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FAQs on Carbon Dioxide and Planted Tanks:
Dangers
Related Articles: Carbon dioxide and the planted freshwater
aquarium by Neale Monks, CO2 Canopies,
Related FAQs: CO2
& Planted Tanks 1, CO2 &
Planted Tanks 2, CO2 Canopies, & FAQs on CO2 Planted Tanks: Rationale/Use, Sources, Yeast-Bottle Types, Compressed Gas Types, Control/Delivery, Measure,
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Fish Wasting Away /RMF's try 12/10/14
Hello,
<Samuel, greetings>
I've lost a number of fish to something in my tank and I am at a loss
for how to treat it.
<Have scanned this msg. and am going to ask Neale Monks here to respond
separately>
The first symptom seems to be spitting out of food rather than
eating it. Eventually the fish will become lethargic, start hiding and
stop trying to eat at all.
<Good clues. What comes to mind up to this point is either a dire
environmental issue or a microbial to Protozoan issue>
I have been removing to treat or euthanize when I notice the spitting
behavior but new infections continue. A few fish
have recovered from it and it has only, as far as I've noticed, affected
a few species. All of my Celebes rainbowfish have been affected with 66%
mortality of the adults and my Endler's have been dying at a higher rate
than that. Fry/young fish seem more affected as I lost all but 2 of a
batch of ~15 Celebes fry. Species which haven't had any casualties
include Pseudomugil paskai, threadfin rainbowfish, Apistogramma borelli
and a blue ram.
The tank is a 50g acrylic. Heavily planted, CO2 injected and
fertilized (CSM+B, K2HPO4, KNO3 and K2SO4).
<To browsers; always a poss. of issues w/ CO2 use, inorganic fert. use>
NH3/NO2 0ppm and Nitrate varies between 5 and 20ppm. It's been set up
for about 6 months and was an upgrade from a
29g.
The trouble started, as far as I can tell, back in early October with
the addition of 5 Habrosus cories. I had lost 2 during quarantine but I
chalked it up to stress as both were emaciated when I got them and they
died the first couple days. About 3 days after adding the cories I
noticed one of my female Endler's was spitting food out instead of
eating it. I left her in the tank for a few days until I noticed one of
my Celebes and another endler showing the same behavior. The Celebes was
isolated and treated (still died) and both Endler's were euthanized. On
10/13, when I noticed additional infections
<... what came/comes first... the symptoms or cause/s?>
I treated the tank with Metronidazole (3 treatments of 500mg every other
day). At the end I performed a large water change and
added active carbon to help remove any remaining medication.
<Good>
After a few days additional fish showed symptoms and the 2 Celebes I
treated in quarantine showed little signs of improvement (one died
during treatment, the other was still not eating, even when presented
live food). On 10/23 I treated with Kanamycin (3 treatments of 1440mg
every other day). The remaining Celebes seemed to respond well to this
treatment. At this point I introduced a few swordtails from another tank
and the infection decimated them. All were infected and only one
recovered. I continue to euthanize
Endler's that spit food, don't show interest in food or look thin after
a heavy feeding. My best guess was that this is a flagellate but I fear
it might be fish TB (since the Kanamycin seemed to help some fish).
Thanks for any help you can provide and for this great resource you have
available.
<I suspect something simple yet profound is amiss here...
Really, just too little O2, perhaps w/ too much CO2. Do you monitor
hardness? Do you have access to dissolved oxygen test gear? Ask your LFS
re. We will solve this mystery.
Bob Fenner>
Fish Wasting Away /Neale's go
12/11/14
Hello,
I've lost a number of fish to something in my tank and I am at a loss
for how to treat it. The first symptom seems to be spitting out
of food rather than eating it.
<Quite often goes along with some environmental stress.>
Eventually the fish will become lethargic, start hiding and stop trying
to eat at all. I have been removing to treat or euthanize when I notice
the spitting behavior but new infections continue. A few fish have
recovered from it and it has only, as far as I've noticed, affected a
few species.
All of my Celebes rainbowfish have been affected with 66% mortality of
the adults and my Endler's have been dying at a higher rate than that.
Fry/young fish seem more affected as I lost all but 2 of a batch of ~15
Celebes fry.
Species which haven't had any casualties include Pseudomugil paskai,
threadfin rainbowfish, Apistogramma borelli and a blue ram.
The tank is a 50g acrylic. Heavily planted, CO2 injected and fertilized
(CSM+B, K2HPO4, KNO3 and K2SO4). NH3/NO2 0ppm and Nitrate varies between
5 and 20ppm. It's been set up for about 6 months and was an upgrade from
a 29g.
