Zeolite, as a pond filter media... pressurized   11/11/09
Would a 100% Zeolite filter interfere with biological filtration as it removes ammonia?
<Mmm, minimally in actual practice. What seems to occur is that detritus, perhaps even spaces amongst the Zeolite serve as substrate for nitrifying microbes in time; sometimes a very short period of time>
The Zeolite filter also filters down to 1 micron
<? Really? Is this a specific product?>
as it removes ammonia. Could there be any problem?
<Again, doubtful>
We have a 750gal Koi pond with a very large biological filter. We are trying to keep particulate matter from entering the biological filter and going back into the pond.
Thanks,
Dick
<Mmm, most folks avail themselves of some mechanism ahead of their biological filter... a mechanical screen/sieve like media (e.g. "batting material"), and/or a sedimentation chamber that has a manual or automated draining (cleaning) process. Are you familiar with these? Bob Fenner>

Re: Zeolite  11/11/09
Thanks Bob for your quick reply. I have pasted in my communication with the Zeolite Company.
<Okay, will look>
I have read about Matalla use in stages. I intend to try it by converting a cartridge filter.
<Much better than cartridges... they clog way too easily, quickly...
Expensive to maintain, and cost even more per gallon of water moved through them!>
I'm a designer in the pool business
and enjoy this process.
<Ahh, I was a contractor installing water features for several years. And a longer-time content provider in the Nishikigoi industry period>
We were just concerned that a prefilter of all Zeolite would interfere with the biological filter.
<Not a worry I assure you>
The concept of down to 1-3 micron filtration (similar to DE) with Zeolite plus removing ammonia in ponds is intriguing.
<Mmm... I really don't think this is a practical approach... Diatoms/Bacillariophyta "work" due to characteristics of their skeletons... being "holey" and chemical inert (principally composed of Si02)... Zeolite Clays... I don't think will really work. Ammonia is better addressed biologically through complete, vigorous circulation moving all water through an "open" media.>
It is now available for swimming pool filtration as a replacement in sand filters. Dick
<Interesting... Will take a look/see at this as well. Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Begin forwarded message:
RE: CONTACT ZEO, INC.
> Yes zeolite is wonderful filtration media for Koi ponds if it is installed correctly. Ammonia is harmful to all fish see link below.
> http://koiclubsandiego.org/library/ammonia.php
> As for sales literature it is not mass marketed due to the lack of  potential market size.
> As for converting a cartridge filter to a sand filter, I am not sure how that could be accomplished. I can only recommend replacement ratios of ZeoSand to sand filters that have manufacturers recommended fill rate.
> So if you are creating your own filter to use ZeoSand then I am afraid I really can't suggest/recommend the proper fill rate other than to say that most sand filters media bed rarely extends past half way in the tank.
> Thanks
> Todd
> Subject: Re: CONTACT ZEO, INC.
> Thank you for your quick reply. I need to know specifically:
> 1- Is Zeolite a good and safe mechanical filter for Koi ponds? I can find no sales literature.
> 2- Will removing too much ammonia harm the fish?
> 3- I can convert the cartridge filter to a sand filter. Where do you see a problem?
> Thanks for your indulgence,
> Dick
Todd B Hamilton wrote:
>> ZeoSand may be substituted for sand in any filter designed for use of sand
>> as its filter media. It will replace sand at a 50% ratio. (Example if a sand
>> filter requires 200 lbs of sand you will need only 100 lbs of ZeoSand).
>> You can't just replace your cartridge with ZeoSand. You must have a filter
>> designed for sand as its filter media. Also follow installation instructions
>> concerning cleaning and wet-fill of ZeoSand prior to filtration.
>> http://www.zeoinc.com/zeosand4.html
>> ZeoSand will remove ammonia but it will eventually load up with the ammonia
>> at which time you will need to refresh the ZeoSand by soaking it in a 10%
>> salt solution for at least 4-6 hours, then rinsing all saltwater from media prior to returning to filtration.
>> http://www.zeoinc.com/zeosand5.html
<<Folks aren't going to do this... good gosh! BobF>>
>> In a swimming pool this would be accomplished by backwashing to waste. In a
>> koi pond you may not be able to do this so it must be done manually if your
>> desire is to continue to remove ammonia. If not it will continue to filter
>> other debris until cleaning is necessary.
>> If you have further questions feel free to contact me at anytime.
>> Todd B. Hamilton
>> V.P. of Development, ZEO, Inc.
>> thamilton@zeoinc.com
>> zs: ZeoSand Filter Media
>> comments: I can find only limited info on Zeolite filters for Koi pond
>> mechanical filtration. I maintain a 750gal Koi pond. At present I am using
>> a 50sqft cartridge filter before the biological filter. Can I replace the
>> cartridge with Zeolite? Will it remove too much ammonia? Would it be
>> adequate as a mechanical pre filter? The filter is about 1' x 3'. How much Zeolite would I put in?
>> Thanks,
>> Dick

