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FAQs about Non-Vertebrate Animal Disease
Related Articles: Marine Invertebrates, Marine
Invertebrate identification, Marine Invertebrate
Selection, Marine Invertebrate Systems, Marine
Invertebrate Compatibility, Marine
Invertebrate Reproduction, Quarantine
of Corals and Invertebrates, Feeding
Reef Invertebrates, Lighting Marine Invertebrates,
Water
Flow, How Much is Enough,
Related FAQs: Marine Invert.s 1, Marine
Invert.s 2, Marine Invert.s 3, Marine Plankton,
A Fungia and Halomitra.
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Possible sea cucumber problem
6/18/08
Hello,
<Hello, Jack!>
I've searched and searched, and cannot find any specific answers, so out
of desperation I'm asking my very first question!
<Sounds good. Thanks for searching!>
In one of my labs, I've got a 4 month old, 75gal marine tank (w ~20gal
sump) which...until this morning...held only a cleaning crew (snails,
hermits, and two peppermint shrimp), live sand, live rock and gobs of
green algae. I just received two "Marine Invertebrate" sets and some
jellyfish from Ward's Scientific,
<mm...yes>
and within an hour of introducing the various species (I know, too many
at a time, but it's the only tank we've got...I still need to get a
quarantine tank going) BOTH peppermint shrimp were in the open, on their
sides, twitching. They died about 2 hours later.
http://wardsci.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_IG0013628_A_name_E_Invertebrate+Living+Specimen+Set+1
http://wardsci.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_IG0013629_A_name_E_Invertebrate+Living+Specimen+Set+2
http://wardsci.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_IG0013404_A_name_E_Jellyfish+Living+Specimen
I took great care to minimize introducing very much foreign water to the
tank.
<Okay. How did you acclimate them? Did you slowly transition the water
in the bags to system water, or did you just release these organisms
into the tank? Simply dropping them in would most likely kill them
promptly.>
Especially, from the sea cucumber bag! I called Ward's, and they could
only tell me that the genus/species was "Cucumaria".
<Generic...>
Nevertheless, I suspect the Cuke got freaked out in transit and spewed
some toxins upon arrival.
<Much more a predation response than environmental>
Are there any other possible explanations, given the long list of newly
introduced critters (check the ward's links, above)?
<Be advised that the animals sold by Ward are not compatible with each
other, and are rarely properly identified by the company. In my
experience with these sets the instructions for care are poor, and the
animals sick or doomed upon arrival. The jellyfish, for example, are
completely unsuitable tankmates for the other offered specimens, and
will require special aquaria to house them. Most of the echinoderms sold
by Ward simply cannot be kept without intensive feeding and water change
regimens- not what a zoology or invert. phys. class needs!>
I've done a partial water change. What other precautions should I take?
<I would test your water parameters and see if something is seriously
out of whack, and review acclimation procedures. Perhaps consider paying
a bit more for some select, research specimens from another source.>
I promise, to never introduce so many animals to the tank, ever again.
Thank you!
<No problem.>
-Jack
<Benjamin>
Re: Possible sea cucumber problem
- 6/18/08
Thanks for the prompt response. I've had a few hours to further
research the situation, here's an update:
1. Acclimation occurred over the entire morning yesterday:
a) each bag was floated for 1 hour; followed by b) adding tank water to
the bag (1 pt tank : 2 pts bag volume) and another hour of floating;
followed by c) emptying 1/2 of that water (into sink), topping off w
tank water, and floating for another 1/2 hour; and finally d) adding
critter to tank while minimizing the introduction of baggy water. Snails
and hermit crab were rinsed under tapwater too.
<If anything, this might have been too long, but since you had them
floating temperature shouldn't have been a problem. I doubt acclimation
was the problem.>
2. Nobody else was dead this morning. Yay!
<Glad to hear it!>
3. I no longer attribute the shrimps' demise to the cucumber. A more
likely suspect would be the jelly's.