<Switch off the CO2 and fertiliser system. The plants
will be okay for a few days/weeks thusly. Why? Because sometimes CO2 can
be dosed too high, and this will cause serious stress to the fish. It's
easy enough to discount this problem by switching the CO2 system off for
a few days and watching what happens. As plant growth will slow down,
fertiliser will be redundant, so you can switch that off too. Again,
they're a variable that we want to discount before moving onto other
possible issues.>
The trouble started, as far as I can tell, back in early October with
the addition of 5 Habrosus cories. I had lost 2 during quarantine but I
chalked it up to stress as both were emaciated when I got them and they
died the first couple days. About 3 days after adding the cories I
noticed one of my female Endler's was spitting food out instead of
eating it. I left her in the tank for a few days until I noticed one of
my Celebes and another endler showing the same behavior. The Celebes was
isolated and treated (still died) and both Endler's were euthanized. On
10/13, when I noticed additional infections I treated the tank with
Metronidazole (3 treatments of 500mg every other day). At the end I
performed a large water change and added active carbon to help remove
any remaining medication. After a few days additional fish showed
symptoms and the 2 Celebes I treated in quarantine showed little signs
of improvement (one died during treatment, the other was still not
eating, even when presented live food). On 10/23 I treated with
Kanamycin (3 treatments of 1440mg every other day). The remaining
Celebes seemed to respond well to this treatment. At this point I
introduced a few swordtails from another tank and the infection
decimated them. All were infected and only one recovered. I continue to
euthanize Endler's that spit food, don't show interest in food or look
thin after a heavy feeding. My best guess was that this is a flagellate
but I fear it might be fish TB (since the Kanamycin seemed to help some
fish).
<Fish TB is essentially incurable, so medication won't have any great
impact. Wish it did! I'd back off from adding more medications before
checking the environment thoroughly. When many fish die, and they all
shows signs of stress, then the environment is surely the top
possibility to consider. Rapid pH changes (common where CO2 is used
inappropriately) cause many/all of the symptoms you describe. Very rapid
plant growth without considering their oxygen demand at night is another
common factor. What happens is we often minimise water circulation to
avoid driving off the CO2, but during the night plants use up more O2
than they produce (they do
the reverse by day) and they can lower the oxygen content of the water
substantially. This is especially so if organic decay (dead leaves for
example) is present in substantial amounts. So: try minimising CO2 for a
few days as outlined above, whilst also boosting O2 as much as you can,
e.g., with an airstone at each end of the tank. See if the fish perk up.
Look to see if the fish are skittish, moving their gills rapidly, or
staying ostentatiously close to the surface/areas of strong water
movement -- all can be signs that the O2/CO2 balance in the tank isn't
right.
Malayan Livebearing Snails crawling up the glass by day is another
telltale sign -- they're veritable miners' canaries for this! While I'm
not ignoring your idea that disease could be to blame, I'd still
discount environmental stress before anything else. If you've done
antibiotics and anti-Protozoans already to no good effect, then the
"usual suspects" -- Velvet, Whitespot, Finrot, etc. -- can be
discounted, then what's left -- Fish TB and other Mycobacteriosis-like
infections -- are pretty much untreatable. So if that's the situation
here, all you can do is allow the disease to run its course until what's
left are the fish whose immune systems have defeated
the bacteria. But even here, it has to be stated that Mycobacteriosis is
as much environmental as anything else, so it's likely something else is
going on as well, even if a bacterium species is to blame.>
Thanks for any help you can provide and for this great resource you have
available.
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Fish Wasting Away 12/20/14
Hey Crew,
<Samuel,>
I took your suggestions and messed around with my CO2/fertilizer
among other things. One good indicator is that my MTS spend all day in
the sand/substrate.
<Indeed. See them up the glass with the lights on, and something is
amiss.
If they're happy in the sand without showing their little faces, then
all is well.>
My Ramshorn also haven't been hanging out around the top of the tank. As
a precaution I dialed my CO2 back a little and refilled my drop checker
(showing greenish blue before and after). I also had my CO2 off during
both medication regimens, which were also sans ferts. Additionally I had
my CO2 off for 4 days during thanksgiving when I was out of town. My CO2
shuts off at the same timer my lights do. To improve dissolved oxygen I
started running an airstone at night. I neglected to mention I also dose
flourish excel at slightly less than the recommended amount.
<So without CO2 did the fish behave differently or better?>
I ceased excel dosing for a week to see if the fish showed any
improvements to no effect. I tested and I do have some day/night pH
swings but not by much. All I've got is an API kit but the difference
looks to be about 0.2 lights off to lights on. The LA tap comes out ~8.2
here and is moderately buffered. I haven't checked the TDS or
conductivity but a local planted tank shop told me that he runs all his
tanks on tap and dosing moderately shouldn't be a problem. The issue
might be related to or exacerbated by organic matter in the tank. I
typically do a pretty good job pruning old growth and removing dead
plant matter, but there have been times where I get busy and let the
tank go a bit. I started pruning old leaves a bit more heavily as a
precaution and have been diligent about removing any dead/dying
material. I also ceased fertilizing for a while,
but started again when some of my plants started showing pinholes on
their leaves. Since restarting I've cut back to 2/3 of what I used to
dose.
