Stupid?... actually more like lazy, at least on the Net... Chondrichthyan nutr.     1/16/07
Sorry I have been searching what vitamins I should put in the tank for my round ray and bamboo cat shark. Cant find it.
Please help. Also where do I buy?
Thanks Michelle
<? Please learn to/use the indices/search tool... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/sharkfdgfaq2.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>

Shark / ray tank... too small, under-mis-filtered...  11/20/06
I am working on a tank which I plan to put a bamboo shark, and a ray.
<Mmm, the principal predators of rays (and sharks for that matter) are sharks...>
I have a few questions for you.  first of all, my equipment consists of a 220 gal tank,
<Will be too small a volume...>
3 skimmers, two rated for 75 gallons, one rated for 120 gallons (this will allow me to stagger cleaning between each unit) for filtration I am running a Fluval FX5, with a large amount of bio material in it.
<This won't work... insufficient filter capacity, too likely a too-large source of metabolites of nitrification>
  I also have a few powerheads, and a large AquaClear hang on filter to use for chemical filtration only.  I am using 4 300 watt heaters because the room can be a little colder at times.
<Such submersible heaters should be placed in a tied-in sump... too easily broken by cartilaginous fishes>
  I am keeping the temp about 77f.  I have about an inch of livesand in the bottom of the tank, and it is mostly empty of decorations, and rock, other than a few tunnels I built in the center of the tank, leaving as much outside swimming room as possible, and as much sand bed open as possible.
<Good>
I am feeding frozen squid, mussel, and a few types of frozen shrimp.  I am feeding them every other day, do you believe this is sufficient?
<Yes>
I was trying to figure out what I could put in the tank (one or two fish)  to add a little to look at.  I was thinking about a red and a black lion, but I have read some things saying these would work, some saying they wouldn't.
<Too likely to "poke" or get run into by the Chondrichthyans...>
if not, could you recommend something I could use to add a little to the tank, to seem less empty.
<See WWM re...>
is there anything I am forgetting? also could you recommend any good books about keeping these two creatures?
Thank you for you time.
Daniel
<All posted on WWM... Please learn to/use the indices, search tool to find what you're looking for. Bob Fenner>

Urolophus halleri (Round Ray), not eating, not tropical  9/18/06
Hey Crew,
  We got a Cali ray that came in to our store last week on Thursday. The ray hasn't eaten yet. It seems like he doesn't want to eat. We have tried frozen squid, krill, gulf shrimp, and live ghost shrimp. None of them have worked. She swims all day and all night and rest for a little bit. Should the ray be eating by now? I've looked at some of the articles on your site and nothing helped. We have been hand feeding and stick feeding.
  Thanks,
  Ben
<... is this fish in "hot water?"... See here: http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=2580&genusname=Urobatis&speciesname=halleri
Subtropical... likely needs to just be placed in cool/cold water and allowed to acclimate. Bob Fenner>

Shark/Ray Compatibility   1/4/06
Hi, <Hello> I have a 220 gallon tank 72x24x36 I would like to put a Dasyatis sabina and a Banded Bamboo Shark in it...  Is this a good match and
size tank? <No> I have two 175 gallon Rena canister filters and a Prizm Pro Deluxe Protein Skimmer, 300-Gallon Capacity...  Is my set-up adequate? <No, the Prizm Pro in my opinion will not effectively handle the huge amount of waste that is going to result from the keeping of these animals.  The Bamboo Sharks do attain lengths of over three feet.  Whether you are aware of that I don't know.  I wouldn't mix the ray with the shark.  Even though rays are not aggressive and will usually swim away from danger, in a closed in system they could very well sting/whip the shark.  I suggest you do some research on these animals on the Wet Web Media and/or others before attempting to do this.  Best to leave these fish to public aquariums or expert aquarists that have the means to keep these animals alive.
Thanks for your help <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Shark and stingray question  9/5/05
hello,
I have a aquarium(6'x 18''x22'') and i was wondering if i could house a shark or stingray in that size tank. It would later be moved to a pool in about a little more then 2 years. Thanks a lot.
Sincerely,
coolfishboy aka Ben
<Nope is the short answer. Please read... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/index.htm
See the pretty blue words? These are links to files with the information you seek. Left click on them and read. Bob Fenner>