They'd shed lots of slime (nematocysts?) in transit, and 2 out of 3 had
actually LOST THEIR MANUBRIA...incidentally, the injured jelly's and
detached mouth-pieces are still pulsating on the tank's floor. I now
hypothesize that the shrimp were knocked off by free-floating
nematocysts.
<Very possible! Cnidarians can shed a lot of stinging cells under
stress.>
4. I consider the Cassiopeia's doomed if they remain in this tank, and a
hazard to whatever strolls past them.
<Both correct.>
I'm setting up a temporary 10gal w/ steep live sand "banks" on either
end, and setting up a weak submersible filter on the bottom to create a
pseudo-circular, vertical current.
I've got some high-power full-spectrum fluorescents (used on lizards) I
can put on a timer, too. Meanwhile, I'll see if anyone around here wants
em (LFS, Bio dept, aquarium...) and, worse case scenario, I'll preserve
them for our teaching collection (I waste NOTHING around here!).
<Sounds like a good plan.>
5. More research has me concerned about the Featherdusters and predation
from: red and blue-legged hermits, brittle star, and the urchin. Real,
or paranoia? Time will tell...
<There is certainly risk, but they should be fine. Hermit crabs will eat
just about anything, given the chance, but as long as there is easier
food to be found, they probably won't be going after something the have
to catch.>
The determining factors in choosing Ward's over the LFS:
very good prices (surprising, actually),
guaranteed delivery, a 20% off coupon and an established tax-exempt
account.
<Understood.>
The lack of documentation was acceptable, since I'm quite capable of
researching various problems,
<Clearly. You definitely did your homework before you wrote this reply!>
but I'm ashamed to have assumed that their sets were compatible...and to
have created this Darwinian situation.
<Selective pressure notwithstanding, compatibility and mortality are
perpetual problems in aquaria. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over your
assumption- it is reasonable to expect that sets of specimens from a
reputable supply company would be compatible...that said, often time
accuracy is sacrificed to Mammon in this hobby.>
I should have known better, given that they included Aiptasia anemones
in one set!
<Probably helps keep the price down...and, given they aren't overfed
they can be fascinating. You might be interested in information re
aiptasia culturing/filtering...use of aiptasia to clean water.>
Best regards,
-Jack
<The same! Benjamin>
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Invert Deaths.... need more info 2/11/07
Good Afternoon,
I suspect that you are not going to like some aspects of my system but I am
hoping that you may see something I don't. I have a death issue. I have had
a red crab, emerald crab, peppermint shrimp, camel back shrimp, sally
lightfoot crab, and Hawaiian pom-pom crab die over the past 5 months for no
reason. Usually little bits of them are floating at the top of the tank one
random morning, but never the next day. I have a 55 gallon tank with a
yellow tang, coral beauty, flame angel, fire fish goby, percula clown,
yellow headed watchman goby, scooter blenny, and mandarin goby (unrelated
issue: not doing so well - I didn't read your article first). There are a
few polyps and a few mushrooms, lots of snails, pods, various worms, etc.
The tank also has about 60 lbs of live rock. Filtration: Magnum 350, Skilter
250, and an Aquaclear 30/60. Lighting: 110w high output compact and 80w
fluorescent blue actinic. A handful of peppermint shrimp, small hermit
crabs, and one large cleaner shrimp are apparently doing pretty well,
because every so often I have a tank full of larvae-looking things, not sure
who from but they look different every time. Water parameters are all
normal. I thought I might have had a mantis, but haven't seen anything, and
the snails and hermits are doing fine. Of all the fish, I suspect the
yellow tang, but everyone at the LFS's scoff at the very suggestion. I
bought a coral banded shrimp last night, in the hopes that a more robust
crustacean would "make it" vs. whatever is doing them in. So far so good.
Any thoughts?
<Before I "hypothesize" would you mid re-sending this email along with tank
parameters? Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia....etc.? I also did not see the tank
size...water change regime....more info please?>
Thanks for your time, you guys have a great website, it has prevented me
from making many mistakes.
