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Eviscerated sea cucumber 2/1/19
Sea Cucumber for my 11 year old, please help!
2/24/15 Angler and Cuke 9/21/11 Re: Fish Compatibility Question Actually 'And Conch
Eggs Too? Conch & Cuke sel. - 04/17/10 Compatibility of fishes: Adding Cukes or Nudi's to an
established system. 4/16/2009 Tigertail Cucumber, Is It Ok In A Refugium?
10/23/09 Yellow or Tigertail Sea Cucumber and Tuxedo Urchin, sel. 11/15/08 Hi again! Ok, so I have another question: Which is better for my 24g? A Tigertail or Yellow Cucumber? <Um, neither? 24g is just too small for these animals (imo). I did some looking around on your site, and apparently these are some of the best (attractive/display) cucumbers to have in a tank. Right now, I'm leaning towards a Yellow Cucumber due to its small size, but because of the lack of water volume, I'm worried that it may be too toxic for my aquarium to handle. <That, and, these animals have feeding requirements that make them poor choices for small tanks.> Also, will the Potter's Angel (which I mentioned in an earlier post) pick on it? What about a Tuxedo Urchin? Would it bother one or both of these animals? <Likely not... but again, Urchins are usually better off in larger tanks... with more to feed on. In small tanks they also tend to cause trouble by knocking things over.> And how compatible would they be with my Red and Blue Reef Tip and Blue Banded Hermit Crabs? The only one of my hermits that has ever caused any sort of problem is my Blue Banded Hermit, which ate two rather unhealthy (they had moved under a small rock for some reason and stayed there) Florida Ricordeas and left my healthiest one alone, despite all of them being right next to one another. I've had it (the crab) for a while now and no other problems with it have ever arisen. Does this mean that as long as the cucumber is kept healthy my crab will leave it alone? Or is it best not to risk it? <I would look into animals better suited for "Nano tanks"... though 24g would be considered a "large" Nano tank (oxymoron, I know), you're still quite limited in what you can keep in such a small tank. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/smmarsysstkgfaqs.htm to start.> Thanks so much for your help! <Best, Sara M.> Sea Apple = A-Bomb 03/25/07 I am completely
heartbroken and devastated. All the fish in my main
saltwater tank (135 gallons) were just killed by a Sea Apple that
eviscerated while I was at work except for three fish.
<Unfortunate, but all too common. I am sorry for you
loss.> Only two paired Ocellaris Clowns and one Blue Green Chromis
survived. Fifteen others sadly died, including four cleaner
shrimp. Apparently this happened when my local electric
company temporarily terminated electricity and my equipment turned
off. I came home to find the devastation, dead fish
everywhere and the worm-like insides of the Sea Apple were all over the
tank. <Such is the risk of keeping Holothuroids in a
populated tank. Evisceration is really more of an
eventuality than a risk. It most likely WILL happen and at
an inopportune moment.> By the way, there were all kinds of
unidentified creatures in the tank that I have never seen before, some
were crab-like, others had shapeless forms and were about a half inch
wide, what are these things? <Various Polychaete worms, and other
crustaceans most likely. Impossible to say for certain
without a photo, even then exact I.D. is hit or miss.> Fortunately I
had a second tank where I put the three fish (24 gallon
Nano). They seem to be doing OK. <This is a
good thing. Why don't you have a Quarantine tank?>
Unfortunately, I have a pair of established Tomato Clowns that
immediately started hassling the Ocellaris' and the Chromis so I
caught one of the Tomato Clowns and put him in a ventilated breeding
unit to isolate him from the others. I am working on
catching the other which is hiding in his Bubble Tipped
Anemone, I hate to have to do this but I want the stressed
fish from the other tank to be able to relax and de-stress without
being chased all over the tank. <Another reason to have
the quarantine tank.> Do you think this is a good idea?