Re: Call him, them Ray/s, of Sharky but don't crowd them  8/30/05
  Only one ray not two if not do I stand a chance in a 265? If not could I get a coral catshark (Atelomycterus marmoratus) in place of a ray since they don't grow past 27 inches And possibly the same tankmates as long as they are large and thanks for a quick reply.
<... for cartilaginous fishes, their tanks need to be at least twice their width at adult size and three times their length... Bob Fenner>

Re: Call him, them Ray/s, of Sharky but don't crowd them  9/1/05
    Only one ray not two if not do I stand a chance in a 265? If not could I get a coral catshark (Atelomycterus marmoratus) in place of a ray since they don't grow past 27 inches And possibly the same tankmates as long as they are large and thanks for a quick reply.
  <... for cartilaginous fishes, their tanks need to be at least twice their width at adult size and three times their length... Bob Fenner>
  So that means a custom  made at least 4' X 6' minimum. I was getting  a little confused cause the Shark and Ray book had said a 180g on some of the ones I was interested in was OK, so I stood a chance w/220 or 265  So I'll look to get a custom of 4'X6'........Thanks again   
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

"Death Curl" in a coldwater ray
Bob, I have a 4 inch California ray that has been in my 90 gallon for about 3 months.  Just recently he started swimming up and down the walls of the  
tank restlessly, and popping up out of the water.  Is this common?  
<Yes, very>
More
importantly he is now curling the side fins every time he lays on the  substrate.  
water quality is excellent, but I have not been adding  iodine.  Is this the cause of his behavior, or is there something else I  can do to save my favorite
aquatic companion.  Thank you, Dan  Getten    Salt Lake City, Utah
<Mmm, is the tank chilled? Is the substrate fine, soft/rounded? I do encourage the periodic use/supplementation of cartilaginous fishes diets with vitamins, iodine/ide... Please see WWM re shark and ray nutrition, disease. Bob Fenner>

Re: "Death Curl" ray systems, health
Thanks for your fast reply Bob...no the tank isn't chilled but it is set at about 75 degrees.  is this too warm?
<Yes... the water this species is found in is never this warm... more like 55-65 F.>
Are trace elements not enough as far as supplements?
<No... please read on WWM... Please. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again for your info.  Dan

Re: California Ray spots, ignorance
Hey Guys,
Just another quick question about California Rays. Mine just developed two small brown spots on the other side of his disc. Ever heard of this? If so, and remedies. Also what is the best temperature for this species? Thanks. 
Dan
Salt Lake City
<Don't write, read... on WWM. The questions you've been asking, need to know, are all posted there. Bob Fenner>
 

Ray goiter pic? Looking for image for new reef fishes book Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:36:08 -0800 (PST) Bobster... I have a note here to follow up with you on a pic of a Ray with a goiter you mentioned having. Can you check for/scan this image and send it along to Jas/I? thanks, mate Ant- <Yikes... I think the only such pic I/we have is one a querier sent to WWM... I suggest we place this msg. and hope for a response. BobF>

sting ray goiter picture WWM crew, A while back I wrote to you about our California Ray's goiter problem.  It's getting a lot better with the addition of Seachem's Iodide treatment just over the last few weeks.  Anyway, I thought your readers might be interested in seeing what goiter looks like, since it seems to be such a common problem with elasmobranches.  This picture is of Norma the Ray at the height of her goiter problem. <Thank you for this pic and progress report Sherry. Good to hear of the improvement. Bob Fenner>

