FAQs on Longnose, Genus Forcipiger
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Bacterial lesion on Longnose butterfly?
Hi Crew. Got a bit of a problem on a Longnose butterfly in quarantine.
<Mmm; I see this... inflammation, reddish patch>
I noticed a raised light colored patch on it this morning. Now this evening it
looks bigger, and deeper colored, and I am concerned that I need to do something
fast. It is in its second week of quarantine, and still eating and pretty
active. As always it is sort of hard to photograph, but the first photo is from
this morning at around noon, followed by ten this
evening. Any ideas?
<A few... this mark could be resultant from a physical trauma... whacked with a
net, bonked during handling, keeping... Might be bacterial involvement... to
some degree pathogenic perhaps. Is this Uronema or some other Protozoan
involvement? The only way (that I know currently) to tell is by sampling,
possibly culturing, and looking under a microscope... What would I do?>
Thanks! And once again, quarantine is the only way to go!
<Mmm; not in all cases, but the vast majority; yes>
<I'd likely do a preventative dip/bath as detailed on WWM :
and move this fish to the main display.
Yes; I'd take the risk of introducing a parasite (small enough chance here), to
save this fish by moving it to more stable, ideal conditions. Have made this
"triage decision" many thousands of times in handling imported fishes, retail,
Re: Bacterial lesion on Longnose butterfly?
Thanks Bob. Unfortunately, when I got home from work, the fish had died.
<Aughh! I should have been more emphatic re moving it NOW. >
I hate killing fish! Assuming that it died from a bacterial infection, is
there anything special that I should do with my quarantine tank to make it
safe to add new fish?
<Mmm; not the system, or quarantine, but the protocol itself for given
species, AND specimens that are better off being "expedited". Not possible,
well, practical to try and relate the vast range of decision making here.
"It" would take reading all of WWM, us chatting for a few days re>
There is nothing in there but a filter, a skimmer, and a piece of live rock.
I assume emptying it and drying out the equipment should help.
<Again; I don't think the issue here was "biological" (pathogenic), but the
species, this individual being "diffed". Bob Fenner>
Problem with Long Nose Butterfly
See attached photo.
150g tank. 175lb LR. 8 months old. PH:8.2. Salinity 1.025. Temp 82. Zero
detectable ammonia or nitrite. Nitrate: 10. Tank mates : Midas Blenny,
Coral Beauty dwarf angel, coral banded shrimp and serpent star. Dozen or
so smallish coral, primarily LPS. Daily vodka dosing of 3ml. No other
chemical added to tank. Moderate tank flow and lighting. No recent
additions to tank, parameters have been stable, no changes in behavior
or appearance of other fish.
Long nose butterfly has been in the tank for about 4 weeks. About 4".
Has been very active and feeding well from the start. Fed home-mix of
mysis, krill, chopped scallop and shrimp. Woke up this morning, looked
at tank, butterfly was lethargic, not moving much at all actually,
dorsal fin clamped, and had developed bilateral "bulge" or swelling
running all along spine as well as 1/2" diameter bulge on anal fin,
in front of and below " the spot". Looks like fluid fill sack. In the
evening bulges seem more pronounced . Couldn't see any typical signs of
velvet or ich. Bulges do not look consistent with Lymphocystis. Didn't
notice any other appearance changes. Have read through material on the
common diseases and maladies associated with Butterflies but didn't see
anything describing these bulges.
Any thoughts on possible causes?
<Unusual... is this swelling due to... some sort of "latent" infection?
From what? Not an area where fishes are needled to release air from
collection, bringing to the surface.... A kidney/nephric condition
possibly, from a few etiologies... Getting poked, stung by something?
Much less likely. To do? I'd hold off on the EtOH administration, dose
iodide-ate and hope for the best. Bob Fenner>
Problem with Long Nose Butterfly follow-up
Oh wait... after more reading.... problem with swelling on long nose
butterfly is probably, dropsical/Ascites/edema. Although not observed on the
belly, the swelling does match the descriptions of these symptoms.
<Not localized like this...>
Sounds like bacterial infection is likely cause and treatment is with
antibiotic. Does that sound about right?
<I wouldn't try antibiotics here myself... but if so, I'd lace foods. BobF>
re: Problem with Long Nose Butterfly
Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. Fish did expire. Whatever it was it worked fast.
Just an inherent risk in the hobby I suppose... inexplicable losses.
<Aye; the anomalous losses... Bob Fenner>
re: Forceps butterfly spot
Ph range 8.1
PraziPro and copper as well as Kent marine Zoe Vit and minerals Started out
as unnoticeable spot/bump and now looks like large bruise.
Seems to be growing in size and color.
<Kody, fielding this because it's not clear to me you got Bob's message.
He's off on a coral reef somewhere in the ocean, and his access to the
Internet is equivalent to dial-up, and sending a 4MB image (PNG format, to
boot!) isn't going to help him to help you. So for now, let's direct you to
some reading, here:
To my admittedly untrained eye this looks like an opportunistic infection,
perhaps started by physical damage (rough handing for example, or
interspecific aggression) but basically something that is precisely what you
suggest, a bruise gone bad. Although Forcipiger are fairly adaptable fish
(by Chaetodontid standards, anyway) they are still quite demanding,
especially with regard to their need for a varied diet rich in vitamins (the
fact they'll eat all sorts of things doesn't mean they get all the nutrients
they need, any more than the fact cats drink milk means it's good for them).
So let me direct you to some more reading, here:
All else being equal, if you optimise living conditions, remove sources of
stress, and ensure the right diet and vitamin supplements, this little chap
should recover under his own steam. In my opinion, over/mis-medicating
Chaetodontids causes more problems than it cures, so best holding off the
medications unless you're 100% sure there's a good reason to do so. Cheers,
Long nose Butterfly with exploding head... yeah who wants this one?
Lol... More bio. 9/6/15
So I have a long nose butterfly fish I've had for several weeks from a reputable
LFS that had quarantined him themselves for a week. Up until now he has always
been his normal chipper self, poking around and eating quite voraciously.
Parameters on my 150 gallon reef are quite stable, although I recently
started carbon dosing (about 3 weeks ago) after my nitrates got to
5ppm. I dose with vinegar, about 96 mL per day by doser at 4mL an hour.
Nitrates are .2ppm with salifert, now seemingly stable. Phosphate being dealt
with by GFO and Phosguard.
Anyway back to the fish. Woke up and the fish is swimming near bottom, seemingly
just trying to maintain balance. On the side of his head he has a bump, which
seems to have split his scales so that it is noticeable. One of the cracks
originating from the bump appears to go down the side of his body (not following
the lateral line). Unfortunately the picture I took
from my iPhone doesn't really do it justice.
First, this would appear to me to be parasitic in nature.
If so, is it unique to butterflies or must I now worry about other
<Possibly; this is HLLE; possibly with Octomita involvement (chicken: egg
analogy); of... a few possible influences.... nutritional, water quality
mostly.... corrected, correct-able by the same>
Is there anything I should/can dose with to eliminate said parasite? This fish
is obviously on deaths door, but should I euthanize, or QT and wait and see?
