Indonesian Sea Apple
8/15/07
Hey guys, love the website and the information you so kindly provide. With
that said, I work at my LFS and have been working in aquaria for about 4 years.
I purchased an Indonesian Sea Apple for my 30-gallon community tank,
<... Yikes...>
knowing (or at least thinking I did) the inherent risks of the organism. I have
had the cuke for more than 4 months and he receives daily doses of Marine Snow
<Of almost no nutritive value>
and has appeared to be doing well (no inflating from stress, no loss of size, no
moving in the tank once established). Today however I came home and noticed that
one of my favorite fish had passed, one of the ones I had had in the tank for a
while (5-6 months). I peered into the tank and noticed what appeared to be
little green balls (about the size of a flea perhaps?) floating all around in
the water. I examined the cuke closely and it appeared to have strings of these
little balls wrapped around a few of its feeding feathers. Another reader had
written you about a similar experience ("little yellow balls" in his case) and I
was wondering if this is in fact the cuke reproducing?
<Possibly this... or fecal material... or?>
I couldn't find any info on how they reproduce. Is it common for them to
reproduce in captivity?
<Not uncommon>
Also, if so are the eggs simply themselves toxic?
<Can be, yes>
I have never done a full change on my tank and unless I notice labored breathing
or anything of the like I don't intend to, at least until I establish that this
did in fact come from the Sea Apple.
<Good point... this material could be unrelated to the Holothuroid>
Aside from him the only other inverts in the tank are a pair of Skunkback
Cleaner Shrimp and Peppermint Shrimp,
<Could be their eggs... though unusual to be released as such>
Margarita Snails, Blue-legged hermit crabs and a small Tiger-Tail Cuke and of
course the corals (mostly Euphyllia, Toadstools, Zoos and Mushrooms). Thank you
for any insight into this odd situation!
Alec Parodi
Valencia, CA
<Do keep a close watch on this system... "If" something goes sideways with the
Sea Apple... all could turn into bouillabaisse in minutes... Bob Fenner>
Re: Indonesian Sea Apple
8/15/07
PS - Somehow missed the section on your site with the information about the
sea cucumber reproduction. I now see that this is exactly what happened.
Despite my cautions with it dying being a problem, I never thought that it
THRIVING (i.e. reproducing) would be a problem. In the last 2 months though I
have had my rose bubble anemone split once and my toadstool leather reproduce
through self-fragmentation a total of 12 times. Guess I am taking TOO good of
care of my tank.
Alec Parodi
Valencia CA
<Heee! Possibly. BobF>
Re: Indonesian Sea Apple
8/15/07
Thank you very much for the reply and information Mr. Fenner! Wanted to
update you as to the situation - I checked the water chemistry and the only
thing that was off was the nitrates (around 15, ppm I suppose?) which is a tad
unusual considering that with the amount of bacteria in the system the tank has
never gone above 5-10. So after I noticed labored breathing from the fish I did
a 60% change.
<Good move>
Several hours later I had lost 1/2 of the total fish in the incident,
<... sorry to realize>
including the original fish that played the role of the canary in the mineshaft
apparently. Shrimp seem to be fine, as do a couple of the surviving fish,
although the cardinal looks like he is on his last leg.
<IF at all possible, DO MOVE the remaining livestock... fish and non-fish to an
entirely different setting/system!>
I removed the cuke from the tank and haven't seen anymore of these "little green
balls" since. The water chemistry after letting it sit overnight was perfect. Is
there a risk leaving the eggs which inevitably fell into some of the live rock,
etc?
<Not much>
Or would it be like any other organic matter and simply raise the ammonia or
nitrate?
<Perhaps just the dying fishes>
I just want to make sure that as they dissolve they will not toxify the water.
One last question (I promise!) was what commonly available food do you recommend
as an overall feed for inverts in a tank (corals, dusters, apples, etc).
<Do general my friend... possibly just a large, healthy refugium tied in... with
live organisms being produced, exported from there>
I know that is a question which is a bit silly considering that all of the above
feed on different particles of different nanometers, but thought I would ask
anyhow. The info I have read on the apples indicate their feeding apparatus can
only capture particles ~<50 nanometers. Thanks again!
Alec Parodi
Valencia, CA
<Keep studying, applying yourself my young friend... Consider writing your
experiences, fields you are interested in... into articles for sale. Bob Fenner>
Re: Indonesian Sea Apple
8/15/07
Thank you very much kind sir, have spent most of this morning on the site
(which BTW I was excited to see referenced as a, well, reference in the last
issue of Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine)!
Alec Parodi
<Ahh! Thank you Alec. Bob Fenner>
Sea Cuke that likes to stay on front of Tank - 3/7/07
Hi to all.