<Sounds wise.>
I won't rule out any issue with organics in my tank, as I have soil
capped with sand and a lot of living biological material, but I decided
to check if a sick fish could transmit the condition. I took two
obviously sick Endler's and placed then with 3 swordtails my girlfriend
was culling (1m/1f older adults and one juvenile). Within a week all 3
were spitting food. The
Endler's were removed and euthanized. Both older fish progressed to the
point where they weren't even trying to eat so I euthanized them. The
juvenile eventually recovered. I then set up a new tank and tested to
see if the recovered juvenile could infect a female Betta and a couple
other juveniles. The Betta seemed a bit under the weather and her shape
got a little funky but never stopped eating and was added to the
original infected tank with the survivor swordtail. Both of the new
juveniles were infected and died. My latest suspicion is neon tetra
disease, or some microsporidia.
<Perhaps, but both are difficult to diagnose without a microscope. Some
fish health vets have stated about half supposed "Neon Tetra Disease"
infections are actually Mycobacteriosis. In other words, you can't
distinguish Pleistophora from Mycobacteria by eye. Really do need a
microscope.>
My girlfriend was initially convinced (or just afraid) it was fish TB
but after taking parasitology this quarter she agrees with my initial
suspicion of this probably being protozoan.
<A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! But since you have access
to a microscope via your girlfriend, why not take a dead fish into the
lab, take smears from the skin, inside the mouth, gill cavity, etc., and
see what you can see. Presumably your university library has Ed Noga's
"Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment". That's the book you need.>
The fact that some species seem more affected is what really makes me
lean that way.
<But isn't conclusive. Trust me. Pleistophora is classically associated
with Neons but has been reported from fish as diverse as Goldfish and
Angels, while Mycobacteria has been reported from just about every fish
someone's made an effort to examine. Very, very few fish infections can
be truly identified to genus level by eye. Whitespot, Velvet, Crypt...
maybe Columnaris, possibly Costia... but not much beyond these.>
One symptom I neglected to mention is that in really sick fish the spine
starts to bend. I've only noticed this in female Endler's, and perhaps
slightly in one Celebes who hung on to life for a long time. The sick
female I used to infect the swordtails was severely deformed by the time
I killed her. I should have taken a picture, but didn't think to at the
time.
Moving forward I fear I'm going to have to euthanize a lot of fish and
hope for the best. That or tear the tank down and start over. My endler
population is now only juveniles, which gives me little hope for any of
them surviving.
<On the contrary, often juveniles survive rather better than the adults
if the problem has been exacerbated by long-term stress or dietary
shortcomings. Definitely worth leaving them be if they're currently
feeding and growing.>
I'm planning on euthanizing all of my Endler's and any currently sick
fish prior to me leaving town for a bit during the holidays. I might try
adding a couple new Celebes after I get back to see if there is any
lingering infection.
<No! If all the fish die, then leave the tank fallow for a few weeks.
That'll break the life cycle of most common parasites. Bacterial
infections are latent in most tanks, even Fish TB/Mycobacteriosis, and
they only become a problem when the fish are stressed, so while you
might run some antibiotics through the tank, there's no real point, and
few work on Mycobacteria spp in particular. Keep the filter happy by
adding a little fish food now and again (the snails will turn this into
ammonia). Then, select fish wisely from the start, adding a few at a
time, choosing species suited to your environmental parameters. If you
have liquid rock water, avoid tetras and other South American fish, but
consider livebearers (particularly the non-fancy varieties with better
health, such as Heterandria, Limia, etc.) as well as Ricefish, some of
the Rainbows, and the hardier/adaptable cyprinids, such as Cherry Barbs
and Danios.>
In a month or so I should know if I've beaten this thing or not.
Thanks again, Samuel
<Cheers, Neale.>
pH Issues in Freshwater Tank,
actually alkalinity, CO2 use...
12/18/11
Hi all,
<Deb>
The Tank: I have had this 29 gallon freshwater tank running for about
3-4 years. The backing is black pond foam with rocks jutting
out. The substrate is Eco Complete. Lighting 2x24W
T5HO. HOB Whisper 30 filter with Purigen and filter wool.
Set it up as planted tank and this past year added a CO2 tank set up on
a timer to run during the day, air stone at night.
<With you so far>
A couple months ago I picked up a pH controller to see about using that
for shutting off the CO2 in case of a CO2 dump. I had one
instance where the I found my fish struggling for air due to that.
<Mmm, too likely CO2 poisoning...>
The day I set up the pH monitor I did a regular water
change. The next morning the tank was milky looking. A
closer look I noticed the algae I had issues with had all died.
I also noticed the pH had dropped below 5.0
<Yeeikes!>
(I don't remember the exact measurement). Before this the pH
of the tank always remained around 6.7-7.0, which I tested with an API
test kit. I cleaned the tank and used a buffer to slowly
bring the pH up.
<Likely a good idea to either add more (like half) substrate or take
a good bit out and replace. THIS is your best source of alkalinity,
buffer>
Water changes are done with tap water treated with Stress Coat,
the tap water pH is usually around 7.2 +/-, and I usually change about
8-10 gallons weekly, the same system I've been using since the tank
was set up. Since the first incident of the pH dropping
significantly I have had an extremely difficult time maintaining
pH.
