Indoor pond question for Koi -Liquid Nails/Cinder Block construction 5/10/08
I have 5 Koi ranging in size from 9" to 15" and was using a Rubbermaid horse trough for wintering them.
<This may not be necessary depending on your pond construction and ambient temperature during the winter. Koi can generally tolerate fairly cold water if adequately fed prior and proper precautions taken.  Do check out http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pondsubwebindex/pdmaintwint.htm and related articles/FAQ’s regarding this.>
In summer they go into an outdoor pond. Anyway, they are outgrowing their winter home and I am wanting to build an indoor pond using concrete cinder block (8x8x16") and a pond liner. I would have used wood for the outer construction but I got a large amount of these blocks for free. Can’t argue with free.
<Certainly not.>
This will be built on top of a sturdy level concrete basement floor and the interior will be lined with old carpet before liner is placed inside. The basement temp. is 67 year round and I use artificial shop lights on a timer during winter. I have filtration to handle up to 1200 gallons at present.  My question is... can I use the bonding agent Liquid Nails for concrete to adhere blocks together?
<Yes, it is possible/usable. A good alternative to mortar.>
Or would I have to use mortar? I don't want to have to use mortar if I don't have to. It would be easier in a basement to use the Liquid Nails in a caulk gun. I have used this product outside on retaining wall blocks and 8 years later you cant kick them apart.
<I bet, it is a good product.>
But I don't want a flooded basement either. What are your thoughts?
Sherry
<Do look at the manufacturer’s web site, they do offer an adhesive particularly for these blocks. Good luck, Scott V.>

Re: Pond des., pb.  10/3/07
Thanks very much for your prompt and thorough response. You said you are about to be out of net reach so perhaps this reply is too late but, here's hoping...
<Here for another day>
The only point I didn't understand and would love to hear more about was your comment as follows from my question about the currently built 45 degree walls
>The contractor left long sloping edges that I don't like very much. They slope nearly 45 degrees around the shallow end.
... <Mmm, yes... not good for maintenance, but better to avoid
having the basin crushed, pop-out during coldest weather>
I am not familiar with the concept of Basin crush, pop out from cold weather.
<In areas where the ground freezes down a bit, and there is a good deal of water, lack of compressibility to the soil... the expansion with freezing can indeed crush the sides, even "pop out" the basin or swimming pool...>
I don't want to assume the previous contractor was totally looped, if he had some wisdom for this Denver climate I want to understand it before I tear it down. Are vertical walls more susceptible to bulge later from frost heave than are degrees of slope?
<To some degree, yes>
If so perhaps I will have to research local builders and see if I can get an idea what works locally.
<Mmm, have been to Denver... and see on the Net that the area does not usually get much of a "freeze"... the micro-climate can be of sizable influence as well... if there are large trees, structure near by... this will reduce freezing as well>
I will start contacting local building firms in the mean time (in case yo are away for the time you thought you would be away and cant respond to this follow up) and see if I can learn more about this concept.
Again, my thanks for your time to reply.
David Groover
<Glad to help. BobF>