<Would be better to have a quarantine tank. Go purchase a
10 gallon tank, and a heater and filter. Place some
established media from the Nano that you have into it's
filter. Then place your stressed fish into
it. This is much better than hassling an established
environment.> I need advice on what to do now with the main
tank. <Siphon out the remaining viscera, and about 70 %
of the water. Over the next few days do a 20% water change
each day. This should dilute the poison. Make
sure that you get ALL of the dead animals. They will be
broken down as part of Nitrification, and will pollute your tank.> I
will remove the dead fish but what do I do with the corals, they seem
to all be fine, will they survive? <Hard to say. Time
will tell.> Should I remove the corals immediately to plastic
container with chemically adjusted RO water? Or should I
risk putting the corals in my 24 gallon Nano? <I would
follow the water change plan firstly. Then if the corals
start to degrade I would consider moving them. You don't
want to do anything drastic that might crash the Nano too.> Would
that possibly poison the water in the Nano? <I would
think that the increased bioload would cause problems.> I also have
two Crocea Clams, will they likely survive? <Again time
will tell. Please see above Re: Water Changes.> After I
remove the corals and snails or anything else that is still alive what
should I do with the water? I would assume I should
completely drain it, is that correct? <Please see
above. I would NOT drain all of the water.> What about
the live rock and live sand, what should I do with them? How
will the worms die and how should I get rid of them? <Not really
sure what you are asking. I was under the impression that
these worms were already dead. If not, then NO LEAVE THEM
ALONE. They are GOOD for your system, and are present in all
healthy systems.> Are these worms toxic themselves and if they
remain alive in the rock after the cleanup are they harmful to the
tank? <No. They are your
friends. Likely came out because they sensed carrion which
is what they eat.> After a complete water change which I'll
assume I should do, how soon can I replace any fish and
corals? <Do not do a complete water change. I
would do one large change and then a few days worth of 20% changes, and
then a weeks worth of small 5-10% changes. Start adding fish
one at a time and QUARANTINE them. I would say one fish
every two weeks.> Should I treat the tank in any way? Do
I have to completely recycle the tank? Could you please take
me through the proper steps I should take at this time, I need
help. <If you don't change all of the water at once
you should be fine. There are obviously some creatures that
survived.> When I eventually pick myself up and slowly add fish back
to the tank I vow to always listen to the advice of the WetWebMedia
crew. You guys know what you are talking about.
<Thank you for your kind words.> My story is probably a typical
one; I asked about Sea Apples from a LFS and was told that they were
harmless filter feeders. <More or less true, unless you
irritate one.> I was attracted to their bright colors and figured I
could trust the store owner. I didn't do my research and
found out a few days later through your site that Sea Apples were
potential killers and should be avoided.
<Doh! You should always research before purchase.> I
contemplated returning the Sea Apple and was strongly leaning toward
doing just that until I did some further research with obviously less
well-informed "experts" that theorized that a tank wipeout
was extremely unlikely. <They obviously have not kept Holothuroids
for extended periods of time…> They also said that most of the
fish would survive even if it did happen and there likely would be time
to get the fish out. <Again Holothurin/Holotoxin is a
very powerful neurotoxin. It also depends on the kind of
Holothuroid that you have. Some are worse than others.>
Unfortunately, you were right and they were dead wrong and my fish paid
the price. <Sad to hear this really.> I feel
responsible because I was forewarned by you after I bought the Sea
Apple. I had a healthy thriving tank with no deaths for
seven months. The water was good, I was doing routine water
changes, all the fish were healthy and I had the Sea Apple for about
six months with no problems. I have learned a painful lesson
and I vow to be a more conscientious fish owner from this point
forward. <We all learn from our
mistakes. Everyone was new to this at some point.> I
usually follow your advice to the tee but all I takes is one major
mistake. I also learned to never trust my LFS without doing
research before hand. I know this is a touchy subject
but what would you do in this situation regarding the LFS that sold me
the Sea Apple. What action and I don't necessarily mean
legal action would you take. <I would make my situation
know to them. If they seem unconcerned or callous about your
plight, I would further go to the local Marine Aquarium
Society. I would tell them what happened and ask that they
not patron this establishment. You could put up a blog to
share this experience, etc.> I am curious to read your
response. In the meantime I can really use some immediate
help with this mess ASAP. <I hope that this helps.> Thank You,
<You are welcome.> (please feel free to post this for others to
read in the Marine Aquarium articles) <This correspondence, like all
