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FAQs on Basslets/Grammas Disease/Health
Related Articles: Grammas,
Related FAQs: Grammas 1,
Grammas 2, Gramma Identification,
Gramma Behavior, Gramma
Compatibility, Gramma Selection,
Gramma Systems, Gramma Feeding,
Gramma Reproduction, | 
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Royal Gramma:
QT\Disease\Possible aggression. 6/27/2009
Hi there.
<Hi David.>
I have read stuff on your site until my eyes are blurry, but I never get
tired because your info is always great, and the tips and knowledge is
wonderful for those of us that need some help from time to time.
<Thank you for the kind words.>
I really need some help this time
<Well, you've come to the right place.>
I have been into fish (mostly freshwater) for 30 years. Have been doing
salt now for about a year. I'll get to the point:
My daughter gave me a Royal Gramma from the LFS for Fathers Day.
<A nice gift.>
Besides the ridiculous price she paid, the fish seemed to be healthy the
past few days. I put him in my 5G quarantine tank, as is my usual
practice,
<Very good!>
With a really small maroon clown that I just got. They get along fine,
and have been eating great (Cyclops & spectrum). The gramma has been
getting used to the tank, and is getting more out in the open with the
clown the past few days, and is showing a nice personality.
This evening when I checked them, the clown is fine as usual, but the
gramma is hiding in the corner, and sort of resting on the bottom sand.
<Uh oh.>
When I touch the glass near him, he moves away and swims back to the
corner a few seconds later. I noticed a few small white dots that look
like salt on his face. He wouldn't eat tonight, but the clown is
voracious and seems fine like always.
<Hmm.....Grammas do have small white dots on their face. It could be
marine ich (Crypt) Are they raised bumps, or are they dots? Another
distinct possibility is that the Maroon Clown is beating up on the
Gramma.>
Does this sound like a parasite such as ich ?
<Possibly. A picture would be helpful.>
My water parameters were fine when I checked them, but I did a 50% water
change and new filter cartridge just to give him the best chance to
survive. I use Instant Ocean Reef Crystals .
<Actual test numbers are always encouraged. The water change is a good
idea though.>
Should I try a freshwater dip ? Please help, my daughter and I am both
upset and want to help him !
<To rule out the possibility of aggression, I would separate the two
fish, preferably into separate QT tanks and observe. If they start
showing signs of Crypt, you can then start treatment. if it is crypt,
you will have to
follow different strategies for treatment as Clownfish are very
sensitive to copper.>
Thanks so much for any help !
<Do read here for further information about Crypt and its treatment.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cryptfaqs.htm
Again, for now, I would separate them and observe.>
David
<MikeV>
Abused Royal Gramma 5/28/2009
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hello Scott.>
First off thank you all for your volunteered time to help all the
aquarists out there.
<I think we all enjoy helping other aquarists.>
I currently have a 50 gallon FOWLR with 50 lb of live rock and a1 inch
sand bed. Water chemistry is ammonia, nitrite at zero, nitrate at 30ppm,
pH at 8.4 and SG at 1.025. Water changes are done biweekly at 20%
increments. The tank itself is 2 years old and filtration is an AquaC
Remora and two Maxijet 1200 powerheads for circulation. Tank inhabitants
are an ORA ocellaris clown (22 months in tank), Royal Gramma (18 months
in tank), Flameback (C. acanthops) angel (9 months in tank), and
Fourline (P. tetrataenia) wrasse (1.5 months in tank). I feed twice a day
with new line spectrum pellets and Spirulina in the morning and a
varying mix of frozen formula 1, 2, prime reef, and PE mysis in the
evening. Weekly I throw in a sheet of Nori for the fish to munch on. I
have 4 red legged hermit crabs and 5 turbo snails as a 'cleanup' crew.
<Scott, excellent summarization of your tank, this is how every query
should begin.>
Now for my problem, a week ago I left for a long three day weekend and
the fish went without food for 2.5 days. When I got home I found my
normally robust gramma looking sickly. Reading through WWM healthy fish
should be able to go one week without food and I've gone five days in
the past with no problems.
<And you did your research.>
The gramma's stomach appears sunken with some tail missing. It looks
like there are scales peeling off the head of the fish. And under
pectoral fin on both sides are dark blotches which look like the photos
posted on WWM of grammas jumping out of the tank. But due to the
symmetry of this condition on both sides and the overall state of the
fish I thought it was most likely due to something else. Behavior wise
it still acts like a gramma, darts in and out of the rock, eats, and
stalls at random angles.
<A great description.>
So it comes down to environment, nutrition, and disease. Aggression wise
the gramma is at the bottom in this tank. I've always been apprehensive
about adding the Fourline wrasse as they are similar shape and the
horror stories posted on WWM. The totem pole appears to go angel, wrasse
and clown, then gramma.
<This pecking order is what would be expected with these fish.>
After reading for hours on end the fish should not be psychologically
cramped for space and until now have enjoyed a successful tank. But I
know things change as fish grow. I thought nutrition wise I was doing
alright but would love to be corrected. I don't normally do vitamin
soaks but can gladly start. I can't find any articles that match my
gramma's condition but have attached photos (really hard to get a good
shot of this fish) that can hopefully help. I have a 10 gallon QT ready
to go but don't want to stress myself or the gramma trying to catch them
from the main tank if unnecessary. Any thoughts? Thanks.
<Alright, based on the time the Royal Gramma has spent in the tank, the
pecking order in the tank and the details you left me. My first though
is
that while a healthy fish should be able to go without food for a week,
it doesn't mean they want too. My guess is that without daily feedings
which
likely curb aggression in your tank, that aggression levels increased in
any one or all of your other fish, and the poor Royal Gramma got beat up
while you were gone. Keep a close eye on him for worsening of his
condition. I imagine that with normal daily feedings with nutritious
food he is going to recover just fine, so I would not contribute to it's
stress by trying to catch it. If you find the condition is
worsening then I might try to remove him to a quarantine tank, and
investigate other possibilities.>
Scott
<Good Luck. And keep me updated.
Josh Solomon>
Re: Abused Royal Gramma
06/03/09
Hi Josh,
<Hello again Scott>
Attached is my previous email. Unfortunately my gramma didn't make it.
He stopped eating and died a day after our previous email exchange. I
assume he was stressed too much to recover. He died during the night in
his upside down rock cave so by the time I got him out the hermit crabs
had done their job, making necropsy difficult. So its time to move on.
<I'm sorry, yes, the necropsy has limited usefulness after decay
begins.>
I'd love to get another Basslet but I'm afraid that adding them to my
established current inhabitants would doom them to the same abuse.
Looking through the WWM articles and the size of my tank (50 gal) I was
thinking of adding either a Pseudochromis, a Toby, another ocellaris to
make a pair, or some species that is not deemed a threat like a bottom
feeding goby. Any thoughts on these or other suggestions? Thanks for all
your help.
<Well a Royal Dottyback may allow you to keep that coloration within
your tank, while being much more aggressive, could possibly hold his own
with these other fish.
Personally I would recommend pursuing the pairing of your ocellaris,
likely an addition that would cause less stress for your tank than the
Royal Dottyback.>
Scott
<Good Luck, and do not forget to quarantine.
Josh Solomon>
Royal Gramma with Lower Jaw Problem: Gramma Health 5/19/2009
Hello Crew,
<Hi Susan>
About a month ago, I noticed that one of my Royal Grammas (I have two)
had a much changed appearance. It seemed that he had had a growth spurt
(now about 4 inches long; whereas the other is about 2 inches), the
lower jaw was quite protruded so much so that I could see its teeth, and
the eyes were sort of googly.
<Sounds like a physical injury.>
It was acting normally, although it was having difficulty feeding as it
couldn't keep food in its mouth. However, it was able to consume smaller
food particles and larger chewy bits of shrimp or krill, and didn't
appear to lose weight.
<A very good sign.>
I have a 180 gallon reef style aquarium. Water parameters are fine. It
is stocked with yellow tang, purple tang, two royal grammas, a
gold-banded maroon clownfish in an anemone, a Banggai cardinal, two
pyjama cardinals, 8 blue chromis, a longhorn cowfish, and assorted soft
corals.
