Cleaning Live Now Dead Rock 12/11/07
Hello...
<Hi Chris>
I recently received about 50 pounds of live rock that has been out of water for 3-5 months. Would it be ok to clean and add in small amounts to an established tank with live rock and live sand without any problems?
<Yes, but do scrub the rock with a stiff bristle brush under running water to remove any dead matter. Let dry and smell it the following day. If no foul smell is detected, it should be safe to put in your tank.>
Thanks
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Chris

New Live Rock 12/5/07
Hello all, as usual love your site.
<Hello DJ, thank you.>
I have a small problem with my 125 gallon FOWLR tank. I have had high nitrates for awhile, and have been planning and buying pieces to make a sump in the nearest possible future, but its a work in progress.
<OK, always fun to do it your self.>
Well I recently came across a good deal on some Tonga Fusion Live Rock from a guy here in town ( Phoenix ) and he had said it was cured. There was very little dead material on it, and it didn’t smell too bad save for one piece, but I put it all in anyways. I did a water test, and everything was fine save for my normal high nitrates. Well it has been about a week now and I did a 20 gallon water change last night and now my nitrites have spiked up to .025 and they normally ride at zero. I checked the nitrates, which are the same as they were ( red color, very bad, I know that’s what the sump will be for with algae and a DSB ) and the ammonia is at zero as well. Could this small spike in Nitrites be from the new rock??
<Yes, even if it was truly cured you can experience die off from moving or orienting the rock in a different sort under different tank conditions.>
If so should I worry? What else can I do to safeguard against anything bad happening? I have my eyes on two new fish and will not even consider putting them in if everything is or is about to go completely out of whack...
<I wouldn’t either until water parameters are good. >
I also have recently set up a QT tank, and I have one teeny tiny piece of LR in it. I used water from the water change in the big tank (pre nitrate issue) to get it going along with some new water. The ammonia is a little high though as I think it still needs to cycle a bit. If the level in my main tank continue to rise, should I pull the new LR and put it in the QT tank until that tank cycles and then add it back into the main tank slowly when and if the levels there return to normal??
<I would.>
As always any insight you can give will be much appreciated
I can’t wait to hear your opinion, and as usual thanks a million!
Douglas M. Payne Jr. (DJ)
<Welcome, best, Scott V.>

Live Rock Trouble, Stagnant Water – 12/5/07
Hi,
<Hello, Brenda here>
I just recently (3 days ago) began my hobby with a 56 gallon salt water tank purchase.
<Welcome to the addiction!>
I bought 55 pounds of live rock and 40 pounds live sand from my LFS.
They didn't give me much information about setting up the tank, and I'm beginning to think I made several big mistakes already. The rock was transported from the store in an open Styrofoam box, it was moist but it stayed in the car about an hour before making it to my apartment.
<This is normal for transporting Live Rock.>
I mixed the water with salt in a 5 gallon bucket and filled the tank about 3/4 of the way up. Let it sit about 15 minutes, then tested the salinity. I added all the live sand, waited 15 minutes then added all my live rock. I used tap water to fill up the tank. Does RO water make a big difference?
<For live rock, at a minimum it needs to be dechlorinated.>
I put a heater in the tank and set it to 78, and I kept a T5 light on it about 8 hours at a time for the past 3 days.
<No need for light yet in this stage of the game.>
I just realized that I needed a powerhead so I just bought a Rio 800 which cycles at about 200gph; the water was just stagnant for 2 days.
<Ouch!>
Is my live rock/tank in serious trouble already?
<No, you are not in serious trouble yet, unless you did not dechlorinate the water. Using chlorinated water, you will likely have “dead” rock, which can become live again, over time, and with the addition of some Live Rock. If using dechlorinated water, you will likely have some additional die off, but not necessarily a complete die off. You do need to have water moving at all times. I would do a large water change. Let the live rock cure for at least a month, while doing regular water changes. Test your water parameters regularly with a reliable test kit. I would also get into the habit of premixing your saltwater for at least 24 hours, and keeping extra premixed saltwater on hand at all times. Here are some links to help you better understand Live Rock: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liverock1.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i3/Live_Rock/live_rock.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm >
Thank you for your help.
<You’re welcome!>
I'm a true beginner.
<We’ve all been there! Here is an additional link that you may find beneficial: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm Get in the habit of researching everything before you act. If you run into a road block, we will be here to assist. Good luck with your new adventure! Brenda>