correspondence to WWM will be posted. Brandon.> Sea Cukes Recommendation: Yellow cucumber (Colochirus robustus) 2/20/07 Dear WWM Crew, <Hi Alex. Mich here.> What is a good beginner sea cucumber, also I need 2 sea cucumbers and I have a 40gal and a 10 gal what are my options? Please help. <The Yellow cucumber (Colochirus robustus) is one of the easiest to keep, commonly reproduce in captivity and is quite pretty too! It is best to start them in an area of high water flow. These are suspension feeders and they do better in systems with refugiums. Also hermit crabs, particular Blue legged hermit crabs can be potential threats to these cucumbers. Good luck! -Mich> Sincerely, Alex Sea Apple For a Nano?--Not Advisable (6/7/05) Sea Cukes Quick question: Bob's book & your site both suggest only a nut case would keep sea cucumbers. Yet the book also implies that they might be good in a refugium. These seem to contradict. <Actually, it's mainly the larger species, particularly the "Sea Apples" which are problematical. Many small species are fine> I saw some fascinating small sea cucumbers (pink & bumpy--look like attached photo borrowed from your site). Am interested in one of these for my DSB/LR/Algae refugium. Am I nuts? <Not about these Cukes at least! They're fine for refugium use. Bob Fenner> Steve Starfish Addition Possibilities (cucumber too?) - 2/6/03 Hey again: Furniture - ugh! Definitely not how I meant it. <heehee... didn't think so :) But you scared me a little <G>> Thanks for the sea star advice. "Freshwater veteran, Marine newbie" - I am taking this endeavor very seriously (and I take deaths very badly)! <very good, my friend> But, alas, I have fallen short grammatically :(! <I have that problem daily and I get paid (a little) to do it. Ha!> I currently have a 10 gal QT and all future inhabitants will rest there first. <excellent!> Now that you mention it, any chance for a cucumber too? <a few are hardy... most are not worth the trouble. One of the easiest serves no useful purpose at all but is quite handsome. The Bright Yellow Fijian Cucumarid is a filter feeder that fares well and reproduces by division easily> I haven't gotten to that section of your site yet. I have some hitchhiking slugs from LR (or I think they are - they look like snails without shell, but with sort of a pint-size shell on bodies). <actually... you have a paper shell snail of the genus Stomatella... do use that genus name to find pics on the Internet to confirm> I did read in a recent AFM article (or other Mag) that cucumbers are too hard, and to get a lettuce slug instead. <although most Nudibranchs are even more delicate than the Holothuroid cucumbers at large, I would agree that the lettuce slug is hardy if you can grow enough to keep it fed. Still... the choices overall are weak (sea star, cucumber or sea slug). Have you considered any of the hardier Echinoid urchins instead? Some real beauties like the Tuxedo urchin> Would you agree with that statement (if I have paraphrased correctly)? <agreed> I just love all the different life forms, but I know I am limited by tank size. <actually... by species selection at this point. Do consider some hardier options to be safe. Brittle and serpent starfish are excellent too> Thanks, again! Rich <best regards, Anthony> Sea Cuke too big! Bob, <Linda> Hi there! We talked a few years ago as I converted my tank to include a Caulerpa refugium in the built-in sump area in the back. It has worked out pretty well. After growing up my human babies a little, I decided to stock the tank with a couple of interesting critters. From a reputable mail-order place. I got a fancy serpent star, a sand-sifting star, a bulb anemone, a tiger tail sea cucumber, a dwarf feather duster, a small maroon clown (tank-raised), and a small red-headed goby (tank-raised). Also, a couple of macroalgae "plants" for the display. The sand-sifting star was doa (this was refunded immediately). The rest of the specimens look great and are behaving normally. The clownfish has bonded thoroughly with the anemone and the goby is scooting around. The feather duster is trying to find its happiest spot and has attached upside-down to some rock (weird!). The sea cucumber had really murky water and looked like it might have expelled some stuff on shipping or it was shipped with a bunch of detritus. Having been forewarned, I am very wary of problems with Cukes. I observed it in a fish bucket overnight with an airstone and heater and several small partial water changes during that time, since I don't have a sponge filter ready to go yet. Upon closer observation, it appeared fully intact with good color and was moving about. <Good precautionary measures here> I added it to my tank and am observing it. It looks as though it is starting to do what it should be doing. Unfortunately, I think it is WAY too large for my tank. <This can be trouble... take a read through the June ish of FAMA (2003) for a pc. by Iggy Tavares re his experiences and reflections of using Sea Apples...> It came in a package for a 30 gallon tank, which is at least 50% smaller than mine (I undersized carefully). Also, the place I bought it from advertises that these specimens will be 2-5" when sold. Mine is at least 12 and probably more like 16"!!!! It is beautiful, to be sure, but I am afraid that it will not find a suitable home in my tank. <Agreed. I would try to trade this in> Should I offer it to the LFS so they can find it a more appropriate home? <Definitely> Your friend in fish, Linda <Be chatting, Bob Fenner> Scared of Turds? WOW! After reading http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm , I think I'd rather scrub each grain of sand by hand than deal with a Sandsifter like a cucumber! I don't want to turn my tank into a dangerous neighborhood! <Hehe, no worries, the cuc's that I'm recommending are the turd-like Caribbean varieties (Holothuria floridiana) and tiger tail cuc's. Neither I, nor any of my customers, nor any search on the popular reef boards has yielded a toxic experience with these critters. Check out Dr. Shimek's forum on reef central for some more reassurance.