<A few possible aggressors in the list.>
About two weeks ago I spoke with someone at the LFS. He thought the jaw
problem was the result of an injury (another fish grabbed onto its
mouth) and the eyes were the result of the resulting stressed state. He
recommended treating with Kanaplex by putting it in food. I did so,
treating three times over \three days. I also stepped up water changes
to 20% weekly (rather than bi-weekly).
<Not familiar with Kanaplex, but any medicating should be done in a
separate tank Do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm >
There has been no change. Other than the distended jaw and slightly
pop-eyed appearance, the larger Royal Gramma appears to be a healthy
fish. Any idea what caused the changed appearance?
<I would also suspect physical injury.>
Should I do anything, or just leave well enough alone?
<As long as the fish is eating and doesn't have any signs of infection,
I would leave it be.>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated,
<Time will tell.>
Susan
<Mike>
Royal Gramma Fin Regeneration 8/18/08 Greetings,
<Salutations> How long for a 1" Royal Gramma to regenerate tail after
nipped at by aggressive blue damsel, has been relocated, was wondering
time for regeneration of fin and will it completely regrow? <May
take a few weeks or more... will re-grow if not bitten back too far (the
hypurals)... may not be as colorful...> I cant recall but isn't it
true that the fin only regrows as far as the last bone part or something
to that extent? <Yes> he is still alive and swimming around but
75% of tail has been eaten. and he continues to feed on new life
pellets. <Good> Thanks, Matt <Welcome. Bob Fenner>
2 pictures for you, Gramma hlth./handling 10/3/08
First off, I've learned so much from your site. Thank you for
providing such a knowledgeable service, it's my first stop when I
have a marine aquarium issue or question (and I'm new to marine
husbandry, so I stop by a lot!). I picked up the Royal Gramma
yesterday, and he looked fine. Acclimation and entry into
Quarantine tank went without issue. Today it's got a dark black/grey
growth under its dorsal. <Mmm, yes... I see it in your pix>
I've tried to ID it through your site but haven't found anything
really matching. Any ideas, and if so, how to treat? <Yes... is
very likely "simply" a damaged area from this specimen being whacked
with a net, or picked up via fingers... Will likely heal on its own>
Other fish in the QT have not had any problems. A bi-color Blenny
just came out last week. Water is almost perfect Amm-0 Nitrite-0 and
Nitrate < 5 sal-1.024 Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. 2 pictures attached. <"Just" good care here
should see this animal repair. Not an uncommon situation... as
grammas are able "leapers", folks aren't careful in their moving.
Bob Fenner> |  |
Re: 2 pictures for you, Gramma hlth. f' 10/3/08 Thank
you Bob for the reply. It makes sense on your diagnosis, the LFS who
caught the Gramma had some problems and was a bit inexperienced.
He's eating and active and will get great care. BTW I read and loved
but mostly learned from your revised copy of TCA. It sits on my
coffee table. ~ Karl <Ahh! Thank you for your kind,
encouraging words. BobF> |
~Gramma Tail Completely Gone~ 8/8/08 While you
must get this all of the time I still have to tell you what an
incredible and enjoyable resource you are in the world of marine
aquatics! Thank you for your time, expertise and dedication. <Thanks>
I have a 55 gallon salt water tank with live rock, a 2” Yellow Tang,
1.5” Regal Tang, 1 False Percula, 1.5” Huma Huma Trigger, 1 Mandarin
Goby, and a Royal Gramma (and 4 turbo snails) all of which have been
together for over 3 months now with no fighting, etc. <All but the
clowns and Gramma will need larger quarters, and soon.> I realize
that as some of these fish become larger they will likely become
increasingly aggressive and will have to be moved to accommodate their
size but for now they seem to make a great community together. <You
have a lot of fish with formidable weapons in that tank, between the
tangs switchblades and triggers teeth, if it starts to go south it is
going to go south fast and bloody.> My water parameters are as
follows: Ammonia = 0 , pH = 8.2, Nitrates =10, Nitrites = 0, spg = 1.019
(I am slowly raising it from the 1.017 during the fallow phase).
<Ok, but I would not recommend ever running the main tank at anything
less than 1.025, too tough on the expensive live rock.> Up until 3
days ago my fish had been quarantined for 6 weeks due to a severe
outbreak of ich. While my fish were in QT I kept the display tank at or
slightly above 86 degrees and the spg at 1.017 to help eradicate the
parasite. <Not low enough to effect the parasite.> I was able to
avoid administering the copper treatment in my quarantine tank. After a
FW dip and being in QT for a few days all the signs of ich were gone and
stayed gone. The fish seemed to be doing okay riding out the wait.
<Be aware they are most likely still carrying the ich, hopefully it will
remain below symptomatic levels.> 3 days ago we placed them back into
the display tank and they seemed happy and were eating and exploring
immediately. My pH was a little low yesterday so I did add some Seachem
Marine Buffer per the instructions on the container. This has been done
in the past with no problems. Other than that, there have been no issues
with the tank. This morning I woke up and checked on my fish and at
first glance everyone seemed to be doing well (I keep my fingers crossed
every time after the ich debacle). I looked again and was amazed when I
saw Moses, my Royal Gramma, who just overnight is completely missing his
tail and a portion of his right pectoral fin. <Attacked> Where his
tail was taken it looks meaty and gnarled. As of late last night he
looked all intact. I am familiar with tail rot and also with the fraying
caused by other fish nipping and biting of which I have seen none in
this case. <My first guess would be the trigger, those teeth are
serious. Otherwise perhaps a hiding crab hungry for a meal.> This
looks nothing like either of those things. I don’t have any crabs or
shrimp in my tank that may otherwise seem logical culprits. <That you
know of, crabs hide amazingly well, might want to put out a trap and see
if you catch anything.> For right now, to my amazement, he is
swimming well and none of the other fish are acting aggressively toward
him. <If he begins to weaken they will turn on him.> He even ate
his breakfast. <Good sign.> He is so fast and small and has so
many crevices and caves that he likes to go into where none of the other
fish can even get to him so I can’t imagine that during the night he
would have allowed himself to remain exposed and still long enough for
one of his tank mates to literally chew on him until his tail was
completely gone. <Once in a bolt hole many fish refuse to leave, even
if being attacked, have heard plenty of stories of Firefish eaten alive
in their holes by crabs.> He perches in the rock to sleep. <Ok>
My two questions are as follows: What do you think could have caused
this to happen? <Some other inhabitant, known or unknown.> At
night I have seen some ‘unidentified’ creatures that were somewhat
significant in size come out of my live rock and I am wondering if
anything living in my rock could have possibly attached itself to Moses
while he was perched and sleeping and then ate away at his tail?
<Possible> That may sound a little bizarre but in my short time (less
than one year) in this hobby there has been nothing normal about it to
me so far and I don’t think anything would really surprise me at this
point! <The timid get pushed out in the reef, so don't underestimate
the tenacity of most reef creatures.> Secondly, what should I do for
my fish, if anything? He is EXTREMELY difficult to catch and, in fact,
when we last had to quarantine our fish I thought Moses wasn’t going to
make it because it took us days just to get him out of the display tank
the first time. <If he is still eating and no signs of infection I
would let him be, no sense adding to his trauma.> Anyway, any
input/advise you may be able to provide would be extremely appreciated.
Have a great day and thanks for your time ~Monica <Welcome>
<Chris>
White spot on Gramma 3/9/08 Hi guys, I recently had an
outbreak of ich in my system. My royal Gramma (who was the only one
visibly affected by ich), 2 false Percs, Firefish, and banner
cardinal were placed in QT for 8 weeks while my tank ran fallow. The
fish in QT were treated with Cupramine for three weeks. All was good
and were returned to the system. About a week ago I noted a large
raised white spot on the Gramma (not so clear pictures included).
There is only one spot, it is rather large like a white head, and
the Gramma is not showing any other behavioral symptoms (flashing,
etc.) and is eating well. No other spots are on the fish. The other
fish again appear unaffected. I am currently doing 20% water changes
twice weekly and am feeding only New Life spectrum TherA A+.