<Just read here for now:
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the help,
Yellow Longnose Butterflyfish Help! 8/28/15
I came across your site while trying to determine what was going on with my
Longnose butterflyfish. You have by far the most and best information I could
find, so I thought I’d send an email in hopes you can help me. I’ve had a yellow
Longnose butterflyfish for 3 weeks now. He’s currently in a 75 gallon quarantine
tank. In the beginning there was no problem with feeding. He ate all the mysis I
<Needs more than this>
Recently, he hasn’t been eating anything. He will swim up to every piece of food
floating around, but will only eat maybe 1 or 2 of them. I’ve tried a few drops
of garlic extreme in the mysis, tried Selcon, and tried krill, bloodworms, and
clams as well. Today, I noticed red spots around his mouth.
<Not good... perhaps indicative of a deficiency (nutritional) syndrome,
something awry w/ water quality>
He his hiding, and stays towards the bottom of the tank in a corner. Any idea
what this could be, or what to do at this point?
<Can only guess... I'd be offering live food items, soaked in a vitamin, HUFA
mix. Adding a few time dose of iodide-ate to the water. Do you use chemical
filtrants in this system? What other life is present?>
The temperature is 80, ph is 8.2, salinity is 1.024, and there is no ammonia.
Any help is appreciated.
Re: Yellow Longnose Butterflyfish Help! 8/28/15
Thanks so much for the quick reply. I understand from reading your articles that
this red spot is not a good sign, but I’m still hopeful. I am continuing to do
water changes to keep the water quality up. I am also picking up some live
blackworms today, so hopefully he will eat something.
I will try soaking them in a vitamin mix as well. No chemical filtrates are
being used in this tank and he is currently the only life in the tank (it’s a
single fish quarantine tank). Can you point me in the right direction on
<The search tool (on every page, on WWM; or the indices:
I’m not quite sure what/how much to add.
<Instructions above, and on commercially made products... no worries re
Do you think lowering the salinity would be beneficial?
<A good question... BFs don't appreciate such manipulation in general. I would
not do this>
Any other possible treatments?
<Not at this juncture if it were me/mine>
Thanks again for all the help…
Forcipiger Lymphocystis? Seven megs files and no rdg.
My Longnose had this white growth coming out of it's dorsal fin. It has
grown larger in the past few days. At first I thought he just got
nipped by my threadfin butterfly, however it
now seems to me that it is Lymphocystis.
I did just upgrade my tank, and after the new tank move I noticed this.
Thank you for any information you have.
<Appears to be; read here:
and the linked files above.
Longnose butterfly; CP burn?
Good evening Bob, and crew,
I am in need of advise <advice>. I am treating my fish in a hospital
tank for Ich. I had outbreaks years ago, all the fish but a tang pulled
thru, no treatment
other than frequent water changes and continued good water quality. The
tang was treated with copper.
Over the years I have had only a few fish in my DT and recently started
adding fish per your "ok" on my planned additions. Of course this has
upset the balance of a lovely aquarium, and three weeks later a couple
fish have spots and some distress. I pulled the distressed fish, and I
started copper treatment in a hospital tank. Ammonia could not be
controlled so I decided to try using Chloroquine phosphate per The
Marine Fish Health & Feeding Handbook instructions.
I set up a new 30 gallon tank with mature biological filtration. I am
four days into it and all the fish look great and are behaving healthy.
All except the Longnose butterfly. The butterfly fish was never in the
copper, btw. He has good color, and is eating NLS pellets. The issue is
that all along his back where his dorsal spines meet his body is notably
swollen, and his scales are standing out in that area, like a localized
dropsy. I can not get a good picture of him, sorry. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.
<Mmm, I'd keep an eye on this Forcipiger... and be ready to pull it,
possibly do a pH adjusted freshwater dip (SOP on WWM) enroute to
returning it to another main/display sans further treatment. CP
exposure is more touchy with Butterflies (and Angels, and...). I suspect
it is the quinine exposure here that is causing it harm. Bob
Re: Longnose butterfly 3/19/14
Thank you for the fast response. I think it might be best to pull him
out tonight. His caudal fin area is swollen too. Again, thank you so
<Ah, welcome. BobF>
Impossible for me to keep YLN butterfly
Hello Dear Bob:
Before I have written you about my poor success with cardinal Banggai,
and you recommended to try to get them from a reputable vendor (Quality
Marine). I did that and finally I had luck and by now I have had
this fish without problems for several months.
In that post I commented you that I have a rule of not trying a
fish more than 3 times without luck. Well… I broke the rule with the
Yellow Long Nose butterfly, I already tried 4 and 4 misses already, all
similar, the fish lasted 2 to 3 weeks, first they didn’t eat for 2
weeks, finally 1 day they started to eat, and then some days later they
were dead. The fishes have been all from different stores including QM
seller. One went to display tank directly and the other three went to QT
but the result were almost the same, food offered varied from live brine
shrimp, clam, worms, prepared food, etc.
I know it is hard to say what went wrong since there are so many
variables involved, and it is a similar situation as when I asked you
before about the cardinal Banggai regarding my luck with a fish that
usually some books consider a beginner one.
Just to conclude, there is a seller that I haven’t tried and claims
their YLN come from Hawaii (the others I did not know the origin).
<Yes; both species of Forcipiger are found in HI... shipped in the trade
from there. The best source for the U.S. mainland>
Do you think that could make a difference or should I include this
fish in my list of dream but forbidden fishes (Moorish idol,
ribbon eel, Copperband)?
<I give these species only a "2" in rating for survivability (about half
live a month or more...)... the three you mention rate a three...
dismally less than half live two weeks>
Thanks for your comments, I always find them really helpful and try to
learn from them.
<Do the usual long read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/forcipig.htm
and the linked files above... for review, input re their husbandry
|Re,,, CP use 3/2/11
Bob. I just wanted to shoot you over a picture of my long nose
butterfly. If you look, right above the "fake eye spot"
all the way at the back of the body right before the tail starts
you will notice a dark mass.
Is this a tumor, part of his vertebrae or something else?
<Got me. Your pic is too blurry to tell much other than that
there's a dark patch>
Is there anything I can do for this? It was so hard to find him
after looking for a few years now....I don't want to lose him
(longnoses are rare in my area anymore).
It looks like the mass does protrude a little out from the
body....but barely at all. I was looking at the skeleton of this
fish and it looks similar but couldn't see anything similar on
the thousands of longnoses I Googled in Google images.
<Just time going by>
Thanks for your input. Pics are attached.
Re: re: Hey Bob... Forcipiger...
Ok, well I will describe it then. It is a bump that looks to be
red on the inside, almost like blood. The scales are raised up
slightly and it gets bigger every 2-3 days. Seems like its coming
to a "head" but there is no open wound.....yet!
<But I do think your hint as to a wound is spot on>
I did some research and I am unsure as to what treatment to use.
I am hoping this isn't Uronema Marinum,
<Mmm, no... highly doubtful. This fish, your other fishes
would be long since dead>
which is hard to discern considering it looks a lot like a
<Perhaps secondary to the physical trauma>
My long nose doesn't have any labored breathing or pale
coloration and is acting normally. I was wondering if Chloroquine
Phosphate would help at all if this was indeed a bacterial
infection? This is the medication I am going to treat with in
about a week. What Med do you think I should use first based upon
the description I gave?
<I would not treat this at all>
Thanks again for this wonderful site!
Re: re: Hey Bob
Man you are truly a life saver! Thanks a lot for your patience
and tolerance with my weekly emails lol.