Marshall
<Adam J.>
Unhappy inverts & spelling, punctuation... 1/23/07
Hey guys.
<Hi Glen.>
What an incredible repository. <Quite.> Hopefully you can answer my questions
and save my inverts any more grief than they need.
<Let's see, shall we?>
I have had 3 snails<,> 2 hermits and a<n> emerald crab living in my tank for
about 3 weeks now. I cycled my tank for a month and in the last week of the
cycle <I> added the inverts. <I> have been running for a month and a half.
<Like in that movie? Did you go from one ocean to another and back? ;) >
In the last week my inverts have been acting weird. My hermits are hiding in
their shells a lot and not moving much.
<Not a good sign, as you guessed. Usually indicates poor water chemistry.>
My snails don't move much.
<Sometimes you just think so, as they can find the same spot they sat on the day
before.>
Today I came home and for the first time in a long time they are all on the
glass.
one is right on the water line. <O>ne somehow crawled up onto the out end of the
remora HOB skimmer. So why would my snails be running from the water Aloand <aloand?>
the hermits hiding?
<Snails are wanderers by nature. That's one reason we have to go to lengths to
keep them grounded in the system to avoid clogging key components. AS stated
before, hermits and most other inverts for that matter, are more sensitive to
poor water conditions and show it. Recommend some testing here.>
Here's the thing that I suspect is the problem. So top off for the longer time
<I> was being super careful. I preheated my top off water to the same
temperature then started a siphon and added it. (generally <I> am adding about a
gallon of top off a day)
Now as most of you know this is tedious.
<But necessary...>
So in the last week <I> haven<'>t been preheating the water and <I> made 5
gallons (<I> have a<n> ro/di unit) and have been scooping a gallon out of that
for the last week and adding it. I quit being careful about the pouring and <I>
have not been heating the water. <I>
just checked the water temperature of the top off <and> it<'>s 68 deg and the
tank I have been keeping at 77.
<Doesn't sound like a stable temperature to me, but I don't know how big the
system is, thus I can't say how dramatically that would be felt by livestock...>
Other things that have been different I have not been able to get home at night
to turn off the daylights an hour or so before the antics.
<Not sure what you mean by that...>
So here's my test numbers:
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Phosphates 0
Nitrates 0
Calcium 400
<Salinity? Temperature fluctuation? (Not as important for the snails) >
<A>ll tests are <A>quarium <P>harmaceuticals except for calcium<,which is>
[that's] <R>ed <S>ea
So how do I bring my snails back from the brink?
<You don't mention whether you have LS and/or LR or what species of snail you
have...>
Oh and that's all I have in my 55 <Ahh, there's the tank size...> and the algae
is starting to get out of control.
<Is it possible you are dealing with a type of algae the snails don't eat? For
example: Cyanobacteria, Snot algae... others.>
I thought it was good for a while but its been getting worse (partially because
the snails haven't seemed to been eating)
Thanks as always guys. It really has been twisting me in knots because <I'>m
wor<r>ied <that> my mom is going to be right<:> that <I> am going to lose to the
algae and nature.
<Hope is not lost Glen. I would turn to the information source you have at your
disposal here at WWM. It sounds like you have a *LOT* of reading to do.
Information is the best fix for any potential problems. I might add that
replying to your message took me TWENTY MINUTES longer than it should have as I
corrected most of the grammatical, spelling, punctuation errors. Please
understand if my response is terse in kind.
-GrahamT.>
Glen McKnight.
How long do you quarantine Invertebrates? 1/21/07
<Hi, Tony.>
I have 9 Hermit Crabs, 5 snails, one Chocolate Chip Star fish, and a cleaner
shrimp and I have them in a quarantine tank. I had an outbreak of ich in my old
tank and it eventually crashed. So I was wondering how long I need to quarantine
them for before I move them to my new tank.