<Yes... your system, its age... the soluble parts of the decor,
gravel are exhausted>
The only plus has been that the lower pH has killed off the BB
algae and kept it from coming back. Within a couple weeks of the issue
I completely took the CO2 offline, and continued running an air
stone. Since most plants started to do poorly, I have now
switched to a fish only tank with just a few plants that seem to be
doing okay. I have lost 2 fish during this and both were the
following morning after a water change when the pH again dropped
significantly. I've also lost my Amano shrimp (one by one), but
I've had them for almost 5 years, and none died during the
significant drops in pH.
<Crustaceans need available alkalinity AND biomineral concentrations
(mainly Ca and Mg); your low pH denies them metabolically>
This past Friday I did a water change and Saturday morning two
cory's were sort of belly up and the white cloud minnows looked
lethargic. The pH had dropped from 6.9 to 3.94 overnight.
<Deadly>
I spent all day adding buffer in small increments to get the pH
up into the 6.0 area.
<Buffer should never be added directly to the system... ONLY through
pre-mixed, prepared water>
The white cloud minnow quickly revived after the pH hit
4.4. My older female peppered Cory took most of the day to revive
but as of last night was doing well and eating. But. one male
Cory still isn't looking well and I doubt he will recover. I
have a gravity top off feeding to a float valve and now have buffer
added to the top off water to help keep the pH at a normal level.
I've tried smaller increments of water changes, but the pH still
drops significantly over night after the water change.
While I may be able to figure out ways to try and keep it balanced,
I'm at a total loss as to the possible causes for such a huge drop
in pH after a water change, and the cause is what I need to
address. Thanking you in advance for any help you can offer.
Regards,
Debra Piedra
<Time to send you where you will hopefully gain an understanding of
basic water chemistry. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm
the second tray down. Bob Fenner>
Emergency!! Yeast in my tank!! Please help!--
12/04/09
Hi folks!
<Hello,>
Please help me with a tank emergency. I have been using homemade CO2
(yeast method) for a couple of weeks in my planted 75 gal tank. Last
night my new CO2 mix over-bubbled and sent yeast flowing into my tank.
I noticed it almost immediately. As an emergency measure I moved all of
my fish into my 10 gal tank. Yikes!! (about 55 inches of fish in there,
although at their current size it's closer to 35 inches) I added
some Melafix with the fish.
(catching them was very difficult) I did a total water change all the
way down to the gravel, vacuuming as I went. I pulled out most of the
plants and rinsed them off, as well as the rock decorations.
Couldn't pull out the driftwood.
I refilled the tank and let it run overnight. Dosed the tank with
Flourish excel and BioZyme. I have two hang on the back filters,
filtering 750 gals per hour. Today the water looked much better but I
noticed flecks of whitish stuff on the driftwood, and some yeast
bubbles at the water line. I vacuumed the gravel again; another 10
gals, and refilled. Cleaned both filter outflows and changed the carbon
filters in both. After it settles again I plan to swish it around with
a net to try to get as much as possible sucked up into the filter. Then
tomorrow I plan to do another gravel vac.
My poor fish are still crowded into the 10 gal but I don't know
which is the lesser evil. I don't know how long the 10 gal bio can
handle the stress of the extra fish load. But I don't know what
effects the remaining yeast might have on my fish. I haven't tested
anything yet.
Is there anything that will eliminate the yeast?
<Water changes; a series thereof. I'd do 3-4 50% water changes
across a day, and then acclimate the existing fish to the flushed out
aquarium just as if you'd bought them new, the idea being to
minimise water chemistry stresses.>
Have I gotten a sufficient amount out to not harm my fish? What if they
eat some of the yeast as they are feasting on bottom food? Any other
suggestions?
<Can't imagine yeast would be terribly toxic. It naturally
occurs in aquaria anyway.>
You guys are so great! You have helped me a few times when I
couldn't get my answers anywhere else.
Thank you.
D
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Emergency!! Yeast in my tank!! Please help!
-- 12/15/09
Hi again, Neale,
Thank you for your oh-so-quick response! What you all do is really
admirable, and I really appreciate your help.
<Glad to help.>
I wanted to give you a follow-up on my yeast fright for anyone else who
may have been unfortunate enough to have this happen. It seems that I
"dodged a bullet" because I was right there when it happened
and caught it right away. One of the guys at my LFS had it happen while
he was at work, and within 3 days lost $300 worth of fish and all his
plants melted.
<Yikes!>
I lost two fish, and those were a guppy and a Danio that had been
living in my 10 gal when I unceremoniously dumped all my other fish in.
They didn't survive my two Golden Wonder Killifish. (I honestly did
not think they were big enough to eat guppies and Danios but,
alas...).
<Indeed; Aplocheilus are far more predatory than many
assume.>
At any rate I did not lose a single fish to the whole process; even my
Blue Ram is doing great. Nor did I lose a single plant! After my second
water change the tank settled and looked great and tested well so I
moved my fish back in, in groups, slowly acclimating as you suggested.