<Good product, food> Sorry about the poor quality pictures but it
is the best I could do. Tank parameters are 54 gallon with sump,
aqua C remora, 60 lbs LR, 40 lbs LS, Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0,
Nitrate-0, phos-0.03, dKH-8, Calcium-360, ph 8.0, specific gravity-
1.025. <This spot, raised area is very likely resultant from a
physical injury... not pathogenic. I would continue with NOT
medicating this animal... in time the spot will go. Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Mike | 
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Royal Gramma help... Crypt, and... 9/5/07 This is the best
picture I could get of my royal Gramma. He has that brownish grey area
in the middle of his body just on this one side. <I see this... and
that this specimen is too thin... and are those discrete "crypt-like"
spots on its lower body?> I have not noticed it being there before
although it may have been. I'm not quite sure if something is wrong with
him or not. I have had him almost two weeks. I did not have a quarantine
tank at the time, although I now have a quarantine tank going.
<Good... but a bit late here> I have looked all on your site about
health problems. I know ich has white spots and I've heard of the other
diseases but I'm not quite sure what they look like. <Time to go to
the library perhaps> I'm hoping this is nothing. I put in a cleaner
shrimp in my 75 gallon reef tank this past weekend, although I have not
seen him actually cleaning any of my fish. <Takes a while and won't
cure extant infestations...> The greyish area has a whitish filmy
area that sort of looks like it's flaking off a little at the bottom. My
water conditions have checked good so far. <Oh, that's good...>
Could you please give me some advice on what you think it could be and
what to do because I don't want my fish to die and I don't want to hurt
my other four fish in the tank. I also wanted to say that he has been
eating well and swimming ever since I got him. Thank you for any advice
you can give me and I have my quarantine tank ready for any more fish I
get. <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
particularly the royal blue line tray. Bob Fenner> | 
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Parasite, Alien, Unidentified object on Royal Gramma.....
6/18/07 Hey Bob, Michelle, and the rest of the crew! <Hi
Brandon, Mich with you tonight!> First of all let me say I hope life
is treating you both well since I last had a mixed drink with you both
at SWU in Atlanta <Thanks and you as well!> and I hope to see ya
both at MACNA 19 here fast approaching. <You will likely see me!>
I have a problem I think it is time to call in an extra set of eyes for.
<My eyes are here, but I'm not seeing any photos!> We have a member
of or reef club that came to me looking for some help on his tank. It is
a 210 gal that has basically become a Bryopsis forest with a healthy
dose of flatworms at the current moment. <Ho buoy!!!> It does
have a few fish (Foxface, Royal, and False Perc Clown) and basic soft
corals (leather, Kenya tree, few shrooms and some yellow polyps) at the
current moment. Upon arriving at his house last night I noticed
something odd on his Royal that I can not ID and could not I get a
picture of. <Photographing fish can be a challenge!> On each side
of his upper lip appeared to be a cluster of whiskers. They were only
about 1cm long, clear but shinny like fishing line, and about 3-4 per
cluster. The appeared to move independently of each other but I assume
each cluster was part of the same foreign body. Of course the Royal was
scratching so whatever it is is not making life fun for the fish. The
fish was a bit skittish (In a Royal, I must be kidding!!!), <Heee!
Ya think they tend to be a little bold, eh?> so I could not get a
good look at what the "whiskers" were attached into. So this is where I
turn to ya'll. I need to figure out what these things are and how to
treat. I am hoping a simple FW dip <Does sound like some type of
parasitic worm. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisfaq2.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisfaqs.htm A look through Ed Noga's
"Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment" may help. A FW dip would be a good
start, you may need to administer an anthelminthic such as Praziquantel.
More here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/vermifugefaqs.htm > and QT period might
cure the problem but I got to say, I am not crazy about dipping a
Foxface Lo by any means! <I can't say I blame you there!> Any
help you can give on the matter at hand will net you a rum and coke in
Pittsburg Bob... ;) <Heee! How 'bout a frothy girly drink for
Michelle?> Thanks, <Welcome! Mich> Brandon
Re: Parasite, Alien, Unidentified object on Royal Gramma..... – 6/19/07
Hey Mich, <Bob here... prompted as it were, from the depths of fish
tanks...> Thanks for the response. Ya I have been through all those
links and can not find anything that sounds like what is affecting this
fish. I think I am going to try the route of FW dip with some Meth blue
but I wish I had some sort of idea as to what it could be so that I
could know its life cycle and impact on the system. <Need a scope...>
As for Noga's book, believe me, it is a book that I NEED to invest into
but an investment it sure is!!! Not light reading and at $120 it is a
hefty price tag. <Mmm, if it were/is expedient, there may be a copy
to borrow at a large college library nearby...> I know Bob has talked
to him about lowering the price and if he cuts it in half he would sell
a copy to me in a heartbeat!!! <Agreed... or even put on the Net to
download at five dollars, ten? A copy to look/see... Sheesh, why am I
NOT a bazillionaire? Oh, right, I have little interest in more money>
All I need to do is talk the library into ordering it! ;) Anyways, I
was hoping Bob would have an idea as well but I guess he is off
"working" somewhere. Thanks for the input and I will let you know
if/when I can figure out what this thing is! Brandon <I've just
re-read the prev. corr. and do concur w/ Mich re this likely being some
sort of "worm"... and the prospective use of an Anthelminthic... Is this
your intention? BobF>
Sad Gramma... hlth., – 03/15/07 Hey all, You guys
have been very helpful in the past, and I hope that streak can
continue. I've had my 60 gallon (regular) reef tank for a year now
and the inhabitants are: citron goby ocellaris clown
yellow-streak fairy wrasse neon goby 2 one-inch Chromis
royal Gramma corals: frogspawn, candy cane (aka trumpet),
pom-pom xenia, a few zoas. My parameters have always been good
and stable (nitrate <5ppm, pH 8.2, temp 79F). The Gramma had always
been healthy and happy, though he did hide sometimes. Five months
ago, he started hiding all the time and would often not even come
out to eat. At that point I noticed the white discoloration shown in
the picture. <I see this> I traded in my damsel to try to
help reduce the possible stress to him, and started target feeding
him in his rock crevice (with a baster) frozen Mysis and flakes
soaked in Kent Zoe Marine. It didn't seem to help. Finally I decided
to catch him and put him in quarantine so I could treat him and take
a picture of him. To me, his disease/injury looks like someone took
a piece of chalk sideways and drew on both sides of him. >
reading other posts and talking to fish stores, it seems like a skin
irritation or injury, <Agreed> so I am treating him with
something called Rally by Ruby Reef, <Garbage> which says it
is for external bacterial infection and external parasites. It's
only been two days but the Gramma is still hiding and not eating. Do
you think I'm on the right track here? Is it possible that he's just
getting old? <Mmm, yes... but far more likely this fish is
mal-affected by some metabolite/s from your Cnidarians... most
likely the Zoanthids> I got him from someone that had him for at
least 2 years, so he's at least 3. I don't know what else to do
besides keeping water quality high and trying to feed him the
enriched Mysis. I don't want to overdo the treatment and stress him
to death, but he's obviously not happy and I feel I have to try
something. Many thanks for your help and insight, Scott
p.s. I'm happy with my current piscine inhabitants, but would also
like to add another fish down the road, either a flame angel or
anthias bass (lyretail or Hawaiian bicolor) or both. Good fit?
<Mmm, no... this system is too small> Do flame angels tend to
nip on mainly SPS polyps or on all corals (like mine)? <Read on
my friend... Re Cnidarian and Zoanthid allelopathy, Centropyge
loricula... all posted on WWM. Bob Fenner> | 
|
Royal Gramma With Parasite 1/26/07 Hi, <Hello Phil> I
have a problem regarding a royal Gramma, I cannot seem to find it in
your FAQs. I've had the royal Gramma for 1 week now, The other night
I saw it bashing its head hard against the live rocks, so I thought I'd
have a look with the magnifying glass, on its right eye there's a tiny
white worm looking thing moving round the bottom of its eye, I just
wondered if its anything to be concerned about .The fish itself seems
fine and eating ok. <Have you search the FAQ section on
disease/parasite control? I'd put the Gramma in QT and treat with a
parasitic type medication. Copper should do the trick.> <<Mmmm. RMF>>
Any help at all would be great. thanks, Phil. <You're
welcome. In future queries, please do a grammar check. We just don't
have the time to correct/edit queries before placing in the
dailies. Thanks, James (Salty Dog)> Swim Bladder problem
with Royal Gramma 11/27/06 Hey Crew, <Hey
AJ, JustinN with you today> Two days ago, I noticed telltale signs
of ich in my tank, white spots and cloudy eyes on my Royal Gramma, and
both it and my purple firefish were rubbing on the rocks and substrate.
