Koran Angel question, comp.   12/14/08
Hi guys, I am 17 years old, just getting into this hobby about a year ago.
I have been reading all of these FAQs on large angels and have really learned a lot about them. Thank you. But I am searching for an answer on their aggressive nature. I think my other fish can deal with a bold fish addition, just not a bossy or mean tempered one. That's the problem I am having with this favorite of the large angels species. So is it just bold, or is it more of an aggressive fish? Biting, harming other roommates, or just chasing them away from his cave? I have a 300 gallon aquarium. I have a Lipstick, and a Sailfin Tang, a butterfly and a Banggai Cardinal in there now. I am getting a Coral Beauty for Christmas, and want to add a Koran at the same time. No reef, just the piles of live rock. I want to be responsible, and not let the others get bit or bullied to death. Thanks guys for helping so many people!
Jeff.
<Mmm, as far as the family goes, Pomacanthus semicirculatus is not really "that" big... likely topping out at a foot or so total length in this/your setting ultimately (some others would exceed this by another six inches or so)... and Pomacanthids as a group are not "mean"... let's say, like some Triggerfish species, specimens can be... And one should do fine here with the other fishes you mention and size to move about, live in. I give you very good odds here of having a Koran Angel that will get along. Bob Fenner>

Sand Dollars, sel. , Angel Behavior/comp. 9/30/08
Hi,
<Hello>
Thanks for all your help you have given in the past!
Just a few questions...can you use sand dollars for tank decoration??
<As in the dried skeletons? These can be used but may dissolve over time and will likely look more like flat pieces of live rock after a while. Live sand dollars will starve in all but the largest tanks.>
How can darkness or a week or two without the lights on be beneficial to your fish??
Just wondering, I am having to turn off the lights for a while until my B/G Algae dies off some. I read that this can be beneficial to your fish.
<It can lower stress for fish in a new environment, but overall I think it's effects are negligible as long as there is enough light for them to see with.>
Will a Koran Angel (4" Juvi) eat Zoanthids, or crocea clams??
<I would not trust a Koran with either of these.>
Thanks for all your knowledge! Your Great!
Dawn
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Koran Angel/Compatibility   8/21/07
I have a 110 gallon tank with about 100 lbs of live rock. Have had it a little over a year and recently traded in most of the fish I had because I wanted some new looking fish. Anyway what I have left in the tank are a Purple Tang, about 5 inches, and a Flame Hawkfish, 3 inches. Would a Koran Angel be able to survive with a Purple Tang or would he get beaten up?
The Koran I'm looking at is a juvenile about 3 inches big.
<The Koran should be OK with the Purple Tang, different color, different family. I have a juvenile Koran in my tank (5'x 1.5'), less than 3 inches long and he is keeping company with a Sailfin Tang five times his size with no issues at all.
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jim

Re: Koran Angel and Coral Reef   1/4/07
Thank you for responding so quickly....What type of angel would be better for my tank if this big guy doesn't work out?
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fishindex3.htm
The pomacanthid/Angelfish files in the first tray... Bob Fenner>

Question: I have a 55 gallon reef tank with several Brain corals, Torch, Galaxy, Xenia, mushrooms, Bubble coral and sponge. The Koran angle fish is about 1" long. Is it safe to put it in my reef tank? I currently have it in my 20 gallon tank. Is there something I can do, If I decide to put it in the reef?
Bob's Answer: One inch? You can try it and see as the Angel grows to a few inches whether it is bothering your corals too much. Keep looking for a bigger tank...

Compatibility Question
Hey Bob,
I put my Koran Angel, (2 inches) in the 55. It's the 1st time its in there.
And there are 2 Percs in the tank. The Koran Angel is "herding" the Percs into the corner. I don't know what to do. I still have a yellow tang waiting to come in. Should I just put the tang in so it controls the Koran?
Please help, however, the Koran doesn't really fight the Percs just scares it.
Its weird i had a flame angel that was about 3-4 inches and it was having troubles w/ my perc too, but not like this.
The Percs don't' even put up a fight. I think when I put my yellow tang in, it might help. What do you think, and what do you think i should do? THANKS.
>>
I would leave these fishes together at this point IF there is no apparent damage being inflicted on the clowns... and would add the other fishes and some live rock. Ultimately you will need a much larger system for these.
Bob Fenner

