Re: Molly, Platy crosses... 8/30/08 9/17/08
Hi Neale,
<Jenna,>
Thanks for your reply to my original question about mollies and platies cross
breeding! I have finally motivated myself to get a few images of the fry I ask
about, though the lighting in here is terrible and good images are very hard to
get!
<Oh.>
I have attached a couple of images of the two lyretailed mollies I have (both
male and the only mollies in the tank) and the only 2 clear(ish) shots of the
fry that I managed to get. Also, here is a link to a YouTube clip of some of
them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plssSOrfvRI
<All look very healthy (and your cat sounded mighty interested, or hungry).>
The fry are growing well and the mothers are almost ready to drop the next
batch. Even though the fry have platy mothers with vivid red, white, blue/green,
black and white colourings, the fry have the yellow and black colouring of the
mollies.
<Interesting.>
So now how does it look? Do I have freak cross bred fishies or am I as horribly
confused about it as I feel?
<These look like regular Mollies. The complicated thing is this: both Mollies
and Platies can store batches of embryos, so you can move a female to another
tank without males, and then she produces fry some months later, the result of a
mating that might have happened anything up to six months later. It's also
difficult to sex some of the fancy livebearers because modifications to the anal
and pelvic fins obscure the basic anatomy. The fish in the photo labeled
"matydaddy2" for example might look like a male, but it's almost certainly a
female. The anal fin is large and triangular, though the two extended pelvic
fins could be mistake for the gonopodium. Consequently my assumption is that the
juvenile fish are her offspring. Mollies are sexed by looking at the anal fin:
on females it has the normal shape, on males it is crooked, and bent over into a
tubular structure that looks a bit like a stick.>
Thanks heaps,
Jenna
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
Living with expecting tank mates and
other questions : Marbled Mollies, Hi-Fin Tetras, Platys and a Loach
9/6/08
Hello, I am new to the site, and I have read many of the
posts which have really helped me get to know my new fish! I do however have a
few questions in relation to my personal situation. I have a 29 gal tank that
housed multiple Goldfish from March to July 08'. I kept my albino weather
loach,(Golden Dojo) in the tank as she is quite calm and gets along with
anything. I have even kept her with snails,(which they eat in the wild) and she
never even nudged them!
<All sounds nice.>
She also keeps my tank clean
and I prefer her to an algae eater,(catfish.)
<Agreed; a better combination
for the coldwater tank.>
I have a three-piece "Sunken Pirate Ship" which is
rather large and provides excellent hiding spots for the fish! In fact, the Dojo
sleeps in the middle portion of the ship every night. I also have one live plant
which I am not sure of its name. I purchased it as a dry bulb and it has grown
in the tank which is next to a window,(at least half of the tank gets sunlight
everyday.) I also have a rather large, fake, "plant" which I keep at the top of
the tank, half in the water. I have a water heater which is recommended for a
30-60gal tank, and it seems to keep the water around 74-78 degrees.
<Slightly
on the warm side for both these species; scale back to 20 C/68 F and you'll be
in the "sweet spot" for Weather Loaches and Goldfish. At warmer temperatures,
you're more likely to cause/experience problems than otherwise.>
I also have
one long bubble wand in the back of the tank, and bubble "toys" at each front
corner of the tank. The Dojo likes to lay on the long wand and swim through the
bubbles! I also have a large double filter designed for a 30-60 gal tank, and a
small single filter for a 5-15 gal tank that I use to help get the tank clear
after I clean the rocks and cycle the water.
<All sounds great; where
Goldfish are concerned, "super-sizing" your filtration system is always a good
move, and I'd argue essential for long-term success.>
Anyway, now to my
question. After I took the Goldfish out of the tank, I let just the Dojo live in
the tank for about two weeks while I treated the water and cleaned the tank,
cycling the water every few days. We had an issue with a parasite in the water
before and I wanted to make sure everything was clean,(the Goldfish had a thick
slime-coating all over, and slight fin-rot.) I thoroughly cleaned my "Pirate
Ship" and all of the toys, rocks, plants and the tank itself before introducing
new fish.
<Do understand that excess slime production and Finrot are both
symptoms of water quality or water chemistry issues. They don't "come out of the
blue" for no reason. So, check the nitrite level, to ensure the water is clean,
and check the pH, to make sure it is stable around 7.5.>
My Dojo never had
any signs of illness, but I also treated the water with Melafix, Ick Cure and
Salt even after I moved the Goldfish, just to be sure.
<Well, Melafix is
largely useless, and Ick Cure is redundant and arguably dangerous when used
randomly. Ick medications contain copper, and copper is toxic to fish. We use
them on the basis that the copper dosage will kill the parasites before it kills
the fish, but be under no illusions that the copper is bad for the fish even so.
Hence you should never use medications unless you have an express reason to do
so. Do always remove carbon when using medications, otherwise they don't work
reliably, if at all.>
Around two weeks ago, after all signs of the "slime"
were gone or cleaned, I decided to add a few fish in with the Dojo. I purchased
3 Black Mollies,(2 marbled females and one black male.) 2 Platys,(1 male and 1
female.) and 2 Hi-Fin Tetras,(not sure of the sexes.) I have been adding API
Stress Coat to ease them into their new environment, and I add API Aquarium Salt
to ensure healthy fish and water.
<Not a good combination for several
reasons. Did you read up on the requirements of these fish? Mollies must have
very warm water, 26-28C/78-82F, preferably with salt added at a dose of 3-6
grammes per litre. Such conditions will be too warm for the Weather Loach. The
usual Hi-Fin Tetra is a species called Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, a notorious
fin-nipper. Mixing with Platies and Mollies, which move quite slowly, is asking
for trouble.>
I read that all the fish in my aquarium like a little salt in
their water, but not a full marine environment.
<Tetras can't bear salt; they
come from soft water habitats, so adding salt to the water is stressing them.