I set up a quarantine tank using water from the display, matching temp,
etc., based on this site's recommendations, treated the water with
copper following the solution's directions, and proceeded to move the
two fish into the quarantine tank. <All sounds good here> The
firefish is doing well and after a brief hunger strike is taking frozen
brine again. <Do try mysis shrimp as well, if you don't already.
Brine shrimp are like potato chips for fish, whereas mysis contains
essential nutrients.> However, the Gramma is floating on his side
near the top of the tank and seems to be very lethargic. <Mmm, not
good> Every once in a while he will swim all over the place, then
stop and float to the surface again. Is this indicative of a swim
bladder problem, possibly caused by the transfer to the new tank? Or is
it more likely just a sign of stress? If it's the former, is there
anything I can do for it? He did not have this problem before the move,
but as soon as he was in the QT tank it began. Thanks, AJ
<AJ, this sounds like a water quality issue in the QT tank. Do you have
chemically inert hiding places provided for both fish? Are you
performing water changes and testing for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates? Do
remember, you are treating with copper which will kill any beneficial
bacteria in the tank, thus making water changes crucial. Hope this helps
you! -JustinN> Injured royal Gramma 11/15/06
Greetings, all -- <Hello there!> My 37g tall FOWLR suffered a
broken middle support so I got an identical take to move all my water,
tomato clown, royal Gramma, and live rock. Everything went perfectly
well except for one incident: the royal Gramma was in a rock that we
pulled out. A few seconds later we heard her flopping around, and it
took us about 15 seconds to identify which rock she was inside and
submerge it in aquarium water. Today (about 14 hours later) the
clown is swimming about, eating and appears to be perfectly fine, but
the Gramma does is not her usual self. She is usually hiding, does not
swim around much, I can see some lighter patches on her, perhaps
injuries from the rock? My question is basically, what should I do? If
it's a physical injury, will it heal, and in how long? Is there
anything I can do to help her out? What should I be looking out for?
<I'm sure the Gramma is traumatized, if not physically injured. The
lighter patches you refer to could well be cuts from the rock, or could
just be stress lines. I would usually suggest quarantining the affected
fish, but I'm afraid trying to catch her would cause even more stress
(we have a Brazilian Gramma, and I know how crafty they can be in
avoiding the net!) I would suggest now keeping a very close eye on the
Gramma in her usual tank, making sure she is eating (perhaps even soak
the food in vitamin supplements or garlic oil) and keeping the tank
water *extremely* clean. I suspect the injuries will heal under good
husbandry, but keep a close watch to ensure no secondary bacterial
infections set in.> Thanks! - Chad <You're welcome. I'm
sure your Gramma will recover given proper conditions...give her some
time, she's been through a big ordeal!! Good luck, Jorie>
Sick royal Gramma 3/28/06 Hey guys, How are you? I
recently added my royal Gramma to my tank after quarantine and it is
doing fine but I am noticing its tail is becoming cloudy. I want to nip
this in the butt early but I have a 30 gallon filled with LR and
established corals. Whenever I go to get him out he darts way back in
the tank. <Oh yes> Iv heard of melafix and am not ready to use
that because Iv read that no one really knows if its really reef safe.
<Isn't worth using> My question what can I do to fix this. He eats
great and is very healthy except for the tail. Tank parameters are
(ammonia-0 ph-8.3 -nitrate-0- nitrite-o -calcium 400 ppm (lighting is
150 HQI with 2 65 watt PC actinics.) <... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/grammadisfaqs.htm and the linked files
above. Bob Fenner>
I have a question about my royal Gramma (sick) 3/19/06 Hi-
I always come to your site for all my answers.. but this one
doesn't seem to be on there (that I know of) Hope you can crack open
the case. I bought a royal Gramma about a week ago.. to add to my
55 gal. he's been doing fine the whole time.. and yesterday evening
I noticed something funny about him, it wasn't there during the day
but at night, his face seems to have some sort of discoloration, on
his right side only. there seems to be a 'white film' over it...
around his gills and face, but not close to his eyes or mouth. I
tried to get some pictures of it, the best 2 are enclosed (it looks
darker but its very white, so try to imagine) I don't know what it
is.. and I'm worried about him.. also if he's diseased I don't want
to get my other fish sick.. any advice? thanks, Taryn
<Just good care... perhaps this fish got "whacked" or roughly
treated during collection, netting. Bob Fenner> | 
|
Is My Royal Gramma Dying? - 03/13/2006 My first fish, a
Royal Gramma (I have had him 4 days) has stopped eating and coming out
of the rocks. <Do this sometimes...> Friday he was eating and
looked okay when he WOULD come out, but he hides in the rocks so
much I hardly ever see him. Saturday he never came out except for
once to go from one rock hole to the other and never ate anything
that I saw. I have been feeding him Mysis Shrimp soaked in garlic.
<Maybe fears bad breath...> Friday morning the tank temperature had
gone up to 82.5 when I got up so I unplugged one of the heaters and
by Saturday the temp had gone back down to 78.4. This morning it is
79.4 so I don't think the temp change would have been that bad. My
water tests fine, PH8.2, Ammonia-0, Nitrate-0, Nitrate-0. The SG 1.024.
I did have a diatom problem start on Thursday but it really doesn't look
that bad and the water is still fine. I am worried that the fish is
sick, he doesn't look sick from outward appearance as much as I can
tell as he doesn't come out long enough to check now. When he goes
into the rock holes though he just lays on the rock. Should I just
wait and see if he dies and how long can he not eat before he will
die just of starvation if nothing else? Is he lonely in there all by
himself? <I would wait this out... likely the changes you mention
are at play here... can go w/o apparent feeding for a few weeks. Bob
Fenner> Suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I really hate to
lose my first fish for no apparent reason and have no idea why I
would with the water tests I have. Oh, btw, no he wasn't quarantined
by me but had been in the LFS for a week and a half and was eating
well even at home for the first couple of days. Thanks
Bizarre Growth, Epsom Salt, and More - 11/29/2005 Bob,
<Actually, Sabrina with you, in his stead.> You've helped me before
regarding Popeye and Epsom salt. I'm wondering if you can suggest
something again. <We'll sure try, Paul!> My Royal Gramma has
developed a clear, bulbous tumor inside its mouth over the last two
months and while it is still active and eating, the tumor has doubled in
size (bigger than a pea and the fish is only 3" long). It now swims with
its mouth open at all times and although seems to not be bothered by it,
I know if it gets much bigger it won't be able to eat and may even
invade its gills. <Clear.... you mean, you can see through this?