<Welcome again. B>
Long-nose butterfly death 8/27/10
I am so discouraged! I can't see any reason why my long-nose
butterfly is dying after one week in my main tank, having eaten and
doing well until now; no spots or damage that I can see.
<Mmm, happens at times... many organisms "mask" their
apparent health, it's antithesis... has individual to species
saving advantage... Giving predators not much idea that they're
I have a 90g, FOWLR + cleaner shrimp, nitrites, ammonia, nitrates all
0, sp is 1.024, sump under tank + two power heads in tank, protein
skimmer, one year old. The other inhabitants: flame angel, 2 chromis,
fire fish, Valenciennea puellis, royal gramma, tomato clown, and skunk
cleaner shrimp. Up until today, the butterfly looked and acted great
(following QT). Today he is head-down, breathing hard, behind some
rocks. He is obviously dying, and I can't see what happened.
We've spent well over $1400 on our set-up and fish, and I don't
know what to do. Should I just assume fish don't live long (but 1
week?), and stop adding to the population?
<Up to you. Forcipiger spp. can be good additions, but many do
perish due to collective stress... shipping, handling, capture damage.
One must secure initially healthy, feeding specimen/s...>
It is so discouraging. (By the way, I've had marine fish for many
years, and had one long-nose for over 16 yrs., a hippo tang 11 yrs.,
and a frame angel 15-1/2 yrs. I guess I was just lucky. They died when
I moved them and didn't have the new tank properly cycled--my
But this new set-up has me completely baffled. Do you have any words of
wisdom, or encouragement?
<Take this in stride... let some time pass...>
Thanks for being there for us, Edie
<A pleasure to share. BobF>
Long-nose butterfly dying 8/27/10
I'm sorry to add this on--I should have mentioned in my last email
about my long-nose butterfly dying after one week in main tank that he
is not the first fish to have this happen to. A couple other recent
fish only lasted a short time, and didn't seem to be sick ahead of
time. That is why I am so discouraged and wondering if I should even
get more fish. (I didn't know how to attach this to my first email,
so I hope it reaches you.)
<Mmm, you might want to "shop around" a bit for another
livestock source. BobF>
long--nose butterfly dying 8/27/10
I don't think you would have time to answer my last email; but if
you did, I apologize for not using the thread---I'm really rushed
right now and can't check. But I did want to tell you that I took
out the dead butterfly just now and he has reddish streaks & spots
on both sides of his body. You can see what killed him! I couldn't
see any marks at all on him yesterday. Does that mean he was
<Mmm, not necessarily, no>
Had a bacterial infection that just showed up?
<Possibly, or just internal bleeding... can be "just"
Been handled roughly in capture?
<Possibly to very likely>
It helps a little to know---maybe I won't give up all together (but
I can't bring myself to get any more fish for quite awhile, I
Thanks for taking the time to read all this---you can tell I'm
<You have done what you could my friend. B>
Flukes?? No thanks, I'm having Lymph--
Hello crew! Hope everyone is well today. I am having some
concerns with a recent addition to my tank. I recently purchased
a Longnose B/F from my local fish store. He came in from HW
<I will take it you mean Hawaii>
and was in quarantine and in his tanks for about 3 weeks. I had
been watching him and checking up on him every few days. He was
eating Mysis shrimp just great and was doing well. After bringing
him home and acclimatizing him he was added to my DT at
He is doing great as far as I can tell. Picking away at the live
rock, still eating Mysis fine but avoiding any pellet food so
So my concern is with the little granules that have appeared on
him the day after I received him. He has about 3 on his left
side. At first I thought they might have actually been sand
particles that he got stuck on him but I realize now that after a
week that is probably not possible for them to not have fallen
off by now. He is showing no signs of discomfort, eyes are clear,
gills are fine - normal colour etc, breathing fine, he isn't
even scratching or rubbing on anything. So my question is should
I be concerned for these?
<Concern? Yes. Treatment? No... these appear to be of a viral
nature... most often labeled as "Lymphocystis" in hobby
Should I just let them fall off eventually hopefully or should I
take more drastic measures like QT him or dipping him in a fresh
water dip with Meth blue? or Formalin?
Any advise would be appreciated. Picture is attached although it
is hard to see any detail of such small specks. They are not flat
spots, they are like little grains and I can see no movement of
them and they have remained in same position on "Bob"
since I first saw them. My son came up with the great
<No worries. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/virdisidf.htm
and the linked files above. The other Bob (Fenner)>
26/02/10 Stumped.... Forcipiger hlth.,
I am quite confused about medicating a Long nose Butterfly.
I recently treated my long nose with Quinine Sulfate for Ich and after
about three weeks it's finally gone.
<In Quarantine? Or in-tank? If you did this in tank, then the Crypt
will not be gone>
From a previous email one of the representatives from WWM recommended
that I treat with a product called PraziPro because my Butterfly was
flashing (he said, based on what I told him, he probably has gill
I started treating with the Prazi and ever since then my BF has
increased rapid gill movement and twitches a lot.
If in fact he did have flukes, I thought the Prazi was supposed to help
kill them.....why are they getting worse?
<Are they flukes? If you remove the fish and freshwater dip him, you
might see one or both of two things that would give you a better idea:
If he stops flashing afterwards, then it is probably flukes. If you can
see specks on the base of the dip container (usually white, so a dark
dip container might be prudent), then they also could be flukes.
Removal of these and placed under a cheap microscope will confirm. If
neither of these happen, then it is probably not flukes>.
He has been clear of spots for over two weeks
<Could have just cycled off... the fish may still be infested with
Crypt.. in the gills, thus the heavy breathing & flashing>
and I proceeded with the full treatment recommended for QS. Please
<Another possibility here... medication in the water can/ does
irritate fishes, to the point where they exhibit 'flashing'
behaviour. You might find that with the removal of the medication and
improved water quality this will ease off>.
Thank you folks
<No problem, Simon>
Re: 26/02/10 Stumped.... Forcipiger
Yes he is in a 40g quarantine tank.
I am going to lose my long nose, this morning I woke up and his gills
are moving very fast and he's just in the middle of the tank
gliding in the water.
<Mmm, don't give up hope. What are your tests for ammonia/
nitrite? Is the fish feeding?>
I also have an Auriga BF in the same tank which I previously treated
for Oodinium and he is fine but my long
nose is not.
<Mmm, you have been treating for three different things? Likely only
one was the cause/ problem here.. a pointer to the fact that correct
diagnosis is vitally important to do BEFORE any fishes are
Seems like ever since I dosed with PraziPro a second time, all things
got worse. What do you think?
<I think you have been using too many medications, without certain
knowledge of what you are treating. I would remove all with some carbon
& a skimmer, keep ammonia/ nitrite down and try to get the fish
feeding, see if he can recover while you consider your next
I also use baking soda to buffer the water and ever since I put it in,
there's like a smoke in the water.
<You've used too much, this will not help the fish breathing -
can irritate it. This should precipitate out and the water will clear.
. maybe a large water change w/ out the baking soda might be
appropriate. I never do this in quarantine anyway, because a higher pH
means that any ammonia in the water is in it's more toxic form.
Just standard salinity will be fine, maybe in this case lowering it a
couple of points might help the fish w/ osmosis>
I can see this in the flow from the filter
under the tank light. Is this unusual?
Re: 27/02/10 Re: Stumped.... 2/28/10
Ok. My nitrite and ammonia are zero.