Re: Zeolite... referral... Read re gen. pond filtration methods   11/11/09
OK. I would not be using the cartridge filter. I would be replacing it with 100% 1-3 micron Zeolite. The filter runs are longer than sand even though sand only filters down to 20-35 microns. Sounds counterintuitive doesn't it. The Zeolite can of course be recharged to remove ammonia, but if it weren't, I still think it would be a good prefilter. You like the gradated Matalla better?
<One L>
I'm looking forward to your evaluation.
Thanks,
Dick
<My input is archived here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
BobF>

Re: Zeolite  11/11/09
Thanks for all the info. I was particularly interested in your evaluation of what the Zeolite Company has to say and offer. I will read all your articles.
Dick
<... again; the physical and chemical properties of Zeolites make them not useful for substitution in DE filters, and far less suitable in sand filters... and not useful at all in place of cartridge elements in cartridge filters. Read. BobF>

Re: Zeolite  11/12/09
Oh Bob,
<Dick>
I am doing a very poor job of communicating and a worse job of understanding. Probably it's age and lack of knowledge.
<Maybe I'm just not quite as awake as I think I am...>
I would not substitute Zeolite in a DE filter. I would use a sand filter with Zeolite instead of sand because of the finer filtering qualities, longer runs, and removal of ammonia.
<Again... due to being more/too three dimensional, "melting" vs. silica/tes, I don't think Zeolite/s are practical... but try them out for yourself and see>
This is done regularly for swimming pools.
<... biological systems are very different. Among other aspects, they're variably reductive (as in RedOx...) and their acidity will dissolve the clay>
I really want to know if this is good or bad for a Koi pond and why.
<Their NH3/NH4OH capacity is not limitless... they're not catalysts, but absorbers...>
I am having difficulty understanding and putting together your 2 responses directly below.
I have to hand it to you, you are very indulgent and courteous in this matter.
Dick
<Sorry for being so daft, but I am wondering if we're starting "too far forward" in this conversation. Have you actually ever kept a biological pond? BobF>

Re: Zeolite  11/12/09... still not reading...
What I'm talking about is Zeolite crystals. They are permanent and able to be regenerated for ammonia removal.
<... Dick... people/humans are NOT going to do this... Please don't write... READ. I have a book in print through TFH publications on ponds that would give you a good grounding... or just peruse WWM>
If they weren't regenerated, they would still be a very good filter agent--infinitely better than sand.
<...>
You finally saw that I don't know much about biological systems. My son does. I'm trying to work out a pre filter to minimize junk in the biological filter and produce super clarity to the pond water.
I find this all very interesting and plan to learn more.
Dick
<Good. B>