Re: Pond des., const. for cold weather  10/4/07
Ooops, I have another question already. Well, same as before, if you are still around ... and thank you - again.
<Welcome>
Yes, another day, just go your second response, much thanks.
Yes, Denver is really not that bad in the wither. But it can definitely hit below zero temps for periods of time. Last wither was blizzard after blizzard and weeks and weeks of below 10 degrees, a relative rarity but these are changing times for the weather so one can't tell for sure.
<I see>
I want to know about building with winterizing in mind just because this has become my project and I want to build a good reputation. And that usually comes from building good ponds from a viewpoint of construction, beauty, and maintenance planning, and being good at timely delivery and customer care.
<Good characteristics>
This is Denver where it can get very cold in the winter. You also have quick thaws as the sunshine is very intense here. Therefore one would assume people would want to run their water features year round here. I built a patio water feature for a friend last year in Colorado and she kept it going all year. I asked her to turn off the pump when the water had frozen and it was a very small line, easily repaired if burst so I didn't worry. The pump sat in the feature so it never got solid with ice and I didn't worry about that either.
<Okay>
But now with this size of project and having had to dig up many pipes back east that had broken (the joy of leak detection) I am certainly thinking ahead as to how I want to design this. Both for practical reasons like, is the back-flow valve I would put in what I will likely use, a bio filter, is going to allow me to drain off the water that was raising out of the pond to fill the bio filter, and for potential repair work. Should I install a bleed valve somewhere near the outtake line from the pond for winter clearing of standing water in a pipe before a freeze?
<That or insist the folks leave the system running year-round... this volume, shape should resist freezing... if so>
Or, does water always seek its own level so I needn't worry as it will just reset to the level of the pond anyway?
<Mmm, no... some systems have to be drained... Otherwise other mechanisms employed that resist freezing>
Or, do I use a larger diameter pipe, more than the flow volume, so that when water does start to freeze and expand, it has a little room to move as it were? Is schedule 40 PVC better than the consumer grade PVC as it is a stronger PVC if I am at all worried about freezing?
<Mmm, no... still have to worry regardless>
It seems to me that if I am building a large system like this I should over-build it in a way that I shouldn't have to make the homeowner worry about rushing home to turn it off if there is a freeze warning. Seems kind of silly doesn't it? But I appreciate being able to ask the question and to be reassured.
<Again... I would leave the circulation going continuously>
And this is probably somewhere on the site so sorry to ask but as I have your attention, what is recommended as a depth for water carrying pipes when there will be a freeze? I expect when I dig I will remember as I used to do it so often. Perhaps 12 inches?
<Maybe>
You asked me earlier what the homeowner wanted? Amazingly, he seems to not have discussed this with the former contractor.
<Or vice versa...>
He wants plants and fish and the water fall. He has some dogs which will probably go swimming. I warned him about this as you a are probably already aware, critters sharp claws and EPDM liners don't usually get along very well for very long.
<Errr, I would NOT make a liner-only basin of this size. We installed such features for years... but with shotcrete, concrete and reinforcing mesh over the liners...>
He didn't seem to care though. Therefore I envision this as getting it to the finish line ASAP with winter just around the corner with an eye to good future maintenance in my construction techniques. I see a good design made better but not an overly perfected look to the finished pond as in Japanese garden (which I love) or other forms of more formally prescribed beauty. I envision more of a Buddhist "I am one with nature" beauty that won't die all together form doggy dipping but will also be a part of a natural Colorado canyon landscape idea.
Thanks very much again.
David Groover
<I'd read a bit more before committing to this project. Most all my pertinent efforts are posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm, though some occur with better graphics, editing in books, manuals.
Bob Fenner>

Pond substrate   – 06/19/07
Hi there,
<Howdy>
Ive just built a pond in my back yard and I was wondering if I can use marble chips to cover the bottom.
<Mmm, I definitely would NOT>
Thanking you in advance for any advice you can send me.
Tony
<Having most anything purposely on the bottom of concrete or liner ponds is not a good idea (best to leave bare)... as these become detritus, trash traps... causing troubles in turn (algae growth, a loss of dissolved oxygen...) and all turn indistinctly dark, unsee-able in a short while anyway. If you are looking for some quality of chemistry/physics from the CaCO3 marble chips, it's best to isolate them in part of the filtration, water flow... IF you are looking for their look, better to stain, embed material that will get you this in the permanent matrix of the bottom. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pond, design...  6/6/07
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your emails, wisdom and suggestions.
<Welcome>
Please let me know if it's more appropriate for me to pay for your consultation services and guidance. I would be happy to do so. I don't want to take advantage of your helpfulness which I both need and want. My goal is to fix the situation as I had hoped to the first time.
<I understand, and no charge for chatting over the Net>
What guidance can you provide regarding creating something like that filter at Philips in La Jolla?
<Mmm, plenty... is posted on WWM>
Is that possible/smart in my situation and safe for fish and frogs? Do you know anyone who can do that, that we can hire?
<As stated... I would visit with the local Koi Club, look through the "Yellow Pages", have folks come out... make up your own mind>
I know someone who did pond related work for me years ago who might be able to follow whatever guidance and direction you might provide but if you have recommendations for qualified people, I would prefer that.
<Have been "out of the loop" for so many years I no longer have useful input/referral>
Or, if you know of any good people who can do the work, including the filter etc. (I thought I had good people this last time when I "upgraded" so I'm obviously not the best judge in this area.)
Both physically and time-wise I definitely need to hire someone to do the job right.
<Okay>
What type of filter/pump/system would be safe for frogs and fish that would also be low maintenance? You mentioned a screened filter, etc.
Thanks, Bob.
With appreciation,
Shendl (Shane)
<... Please... read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
and consider checking out the local library for pond books... Bob Fenner>

Pond (what did Maynard G. Crabs and Krebs say to the question of "Work"?)   5/23/07
Dear Robert,
My pond needs help. It was redone a year ago and the system is not working as we had planned/requested. We need a system that will not cause injury to the frogs, fish, etc. that inhabit the pond. So far, that part has been a disaster and it looks like we will be deconstructing the pond and redoing part or all of it. Do you do pond construction? Consultation? Suggestions?
<No longer any actual work... but some consulting... Is this something we might chat up over the Net? If so, please do send along your queries, statements, graphics if you'd like, to the Crew@WetWebMedia.com address. Bob Fenner>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
Sincerely,
Shane