<That is good news, and makes this much easier to manage>
Both of them were feeding but now only the Raccoon is. The Auriga looks
at the food and grabs it but doesn't swallow it.
<Mmm, maybe some damage from the medications..>
I am going to do what you said but I just don't understand why
they're breathing fast constantly.
<Why do you have these separated from the main system? Are you some
way into a 'fallow' period for crypt? If not, if there is no
improvement with the removal of the meds from the system I would
consider returning the one
at least to the display>
And they both had one gill closed at certain times. I've done
everything I could at this point. Hopefully it's
just the baking soda and it's harmless.
<You might find with the removal of the med from the water and a
water change things improve>.
<No problem, Simon>
Re: 27/02/10 Re: Stumped.... 3/1/10
Yes I'm letting my tank be without any life.
<Ok, don't put the fish back yet then>
And I did remove the meds and that's when I noticed both fish only
using one gill to breathe.
After a freshwater dip they seem to be full of life for a good day.
Then the rapid breathing starts again.
<So the dip provided some relief? This is a clue.. I would dip
watch, and see if anything identifiable comes out in the dip
The Prazi pro did not work so I am assuming this isn't a fluke.
So the only other possibility this is leaning toward is the start of
ich or Velvet right?
<No, there are others... as posted.. incl. the meds themselves, the
I just dosed another of Quinine yesterday morning. Do you think I
should keep this up or just skip on the dosing and leave the water
<You have not yet diagnosed the problem, and you state these meds
have not yet worked, so I would cease for the moment. Your nitrite
& ammonia are zero, so you have some time here...I would cease the
medications, do the
water change, try to nurse the fish back to health..get it to feed.
Freshwater dip the fish and watch.. if this provides relief then it is
likely not crypt or velvet as these are too far embedded for freshwater
to have an effect. You may have already treated the initial cause here
with your previous administrations. Simon>.
Re: 01/03/10 Re: Stumped.... Forcipiger
Ok thanks a lot for getting back, I am going to do this now.
<Please write back with your results, Simon>
02/03/10 Re: Stumped. Multiple medications, no
diagnosis, not listening, QT tanks. Forcipiger, other BF
My Raccoon is better and swimming around more. <Good> My Auriga
will not eat no matter what I do, the tank was left medicine free like
you suggested for three days and no change.
<Impossible. I suggested this on the 26th Feb, and again on the 1st
of March. You then dose QS on the 1st of March AFTER I suggest you
remove it. It is now the 3rd and you posted this yesterday on the
He's wasting away and I just feel it's something more than
<Yes, the fish is stressed out. It is probably your own actions, NOT
some 'unknown and mysterious pathogen' causing this. People
always want to find some other solution that means it is not their own
fault, but invariably there is no other solution. What size is this
About five days ago he was eating like a pig then all of a sudden his
bones start showing (the time frame in which he went from healthy to
unhealthy was unbelievable, I almost felt like I was seeing things). I
have tried Mysis, algae sheets, algae tabs, brine shrimp,
angel/butterfly formula, Spirulina and omega brine, you name it. He
still goes for it but he doesn't swallow it.
<Damage from all the medications you've been chucking in,
probably. Keep trying to get it to feed, with just Mysis, and try to
keep yourself as 'small' as possible. A giant hovering over a
small QT tank is enough to stress anyone out>
And I also can't understand for the life of me why it still looks
like there's smoke in my water. I didn't add any baking soda
like you suggest and I STILL have water that looks like someone took a
drag of a cigarette and exhaled into my tank, lol.
<? Your own actions.. and a clue as to why the fish is not feeding.
Perhaps set up another QT tank with clean water and move the filters
and fish over, acclimated>
Is this harmful to the fish? What could it be from?
<You have been using multiple medications...>
My ammonia is zero, nitrite is
zero and nitrate is below 30ppm, ph is around 8 and salinity is at
about .019. <1.019, ok for the minute> Any ideas?
<Posted, or perhaps moving the fish back to the display>
After seeing how the fish reacted without medicine
<When? Never. They have not been without medication for any length
I realize that there is definitely something going on. <Me too>
So I went ahead and treated with PraziPro again because at this point,
all symptoms lead to gill flukes.
<?? Did you freshwater dip these like you were advised to try and
check? I told you that chucking medications willy-nilly into the tank
could easily be your problem here, and what do you do? You chuck some
more in, and not just one but two! Problems are not always 'unseen
parasites or bacteria' but quite often are the result of aquarists
own actions. And you wonder why your water is 'smoky'. Would
you have much of an appetite if the air you were breathing was full of
chemicals? Right now you have a starving Butterfly and a mixture of
Quinine Sulphate and PraziPro in your tank. This is madness, and a
pre-cursor for disaster.>
Since PraziPro is considered a very non-stressful medication I figured
it would be ok on the fish.
<But your fish are sick, and you don't know why. You are taking
a 'crap shoot' approach here, and this approach more often that
not kills fishes. I warned you about this>
Before I did this I went ahead and called the specialist at the company
listed on the PraziPro bottle and he was also
convinced we are dealing with gill flukes.
<Did you put one under a microscope and send him a photograph? No.
Did you tell him that you have already tried treating with this twice
before and it has not worked? I doubt it>.
The fish have no spots, they're not flashing and the Quinine
Sulfate did not help any with slowing down gill movement.
<Why would it?>
At this point, the only symptoms are rapid breathing and
<They will do this anyway in a QT tank because of the stress,
especially in the presence of chemicals! It is likely there are no
parasites in there, especially with the cocktail of drugs you have been
Simon, after two weeks of these symptoms, by this time I would see some
spots or body slime if this was Velvet or Crypt. Right?
<Oh, dear. I repeat my previous advice to you and we'll see
where we go. The biggest danger to this fish here (since ammonia/
nitrite are both zero) is the lack of food. This should be your
priority. Fishes often will lose their appetite in conditions of stress
and in the presence of meds. You need to remove this stress from the
fish and get it to feed, otherwise it will die. It is that simple. Do
this by stopping the medications, giving it some more space if
possible, maybe moving back to the display via a freshwater dip. I
repeat, again, the presence of medication in the water can also show
these symptoms on fishes. You are your own worst enemy here. Calm down,
think clearly, improve the conditions for the fish and get them to
When my fish had velvet before it's almost like they "go
nuts" and after about four days of that they die rather fast. This
just doesn't seem to be similar to that of Velvet
symptoms.....through my experience anyway. I'd like to have your
<Please stop thinking about parasites, YOU are the problem. This
fish needs food. Feed it>.
Thanks so much
<No problem, Simon>
Re: 02/03/10 Re: Stumped. Multiple medications, no diagnosis,
not listening, ...
Wow, way to go Simon! With all that pessimism in the last email I feel
hopeless and all motivation has gone down the tubes. I guess the thin
Auriga will just have to die, I refuse to buy another QT tank.
<I have given you a couple of options that do not involve buying a
new tank. Shall I repeat them again? Ok, here we go... 1) Remove the
med, improve the conditions and get the fish to feed in QT. 2) Move the
fish to the display and get it to feed there.>
I didn't pay enough money for the fish to put more money into
another tank. I did everything I could do (for me).