Mollies demand *marine salt mix* not that "aquarium salt" guff retailers will
try and push on you. This "aquarium salt" is just table salt and doesn't raise
the pH or hardness, so won't help the Mollies much. Platies don't mind a little
salt, and will be fine at 3-6 g/litre. Loaches don't want salt, so again,
they're being stressed in the long term. Please realise adding salt in "teaspoon
per gallon" doses has no basis in science. It's something inexperienced
aquarists get told about, and because its cheap, they do it. But you will do a
lot better skipping tonic salt and concentrating on what water chemistry your
fish actually need.>
Everything was going fine. I had wondered if the Dojo
would get along with the new fish, and she hasn't even looked in their direction
so far. The new fish don't seem to be scared or intimidated by her at all, so I
think all is well with their new tank-mate!
<Ok>
Here is where I need
advice. Around the 1st of Sept. I noticed that the new females,(there are
three, 2 marbled Mollies and an Orange and black Platy.) All look swollen and
pregnant! I had anticipated this, but didn't realize it would happen so quickly!
One of the Mollies likes to lay her bulging belly on top of the heater!
<Dangerous: she can easily become burned doing this.>
The other Molly likes
to hide with the male in the big mass of plants on the top of the tank while the
Platy just hides in one of the Pirate ship sections and sticks with the male
when she's out eating and mingling. To my surprise, all the females actually
seem to take a dominant role !
<The female certainly isn't "hiding with the
male"! Be sure to think like a fish, not like a human. Mollies don't have pair
bonds. The male is staying with the female because he wants to mate with her.
He'll as soon eat her babies as anything else, so there's nothing nice going on
here.>
Anyway, I wanted to know what you would do in this situation. Should I
separate the females from the males now?
<If you want to rear the babies,
then yes, moving the females into another tank is a good idea. Scoop them with a
jar, not a net, so you don't press their bodies and damage the babies inside
them.>
Do the females also need to be separated from each other?
<No.>
I have another 29 gal.. tank, but it isn't set up and I don't even have a filter
for it yet! How long will it be before the fish give birth?
<Gestation period
is around 1 month.>
If I purchased a small 10gal tank and set it up, would it
be aged enough for the fry when they arrive?
<Yes.>
What about breeder
nets?
<Waste of money.>
Can all of the fry be kept together once they are
born?
<Yes.>
What do I need to feed the fry?
<Algae and finely powdered
flake food.>
Also, and most importantly, what can I do to make sure that the
Moms are comfortable, and live through the birthing process!
<She'll be fine.
Again, think outside the human experience. Fish don't have a pelvis like a
human, so there's no bones in the way of the birth canal. The babies slip right
out, no stress or discomfort. Mollies do miscarry when stressed, but that's
something else. Usually caused by males pestering them or by aquarists putting
them in nets or breeding traps.>
Do fish usually live or die during/after
birth?
<Your Mollies will fine, and looked after properly will have many
broods across their ~5 year life span.>
I have a 6yr old Son whom enjoys
helping me take care of the fish, and he'll be crushed if something happens to
the Moms! He is thrilled at the prospect of new baby fish right now, but I need
to prepare him for the death of the Moms if it is a common occurrence!
<It's
not. Mollies normally die because people put them in freshwater tanks with
freshwater fish. They get Finrot and Fungus. But breeding isn't an issue.>
At
the moment, I do not have any ph, nitrate, or ammonia levels for you as I have
never used the kits before. I hope you can give me some good ideas as I plan on
giving the fry every chance for survival!
<Please do read our articles on
Mollies and Livebearing fish generally:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/poeciliids.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm
Mollies can be kept in
freshwater rather than brackish water, but it's an uphill struggle because the
pH must be high (7.5-8.2), the hardness as high as practical, and the water
quality 100% perfect all the time. I'd honestly recommend setting up a brackish
water tank just for your Mollies. Fill with suitable floating plants and you
should be able to rescue at least some every month. Put the babies in a breeding
net for 6 weeks, at which point they'll be big enough to be turned loose in the
main tank.>
I thank you in advance because I think what you are doing for
these people/fish is a great thing. I remember how helpless I felt when I
started my first tank, and here I am again with my first "live bearers." Often
you feel as if you have nowhere to turn, and its hard to find people to help you
when you really need it! I had an issue with a Black Moore earlier in the year,
and my plea for help went unanswered on another site! The Black Moore died, and
I found out later that she just needed a few green peas to ease her digestion!
<Quite so.>
Fish, like so many creatures, cannot speak for themselves. It is
up to caring, responsible individuals to look after their needs and treat them
humanly! Personally, I think the traditional "round Gold-Fish bowl" should be
outlawed! I personally stopped a group of teenagers from buying one of these
"death traps" just last week!
<Well done!>
I commend you for your selfless
quest to help the fish of the world!
Anecia
<Very kind of you to say so.
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Living with expecting tank mates
and other questions : Marbled Mollies, Hi-Fin Tetras, Platys and a Loach –
09/07/08
Hello Neale, and thank you for such a timely response! It is nice to know that
someone is there to help you when you feel helpless. As for my own experiences,
I have learned that it is better to avoid obvious mishaps when it comes to fish,
and I am going to take your advice and correct my mistakes!
<We are happy to
help.>
First of all, I cannot believe the pet store sold me these fish
knowing they needed different water needs,(fresh vs. marine!)
<Actually a
common mistake. Mollies can be kept in freshwater tanks (they certainly don't
need a marine tank). It's just they're not very hardy, and 50% of the time (no
kidding) they get sick. In brackish water, by contrast, they're practically
bullet proof. And in marine tanks, the same. It's a contentious and complicated
issue why this is, and whether or not they can be kept 100% healthily in
freshwater tanks. Some argue not (like me) others argue it is possible, provided
you obey the key rules (possibly true, but impractical for casual aquarists).>
From what I can see, my Loach and Hi-Fin Tetras need to be in a freshwater tank,
and the temp needs to be considerably cooler than the Mollie/Platy tank, right?