Carpet Munching Angel
>Is it normal for my juvenile Koran angelfish fish to continually nip at my new (approx 1 week old) green carpet anemone?  
>>The angel isn't one week old, he's been in your system one week, yes?  (Oh, I do hope quarantine has been done first!).  Short answer, yes, it's normal.. well, not exactly normal, but not unusual.  Of course, I have honestly never kept a Koran with a carpet anemone.
>How is he doing this without getting stung?  
>>Not all fish are as susceptible to nematocysts as others, though those of a carpet do pack a punch!  I would either remove the anemone, or the angel.  Do expect the fish to continue until the anemone dies.
>He is nipping right at the tentacles.  My Percula clown will not go near the anemone yet.  Do I need to do anything to protect the anemone?    
Thanks, Brian F
>>You really can't, short of removing one or the other.  The clown WON'T go near the anemone if it's too small to have any hope of driving off the angel.  A tomato, maroon, or skunk clown pair, now they might have something different to say on the matter!  Marina

Aggressive Koran Angel
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hi, Don with you today>
I need some of that knowledgeable advice you guys are so wonderful about giving.
I’m just starting out with a newer 55 gallon with 4" of live sand and 75# of live rock. All water parameters are great, Ricordea Mushrooms are thriving and the snails have been happily doing their jobs for about 7 months.
The problem is my very aggressive Koran Angel. (He was an impulse buy – so pretty…and now after doing research I know the tank is to small for long-term – Hoping he will be OK for a couple of years – if he makes it…) He was one of four fish added when the water was safe, and is definitely the king of the tank. Mated Ocellaris Clowns, and a strawberry Pseudochromis were his tank mates. The female Clown jumped out after 3 months , and I had to put the Pseudochromis in the quarantine tank for safety as she and the Angel were so hostile towards each other.
I rearranged the rocks and added a tiny little Ocellaris Clown (after a month in another 20 g quarantine tank), which the other clown seemed to accept, but was harassed by the Angel. I thought they would adjust, but in the morning the little clown was no where to be found. Besides the Angel, there isn’t anything in the tank that could have harmed the little one.
Now the Angel is taking shots at the male Clown – besides the cleaner shrimp and snails, if anything moves in or even goes close to the tank it gets attacked. Seriously, the Angel attacks the glass if anybody sits in front of the tank – this behavior occurs even after he is feed. When you move back he stops, when you move back up he’s biting the glass in front of you.
I really do not want to return the Angel, but I can not allow him to misbehave so terribly and he seems to be getting worse. I don’t know, maybe he is board and needs some dither fish? Following is the plan to expand my reef and hopefully settle down the Angel, please let me know your thoughts.
<It needs more room and fewer other fish in this small of tank>
Quarantine Angel for about 6-8 weeks in 20 gallon tank (this should allow enough time for the new members to established territories)
Rearrange rocks
Add Royal Gramma, False Percula Clown, Flasher Wrasse, Midas Blenny, Purple Tang, Purple Blade Gorgo, Toadstool Leather, Cabbage Leather, Lobophytum Leather, Blue and Red Mushrooms
Reintroduce Angel
I’m hoping since he hasn’t bothered the Ricordeas, the other corals will be fine – I am really worried about the little fish, although I think the Tang would be OK. I am attached to the little psycho, but if I want other fishes, maybe I just have to cut my losses? After 2 years, if I did wait and set up the 125 – what other fishes could get along with him?
<I understand you position and anguish but I would not reintroduce the angel. I would not introduce the purple tang (or any other tang) for the same reasons as the angel (aggressive and too big for a 55) The rest of the list, with the Pseudochromis, looks good. Personally, I would stop there as there are many benefits to a small load on a system. Hope this helps, Don>
Sorry for the length, but I’m really torn - any input would be greatly appreciated.