<No, you did not. First, your lack of quarantine in the first place
has introduced the parasites, followed by your 'shotgun'
approach to treating with various meds without a diagnosis, followed
lastly by your failure to take the advice you were given>
Thanks for the input, next time be more optimistic with someone whose
asking for your advice.
<Jay, I spent a long time giving you advice here, and was happy to,
over a period of days. This advice you have ignored. I have to ask
myself, and you, what is the point in coming back for advice time and
again if you don't bother to follow it? Am I wasting my
Otherwise, like this particular situation, all goes down the tubes with
your showering of negativity.
<Negativity, no. I was trying (in a blunt manner, since you had not
listened up to then) to get you to see the truth of what is happening,
since tip-toeing around the subject is no good for anyone. I/ we are
not here to molly-coddle and be nice to you. We are here to help you
with your fish problems.>
Have a good one
<Thank you, Simon>
Holes in head on Yellow Long Nosed
<Good AM, good gosh!>
I have been treating a Yellow Long Nose Butterflyfish from whitespot
with copper treatment, which I have found very effective although in
the first week it is essential to test the copper level at least three
times a day in the first 7 days as it drops very quickly and overdosing
is very easy to do and will kill fish in hours.
<Thank you for (re) stating these facts>
Anyway, after two weeks the whitespot seems to have gone but the Yellow
Longnose Butterfly now has small holes in his head.
<Resultant from the copper exposure>
Any ideas of what they are would be helpful and hopefully a cure.
<Just good water quality and nutrition as detailed here:
There is also a small about 2inch Copperband in with him which is a new
fish I cannot get to eat anything including, brine/mysis shrimp or
fresh tuna meat.
PS The salinity is also low 1.010 which by itself did not kill the
<The SpG needs to be returned to near seawater strength... as in
"good water quality"... Bob Fenner>
Sick Yellow Long Nose Butterfly, env...?
7/25/08 Hello, First I just wanted to thank you for your
time! I am new to the hobby, but my tank is not! I have a 110
gallon reef tank I got from a friend, it has been established for
2 years plus. I am in the military and got it from someone within
an hour from where I live so the move was painless. The tank
tests out good, 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, 8.2 ph,
salinity 1.025, phosphates 0, calcium around 550. <Mmm, this
is too high... what is your alkalinity, Magnesium
concentration?> I have a yellow long nose butterfly ,who even
though I say is sick really isn't, he eats fine and
doesn't act any different I just want to know if what I see
is bad. He has a small brownish spot on his side that looks a
little slimy if you will, and at the right angle you can see it
very well. <Mmm... might be an injury... but could be due to
water quality issues... or a bit of both> He eats great and is
constantly looking in the rocks for more food, but, occasionally
he rubs himself against the rocks to itch or whatever. Can you
shed some light on what you think his illness is? If it will go
away on its own then I wont do anything, he is 100% healthy,
could it be possibly a bruise? well let me know, there is nothing
in my tank that could pick on him, all peaceful fish, 4 false
percs, royal Gramma, random gobies. Well, let me know, mike
<I'd be reading re the chemical issues mentioned above...
Reading re Forcipigers as well... are you familiar with using our
search tool, indices? Bob Fenner> Re: Sick Yellow Long Nose
Butterfly 7/25/08 my alk is perfect at about 2.7,
I just had added too much calcium supplement. <Ahh! What
brand? Other components?> I think he injured it on the live
rock the first couple of days being too hyper and scared.
<Very easily so... and should heal on its own in time if
so> Thanks for the quick response, also, are 4 t5 high outputs
enough for an open brain, thanks, mike <... Should be...
Trachyphyllias can be set up higher if not... BobF>
Re: Sick Yellow Long Nose Butterfly... who knows what...
induced env. troubles 7/26/08 the calcium
supplement is purple up, <... please, stop writing, and start
reading... on WWM... Do search before...> I was adding once
weekly, but now I know that I only need to add it probably once
every 2 or 3 weeks. I am going to not add any for a while to let
it go back down, I am also using a supplement that I know you are
not a fan of, lol, I think it is white snow or something like
that, <... is wall board paste... two li'l Squishies...
More disdain for consumers... you> I read in your threads all
the time you think it is worthless lol, which is why I
haven't used it lately. <Nor your spelling/grammar
checker> I am glad to have found your website, it is very nice
to be able to get quick responses from experts and not LFS
ignorant know it alls lol. Did you get a degree in Marine
Biology? thanks again, mike <... Keep reading Mike... and
following directions if you want our help. BobF>
Problems With Longnose Butterfly -- 04/01/08 Hi,
<<Hello>> I need help with my Longnose butterfly.........My
tank has been running since December and levels are good for Ammonia,
Nitrite and Nitrate. <<Mmm'¦I hope 'good' means
zero, zip, nada'¦>> I am in the middle of a
hypo-salinity treatment and this butterfly has shown signs of not being
able to close his mouth. <<I think these treatments serve well as
'dips' (i.e. -- pH adjusted freshwater for a 'short
term' bath), but I am not a fan of reducing salinity in the
display/quarantine tank for extended periods as I feel the stress
induced often compounds/creates more issues than the hypo-salinity
resolves>> It seems to want to eat but doesn't know how any
more because its mouth is always open. I have had an ich breakout that
is why I am in hypo-salinity. <<In the display? This will do
little to nothing in the end (except maybe kill a fish or two), though
there are others who may argue differently'¦better to remove
the fishes to quarantine for proper treatment and let the display sit
fallow for 6-weeks or more (please read here and among the related
links in blue: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm )>> I
gave him a fresh water dip to see if that would help as he was flicking
around in circles and it seems to have helped with that but still is
unable to close his mouth. My tank is 90 gal with a 30 gal sump. Many
thanks, David Cooper <<Well David, not a lot to go on here
really'¦it's hard to say just what may be ailing the
Butterfly. It might be some kind of physical trauma, which may resolve
on its own'¦or it may be a reaction to/complications from the
hypo-salinity. Regards, EricR>>
Sick Butterfly 03/26/2008 I recently added a
little Longnose Butterfly fish to my 30 long. Well I woke up this
morning and noticed he was not swimming. He has been very active
up until this morning. He swims a little bit and them crashes at
the bottom. He appears to be breathing really heavy.
<<Firstly, this tank is too small, this fish needs at least
50+ gallons. The heavy breathing sounds common to ammonia
poisoning. All though, these do sometimes exhibit some real
strange behavior patterns>> He shares a tank with some
hermit crabs, a long spin sea urchin (any chance he was poked by
this guy, no sign of puncture.) and a maroon clown fish.
<<One would expect to see damage if the fish has tangled
with the urchin>> What can I do to help him get better.
Here is a picture attached. The salinity levels are fine, the
tank is fairly new. About three weeks. He's got about 30 lbs
of cured live rock as well. <<YIKES....Has this tank been
cycled? If not, it needs it. If this is the case, the fish need
removing to cycled quarantine while the tank itself cycles. As
said above, if the opportunity is there to return this fish, then
its best you do because of the current tank size.>> I
can't find any sign of disease on the outside. Here is a
picture as well. Thanks Spencer Hall <<Thanks for the
questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>
Sick? Longnose Butterfly 2/20/08 Hi. <Hey there!