<Hello John. Brandon tonight.>
I have a Sea Cucumber that I've had for about 8 months in a 58g 4"DSB .
Included livestock include 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Niger Trigger <You will ultimately
have to move this one to a larger tank.>, 1 Marron Clown,& 1 OL Anthias. Inverts
are 1 Porc. Crab ,1 Blood Fire Shrimp & 1 Sand Sifter Star. I HAD about 40 mixed
snails <Had?>, My parameters are always : Sal. 1.023-.024,PH 8.2, Ammon. 0,
Trites. 0, Trates. 0, Calc 400,Alk. 2.8,Phos 0
My Question is this: I noticed 3 days ago that my Cuke was on the front of my
Tank, Curled up & like a snail. Not moving most of the time, but if it did it
was maybe an inch in several hours. While cleaning my tank side yesterday, I
knocked him off and now he just lays on the sand . He is still alive because
when I moved him, he would move just a little. <Be careful moving it
around. You DO NOT want to make it mad.> Should I remove him, or, because it
may be dying, <For safety sake, and the sake of your fish, I would move it to a
QT tank.> or since I've seem to of lost about a dozen snails( because of temp
change), do you think maybe that may have a part in it? <Very possible. The
Holothuroidea like very high quality, stable water. Please see here,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm.> Don't know what kind of Cuke it
is. It has yellow spikes, Gray/off white body and black specks. <Sounds like
Colochirus robustus, but I really can't tell without a picture.> Thanks
<You are welcome, hope this helps. Brandon.>
Tiger tail seems to be stuck 7/19/06
Hi people, I have a very odd situation, bought an orange tiger tail
cucumber last week to help with the cleaning.
<Mmm... not really useful for this in but a few types of settings>
It hid for 6 days, under inspection we discovered it's head or tail, seemed to
be stuck in a large empty snail shell,
<No, not stuck... can get back out of anything it can put its head into>
so we dislodged it. It moved a few inches, and now seems to have its head or
tail stuck in a rock crevice. What is it doing and why, should we help it, or
leave it alone.
Kinda worried.
Thanks,
Chris Wheeler
<May be unhealthy for whatever reason/s, but could more likely be just "doing
what they do"... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cukebehfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Cuke Behavior 4/1/06
Hi Crew, <Hello Tom>
Sometimes animals just have their own reasons, but I'm curious if you can
shed light on a change in our black sea cucumber's activity.
For about a year, since we got it, this cuke has been happy crawling around
the sand bottom doing what cukes do. But, for the last couple of days it
has been cruising around the top perimeter of the tank, on the glass just
below the waterline.
It's in a 2 year old, healthy 125G reef tank with 9 various fish, and about
25 corals, mostly sps and a couple LPSs, 1 derasa and a couple of skunk
cleaner shrimp. Tank params are all copasetic and stable (let me know if you
want all the details). No changes to the livestock for over 6 months, and
everyone else seems normal.
I now worry about the cuke getting stuck in the overflow or closed loop
intakes. I've gently placed it back on the sand, but then it crawls back up
to the top. I'm wondering if you know of some sort of event (maybe
reproductive or age related?) in the life of a cuke that drives this change
in behavior.
<I'm guessing two things. One, you may have a hydrogen sulphide buildup in
the sand that the cuke isn't fond of. (Do you vacuum the substrate during
water changes?
Number two, the cuke may not be finding enough food on the bottom and
looking elsewhere. Am posting a link to an article regarding the cukes.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm>
Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Tom
Pink cucumber ends 7/23/05
Dear Bob,
<Jay>
Once again thanks for all your help. I received a pink cucumber from a
friend and it has been doing extremely well in my tank. I feed it
phytoplankton
about 3 times a week with a piece of air hose and a syringe so I can release
it
into its feeding tentacles.
<Interesting>
However on occasion I see the feeding end close up and at the other end I
see blackish/brown worm (size of a hair) like tentacles waving around the tank,
<Mmm, likely respiratory processes>
if I go near then they get sucked back into the cuke. This doesn't happen
often, but I am bewildered as to what it is and can not find anything on the
web
to inform me of this cuke practice.*** I saw somewhere that it maybe a
defense mechanism or something about trying to catch sperm released in the
water
for mating. However this is all speculation based on what I tried to
decipher.***
<Me too>
My water parameters are as follows: 40 gallon tank, 0 (ammonia, nitrate,
nitrite), 1.23 salinity, 8.4 PH.. I use a 65w 10000k white light with actinic
bulb, with a moon light at night.
Hope you can help.
Thanks Million.
