LRFAQ3

FAQs about Live Rock 3

Related Articles: Live Rock, Reef Systems, Refugiums,

Mystery Polyp Hi guys, Thanks for so much help, here's another one for you. I was checking on my fish after the powerhead gave out and noticed that I have some new inhabitants. I found a young brittle star about 1.5 cm across and two which I believe to be polyps. <very cool!> These guys are huge, the one in this picture is about 3 cm across. Any idea what it is? <alas... it is not clear enough from the image. Does not appear to be stony, though. Perhaps anemone in nature> I never bought them, they just kind of popped up today. Thanks, Rene <and you will discover so many more things in time as the rock and sand mature. So many more things are never seen unless you peep at night. Wait several months and then sneak up on the tank with a flashlight filtered through red cellophane. 3-4 hours after the tank has been pitch black... peep with the flashlight and see many wondrous denizens of the night! Enjoy. Anthony>

Rock and Roll (Part II) Thanks Scott, my family used to own a store and yes I am getting the rock right from the shipper when it arrives boxed. Just wondering if these things that are still on the rock after 2 weeks now need to be removed, or if I should leave them be for another week before I add the rock to the tank. <I'd probably leave them alone for another week. Do review a good guide to marine invertebrate/coral life so that you can be sure what you have. If the stuff is stinky and necrotic, then by all means, remove it before you put it in your system!> I have added a few pieces that do not have such life on them, no problems with it, but all the stuff on the pieces I have make me nervous. Thanks again....

White Rock! Dear Bob- (or Anthony...) <Gage Here this morning> I bought Bob's book, and it's wonderful. I love the information and pictures and his autograph! There is one picture of an office with the most beautiful built in aquarium I have ever seen. Question? I noticed over the last two days my live rock are getting a white coating on them, so is the coralline algae? What do you think problem is? I want to correct this before damage is done. Thanks!! Please help and thank you very much!! Ron Widen <Is there a coating on the rock or is the coralline itself turning white. It sounds like your corallines may be bleaching. This is usually caused by low calcium, or a sudden increase in light. What are the calcium and alkalinity readings in your tank? Check out the link below. Best Regards, Gage> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlalgfaqs.htm

Dead Looking Live Rock My name is Ryan and I am a marine biology student at the University of Guelph. <Hi Ryan!> I purchased Fiji liverock from a store that closed down. The liverock was dried out and 90 % off so I couldn't resist. 150 lbs was subject to 4 40watt fluorescents for 18 months and I never had success growing coralline algae. <The rock and any coralline was likely dead. Some live rock and coralline from another system combined with the lighting you had leaning more toward the blue spectrum combined with Kalkwasser and calcium gluconate to supplement calcium to 380-450 and SeaBuffer to maintain alkalinity, or perhaps a calcium reactor would grow coralline. I suspect you had no seed material and dead rock.> 4 months ago I upgraded my leather coral tank to a miscellaneous one (SPS, clams, soft corals, anemones, etc.). I purchased 2 400 watt metal halides (6500 K), 2 55 watt power compacts, and a chiller to complement the fluorescents. I keep alkalinity around 12 dkH and calcium at 450ppm, the temp is 25-26 Celsius and all other water parameters are in order. All the corals are flourishing and my Xenia has paid for itself. Can you help me grow coralline algae? <Yes, get rid of the MH's! They don't contribute to coralline growth. For maximum coralline growth NO, VHO, or PC florescent 50/50 white blue works best. You will find, if there is coralline imported on some of your corals to see your tank, that you will see it grow in areas shaded from the MH's. Also, if Xenia is really cooking, it could be pushed by nutrient that is holding back your coralline growth. Keep wastes low.> Also I'm starting a coral propagation system at the University and would like to know which corals are either endangered or fast growing. Information on getting started would be greatly appreciated. I will use all the resources within my grasp at the University to do everything I can to save the coral reefs. Thank You in advance. Ryan <My best advice here, purchase Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation, version 1.0" at www.readingtrees.com It will be an invaluable reference. Best of luck Ryan! Craig>

Micro-organisms from Live rock I have a very big problem with my tank! I have these white puffy balls all over my live rock, my wet dry, glass, in my skimmer and they seem to be multiplying like crazy!! Just imagine a bright white puffy ball with a white featherduster protruding through the center. <these are Syconoid sponges and are helpful to water quality (filter feeders). Their population is exploding because you have a nutrient export problem in the aquarium. Overfeeding, lack of water changes, lack of a good skimmer (producing dark, daily skimmate), etc). Reduce the nutrients and the sponges will wane too> At first it was not really bad , but now I have these little flea like creatures all over my tank <they are natural plankton. Copepods and/or amphipods... they are also a benefit to the system: food for fishes and invertebrates. They also thrive when there are high nutrients. Do examine your maintenance and feeding habits> About 40 balls and hundreds of fleas which are also white. What do I do? <improve water quality and enjoy all that remain. best regards, Anthony>

Selected Source In your book The Conscientious Marine Aquarist you list The Marine Center as a selected source. I have been considering ordering from them and wonder if you could help me out. I am looking to add live rock to my tank and they sell Marshall Island rock for a fraction of what my local fish store charges. Here are my questions. 1. Is Marshall Island Rock a good choice for a mixed tank? <Yes> 2. Does The Marine center supply quality cured rock? <As far as I'm aware... I would check with BB's/actual users for their input> 3. How can they sell if for so much less the my LFS? <Lower overhead> 4. Would you recommend me putting cured Marshall Island rock from The Marine Center in my tank? <If it suits your purpose/s> >I have always been told you get what you pay for. <This is not a verity> After reading your book and using your web site as a resource I value the opinions of you and your team. I would greatly appreciate your input on this matter. Thank you in advance. <You are welcome. Bob Fenner> Richard Roberts

White "coiled" worms on glass Hey guys, I have a question regarding small, white, coiled worms that are all over my glass and live rock. I have heard that they are common in a new tank and that they should go away on their own. My tank has been up for about five months, (all parameters are good) but these coiled worms are spreading everywhere, I scrape them off the glass, but they are beginning to look very ugly on my live rock. The live rock has very pretty red and purple coralline algae covering most of it, but everywhere else these worms are spreading. Is there anything I can do to get rid of them? Is it possible that the worms could grow over the coralline and eventually cause it to die off? Thank you for your help! Derrick <Not to worry Derrick, they will limit out on their own. They won't cover everything. They are part of your live environment, enjoy the wonder and give your tank time to establish itself. Five months in ocean time is about a billionth of a nano-second. You will find there is really very little horrible stuff to worry about. Craig>