Koran Angel
Hi Bob,
<Travois>
    Sorry to bother you, hope you aren't too tired of turkey yet!!
<I REALLY like Turkey>
I am a newbie at marine tanks and I bought a juve Koran Angel about 2.5 inches today along with a 3 inch Naso (lipstick) Tang. I know they (Koran's) like to "nip" inverts. My question is this. I have a new 75 gallon tank (approx. 6 wks old), no real corals, one nocturnal sessile anemone, and some tube worms (also an apparent outbreak of feather duster/ tubeworm larvae upstarts all over my LR).
<No worries>
Can this one small fish devastate my inverts, or will he just take a taste now and then and allow them to continue to grow as long as I sell him, or upgrade my tank to a much larger one before he matures? I appreciate you time on this one.
Sincerely,
The Newb
Travois
<Likely no trouble whatsoever. Bob Fenner>
P.S. I'd still like to get some established soft corals and a clown

Koran in Reef?
>Howzit guys?
>>Itz goin' a'ight.  Snowy, chilly, but pretty cool all in all.
>First off I just wanna thank all of you running the WetWebMedia.Com site.  Keep up the great work knowing that without this site a lot of marine aquarists, including myself, would have made big expensive and shame full mistakes.
>>And freshwater aquarists, and brackish water aquarists, and the odd herp fan or two.  Then there are the school kids and teachers and people wondering about cures gained from aquatic specimens and so on and so forth.  So, what's up?
>Now onto my question.  I recently purchased a 2 inch Koran Angelfish
from my LFS.  He had been in quarantine for about 2 weeks @ the shop and has been in my quarantine tank for about 1 week.
>>VERY cool.  30 days total disease-free, and he's on his way.
>I have given him 1 freshwater dip but otherwise no medication. He's eating Nori, Spirulina, algae and Artemia daily.
>>Fantastic, but I think he needs a better variety of meaty foods.  Add some chopped krill, squid, octopus, and the like, and soak the Nori/dried foods in Selcon and MAN he'll be righteous in no time!
>My question is would he be all right in my 135 gallon reef tank?
>>Hhmm.. full reef?  Softies, stonies, LPS/SPS?  Clams..?
>This tank currently houses 2 black clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 cleaner wrasse (that I've watched change coloration from baby to juvenile and now coming on adult) and 1 Regal tang, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Pot Wine Shrimp, Hermits and Turbos.
>>I'm sure you've heard this before, but the cleaner wrasse will have trouble doing well in a system that is not only small, but has a very real dearth of LARGE fishes upon which to perform its duties.  Hopefully, whatever prepared foods he gets will be good enough, but this is often not the case.  (This note is for other readers' benefit as well as yours.)
>All these fish are babies and have been doing fine for quite a few months
now.
>>Likely they will/should, but all will grow, and grow a great deal if your system is in top notch shape.  Do be prepared to pull the tang, the cleaner wrasse (possibly donate to public aquarium if such is nearby and suitable), as well as the Koran in around two to three years.. maybe less if you're REALLY good!
>I've also got a mixed variety of LPS, SPS, 1 Maxima Clam and 1 Radianthus Anemone.
>>I would not put a large angel into this mix.  I would expect LPS, clam, and quite possibly the anemone to all be sampled to death.
>I'm still looking to add a Flame Hawkfish, 2 Neon Gobies, 1 Yellow Tang and 1 Flame Angel.
>>In my opinion, when including the large fishes, you may quickly see them become overcrowded.  Those numbers and types of fish would be better in a system approximately double the current size.  Things to watch for are disease, infighting with lethal consequences, and a failure to thrive.
>Will this be a tall order and if so which would be the best to leave out?
>>I would really be careful with the angel and those LPS corals, the clam, and the anemone.  Really.  I'm glad you're adding the Z. flavescens later.  As for the neon gobies, I would use THEM for cleaner duties instead of the wrasse.  I really love these diminutive little fishes - they're colorful, peaceful, hardy, easy to feed, and just plain neat-O!  In a system that size you could easily put in a rather large group, 5-10.
>I could take the Ocellaris clowns out at a later stage if need be cause they're also harassing my black clowns.
>>To be expected.  You may wish to go ahead and get it over and done with.
>I'm running an Aqua Medic T1000 Skimmer.
>>I think that animal should be performing well for you.  Have you mentioned a refugium?  I think that for the animal numbers you have and are looking to acquire, you could use a 40-50 gallon 'fuge.  Increases water volume, AND you can culture cool macroalgae to feed the tangs!
>In the long run the Koran will out grow the tank but by that time my 3.5m x 1m x 1m fish only tank will be up and he'll be moved.
>>Excellent!  This still may not prevent him from enjoying the table you've set, but in a large system he'll really enjoy him/herself.
>Bearing in mind somebody else took home a Koran the same size from the same shipment and he's doing fine in the reef set-up he's being kept in.
>>Keep their bellies full and you may have a greater chance of fewer upsets, but be prepared for the worst.  A balance needs to be struck.  What is worth more to you?  Many folks are simply unwilling to take any risks with their reefs, others have frags practically growing out of their ears.  Just be aware.  Oh!  Also, I can't remember the thread (DO search!), but someone on http://www.reefs.org started a thread asking about large Pomacanthids in reef settings some months ago; who's done it and succeeded, or what were your results sort of thing.  There are those who have had success, but I honestly cannot recollect their system specs.
>Any information will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance - Daniel
>>I'm assuming you've already searched our site for whatever information we have to offer, including the angel faq's.  Not too long ago.. alright, I admit, it's getting on to twenty years, but to ME it's not too long ago.. where was I..?  Oh yeah, not too long ago the 'rule' was NO large angels in any reef of any kind.  Of course, at this time the 'rule' was also that it was impossible to keep SPS stonies, so, there ya go.  I'd like to ask you to keep us updated, though, on what results you have, behaviors observed, etc. with this angel in your system.  Photos would be nice, but we do ask that all photos submitted be limited to around 300 pixels a side (for space/bandwidth constraints).  My point is, it would add to the data/knowledge base, and thus be helpful.  Whatever you decide to do, good luck!  Marina