Fish behavior... scrubbed LR, missing Clown   6/23/07
Good morning from Boston!
<Hail in return from not yet sunny Southern Cal.>
I hope this finds you all well and in good health. Thank you so much for your wonderful website and unending support for all of us still on the learning curve of this hobby. Your insight is priceless. Thank you!
<Welcome!>
I have a question that doesn't seem to have been asked before. I am in the middle of battling a raging attack of hair algae. I have discovered the most likely source of fuel to be phosphates in my tap water. Alas, a Kold Ster-il unit is on the way, along with their alumina media. I have added Chemi-pure to my Eheim canister filter, and am upping my water change routine to weekly rather than every other week. Hopefully I can win this battle because it is getting very old and very tiring!!
<And us!>
Part of my battle plan was to remove the liverock and scrub the algae off with a toothbrush. I just could NOT stand to look at it anymore! I scrubbed the rock in a separate bucket with aged and circulated salt water, then returned it to the tank. I did not perform a water change, as I wanted the "dust" to settle for a day or two before changing the water.
<Mmmm>
This is a 55 gallon tank that is a year old now. I have two false ocellaris clowns, a velvet wrasse, and a springeri Pseudochromis, along with two cleaner shrimp, one peppermint shrimp (attack of Aiptasia), and a handful of various small snails and crabs. The fish are happy and healthy, and have been in this tank for eight months. So here is my dilemma: The morning after cleaning the liverock, the springeri Pseudochromis and one of the clowns (the bigger of the two) are nowhere to be found! Poof - just disappeared! I'm willing to bet that the Pseudochromis is, and will remain in hiding for a few days. That would not surprise me. But I am very surprised that the clown is missing.
<Me too>
He is a big, goofy, social and playful clown.......always with his mate. I just can't imagine that he is hiding, and it certainly doesn't sound like normal behavior. Granted, I do realize how much stress I've created by disrupting their home by my cleaning session, but I really didn't think I had much choice. Do you have any thoughts on the missing fish?
<Hopefully will show, is in hiding as well... but may have "jumped out"... be on the floor, consumed by another pet... Or died and quickly shrimp-consumed, otherwise dissolved...>
More so with the clown, as I think (rather desperately hope) that the Pseudochromis will come out of hiding in the next couple of days.
Any thoughts/advise you have is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,
Kim in Boston
PS...........the wrasse and the other clown are their usual selves, as if nothing had ever happened.
<Mmm, I do hope that she (the larger fish is the female of these two) shows. Bob Fenner>

Impatient Cycling Causes Fish Deaths  5/10/07
Greetings from Manila, Jason here.  Hope you guys are doing good as usual! :)
<Hi Jason, This is Jeni/Pufferpunk here today & I'm doing great, thanks for asking!>
4 months ago, I had some fresh live rock from the ocean, transported it back and placed it into my 30 gallon tank.  
<Lucky you!  We pay up to $9/lb for nice rock here.>
I only have the small powerhead, no filtration, no skimmer.  Tank temps ranged from 79F to
83F.  
<83 is a bit high.  I'd aim for no higher than 80-81.  We're having a heat wave here & I have 4 fans on my tank, trying to keep the water below 82.>
I thought the fresh live rock might not go thru a cycle process because I transported it myself and was submerged in ocean water for several hours.  
<Any exposure to air will kill off some of the life & start a cycle.>
My mistake was I did not use any aeration during transport.
2 days later, lots of die off.  Everything died, worms, crabs, sponges, except for the coralline algae.
<To be expected.>
After week 3, my water was now pretty clear because of the algae growth and ammonia and nitrates were heading low.  My readings were: Ammonnia-5mg/L, Nitrates-5mg/L, pH 7.6.
<Actually, still quite toxic.>
Is there anything else I should really check for?  I don't know why my pH was
acidic.
<You are testing for the correct things.  Ammonia, caused by die-off will cause the water to become acidic.>
Anyway, at week 3, I decided to do a 80 percent water change to take care of the nutrient export and then get a baby Scopas tang and a couple Turbos.  
<Did you test the water beforehand?>
After a week, the tang died.  It started off swimming/nipping/eating for the 1st two days.  Then it got spooked out all the time and towards the end, would always be hiding in the rocks and never came out.   I checked my Ammonia went back up to 5mg and nitrates back to 5mg.  
<Quite deadly--tank was not cycled.>
I did another 80 percent water change and introduced another tang.  
<Without testing the water?>
He did the same behavior but died after 2 days.  I checked the water properties, nitrates were at 40mg/L!  It increased to 40mg after I introduced the new tang.  
<Why do you keep putting these animals lives at risk?  You cannot introduce animals to a tank that shows even the smallest amount of ammonia/nitrites & nitrates should be below 20 for fish.>
The first tang 2 days before it died started to develop an ulceration around it's eye and also its color started to get dark, with small white spots (but it didn't look like ich).
<Ulceration probably caused by ammonia burn.>
I thought it might have been HLLE, so I checked the water: ammonia, nitrates, pH.  
<What were the results?>
I also unplugged the lights, fan and used a different pump.  But then the next tang died too. :(  What could have happened here?  Are my rocks not cured enough to support even one fish?  
<There is no such thing as "cured enough".  Either the rock is fully cured or it isn't.>
Should I remove my 3 Turbos, which are happily munching away?  
<There is nothing nastier than a dead snail in your tank.>
What do I do moving forward, do I still continue to do water changes?
<Suggested reading: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i3/Live_Rock/live_rock.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm  
Please do not add any more livestock until your rock is fully cured.  ~PP>
Jason

