bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to eradicate disease     Darrel's go    8/25/13
Hello -- I have a 55 gallon QT tank.  Many fish have successfully gone through this enroute to my 1000 gallon main display over past two years.
<Speaking for just about everyone at WWM - we're jealous that you have a 1000 gallon show tank.   Just mentioning that.>
I fear that the latest two fish I purchased at a LFS that I don't usually frequent had something wicked that they died of and have left bacteria / nasties or whatever in this 55 gallon  tank.
<Yeah, that is a vexing problem for all of us>
Without going into that == would it be the same outcome to drain the tank down and wash all PVC pipes and plastic plants inside with vinegar and wash inside of tank with vinegar wipe  and then rinse -- and then let it all completely dry to eradicate any nasties that may be lurking inside?
<That depends entirely on the types of pathogens you're fighting - and we don't know that>
I really do not want to work with bleach to eradicate -- so I was wondering if any let's say flesh eating bacteria / uronemia, etc could live and make it through  being completely dried out?   I wouldn't think so.  Thanks!
<Wait - aren't we making an assumption on the disease that will fit the treatment?>
<I personally have no problem with all the techniques you mentioned.  In your position I'd use beach in situ to sterilize the entire system.  I'd drain the system and fill with fresh water then I'd add 2 cups of chlorine beach (maybe three) while the entire system is running so that the chlorine reaches the filter, tubing, accessories - anything that makes contact with the water (except the filter material which would have been removed and discarded anyway).  I'd let that run for 2 days and then drain it, fill with rinse water for 4 hours, then drain that and let it dry for 14 days.   Meanwhile I'd take any hiding tubes and accessories and I'd wash then in fresh water and vinegar and then sun dry them for 3 days.>
<This process would kill virtually every possible pathogen, bad guy, hitchhiker or insurance salesman in the entire system>
<The next thing is plastic plants.  Probably a bad idea.  If the plants you're talking about are the ones I've seen -- take a close look at the assembly:  Formed stems end in little stubs and then formed leaves with little sockets pressed into each stub …. Just imagine all the nooks and crannies and protected surface areas in that assembly.  Every place that a bad bug can hide and any kind of medication carried in a water column will tend not to follow.   I agree it can have a therapeutic effect on the fish and look better than any assembly of plastic and PVC tubes -- but for quarantine purposes it's about the same as a piece of coral or ocean rock -- it's everything we try to avoid in quarantine.>
<Now you mentioned that you didn't want to use bleach and I went ahead and told you to bleach everything.   The thing is this:  Rinsing in fresh water OR air drying OR washing with vinegar OR bleaching would probably work.  ANY ONE of the four would have a good chance of clearing your system - and here's that theory:  We have no objective evidence that most of the common pathogens don't exist in our closed systems or are not already on the fish when we get them.  The notion that we are ERADICATING the pests is often a fantasy.  What we're likely doing is controlling the population of them to the point where the fish's immune system can handle them.  This is a virtual certainty with Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ick) and the principle would hold true for most of the rest of them.>
<Anyway … with all that as background - I have no patience for disease.   After the first time I saw a Yellow Tang that was dying of Crypt try to swim itself to a cleaner shrimp in hopes of relief … I made up my mind.  At the first sign of Crypt I go directly to the Nuclear Option: copper  and between quarantines I use all the techniques listed above.  No one should have to suffer like that when we have the tools to try to prevent it.  -- That's also why I got divorced - but that's another story!>
(What do I do with the cleaner wrasse that is the resident inhabitant of the tank that was not
affected seemingly by the deaths of the latest two fish that died very awfully?  Shoot him?  Just kidding....LFS says they will keep him for me ( my usual LFS -- not the one with the nasties)..... if I did all this -- then brought him back in to the 55 -- would whatever was in the tank that was possibly spread to him as a carrier == could it be reintroduced?  He is seemingly fine 5 days post deaths of the two fishies with the nasties.