<
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quarinvertfaqs.htm
If the tank has been fallow for 6-8wks, then it is considered safe. If they were
in the system that crashed, then you may as well consider them carriers unless
it has been a while after the crash.>
Thanks,
Tony P.
<-Graham T.>
Invertebrates ... env. prob./s 1/21/07
Hello my friends! I am having a very difficult time with invertebrates. I
have a 75 gal tank, 25 gal sump refugium with 70+ lbs of live rock. It has been
cycling for a few months and my fish are doing fine (2 Clarki and 1 hippo tang)
I have also had a brown algae (diatoms?) bloom and a smaller green algae bloom
which have cleared up very nice. I have 2 MH and 4 t5 (2 white 2 blue)
for lighting. 3.5 in sand bed. All of my water tests have been great, salinity
1.022,
<Too low... "invertebrates" by and large are sensitive to disparate or changing
spg>
8.1PH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 20 ppm nitrates,
<Borderline high...>
0 copper, this was also confirmed by 2 LFS. Every-time I introduce snails or an
anemone (with 2hr drip) they die in a day or 2 and decompose.
<"Something" else amiss here then... such rapid losses... lead me to believe
another metal contamination is at play here...>
I wait until I know they are dead for sure and not just in shock. My fans
and worms on liverock died also. I have also noticed a death of some kind of
worm on the sand bed. I have used RO water for the aquarium and my LFS
suggested a 20 percent water change with conditioned tap.
<A good suggestion>
I have since done that and waited a week to introduce more snails. The snails
have since met their maker. I have tried many different snails all with the
same outcome. My LFS has no idea what could be causing this?
<Another more specific chemistry anomaly could be either deficient alkalinity
(which the tap and synthetic salt mix aren't providing) or an outright imbalance
of Magnesium (needs to be about 3X the concentration of Ca...)>
The only answer they will give me now is they must be starving and it was a bit
offending.
<Starving? No...>
Any suggestions would be great! I do not want to be
known as the notorious invert killer! Thanks! Shayne
<Read on my friend... starting here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/snaildisfaqs.htm
and the linked files embedded, where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>
Water... perennial loss of marine invert.s 12/26/05
Hello. Pretty much every invertebrate that I add to my saltwater tank dies
within a month, without fail, snails, shrimp, hermit crabs etc, and is probably
due in part to high copper content of the local tapwater. Is distilled water a
suitable alternative lieu of a RO/di filter which I cannot afford, or should I
just continue to use tapwater treated with Prime or some other such product?
<I'd just go with distilled. James (Salty Dog)> <<... I
definitely would not use distilled... too expensive... Do have your source water
checked and save up for an RO device, take the time to read over WWM re invert.
systems, care. RMF>>
Problems after salinity increase 3/6/05
I recently raised my salt level (it was pretty low). In the last two days I noticed one of my emerald crabs dead, my xenia has shrunk and my brittle star has lost an arm and had some white spots on him. Should I wait, do a water change or other? Thanks, John
<Salinity changes are very hard on inverts, and what you are describing is probably due to this change. I would suggest increases of no more than 0.003 (1.017-1.020 for example) in any one day and giving the animals a couple of days to acclimate. If you have been more aggressive than this, I would just give everything a few days to acclimate (trying to drop the salinity back down will just add to the stress). Also, I would strongly suggest checking your salinity measuring device against another aquarists, a local fish store or a refractometer. "Swing arm" style devices are notoriously inaccurate. Best Regards.