Like a blister? Or is it in/under the skin?> Will Epsom salt shrink
this thing or would something else work? <I would try Epsom salt,
yes - but I also am concerned that it may possibly be a "goiter", from
an iodine deficiency, which can be treated by supplementing
iodine/iodide (I believe Bob usually recommends Lugol's solution) for
several weeks, a few months....> Could I possibly suck the tumor away
with a syringe? <I don't think I would risk this.> I think that
would probably scare the fish to death even if I could hold still long
enough to pull that off. <You would need to sedate the animal to do
such a thing.... really, I advise against it, unless it becomes a
life-or-death situation.> Its color is excellent and as I said, is
healthy. <Good signs, to be sure.> I want to try and treat it
before it gets to where its energy would make it detrimental to move to
a quarantine tank. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! <I
would research the iodine issue, were I in your shoes, and try adding
Epsom.> Paul <Wishing you well, -Sabrina> Dancing and
Glancing Gramma 11/13/05 Hi WWB crew, <<WWB? Who are
they?>><WetWebBrew? Yay!> <<Hello - Ted here this evening>>
First off thanks for the great site and info. <<Thanks. Glad you find
it helpful>> My royal Gramma regularly, at least once an hour, makes
a quick and what seems to be planned rub up against a few select spots
on my live rock. He has done this for well over a year and I have never
seen any white spots indicating an Ich infection. He is very fat and
healthy in every other regard. Any thoughts on why he would be doing
this? Could it be a different type of parasite, an itchy spot, a fun
hobby for him? <<It could be some other parasite. It could also be
hunting behavior and he may be trying to dislodge crustaceans from the
rock. If he is eating and otherwise behaving normally, I wouldn't be
concerned.>> My other 4 fishes (3 green Chromis and Lawn mower
blenny) all seem to be in great health. I would like to add a purple
tang to my tank but I am concerned that ich or a different problem may
be present in my main tank based the royal Gramma's behavior. <<Not
knowing the size of your tank, it is hard to comment on the advisability
of adding a Purple Tang. Bear in mind that Purple Tangs require lots of
swimming room and can grow to 10 inches.>> I have considered moving
all the fish over to a QT and leaving the display tank empty for 45 days
to break the ich cycle, if it exists, but I am hesitant to do so based
solely off the weird behavior of the RG. Catching the royal Gramma would
probably require me to tear apart the LR structure, disrupting the
entire tank. I have not QT'd in the past (yes I am ashamed)
<<Yes, but are you suitably ashamed?>> so it is possible that ich
could have been imported in to my tank. I am planning on using a QT (per
method defined here on WWM) for the new tang, if and when I get it.
<<Do the other inhabitants seem healthy? If so, then quarantine any new
additions to prevent the introduction of disease to your healthy system.
If some fish seem sick, then take the sick fish from the system and
treat them in a separate tank and do not add any new fish until all the
other inhabitants are healthy.>> Any thoughts on this matter would be
appreciated. Thank you for your time and have a great day. Shad
Shriver <<You're welcome and good luck. - Ted>> Royal
Gramma's Lip Ripped 10/12/05 Hi, <Hey, Mike G with you
tonight.> This morning when I went to feed my fish I noticed my royal
Gramma's lip is torn off half way (still attached but floating off) the
grammas top teeth are exposed. <Ouch.> It wasn't like this last
night. I have had this fish for about 9 years now (I am very attached to
him). <Wow!> About two years ago, I added a yellow citron goby
<Peaceful harmless (unless you're an Acro). Not suspect.> pair of
false clowns <Doubtful they are behind this.> a six line wrasse
<Maybe, probably not.> and a brittle starfish (brown with black bands
around the legs). <If this guy went for the Gramma, more than his lip
would be missing!> I also have a pair of cleaner shrimps <No cause
for alarm.> a small emerald crab <Have heard of big emeralds
attacking fish in hope of a meal. Not common.> and random hermit
crabs <Most are harmless, some are not. "Random Hermits" are hit or
miss.> There is also a stowaway pistol shrimp somewhere in the rocks
(only seen it once did not purchase been there for about 2 years
also). <Have had a tang lose an eye to a pugnacious Alpheus once
before. Still, most a re totally harmless.> Everybody has always got
along alright. <Until now.> I would first like to know if my
Gramma is going to be able to live without its lip or will he grow a new
one? <If infection is avoided (MelaFix is good for this), the fish
should be able to cope fine. Keep the water quality up, watch for the
perpetrator.> Second do you have any idea what could of happened and
what I should look out for. <Honestly, the mix you have does not
really lend to any lip-rippers. I'm prepared to dismiss it as freak
chance or a hitch hiker you never knew about. Do keep an eye out,
though.> Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated,
<Welcome. Best of luck! Mike G> - Royal Gramma Spots -
Hello, Thank you so much for answering so many questions for all of
us novices out there. My husband and I have a 26 gallon reef tank that
has been in operation for three months. All of our water parameters
seem to be fine. Our Royal Gramma has recently started showing small
white spots on its head and tail. The spots are not raised and do not
look like ich that I have seen on other fish. It does not have these
spots in the morning when the lights come on, however, during the course
of the day the spots slowly start to appear. By the end of the day the
fish shows signs that the spots bother it by repeatedly scratching on
the rocks. The fish is not showing any other signs of stress and has
been eating fine. We have a cleaner shrimp that the fish goes to at
least twice a day. Its only other tank mates are a Sailfin Blenny,
turbo snails, 2 scarlet crabs, 2 blue hermits, 4 margarita snails, 2
Astrea snails, 2 zebra snails, and 5 Nassarius snails. We also have
assorted zoo's and a frogspawn coral. Are these spots
some other sort of parasite that attaches when the lights are on. <In my
opinion it is most likely ich.> Should we try a freshwater dip to
alleviate the problem. <I think that would be a good course of action at
this point. Don't spend too long trying to catch the fish, though - if
you can't catch it in five minutes or so, try again tomorrow.> The
blenny does not seem to have the spots, however, it is harder to see
because of his coloration. I would appreciate any input you could give
me. <See how things go after the dip, see if the cleaner shrimp can keep
things in check. Prepare a quarantine tank just in case.> Thank you for
your time. Beth <Cheers, J -- > - Royal Gramma Woes
- Good Evening and I hope that you might have some ideas after
hearing my sordid tale of woe. I have an 80 gal marine tank with the
following parameters: Spg 1.25, NH4=0, NO2=0,
N03=0, pH=8.0, CA=410, temp=80, PO4=.1,
about 80lbs live rock which is well coralline encrusted, deep sand bed,
Remora pro skimmer w/Mag 3 and a wet and dry. Running carbon and
PolyFilter. In addition to the pumps running the skimmer and wet and dry
I have a Seio 640(I think) in the tank for additional flow. Current
inhabitants, pyramidellid snail, two emerald crabs, one cleaner shrimp,
one ocellaris clown doing very well and one relatively happy fox face,
Halimeda growing in tank along with some red algae. I did have a nice
royal Gramma. Tank is up about two years and lighting is NO. Recently
lost the Gramma, I think to intimidation by the fox face, not that the
fox face had ever shown any interest in the Gramma. Nevertheless
from the time the fox face arrived the Gramma starting spending more
time in his lair and avoided feeding when the fox face was around, that
his he would stay in the lower part of the water column and pick up the
scraps. Tried a variety of techniques in timing of feeding to try to get
the fox face out of the picture but none were successful. Although the
Gramma was eating something it simply was not enough. Eventually color,
especially the purple on the top of the head started to fade and he
would come out of his burrow in the rock less and less often. He passed
about two weeks ago. <Sorry to hear of your loss.> Very sad,
helpless feeling. Last Sunday went to local LFS and talked with them re
this. They thought it strange and felt that perhaps there was a
personality issue. <Yes, would agree... the Gramma just did not
adjust well to having a larger fish in the tank.> I decided to try
again and bought another Gramma. Fish looked in excellent condition,
active, eating, alert etc. Had been in LFS for three weeks and I was
previously told that they run copper in their system. Took fish home
spent an hour and a half acclimating (Yes I know I should have
quarantined), turned off lights, dumped out bag water, placed fish in
tank. Three days later found him on the bottom dead as a door nail.
Anyone want to venture some thoughts? <Coincidence... did you see
the fish eat at the store? Sometimes two weeks at the store is ok, and
the third week is the beginning of the end. Also, many fish don't
exhibit external signs that they are in fact on the way out. I think you
just got a bad one.> that is aside from the quarantine issue. Oh
yeah one other thing, I do weekly 10% water changes. Thanks for your
input. <I'd encourage you to try again - make sure you see the fish
eat before you take it home. I know you skirted the quarantine issue,
but let me assure you, this is not just for disease prevention but also
for the fish to catch a rest away from kids tapping on the glass and
people pointing fingers at them. Going directly into a tank with larger,
competitive fish can add stress upon stress, and this can cause a turn
for the worse. In a quarantine tank, the fish have time to learn your
feeding routine and you have the chance to get them acclimated to the
foods you want to feed vs. the foods they are used to eating. Cheers, J
-- > Royal Gramma health Hello, First off, you guys
rock! <live rock, that is!> Now to unashamedly take advantage of
your brains. <quick... before the recreational drugs take their
toll!> I recently purchased a Royal Gramma from my LFS (The Fish
Store & More in Atlanta, GA.). I introduced the fish into my tank as the
first and only occupant except for a small cleanup crew of snails and
hermits which has been doing fine (it is a ten gallon FOWLR and this
will be the only fish I keep). The tank had cycled for 1 month with live
rock and all water tests were nominal before adding the Gramma.