Lionfish In Trouble 
Hi everyone, 
<Hi! Scott F. at the keyboard tonight!> 
I have just bought a lionfish 2 days ago and put him in my 200 gallon tank. 
<Yikes! No quarantine? Please do read about this simple procedure and utilize it in the future!> 
I also have had a small Snowflake Eel, 10 pounds of live rock, and have ordered a Blue-Spotted Stingray and a Banded Catshark. 
<Yikes!!!! RED ALERT!!! PLEASE, PLEASE cancel this order, unless you are 100% certain that your "Blue Spotted Stingray" is Dasyatis kuhlii, which is an infinitely better choice for aquaria. The typical "Blue Spotted Stingray" found in the hobby is usually Taeniura lymna, which is one of the worst species you can have! In fact, even Dasyatis, hardy though it may be, is not recommended for a tank under several hundred gallons. This tank is simply too small to support this fish-not to mention, the tankmates that you are considering. I'd be similarly wary of the Banded Catshark. Really belongs in a very large, dedicated system. Sorry to "attack", but I really want you to think about the high potential for failure with both of these species. Only by "just saying no" to these types of marginally adaptable species can we, as hobbyists, prevent the needless importation and death of such animals...> 
My problem is that my lionfish hasn't eaten since the day I got him (and that was at the pet shop). Also his side fins seem to shake and he has barely moved from one spot. Any suggestions would be wonderful. Thanks. 
<Well, the behavior that the Lion is showing can be indicative of a number of things, ranging from shock to the possibility of a parasitic disease. You did not mention water conditions, so I'll assume that all environmental parameters are acceptable. Many Lionfish do go through a periodic "shedding" of body slime, and appear to "cough" and "shudder" during the process, only to return to normal behaviors after the process is complete. Before you rush to treat the fish, I'd observe him a couple more days to see if other possible disease symptoms manifest. If it looks like the fish is declining, or displaying other symptoms, such as rapid respiration, white spots, etc., do consider the possibility that you may be looking at a parasitic illness. Read up on the WWM disease FAQs for more on the diagnosis and treatment of such maladies. Observe carefully, and take decisive action when you make a positive ID as to what you are dealing with. Treatment of any disease, by the way, should be performed in a separate tank. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Sharks in stingrays in a small tank - 3/15/04
I have an 80 gallon saltwater tank; it has been set up for about 2 years. I had a Blue spotted sting ray, and a black banded cat shark. <Much too big in the long run> The sting ray we have had for about a year. I don't know how old he was. The shark was about 2 months old; he was born into our tank from an egg. All of a sudden the sting ray just died no signs of foul play, only a small green mark on his belly. The shark died 2 days later. <Sorry to hear. Your description does nothing to implicate anything concrete> I could tell something was wrong with the shark a couple of days before he died, he was swimming erratically, and bumping into things, as if he couldn't tell which way was up or down. <Electrical current or magnetic field, metal poisonings, inadequate water chemistry, many things could be the issue here or a combination of them> The water tested fine. <Means nothing to me> The only thing I could think of is, it has been a while since I changed the filter in the wet dry, (about 2 months) apparently the filter needs to be changed every 3 weeks, I did not know that. <Hmmm.....maybe but not entirely convinced> If that is the reason why then why didn't my blue damsel die or my maroon clown fish? <That is easy. These are typically very hardy fish. Cartilaginous fish are very sensitive to water quality.> Looking forward to hearing from you. <Not sure what I can tell you here. Please read through our ever expanding section on sharks and rays for more information on nutrition, water quality needs, tank sizes, etc. Sorry I couldn't be of more help ~Paul>
Cindy & George