Hard white wormy things Hi Bob and co-fish advisors- I have some strange things appearing on my live rock and they look like white worms. They are calcified and I don't know what they are. At first I thought they were feces from Bob our dwarf angelfish, but it's in both tanks. I have tried scraping this stuff off and it takes the rock with it. Do you know what it is and how I can prevent it from spreading/reoccurring, and do you know how I can get rid of it? <they are harmless/beneficial Vermetid worms or sessile snails (snails that build a worm like tube in place and filter feed). Inevitable in most healthy marine aquaria. There is no reef-safe method of control (all such will harm live rock or other desirables). Simply keep up with scraping them from the front glass. The best way to temper them (at the risk of other wanted filter feeders in the tank) is aggressive filtration and skimming> Thanks to you all, Connie Cavan <best regards, Anthony>

Live Rock & Tiny Air Bubbles Hi Bob, <Steven Pro in this morning.> Two quick questions for you. I just set up a FOWLR aquarium, 200 gallons, I run it with a 100 RLT IWAKI pump. I have noticed what looks to be thousands of very tiny air bubbles that makes the water not look crystal clean (it's been three weeks since set-up so not any detritus on the rocks or aragonite gravel). The flow from the IWAKI is very strong, don't know if this is what's causing it but I didn't want to lower the flow as I was told keep maximum flow. <These microbubbles are generally caused by one of two things. Either the pump is drawing in bubbles from the sump or their is a pin hole leak in your return plumbing that is acting like a venturi. First, I would see if the bubbles are originating from the sump. Excess bubbles from the skimmer or caused by crashing water from the overflows are two main problems. If not, I would check each joint, smearing with Vaseline and see if the bubbles disappear. Once you isolate which joint has the hole, merely clean up and reseal/reglue the joint.> Second question is I bought some nice (lots of coralline algae) live rock and have had it for about two weeks, it seems to be turning slightly white (dead looking in places). I run mini-compact lights for about 6 hours a day. Is there anything I should be doing to encourage the coralline algae growth. <Maintaining calcium and alkalinity levels while minimizing other nutrients is key.> Thanks for your help. Your site is great. Joe Jugovic <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Re: live rock and tiny air bubbles Hi Steven, Thanks for the response. After studying the water a little more last evening it appears to me that there are tiny air bubbles as I said, but probably 95% of what I thought were air bubbles look more like tiny particles, (almost look like dust). In my sump I have some white floss (the pad type). Is there some type of media I should use that would take out these fine, fine particles. <See if you cannot borrow or rent a diatom filter from a friend or LFS. These are highly effective and removing tiny particulate matter.> Thank you very much! <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Live Rock wholesale brokers Hi Bob, As per our conversation, I am looking for a west coast live rock wholesale broker for transshipped live rock. <And as we discussed, I am referring you to my friend Walt Smith as to who in your vicinity (Washington) deals in his products> I am just putting together 600 gallons of holding/curing (200 gallon "big boxes") and have 300 gallons on-line awaiting an aragonite shipment from Fla. for culture. I'm assembling this monster in my basement at the present and will be expanding into two existing commercial greenhouses, that is, unless you talk me out of it and I can make a living diving, writing, editing, or working at this love affair in a more cerebral capacity. <One never knows> Of course I have to keep a few corals and fish as well and have a modest start on 200 gallons of frags, mushrooms, colonial polyps, leathers, some SPS and LPS, etc. and will likely purchase these for both stock and retail sales. This is to be for local Western Washington/Northern Oregon sales perhaps expanding to shipping web/mail/phone orders and hard goods as growth dictates. The core will be the basis of the business, live rock and sand. The concept is to have a better, more established product at a lower or comparable price by specializing and purchasing in volume (and of course more and more over time), so quality and expedient handling are vital. I'm also looking for an equipment wholesaler (skimmers and pumps) to purchase some of my equipment from. I'm sizing skimmers to one to two vats (400 gallons) for maximum flexibility in configuring systems down the line and having multiple skimmers per system (Anthony's influence). Any thoughts, help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Craig <Walt? Bob F>

New live rock; invert id To the wet web media crew, I recently picked up some uncured/base live rock from my LFS. I was expecting white pieces of rock but once I picked it up, it looked magnificent. Plus, it was very cheap, and also teeming with life. The calcareous algae look great. There are a few wanted and unwanted organisms on it. This rock will eventually go into a fish only tank once it is done cycling. As far as the good life goes, aside from algae, there are two different types of feather dusters, black coral polyps, small white/tan starfish (which might be good or not?), an interesting crab, and probably countless others I haven't seen. This crab is of interest to me. It has a "typical" marine crab body shape. If I had to pick a look-a-like, I'd say it has the body shape of an emerald crab. It's main carapace is a deep purple to brown and its legs are white/tan. Its legs, however, are very hairy. It really looks like a tarantula. It does a very good job of hiding all day long. It is currently enclosed in a critter keeper until I can determine its risk to my small fish. I haven't been able to identify it yet. On the ugly side of things, I have a few contenders. Aiptasia are everywhere and I'm slowly eradicating them. There are also a few unidentified things I thought you might know of. I dropped in some very crushed up flake food and all sorts of life came out. One is a small tan worm with lots of legs all around the body. It was only about 2mm long. I'm guessing it is a species of bristle worm. Are these dangerous to a FOWLR tank? <Get the Aiptasia. Leave the worms. He revealed his intention....to eat the extra food you leave around. (that's good!)> Now, this one is the real reason I'm writing this e-mail. Upon return after dropping in the food, I noticed what I thought to be a string about 8-12 inches long. It was maroon and I thought I had dropped it in there on accident. Using a pen cap, I lifted the string and pulled it out of the water. It definitely didn't look like a string at this point. I let it go back in the water and it drew back into the pile of live rock. This thing was pretty freaky. Any idea at all what it could have been attached to on the other end? <A type of spaghetti worm or? Hard to ID w/O a photo, and maybe not then! Don't worry, that's why we buy live rock! Most of these things are completely harmless. And entertaining!> I'm guessing that the unidentified star is harmless to fish only until it reached a big enough size it could be removed. <Yes. Or eats something you like that doesn't move.> If you have any ideas or suggestions, I'd be interested in hearing them. That "tentacle" thing was really weird. Thanks, Dave <Just enjoy the wonder Dave! Craig>