> What other options exist? <Hermit crabs pretty much "scrub each grain of sand by hand", Nassarius snails turn over bits of the sand as they burrow, and so do sand sifting gobies (which are detrimental to the sandbed fauna). -Kevin> Rich Sea Cucumber Questions (10/21/04) Hello crew. I hope this finds you all well. <Thank you. I hope you are well to. Steve Allen tonight.> Thank you for the prompt and informative response to my last question. I'm hoping you could field a few more about Sea Cucumbers. <I'll give it a shot.> I absolutely adore the little critters <Fascinating indeed, but some are quite risky.> and would like to add more to my 200 Gal tank. As it stands I have a pair of Pink and Green guys <Pentacta anceps> that are getting along quite well now that the Butterfly is leaving them alone. <How long have you had them. It may take months for them to starve to death if underfed.> According to your Cukes page, they are one of the more docile species. <all Cukes are docile in the behavioral meaning of the word, as in not aggressive. It's their poisonous insides that are a problem.> I'm well aware of the risk in keeping any cucumber, <Good> but assuming one were intent on doing so, can you recommend (some of) the species that tend to get along well in captivity? <I'm a big fan of the small yellow Colochirus robustus, which often reproduce by fission in the tank. I started with two and now have six. Some of the detritus-eaters, such as Tiger Tails are hardy. I'd skip Medusa Worms and Sea Apples.> Perhaps you could rank those on your Cukes page in terms of difficulty? If that's too much trouble, I'm specifically curious about Pink, Yellow, Black, and Tigertail Cucumbers. Do these tend to get along well in the reef aquarium? Is my tank large enough to house the latter most? Any negative interactions I should watch out for between species or with other common tank mates? Thanks for you time. <I highly recommend reading the Sea Cucumber chapter in Fenner & Calfo's "Reef Invertebrates"--very practical and useful. Another great one is Volume 4 of Foss?& Nielsen's "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium." Hope this helps.> Cucumber Follow-Up (10/22/04) Okay, so I decided to get a Tigertail and a couple Black Cucumbers. I also plan to add some Yellows a little later, but I digress. I think my Tigertail is in trouble...he appears to be shedding! <Could be problem. >I noticed on your second Cuke FAQs page that someone else has encountered this problem. You (that is, Steve Allen) said that it was not normal. I was curious about what exactly is going on and did some online research. <good> I found several sources which agree it is abnormal and sign of poor health. However, I also found a number of sites which said that they secrete a mucus-like substance when stressed and still other sites which said they can accumulate a thin layer of sand which they occasionally shed - both of which say its nothing to worry about. <Well, I'd worry about "stress." This varying information shows just how much we don't know about these creatures.> Now, I'm inclined to take your word over these other sources, especially given that he's not moving around much, but I wonder if you could tell me a little more about what exactly is happening to my cucumber? <I think that the key here is its behavior. It may indeed be normal for them to shed some material, but the skin should remain intact. If not, there is a problem. Additionally, a creature that does not behave normally is having some issue. I trust you acclimated these echinoderms slowly. Hard to say if it is a water quality issue, stress from being moved to a new home, or some illness.> Also I've also emailed the conflicting sources for more info because I'm really rather concerned about the poor little guy. I'm going to try and track down one of the texts you recommended later this weekend, but would really appreciate some quick advice. Please help. If he is indeed sick, what can I do? <Keep an eye on things and maintain excellent water quality. Consider moving it to a quarantine tank for observation and then treatment with antibiotics if this appears to be indicated.> I don't have the heart to simply yank him out. Oh, also, I've had the Pentacta anceps for a couple months. When I first got them, they didn't look so good and there was the trouble with the Butterfly, but I feed them a ton (directly) and their colors have really come out so I think they're doing well. <Good job.> Thanks again for your help! <I certainly hope things work out. Steve Allen.> Yellow Cucumber Follow-Up (11/30/04) Hi Steve. <Greetings> Thanks for your help, that is just what happens here, now I have 2 cucumbers. <cool!