Shark and ray pond
I'm making a shark and ray pond.  The dimensions will be 8X4X2.5 with an arc on one end (the skinny one) being 2 feet.  How many gallons is this?
<Let's see... assuming that these dimensions are "square", and multiplying all in feet... I get 80 cubic feet... multiplying 80 by 7.5 (there are about seven and a half gallons per cubic foot), it looks like about 600 gallons>
The pond will be somewhere between 3-4 feet of the ground in its special room.  The reason being that for the 4 foot side opposite the arc will be a viewing window a little small than 4X2.5 and I'm not sure how thick to make the glass.  What would you suggest?
<Read through the "custom aquarium" (on the marine index) and "pond construction" (on the pond index) FAQs files on WetWebMedia.com>
The glass will be part of the wall like a regular window that allows viewing of outside such as your yard, but this will allow you to view the pond.  The idea came upon me while at a public aquarium.  Many of there beautiful displays are set up this way.  
<Yep, have built some myself>
The substrate will be fine white sand (it is actually sand for a sandbox) will this work?  
<Possibly... hopefully this is NOT silica... you want more round, soft carbonaceous substrate... like coral sand... which is sometimes sold as play sand as well... e.g. "Southdown" by Home Depot.>
I would prefer to get tropical species.  I plan on having only 1 shark maybe adding another later on down the rode.  The Species I'm deciding from are Coral Catshark, Marble(d) Catshark, or Whitespotted bamboo shark.  Will there be any
problem with keeping any of these with rays.
<Not likely>
If so Pls tell me which one(s), and the problem(s).  Only one ray is to be kept in the tank as well.  I'm not sure which species, because so many sites say different stuff about rays.  It is a real headache when it comes to researching rays.
<Keep studying... the headaches will go away when you understand what is factual, useful and which is noise>
  Just when I thought I found the right ray, Urolophus halleri, which is said to be a tropical ray... I reed some of your FAQ's about them and you the a cool water species.  Where you referring to a different species?
<Please see fishbase.org here... a cool water species>
or did I read it right.  If they are cool water species what commonly available species would you recommend for my pound?
<Actually, none that are regularly offered... Lymna is about it and has a dismal survival record. My advice is to contact a specialty marine livestock supplier like Marine Center (.com) and ask them to "special order" you a tropical species that doesn't get too large>
Also Is a clean-up crew even possible with these species or should i forget the idea?
<Not desirable or necessary... the animals will too likely be consumed... Your aeration/circulation, filtration and regular maintenance (water changes, gravel vacuuming) should take care of these arenas>
If so what clean-up fish/crustaceans could i put in the tank to help.  I was also thinking of a moray eel later on.  Would it be a thing to look into?
<Possibly... if the shark, ray are small enough to allow its presence metabolically. Bob Fenner>

Re: shark and ray tank
Hi, I just recently bought a 180 gal salt water tank and I want to put a shark and ray in there.  But I don't know what kind of equipment I need to get started.  The tank came with a pump and that's really it.  Do I need a sump, skimmer????
If you could help with any suggestions of where to start that would be great. Thanks
<Much to say, learn here. Please start reading: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sharks.htm
and on to the "Shark System" FAQs, where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

Sharks/Stingrays
Hi:
I'd like to have a tank with 1 small shark (i.e. leopard) and or one small stingray. Is it difficult to maintain. What size tank would you recommend (length etc..) Is there a species that would remain relatively small and hardy? Any suggestions, comments, insight, it is too difficult?
<You can read Bob's thoughts are sharks here and please follow on to the subsequent FAQ files, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sharks.htm -Steven Pro>
Thanks, DT

Sharks and Rays Book
Did Scott W. Michael's book on sharks and rays come out yet? 
<Yes... about a half year back>
I searched amazon.com and there were two books by him on sharks and rays, sharks and rays of the aquarium and reef sharks and rays. On your faq's I read that there was a re-do of a book, 
<It's the former title>
I was wondering if one of these is the new book he just made or if these are both older books and the new one he is going to publish soon still hasn't been published. Thanks a lot.
<Take a look on Microcosm's site... Link on WetWebMedia.com's links pages. Bob Fenner>