Questions, low maint. pond   5/23/07
I¹d love to know more about creating or having someone create a critter friendly pond that doesn¹t require much maintenance (by me). Here are some photos of what it looks like now.
<These are mimes... didn't come through. Try as attachments next time>
The pump and filtration system will be removed shortly by the people who installed it and so I¹ll be basically starting over. Are there pumps and systems that won¹t suck frogs and fish into the system?
<Mmm, yes... some very nice units with built-around screens are available...>
Also...If you no longer do pond construction, do you have any referrals of trustworthy humans that do?
Thanks, Shane.
<For which area geographically? Much of this can be done by an individual... with time, reading... Bob Fenner>

Pond... design...   6/4/07
Dear Robert,
I wrote to the other email address but never heard back. Don¹t know if it reached you or not.
<We've recently moved the site, WebMail...>
I¹m hoping you can provide some guidance and referrals that would allow me to create a pond that is super safe for fish, frogs and other critters in the area. You mentioned that there are screened pumps/filters that should help with that.
<Yes...>
I¹m also curious about the low maintenance system I read about at Phillips of La Jolla.
<Ah, yes>
Our pond now has an existing system but kills fish and frogs, plus it leaks. We¹ll be taking the equipment out and need something that will do the trick (safe,
low-maintenance, etc). Hiring someone to do the work would be our first choice. Advice, referrals, suggestions?
Thanks so much.
All the best,
Shane
<... Where are you located? Have you read through our Pond subweb?: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
Bob Fenner>

Pond bottom drain installation... Well, construction period    5/23/07
I am planning to build an approximately 8,000 gallon pond with a 3-tiered waterfall that has an approximate 7' head height.  I have been advised to install a 1/2 HP minimum 4000 GPH at the skimmer and a 4000 GPH at a bottom drain, which would go to an Aqua Ultima II filter system and then to the falls.  The skimmer pump would go directly to the falls.
<Mmm, a bunch to state here re seeking out, knowing what you're doing re pump, filter choices here... You want to thoroughly investigate your choices... as filtration is the biggest source of trouble and ongoing expense in pond keeping... The Sequence line of pumps I would especially take a glance at...>
Is there a design, plan or pictures of how this might be put together?  I could use all the help I can get on installation.
<? There are many... again, you can end up spending a few hundred dollars PER MONTH on operating such a water feature... Either do the studying yourself... There are standard works in print re all aspects... My book parts on such are posted: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
from design, construction, stocking, maintenance... or hire folks who you trust know what they're doing... to put in a system that will work... You will find I am a HUGE fan of liner technology... you can run all the plumbing internal of this... including up and into the falls, making a structural trough... For now, read. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Kirk

Help me, please! Patio pond designs   5/14/07
Hi Crew! My mother and I are moving from a house to a townhouse, where the only place we can have our fish is on a deck. Right now they are in-ground in a large pond, but they would have to move to a smaller above-ground pond.
We want to build an L shaped pond that would fit in a corner, large enough to fit our fish (we have 4 koi and 2 comets) and also serve as extra seating. My mom and I would most likely be building this on our own. Luckily we already have a pump, liner, bubblers, etc., but we need help on what to do to start out. We want to use wood, kind of making a planter box pond. Can you help us? Or if you can't give extreme details, can you direct us to someone that could? We're moving in a few weeks and really don't want to leave the fish. Please help ASAP! Thanks for your time and consideration.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/pondDIYCalfo/diy-pond.htm
and the linked files below. Bob Fenner>