Immediately after introducing the fish into the tank, I noticed that its
face had a slight white/glaze looking color covering just part of the
face near one eye. I assumed that the fish came with this color
variation from the store so I immediately called the fish store and
asked if I should bring it back but they said to watch it and make sure
it doesn't change and that some of the fish naturally have color
variations. <eh... not really white, but onward...> I know that
this particular fish store keeps their livestock salinity at something
near half of the .025 value, so probably .0125 and that they also copper
their water. <fine for some fishes...quite stressful for many
others. I favor lower salinity for fish only systems, but no lower than
1.017 without a very good reason. I would strongly discourage you from
buying wrasses or dwarf angels from this system for example as they will
be very stressed> The fish had been at the store for over two weeks
when I purchased it. <very good> This kind of makes me doubt that
it was sick coming from the store but I am unsure of the color on its
nose. <don't be so sure... a full month is a proper QT and disease
can wait to be expressed after two weeks easily. These newly imported
fishes are quite stressed> Over the next 3 days in my tank, the fish
ate well (twice a day) and moved about normally even when I was near the
tank. Yesterday there seemed to be a change in habit. I wasn't able to
feed it in the morning since I had to go to work early, but when I got
home and fed the fish (mix of many types of small meats including Mysid
shrimp, all soaked in Zoe) it didn't come out to eat. I kept the room
lights off and watched the fish but it did not come out at all
throughout the evening. From what I can tell at this point, the fish
hasn't come out for two days now (but I am gone to work for a good 8
hours) and sits under a rock moving only half an inch or so at most to
reposition. This seems very abnormal compared to the habits of the fish
for the first 3 days. <agreed> I haven't been able to really tell
if the white/gloss on its nose has changed because it stays under the
rock. From what I can see the color hasn't seemed to spread over the
body. I began to wonder if my aragonite substrate was simply rubbing
off on the fish's nose as it dug out a home under the live rock.
<unlikely> I perform weekly 10% water changes and also have a Prizm
skimmer that produces a small amount of dark gunk daily (not a cup but
then it is only a 10 gallon). I also have a HOB filter for water
circulation and a Microjet mc450 that is moving 117 gph. My real
question is, should I be concerned at this point? <tough to say
without a better look at the fish but it is still yet another piece of
evidence in support of quarantining all new fish in a bare-bottomed QT
tank in case meds are needed. 2 weeks in the pet shop were helpful, but
who's to say that your fish wasn't caught with a net that just came out
of a tank of new or sick fishes? Was the fish alone for 2 weeks too or
had new shipments been added to the tank... or worse... was the fish in
a central filtration system? That fish had almost no practical QT stay.
It is a strict rule that all livestock should be quarantined unless a
life threatening emergency negates the need (rare)> Also, at what
point is it considered 'not the fish store's problem' with most quality
fish shops? <never assume that a LFS livestock is clean. If they
QT'ed all fish like we should, then likely you and most people would not
want to pay for the expense of them setting up and keeping 5 full weeks
of inventory in rotation and separately quarantined. Assume it is your
responsibility from go but do play the deposit game with them and hold
the fish as long as you can at their shop> I don't know if it is
appropriate to bring the fish back since it seemed to come with the odd
color on its nose. <good heavens my friend... please don't move it
yet or be so willing or whimsical to move any fish or coral so quickly.
It may kill such an animal that otherwise just needs some time to settle
in. Moving animals is VERY stressful. That's another reason why QT of
your own is so important. Put the fish in a good place (QT) the first
time and leave it alone (4 weeks). Once acclimated to your husbandry it
can be moved to the main display without fear of infecting the whole
collection (albeit small/new in this case). > Thank you for your time
and information. Andy Weaver <you are quite welcome my friend... do
read up in our WetWebMedia archives on diseases and QT protocol for
preparedness. Do call again if an unclear symptom manifests. Best
regards, Anthony> Sick Royal Gramma Hi guys, <Sorry
for the delay Steve> I would like to ask your advice about something
please. Here's the situation: About 6 weeks ago I bought a Royal
Gramma which I dipped in FW (buffered, aerated and temp. adjusted)
for 7 min.s before putting in a 10 gal. QT. After 2 days, the RG
showed signs of velvet so I immediately began a copper
treatment. The treatment lasted 19 days at a concentration of
0.25-0.30. The RG responded very well and quickly to the
treatment. I left him 13 days in QT after the end of the treatment
and it showed no signs of the parasite, so I put him in my MT last
Thursday. <Potential problem here. The 4-6 wk QT time starts over
AFTER all signs are gone> On Friday, I got a Flame Angel which I also
dipped in FW for 8.5 min.s before putting in a 10 gal. QT. The Angel
is doing well (also eating well) for now and has been in QT for 5
full days. The problem is the RG in the MT is now showing 4-5 ick
spots, I can't understand how this happened? What do you think I
should do? Should I: a) Leave the Angel in the QT and give FW dips
to the RG putting him back in the MT after each dip and maybe add a
cleaner shrimp to help him out? <This would be an option if it does
not stress the fish too much to catch it> b) Remove the Angel from
the QT (even if it's only 5 days), FW dip him for 10 min.s and put
him in the MT, allowing me to remove the RG from the MT to administer
a second copper treatment in QT? Maybe I should add a cleaner shrimp
in this scenario as well to help prevent an outbreak since the
parasite is now in the MT? <I would not advise this. The flame needs
QT> c) Any other suggestions? <I would put the Gramma back into QT
and keep the water as pristine as you can> Other inhabitants in MT
are a small false percula and a small 4-stripe damsel. I feed my
fish Formula 1 and 2 and Tetra Marine Flakes, varying their diet to
try to boost their immune system. Of the cleaner shrimps, is there
one which is more efficient between the white stripe cleaner and the
blood/fire shrimp? <I like the white stripe cleaner> Also, it is
not clear on your website how much and how often I should be adding
iodide to help the shrimp molt? Due to the situation, do you think I
could do without a QT for the shrimp (maybe just a rinse in a bucket
of system water?)? <No need to QT shrimp. I don't add anything (other
than regular weekly water changes) and my shrimp molt every 3 weeks
or so> You have to understand that I had a complete tank wipeout due
to ick or velvet 4 months ago so I left the tank fallow for 4 weeks
and having learned my lesson now follow the QT and dip procedures
recommended on your website. I am extremely discouraged and do not
want to go through another wipeout and start everything over a third
time. Help! <Steve, can you get a thermometer that records hi and
low over a period of time? Extreme temperature swings (more than 2-3
degrees F) can cause a stress to allow the ick to get hold. Check it
out. Don> Thank you for your response. Frustrated Steve.
Gramma In Distress? I have a 180 gal. reef with about 8 fish,
only the Royal Gramma is showing signs of disease. About three weeks
ago the Gramma lost it's tail. I initially thought something was picking
on it but I never noticed any aggression between the fish. They have
all been in this tank for over 1 year. Now the Gramma's tail is
growing back and there is a white film covering the front 1/3 and the
fish is itching on rocks. I can't remove this fish, I've tried to trap
it but it's too shy. What is this and how can I treat it??
Frustrated In GR Tom <Well, Tom- it sounds like some sort of
bacterial or fungal problem from the appearance and circumstances
involved, but the scratching seems indicative of a parasitic ailment. If
it is, indeed Amyloodinium, then you may notice other signs, such as
rapid breathing, dashing around the tank, and difficulty swimming. At
this point, if trapping the fish is impractical or impossible, you may
have to run the risk of letting nature take its course, and hope that
maintaining great water conditions and a steady environment will do the
job. There is also the huge potential of a total infestation of your
aquarium, if the malady does turn out to be Amyloodinium. My best
advice- also the most aggravating: Break down the decor and get the fish
out for observation and/or treatment in a separate aquarium. This
basically sucks, I know- but it seems infinitely preferable to a
potential wipe out in your tank. You could observe the for another
several days, to see if any other problems manifest, but action is
definitely required if this is one of parasitic diseases that we
discussed. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Royal Grammas Keep
Dying I have a dogface puffer, percula clown, and watchman goby
that get along fine. I then added a small royal Gramma that died within
2 days. Water was fine, fish seemed fine at the end of the first day and
the second day seemed fine until I saw it deceased. The next week after
a water change and check after a couple of days I went to LFS and bought
a larger one thinking maybe the small one was too weak (young). Same
thing happened only 3 days later. I have several small blue legs living
and took my water to LFS for testing several times to be sure my tests
kit are accurate. I acclimate them just as suggested and I saw no signs
of attack. What do you think? <If all tests are fine and all of the
other fish are doing fine, I suspect you are just having bad luck with
this fish. Maybe try a different store?> Am I just a murderer?