Scott F. in today!> I recently purchase a 3 in. Longnose
Butterfly (2-3 weeks ago). I saw it feed at the store and after
about 2 days it began to feed at home. It eats well and gets
along with its tankmates (3 damsels and 1 clown). About a week
ago I noticed white blotches ( I am not really sure how to
describe then) on its transparent fins. The fish still ate well
but after a couple more day I noticed the same blotches on its
tailfin. The rest of the fish has no visible blemishes. He eats
and swims fine and does not try to "scratch" himself. I
don't think it is ich b/c it is only on those transparent
fins and nowhere else. I have now noticed small tears appearing
on the fins. Do you have an idea what might be wrong? If so could
you suggest a treatment. Salinity is approximately 1.022 and
nitrates and ammonia levels are at less than the detection limit.
The other fish are asymptomatic. Should I quarantine the fish?
Thanks, Chris <Well, Chris- it's hard to guess what it
could be. These little blotches could be some form of parasitic
or even fungal infection...a bunch of possibilities. In the
absence of other symptoms, such as scratching, heavy breathing,
etc., I would probably observe the fish a bit more before taking
action. "Action" would initially consist of isolating
the fish for continued observation. I am not a big fan of
"prophylactically" medicating fishes, unless we know
what we are treating. If the symptoms seem to disappear, I would
not even move the fish. If they do start to manifest (symptoms,
such as scratching, heavy breathing, etc.), I would isolate the
fish and attempt to ID the disease before embarking on a course
of chemical treatment. Medications can cause "collateral
damage" issues, so we don't want to rush to treatment
unless necessary. I guess my recommendation at this point is
further observation before action! Best of luck to you. Regards,
Re: Sick? Longnose Butterfly... need to read, understand,
act... NOW! 2/21/08 Hi. I sent an earlier message
(forward). After getting home form work today I now think the
fish has ich (or now has ich in addition to other problems).
White spots were all over all his fins and now are
distinguishable on his head as well. Looks like I introduced him
to the normal tank too soon. The other fish in the normal tank
still look OK but the butterfly may end up with company in the OT
soon. I guess I will just have to keep an eye on things. Let me
know if you have any suggestions. Chris <... What? Please read
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files
above... You need to do this soon... Bob Fenner>
Long Nose Butterfly/Acclimation 1/29/08 Good
Morning Crew! <Hello Gans> I have had a Long Nose Butterfly in my
tank for a 6 days now. He is the only fish in a 60gal/LR 6 month old
tank. He was doing great for the first 3 days & ate everything I
fed him but since yesterday he is just hiding in the same spot among
the live rock and doesn't want to come out. When I feed him Mysis
he doesn't seem interested anymore. I gave him a clam this morning
and didn't seem interested either. I understand from the material
in WWM that these guys take time to adjust etc but I am asking because
he was doing great for the first few days but now has become a recluse.
I don't see any physical evidence of something going on. I have
increased the temp from 75 to 78 and turned off the MaxiJet 1200 inside
the tank that I had for extra circulation. <No, no, turn that pump
back on, these fish need good circulation.> SG is 1.025 though. I
see you recommend 1.020. Anything else I can try to help him adjust?
<Since their primary source of food is zooplankton, I'd try
feeding some Cyclop-Eeze. I would do a 10% water change with the makeup
water adjusted to 1.020. The goal isn't to get down to 1.020 but
somewhat lower than 1.025. Keep in mind that these fish require very
good water quality. I would suggest using a good chemical media such as
Chemi Pure. Do keep a close eye on the fish for signs of parasitical
infection and, if present, quarantine and treat immediately. You may
want to keep the lights off until this fish hopefully acclimates to
it's new surroundings.> Thanks <You're welcome. James
(Salty Dog)> Gans
|Sick yellow long nose butterfly 9/20/07
Good evening from Michigan, <Howdy from Turks and Caicos. Am out
visiting> I picked up a yellow long nose butterfly from LFS
three days ago. LFS had had him for three days. I gave him 10
minute freshwater / methyl blue dip and then into 10g QT tank.
First two days he was quite active although not eating. Today,
third day, he is listless and has developed an ugly spot on his
side. See attached photo's. <Good ones> Spot is whitish
in middle with black edge, about 1/4" x 1/2 ". Can't
see any external parasite but as someone rather new to hobby, not
sure I'd recognize it anyway. Am reading all the info I can
find on your site but in the end, helpful to have some experienced
eyes actually see a picture. Any thoughts on what it is...treatment
options? Russell Furst <Appears to be a trauma... likely from
capture... just showing up now... Perhaps a bacterial involvement
consequently... Perhaps an immersion bath in slightly diluted
system water (a few thousandths lighter in terms of spg... by
adding freshwater) with a Furan compound at strength... 250 mg. per
gallon let's say... for five minutes. Bob Fenner>
Keeping Cleaner Shrimp / Butterfly Possible Ich --
06/28/07 Hi Team Thanks for the advice you've given in the
past. I have a couple (unfortunately) long of questions about new
arrivals. Yesterday I tried my 3rd attempt at a cleaner shrimp. The
first survived a week in QT, the second 24 hours so I decided with the
3rd to go straight to the show tank. After a 2 hour drip
acclimatization process the shrimp looked pretty weak. Within an hour
of putting into the tank it was dead. <Mmm, something very amiss
here... likely with some aspect of water quality> My parameters all
look good SG 1.024, PH 8.3, Nutrients undetectable and temp 79F. Did
the Acclimatization take too long starving it of oxygen ? <Not
likely> The water it arrived in had quite a high PH (1.027/8)
<Mmm, specific gravity> hence the 2 hour acclimatization.
<Needs much more time for this accommodation... days> Any ideas
why I don't have much luck with these. BTW its a 90G FOWLR, ETSS
reef devil, Fuge, UV. 2 x ocellaris, 1 x Kole tang, Plenty of
worms/pods/snails/macro and micro algae etc. <Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/shrimpdisfaqs.htm and the linked files
above> My second question is regarding a yellow longnose butterfly
that arrived yesterday and is in QT. He looks very happy, although not
eating in first attempt - will try again today and expect it to take a
while. <Yes> Only question is a few very small white spots on its
Caudal fin. They look like air bubbles but they don't seem to be
moving so more likely a parasite hole ?. <Maybe...> If the fish
doesn't show any other signs - spots on its body, erratic breathing
or movement, sluggishness etc. How long should I wait before ich
treatment ? <Until real symptoms show> Unfortunately the QT was
used for snails previously and has a small amount of
substrate/rock/mushrooms. I didn't want to remove this prior to
putting the fish in as I was hoping it would help with the biological
filter and I thought the rock would help the butterfly feel at home and
give it something to pick on. <I agree. Would have done the same>
There is also an Eheim Classic. This QT has been running for quite a
while. <Good> I tried taking a photo but the dots are not showing
up. I will try again later after cleaning the only exposed side of the
QT. The rest is blacked out but there is lighting. Thanks -Peter
<Better by far to be cautious, patient in these circumstances... Bob
Re: Keeping Cleaner Shrimp / Butterfly Possible
Ich -- 06/28/07 I forgot to say, the butterfly is
not picking at the live rock in the QT at all. It also ignored some
live brine shrimp. It has been in QT for 36 hours. <The picking is a
good sign. BobF>
Re: Keeping Cleaner Shrimp / Butterfly Possible
Ich -- 06/28/07 Thanks Bob, Firstly, my typo mistake about SG/PH.