Koran in Reef? Follow-up
>Thanks for the quick and accurate response.
>>Quick, yes, I'm not so sure how accurate it is.  There are always exceptions to the rules.
>I haven't really heard exactly why cleaners don't do well in the marine system.
>>It is at least hypothesized (if not yet proven) that prepared foods don't provide full nutrition for them.  The same can be said for animals such as mandarin gobies in immature systems.  Natural food selection means the animal can essentially choose its nutrition according to needs, whereas with prepped foods it doesn't have that choice.  Since yours is doing so well, I'd guess that you're feeding quite well, and/or there are some other needs being met.
>All I know is that I've had mine for about 6-months and he's about double the size he was when I got him, he's also eating and is rather plump at the moment.
>>You're adding to the knowledge base, if you got yourself a young individual and he's acclimated nicely to prepped foods, and lives out a natural lifespan, then your techniques and information could be invaluable to helping prevent needless deaths.  Should you wish to share this information with us, as well as long-term follow-up, it would be placed in our database.
>I'm currently running a 100 litre sump with natural aragonite, liverock and Caulerpa.  At the moment I'm going to do more research until the quarantine is over. You can never know too much.
>>Indeed, or be too prepared, or have too big a refugium!
>Should I place some coral into the quarantine tank and see if he samples them.
>>My goodness, well, my friend, if you've got frags to spare, I honestly don't see why NOT.  I think it's a good idea, actually.
>One of my friends placed a large regal angel into his 1.5m x 60cm x 1m reef and in the beginning he sampled everything and finished a xenia or two. But now he's not touching anything and is eating flakes.
>>Wow, now that's impressive, seeing as how they're commonly considered corallivores.  I know of one other person (personally) who's got Regals that are doing well, but they're FOWLR, not actual reef settings.  His fish do look pretty good.
>It seems like the fashion overseas, I'm situated in South Africa, to try and wean large angels of corals and keep them in the reef.
>>Hhmm.. it's been too long since I've kept my own fish or had any customers for me to speak intelligently on what's *de riguer*, here or in Europe, etc.  Whereabouts in S.A.?  Durban?  (Had a friend who was living in Durban, now in southern Holland if I recollect.)
>P.S. Do you think I should go for a natural quarantine tank with cleaner shrimp or a synthetic one with copper etc.?
>>It is my opinion that a q/t system should not be stressful, but really must be ready for meds IF they're warranted.  That means a bare tank (but with hiding places made of easily sterilized PVC pieces).  There are others who disagree.  In any event, I personally don't advocate the hobbyist using copper prophylactically.  If it's not obviously necessary, there's no reason to stress the fish with it.  Just have it on hand if it does become needed, and with the tank bare (no live rock, or other porous materials) you can treat immediately.
>Thanks again. I'll tell you what's happening in about 3 weeks when quarantining is over. Does it need to be 30 days in my quarantine alone or 30 days in mine and the shop's?
>>30 days, under YOUR observation, disease-free, mate.  Then you're golden, Daniel.  Marina

