish couldn’t care less, by and large. Yes, there are some fish that lay eggs in “nests” in hollows in the substrate but I don’t think that’s your point here.>>
I think it's easier to keep the tank clean if you have no gravel to get the food stuck in, but I'd put it back if the fish actually miss it.
<<Your fish won’t “miss” gravel, Allison. Corys will stay just as busy in a bare-bottom tank as they will in a tank with gravel in it.>>
Thanks for any help you can offer!
Allison
<<I hope did help, Allison. Any more questions? You know where to find us. Best regards. Tom>>

Nessler Rgt. concern   4/21/07
Hello Crew,
<Howdy>
I work at a LFS and regularly recommend Amquel and Wardley products.
The warning labels on these products and many others warns against use with Nessler reactor test kits.
<As they should...>
I know many of my customers use the test kits and have received odd readings when testing their tank parameters. It also becomes very annoying when customers have no idea what chemicals or kits they are using. My question is how likely is that additives effect test kits.
<Very...>
What is the likelihood of a reaction happening when someone is using too many additives.
<?... Am not following you here... The Nessler's Reagent will/can give false readings in a test vial... for ammonia... with water that has been treated with certain water conditioners (containing PVP...)... but this/these false readings are not "in the tank"... the test water should be discarded... not poured back in...>
( I have a customer who insists on adding 6 different additives to his freshwater tank every week.)
Thank you for your time and patience.
           Ann
<Mmm, please refer them here... Not a good idea... we are in agreement here. Bob Fenner>

New water Caused Fish Loss   4/16/07
I have a 55 gallon freshwater tank.  For the past few weeks, after I feed the fish, the excess food that was not sucked up by the 100 gallon filter I have on there, fell to the bottom and started to collect around the decorations in the tank.  I did what I could to remove 90% of it, but it sticks to everything in a glob.  My water tested fine for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and the pH hovers at right around 6-7.  Yesterday, I was topping off the tank the way I always do and the tap water had no odor, but within 30 minutes of adding it to the tank (I only added 1 gallon and it was treated with tap water treatment) all of my fish went to the top of the tank and were gasping.  Within an hour, I had lost all 20 of my fish, including 2 Cory catfish and one lace cat. The rest were for my kids and were fancy fish, and mostly tetras of various kinds.  My 2 snails made it!  Within that first 30 minutes and all day yesterday, the tank was emitting a VERY STRONG Sulphur smell?  I tested the water after all the fish died and the only thing that was elevated was the nitrates?  I have Nitrazorb in the tank at all times and have never (in 5 years) had a total loss.  What would be causing the Sulphur smell and how do I fix it.  I have since moved my snails to my cichlid tank and they are doing fine.  I topped of the cichlid tank with the same 1 gallon of water and have had no issues at all?   Any ideas?  I'm planning on draining all the water tomorrow and rinsing the rocks, etc...Basically starting from scratch on that tank to avoid a total loss again.  The kids were devastated.  Any help you can suggest would be greatly appreciated. At a loss!? Shay Einhaus
< OK, Stick with me here. I think I can explain what is going on here. It may be a little confusing but I think I know what happened. Excess food that is not removed from the tank  is broken down into ammonia. This is deadly to fish. In an acidic pH like the one you described, there is no ammonia. The ammonia is bound up with an extra hydrogen molecule to form ammonium. This is less toxic and loved by plants. When you topped off your tank the water was probably alkaline and shifted the pH from an acidic to basic environment. All that ammonium iron then reverted to ammonia and you had an ammonia spike that started to "burn" the fishes gills. This caused all your fish to rush to the surface, since they had less active gill tissue the were starving for air. This didn't happen in the cichlid tank because it is already at a high pH so all the waste is an ammonia and the new water didn't change the pH. I would make the following recommendations. Only feed your fish enough food so that all of it is gone in 2 minutes once a day. Remove any uneaten food. Food going into the filter does not count as gone. It is out of site but not out of the system and is still affecting your fish. Get rid of the Nitrazorb. This effects the biological filtration. When the resin has expired and can no longer absorbed any additional nitrogenous wastes , it will cause the toxins to rapidly accumulate for no apparent reason. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all part of a normal aquarium system. I would recommend that you use Bio-Spira from Marineland to add the additionally bacteria needed to properly breakdown the wastes in your aquarium. Check the water you are adding with the water that is already in your aquarium or at least remove some of the old water to reduce the waste before adding any new water.-Chuck>