It is now two weeks later and all is well.
<Cool.>
I didn't even get a case of Ich!
<Good.>
The Praecox and Boesmani Rainbows immediately began spawning behavior
again as if nothing at all had happened. The interesting result of
this, though, is that ever since they were all moved out and back in
again, all of my fish are schooling together every day. (Except the
Killifish) Even the Ram will school with the rainbows and Congo
Tetras.
<Odd.>
So, we have survived and for the time being I have decided against
using any CO2 and am seeing if I can achieve the same great, healthy
plants with Flourish Excel.
<Not all plants need extra CO2, and if you combine slow-growing
bottom plants (like Crypts) with fast-growing surface plants (like
Indian Fern) then CO2 is not essential. The slow-growing plants will
get enough from the water, and the surface plants enough from the air.
CO2 is really only crucial where you have fast-growing, submerged
plants.>
Thanks again!
D
<Cheers, Neale.>
Freshwater refugium, co2 questions 12/07/2007
hello; <Hello.> I own a 125 gallon freshwater aquarium with 12
Corys, 2 bushy Plecos, 8 upside-down cats, 2 pictus cats, 4 paradise
Gouramis, 4 African butterfly fish, and 15 tiger barbs. the tank is
heavily planted with java ferns, swords, water sprite and moneywort.
there are 2 36" compact fluorescent lights on top. I made a 20
gallon wet/dry filter and connected it under the tank with a hob
spillover box. the whole thing has been set up for 3 years now and I
have had no problems to speak of. <OK.> I am now thinking of
turning my tank into a discus tank, as well as adding co2. I have been
doing a lot of research on-line, but I still have a few questions. a
friend of mine has a cool refugium he made and filled with a milfoil of
some type. I was thinking this would be a good step to take before
getting the discus (I plan on first removing the barbs, Gouramis and
butterfly's to make room). <Butterflyfish actually work quite
well with Discus, the two species completely ignoring each other. Your
real problems will be with things like Synodontis and Pimelodus, which
are a bit too active and nippy to really work well with Discus.
Paradisefish (Macropodus opercularis) won't appreciate the
super-hot water Discus like either.> eventually I want 12 discus. my
plan was to simply raise my wet/dry up about a foot and place a 20
gallon plastic bin next to it and use a siphon or spill box to transfer
water. then place my water pump in the plastic bin. is this a good
idea? <In theory, yes. But do remember the more splashing and water
circulation, the more quickly the CO2 will leave the water. High levels
of CO2 are good for plants, but fish aren't crazy about them. In
general, it's often better to focus on either plants or fish. If
you look at the 'Nature Aquarium' type set-ups, fish play a
very minor role, and the stocking level is very low. Discus are quite
demanding fish, and your time is better spent focusing on water
changes, water quality, etc. Discus don't like bright lights
either, limiting your selection somewhat, unless you provide lots of
shade from the very start.> then I want to use a small compact
fluorescent over the refugium and set it to run at night. what are some
good plants for a refugium? <Almost anything. Floating plants that
grow fast and are easy to crop work best, and algae best of all.> do
I have to add any substrate? <Nor for algae of floating plants.>
I would prefer not to. I also want to add a co2 system. does it make
more sense to add the co2 before I get the discus, or after?
<I'd get it first, so that you learn how to keep a constant pH,
which adding CO2 tends to work against. Once you have the perfect
balance of pH with CO2 concentration, and your plants are all thriving,
then get your discus.> all co2 systems I have seen come with a
bubble counter and diffuser. are these things really necessary?
<Yes.> my plan is to just use a cheap foam bubble wand and place
it in the bottom of the bio chamber in my wet/dry. <Won't work.
CO2 is largely insoluble in water, hence the need to maximise the time
the CO2 is in contact with the water. That's what the bubble box
thing does. It stops the CO2 from bubbling up to the surface too fast.
You're also going to have real problems keeping a constant CO2
level if you do it by eye. Adding CO2 at random will do no good to your
plants, since they respond only to steady changes in conditions, not
sudden ones. Obviously adding too much CO2 will harm your fish by
reducing the pH.> will that be harmful to the bacteria? <Filter
bacteria don't like acidic water, so anything that reduces pH is
bad for them. Once the pH gets to 6 or less, they stop working.> if
so, were is the best place to add the co2? <Doesn't matter, so
long as the CO2 level is constant.> will having a refugium light at
night, and plants growing in the day allow me to run co2 24 hours?
<You probably don't want to do this. A 12 hours on, 12 hours off
system should work better. Most plants need a dark period, and
don't thrive under constant illumination.> if so can I use a
regulator without a solenoid. <No idea.> my water is moderately
hard, will I need an RO filter, or will this setup be sufficient?