<Platies are fine in coolish water, around 22-24 C (that's 72-75 F) will suit
them well, and will work nicely with Weather Loaches. The Gymnocorymbus will be
fine in that too. It's a common mistake to keep South American tetras too warm;
Neons for example like quite cool conditions, and "burn out" if kept warmer than
25 C/77 F. It's really just the Mollies that don't like cool conditions. They're
very much "hothouse flowers" and thrive at balmy temperatures many other fish
don't care for so much.>
I went out and bought a 10 gal tank last night, and,
as I mentioned, I already have a single, 5-15gal filter, which I have already
been using for at least a few months. If I use this filter in the new 10gal
tank, will that prevent "new-tank" syndrome? How long should I wait before
moving the fish into the new tank?
<Moving a mature filter from one tank to
another, if done quickly (i.e., within 10-20 minutes of switching the power
on/off) works extremely well. However, the water chemistry between the tanks
should be the same; at an extreme, taking a filter from a saltwater tank and
connecting it to a freshwater aquarium won't work. Try also to minimise
temperature differences; doesn't need to be exactly the same, but keep the
difference to within a couple of degrees. You can also move filter media, taking
up to 50% from a mature filter and putting it into the new filter.>
The new
tank can go marine or freshwater right now.
<The marine tank? Do you mean a
saltwater tank with corals and whatnot, or a tank that's had a little salt added
but contains freshwater fish?>
I will definitely separate the loach and
tetras from the Mollies and Platys, but which should I move to the new tank?
<Mollies certainly need a 29 gallon tank minimum, and I'd not keep them in
anything less than a 20 gallon tank in the short term. They are sensitive to
water quality issues for a start, but they're also big, active, and by community
fish standards, quite aggressive (the males anyway).>
My 29gal tank was the
one that I put the "Aquarium Salt" in, but you said that it probably isn't
helping anyway, so I could easily revert back to freshwater.
<Absolutely.>
On the other hand, should I move the Loach and Tetras into the small tank, and
let the 29gal tank be the marine tank with the Mollies and their new fry? Your
call.
<I'm not wild about putting either Loaches or Tetras in tanks smaller
than 20 gallons to be honest, so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. For
now, I'd look at the size of the fish you have, and act accordingly, bearing in
mind some of these fish will grow and may need different quarters in the long
run.>
I bought a small heater for the 5-10 gal tank. Will this be adequate?
<Can't possibly tell from here! Depends on the temperature of your home for a
start. Try it out and see. If the heater is constantly on but the tank stays
cool, it's likely underpowered for the job.>
I was thinking it would be for
the Loach/Tetras since they do not need a very warm environment. From what I can
tell, the Tetras and Loach will be stressed will the salt, and I am afraid they
might take it out on the slow-moving Mollies, so I need to separate them soon!
<You may be fine with your Gymnocorymbus; some people report no problems with
them in community tanks. I'm just telling you what sometimes happens, so that
you're prepared.>
Also, I need to purchase the right kind of salt for the
Mollies. What should I ask my retailer for, and is it sold in some of the larger
retail stores,(IE: Wal-Mart, etc..) If the general aquarium salt I bought isn't
doing any good, then the Mollies need help right away!
<What you're after
(ideally) is the salt used in marine tanks. Many brands: Instant Ocean, Reef
Crystals, etc. They're all fine for this. Buy whichever is cheapest. All you
need do is add 3-6 grammes per litre of water (0.5-0.8 oz per US gal) in each
new bucket of water. Stir well, and when the salt has dissolved, pour it in. All
livebearers will tolerate this level of salt, so you can keep Guppies,
Swordtails, Platies and Mollies all happily in this as you wish. They will be
hardier and healthier.>
Also, thank you for clearing up any misconceptions I
might have had about Melafix, and Ick Cure. I won't use them again without
consulting a professional!
<It's not so much we're professionals, as we're
not trying to sell you anything -- and that's the difference. Some stuff is
essential in life, but other things... not so much. In the long run, it pays to
know what you need and when to use it.>
Again, some of these pet stores just
don't care what they sell!
<The operative word is "some". There are many
excellent pet stores, often the "mom and pop" places where the managers are
hobbyists themselves. But even so, it's like buying a car or a computer -- the
salesman will have an angle he's trying to push, and you need to have done your
research so you know which questions to ask and which sales ploys to avoid.
Spending $10 on a basic aquarium book is money VERY WELL SPENT. Bob and I have
put together a list of our favourites, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/bookswwmsugg.htm
Have a nose around,
and see if your local library or bookstore has these volumes. If you click the
Amazon links, check to see if you can buy the book Used; that'll save you more
than a few pennies.>
Anyway, one of the two sets should be moved right away
to accommodate their needs,( either the 3Mollies/2Platys or the 2Tetras/1Loach.
) Please advise me as to what you would do in this situation!
<I'd keep the
Platies and Mollies together as a Livebearer system; you can become a
"specialist" with that tank and learn about them and breed them as you wish. Put
the other fish in the (slightly cool) tropical tank at 22-24C, and if you add
other fish, be sure that you check they'll be happy under such conditions. Many
fish -- such as Danios and Corydoras -- absolutely LOVE slightly cool
conditions. But there are a few, like Gouramis and Angels, that aren't so keen.>
I have noticed that the male Platy doesn't seem to like the Mollies very much.
Do these species live together well?
<Males of most livebearer species are
mutually aggressive. Keep the tank spacious and stock with floating plants
and/or tall plastic plants and they'll coexist up to a point. But this is why I
repeatedly make the point here and in magazines -- livebearers aren't "just add
water" easy fish! They are demanding in their way, and also very rewarding once
you get everything right.>
I have another 29gal tank, and I am planning on
setting it up soon. I might move the Platys into it, and let the Mollies and
their new fry have a tank all to themselves!
<Sounds great. But I'd honestly
put it to use as your main community tank, and leave the 10 gallon tank for
rearing baby fish and putting pregnant females in so they can rest-up away from
the males. Giving female fish restful quarters so they can give birth and/or
recuperate after laying eggs is a VERY GOOD THING and will get you serious time
off Purgatory!>
Also, you are right about the male Mollie pestering the
females. There is one female that he stays with all the time, and she gets
aggravated and makes him go away! Will he always pester her, or will things get
better when the fry mature? I suppose its better to have a lot of females and
only 1 or two males! Correct?