Re: Zeolite, in rel. to pond filtr.   11/14/09
Well Bob, It looks like I do have one more question. After your suggestion to READ and not WRITE, I made an extra effort to find info on your website about mechanical filtration in ponds--could not find anything.
<I suspect Bob was hoping you'd start off with articles like this one:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/pdfiltmedia.htm
>
I have also been all over the internet. My original purpose in contacting you was to find out about Zeolite filters and polished pond water.
<The two things aren't related, and I suspect that was Bob's point here.
Zeolite removes ammonia; that's it. "Polishing" water is mechanical removal of silt particles, and perhaps in the case of ponds UV sterilisation to kill off any floating green algae ("green water"). Zeolite isn't usually economical to use except for very small aquaria where the pH is sub-6.0 and so biological filtration isn't possible. In a pond, you'll get far better ammonia remove from the biological filter and the photosynthesising plants.
Zeolite eventually becomes saturated with ammonia, and typically in just a few weeks. It's recharged by soaking in brine, and obviously you don't want it to be recharged in the pond because all it would do is release the ammonia again! Plus, over a few weeks it gets clogged up with silt and bacteria (saprotrophic ones, not just chemoautotrophic ones) and this reduces its surface area. Again, this is why you have to replace zeolite:
even if you recharge it, it eventually loses the optimal surface area to volume ratio it has when fresh, and becomes functionally worthless. Folks will happily sell you zeolite, but it really does have a very limited range of applications in fishkeeping. Hospital tanks where strong antibiotics are being used, pH 5-6 freshwater aquaria, that sort of thing.>
That was it. It also seemed logical that reducing ammonia and keeping particulate matter out of the biological filter was a plus.
<Yes, these are both good aims, but they aren't related concepts.>
Perhaps you could lead me to a website or file addressing this concept.
<See above.>
I sense that you grow weary of our communication. I won't be taking up any more of your time.
<I fear Bob never wearies of communication... literally thousands of e-mails get answered here every year by a crew of maybe a dozen people.
What does get tiring, I admit, is answering the same questions over and over -- and in my case that usually involves sick Bettas being kept in teacups by undergraduates! But I digress. Reading before writing is always a plus, but generally, we're always happy to hear from people, no matter what. If we didn't like it, we wouldn't do it.>
I thank you for help. It has lead me on to more education. I will read all of your articles.
Dick
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Zeolite  11/14/09
Now that's a real good answer to my question.
<Happy to help.>
Thank you for being so complete and thank Bob for not just giving up on this matter.
<Will do so.><<I never give up. RMF>>
You provide a very good service.
<Not sure "service" is the word, since we don't get paid for this, but we're certainly happy you appreciate what we're trying to do here.>
Dick
<Cheers, Neale.>

Using carbon to remove an unknown chemical. Pond filtr. – 04/22/09
Hi, I have a pond that has been in “use” for over a year now. the problem is that I didn’t feel like working with it previously do to an illness that I have, so essentially it was left for my family to care for. Due to mosquito issues my family added a floating chlorine realizing device and several dosings of bleach last summer. I now wish to work with my pond and have tried adding some paradise fish to it. The paradise fish look horrible only minutes after being added and I’m unable to locate them the next day. I have also been having some problems with duckweed and salvia that I have contributed to the sun before I noticed the problem with the fish.
So here’s the condition of the pond. Ammonia and nitrites are 0, I didn’t test nitrate yet because it wouldn’t account for the speed of deterioration in the fish that I have been noticing, and the API test is kind of a pain. PH is high, about 7.5-8, but again, while not ideal for the paradise fish, I don’t see it killing them. The duckweed is mostly dead, but there are a few that are staying green, and there are a few aquatic insects currently alive at this time. I’m thinking that there is some chemical in the water that is causing the fish death, and that the duckweed and insects are only surviving in small numbers. 99% of the duckweed is dead, and I’m guessing that there should be a lot more insects then there are, but only a small number are surviving. As to whatever may have been released by the floating chlorine releasing device or something extra in the bleach I unfortunately don’t know.
<Mmm, possibly just the excess chloride... easy to remedy...>
There’s even a possibility that something else might have been added to the water last year, and forgotten about, so no one mentioned it.
My plan was to use carbon to remove anything that might be left.
<Nah>
Do you think carbon would be enough to remove an unknown toxin? I was thinking 30lb, pond is approximately 160-180, three uses of 10lbs each or so. i will be making my own addhawk
<Heeee! Ad hoc?>
 filter for this purpose so if you have any suggestions on dosing I can probably accommodate it.
I would eventually like to release some Xiphophorus birchmanni which would enjoy the high ph, but I’m afraid to until I start seeing some better results with the paradise fish. Thank you for any help, Christian.
<Much cheaper and surer to dump most all the water out and just re-fill it anew. Bob Fenner>