<Depends on the fish being kept. But as a rule, moderately hard
water with a neutral pH is fine for captive-bred Discus. Wild-caught
Discus are a different matter. In any case, the KH and pH are critical
factors in determining how much CO2 to add to the water, so you will
need to measure those and act accordingly.> I really appreciate any
advise you guys can give. <Cheers, Neale.>
Does Co2 brake (break) <sic> silicon sealent (sealant)
down? "Let's Slow That <sic>Silicon Down,
Give Em A Brake." <Silicone... RMF> 12/5/06 <Hi, Liz
and Brandon> My husband and I are starting a fresh water discus tank
and want to add live plants. I understand we need
Co2 for the plants. <Not absolutely necessary, the correct substrate
and lighting are equally important.> We are running a 75
all glass aquarium tank and want to know if the Co2
will damage the silicon sealant <Will not> and how
much Co2 should be used to keep the ecosphere balanced?
<Check out this link. Anything you want to know about
growing plants can be found here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html>
Thank you, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Elizabeth and
Brandon
Need Help :(... Planted Tanks, CO2, Water
Hardness 7/20/06 This is going
to take a while to write down , I live in an area where the tap water
is 0 KH and GH with a PH of 7 , <Wow! The "Land of
RO?"> I recently got a 350 litre fish tank , I like heavily
planted tanks so decided to do a lot of research about CO2 injection
(The yeast way) <Yikes... need some added buffering capacity...>
having made 2x2 litre reactors and staggering the changing of one every
week whether it needs it or not I think I have roughly the same
constant flow of Co2 entering the tank , The pH dropped on first
injection <Oh yes> so I used Bicarb to increase the PH back to
6.9 , Now the water has a KH reading of about 4 to 5 and a GH reading
of 0 , <I'd increase the general hardness here...> The
problem is this , The PH just wont stay balanced (Not a good thing) I
am getting green water (I think this is mainly due to me fertilizing
the plants on the same day as I put them in) , The plants stream with
oxygen for about 2 hours a day (This is a good thing), Lighting is the
standard 30 WATT and 15 WATT Multilux system that comes with a Trigon
350 (Which is what the tank is) . Now , There's a million and one
articles on the net about starting CO2 but how about stopping it , What
would I have to do . <Turn the count (of bubbles) down by half every
week or so> I love this hobby and I want
what's best for my fish and plants and I also want what is best for
me (The joy of staring into an aesthetically pleasing tank for hours a
day) . The tank has been running around 6 weeks , I used mulm and aged
aquarium water from my other 2 aquariums to jump start it (which worked
really well ) None of the fish introduced have shown any signs of
suffering or illness , All feed normally and squabble and display as
they should . Please send me advise on stopping CO2 (Even if I
don't use it right away) . Or some encouragement as to what I am
doing is ok . The green water is quite annoying and I want that sorted
out , <Can, will be with the use of either a commercial product for
increasing alkalinity (more than bicarb)> But the priority is in
sorting out this PH imbalance , The waver goes from 6.9 to 7.1
sometimes a little lower sometimes a little higher . Temperature of
tank 78-80 (But in this recent heat wave it has risen to 84 a couple of
times, Nothing I could do about it all 3 of my tanks did this) . PS I
have layered the tank with 3 inch of vermiculite under a sand substrate
all plants are doing fine , Haven't added fertilizer since initial
set up as I thought the algae was utilizing this and wanted the
nutrients to be used up so the plants could start outcompeting the
algae and hopefully green water would go , Anyway please send me some
advice and post an article to for people who want to stop using CO2.
<Don't have time, plans for a/the article right now> On
initial set up the bottle ran out of Co2 and the PH climb was
unbelievable (So I know I cannot just stop it and that's that) I
think this was due to me using bicarb to balance the PH and the bicarb
was forcing the water to its own PH equilibrium without the presence of
carbonic acid to keep it in check . <This is likely the case,
yes> You know the KH and GH and PH now , Is it even worth trying to
use with such strange water parameters ? , <Yes, still worthwhile.
Just need to buffer the water to near the pH you're
looking/shooting for> Bah I witter too much thanks in advance for
any help you can give me , Yours Antony Piwczuk one stuck guy :\
<Anton... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwph,alk.htm
and the linked files at top... Look into a commercially available
product to buffer your water near where you want... 7.0... 7.2... Bob
Fenner>
CO2 and the Planted Tank - 03/11/2006 Hi Bob,
<Ray> Last time we met it was at MACNA in DC. Normally
I am a Reef Tank hobbyist however I do enjoy some of the more exotic
freshwater fish and of course, being a reef hobbyist, I enjoy seeing a
tank grow to its potential. So naturally if I keep a Fw tank
it would have to be planted. <Both wonderful world
types> 3 times so far in the past 2 years, I have almost managed to
wipe out my tank because of CO2 injection. <Not hard to do with some
gear, water that doesn't have much buffering capacity> I am
using a solenoid operated needle valve and a 20 lb CO2
bottle. The first time, was rather quickly after I first
installed the CO2 system and one night one of the kids asked my why all
of my fish where in the top corner of my tank. <Yikes!> I was
injecting too much and this was at night when the lights were off (It
is a 55 Gal Tank lit by 4X65Watt PC lighting with a 15 gallon
sump). I theorized that I wasn't so much putting too
much CO2 into Solution, but the plants were not using it as it was dark
and that caused a subsequent pH drop. <Likely so> (Sure enough, I
was right). After many water changes and running air stones,
I only managed to kill very few fish. (Of course my prized
glow in the dark danios did go as my zebra Pleco).