Converting to Live Rock <<Hello, AB!!>> I'm in the process of converting to a live rock system. I have 53 lbs that I cured in large bins. Ammonia and Nitrite are now zero after about 2 weeks, it was pre-cured. Is it okay to add it all at once into tank with inhabitants? <<Should test for some nitrates (from the nitrite) and 0 for amm/nitrite as you have. I would still add cautiously and test for amm. to be sure. Likely will be fine if tested as above.>> Also, I have a 46g tank, do you think this is adequate for an "average" bio-load. I am currently using 2 bio-wheels for bio-filtration. How would you suggest I shut them down? One at a time? How far apart? Thanks, AB <<Ideal is 1-1.5 lbs per gallon. Should be alright. I would run the BioWheels for a while until I was sure the rock was up to the load. Shut off and remove one after a week or two, test, for amm, remove the other after another week and testing is 0 for amm/nitrite. You will get nitrate as the BioWheels produce it. That will stop with the rock. Going slowly is the best plan, no hurries, no worries!!! Craig>>

Adding clean-up critters and LR When should I add clean-up snails and crabs to LS and tank? Then, when do I add LR? <<Add LR first, let tank stabilize, test for zero ammonia/nitrite, presence of low nitrate, do water change and add clean-up as there is food available (algae, detritus, etc.) Low fish load at this time after quarantine. Do a search on stocking and clean-up crews at WWM, much more information there. Have fun, Craig>>

New live rock filaments Hi, Long time listener, first time caller. <<Hi Mark, Thanks! The ratings are up!>> Last weekend I started converting my 55g F/O tank to a fish and live rock tank with 70lbs of live rock that was fully cured, but very full of life. There are all sorts of beautiful and varied macro and coralline algae. It seems to be in great shape (I drove it home from Harbor Aquatics myself and kept it in tubs) and I've seen only an almost imperceptible spike in ammonia which has started to subside already. I moved my four little fish to a separate tank while waiting for the tank to stabilize. I've spent hours and hours observing all of the little critters and growth on the rock but one thing I've noticed is a decent size population of some sort of organism with a very impressive filament. They're not tube worms - I have found a few of those and these are definitely not them. In fact, it's really hard to tell what the organism is because it grows on top of the algae or right on the rock itself. It's very small, sometimes making a lump or mound less than a millimeter high, but the filaments are HUGE. I've seen some that are easily four inches long. They appear to be single stranded with very geometrically spaced branches usually off of a single side (like a feather). The filament shoots out into the water for 5 to 30 seconds and then gets pulled back in. And, they don't appear to be out at all times. When I feed in the morning, they're already out, but my wife says they disappear for most of the day. Then around 4:30 or 5:00 in the evening they start appearing again and stay out 'til lights out. Any idea what they might be? I hope it's nothing to worry about because they're awfully impressive and fun to observe. Thanks. -Mark <<Live rock comes with all kinds of life on it *intentionally* that's why it's "live". Most of them are difficult to identify without a photo, and even at that ID may be difficult or incorrect. Almost all of them, with few exceptions are harmless and enjoyable, even beneficial. You might try :http://www.tcnj.edu/~maughme2/faq.htm http://www.rshimek.com/animal_identifications1.htm and see if you can't ID them here.>> <<Have Fun! Craig>>

Filtration (LR amount in sumps) O.K. I have going over your site but I have not found my answer, so here we go. Is there a certain ratio of liverock per gallon of water in a sump for filtration, <Not really, the more the better.> (for a fish-only tank that I don't want liverock in, just synthetic corals and such) <Perhaps use some base rock and place/attach the synthetic corals to this rockwork. It will look more realistic and serve as additional biological filtration.> and is it best to have livesand and liverock in sump and if so should I keep them separated for sand siphoning or just throw the rock on top of the sand? Thanks again, josh <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Breaking in with Live Rock Dear Bob, I purchased a 29 gal tank, Eclipse 3 hood, and am cycling my tank with a 29 pound Florida keys live rock, which has many sponges, anemones, and corals already living on it. See attached photo. (I also have 30# of live sand in the tank and plan to double the LR after the cycling process). <Very nice> The LR been in my tank for appx. 1 week and some of the sponges/anemones seem to be thriving and some seem to be dying. <Yes... typical. Imagine the changes, chemical, physical, biological... going on in this small volume... some organism (groups even) favored over others, some out competing for space, eating another...> Do I need to feed these creatures while I am cycling the tank? <Not much... there is a likelihood of causing "more trouble than it's worth", even a potential crash/wipeout from overfeeding... you might try small portions of "highly nutritious" flaked foods (Omega Sea, Tetra, HBH...) to "tide them over" until cycling is complete. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm> My ammonia level is high, as is the nitrite level. Should I do small water changes weekly or let the tank cycle completely before beginning water changes. Do I need to clean the detritus out while cycling? <Please read through the above citation and the sections on WetWebMedia.com concerning live rock curing... I would change some water as ammonia and/or nitrite approach dangerous levels (more than 1.0 ppm), pH or alkalinity drops precipitously...> Thanks for your help, Diane Bedard P.S. I have three crabs and a mollusk that came on the rock. they seem to be doing alright. <Some of these animals are very tough indeed. Be chatting, studying, enjoying, Bob Fenner>