<Correct; 2 females to 1 male is the baseline,
but the more females the better. You'll soon have her daughters so I wouldn't go
buy a bunch of fish now, but one extra female might make all the difference.
When you're rearing your fry, sell on all the males and most of the females, but
keep a few of the girls for your "swarm" of Mollies so the mothers and daughters
can all hang out together.>
I hope everything works out for our new fish, and
I am going to do everything I can to make sure they are healthy and happy!
Again, thank you for taking the time to help me, I would never have known that I
wasn't giving the new fish all they needed to thrive!
Sincerely, Anecia
<Glad you're enjoying your hobby and learning all there is to know! Cheers,
Neale.>
Baby Fish, Livebearer Repro.
I have had 2 sets of platys, 2 guppies and 3 green swordtails. I have
been waiting forever for them to give birth. I know they get a black spot
and look like they are going to explode right before. My question is how
fast do they give birth? Do they all come out at once, or 1 every hr, etc.
The reason I ask is that I found 1 baby orange platy today. The mother still
has black inside, however it doesn't seem to be by her anal fin. Also, I
have put a few females in the breeding tank before, however they abort. Is
there any other 'Sign" to look for? I'm afraid to do it too soon. I believe
I read that platys, guppies etc. could be every 3-4 weeks.
Thanks
Kim
<Hi Kim. The "black spot" you mention is known as the Gravid Spot. It is
only reliably visible on Guppies and other small members of Poeciliidae;
larger species, like Platies and Swordtails, don't always show the spot.
That's because the spot is a colour patch but rather the developing embryos
pushing the uterus against the muscle wall of the abdomen. The bigger the
fish, the thicker the muscles, and the less visible the uterus becomes. So
forget about the gravid spot. Instead, concentrate on the shape of the
female. Prior to birth, she will be extremely rotund. In any case, as you've
learned, putting the female in a breeding trap doesn't work with anything
except the smallest species (e.g., Guppies). By far the best (and I'd argue
ONLY) way to get fry from mothers kept in community tanks is to add floating
plants. Indian Fern is ideal:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/ceratopteris.htm
Simply check the tank every morning, and look for the babies among the
leaves! Simple as that. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Baby Fish 7/3/08
Thanks! I will definitely try the floating plants. 3 females that I have
are definitely round and look like they are ready to burst! That is why I
was wondering if the orange platy is possibly still giving birth since I
found 1 baby 2 days ago. How long does it usually take for all babies to be
born? 1-2 days, hours, weeks???
Thanks again!
Kim
<If you find one or two babies, and then nothing for days, then the chances
are all the others were eaten! Typically livebearers release their batches
of fry within a short period. In my experience, you look in the tank one
morning, and find all the babies swimming about among the plants! Cheers,
Neale.>
Platies, Guppies; repro
3/3/08
I have two male guppies and one female platy along with some other bottom
feeders, i just started a ten gallon tank so i only bought a few to let the tank
cycle. I am pretty sure that the platy is pregnant from the store and the
guppies like to chase it around the tank and bite at it's fins. I has taken to
hiding in the bottom corner but comes up to eat. What should i do to relieve
stress of the platy during the pregnancy. I have an extra tank but no filter to
add to it. I had planned on maybe putting her in it for the babies to grow. If
you could please reply back at XXXX@yahoo.com that would be much
appreciated.
thanks,
Cody
<Hello Cody. Two things: first make sure the aquarium is big enough for these
fish. A 10-gallon tank is too small; 20-gallons is the minimum. When kept in
small tanks livebearers can be nippy towards one another, as you're learning. As
for stress, the main thing is to remove the males. They will fight constantly,
and nothing you can do will stop that. They will also eat any babies. Whatever
you do, don't put her in a "breeding trap" -- these are too small for adult
fish; at best you can put the babies in them. Adding some floating plants will
also help the female fish and give protection to the babies for long enough for
you to find, rescue them. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/poeciliids.htm
Specifically the sections of guppies, platies and breeding.
Cheers, Neale.>
|
Guppy and Molly Babies
2/8/08
Hi-
I recently bought fish (4 guppies and 2 mollies) and someone had babies. I have
been looking online for answers and I thought maybe you could help. I can't tell
if the mollies had babies or the guppies!!
~Fish Lover~
<You really can't tell when they're very small, though baby Mollies tend to be a
bit bigger and more dumpy-looking than newborn Guppies. Do remember that the fry
are at great risk of being eaten, so you'll want to add some floating plants to
give them shelter and a bit of safety. Breeding traps work up to a point, but
baby fish often don't do well in them, so I prefer to move newborn fish to a
small aquarium where they can be reared properly. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Guppy and Molly
Babies 2-9-08
Thank you. I do have floating plants in my aquarium. I am keeping
them with my other fish, though. None of them seem to be eaten or
bothered, and it is fine by me if there is only one still alive because
I don't know if my ten gallon tank can hold much more.
Thanks. ~fishlover~
<Happy to help. A 10-gallon tank is far too small for Mollies, and
realistically too small for Guppies, or at least, any group of Guppies
that includes a male. Male Guppies will harass each other and
unreceptive females in small tanks. As for the Mollies, unless you
adding salt (at about 6 g per litre) you will have real problems keeping
them healthy because they are so very sensitive to Nitrate. Do remember
"loving your fish" is less about cute names and more about providing
them with optimal living conditions. Animals don't give a rip whether
they're loved, but they do notice if they aren't cared for properly. So
do plan ahead, monitor water chemistry and water quality carefully, and
be prepared to make changes when (not if!) they are required. Here at
WWM we don't hand out advice just to be awkward, but to help. Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: Guppy and Molly
Babies
I went to PetCo to get the fish. The fish person said that that was
a good amount of fish. They are all very healthy.