<Ouch!> As a result, I bought a Milwaukee Controller
and I set the solenoid on a timer (only turns on during the
day) and reduced my CO2 stream to about 1 bubble every 5
seconds. (from 1 a second). <Good> About 6
months later same situation. We managed to catch it time,
however it looked like the needle valve was winged all the way
open. I figured it was done by one my cats and wrote it
off. About 2 months ago (after running over a year without a
hitch), same thing again. Here is what I discovered. Junk
builds up in the CO2 line either in the diffuser or airline.
However, I adjust the CO2 bottle to get what I feel is a
good bubble rate. In the third case, the airline blew off of
the diffuser which was clogged (and not visibly either) <Carbon
dioxide is so water-soluble, that such diffusers are not necessary...
small bubbles will go into solution given their release at sufficient
depth... otherwise, there are some neato devices to hold the bubbles
underwater for a while for this to occur> with some white stringy
stuff. The CO2 build up in the line caused it to
disintegrate (This was CO2 Safe silicon tubing or so I was sold)
<Very odd then> until it blew off the diffuser. The
bottle now has no impediment to leaving the bottle and pH drops like a
rock while I am injecting enough CO2 to look almost like a steady
stream. The first time this happened I figured the needle
valve was mistakenly hit, but now realize I am the idiot that opened
it. The second time the airline was blown and it was
obvious. <I see> Now at the advice of some hobbyists, they are
telling me that diffusers are so yesterday and CO2 reactor is the way
to go. <Is one way> I ordered the CO2 Reactor 1000,
which is a big ugly black thing that I don't want in my tank even
though it hangs on the outside. (This way if the line goes I
can't over inject), it will just blow co2 into the
air. I cannot find a single article on the web or magazines
which even suggests that I can place this reactor in the sump, which
this tank does have. <You can> Currently the sump has
2 heaters and the return pump with a filter portion made up of
bioballs. (I actually have an extra skimmer in there but it
didn't work for crap but I thought I would experiment). I can put
the reactor in the sump and the CO2 would be good and dissolved into
the water before it hits the main tank. For some reason
folks on the planted tank forum think this is a bad idea and I
can't think of a good reason except some CO2 loss to before it
makes it to the main tank. AM I Missing something? <Mmm,
not as far as I know, can tell. Your concern, the loss of carbonic acid
through disruption is about it> Thanks y'all and see you at
Saltwater U2 and MACNA. Ray O'Connor <Ah, yes... Looking forward
to it more and more. Cheers, Bob Fenner out in HI>
CO2 injection accident 12/20/2005 Dear WWM crew,
Hope all is well at your end. Unfortunately I can't say
the same, having lost 4 Amano shrimp and 3 guppies -my entire stock
basically in a matter of hours. On the bright side, all the snails
appear to be dead too! The tank is a 20 gallon long, with
2" Fluorite under 2" gravel, planted, 130W of PC and CO2 via
a fermentation canister. The tanks has just been cycled (3 weeks) with
the 3 fish introduced yesterday, and the shrimp 1 week ago (in the
middle of cycling)! <A fore note: I would not use CO2 on such a new
system, nor place shrimp in same> Unfortunately, the fermentation
went out of control and the foam ended up in the tank. I did a 90%
water change with water that was 4F warmer than tank water, straight
out of the faucet, since the fish were floating on their sides, and I
was not prepared for this but felt that anything would be better than
what was in the tank at this point! I added a 3"X4" sheet of
PolyFilter, but that didn't help the shrimp. Two died and two
committed suicide on the carpet... The water was clear after the 90%
change, but hours later is a little cloudy again. What else can I do?