Taken from the Sea (LR, sand stars, hermits...) Hi Mr. Steven Pro, Have you been in the Philippines? <No> I've just been on a rocky beach here in the Philippines in Batangas and I took some live rocks. <Insert standard disclaimer: we at WetWebMedia encourage all our readers to follow the local laws, blah, blah, blah...> I would like to know how long would it take to cure my live rocks taken from the sea before I can transfer it to my main tank? <No knowing, when ammonia and nitrite are both zero you are ok.> I took 5 pieces of live rock and it is covered with about 60% purple coralline algae and other life forms. It does not stink but it smells like a rock from the sea (hehe of course that's where it came from). If it does not stink do I still need to cure it? <Yes> Also in its very shallow waters there are numerous numbers of Sand sifting star, they are so many and beautiful and free! I really want to get some for my tank but I don't know if it can live on my bottom gravel since it is not fine sand so I didn't take any for now. Can it live on my bottom gravel even if it is not as fine as the sand what it was used too? What does it eat? <Read here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm following on through the FAQ files.> Will they eat my crocea clams? <No> How many would you recommend for a 75 gallon tank? <No more than one.> On the shore I took some hermit crabs, small ones about ? in. But I don't know if they are reef safe. <Me neither.> Since they are living on the near shore where there aren't any corals I concluded that they would not eat any corals or other invertebrates found in deeper waters. But I could not see these hermit crabs on your crabs site. Only two of them are there and are not reef safe. The rest have black legs with gold spots with red (maybe maroon) antennae and two blue little antennae. Are they reef safe too? <One of Anthony's favorite saying is, "Nothing that lives on a reef is reef-safe. They don't order take out. They all have to eat something. It is just a matter of whether we value what they eat."> With Astreas and other invertebrates (corals, anemone, fishes cleaner and banded coral shrimp)? <All crabs are opportunistic omnivores. They will eat anything they come across that they can eat easily. If food is plentiful, they may leave your snails alone. If you practice good husbandry and do not have nuisance algae and uneaten food everywhere, your crabs will become hungry and resort to other prey items.> Could you identify (from my previous description of its appearance)? <No> When I was looking for live rocks, I saw one which has a beautiful shape and covered with coralline I noticed that there is a small banded coral shrimp there. I wanted to take the rock and the shrimp, but I already have a banded coral shrimp which when I add another shrimp of the same species they may fight. <Agreed> So I just returned it the live rock which was its home back together with the shrimp and just let it be as it was and find another rock. I did not know that these shrimps also live in very shallow waters about only 3 feet deep. I really want to return there and get some additional rocks and some invertebrates. And they are free! <Again, look into the local laws protecting the wildlife before you find yourself in a Pilipino jail.> But lots of quarantine, curing and acclimation, but I don't mind. (I will limit on what I take on the wild since I don't really want to damage anything in it). <Agreed> Thanks, Ken Ryan <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Re: Taken from the Sea (Hermits, the P.I.) So all hermit crabs may not be reef safe unless fed properly? <And even then no guarantees.> Sorry, I forgot to write here that the rocky beach is not really a restricted/conservation area. It is actually like a rock farm. Villagers also take care of these rocks and sell them to different LFS here in the Philippines. There is a small LFS there that sell fishes, corals, invertebrates, and live rock. If you don't want to have the trouble of collecting rocks you can buy it there. But if you want free just get your own for free and they don't mind. LFS owner also told me that they also export marine life to different countries. You guys at WetWebMedia should come here sometime. The Philippines has great reefs in its waters. Very beautiful. Thanks again, Ryan <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Live rock to a new tank Hi, I have my new 125 gallon tank filled with water and was wanting to cycle it with live rock. My question is, should I buy the complete 100-150 lbs all at once to put in? Would this be to much at once if I don't cure it before placing it in? Or would it be better to buy 50 lbs at a time. <Good question... as a general rule of thumb (I'm groaning as well), it is better to "break up" such curing processes in aliquots... halves, thirds... depending mainly on two factors: the size of system, amount of rock... and the perception and reality of how long you have to wait, how much you have to do to cure it enough... Are you patient? If you buy relatively "cured", clean rock... the first approach might take you a few to several months... the latter approach maybe two, three... Better would be to cure as much as you can in a larger, more easily manipulated container (we used to use totes, big Rubbermaid troughs...) so massive water changes, big, BIG skimmers can be employed more easily... and not present such a potentially stinky and not-so pretty sight to significant others (ahem) for so long. Do take a long read through our archived files on LR curing: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm Bob Fenner>

Stuff on my live rock! <<Greetings, JasonC here...>> Well, I guess it isn't really "stuff" on my rock, it looks more like "things" now that I think about it. I noticed two or three or them a couple of weeks ago and now there are about 200 of them. They look like tiny(1-5mm) tubes of cotton that have "featherduster like" openings at the tip. when I look closely I can see that they are hollow in the middle. The rock that they are on have been in the tank for about six months (Since the tank has been up) but none of the others. Any idea of what they are or how to get rid of them? <<Could be any number of things, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of them if I were you. They are most likely an unique type of snail called a Vermetid - they don't move, but do produce strands of mucus which they use to trap 'stuff' and reel it back in for dinner. Pretty much harmless.>> I didn't add any fish or corals around the time I found them, but have been adding rocks. Please share your knowledge and expertise with the rest of the world, and rid my tank of these "things"!!! <<Why should you be rid of them? Most of these items are not only harmless, but also useful in the grand scheme of things - part of the "system" which is coming of age in your tank. I would sit back and enjoy it. Cheers, J -- >>