<Ouch! I hope not! Do you quarantine your fish? That would give a little
Gramma time to get comfortable with captivity before it gets thrown in
with the other established fish> I would like to stock my tank 65
gal-60lbs LR, LS, wet/dry, protein skimmer, and power compact. Please
help me I don't want to kill anymore. Jill <Just sounds like you've
had bad luck. Keep the faith...David Dowless> Sudden Fish Death
Hi <<Hello, JasonC here...>> Three days ago I bought a royal
Gramma and today he hid all day in "his" coral. A short while ago, he
emerged from the coral and began thrashing about wildly, eventually
chasing his tail all over the tank, splashing around at the surface for
a minute, and then he sank, mouth wide open gills motionless, fins
frozen wide open. When I netted him, he was already stiff. There
were/are no visible signs of a problem until this sudden death today. Do
you have any idea as to what may have happened to him? <<Hmm... that is
a bit of a mystery. Were you home all day to observe this day of hiding?
My first suspect would be some type of environmental contagion - do you
smoke cigarettes? Did anyone clean the glass in/near/around the tank?
Did you feed this fish before this happened? There are many
possibilities of this nature. It's also possible, although less likely
that this poor creature had a genetic problem, or was cyanide caught,
but these fish are typically pretty durable. I'd look first for
household causes as these are the most likely culprit in "sudden" deaths
like this - you will need to be the detective on the scene. Sorry to
hear of your loss.>> Thanks, Patrick <<Cheers, J -- >>
Sick Basslet Dear Mr. Fenner, <Steven Pro today.> I have a
thirty-five gallon tank and up till now have had very healthy fish. I am
very upset however because three or four days ago I noticed a white spot
on the lower jaw of my fairy Basslet. I called the dealer I buy my fish
from and told him about it. He said he didn't think it sounded like ick
and for me to just watch it. Well last night, I noticed that the Basslet
had little white spots all over his body and he is rubbing himself
against the sand. I've never had to treat ick before and I don't know
the best medicine to buy. <Quarantine and treat with copper.> Also
should I treat him in a hospital tank? <Absolutely!> I know that
the medicine would be toxic to my invertebrates, but what about my other
fish (two clowns and a Sailfin tang)? Will they end up with ick too?
<Possible> Should I sacrifice the invertebrates and treat my whole
tank <No, never.> or just isolate my Basslet? <First isolate
and treat the Basslet, cross your fingers, but be prepared to quarantine
everyone. Do see our extensive writings on www.WetWebMedia.com regarding
parasitic infections.> Thank you. Very concerted, Laura <Good
luck! -Steven Pro> Re: sick Basslet Thanks for the quick
reply. <You are welcome.> I'll quarantine the Basslet ASAP!
<Good!> Ummm, if the others end up with ick too, can I put all four
of them in a five gallon tank for treatment for an extended amount of
time? Laura <No, that is too small. You will need at least 20 gallons
for your fish. -Steven Pro> Mystery Malady Help WWM
strange-disease guru: <Ho about "WWM Strange Guru"? Scott F. here
today!> I have a Royal Gramma that looks exactly like it was tagged
by a porcupine. There are dozens of very fine, clear-ish with a
bit-of-white needles about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch long poking out of its
left eye, left eye socket, and mouth. The fish seems unchanged behavior
wise (normal and healthy.) <Weird...Sounds almost like some kind of
external fungal infection> I cannot find anything on your site about
what this might be. I did recently introduce a purple Gorgonian that
this Gramma likes to swim around and through; perhaps the Gorgonian has
something to do with this? Any help is most appreciated, SLC <Well,
before you rush in and administer medications, I'd observe this fish for
a while longer. It may be that you'll see this material clear out on its
own. On the other hand, if it begins to interfere with the fish's
ability to eat, etc., then you may need to take some action. I'd operate
on the assumption (and it IS an assumption) that you are dealing with
some sort of fungal disease, and treat with appropriate medication in a
separate aquarium...Keep an eye on this fish to make sure that things
don't progress. Good luck! Regards, ScottF> Stranger Than
Fiction...(Follow-up To Mystery Malady) Scott F: Thanks for the
reply. I took your advice and did nothing, just carefully observing my
R.G.'s state. The mysterious needles went away completely within a day
or so. Strange.... SLC <Sometimes, doing nothing is better than
doing something...Nothing ever surprises me in this hobby any more! Take
care! Scott F.> Royal Gramma with Tan Mark on Mouth
>Sorry to bother you but I could not get through on the message board
for a follow-up to my original post. >>Lately, not an uncommon
problem. Marina to help, and no worries, eh? >I have a Royal Gramma
4 days into its acclimation quarantine. >>Ah, you're warming my
heart with those words. >It has remained in the corners or behind the
heater the entire time except when feeding. >>Have you provided
cover in the form of PVC pieces and elbows? This will go a long way
towards reducing its overall stress levels, and they are EASILY
sterilized for next time. >It did have one nip out of its tail when I
picked him up but that seems to be doing fine. The problem is I
noticed some tan mark or small growth right on its mouth tonight. When
I went to check later it was twitching in the bottom corner of the
tank. >>Puzzling.. >What might be wrong and what should I being
doing to help it? >>It's difficult for me to say without seeing the
animal. Do try the boards again, but I would definitely recommend
reducing the salinity level to around 1.010, just to rule out
parasites. If this is something else (bacterial/viral infection), then
hypo won't affect it much. At this point, ensure water quality is best,
provide the cover for the fish, and observe. Have some Spectrogram on
hand in case you decide there's a bacterial infection present, if it's
viral we hooman beans have nothing to treat ourselves, let alone
fish. Best of luck, Marina Royal Gramma with tan mark on
mouth, II >Marina, Thanks for getting back to me. >>Very
welcome. >I will go the hyposalinity route starting tonight. I have
had PVC in the tank since it was set up but until today he has not used
it. Twitching seems to no longer be an issue. I admit I turned on the
light that night to "get another look" just before the twitching
occurred. Tan spot also seems smaller but I reduce the salinity in
any case. Other than spot, Gramma eats well and seems to be in good
health. John >>Your most important indicators. Good luck, I'm sure
the animal will be fine. Marina Royal Gramma In A
Royal Mess Hi crew, <Scott F. here today> You have been
helpful in the past so I will try again. I have a 10 gallon (too small
as you told me before) with a Royal Gramma, a Sixline Wrasse, a Clown
Goby and a Rainfordi besides snails and hermits. Water quality good
except nitrates about 20. I went on vacation and on the first day my
daughter told me that the Gramma was not swimming around as usual but
was hiding in his night spot. Eventually she saw a bulging eye and he
was not eating. When I got back two weeks later he is alive but not more
than that. He was on the bottom this morning barely breathing. There was
no eye as far as I can tell. I can not get a view to see his other
side and he is back in his night spot. Now that I checked about eye
problems I see that Epsom salt may have helped. At this point can
anything be done to save him. He does not seem to be eating. <I'm
sorry to hear about the sad state of this fish. If you're getting good
results with Epsom salts, then there is a good possibility that the fish
suffered some sort of injury. As far as the lack of appetite and low
respiration are concerned, this could be caused by many different
things, ranging from a parasitic illness to environmental conditions. If
possible, I'd remove this fish to a separate tank for further
observation and possible treatment, if needed. Once of the best things
that you can do is to provide a quiet tank and clean water. Keep trying
to get him to eat. Perhaps you could administer some aquarium vitamin
preparation directly to the water in this tank to help provide some
nutrition and stimulate eating. Let us know if other symptoms manifest
themselves. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Royal Gramma Vs. Parasite! Just need a quick ID on a disease
of a new Royal Gramma in QT. We had white mucous from behind both
gill areas. Thought it was Oodinium but now thinking Gill Fluke
(too)?. Gave two fresh water dips last w/e with methyl blue. Added
copper at 0.25ppm. <Hopefully, in the treatment tank-not the
display, right?> Seems like its not stressed: gill movement,
feeding, general movement in tank all normal. It will rub on
(artificial) rock but often on side not looking diseased. Water
0,0,0, 8.2 (30 gal glass bottom with Eheim Pro II minus carbon
filter). Looks like a small white protrusion from gill and either
mucous/scar around gill area. (Sorry - photo not perfect!)