New pond... design/iatrogenic problems   12/3/06
Hi,
<Hello there>
I've done a bit of research but have not found the answer to these questions.
We've recently installed a small pond between 2 patios in our back yard in the Pacific Northwest.  It measures approximately 8' x 12' and is 20 inches deep
<Mmm, too shallow... will be too variable in temperature to be stable... hard on livestock>
with a thin layer of small gravel in the bottom.
<Is this intended to be a biological system? You don't want gravel at the bottom... as you will learn>
It also has a small waterfall for circulation.  We've added pots of water plants, lily pads, floating lettuce and hyacinth and some others.  We bought 12 goldfish and they seem to be enjoying the pond immensely.
<You will need to bring all this life "in-doors" during the winter months...>
  My first question is about feeding.  The pet store clerk and the water pond clerk both said that they don't feed their fish.
<See WWM re... no feeding during times when temperatures dip/stay below about 55 F.>
It increases the nitrate levels in the pond, plus the stores sell them really fast.
<...>
  So-do we need to feed them or will they feed on the plant material and what ever algae grows in the pond?
<See WWM...>
My second question involves our new pond inhabitant.  A rather large bull frog just appeared yesterday.  He seems to enjoy the pond too.
<And your fish>
Because it is the end of September, I'm wondering if he plans to hibernate here.  As I mentioned, the pond is only 20 inches deep with a little gravel.  Is that enough depth?
<Not enough...>
  Plus there is no mud for him to burrow into.  I hope he's had his fill for the year, because I don't want him eating my fish.  
Should we "encourage" him to leave?
<I would, yes>
Any help you can give is much appreciated.  We're new to water features and want to do it right.  I suppose we need to figure out about testing the water too.  What is the correct ph balance we should try to maintain?
Thanks for your help.
Sandy
<I strongly encourage your reading of what is posted on ponds on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
From the top down... including pond design... Yours will be problematical due to its size, shape, the gravel... Bob Fenner>

Pond Overwintering, not reading   8/19/06
Ok well I live in  Pennsylvania where it is pretty cold and the pond will freeze. How deep does it  have to be.
<Mmm... depends on what you intend to keep in it, where it's located relative to "structure", whether you intend to employ countervailing strategies to prevent it freezing over/all the way to the bottom... 4 to 6 feet likely...>
Also is there any specific brand of food I should feed them or what  should I feed them to get their fat up for the winter.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdmaintwint.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>

Making a beach   7/7/06
I have a property on a very small lake where the lakefront is currently quite dominated by weeds and lily pads.  It has been a beautiful setting for years, however, I am thinking about making some changes due to the addition of a son to our family.  I would like to convert a small section of the lake front to a beach for wading and playing.  I have accepted the fact that cleaning up the current growth is just going to be about manual labor.
<Mmm... if a really big area, and draining is possible, do look into lowering the water level and using "power tools"... a back-hoe, skip-loader can/will do this job in a jiffy... And you may well want to fabricate/build a "safety bench" area to keep the sand back, make the swimming area... at this time>
  What I am looking for is advice on how to create the beach area.  I am thinking about a space about 10-15 feet in width that will go about the same distance into the water.  Could I use a PVC pond liner as a base (keeping in mind that it will have to be installed underwater) and cover that with a mixture of pea gravel and sand?
<Mmmm.... can/could... Need to know more info. re the make-up of the basin... substrate presently. I strongly encourage your having some contractors in the field come out and bid this job, if nothing else to glean possibilities from their input. I would not use a liner here... unless it were to help in construction of a concrete shell over the intended area>
Is there any other solution that might come to mind.  I would appreciate any help you might provide.
<A basin within the basin is what I would make... along and outside the edge of the existing. Bob Fenner>

Designing interior water features   6/9/06
Hi Robert,
<Emilee>
I am a designer who really enjoys designing indoor water gardens/water features.
I have a important question.
Is there a market for interior landscaping?
<Yes... over the years we were in business, we designed and built out several>
I feel there is lack of interest sometimes to market these. Is there people who are all generally interested in water falls in their homes?
Which State?
<I imagine most all large urbanized areas>
Water Features are rare and luxurious.
<Less rare all the time>
How is your point of view towards indoor water features?
Regards,
Emilee
<Most every garden and indoor setting can benefit from them. Bob Fenner>

So many questions! Biological pond design, construction    4/14/06
I am building a new pond.  I expect it will be under 3000 gallons by  the time it is complete.  It will have a waterfall with about an 8 ft. head  (from
bottom of the pond to top of the falls).  So far I have purchased the  liner (EPDM 45mil.) and the pump (Sequence primer 6000).
<Good products>
I need direction  on where to go next.  (1)  Bottom drain.  A friend tells me I do  not need an integrated bottom drain but can use an suction-type model.   True?  
<Mmm... bottom drains are great to have... your next pond or the one after will likely have... after you've done "other ways" of periodically draining the lower/est region/s otherwise>
If so, what do you recommend.
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdplumbing.htm>
(2)  Second, since the  Sequence has an integrated basket strainer, do I need a skimmer?
<Mmm, yes... perform different functions actually... and much easier to use a surface skimmer, clean this... rather than the strainer (intended really only to keep large objects out of the volute)>
  My  concern is that the skimmer could allow air into the pump - not good!
<Uh, no and no>
If I  need a skimmer, what do you recommend?
<See WWM...>
  (3)  Pump housing/cover.   What do you recommend for this?
<See WWM... a housing is best, above or sub-grade... with provision for disallowing flooding...>
(4)  Filter.  I am contemplating  purchasing the Aquadyne Bead filter because of its efficiency and I suspect I do  not need anything else to go with it (such as a waterfall filter or
mechanical  filter.  Does this make sense?
<Yes, and no... I would use additional filtration here... or leave space for retrofitting, adding later... which you will likely do>
Thanks for your help!
Liz in Lakewood
<You've got a good start here Liz... keep studying, taking good notes for now. Do try to find, get out to a local "koi club", "aquatic garden association" meeting, to see other folks ponds, get their direct input re what they did, would do now... Bob Fenner>