RO/DI question with freshwater tanks, tap trtmt., ammonia  3/26/07
        I have read through alot
<There is no such word>
of things and I am really confused.  I have 3 freshwater tanks set up, and found out I have ammonia in my tap water.
<... appreciable amounts? Unusual... I would contact your "water board"... See your utility bill>
I have done alot
<...>
to remove the ammonia before adding water to my tanks and have ended up with 4 dead and 1 with fin and tail rot now.  I have decided to get a RO/DI unit. I do understand that I need to put stuff back into the water, and most likely will be using R/O Right by Kent.  What I don't understand is the issues with the ph.  I know I need to bring the ph to what the fish are used to and make it stable, but I am not sure what products I need to use.
<Just simple aeration... letting time go by... about a day>
Also, I do not understand what I need to do with GH or kH.
<You can add sources of such hardness back... the Kent et al. products do this>
I have not gotten the RO/DI unit yet and do not want to use it until I know what I am doing, so I do not lose any more fish. If I could have someone give me a simple list of what I need for the proper ph and to make it stable again, and what or if anything I need to do for the kH and GH.  I have the following fish (not in same tank) 1 African cichlid, 2 angelfish, 1 algae eater and 1 male betta with 7 neons.
Thank you for your time.
<Actually... I would NOT buy/use such physical means of cleaning your source water... if the "ammonia" was all you're concerned with... I would use a simple dechloraminator, and store new water ahead of use... as detailed over and over on our site. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubwebindex.htm
Peruse the areas of Set-up and Maintenance... Treating Tapwater, Ammonia... For your potable uses, I would certainly have your water checked professionally... and likely use an RO device (as we do). Bob Fenner>

Fishless Cycle Mistake    2/12/07
Good Day,
<And to you>
I'll make this short and sweet.  I was attempting to fishless cycle my 29 gallon tank which  contains Ecco-Complete Cichlid Sand for substrate and an Eheim 2215 filter.  I purchased "clear ammonia" from Shaw's and added 8ml to my tank;
<Yikes... this is a BUNCH... too much ammonia presence actually kills all life... including nitrifying bacteria... I imagine (though barely) that too many pizzas would kill even me!>
however, I neglected to give the ammonia the "shake test" before I added it to my tank.  (I know, big mistake)  Of course I shook the bottle and it foamed indicating that the ammonia contains surfactants, and now I don't know what to do.  Please help?
<Oh!...>
The tank is empty besides the 40 lbs of Ecco-Complete Cichlid Sand.. and of course 29 gallons of water.  I have carbon in the filter that is only a week old.  Could that help take care of the surfactants?
<Mmm, yes>
I realize that I may have to empty my tank and rinse everything, which, of course is very frustrating.  If this is what you recommend, Is there a way that I can keep some of my bacteria alive through out the process.  Many thanks!
Dan
<I would likely dump, rinse and re-fill this tank... If you have the patience... you could try waiting a few weeks, testing (for free ammonia) and trying a test fish or two... Bob Fenner>

Re: Fishless Cycle Mistake   2/13/07
Good Morning:
<Daniel>
I just wanted to clarify a point with regards to my fishless cycle question.  Yes, 8ml is a lot of ammonia; however, I did some research on the ammonia that I used and found that it only contains 2% ammonia.  8ml of this product brought my ammonia to 3ppm, 2ppm shy of the recommended 5ppm.  
<I recommend no more than 1 ppm, but good point... this is quite a dilute solution commercially>
I ended up draining the tank and cleaning everything with water that I treated with prime in an attempt to save as much bacteria as I could.  I went out and bought a product called "Austin's Clear Ammonia", and after checking with the manufacturer to make sure the product is pure I'm starting the entire process again.
<Better by far to "start" with an organic source of ammonia (protein)... food... that will provide a steady supply...>
With the help of a nasty filter cartridge from a locally owned trusted LFS
<Ah, good>
I'm hoping to put some fish in it soon.  Thank you so much for your help!  Your site is simply awesome!
<Thank you for this follow-up, clarification. Bob Fenner>