New Tank & Cured Live Rock I was hoping you could answer a question or two for me. <<Gladly. This is Craig Watson answering for some of the WWM gang while they enjoy the MACNA conference.>> I am in the process of setting up a 125gal FOWLER. Nothing but sand and live rock right now. Main tank has about 5" DSB. Also a 40gal refugium with only sand right now, 25gal sump with Berlin Turbo skimmer and some mechanical filtration (a bonded filter sleeve on an eggcrate shelf), 500 Watts of CF( six bulbs are 8800k and two are actinic blues). They are on 12 hours a day. I just added 200lbs of the "Home Depot" sand A.K.A. Southdown sand, last week. I skimmed off all of the foamy crud that floated up to the top and waited a week while the rest was skimmed out or settled to the bottom. I then added the first 30lbs of live rock that I have had curing in a tub for a few months. That cleared the water up even more. There is now a dark brown algae that is slowly covering the sand bed. It has tons of tiny bubbles holding onto it and the bubbles will even pick some of this brown stuff up and float it around the tank. Do you know what it may be or what I should do about it? I tried siphoning it off but it came back. Is this part of the process? Should I consider leaving the lights off for a while? Would this be a good time to add some sort of an algae eater? If so-what would you recommend? <<Thank you for writing Dennis, This is brown diatoms, part of the process I'm afraid. Are you using RO or DI water? The diatoms will cycle and as the needed nutrients are consumed it will fade away. This can be fueled however by nutrients in your source water. You indicate this hasn't been a problem before, I trust this was the same water? If so this will pass, don't worry too much my friend! I suspect some of it is fueled by the sterile sand as well. This will all improve over time with the live rock seeding necessary bacteria and won't harm anything. Surface skimming will remove the stuff that floats or if there is also a scum on the surface. If you don't have the surface skimmer (skimmer box) then a plain, unscented paper towel will usually soak it up. You can vacuum the diatoms, but you will lose sand and it will regrow until the nutrient is exhausted, so patience is really best. And clean source water and controlled feeding which doesn't apply here. It usually goes away (temporarily) when the lights go off, but my idea would be to purposely grow it with whatever nutrient is in there now and exhaust it, so I would leave the lights on. Probably best to not run the skimmer or filtration except to remove surface scum and let your tank mature past it. Tough spot, diatoms and new substrate with a little rock. You want the tank bacteria to mature and multiply and you want the ugly diatoms gone. In time my friend!>> Also- I just ordered another box of Fiji pre-cured rock from FFE. After I clean off and rinse the rock, I was planning on the regular curing process in a tub. Should I leave it in the tub and let all the dead stuff decompose there or now that I have the main tank set up, add the rock to the main tank after the majority of the dead stuff has decomposed and let the nitrates build up a bit? I am thinking that adding it to the main tank may help with building up bacteria but it will also mean more work for me( bigger water changes). Would this help in getting the DSB going? Just looking for your experienced opinions. <<I would cure it in the tub and introduce it to the tank after it's "cured". You want to reduce the amount of waste the rock cures in, so regular water changes and removing the dead material is a necessity. A smaller tub makes this easier and less costly. The tank should be on it's way to being established by the time the rock is ready. If you are thinking of bumping your system, adding some rock water would be a more controlled way of doing it and you wouldn't need the big water changes. Sounds like a lot of fun! Enjoy. Craig>>

Unidentified Tentacles Hi Bob- <Steven Pro in this morning.> My reef tank has been up and going for four months now. Everything looks like it's doing well, although I have had to kill three Aiptasia (with Kalkwasser injection), including two recently. <It happens.> I was warned and have tried to keep a careful lookout for them. My question is this, lately I can see two or three or four long thin tentacles coming up from the live rock under one of my corals. These tentacles look like strands of a web - they're not even as thick as a cleaner shrimp's antenna, and seem to be a clearish color with dark thin stripes, as best I can tell. They can extend to at least 4 inches long, and as they wave around in the water (it does seem like they control their movement to some degree) they may be stinging the coral above them - the xenia-like polyps seem disturbed and curl up somewhat after contact, but I can't see any measurable damage. When I moved the coral and tried to figure out what I was dealing with and where it was coming from, the tentacles retreated into or below the rock. <It sounds like a spaghetti worm to me. I would work your way through Dr. Shimek's Dichotomous Key to be sure, http://www.rshimek.com/Invertebrate%20Key%20to%20Major%20Taxa.htm> I'm concerned that this could be another Aiptasia, <Not likely> although I've never seen Aiptasia extend tentacles like that, or maybe something else harmful. <Actually, most liverock hitchhikers are harmless to beneficial. There are a few exceptions like the Aiptasia, but by in large most you find are fine.> I'd really rather not start pulling my tank apart to figure it out or kill it if I don't have to. Any ideas? <See above.> Thanks, Bob, and please hit Reply All if possible. Brad <No problem. -Steven Pro>

White Growth on Live Rock Hi Bob <<Actually, JasonC today - Bob is away diving, producing more photos for the site.>> Thanks for all the great information on the web site, I am fairly new to the 'sport' and its been a great help. I have a question for you about my live rock. I have a 30 gallon tank with about 30lbs live rock and 25lbs live sand, a maroon clown and ~5 blue legged hermits and a turbo snail. The tank has been up about 2 months and the clown has only been recently introduced. I have just set up a protein skimmer which is producing some foam, although not a huge amount, which I gather is normal for a fairly new tank. <<Or normal for the skimmer, depending on the brand. But sure, no worries.>> In the last few days I have started to get a white growth (or maybe deposit) on one particular piece of live rock. This is definitely spreading/increasing daily and appears to be destroying anything that is in its path. It does not appear to have moved over to any of the other pieces of rock in the tank, but I guess it is only a matter of time and I am concerned as I have some nice growth on the other pieces of rock in the tank and the stark white color of this new intruder ruins the look of the live rock. <<If I were to just hazard a guess, I'd say that this is either coralline bleaching out or die-off of growth already on the rock. Neither one is uncommon in a new system. You will find these things strike a balance over time. I wouldn't be overly concerned.>> My water parameters are ok, although the water is a little hard (KH of about 12), 0 ammonia and nitrates/trites. The pH has been around 8.4 but seems to have dropped to 8.0 in the last 3-4 days (since the last test). <<Do work on getting that back into range. Also do try to avoid the temptation of saying "my water is ok", because by your own admission, it is not. A pH of 8.0 is low and needs to be addressed.>> I have started using a pH buffer to return the pH to 8.3. <<Ah good.>> Am I seeing some kind of precipitation of a calcium compound (if so, why onto just the one piece of rock so far?) or is this some kind of micro-algae? <<This is not calcium precipitation - that usually clouds the whole tank and looks like it is snowing.>> What can I do to correct this? <<Work on the water quality first, then be patient - I really think this will work itself out.>> Thanks in advance, Ian O'Dwyer <<Cheers, J -- >>