GARDEN POND Magazine !! 8/24/05
Hello,
  I am very sorry to bother, but I am hoping you might can help me with this problem. I am desperately looking for some information on a magazine that I can't find anywhere. I want to subscribe, but can't find out how. It is called GARDEN POND and is a Quarterly release. I have seen it on eBay, but it always gets by me. I would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks Tom
<Ah, the owner/publisher has recently changed their name... to Bowtie (from Fancy pub.s)... see here: http://www.bowtieinc.com/corporate/
Bob Fenner>

Planning a pond and large reef system in southern Cal.
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<Joe>
I live here in San Diego, and am in the process of planning out 1) a freshwater pond, and 2) a marine reef aquarium.
<Ahh, Carly Simon's "Anticipation" is coming into my sound-memory ego... but that Bono song on the Bose head-set is pervasive>
The pond is project one, to be executed shortly,
<"Keep digging...">
and the
reef aquarium, to be executed about a year from this summer once I feel that knowledge acquisition is complete and the finances are in order (300 gallons, double sided in a thick wall, with the entire wall above and below dedicated to the aquarium and its maintenance... somewhat expensive).
<Worth it>
Anyway, the questions:
1. Which pond/koi places in and around SD do you endorse?
<Mmm, been out of the biz for too long, but I do know that I would attend a few of the local Koi Club meetings and ask around there... get bids... look at the folks work... Not too hard to "be your own general contractor here... lots of good folks... e.g. KRC for rock... to help>
2. Which places do you endorse for reef/saltwater aquaria?
<Ron Elander at Octopus' Garden is honest and competent. Victor at VJ's also on Convoy, seems to know what he's doing and is a pleasant fellow. Some of the folks at Pat Hurley's Aquatic Warehouse and Fountain's know what their stuff... and Chris at Vet's Pets out east...>
3. Are there clubs you find value in?
<Oh yes! As a matter of coincidence, the local marine club is meeting at our house in Mira Mesa this coming Tuesday... and the fellow that heads it up (Maurice Bullock) and I are heading up to L.A. to visit folks in the trade on Thursday... You're welcome to come with us>
4. Finally, do you operate a business here?
<Did so with many wonderful friends for a couple of decades... but retired from actual "work" in 94...>
Joe Kraska
San Diego CA
USA
<Bob Fenner>

New pond and reef system in SD
<"Keep digging...">
Several days with a concrete saw and a jackhammer to dig out the previous owner's work...
<Ughh, no fun>
no taste in ponds, I say (plain gray? and you shaped it like that? and plumbed it how?!) but I secretly suspect he consulted a structural engineer for the concrete.
<Heee! Like Point Loma H.S. demo... school was said to be earthquake unsafe... company went BK in trying to break-up, remove concrete...>
Now that I know quite a bit more, I suspect this one screams "concrete guy" and not "pond guy". Lots of
people probably try to save money that way, eh?
<Ah, yes, or largely blind ignorance>
Anyway, I'm building the pond, every last piece, by hand. Myself.
The level of fanciness I desire simply isn't in the budget otherwise, and I'm really enjoying working with my hands.
<Yes!>
And the price per ton over at KRC ain't really that bad, as you say. Funny you should mention, was there for the first time today. :)
<I have a very strong intuitive sense>
I was wondering which stores you'd endorse for fish and supplies, not contractors. I find myself in the unbalanced position of knowing more than I'd care to about the various online services, and basically nothing about my local area except what I can find in the yellow pages. :)
<I see... unfortunately just individuals at, not actual stores... RonE at Octopus' Garden, Ed at Aqua Fauna, Chris at Vet's Pets, Judy (Hoffa) at Fountain's... livestock varies, but they will know re...>
><Oh yes! As a matter of coincidence, the local marine club is meeting at our house in Mira Mesa this coming Tuesday...
Tuesday, say you? When? And open to visitors?
Joe.
<Please see here: http://www.sdmas.com/
actually... just did, and there is no meeting notice... though there is contact info. to MauriceB... Yes, open to all... Seven PM (or slightly earlier) on... in Mira Mesa. Bob Fenner>