Jay
<Well, a Holothuroid can/does evert parts of their organs via their anus... Bob
Fenner>
Small yellow cuke is puking 7/6/05
I have a small yellow cuke that has expelled its organs. I have a 29 gallon
that has a ton of live rock and good circulation/adequate filtration and has
been up for a year. In the FAQs you guys seem to indicate that this will not be
a problem...my fish/corals seem ok. < Well I think everything else in the tank
is going to be okay. But that cuke may not do well. >
Should I take him out? < No, I think that would just make things worse and
stress him out. > He has only been in there for a few days. < I think this may
be a sign of poor shipping/acclimation/feeding. Unfortunately this doesn't
sound good, but all you can do now is just wait and hope for the best. >
Thanks for the help.
Matt
< Blundell >
Pygmy Cucumber growing ROOTS into Green Star
Polyp?
Hey there! The title says it all. I went to remove my pygmy cucumber from on top
of a part of the star polyp and I noticed that in order to pull him off I had to
pull these little 'roots' out of the coral. What's the deal with this? Is it
harmful to my star polyps? Thanks again! Ray
<if they came off of the cucumber, they were simply tube feet and they will
regrow. Else something was growing onto the cucumber. Simple parts here...
nothing else it could be from the Cucumarid. Best regards, Anthony>
Where Did That Cucumber Go?
Good Afternoon, Crew
<Hi there! Scott F. your Crew member today>
Just a quick question for you. I have a 46 gal bowfront with a few happy fish
and 60 lbs of live rock. From a very reliable source it was recommended that I
purchase a tiger tale cucumber to help keep the sand sifted and clean. I
purchased a real beauty and added to my system last week. Have not seen him
since. Do they stay hidden all the time? Do they ever come out for air?
<Well, these are rather secretive creatures, and they tend to remain hidden
behind rocks or underneath the substrate, so it's normal to barely see them.
About the only thing that will betray their presence is usually the
"droppings" that they leave, which are generally like little clumps of
sand...>
Just would like to know your opinion on these strange creatures as I am getting
conflicting reports on their behavior. Thanks for your time. Randy S
<Well, Randy, as mentioned above, these creatures tend to be secretive. They
do help sift through the upper sand layers, which can be a big help in some
systems. Keep a close eye out for this guy, and I'll bet you'll see him from
time to time!>
Sea cucumber evisceration
Hi,
I've just finished reading through your excellent sea cucumber web-pages and
wondered if anyone has ever filmed sea cucumber evisceration? How
fast does it happen?
<Have seen some footage of this. Can "happen" in less than a
second, or several seconds>
Is it something that could be filmed happening naturally, do you think? (i.e.
without having to provoke the poor old sea cucumber!).
<Mmm, likely provoked. An "expensive" (biologically) thing to do...
often results in loss of "parts" (respiratory apparatus, gonads...),
calling for energy, time for replacement.>
With many thanks for your help.
Penny Allen
<Thank you for writing. Bob Fenner>
Girlfriend is at it again - new additions 6/20/03
First of all you guys ROCK!!! Stop blushing it's embarrassing.
<I'm not blushing... that's a gin blossom. Thanks for the kudos at any rate
<G>>
I need to quit my job because every time I come home there is a new addition to
the tank.
<spontaneous creation is so cool...>
This time it was a pink thorny cucumber. I think that is what it is. Anyways as
she was putting it in the tank she dropped it.
>ahhh... girlfriend likes to shop. Good luck... and buy stock in Snickers>
As I watched it fall 2 feet I went and got me a beer to watch the fun. Well once
it landed (on the feather duster) it started to emit a ton of tan colored balls.
<Oh, yeah... the old ball-ejecting dropped when from a height maneuver...>
I was done half my beer by the time it was finished. I ran to the computer to
get on WWM to find out if I was going to jail for murder.
<depends on the nature of the balls>
As lucky as I am I could find nothing solid on here about what I have and what
it did. I was a little disappointed mind you. So far no ill effects are seen and
it has been a week. I even saw some fish eat the balls.
<no comment>
They are still alive. So is the cucumber ( I think). He is sitting on top of my
pink and lavender polyps which are at the top of my tank near a powerhead. I
guess the question is what exactly did it emit?
<could have been gametes ejected under duress. We cannot say they were fecal
pellets (cast) as with detritivore Holothuroids... this filter-feeder of yours
simply is unlikely to excrete that much solid waste at once>
And did I just get lucky that he did not kill the whole tank?