> That was something I was wondering but never really believed because I try to find information from books and all I find was that this creature can poison everything in the tank. <Seeing is believing. Check out Anthony Calfo & Bob Fenner's "Reef Invertebrates" book for great info on many sea cucumbers and other cool creatures, as well as excellent chapters on refugiums and algae. As for wipeout, these smaller critters are very unlikely to cause this in all but smaller tanks. It's the Sea Apples that are the big risk. Some other larger sea cucumbers are also a risk, but these little yellow ones are seldom a problem.> So lets see how many I will have next year. <Hopefully quite a few if you can keep them healthy and well-fed.> Thank you again for so many help for this hobby. <My pleasure to play a small part in the wonderful service that WWM is.> John Hyttinen Sea Apple liability... lawyer question? Bob, Who should be held responsible when a retailer sells a customer a sea apple which poisons the tank and doesn't even tell the customer how to feed it? In looking back now, soon after I purchased my first sea apple and added it to the tank, I started losing fish quickly. My first sea apple died because I wasn't told how to feed it and was told that it blew up from the inside out because of lack of food. I was told when I bought it that it fed much like that of an anemone. I have purchased a second sea apple now from the same retailer and I am starting to see my fish die again, one by one (four in the first 24 hours the sea apple was in the tank). I didn't know about the poison the sea apple puts out until recently and I read the question sent in to you by Ryan. The retailer where I bought both of my sea apples says he took the poison out of both of them. My question to you is: Is this possible? <Re the first responsibility question... I don't know. The retailer for assuming the customer knows enough? The customer for buying something without investigating it sufficiently ahead of time? Concerning the second question; I've never heard of such a thing as removing the poisoning capacity of sea cucumbers... but don't believe it really can be done. They have a few mechanisms (front and back)... including "throwing up" much of their internal organs... some bits of which are toxic. and regenerating them later. How would you do this preventative surgery?> I also bought a spotted moray eel (approximate size: 8") which ate other expensive fish and bit me! I was also sold a panther grouper that ate my shrimp the first night it was in the tank. I was never warned by the retailer about the eel or the panther grouper's eating habits or their aggressive behavior. <Hmmm, maybe time to look around for other dealers.> I am not asking you to be an attorney, but in your professional opinion, don't you think the retailer has a responsibility to the customers he sells to advise them of possible problems or special feeding habits--especially in a community tank such as mine. This certain retailer has even been to my house and is familiar with my tank. Sincerely Submitted, Ronnie <Sounds dedicated, just not very well informed. Bob Fenner >> Question: First off I would like to say you have a great site, keep up the good work. My question is about a sea apple. I recently bought one and now I think I may have made a mistake. I have talked to may local retailer, and he tells stories about being sued for sea apples poisoning an entire tank. Also, he commented about their eggs killing an entire tank. In the past few weeks I have noticed small white growths all over my live rock, and I am concerned that these are "baby" sea apples. I would appreciate any input you have on this matter. Bob's Answer: Ryan, I doubt that these are "baby" Sea Apples (they're definitely not). But you should be concerned. Paracucumaria, in particular of all their Order, are bad news. They don't have to reproduce to cause real trouble. Just getting "upset" by being sucked against an intake, burned by a heater, tormented by you or a tank mate... can/does bring about the end of many a pet fish hobbyists avocation. Sea Apple? Dear Bob: I just received an order from FFExpress and one of the things I got for my reef tank is an Australian Sea Apple. This apple is huge! Its about 10" X 4.5" What my question is, will this apple release toxins if it gets near my anemones. About 20 minutes after I put the apple in my tank it started heading straight for my biggest long tentacle anemone (8"). Then when my apple fell right into the anemone I got worried so I moved him to the other side of the tank. Any suggestions would be great! Thanks, Boyd Bunk >> These animals are very poor risks for small marine systems (only hundreds of gallons)... Keep an eye on your livestock... and be prepared to dump most all the water and replace it... add PolyFilter... and remove the animal/or the rest of your livestock if/when the Apple/cucumber eviscerates, or dies... Bob Fenner Sea Cucumber I was thinking on getting a small Sea Cucumber
to help rid the tank of Detritus and to stir up the live sand. My
concern is whether my brittle star will eat the cucumber. I have never
seen it take a snail or hermit crab but wanted to make sure. >>
Need to be careful here... Depending on the species of cucumber (make
it/them small ones... more numbers rather than larger ones...
definitely not the Sea Apple...too toxic, likely to cause poisoning
troubles)... and your size of system (bigger than a sixty?...) you
ought to look for fish-stirrers rather than Cukes... Bob Fenner, whose
sand-stirrer, Sea Cucumber, Marine Scavenger pieces can be found
archived at www.WetWebMedia.com |
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