<No worries...> Sorry. Next time I will try a much longer drip
knowing it won't starve of oxygen. <Ah, good. A thousandth
(0.001) difference made up every two days is about right> Now onto
the butterfly. I'm concerned that it doesn't seem to be picking
at the rock or showing any interest in live brine shrimp or frozen
Mysis. <Oh, sorry... thought I'd read that it was picking on the
rock... The other foods are unnatural... all take a while to "get
used to" in captivity... days to weeks> Is there anything else
to look for. I read that an open clam may interest it. <Mmm, not
this species likely... more "worm like" or sessile small
crustaceans would be better> Is this just a regular clam from the
supermarket opened with a shank and dropped in ? Your article on the
longnose said red marks on the mouth are a very bad sign. <Yes>
This one has a small amount of red in the bottom jaw right at the front
but I can't tell if this is a mark or its teeth. Its very small.
There is also a very small (pin head) red dot further back on his jaw
at the side. Thanks -Peter <I do hope your Forcipiger will rally.
|Re: Keeping Cleaner Shrimp / Butterfly Possible
Ich -- 06/28/07 Thanks Bob. I'm hoping too. I've
attached a couple of pics that show he white spots on fin and
redness near mouth. <I see this/these> Do you know what a
normal breathing rate would be for this fish ? <Mmm, 30-40 gill
movements per minute or so> Would it be comparable to my Kole
tang ? <A bit less> I'm considering lowering SG to 1.020
to help relieve stress. <Mmm, possibly a good move...> I know
that's not the same as my main tank but my priority now is to
get him comfortable in the QT and worry about transferring later
on. Do you think this is a good idea ? Thanks -Peter <If you
have no invertebrates... not much on/in your LR/LS that might be
mal-affected, I would do this. BobF>
Forcipiger Butterfly Fish With Badly Damaged
Mouth/Snout -- 06/11/07 I have this Longnose Butterfly fish for
last 6 months. Awesome fish, eats out of my hands. I came back home and
to my horror I saw that the fish actually has broken its nose.
<<Uh-oh...not good>> I have no clue how it happened.
<<Obviously some physical trauma...any large and or aggressive
fishes in this system with the Butterfly?>> It hurt to see him
like this. <<Indeed>> What should I do?
<<Firstly...remove this fish from the display and place in a
hospital/quarantine tank>> Will he heal up, will the nose
regenerate? <<I'm afraid not>> I believe it must have
stuck its nose in a crevice and got startled. <<Mmm,
possibly...or maybe this fish had already received some physical trauma
to its snout during capture/transport that has compounded through
whatever circumstance (self-affliction or otherwise) in the display
tank>> If he can be saved then I would love too see him survive.
<<Will depend on the severity of the damage and whether or not
the fish can still feed, and survive the possibility of secondary
bacterial infection>> Please advise. Here is the link to the
forum where I have its pictures posted
<<This looks very, very, bad...the 'break' appears to be
very high up on the mouth/snout. As already stated, remove this fish to
a tank where it can be isolated/treated/closely observed. Use a scalpel
or 'very' sharp scissors to remove the dangling snout. You can
then carefully swab the wound with iodine, being very careful to keep
it out of the fish's eye and gills. Observe the fish closely for
signs of infection (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/infectio.htm) and to
determine if the fish can still consume food. If the fish can't
feed (as is my suspicion here), then in my opinion it should be
Sincerely, Vick <<Sorry I don't have a better prognosis.
Forcipiger flavissimus with 'broken' rostrum
4/6/07 Hello Crew- I have a bit of a dilemma at the moment that I
would appreciate your advice on. <Okay> This evening as I went by
the aquarium to see what a dog was barking at, apparently my butterfly
was startled. Hearing an odd noise, to my dismay he had rocketed from
the tank and was floundering on the carpet. <Yeeikes!> We quickly
netted him with the large fine net kept on hand for him, and returned
him to the aquarium. There is only a very small space, perhaps 1 to 1.5
inches that he escaped through. I looked him over once he was back in
as they are prone to problems from mouth and fin tears. <Yes>
Unfortunately it looks like he "broke" his nose. The upper
portion of the rostrum appears cracked at the bridge, about the
equivalent of where a humans' eyeglasses would sit. He also appears
to have a slight tear/swelling at the back of the side of the mouth.
<Not good> Normally this fish, called Dick after President Nixon,
swims with his mouth closed or only slightly open. Now he seems unable
to close it to less than 1/8". I normally would take a picture to
send, but do not wish to startle him more. He appears active and near
his normal routine at the moment. My next thoughts are to keep an eye
on him and move him to a hospital tank if need be tomorrow to medicate
with Nifurpirinol or tetracycline. Ultimately I may face the sad task
of euthanization but would prefer to abate the issue if possible. Thank
you very much for your advice. Regards- Jake <Only time can/will
tell if this fish will survive with this breakage... No surgery or
treatment is advised. Bob Fenner>
Bumps on long nosed
butterfly 2/13/07 Hi <Hello> I have been reading
your forum for a year now. You have helped me with many
problems. <Glad to realize this> The fish time <Heeee!> I
got ich I started a QT tank and have used it ever since.
<Good> I just purchased a long nosed butterfly and blue
headed wrasse. I had them in qt for 3 weeks
now. Everything was great until my wife noticed bumps
all over the long nosed butterfly. I know its not ich
but I cant find anything on what it could be. He is
acting normal and eating great. It almost looks like
poison ivy if you ever had that. My LFS said it could be
bacterial and to treat it with Furazone green, which I already
had. I've been soaking the Mysis shrimp in it twice a
day. The fish is still doing great but looks no
different. Would you know by my description what it
could be. <Mmm, I do suspect this is "nothing catching"...
and would not have it deter me/you from placing this Forcipiger>
Also, I always QT for at least 4 weeks. If
its bacterial can the wrasse catch it. <Not likely, no>
My QT readings are all 0 with nitrates at
20. The tank is a 15 gallon that I do 2-5gallon water
changes a week. Thanks for your time Dave. <Nice to make
your acquaintance. As stated, I would go forward with permanently
placing this specimen. Not likely a condition that will spread, and
much more to be gained by moving it. Bob Fenner>
Swollen Long Nose Butterfly 7/19/06 Hello Ladies and
Gentlemen, <Tamara> I have struck a bit of a problem with my long
nose butterfly. He has become quite "swollen" (the best way
of describing it) around the top and bottom sections of his body. I
have searched your site and have found nothing on this, only swelling
around the eyes and mouth (which my fish does not have). <Yikes...
the condition is/can be termed "ascites", bloat...
dropsical... many causes... some more primary than others... but
something causing fluid to leave cells, tissues... and occupy
intracellular space, body cavities...> I took the fish, with minimal
stress, to my fish shop after they said they have never heard of such
thing and would need to see it. Consequently he put me on to your
website. They do have an enormous amount of experience but said they
have never seen anything like it and will look into it themselves
further also. Looking from behind; say the fish is 3mm in width; where
it is swollen at the top and bottom, it is more like in excess of 10mm
wide - like someone has pumped it full of air! It is still feeding and
active - apart from the "swelling" it is behaving fine. Any
reply would be greatly appreciated as I am rather concerned. Thank you.