~fishlover~
<Who ya gonna believe... someone who wants to sell as many fish as
possible, or someone who has been keeping fish for over 20 years and
makes his living writing for fish magazines and books? Seriously, a
10-gallon tank isn't big enough for Mollies, and will be a war zone if
you have more than one male Guppy in there. Sure, they're fine now. But
that might not last. Mollies usually need salted water to do well, which
Guppies don't mind, so add the marine salt mix and be done with it. A
mere 6 g/litre isn't going to cost you much. Feel free to read any
aquarium book about Mollies and Guppies, and you'll find much the same
advice I'm giving you here. I'm labouring the point only because you
sign yourself "fishlover" which kind of suggests that you actually care
about the well-being of your fish. If not, and you're happy to take the
risk of them fighting, damaging each other, getting stunted, poisoned by
nitrate, or whatever because they're just cheap little pets you bought
on a whim, that's your own choice. But perhaps a change of nickname
might be in order? Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Guppy and Molly
Babies
Ok, well I will do my best but....never mind. I don't have any male
guppies.
<Good stuff. Do remember that some of your baby fish are likely to be
males, so even if you just bought females from the pet store, three
months from now you'll have sexually mature males throwing their weight
around. So plan ahead. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Guppy and Molly Babies 2-9-08
Thank you. I saw a black spot on some of the babies on their tails. Does
that mean that they are female?
<In a word, no. I suspect you are thinking of the famous (infamous)
"gravid spot", a dark region that appears around the back half of the
ventral surface of the abdomen of *some* female livebearers when they
are close to delivering their brood. It is a hopelessly unreliable
sexual characteristic even for telling if female fish are pregnant, so
in cases of limited RAM for storing useful fishkeeping facts, drag that
particular file to your brain's Trash icon and delete. Guppies (and most
other livebearers) are best sexed by looking at the anal fin; after a
couple of months it should be apparent that some of them have normal
fins (females) while others have modified, rod-shaped fins (males).
Cheers, Neale.> |
Platy and swordtail fry 2/7/07
Hi
<Hello>
I have two questions. One, is that I have 1 red platy fry and 3 swordtail fry.
All the rest of the fry squeezed themselves between the glass and rocks and
killed themselves. What were those fry thinking?!
<Mmm... trying to avoid predation?>
Second, I've had 2 red platies give birth in my comm. tank and I haven't seen
one single fry. Do you think that they all just got eaten after the first day?
thanks.
Sean
<Could be... do take a read on WWM re Poeciliid reproduction... Bob Fenner>
Livebearer birthing
clinic.... 1/15/08
Hello there,
<Hello.>
I have sought you out previously for advice and your team has been spot on.
About 8 months ago I purchased a few mollies (6) for my 60L tank and 7 Guppies
for my 30L tank, I managed to stabilise the water conditions and both fish
groups were kicking around very healthily - too healthily in fact.
<Oh?>
My Mollies have now multiplied from 6 Adults to 3 Adults, 30 juvenile and 30
baby (with more baby on the way), and the Guppies have gone from 7 Adults to 6
Adults, 10 Juvenile and about 40 baby.
<Well done.>
I have visited all the local pet shops and aquarist stores supporting Tropical
Fishkeeping, and all of them refuse to take Mollies due to their
incessant breeding and lack of 'factory controlled' conditions of life. I
advertised for a few weeks in the local paper to no avail, and I asked
around all the people I know - I managed to get one friend who was on the verge
of purchasing an aquarium (110L) when he read up on Mollies and decided to buy
some fish of his own (non-Mollie) instead of having free ones off me.
<Shame. Mollies are lovely fish!>
I started off as a pretty inexperienced Tropical Aquarist, but now I am
confident in my abilities and have been looking to other fish (for instance
Bichirs etc) however I only have space for the 2 tanks, and I am left with over
100 fish eventually.
<Yikes!>
It's getting close to critical point - 2 water changes a day in each tank, very
soon the nitro cycle will disappear and the bacteria will perish -
forcing the ammonia levels to skyrocket.
<Indeed.>
Any enough monologue, I have a few questions, if you don't mind...
<Go ahead...>
What options are left for my Guppies and Mollies?
<Try visiting online Fish Forums. There are many. Some have Buy/Sell sections,
where you can easily offload unwanted fish. If you have wildly multiplying
livebearers, one solution is to install a smallish predator. Seahorses, for
example, happily eat baby Mollies kept in marine aquaria, but even in a
fresh/brackish system, things like Glassfish and Halfbeaks and Sleeper Gobies
will chow down on fry.>
Say, I eventually managed to sort out the Guppy and Molly issue, would a
Bichir in the 60L be excessive by itself namely this one (
http://www.tropicalfish4u.co.uk/Fish/Freshwater/MiscFish/CuvierBichir ) ?
<60 litres is a bit small for Polypterus senegalus. That fish can comfortably
get to 25 cm in captivity, and while it isn't overly active, you still need to
respect the fact it's a fairly big fish. A 120 litre tank would be the minimum,
in my opinion.>
Also, I am considering upgrading my 2 aquariums to a single Marine Environment
and have a few questions - is it just the inclusion of the Protein skimmer and
high salt that is the difference between the 2 types of aquariums?
<Depends on where you're going with the marine tank. I've kept coldwater marines
in tanks that were basically nothing more than coldwater freshwater tanks but
with salt added to the water. This sort of approach is viable with hardy marines
that live in coastal habitats and don't really care much about water chemistry
fluctuation. But once you start with reef organisms, things get A LOT more
complicated, a LOT more quickly. Skimmers, UV, quarantine tanks, sumps,
high-output lights, Redox, all become part of the picture. These are things
that, for the most part, are optional or not necessary in freshwater tanks.>
- Does/Can Live Rock substitute Protein Skimmers?
<Nope. Do read some of the many EXCELLENT articles about the topic here at WWM
by the various marine gurus.>
- Is it possible to get a silent Marine setup (bedroom you see...)
<Quite possibly, but not if it has a skimmer, sump, etc. But I kept my coldwater
marine tank in my bedroom when I was teenager and it was fine.>
- Do Marine smell at all/more than Tropical?