Using Live Rock in place of BioBalls Dear WWM Guys, I have a 1.5 year old 115 gallon saltwater tank with 3.5 to 4 inches of aragonite sand, live rock, hard and soft corals, Tridacna clams, and several fish (1 Yellow Tang, 1 Pseudochromis, 1 damsel, 2 Pyjama Cardinals, and 1 Banggai Cardinal). Lighting is supplied by four (4) 96W power compacts from CustomSeaLife; Two (2) 10000K Super Daylights and two (2) Super Actinics with the Super Daylights on for 10 hours and the Super Actinic on for 12 hours. Filtration involves a 45 gallon sump that contains a chamber holding bioballs, which is separated from a section of the sump that contains a Aqua-C EV-150 protein skimmer. The tank has an overflow box built into the back of the tank, which feeds the water onto a tray with holes that sits over the section of the sump holding the bioballs. From there the water flows through a gap at the bottom of a plastic divider into the section that contains the protein skimmer, and then the water is pumped back into the tank. I also have a Korallin Kalkreactor that drips into the sump, with drips landing above the protein skimmer pump intake so that the effluent goes through the skimmer first before entering going into the tank. <Have you ever noticed any precipitation in your skimmer or the pump?> The effluent has a Ca reading of 480 ppm, an alkalinity of 48 dKH, and pH of 6.6. Just in the last couple of months, I have changed from using as replacement for evaporated water Seachem Reef Builder added to distilled water mix to Kent Marine Kalkwasser added to the distilled water; I add the Kalkwasser a day before using the distilled water to insure that it is mixed and dissolved. <All sounds fine except for maybe the bioballs and distilled water. You may not need the bioballs if you have enough liverock, for a ballpark anything of 90 pounds of Pacific origin rock. Also, I am very particular only to use purified water, so I commend you on the same, but distilled always scares me due to the possibility of metal contamination.> My problem is I have had in the last several months is an algae bloom on the rock and sand which I am having trouble eliminating. The algae is becoming so bad that it is starting to cover my hard corals. <That is bad.> The fish and soft corals are doing well, with new mushroom corals starting to sprout up around the single one I started with. I have checked my water parameters and my nitrates are less than 5 ppm, with oxygen levels at saturation, alkalinity at 12 dKH and pH at 8.4. Phosphate, per my Salifert test kit, is reading zero and I empty the protein skimmer cup every two days. <All good.> I also installed new power compacts in December 2001. <Getting a little old, but should be fine for another couple of months.> I feed the fish three times a week and change 10 to 15 gallons of water every week. <Good> My local pet store suggested that I pull the bioballs as they are supplying the excess nutrient that the algae are using, as they are acting as detritus traps and nitrate factories. <Possible> If this is correct, what should I replace the bioballs with? <Probably no need to "replace" them with anything. Slowly remove them, 25% per week, and allow your liverock to take over the biological filtration.> I was wondering if placed live rocks where the bioballs are would that be a step in the right direction or would I soon be back to where I was with the bioballs. <Probably not needed unless you could turn this compartment into a refugium.> Or am I missing something that the algae is picking up? <Everything sounded ok, except for the two I mentioned above. I would slowly remove the bioballs and switch to RO or DI water and see if that does not make a difference.> Any advice you could supply would be very appreciated. Regards, Kevin <Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Re: Using Live Rock in place of BioBalls Steven, Thank you for answering my questions so quickly! I will take your advice and remove 25% of the bioballs this weekend and siphon out the algae when I do the water changes. <Good> I would like to turn the section into a refugium, but it would have to be one that can withstand tank water showering down and be in the dark or low light. <As long as any liverock can be submerged, I am happy with this setup. There are many different types of refugiums, although far too many people associate lights and Caulerpa with refugiums. A cryptic (dark) zone can be just as interesting and beneficial with sponge growth.> This shower of tank water plus the protein skimmer is probably the reason for the high tank oxygen level. <Possible, but good circulation helps, too.> As for your question regarding the formation of a precipitate in the skimmer or the pump (I assume you mean the skimmer pump) <Correct> I have not noticed any when I clean the skimmer weekly, but the skimmer mixing chamber is dark, so it would be hard to see if any precipitate is forming. The pump outside is clean (it is submerged about 2 inches beneath the sump water surface), but I will check the impeller to see if anything buildup is occurring. <My question was out of curiosity mostly. I had an idea to drive off excess CO2 from a calcium reactor for heavy aeration, much like you are doing. I was concerned though because the calcium carbonate in the effluent water is saturated at a low pH and possibly rapidly raising the pH by vigorous aeration and removing the CO2, could force the calcium carbonate to drop back out of solution. Keep us posted on your work.> You indicated that distilled water may contain metals; what would be the source of this? <The big metal machinery they use to process distilled water (boiling, collecting steam, etc.).> The distilled water I use is either Sparkletts or Arrowhead distilled water. Would the source be from the containers they collect the steam distilled water? <That and many of the other processes involved.> Once again, thank you for the advice! By the way, are there any new books out that are worth looking into regarding reef tanks? Kevin <Bob, Anthony, and myself are currently working on a three volume set. The series will be called "The Natural Marine Aquarium" with the first volume titled "Reef Invertebrates". This will be for both FOWLR and reef tanks and focus on all inverts other than corals. A fish and coral book are planned to follow. -Steven Pro>

Dead Live Rock? <<Greetings, JasonC here...>> And Doctor can you revive it? <<You mean like Dr. Frankenstein?>> Having just recently discovered the site, as well as ff express, I begin to question the Live Rock in my tank and what is being sold at my pet store. <<Oh?>> It looks nothing like what I've seen at ffexpress. Should it? <<Uhh... well, do any two rocks that you pick off the ground look the same? Highly unlikely. The colors, shapes, and fauna can vary significantly depending on the region the rock is collected from.>> or is a steady dose of chemicals, lighting required to revive it. <<No chemicals, just lighting... if in fact it was live in the first place.>> And back to the subject question, Is there such a thing as dead live rock and need to be replaced? <<Well, one can certainly wipe out all the "live" stuff in/on live rock, which would make it dead rock. You can usually rejuvenate the dead material by adding more live material... would take a month or so.>> My next course of action, after posting to you last week, was to properly increase the levels of live rock in my tank. The rock that I have, as well what is sold locally is lacking in color. Will it come back? <<You mean the pink Coralline Algae? Yes it should in time, provided a sufficient source of calcium.>> thanks, Dave <<Cheers, J -- >>