Regards Andrew Brown Melbourne Australia. <It may be that there is a
"simple" bacterial involvement here (from?) that can be
thwarted with the application of one/some form of
antimicrobial/antibiotic. If this were a very valuable fish or a bunch
of them, I would avail myself of injectable material (Chloramphenicol
succinate would be my first choice)... For home/hobbyist purposes, it
may be that a water-administered product is best... a Furan compound:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/antibiofaqs.htm and a search on
WWM with the name. If this/these are not available locally or easily,
do look into what you can get in the way of a gram-negative,
broad-spectrum antibiotic... administer at 250 mg. per actual ten
gallons of water... change a good part of the water out and replace,
re-treat every three days for three treatments... Not in the
main/display system... Bob Fenner>
Re: Swollen Long Nose Butterfly 7/22/06 Hi Bob,
<Tamara> Thank you so much for your reply. My fish shop said your
site, and your staff, would be extremely helpful and he was 100%
correct. I will track down a antimicrobial/antibiotic today. Just for
my own knowledge, will this, or can this affect the other fish in the
tank; or is fish specific (i.e.. is it contagious and should expect
more fish to become this way?) <Not able to say, but generally such
involvements are "not catching"> Secondly, was there a way
of preventing this, or is it just a pure random occurrence? Thanks so
much. Tamara <Mostly the latter. One can do their best to provide
optimized, stable conditions, good nutrition... and still have such
incidents. Bob Fenner>
Longnose Butterfly 30 Jun 2005
I've had my yellow longnose butterfly (Forcipiger flavissimus) for
about 3 months. Initially the only foods he would eat were
live black worms and frozen Mysis shrimp. He started eating
other foods pretty quickly, and eats anything I feed the tank except
for Cyclop-eeze. He's always been very active, cruising
the tank and picking through the rocks. I noticed a few days ago that
he was staying in the back of the tank more, and swimming around
less. He has been eating less also. I recently
changed my lights from 2 actinic and 2 white to 2 white and 2
50/5o's so the tank is a little brighter. The only other
change in the tank has been the addition of a 2 inch long blue
tang. She doesn't seem to bother the butterfly at all,
and neither do any of the other fish. The butterfly still
comes to the front of the tank at feeding time but then doesn't
seem very interested in the food. His color is good, he doesn't
look thin, and he looks normal in every way except this change in
behavior. Any ideas on what could be going on with
him? I don't want to lose my favorite fish! <Do a
google search on the WWM, keyword "butterflies" and/or
"longnose butterfly". Read the info along with the
FAQ's on these fish. I think you will find the help you
are looking for here. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: ailing butterfly thanks -- 6/31/05 have done so and
didn't find anything similar to what I'm seeing. My
biggest concern is that he's gone from being a greedy eater to
barely picking at the food. any thoughts? I was
wondering if perhaps he could have a blockage? <I really can't
answer the question on the blockage, I'd be
guessing. Being you've read the info and FAQ's on
butterflies, you are aware that they are not the easiest fish to keep
to start with. Pristine water quality and a healthy diet are
a must. Live copepods would be a good start in triggering an
eating response. There are places on the web that do sell
them. James (Salty Dog)>
|New longnose butterfly with spots
|Hello, <Howdy> Some background: 55 gal
saltwater reef tank approx 14 years old. Wet/dry filter, protein
skimmer. Lots of live rock, Sailfin tang, Regal angel...
<Pygoplites?> ...Squarespot Anthias, flame angel, blue devil
damsel, cleaner shrimp, leather coral, fluorescent green carpet
anemone, some plants. <All in a 55?> Regular water changes,
addition of trace elements and calcium. Today we (my wife and I)
purchased a longnose butterfly from a shop we have done business
with for years. In the store the only thing noticeable was a small
bump on one side that an aggressive damsel was picking at. Feeling
sorry for the poor guy we bought him and he is now in our reef
tank. Here's the catch. When we got him home we went thru an
acclamation period of about 3 hours, floating the bag, mixing tank
water with the bag water, lights out in the tank, etc. When
we finally did put him into the tank, and later turned on the
lights, we noticed small (very, very small) white spots on his
head, and fins. His body looks clean, and the spots don't
appear to be raised. These were not at all evident in the
store's lighting, but seem to be enhanced by the blue actinic
lighting in our tank (my guess). Not sure if this is early
stage of ich or what, so here we are. Please look at the
attached photos and give us your opinion. Thanks very
much in advance. Look forward to your reply. Michael &
Gulnar - Bethel, CT <Mmm, looks like Cryptocaryon rather than
"normal" stress coloration markings to me... I would
(have) quarantined this and other new specimens if you had a larger
system... as it is, with such a tiny tank, so much life already, I
would NOT have added any more... possibly upsetting whatever magic
dynamic you had... What will you do now? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
Longnose butterfly My longnose butterfly has developed a dull
red streak along its spine. <Not good> It is internal (not a
surface scratch) as it is only visible when viewed from the side when
the fish is swimming at the front of the tank i.e.. with light from
behind. I added a piece of artificial coral the day
before, which I have since removed after noticing the redness on the
butterfly. <Do you think the coral affected your water
chemistry?> I have fifteen other fish in my 200 gal, all
look fine. The butterfly is active and eating
well. <Ah, good> Could it be a toxic reaction from
picking at the artificial coral? <Maybe, but doubtful... if the
coral was made for aquarium use... and your other livestock show no
symptoms> Are there any diseases that produce this
symptom? Please advise. Thanks, Peter <A few diseases are
associated with this symptom, mainly infectious (septicemic, bacterial,
internal). Boosting the animal's immune system by food
supplementation, improving water quality are important steps here. Bob
Longnose butterfly I feed it frozen Mysis, Nori
seaweed and reef carnivore pellets. Nitrate, pH, alkalinity
are all fine. It is still very active and eating
well. I was looking through Nick Dakin's book
'Complete Encyclopedia of the Saltwater Aquarium' and found a
picture of a longnose on p. 196 which has a similar
appearance. Hope you have that book. I will
pay close attention to feeding and monitoring the
water. Thanks. Peter <Peter, I would also include
"Mega Marine Angel" or some other type of vegetable for the
fish. Good Luck MikeB.>
|Sick Longnose BF? 03/07/06 Hi
all! I have another question for you fine folks. I just
got my Longnose Butterfly and he has done great so
far. He eats very well, and he loves to swim around like
he's strutting his stuff. <Is then> But i noticed today
that he has a little red spots , at the base of his beak at both
sides. I attached a picture for you. <Unfortunately
these didn't "come through"> I researched other
pictures on the net and none of them had his little
spots. Is this something i should be worried about or is
something that varies from fish to fish. <Some reddening does
occur in Forcipigers... due to? Stress? From? In general this is
not a sign to treat their system... unless it is affecting feeding
behavior> His skin is clear right there and the red is
underneath the skin. Thanks for the help!! Nick
<I would not "panic" here. Bob Fenner>
|Re: Sick Longnose? 03/07/06 Sorry for the
picture not going through. I will try to attach it as a
file this time. <No worries. And do see it here> Today it
seem to be not as red as it was yesterday so maybe it was a
"stress situation, upon arrival, into his new
home. He eats very well so i guess it is not a problem.
<I hope not as well> I the picture can help. Or maybe it
could help someone else since a popular fish. Thank you
very much for my newfound peace of mind. <Welcome. Do see the
"blood mark"... appears to be well-defined... likely from
a "bump" into something and likely will heal of its own
accord. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Butterflyfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
by Robert (Bob) Fenner