<Smell different, I suppose. Salt water does have a distinctive "tang". Some say
it's iodine, others ozone. Whatever it is, it is a nice smell.>
Thanks for your assistance,
GZ
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Livebearer birthing
clinic.... 1/16/08
Thanks for the quick reply.
<No problem.>
I will look into some of those species that you mentioned as small carnivores -
I don't think seahorses are available here in the UK,
<Yes they are, but they're expensive because they're tank-bred nowadays. This
makes them infinitely easier to keep than wild seahorses (they eat dead food!).>
nevertheless, a conversion to fish-marine is possible since this tank has
Mollies in (I also have some small Suckermouth Catfish - are they capable of
reverse osmosis too ?).
<No, Plecs cannot live in seawater. Do check you understand what "reverse
osmosis" means -- nothing to do with seawater!>
I have just a few more questions:
- A friend in Germany has several huge tanks, 90L, 200L, 300L and always advises
against the 'all-in-one' commercial filters/pumps. He instead used (from what I
can remember) a foam layer which is permanently fixed to the aquarium walls in
which the pump is placed behind. Overtime it matures as the bacteria reside in
it, and starts to look like a rock face of sorts. Is there a correct name for
this filter medium - I cannot find any reference to this at all, and have since
lost contact with my friend.
Would such a filter be overkill in a 60L tank?
<No filter is "overkill" if it provides at least the amount of filtration
required for the livestock being kept. A too-big filter can be a waste of money
in terms of purchasing and running costs though, and too much water current
upsets fish from relatively still waters. All this said, I can't really see what
anyone would object to a commercial filter. It is true that manufacturers are
sometimes optimistic about how much livestock or what size tank a filter is
suitable for. But provided you go by turnover, no harm will be done. A basic
community tank needs at least 4 times the volume of the tank in turnover per
hour, a big/messy fish system at least 6 times, and marines and giant freshwater
fish at least 10 times.>
With tanks, is it always wise to go for surface area over depth (for chemical
loss via aeration)?
<In theory, yes, a filter that it wide but shallow, with all the bacteria close
to the atmosphere will indeed outperform one that is tall but narrow, where the
bacteria must rely on the oxygen supplied by the flow of water. In practise this
isn't usually an issue, and other things, like water changes and water
circulation, will have a much bigger impact on the livestock than the shape or
design of the filter. PROVIDED of course that the filter is adequate in terms of
turnover and the choice of filter media.>
The Mollies and Guppies I currently have in the juvenile state, about 14 of
them, smaller than adults but a lot bigger than fry, what could I do with these?
Nobody in the local area on forums wants Mollies, and some folk explicitly
advise/abhore female mollies and Guppies for the 'population explosion' risk.
<Can't think why. Anyone sticking either in a community tank with, say, cichlids
or small predators such as swordtails or Pim pictus catfish isn't really going
to have a population explosion!>
Thanks for your help,
GZ
<Cheers, Neale.>
Platys.... what if? Molly
crosses? 1/3/08
Hi Guys or Gals!
<Hello.>
OK, so.. about 9 months ago my cousin dumped some mollies and platys in my
freshwater tank due to them being baby making machines at
her house. I got sick of my freshwater tank constantly having problems with
disease and infection so I pulled the Mollies and over the course of many, many
long hours, I slowly converted them to marine fish (in their own separate tank
not in with my other marine fish) They’re doing great! (both tanks) It’s been 6
months. Some are Dalmatian mollies and some are molly and platy cross breeds
(living in a 1.024-1.025 salinity).
<Never heard of Platy/Molly hybrids. Are you sure? I'd LOVE to see pictures of
these Platy hybrids.>
I even have a couple new babies in that tank. So my question is.. are the Platys
solely freshwater?
<While Mollies adapt to marine conditions fine, I've never heard of anyone adapt
any Platy (or Swordtail) to marine conditions. Brackish water up to SG 1.005 is
likely the limit.>
Or can they be converted like the mollies as well?
<Not that I'm aware of.>
I heard they’d be OK in brackish water, But I want to know if they’d live
comfortably in a marine environment.
<Likely not.>
Thanks for your time.
Rochelle
<Cheers, Neale.>
Pregnancy Question - 11/26/07
Hey it's me again!
If the gravid spot is not the pregnancy clincher, then what is? I've noticed
that at the end of the belly and right next to the anal fin forms a point right
before she gives birth.
-Any help?
-Sarah
<The problem with the gravid spot is that it isn't a surface feature. It's
caused by the embryo-filled sac being pressed against the muscle wall of the
abdomen. So you see a dark area just in front of the anal fin. It's very
reliable on wild-type Guppies and Mosquitofish. But as soon as you look at fancy
livebearers, which have stronger colouration, or larger species like Platies or
Swordtails, you can't see the gravid spot because the colouration and/or muscles
obscure it. As a general rule, if a female livebearer above around 2-3 months
has ever been with a male more than 2 months old, she will have been fertilised.
Since livebearers can have as many as six broods from one insemination, you
effectively need something like 6 months or so of time to completely "use up"
any sperm deposited and so be "ready" for mating once more. This is why people
breeding livebearers separate males and females as soon as they can be sexed,
and never, ever mix males with females except for deliberate breeding purposes.
Once you've had a few broods, you will probably be able to tell for your
particular fish what they look like a few days from parturition, but beyond
that, you cannot reliably tell whether a female is actually pregnant or not.
Hope this helps, Neale.>
Platies and Swordtails
changing sex 10/26/07
I love your website. I'm very sorry if this topic is already on your
website, I've already looked as much as I possible could. I'm doing a mid-term
project in science class. I am going to see if Platies can change gender. I have
to look up info to support it. I know that only hermaphrodites can change
gender. I also know that it can only happen to females, and that it takes longer
for guppies to change sex than platies or swordtails. I'm actually going to do
the experiment, how long does it take, approximately, for them to change? Also
that there must be all females present, no males. I already own a lot of
livebearers, adults and babies, I've had fish my whole life. Can you help me
please? Thanks a lot.