Thanks for your advice. Jonathan <Well Jonathan, in my
opinion, this is definitely some sort of parasitic growth. I would
stay the course on the copper treatment (following manufacturer's
instructions concerning both concentration and duration of the
treatment), and you'll be able to assess rather quickly whether or
not this course of action is working...Do stay the course, keep
feeding the fish, and maintain good environmental conditions. Best
of luck...Keep us posted! Regards, Scott F.> | 
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Injured Gramma >Good evening Crew. >>Good morning, Marina
today. >I need some advice, please. >>My pleasure. >I
purchased a Royal Gramma on October 16. Put her through a "freshwater"
dip, then 21 days of quarantine. >>A note - best qt protocol is 30
days minimum, disease free. >I moved her from the QT to my display
tank on Sunday, Nov. 7. She was fine and energetic. I have some Yellow
Tail Damsels, they bothered her for a few hours, but she went and hid
for the rest of the day/night. Monday afternoon I noticed she had some
discoloration or patchy scale like areas near and in front of her dorsal
fin. >>Sounds as though the damsels did what dem damsels do and
scraped the Gramma up a bit. >She is eating, is out and about,
doesn't seem to be bothered by the other fish anymore. Besides the 3
Damsels, I have a Canary Wrasse, and Lawnmower Blenny, various crabs,
snails, shrimp. All reside in a 55 gal with filter, skimmer, 2
powerheads, 70 lbs of LR and 30 lbs of live sand/crushed coral. Water
Quality is 76.5 degrees, 8.2 pH, No ammonia, no nitrite, about 30 ppm
Nitrate, and 1.024 SG. >>That level of nitrate can, over a period of
time, be detrimental to the fish. I recommend a few large water changes
(on the order of 50% or better), then continue as needed to
maintain. Also, macroalgal growth can be helpful, as can the addition
of a Tridacnid, T. derasa are hardy, attractive, and don't require huge
amounts of light (I grew mine under normal output fluoros matched for
best spectrum). >I have included a couple of pictures. >>Yes,
very good shots at that, too. >Should I be concerned with this?
>>Not overtly, but do have a hospital system and some antibiotic (I
recommend Spectrogram) on hand in case. I suggest first that, if you
don't already, you begin a regimen of Selcon to the fishes'
diet. Nutrition is key to recovery, not just good water quality.
>What is it? >>External injury, in my opinion. >Treatment
suggestions? >>Let the fish be, feed well, do those water changes.
>Thank you. John McKnight >>You're welcome, John. Marina |  
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Royal Gramma scare!! Hello there, I've visited the website
plenty of times and I get plenty of great advice but this time. I'm
stumped. I recently put up a 12 gallon nano cube marine setup and I have
a FOWLR set up. I just got a royal Gramma yesterday and today he was
swimming around and eating and we went out for dinner tonight and we
came home and I looked in the tank and too my surprise he was sucked up
next to the filter and my mother kinda poked him to see if he was awake
and sure enough he swam off and fled to his little cave. My question is
do royal grammas usually need a babysitter for a while? Even though I've
heard plenty that they're very hardy fish and can take care of
themselves. I'm just scared that he's going to up and die on me in the
next week or so. we've had a string of bad luck with our marine tanks.
we've done everything to take care of all of our fish but everything
seems to go wrong at the worst possible times. We had a 110 gallon setup
and it got ich the first time and wiped out almost everything except the
inverts! :( so we sold that tank and moved out of state and we just got
this nano cube last month and now it seems the bad luck has followed us.
any advice on their behavior and any signs we must look for that this
fish is getting sick would surely help. and anything you can think of as
to why he got sucked up at the filter and he lived to go back to his
home. would help also! Thanks so much for your time! Erin P.S. All
levels are good and the tanks been up for a month now if that helps any!
>Hello Erin, To start off with, having an ich outbreak that wipes
your tank out has more to do with husbandry procedures (or lack of them)
than bad luck most of the time. Always quarantine your fish before
introducing them into the display. Secondly, about your Gramma - what
kind of filter are you speaking of? There isn't always a logical reason
of these things. As far as if he's sick or not, is he alert? Is he
eating? Is his color good? Any spots or discoloration? Cheers
Jim< Royal Gramma Fin Rot part 2 3/22/05 I checked all
water quality parameters including nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia and
everything was undetectable. The pH is 8.2 and the water temperature is
77 degrees. The fish did not develop the fin rot until after I did my
first water change (9 days after I got the fish) on the quarantine
tank. <Your water quality sounds fine, although there are many
things that can affect water quality that we don't ever test for. Keep
up water changes in the 20% per month range.> It was pretty freaked
out when I was doing the water change so I wonder if this stress could
have caused it to get the fin rot? My other conclusion is that the fish
might have scrapped it's tail on a rock that I have in the tank for it
to hide under and with the added stress developed the condition.
<Such infections often do start from an injury, but I agree with Bob
that some other stress must be present to allow the infection to take
hold.> I am feeding it formula one flake food, and it eats very well.
Is this Ok nutrition wise for the fish? I have tried some meaty frozen
foods, but it doesn't eat them as well. I end up trying to scoop out
what it has left at the bottom, and this seems to stress the fish.
<This is a good quality food, but variety is the spice of life! Do try
Sally's (San Francisco) brand Brine shrimp plus and Piscine Energetics
Mysis shrimp as well as bits of squid. All are high in HUFAs and other
important nutrients.> The black smudge that is on the side of the
fish seems to be fading, do you know what it could be? <Hard to guess,
but it is encouraging that it is getting better.> Is there anything
else you recommend that I do for the fish? I really appreciate you
taking the time to answer my e-mail. Thanks, Thresa. <Good food
and good water quality are paramount. If it is getting better (even
slowly), simply continue on. If it gets worse, you could try
antibiotics, but I would avoid them if at all possible for many reasons,
especially the fact that they also kill beneficial bacteria as well as
the fact that the disease organism can develop resistance. Best Regards.
AdamC.> Sick Gramma follow up 3/30/05 Thanks for the
advice and I will give the fish food that you mentioned a try. What are
the other water quality issues that could be causing the problem? I work
in a water quality lab so I might be able to test for them.
<Potassium, Magnesium, Sulfate, Iodine, etc. are all things that are
biologically important but rarely tested for. Also, the presence of just
about any chemical (household chemicals, oils, pesticides, etc.) could
theoretically cause problems. These are admittedly unlikely
possibilities, but regular water changes are a great way to eliminate
any of them at one time.> My quarantine tank is a 30 gallon tall tank
that was given to me, could this cause the dissolved oxygen to be too
low? If so could this be the source of the problem? I keep a live rock
in there with the fish, I know it's not good to keep live rock in a
quarantine tank, but I had an extra one. <Low DO is a possibility if
water movement is inadequate, especially at night when no photosynthesis
is occurring. You can use pH as an indicator of gas exchange. Test the
pH right before the lights come on in the morning. Take another sample
outdoors and aerate it well. If the pH rises more than about .1, CO2
is accumulated (and O2 likely low.).> I really
want to resolve the underlying problem, because I plan on quarantining
more fish in this tank once the Gramma gets better and is moved to the
main tank. Again I really appreciate you taking the time to address my
questions. Thanks, Thresa <If the pH test indicates poor gas
exchange, the addition of an airstone or more water movement may solve
the problem. Otherwise, I would suggest regular water changes along with
good general husbandry. Best Regards. AdamC.>
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