<Sigh - this question flashes me back to my early days.  What you have to do now is quarantine the quarantined fish.  If the LFS exposes him to a common water column then he could spread a bug for which he is a carrier (their problem) or ACQUIRE a bug from them and BECOME a carrier (your problem).   This is why I now seem to have 7 various quarantine systems laying about the house and garage -- and why it's so convenient that Wal-Mart sells 10 gallon tank SYSTEMS for $29.>
<My advice is to quarantine him for 6 weeks (not a minute less) and then introduce him to the main tank.   I'd say that he's done his part for King and country and now should be taken off the front lines of battle>
<Lastly … how about some pictures??  Take a couple dozen photos of your 1,000 gallon tank.  Don't forget the insides, tops, lights, sumps, plumbing, timers and filters, etc. and put them in a Word document with maybe some details of how it all came about?  Brand names you've liked and what you haven't?  Send them to us and we'll see if we can't smash it into a web page that we could out on the site.   It's not like you'd get paid for it - but you could tell your friends that you're a "published author" and you name show up on a Google search.  Consider it?>
More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to eradicate disease   RMF's req. input   8/25/13
<<Darrel has asked me to render another opinion here>>
Hello -- I have a 55 gallon QT tank.  Many fish have successfully gone through this enroute to my 1000 gallon main display over past two years.
<Speaking for just about everyone at WWM - we're jealous that you have a 1000 gallon show tank.   Just mentioning that.>
I fear that the latest two fish I purchased at a LFS that I don't usually frequent had something wicked that they died of and have left bacteria / nasties or whatever in this 55 gallon  tank.
<Yeah, that is a vexing problem for all of us>
Without going into that == would it be the same outcome to drain the tank down and wash all PVC pipes and plastic plants inside with vinegar and wash inside of tank with vinegar wipe  and then rinse -- and then let it all completely dry to eradicate any nasties that may be lurking inside?
<That depends entirely on the types of pathogens you're fighting - and we don't know that>
<<Mmm, rather than vinegar, our companies used chlorine bleach; diluted...>>
I really do not want to work with bleach to eradicate -- so I was wondering if any let's say flesh eating bacteria / uronemia,
<<Uronema; the protozoan?>>
 etc could live and make it through  being completely dried out?   I wouldn't think so.  Thanks!
<Wait - aren't we making an assumption on the disease that will fit the treatment?>
<I personally have no problem with all the techniques you mentioned.  In your position I'd use beach in situ to sterilize the entire system.  I'd drain the system and fill with fresh water then I'd add 2 cups of chlorine beach (maybe three) while the entire system is running so that the chlorine reaches the filter, tubing, accessories - anything that makes contact with the water (except the filter material which would have been removed and discarded anyway).  I'd let that run for 2 days and then drain it, fill with rinse water for 4 hours, then drain that and let it dry for 14 days.   Meanwhile I'd take any hiding tubes and accessories and I'd wash then in fresh water and vinegar and then sun dry them for 3 days.>
<This process would kill virtually every possible pathogen, bad guy, hitchhiker or insurance salesman in the entire system>
<The next thing is plastic plants.  Probably a bad idea.  If the plants you're talking about are the ones I've seen -- take a close look at the assembly:  Formed stems end in little stubs and then formed leaves with little sockets pressed into each stub …. Just imagine all the nooks and crannies and protected surface areas in that assembly.  Every place that a bad bug can hide and any kind of medication carried in a water column will tend not to follow.   I agree it can have a therapeutic effect on the fish and look better than any assembly of plastic and PVC tubes -- but for quarantine purposes it's about the same as a piece of coral or ocean rock -- it's everything we try to avoid in quarantine.>
<Now you mentioned that you didn't want to use bleach and I went ahead and told you to bleach everything.   The thing is this:  Rinsing in fresh water OR air drying OR washing with vinegar OR bleaching would probably work.  ANY ONE of the four would have a good chance of clearing your system - and here's that theory:  We have no objective evidence that most of the common pathogens don't exist in our closed systems or are not already on the fish when we get them.  The notion that we are ERADICATING the pests is often a fantasy.  What we're likely doing is controlling the population of them to the point where the fish's immune system can handle them.  This is a virtual certainty with Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ick) and the principle would hold true for most of the rest of them.>
<Anyway … with all that as background - I have no patience for disease.   After the first time I saw a Yellow Tang that was dying of Crypt try to swim itself to a cleaner shrimp in hopes of relief … I made up my mind.  At the first sign of Crypt I go directly to the Nuclear Option: copper  and between quarantines I use all the techniques listed above.  No one should have to suffer like that when we have the tools to try to prevent it.  -- That's also why I got divorced - but that's another story!>
(What do I do with the cleaner wrasse that is the resident inhabitant of the tank that was not
affected seemingly by the deaths of the latest two fish that died very awfully?  Shoot him?  Just kidding....LFS says they will keep him for me ( my usual LFS -- not the one with the nasties)..... if I did all this -- then brought him back in to the 55 -- would whatever was in the tank that was possibly spread to him as a carrier == could it be reintroduced?  He is seemingly fine 5 days post deaths of the two fishies with the nasties.