<perhaps a little... but Holothurin toxicity is overrated IMO. The production
of the toxin requires great emotional energies... and they are not dispensed
easily. Your Pentacta anceps cucumber however is a hardy species that reproduces
readily in captivity (fission) and is longer lived compared to many others in
this group>
Did I mention that you guys ROCK!!!? BTW I have a 220 tank. Kenny
<best regards, my friend. Anthony>
"What's Wrong With Your Cucumber... It Looks Funny"- 8/23/03
I bought a pink and black sea cuke 8/20/03 that's just a few days ago. I
acclimated it to my water for about 3 hours.
<please do QT all livestock... especially such potentially toxic creatures as
cucumbers... in a separate tank for several weeks first>
Then I put it in the tank. I notice that it did not crawl away or anything.
<not sure without a pic... but you may have a filter-feeding species, which
can stay in the same place for years as many Cucumarids do (like sea apples)>
I had one before and I acclimated it the same way and it rolled over on its
stomach and crawled away. granted it was a prickly cuke not a red and black one.
This thing just flattens and expands, but it doesn't crawl AT ALL.
<hmmm... may have tossed its innards under duress from recent shipping stress
on import>
It move a few inches in my tank but nothing impressive. I'm wondering should I
remove it or should I wait.
<at this point be patient and very observant (removal promptly on it death if
so)>
It really doesn't look normal. it's twisted and it's mouth don't seem
to touch the sand all the time. Matter of fact it doesn't eat at all. I could
see it's mouth to side. It just lies there and inflate a little and deflate,
maybe it my scoot down a little, but as far as movement it doesn't do much. Is
this normal?
<hard to say... do give it more time. And look for feeding tentacles. What do
you plan to feed it? Do you even know what this species is and what it eats? (detritivore
or planktivore). Alas, too many are bought by the ill-prepared>
..
is it regeneration organs or something. I bought it in tact.
<perhaps... could have happened days/weeks ago further back in the chain of
custody on import. Best of luck. Anthony>
Sea Cucumber
To whom:
I have an orange and white cucumber I believe it is the species: Holothuria
hilla. I noticed this week it had been split in half, each end looks
fine, no damage, or leakage. Both halves are moving and looking
normal. Is this normal? I heard these guys can regenerate their stomachs but
what about this??? Please help, is the rest of my tank at risk?? all the levels
are good.
Anissa
<hmm...this is curious. In general, echinoderms are amazing regenerators. If
behaviors look normal, it (they) should be ok. keep a close eye on it for
necrosis around the edge of separation. best, Chris>
Sea cucumber
Can a sea cuke spin a cocoon?
<Of a sort, yes>
I have what appears to be a cocoon towards the top of my saltwater
tank by the filtration vents. What the heck is it? Last
night I saw one of the cukes (same one?) with a milkish like film squirt from
it, the fish were quite interested in it. Is this related to the
cocoon? I have another cuke that has two small clear to milky
white bubbles on it, that wasn't there yesterday. This milky white
bubble stuff is what the cocoon looks like. NONE of my sea cukes are
poisonous!! :) Amy
<I do hope that your sea cucumbers are indeed non-toxic. Just the same I
would gingerly vacuum out/remove this "cocoon". Bob Fenner>\
Pentacta lutea (10/3/04)
Bob, <Steve Allen covering>
Interesting article. <Not certain which article you are referring to, but I
always find Bob's articles fascinating and helpful. I'll pass along the
compliment.> I have been keeping one black and two pink sea cucumbers since 1997
in a reef tank with coral and fish and have to date no adverse
experience. <Glad to hear. Many succeed with these lest toxic and more hardy
species. Sea Apples are another story...> Last week I purchased two 2" yellow
Pentacta lutea which you list as Colochirus robustus. <As near as I can tell
from Googling, these names describe the same animal, but Pentacta lutea appears
to be used far less commonly.> The other day while performing janitorial duties
I moved one of them and it separated into two 1" sections. I thought that I
caused the separation but the other one located on another rock separated also.
I now have four distinct individual sea cucumbers. Three of them seem to remain
in their position with no movement and are about 1" in length. The other one
moved about a foot across the tank and has grown back to 2" in length. <I used
to have two of these, now I have 8.> I have read that they are capable of
breeding in captivity but have never heard of them dividing. <Rather common
actually. Fascinating indeed. The front half grows a new back end and the back
half grows an new front, tentacles and all. They don't move unless they're
dissatisfied with their current location.> I would appreciate it you know any
more details about their breeding habits? <I'd say they split more often than
spawning, but that's just because I've seen them do it so much. You can probably
get more info by searching under Colochirus robustus. Per Fosså & Nielsen's
extensively researched "The Coral Modern Reef Aquarium, Volume 4, c2002" the
details of their natural reproduction are not known> Tony <Hope this helps.>