How Hot is Too Hot for Live Rock 4/26/07
Hi guys :)  Jason here, warm greetings from Manila!
<Greetings, GrahamT with you tonight.>
I've read on your FAQs about varying ideal temperatures for reef tanks containing corals, anywhere from 77F to 80F ideal.  
<Yep.>
Why can't people come to an agreement? :)  
<Huh? I agree with that. What is the argument?>
If my tank is starting off as FOWLR, what is the ideal range?  
<Umm, 77F to 80F...? Is this a trick question?>
My guess is from 80F to 83F.  
<You don't have to guess, the info is available here and elsewhere. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/temp_faqs.htm >
I will be moving my tank to a room where the ambient temperature is much higher.  Can my FOWLR tank do ok at 87F or is this just way to hot?
<I wouldn't do it, unless you invest in a chiller.>
I've got two cheapo floating thermometers in my tank, one says 78F, the other 81F :)  What kind of thermometers do you suggest for keeping accurate temps?
<Digital. You can buy a good one for $5US from Hellolights.com that is completely submerged, or go with much more expensive setups. I use a RadioShack indoor/outdoor with a probe that is non-reactive with saltwater - read: plastic.>
Thanks :)
Jason
<Welcome!
-GrahamT>

LR, hazy water  3/23/07
Hey guys and girls,
<Hello. Hello.  Brandon here tonight.>
I am constantly learning from my own experiences and others that I introduce to the hobby.
<Good way to do things.>
3 weeks ago I helped my uncle set up his 75 reef.  He started his cycle with 70 lbs of Fiji live rock. his has a 50 gallon refugium with a 6 inch sand bed. He also has a Euroreef skimmer. I told him not to run his lights or skimmer during the cycle. After about a week and a half we seen his ammonia spike and go down to 0. Never did see a nitrite spike but from what I know this is common.
<I never saw either.>
His nitrate has risen to about 10.
<Acceptable, but a lower amount is attainable.  I would not worry unless you plan to keep coral.>
After his ammonia drop to zero and seeing the nitrates start to rise he did a 10 gallon water change and started running his lights and skimmer. Now here is his problem. The water has been hazy the entire time with not much signs of it getting better.
<This will clear up with time.>
The skimmer is pulling stuff out but its brand new (break in time).  After excessive reading, I am assuming it is probably a bacterial bloom which is new to me as I have never experienced this or seen it in other tanks.  
<I never had one either, but that does not mean that they don’t exist.>
Now what should I recommend he do? Run carbon and do water changes?
<Give it some time, run Activated Carbon, and possibly Polyfilters.  This will pass on its own.>
Any advice is always appreciated!
Thanks,
<You are welcome.  Brandon.>
Greg

pH Balanced for a...(rock, but strong enough for a fish?) 3/21/07
Hey guys,
<And gals...
Greetings to you, Adam.>
I really appreciate the Q&A section you have set up.   
Really very helpful.
<Is what we shoot for, thanks you for the props. Hobbyists need a place to sift through everything they read/hear/are told.>
Ok question is this: I just set up my new tank, 24 gal saltwater, 40lbs live sand, 25lbs cured live rock.  It's been running for 2 weeks now with no sign of any ammonia or nitrite spike so I am still waiting to add my clown, brittle star, and frogspawn from my old tank.  
<Ok, possible that the cured live rock and sand has cycled the system for you. Have you tested for nitrates?>
My PH has tested at 7.8 and I wish to raise it up and keep it up.  
<A worthy cause.>
Is there a preference to Kent Marine Superbuffer or SeaChem's buffer product? If so, why the preference?  
<Hmm, product research is something I personally leave to the individual aquarist. But here is some reading for you: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mphprods.htm
Read to the bottom and every link in blue up above. Pay attention to the links that appear on each new page, because the cross-referenced links are very useful too.>
Is it important for me to raise my PH at this point or will it raise with my weekly water changes?
<Mmm, at two weeks, I wouldn't be concerned with a 7.8 pH yet. When you get some photosynthetic life forms in there; i.e.., algae, then you'll have a daily rise/fall in pH due to the production/metabolized carbon dioxide. They produce O2 by day, and CO2 by night. Also something to consider: you don't need lights on right now, as this may fuel a nuisance algae-bloom before you are inclined to deal with one.>
If I do begin to use a buffer product, will I need to use it on a regular basis?
<Only as your tests tell you that you need to. I find that a salt worth its "salt" is good at buffering when you do your water changes regularly. In addition to your pH test kit, you will want to invest in a carbonate hardness test kit. You will see why when you read the link above.>
I really don't want to use a product which will make my tank reliant upon that product.  
<Good thinking. I like to use the least amount of supplementation that I can get by with.
-GrahamT>
Thank you  
so much, ADAM