<Greetings. Without wanting to do your homework for you, let me save you some
effort on one aspect of your project: There is no evidence at all any
Xiphophorus species change sex. As your literature review should reveal, while
it has been mentioned in the aquarium literature many times, it has never been
observed under laboratory conditions. It is widely believed to be a myth, with
aquarists having misidentified a slow-developing male as a female. Sex changes
in fish tend to confined to marine perciform groups. The classic examples are
among the Wrasses, which typically start off as females, but the largest ones
become males. This is called Protogyny ("female first"). Protoandry, where all
individuals start off as females, is not so common, but one well-known example
is the Anemonefish, where the largest member of a colony becomes the female.
Cheers, Neale>
Setting up fry/quarantine tank,
livebearers, platies – 09/29/07
I'm new to this hobby and I really appreciate having this site to go to for
help.? I have a 10 gallon tank set up in my classroom with 3 female red? wag
platys.? I've had the platys for almost 3 weeks now and they seem to be doing
pretty well.? One likes to hide at times, but she'll always come out for a pinch
of food and sometimes she hangs out with the other two so I think she is Ok.?
Anyway, our school's back-to-school night was last night and one of my?
students'? parents (who used to run a fish store in NY) said one of my platys
was pregnant.?
<Pretty much a steady state...>
I had? thought she? might be because she? has a fatter belly than the other two,
but I didn't know if maybe she was bloated/sick.? I? do not see a dark spot on
her so I'm assuming it will be awhile longer for her to give birth.? I know it
is a long shot to think that I might be at school when she has her fry and can
actually save them from being eaten, but I thought I'd set up a tank to use as a
fry tank just in case.?
<Can use a trap of a few designs... or add some/more hiding material... trust to
chance... some young should survive in such a setting>
And besides, if it doesn't get used as a fry tank, I could use it as a
quarantine tank for any new fish that I want to add to my tank.? I'm going out
this weekend to get the supplies to set up this tank.? My question is how to
best get this fry tank up and running as quickly as possible.?
<Posted... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm
and the linked files above>
I have? read that I could take water from my existing tank and put it into my
fry tank to get the cycling started.?
<Yes>
Should I filter? out the waste (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) that I siphon out
during the water changes from my old tank? before putting it into the new fry
tank???
<Mmm, no, I wouldn't>
I'm doing twice weekly water changes with my classroom tank now.? Should I put
the old water I siphon from my classroom tank into the fry tank each time I do a
water change or would putting it in during the initial set-up be enough to get
the cycling started and keep the good bacteria going until the fry tank is
needed?
<I would use the "old" water for the new tank... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/platyreprofaqs.htm>
Thanks!
Carolyn
<Bob Fenner>
Platies and
guppies? Crosses 8/4/07
Hey there WWM crew,
I couldn't find an answer to this question on the site nor
anywhere else in my books or other online sources, so maybe you
can still help me out. The other day I saw my female guppy
mating with my male platy, and a female platy trying to mate
with just about everyone and anyone. Is this normal first of
all?
<Mmm, yes... Poeciliids are wanton this way>
And secondly is it possible that my female guppy may get
pregnant with a half platy half guppy group of fry? Thank for
your continuous help!
Sincerely,
Erica
<And yes, can occur... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/livebrrreprofaqs.htm
and some of the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Birthing without a mate?
Guppies 7/28/07
My daughter's guppy gave birth to 4 live guppies on May 20. We purchased her
pregnant from a pet store. She was removed from the babies immediately and has
been alone since. On July 24 we found 3 new babies in the tank with the mother!
There has not been any other fish with her since the birth and I am trying to
figure out how this happened? Is this common and is she done? Yikes!
<Greetings. Yes, this is normal. Guppies practise something called
"superfetation" which means that they can divide up the fertilized eggs into
several different batches of embryos. Each batch develops at a different rate,
allowing the female to give birth to a succession of broods following a single
mating.. Their close relatives the dwarf mosquitofish can actually stretch this
out to no fewer than 6 broods from a single mating! Anyway, welcome to the
wonderful world of livebearers! Cheers, Neale.>
Can a fish be "sterilized"? Oh yes...
poeciliids here 7/9/07
This may be one of the more unusual questions you have received to date.
I have many mollies that were just fry last September. One of the fish who has
turned male is having the same exact tumor problem his father did. The father
fish succumbed after the slow growing nodular tumor spread and got in the way of
his breathing after several months. One of his son's has been growing a tumor
off to the side of his body and localized on the belly, but fortunately not
spread to where it would effect his breathing. He still has a good quality of
life and is courting his sisters along with the other males. I'd had to separate
him since Mollies are a social fish who do well in groups, but I also don't like
the thought of him reproducing what appears to be a bad gene.
What I'm wondering, would it be safe (and painless) to snip his gonopodium to
prevent reproduction? If not, any other suggestions? I don't think he deserves
to be put alone or die because of this. Thanks.
<Greetings. Sterilising livebearers has been done in the past in the way you
describe, typically for breeders to prevent people "copying" their new
varieties. Whether it is safe or painless I cannot say, though as a man, the
idea of anyone snipping anything off of me fills me with dread! Fish *do* have
nerves in and around their fins, as can be seen by the reaction when fin-nippers
attack things like angelfish and gouramis. But your bigger problem is what to do
with the male. Personally, I'd isolate him. Put him in a tank on his own with
(ideally) other brackish water fish. Mollies are not really schooling fish, so
while they enjoy company, they don't pine away from the lack of it (unlike, say,
neons or Corydoras). You are absolutely right to try and remove poor genes from
your stock. Whether a tumour is actually genetic though is a different question.
While they can be, in many cases they are caused by other factors, such as
viruses. In female livebearers they also seem to be caused by certain problems
during gestation. But if it is genetic, there's no reason to assume only the
male carries it; genetic disorders can be carried by females even if they don't
express them. I'm sure you recall from biology class at school how Haemophilia
works, for example, which is a human disease that can be carried by females but
usually manifests itself only in males. In other words, when you breed the next
generation from your females plus some new males from elsewhere, don't be
surprised if you see this tumour reappear (if it is genetic rather than caused
by something else). Cheers, Neale>
Re: Can a fish be "sterilized"? 7/10/07
Per the below advise, I will go ahead and just separate Jack Jr. (fish with
the tumor - they all have names). Would a 1 gallon tank (aerated and filtered of
course) be enough for him to live his last days out in? (I don't have a separate
tank avail, so they just reproduce in a 55 gal and babies live by hiding in the
abundant plants an decor.