New Marine Aquarist Hi, Thanks for the SITE, INFO AND TIME. I will try to be short. Am new in this hobby . I did some thing wrong the other day .What I have done is : I have added LR week ago and I forgot to condition my tank with Anti-Chlorine so every thing died. What should I do? the water is dark. What am doing is water changes. I did add the Anti-Chlorine. <my friend... the lack of dechlorinator did not kill your live creatures and really is not much of a problem or oversight (chlorine can easily dissipate in an aquarium without using an "anti-chlorine" additive). Your situation is more likely that you received fresh live rock and did not know or were not instructed on how to properly "cure" it (which means to condition the live rock for 2-3 weeks in a bare bottomed aquarium with no light, very strong water flow, very aggressive protein skimming and almost daily water changes). Before you buy any more live creatures, please invest in a good marine book for beginners. I would suggest "New Marine Aquarium" by Mike Paletta and "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner. The investment in buying and reading these books will help you to greatly enjoy your hobby and will save many creatures lives in your care. For now, continue to do water changes as necessary. If you have a skimmer, adjust it so that it produces dark daily skimmate... if not, BUY a good brand of protein skimmer as soon as possible. Best regards, Anthony>

Response to odd white pattern on live rock Hello Crew; <<And hello to you. JasonC here at your service...>> This is not a question, but another confirmation on a previous post in marine snails 2. <<Fair enough.>> The title of the post was "odd white pattern on live rock" I have the same pattern...white squiggly lines that under magnification, look like they are made up of tiny bubbles. The only difference...mine are on the glass inside the tank. I have 10 Cerith snails that hang out on the glass a lot and I noticed the snails producing these lines. I suspect that they are Cerith snail eggs, just as SushiGirl suggested. <<And that is the most likely explanation. Cerith snails are known to lay their eggs in geometric patterns.>> Thanks for your time; Kevin <<Cheers, J -- >>

Bringing Dead Rock Back To Live Bob, Hope all is well. I was given about 50 lbs. of dead, live rock that's been sitting in a coworkers garage for a few months. <Please make sure your coworker has never treated his tank or this rock with any copper based medications.> My plan is to place a piece of dead rock into my 55 gallon reef aquarium that has 100 lbs of great looking life rock and pull an established piece of live rock and move it to a large FOWLR tank until I bring the dead rock back to life. Any tips? <Make sure you soak the dead rock first to liberate anything that has dried out and died deep inside the pores of the rock.> EX. should I soak or rinse the dead rock first? <Definitely soak the rock.> How long should I wait before repeating this process. <Until the dead rock appears good to you.> How much will my ammonia spike if on average each rock is 7 lbs? <You want to soak the rock first to ensure that your ammonia will never peak at all.> Thanks in advance. -Pat <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Awesome Live Rock G'day from Australia, hello guys <cheers, mate!> I would like to thank you people for all the info I have gotten off your website in the last few months (I'm new to salt water) anyway I have a little (large) problem. today I bought 2 boxes (about 60lb) of live rock for my 100g tank. my problem is that when I got the rock home I found that there is a large amount of coral or the rocks (almost every piece has some sort of brainish coral on it). <the photograph shows some outstanding live rock!!! We would pay handsomely for it if we could be blessed to receive such rock here in the US. But I see your dilemma> the main problem I have is that I was only going to have a FOWLR. That means no corals :). but now I see I have no real choice (as the shop I got it from is over 2 hours drive away) --- I was hoping you guys might be able to identify these stowaways and give me some idea on what to feed them -- I'm told the rock came from the great barrier reef, Queensland--- picture is supplied thanks for all the past and present help. Clint <your problem may be none at all my friend. The stony corals on your rock are Mussids... Likely Lobophyllia (many common names). They are very hardy corals that do not need very bright light, are fairly tolerant of high nutrients and feed heavily on particulate matter which all makes them perfect for a tank with big fishes or a heavy load. I won't be surprised if you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak! Send a list of your desired fishes and we'll help you tweak it so that you can keep the fishes and corals in balance. Lighting for these corals should be moderate. Many possibilities here but 4 VHO fluorescent lamps would do the trick nicely (4 50/50 lamps OR 3 daylight and one blue actinic for cool effect... many Lobos fluoresce bright under blue actinic). Best regards, Anthony>

Re: Awesome Live Rock G'day from Australia (again) Gee I never have thought that live rock could be such a hassle, I'm the "poor soul" that got corals all over his live rock. <some of the finest we have seen <G>> well now I have the problem that my only fishy tank mate seems to have a disease. I have a tomato clown and he was been fine for weeks but after I added my coral-live rock he got a few white spots on his fins and body. He is still feeding and swimming around as normal. Some of the coral I told you about last week is dying - flesh was falling off one piece <do siphon out as necessary, do water changes and monitor ammonia levels in tank. Your skimmer(s) should also be doted on daily... maximize their production!> and then I found 2x6" bristle stars "attacking" it. <simply scavenging> well I removed the stars but I think that coral is now a dead one. <again... just siphon... it may recover after months> What I want to know is - is the stress of adding life rock and the dying coral be causing my clown to stress too much leading to disease? <yes... but usually that is not the case. I'm assuming that you fully cured the live rock in a separate aquarium for 2 or more weeks before adding it to the tank. It is dangerous to add fresh rock directly to any tank for fear of such decay from the curing process (fouls the water terribly and can wipe out some tanks) and there is also great risk of bringing in a pest, predator or disease. This underscores the rule in the aquarium hobby that few people are told or heed: ALL livestock must be quarantined in a separate hospital tank for 2-4 weeks (4 is best) before adding to a display. That means everything... fishes, snails, live rock, live sand, plants.. everything. As wild harvested products, the chance of disease or a pest is always high. Adding livestock not quarantined to a full display is a game of Russian roulette with the other creatures lives every time a new piece is added. Scary... yes. But on the other side of the coin... hobbyists that do learn to QT all new critters have tremendous trouble free success for years upon years in their tanks. I'm guessing that your LFS did not emphasize this to you. Hmm... in not doing so, I suppose they are hoping your keep replacing sick and dying animals <G>> and should I remove this coral and scrub all the flesh out of it? <just siphoning will be fine as long as the ammonia doesn't rise, if so... removing the rock for a dedicated cure in a separate tank may be necessary> -in the last email you said that it might be a Lobophyllia of sorts thanks a lot for any help <quite welcome> Clint p.s. the other corals look be fine and I feed them little pieces of scallop roe (good plan??) <that sounds like a fine food item, but please do offer a variety of foods for long term success! Best regards, Anthony>