Cycling....  Where's My Ammonia? - 02/11/2007
Hello WWMC:
<<Hello, Barb. Tom with you.>>
Wonderful site and I don't think I've seen a Q&A/Forum site for fish where the answers have been so non-judgmental and knowledgeable!  That is GREAT for beginners like me.  The hobby is difficult enough without having others shame you out of it when you're looking for answers or help.  So again, thanks for being such a great group :)
<<Thanks, Barb. Speaking for all of us, we appreciate your comments. We do, indeed, try to bear in mind that what we sometimes take for granted isn’t always “clear cut” for folks new to the hobby.>>
I did check your search engine but couldn't quite find what I was looking for.  I set up a 30 gallon freshwater tank at Christmastime and started researching the cycle, fish compatibility, etc.  Honestly?  I became terrified to do anything.
<<Understandable. Kind of falls under the category of “information overload”. So many things that you want to get right and not enough “hands on” experience to know that what you’re doing is correct. We’ve all been there.>>
I knew that just running the water through the filter would not start the cycle.
<<For what it’s worth, Barb, a long way down the road, the tank would have, in fact, cycled doing just that. Airborne ammonia is more plentiful, from the viewpoint of scientists, than most people realize. In reality, it’s one of most abundant nitrogen-containing compounds going.>>
I didn't want to needlessly harm or even kill live fish.  
<<Bless you for that.>>
I searched my area but could only find ammonia with surfactants in it for cleaning and no LFS carries BioSpira :(  
<<Raw seafood like shrimp or even regular old fish food would do it, as well, though not as quickly.>>
3 weeks ago, I put my son's betta into the tank.  Alien Slug Fish (my son is 6) lived quite contentedly for 2 weeks.  8 days ago, I went to the fish store and picked up 6 gold danios and 2 blue gouramis.  Into the tank they went with the betta.  Everything is fine.  Too fine!  And herein lies my great confusion!
<<Well, let’s see if I can clear the confusion up!>>
My father in law brought me 2 Master test strips to make sure parameters weren't too deadly.  However, they only showed PH, hardness, nitrite, chlorine, not ammonia or nitrate.  I tested with the first one on Day 3.  The nitrite showed at .5 ppm.  
<<Bacteria have established themselves. No bacteria, no nitrites.>>
I tested again on Day 5.  The nitrite showed at .25.  I did a 15% water change just because....  The fish were all happy and eating and not losing colour.  
<<Sounds good so far.>>
I became so paranoid about the veracity of the test strips, I took the day off work yesterday and bought a Hagen ammonia test and a Hagen nitrite test (the test tube type).  I checked the water yesterday afternoon, last night and this morning.  Ammonia has been 0 all three times and nitrite has been .1 all three times.  How is this possible?  Did the betta kick start the cycle when I wasn't testing for the first two weeks?  Am I nearing the end of the cycle already???  Did I mess it up completely and the fish are in danger??
<<As I mentioned earlier, Barb, a tank will cycle by itself. Not quickly, typically, but it will cycle. The Betta provided an additional source of ammonia which “fueled” the population increase of the bacteria already present. In short, you actually added Alien Slug Fish on the “downward” slope of the cycle. My guess? The region you live in has higher concentrations of airborne ammonia than might generally be found elsewhere. Regions near large populations of livestock generally account for the highest levels but winds can carry ammonia for very long distances. There are a large numbers of other sources of ammonia as well.>>
I've posted on some forums and I keep getting told that the betta did nothing for the cycle as he's too small in a 30 gallon.
<<Only partially true. He wasn’t a huge contributor, certainly, but a source is a source, as it were. All fish produce ammonia so your other responders weren’t completely correct in suggesting that the Betta “did nothing” to promote the cycling process.>>
But then, I also get that no one has a clue how I could have low nitrites without going through an ammonia spike.  
<<The ammonia did spike, Barb. You just didn’t see it. Nitrites are the by-product of the Nitrosomonas bacteria processing the ammonia. Like I said, no bacteria, no nitrites.>>
I do NOT want to add any fish until I know this cycle is complete!  The tank was set up to home a blood parrot and 2 undyed jellybeans and being hybrids, I understand they don't do well in an uncycled or cycling tank.  Please help.
<<Keep testing the water. When both ammonia and nitrites are undetectable and there are nitrates present, you’re home free. Control the nitrate levels through regular water changes since the fish you’ve mentioned aren’t particularly tolerant of high nitrate levels, either. Strive for readings below 10 ppm on these.>>
Any and all suggestions or information is very welcome.
<<I’d say you’re in pretty good shape here, Barb. To keep the volume of information from overwhelming you, pick one area to research and concentrate on that. Lots of times there will be additional items of interest that are covered along with the primary topic. Just as a diligent reader will look up an unknown word in the dictionary, if you run across something unfamiliar, look it up. The more knowledgeable you become, the less intimidating things will seem.>>
Thanks so much.
Barb
<<Happy to help, Barb. From all of us, welcome aboard! Tom>>