AdamC.>
Inverts dying
Hey Blundell,
< Hey Martin. >
I'm in a bit of quandary here. I've finished setting up my
137 gallon AGA. I've been cycling the water for more than a month after mixing
it directly in the tank. All the live rock was cured in the tank. I've got two
skimmers running. The current tank parameters are 82.6 temp, 8.23 PH and 310
ORP. The calcium is a bit low (under 300) but I will add a Kalkwasser reactor
soon. Three weeks ago I put in a blue damsel just to see how the water was and
it has been doing fine. I added a medium
sized clown and a small clown fish a week later and all the inhabitants are
thriving. I tried adding an anemone last week which was very well established
in my dealers
tank and it promptly died the following day. < The following day!? Wow that is
odd, and reason to be concerned. > This weekend thinking that was just a fluke,
I put a large pizza anemone in and a small white anemone. Both died almost
immediately. In addition, I had a small pizza anemone that had been my 30
gallon tank for over two months and when I moved in to my big tank, it promptly
died as well. My question is why would the three fish
that I put in plus a coral banded shrimp and anemone shrimp all be thriving
while the four anemones I put in have all died just hours after I put them
in? < Right off I'm guessing metal poisoning. Something like copper in the
water. I would either do some serious tests, or as bad as this sounds, I'd
consider taking down the tank and starting over. Please check biological
filtration and make sure you don't have some very high nitrates or ammonia. > Am
I missing something here? < Certainly, but I'm not sure what. >
Thanks!
Martin
< Blundell >
Invertebrate deaths 16 Aug 2004
Hi Bob, <Hey Jay, MacL here with you today. Puzzling over your email.> I would
be extremely appreciative if you could help me with a problem I am having with
my tank, I cannot seem to keep stuff alive. In my tank right now I have a
clownfish and about 15 small hermit crabs who are all doing ok. Whenever I get
snails they die right away, I always get turbo snails and they die quick. <Do
you check your levels? With a snail death I'd be interested in your ph, your
salinity, and your nitrates.> I also tried to put some peppermint shrimp in my
tank and they were upside down dead within an hour. I have a 29 gallon tank with
a lot of live rock and a Jebo 180 protein skimmer. I have also tried to keep
anemones and they die right away also, <Same question. All of those things I
mentioned could have a detrimental effect on anemones, snails, and shrimp.
There's a possibility it could be iodine levels out of whack as well? Do you add
iodine? If it weren't for the crabs staying alive I would ask you if the tank
had ever held copper of any kind?> which puzzles me because the crabs and clown
fish live ok. can you offer me any answers or advice, thanks again sir. jay <Jay
did you buy the tank new? There's no chance it did have copper? If not its very
possibly your ph. Do you have a test kit or can you take it by a pet store and
have them run the ENTIRE battery of tests on it? Don't worry we will figure out
this puzzle together. MacL>
- Snail & Brittle Star Problems -
Hey guys, I read through a few pages of notes on your sight, found a few answers
but not fully satisfied with what I could find so I am pestering you for more if
you have time. All of my turban snails are upside down... I have turned them
over but later on are upside down again. <I'm guessing they are falling off
the glass.> I noticed my brittle stars are acting very odd as well. 2 are
dead or at least in a coma of sorts. <Not sure what that means.> One zoanthids
covered rock has been closed up for about week or so, but other zoanthids are
open and fine. Feather dusters fish and Porites are fine too. I tested water as
per sight recommendations and seems my ph is freaky high( or maybe I am over
reacting) it is in the 8.2 to 9.0 range!!! <That's a pretty broad range...
can you get a more specific number? If the pH is actually as high as 9.0, then
that is likely your problem.> (10 gal mini reef.. weekly water changes and
carbon change as well. Ro water is used, mixed with instant ocean salt a few
days before and circulated. I had buffered with baking soda for a few water
changes and am suspecting that is the problem. If I do a 50% water change
without the baking soda will this bring down the ph? <Depends on the pH of
the water going in, but would caution you against making too drastic of a change
in a tank of this size... try not to move the pH more than one tenth of a point
in either direction in a 24 hour period.> I am heading back into the notes in
your sight after this but wanted to ask this now in case I don't find all the
info I need. Thanks for the ear to bend and the reply. Pete
PS: SURF is UP on the Kona coast!!!! woohoo.. monsters are rolling in!!!
<Is what I've heard - Bob Fenner is there now, moaning about not being able
to go diving. Enjoy. Cheers, J -- >
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