<Sigh - this question flashes me back to my early days.  What you have to do now is quarantine the quarantined fish.  If the LFS exposes him to a common water column then he could spread a bug for which he is a carrier (their problem) or ACQUIRE a bug from them and BECOME a carrier (your problem).   This is why I now seem to have 7 various quarantine systems laying about the house and garage -- and why it's so convenient that Wal-Mart sells 10 gallon tank SYSTEMS for $29.>
<My advice is to quarantine him for 6 weeks (not a minute less) and then introduce him to the main tank.   I'd say that he's done his part for King and country and now should be taken off the front lines of battle>
<Lastly … how about some pictures??  Take a couple dozen photos of your 1,000 gallon tank.  Don't forget the insides, tops, lights, sumps, plumbing, timers and filters, etc. and put them in a Word document with maybe some details of how it all came about?  Brand names you've liked and what you haven't?  Send them to us and we'll see if we can't smash it into a web page that we could out on the site.   It's not like you'd get paid for it - but you could tell your friends that you're a "published author" and you name show up on a Google search.  Consider it?>
<<I do concur w/ Darrel's statements re the use of bleach and quarantine. Specifics re both can be searched, found on WWM. Bob Fenner>>
Re: More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to eradicate disease     8/27/13
Hi -- thank you for the nice response guys -- I always get giddy hearing from Bob ( had emailed WWM once before when setting up the main display and had a question and Bob responded back) .  I concur with your assessment ( the LFS that sold me the dead fish says to use Formaldehyde??). 
 <Mmm, very toxic (fumes)... I have used many gallons over the years... but want to go on (official) record very much cautioning against home/hobbyist use. Too dangerous... Even (Cl) bleach is really... should only be used w/ open windows, on a warm, breezy day; or better, outside...>
 I don't want to use bleach though  -- I don't want the offgassing smell , possible splashing and bleaching of my nice things and possible residual bleach in water if I don't do it right.   I maintain that because there  is a hang on the side filter on this 55 tank ( it is not drilled)  -- I can achieve a complete dry factor and use that to kill all possible nasties --  if I just use vinegar  and then fresh water rinse and then air dry for some time
<Yes; I would (then) go w/ just the simplest organic acid CH3COOH (vinegar)>
 ( sorry -- did not mention I had a hang on side filter -- so there is no tubing where possible water could remain untouched) .  The usual LFS is not afraid to take the cleaner wrasse back -- and so will bring him there in mean time. I will try to get some pics to you of my main display.  Should I email them to same email address?
<Yes please>
  It is not a 1000 gallon tank though --it is a 1000 gallon system:  a 265; (3) 150's ; coral frag tank and 300 gallon sump all plumbed together.  All tanks are built into a wall with catwalk access behind the scenes.  I like this better - it look like one  big tank the way it is framed -- but have the benefit of having different biotopes.  Not sure if you would think it is as cool anymore -- but if so -- can try to send pics.  I don't think anyone in St Louis has anything like this -- it is pretty amazing and beautiful.  It is in my home office.
Sincerely, 
David S. Sahaida
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: More re: bleaching a tank versus completely air drying a tank to eradicate disease     8/27/13
thanks Bob -- good hearing from you.  I will send pics of our set up soon.  take care
Sincerely, 
David S. Sahaida
<Thank you David. B>