Pond Dried Up... Oh no!  Holding tank set up, op.  10/23/08
Hi, I'm contacting you for this reason: my pond dried up. I had no clue it did until I returned home from college one evening and my mom asked me to help her collect the fish. They were very easy to catch, if that gives you a hint of how shallow the water was. My mom knew of my love of fish and asked me if she could use my 30gal tank to hold a small portion of the fish chosen (possibly a max of 30). They're all small specimens, and only a max of 10 fish are at 1". I'm disappointed in my mom because she doesn't even know the type of fish she bought. I don't know either because I'm more of a saltwater enthusiast. My mom thinks they're bass and minos so I'll just go with that.
<Bass eat minnows, so mixing these fish together isn't exactly recommended.>
I have two power sweeps (yes I know they will get stuck sooner or later) that I'm willing to donate to my mom that get 270gph and I was thinking of getting an Emperor Bio-Wheel (400gph) so that I can use filter media (e.g. carbon to make the water clearer).
<Carbon doesn't make water clearer. Carbon removes dissolved organic chemicals, and in freshwater tanks is almost always redundant provided you perform regular water changes. Concentrate on mechanical media (which removes silt) and biological media (which removes ammonia). Unless there's some overwhelming reason to get a hang-on-the-back filter, I don't recommend you choose one; standard external canister filters are better value and more flexible, and don't force you to use proprietary filter modules. Sponge filters are also very useful when maintaining small fish for short periods.>
I also will be using reverse-osmosis water, and all the other correct electrical devices (e.g. heater).
<Why are you using RO water? Remember, pure RO water is lethal to freshwater fish. If in doubt, stick with tap water treated with dechlorinator. This should be reasonably close to the water these fish were inhabiting, assuming your water supply gets the water locally. Do not use water from a domestic water softener.>
I'm going to purchase an array of fish food so that the fish will have a varied diet.
<Minnows and bass obviously eat different things, but wet frozen bloodworms and mosquito larvae should work well for both, at least while the Bass are small.>
Water changes weekly (keep pH at 7... it's a safe number for freshwater I'm guessing).
<Preferred pH actually depends on the species in question, but pH 7 should be fine for these species.>
I wanted to know if allowing the water to cycle 24hrs would be good enough to then introduce the fish?
<You can't "cycle" a tank in a system without ammonia. By definition, cycling is how ammonia-consuming bacteria get established. There are products on the market (like Tetra SafeStart) that supposedly "instantly" cycle a tank when used correctly. At least some of these (like Hagen Cycle) are of questionable success in this regard, but better than nothing. In any case, your best bet is to grab some live biological media from another filter on an established tank and put into your chosen filter. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm >
We're keeping them in buckets for now outside (very hardy to those conditions; very different from saltwater :D). And I wanted to know if I could keep the tank with a bare-bottom?
<Fish aren't wild about bright colours underneath them, so plain glass or white plastic don't go down well, and the fish get scared easily.>
I know the algae will help within the substrate at the bottom of the tank but we're only doing this for the winter so that when our pond gets back to its regular size the fish will be reintroduced into their natural habitat.
<I'd scatter at least a bit of smooth silica sand or gravel. Just enough to cover the glass.>
Thanks for the help,
Jeff
<Cheers, Neale.>