Shark and Ray Question
Dear Mr. Fenner,
I'm recently very interested in buying a shark and a ray for my aquarium. I bought a 360 gallon aquarium and is all set up already for the past 2 1/2 months.
<Good to wait>
I would like to know if you can help me know which species of sharks is best kept in an aquarium and also which species of ray. Can they be kept together? 
<Some, yes>
If not, can you suggest any other fish/invertebrate which I could keep in this aquarium together with them? 
<Most any that won't be eaten...>
Also, can eels be placed in the same aquarium?
<Yes...>
I know that sounds like many questions, but I'm having a hard time getting the information from a resourceful place. I'm a researcher doing my Zoology
Master's in studying both rays and reef sharks, and the aquarium is placed in my home.
<Come out to the ASIH meetings, the Elasmobranch division...>
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Regards,
Marcela Araujo
<Let's keep chatting here. Bob Fenner>

Question about sharks
what do you recommend for someone interested in a shark/ ray tank? 
<A very large aquarium, lots of bottom room... study to ascertain compatible species, feeding... BIG filtration, pumping...>
how well you the live together? 
<Some eat each other... others get along fine>
I'd prefer to get both in the smallest available species possible, without going into the realms of the rare or fragile. I read about dwarf sharks a few years ago and I was wondering about your personal opinion on them.
<Please read over the sections on our site, starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/sharks.htm
and the FAQs sections beyond. Bob Fenner>
Thank You For Your Time,
Chris

55 gallon startup with stingray
I am about to convert a 55 gallon fresh to salt. I am going to put sand on the bottom (any recommendations?) I am looking to put live rock in 1/3 of the tank and just a few fish. I really want to purchase a ray for the tank.
1. Do you think it will get along with the live rock.
2. Will it have enough room to swim around?
Thanks so much. Michael Bunnell 
>>
Be very careful here... Most all the tropical rays sold in the marine aquarium interest have absolutely dismal survival records... And a fifty five with nothing else but soft substrate is too small for any of these species...
Bob Fenner

Feeding Blue Spotted Sting Rays I purchased (2) Blue Spotted Sting Rays on Thur (2-17-00) Today is (2-21) They have yet to eat. I offered ghost shrimp, tiny shrimp, cut up shrimp,  gold fish I do understand it's a difficult species to keep in captivity; however I  think I'm doing all I can do. They appear to be on a hunger strike (losing  weight) I'm afraid they may die. Can you please help with any suggestion(s)?  Tank Capacity: 100g part sand part crushed coral. Should I remove all the coral and replace with sand? >> Yes to removing the coral, replacing with sand... and hoping for the best.... These animals don't generally live for any period of time in captive hobbyist systems... I wish the trade wouldn't offer Taeniura lymna period. They may/might eat... so do keep trying, offering them these foods daily... Bob Fenner

Re: Feeding Blue Spotted Sting Rays my sting ray is DIEING.... HELP... water is fine they haven't eaten in days like i said earlier.. one is thin wrinkly.. the other is in his floating on side stage.. still breathing.. what can i do.. help...!!!!!!!!1 >> >> Did you receive my previous response? Unfortunately there is little that can be done for these specimens... or this species in captivity... Blue Spotted Stingrays almost always are short-lived in captivity... One of my endless campaigns in the marine aquarium interest has been/is to warn people/consumers of such realities... Do not buy these stingrays... They almost never live in captivity... Bob Fenner

Rays
Could you give me some info on the Californian Stingray like how big it grows and your opinion of keeping it in an aquarium.
Thanks 
>>
"The" California Stingray? Do you know which particular species? There's a Butterfly, Round, Diamond and Pelagic... smallest to 22 inches across, largest to 5 feet! They're all cold/cool water, and will therefore require a chiller... Need LARGE quarters... At least five times their length... a soft substrate...
Anyway, skipping ahead to my opinion... Poor candidates for captive aquarium use... and no worse than even the tropical species... like the Blue Spotted (Lymna taeniura)... They all rarely live for any period of time in small volumes.
Bob Fenner