Koran in Reef - Z. flavescens Didn't Make It
>Hey!
>>Hello from way up here to way down south there!  How are you doing, Daniel?  (I've been in Chicago, I had another message from you that I was saving to put along with this, but it's nowhere to be found.)
>A few days ago I added a Healthy Yellow Tang from an established system
where it had been 4 years.
>>Uh oh.. this sounds as though you didn't qt this fish.
>It was eating algae and flakes almost immediately.
>>Ok, that sounds fine.
>Then on the 2'nd day it stopped eating. On the third day in the  morning it was breathing really fast and it seemed that he had a really obvious red mottled kind of splotch on his one side.
>>This is so common, but I haven't yet read/found a definitive cause for this.  Usually, and especially in a healthy system, they can recover after a time.  Normally this takes some weeks, though.  The rapid gilling is a bad sign of stress, infection, or possible parasitic infection, though.
>I then had to leave for school and when I got back it was dead.
>>JEEZ!  That fast?  Not even a day?  Could another fish in the system possibly have been harassing it?  Something's going on there, and I feel I must assume that you know full well how to acclimate, about pH shifts, etc., to have not been diligent in putting him into the system (except for skipping quarantine - this is simply because you haven't mentioned it).
>P.S The Koran seems to be chowing the Pulsing Xenia.
>>Heh, I know some people who would like to have him in their systems, their xenia have exploded to plague proportions!
>Monitoring the situation but I think he may have to be removed.
>>Hm, too bad.  What about the person with the other Koran that came from the same batch?  Are they having the same problems?
>P.P.S I've got a longnose hawkfish in quarantine. How long will he need
to be in for? He's looking really healthy.
>>Repeat the following mantra - "Thirty days DISEASE FREE, and this little fish will please me."  <insert silly grin>
>Thanks in advance.
>>You're welcome, and sorry for the delay, Daniel.  Marina

Koran Angel
Hello again,
just a quick question for you. I have a 135 gallon tank, with 120 pounds of live rock, lots of open swimming room and so on, I was thinking of a larger angel as a show piece. I really like the Koran but realize he gets too big for my tank.<Hello Sharon. I personally think a 135 is large enough for a Koran as long as the tank is not overstocked with other fish. Most Korans for sale are no more than four inches long. It takes quite some time before the Koran will outgrow this tank. I have had one three years and in that time it only grew about three to four inches.> Is there any other semi large angels that you can recommend?<Outside of the pygmy family, I don't know.> I don't plan on getting a larger tank. Maybe a Genicanthus? I hope to turn it into a semi reef, I already have a coral beauty <Good luck. James (Salty Dog)>

Penalty box for a rambunctious Koran Angel
Hello,
My large juvenile Koran has become so intolerant of new additions, I've had to take him out of my 180 gallon tank and place him in the quarantine tank while I acclimate my newbie. In your opinion, what is an adequate time away from the tank before re-introducing him? The tank is mainly aggressive, and he's been in charge for four years. Thanks for your thoughts.
Steve
<About a week should do it... Bob Fenner> 

Zoanthus/Angels  12/16/05
Hi Crew, <Hello Steven>
Quick question:  I read on Mr. Fenner's article regarding Zoanthus that most living creatures give this <sic> species wide berth with the exception of a particular snail.  I bought a couple of rocks containing Zoanthus polyps on them in hope of adding some color to my FOWLR aquarium.  When I put the Zoanthids in the main display I saw my Chrysurus angel take a few "nips" off of the polyps.  The polyps closed immediately when they were nipped by the angel and every now and then I see him taking a nip.  
In the article by Mr. Fenner he mentioned the toxic nature of the Zoanthus being the reason they are given their space, so my question has two parts.
First:  will my prize angel get sick or poisoned?  Second:  will my newly purchased Zoanthids become a treat for my angel fish?  <Angels are not to be trusted with corals, etc.  Your new zos will more than likely be a treat.  As far as poisoning, I wouldn't worry about that, very unlikely that your angel will become sick.  I've seen Korans plucking the tips off anemones with no ill effects to the fish.  James (Salty Dog)>
Your comments are greatly appreciated. <Thank you>
Best Regards,
Steven