Re: live rock and cloudy water Hi! I removed all the live rock from my main tank and put it in smaller tank to cure. My problem is, I did a 40% water change yesterday, and a 25% one today and my water is still green and cloudy. The water changes did seem to help slightly but the water still looks bad. It kind of seems all I'm doing is just diluting the green water. <That is what a water change is, a dilution.> I'm also using an AquaClear 150 skimmer along with my wet dry filtration. Is there anything else I can do so that I can see my fish again? <Make your skimmer work like crazy, more water changes, and use activated carbon.> I wish I never put the live rock in my tank without curing it again first. Thanks for your help. Derrick <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Amazing Poly Filters and Coppered Live rock! Anthony, thanks for the help. Is PolyFilter a brand name or product name? <it is an amazing product "Poly Filter" from Poly-Bio Marine. I swear that I am not a spokesperson or have ever even received a free sample! Its just a great product. It is a pad that acts as a chemical adsorptive media (replaces or compliments carbon). The cool thing is that it changes colors to indicate the contaminants that it picks up: blue for copper, yellow for ammonia, orange for rust, or simply brown for general organics> Some of the live rock had been in the tank during a copper treatment but even directly after that I didn't have any problems with snails and such. <whoa, bud! That's because the carbonate material did not immediately dissolve and liberate copper. There IS local copper contamination in you water that may not show up on a test kit but will kill invertebrates in the microclimate. All carbonate live rock and sand dissolves slowly in time. 100 lbs of live rock put in a reef tank weighs say 80 lbs 5 years later when the tank is torn down. Carbonate bound copper is slowly being liberated. If you didn't know it before, NO medication should ever be dosed in a display tank. Quarantine tanks and fallow periods take care of sick fish and infected systems> In replacing live rock can over-nighted rock be added directly to the tank? <absolutely not, my friend. Air-shipped live rock needs to be cured. 7-10 days despite shameful claims by many of "cured" live rock. When the rock arrives in the same narrow cardboard boxes that it was shipped out of Fiji in... rest assured, that rock hasn't seen water for over a week> I am thinking about changing it out anyways for much larger pieces. I have a copper test kit and will give it a go and get back to you. <no worries... and don't expect to see much copper free in the water... this is a matter of chemical adsorption... not free ions> Thanks again. <best regards, Anthony>

What was THAT?? Hi WWM friends. Today as I walked by my FOWLR tank I happened to catch a glimpse of something being ejected OUT of my live rock. It was wispy, very much like cigarette smoke. It came squirting out and dissipated into the water. Any ideas?? <yep> Somebody in there spawning maybe? <possible... but not likely> It was freaky. Hope it doesn't hurt the tank. Wes <no worries... there are many burrowing organisms in live rock: boring clams, urchins and more. Somebody was simply mining a bigger or better home. Enjoy the diversity>

Live rock and cloudy water Bob, I need some help! I added 45 lbs of "cured" Fiji live rock to my 90 gallon tank. Despite everything I have read about curing the rock again before putting it in the main tank I put it in there anyway. <Ok> My water is extremely cloudy and I am worried that it may harm my fish. <You should be.> I currently have 3 damsels, 2 Clark clowns, LT anemone, 25 turbo snails, and an orange starfish. What can I do to fix my problem? <Water changes, monitor water quality, skim hard, etc.> Thanks for your help, Derrick P.S. I did a 20% water change today, didn't seem to help. Water Temp= 79 Ph= 8.2 Salinity=1.024 Ammonia was 0 but seems to be climbing <Sincerely, Steven Pro>

Copper and coral again I may be crazy, but I thought I was told that if I used CopperSafe in my tank that it was free floating and would NOT absorb into my rock and crushed coral. <that is complete crap... whoever told you that was ignorant indeed (as in not-knowing, although I wonder about some of the turnips at LFS I have met)> Although it would explain why I can't seem to get inverts to do very well in the tank. Tell me I am not crazy and that what I heard was right....I hate to think of trashing 110 lbs. of coral and a ton of my rock. thanks Robert <sorry, bub... but medication of any kind should NEVER be used in a display tank. That's what quarantine tanks are for, my friend. a proper QT is 4 weeks and the display tank unmedicated runs fallow without a host for the pathogen in the interim. Your rock is "poisoned" by copper. Still not to be wasted... you have choices, The rock can be used in fish tanks or any aquaria where inverts cannot crawl across the stained media. Or... you can use a bunch of poly-filters for months to slowly pick up liberated copper and resist buying any more snails, anemones, corals etc for many months until it all clears up. The rock is still biologically quite useful. best regards, Anthony>

New LR? We got some new LR for our - tank - and about 2 hours after putting it in - I have seen 2 of these little "bugs" <<uh oh... are they small or large bugs?>> They are tiny - and almost look like they have "boxing gloves" on (my fianc?describing it) it looks like it's "hands" are bigger. <<could be a couple of things... you might want to read these pages and see if you can identify them here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/stomatopods/mantisshrimp.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/shrimp/shrimp.htm >> We noticed the first on pressed against the glass between some sand - looks like it was trying to burrow it's way out - we may have buried it when moving sand around? <<sounds quite possible.>> Anyhow - when it moves - it almost looks like it flips around, or rolls around. <<hmm, there are a couple of crustaceans that move like this... mantis shrimp is what comes to mind, but do check those pages... is hard for me to make the id from the description.>> Any ideas? Good? Bad? Let me know ASAP.. <<Again, check those URLs... pictures, etc there to help ID. Whether is good or bad will depend on your desire to keep these things. Mantis shrimp for example are dreaded by many, and very welcome by others - make a fascinating and undemanding pet.>> Thanks ~Bill <<Cheers, J -- >>

Re: new LR? I have actually looked all over your site - and couldn't find a picture that looked like it. It was tiny, about the size of a pin head. I did see a link on your site about something called a Rollie-Pollie - what is that... that would almost describe how the thing moved. We have not seen them lately (since that night.) ~Bill

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