<Nothing more than what you have detailed... other than moving the
livestock ASAP to another established system> Would another 90%
water change stress the plants more than a little bit of yeast and
their fermentation byproducts? <A matter of balance...> As
always, I am grateful for your time and help... Narayan <Sorry to
hear/read of your trials. Steady on my friend. Bob Fenner>
pH and Instability - 10/26/2005 My tank's pH is about as
unstable as I am! <Yikes! Stabilize yourself, first, hon!> I have
a 150 gallon show tank that I converted to a central/south American
planted tank 2 months ago. The source water is unfiltered, treated for
chlorine/chloramine, and has: pH: 7.5, GH: 3, KH: 5. The tank has a day
time pH of 7.8 and night time pH of 8.3, <Yeee-ikes!> GH: 0.5,
KH: 5. How do I stabilize and lower the pH without the normal
non-plant-safe buffers? The substrate is layered 2" peat, <Mm,
I usually recommend keeping peat in a container in the filter instead
of in the substrate.... it can become a bit of trouble.> 1.5"
1/8" quartz gravel, and 2" play sand. I did solubility tests
on all substrates and they were all null. Decorations are all granite,
slate, and driftwood. Lighting is 250w 10000K Ushio MH and 65w 6500K PC
(both stolen from my old reef system). I have a small amount of green
algae on the sand that the Plecos and snail won't touch. Livestock:
1 med. Angel, 1 sm. Severum, 1 sm. Clown loach, 6 lg. Giant danios, 2
sm/med. Plecos, and 1 2-inch yellow/orange snail (unidentified thus
far)...I don't want to put any more in it until the pH is
stabilized but I want to do Kuhli loaches and Discus. Oh, I also
haven't put any plants in yet for similar reasons...as well as
current budget. Please help! <Uhh, are you adding CO2 to this
system, perhaps? Though I suspect the peat may have something to do
with this, I am really starting to wonder what else might be going on.
pH changes with changing CO2 levels, which is why I ask.... Also, is
this tank aerated? 24/7? What sort of filtration? Any other system
details you can think of? Also confused, -Sabrina> pH and
Instability - Addendum - 10/26/2005 Oh, I forgot to include my
temps....night time temp drops to 78 F and day time high (because of
the Metal halide) is 80 F. I feed twice daily from various Tetra,
Wardley, Omega One, and OSI flake foods and occasional Nori for the
Plecos and snail. Thank you. <All sounds good so far.
-Sabrina>
pH and Instability - II - 10/27/2005 Thank you for the
response! <You bet!> I'm at my wits end! <A tough place to
be. Take a deep breath and chill, everything resolves with time, one
way or another. Take it all in stride....> I'm not using
CO2 and I haven't a clue what's going
on. <Nonetheless I still wonder if CO2 might
have something to do with this.... Uhh, have you got a CO2 test kit? Or can you find one inexpensive enough to
purchase just for "the heck of it"? I'm curious as to the
CO2 levels in the morning, midday, and an hour
or so after lights-out. I don't want you to go out and drop several
bucks to satisfy my curiosity for something that might totally not be
the issue, though.> I've done the peat moss thing before without
buffers and had no problems, though source water was a little bit
harder and only pH 7.3. Do you have any more ideas? <Aside from how
the peat may be breaking down, my only other thought is toward that
hefty lighting. Would you try decreasing the lighting for a couple of
days? Maybe to half of what it is? See how that affects the pH, if at
all. Though I still think very strongly that the peat may be a
contributor, here.> I do se a fair amount of gas bubbles in the sand
and the on the algae on the sand directly below the MH. Any and all
help would be appreciated! Branon. <Please do keep me updated if you
test CO2 or try augmenting your lighting - I
would like to see how this plays out. Also confused, -Sabrina>
DIY CO2 yeast spill Bob, HELP!!
Here's the situation in a nutshell. I have a 70g planted tank
running 4 months now (5 zebra danios, 3 true SAE's, 1 Pleco, 6
Serpaes, 2 o-cats). Last night while with a babysitter my 3-yr-old
kicked over the DIY CO2 bottle and this morning
there was a horrible white cloud. We couldn't see the back of
the tank! The SAE's are all gone and the others are not looking
good. What needs to be done to clean up the yeast spill and salvage the
tank? Thanks. Jeff Tucker <Quick like a bunny change out as much of
the water as possible.... toss in whatever PVP containing water
conditioner you have (Amquel, Stresscoat...) in multiple doses...
BobF>
CO2 and SAEs Hi. <Hello.> I set up a 75g plant tank
last week. I have a pressurized CO2 system with a controller
(Pinpoint). I have the controller set for 6.9-6.8 ph and the KH is 4.0.
<Sounds good> I picked up 5 true Siamese Algae Eating fish last
Sunday. They have been doing well until yesterday. They are staying
close to the bottom and not really doing much of anything. There color
is ok and they don't seem to be breathing hard. Based on what I
read the CO2 level shouldn't be too high for them.
<Hmm.... I haven't heard of these fish having any
sensitivity issues with CO2; they are very, very widely used in planted
aquaria that involve CO2 injection, and regarded as one of the most
efficient algae eaters for such tanks. Do certainly check
your CO2 and O2 levels, but I think it would be wise to look for other
issues, as well. Have you checked ammonia, nitrite and
nitrate? Did you quarantine the fish prior to adding them to
the tank? Are the fish showing any symptoms of
illness?> Please let me know if you have any opinion.
<Well, it could be possible that they're just settling into a
new environment, but certainly do be on the lookout for anything else
amiss - test the above levels, fix if necessary. If nothing
is out of whack, you might try stopping CO2 for just a couple of hours
to see how they respond - though I really don't expect that the CO2
is the cause of this (unless it's way off). If they were
not quarantined, I might suspect ich or some other parasite of the
gills, perhaps.> Thank you. Ken <Sure thing - hope
this is just something simple! -Sabrina>