<No, a 1 gallon tank isn't really acceptable for a molly. At some point breeders
have to euthanise unwanted fry. Fish produce too many offspring to care for them
all, especially if they're "faulty". But that's your call.>
On coloring for mollies, I seem to have a blend I have not seen - I have a few
that are a deep beautiful orange color on the body, black dorsal, side and tail
fins and pure white belly. I have not seen any in pictures with quite this
variety. How common/uncommon is this color pattern? They almost resemble a
red-wag platy color-wise. I read up that fish can change color to a degree
associated with mating; would this be the case, or have I lucked out on getting
a somewhat unique color scheme? (The fry came out of gold dust mollies)
<I have no idea whether such a variety is new. Creating a new colour variety
isn't difficult, but getting it to breed true (i.e., the same, generation after
generation) is much more difficult. Same as with breeding any animal. Your
regional livebearer club (e.g.. American Livebearer Association or British
Livebearer Association or whatever) will probably be your next stop if you're
serious. As well as having a club you can join to discuss with other experts,
they will have auctions and meetings where you see and learn about livebearer
breeding. Mollies generally do not change colours in the same way as, say,
cichlids. Good luck! Neale>
Re: Can a fish be "sterilized"? 7/10/07
Thank you again. I think at this point I am seriously considering
euthanization in light of the tumor growing so that he does not die a slow or
painful death. I think I'll just keep my fish as a hobby for now, but thank you
for letting me know there are organizations for livebearers and such should I
ever get more serious down the road. Have a wonderful day!
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>
Male guppy romancing female platy
6/5/07
Hi,
<<Hello, Krista. Tom here.>>
I have a male fantail guppy that is exhibiting mating behavior towards one
of my female platys. He follows her around, snuggles up next to her and
swishes his tail in her direction.
<<A Guppy “lounge lizard”, eh?>>
She is not interested and is constantly trying to stay away from him.
<<You’ve raised her well, Krista. :) >>
Can they crossbreed?
<<I’ve run across unverifiable accounts of Guppies cross breeding with
Platys but find these reports rather doubtful. Platys with Swordtails? Yes,
but not Platys with Guppies. Livebearing females can store the males’ sperm
for a period of time resulting in multiple births from a single mating. This
occasionally gives rise to accounts from hobbyists that a female Platy, for
instance, became pregnant by a male Guppy. Doesn’t take into account that
she likely mated with one, or more, male Guppies at the LFS before coming to
her new home. A far more likely scenario, in my opinion.>>
What is the likelihood that she can become pregnant by him?
<<Again, in my opinion, none.>>
I purposefully have all female platys (3) and 2 male fantail guppies because
I didn't want babies - my tank is too small (4 gal BiOrb).
<<In a tank this small, it’s barely possible that fry – from viable parents
– would escape being eaten by the adults anyway, Krista. Nothing cruel or
heartless about this. Simply the natural way of things.>>
Thanks,
Krista
<<You’re welcome. Tom>>
Hello, FW livebearer info. 5/10/07
Hello guys,
(From Andreas, Cyprus)
<Greetings from San Diego, California>
Great website guys, i just found it out and there is endless information.
I have tried to search for my question to your website but i didn't manage to
find anything.
My question is how old the female balloon molly and female guppy has to be to
be able to get fertilized and give fly?
<Only a few (three-four) months really>
Also how old males has to be to be able to fertilize the females?
<About this amount of time also>
Just for information in my tank i have 3 balloon molly, 4 guppy, 10 tetras, 2
angels, a pleco and a kuhlii loach. And 47 balloon molly fry and 6 guppy fry.
The fry is currently in breeding net, unfortunately i can't let them free yet in
main tank because of the angels, even thought my angels are not so big they
would happily eat them all. I'm thinking to get rid of them but they are really
good looking so i don't know yet what to do)
<Perhaps another aquarium for the angels by themselves...>
anyway I'm going to make another small tank soon for the fry to grow, so maybe
that would solve the problem.
<Ah yes>
Thanks.
<Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner, who was out in Cyprus in '96 for the Hash House
Harriers Int'l runs.>
Breeding grass on top or bottom? Depends on species 4/24/07
Thank you so much for your website! I have spent many hours there and have
learned a lot!
<Good>
I have a 10 gallon tank with platies and one is definitely pregnant. I bought
some plastic aquarium breeding grass today and was wondering if it is better to
let it float on top of the tank or anchor it in the gravel at the bottom for the
upcoming fry?
<Near the top for these livebearers>
I was concerned if the fry would get enough crushed flake food if living in the
grass on the bottom.
I suppose I could cut the grass and let part of it float and put part of it on
the bottom?
Thank you so much!
Michele
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Swordtail guppies? 4/10/07
Hello again,
I've been sucked into your website :) And I have another question I can't seem
to find an answer to. Can you breed swordtails with guppies?
Because the third fish in my tank is a male guppy (with a female swordtail and a
male molly) and, while the molly has been mating with the swordtail only
occasionally, the guppy won't leave her alone (yeah those guys are insane). So I
was wondering, with all that action, could I end up with swordtail guppy mutant
babies? :P
Thanks,
Didi
<Possibly. BobF>
Superfetation 3/30/07
My son bought a female guppy nearly two months ago, and within the first week
she had 8 babies. She has been kept in a tank by herself for the time since, and
yet she just had three more babies tonight. As they are live bearers, I am not
sure what is going on, and I came across the term superfetation, and wanted to
know exactly what all this meant? Will we have any more babies to deal with?
<Mmm, plainly put, this is the capacity to store viable sperm in (this case
female guppies') reproductive tract. A useful strategy for when it "takes two to
tango" and there are no males about. You may indeed have more young from this
"lone" female. Bob Fenner>