Re: pH Balanced for a...(rock, but strong enough for a fish?)  3/23/07
Hi again, thanks for the PH advice.  I will wait a little while longer before I become concerned.  And by the way, I have only been running my lights maybe 1 hour a day so could that give a lower PH reading just like a lower reading in the morning?
<Mmm, to a small extent, possibly, yes>
To answer your question, yes I have tested for nitrates and they are zero.  So no ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate after 2 weeks.   I also added a few tiny  frozen shrimp which I feed my other tank to try and induce an ammonia spike last week.  Maybe my rock and sand has cycled it.
<I do think you're right>
  But I will wait at least one more week before I transfer my tank.  Now, I have a clown fish, a brittle star and a frogspawn which I am putting into this new tank.  Questions are this: Do you think I can add any of  them now or should I wait another 1-3 weeks?
<Better to wait>
And the day I transfer them, how much acclimation is needed for each species before they should be put into the new tank?
<An hour or so>
Once again thanks...you guys (and gals) are great.    Oh yeah, there are also a bunch of tiny starfish which came from the sand or rock in there, will they be reef safe? ADAM
<Likely so... I would move them with. Bob Fenner, in for Big G as he moves into his new digs>

New rock old rock and cycling problem?? – 03/18/07
Hi guys.
<Rochelle>
I'm transitioning to a bigger tank. I set up a new 55g saltwater tank a week ago. I added from my established 30g tank... 10 gal of water, some live sand
sprinkled on top of the new 40# of crushed coral, the rinsed carbon filter and a live rock, in hopes of moving things along a little quicker. after day
4 things looked great! no ammonia, no nitrites and on 10ppm nitrates, assumably due to the brown algae in the established tank from the water I
used. so I added a damsel. Things went well... he lived. my best friend owns a pet store so I got the inside scoop on the new live rock coming in, I had
to have some!! it's gorgeous Fiji!
<Mmm... still... better to "cure" this elsewhere...>
so I picked out about 5 pounds after we rinsed it off and I brought it home and picked off the dead plants and
sponges, that was day 5. now my ammonia level, on day 8, is going up currently at 1.0 and my nitrites are 1.0
<Both toxic...>
and nitrates are 40 PH is good at 8 4. I know those parameters aren't horrible, bit I have some fragile critters and I like near perfect water.
<Move either the "old" life or the new rock, stat.!>
I'm confused. my parameters in my other tank never increased or decreased no mater how much I was poking around in there, never ammonia or nitrites. do I do a water change if this keeps up?  do I leave it alone? is it cycling again?
<It's toxified by dying life on the new LR...>
maybe I interrupted something by using stuff from my established tank? still lots of dead stuff on the new rock?
<Yes>
eventually everything from my established tank will be going to the new one, slowly of course to prevent shock.
<I wouldn't worry re this... move the new LR or "old stuff" now...>
I feel uncomfortable adding any more live rock from the established tank due to the amount of baby sea stars living on them. and my brown starfish has split and is somewhere regenerating he could be on the rocks. I guess my question is.... do I leave my 55g alone a let the live rock cycle and cure?
<I would NOT>
Do I do water changes to reduce the ammonia and nitrites? if I do a water change will the ammonia and nitrites increase again?
<Source needs to be separated... PRONTO>
I have a yellow sea slug nudibranch thing, a 10" red sea star, 8-10 baby sea stars, pencil urchin, pincushion urchin, the dumbest hermit crab on
earth, an emerald crab, 2 gobies, a brown star fish that his split into 3 pieces, and 4 damsels. they kinda need a bigger home. I don't want to kill
anything, I know this will be time consuming since my live rock has to acclimated in cuz of the baby stars. I'm not sure what to do here. I want to
do things quickly but safely.
thanks for your help
Sheli
<Bob Fenner>

Post cycling pH jump  – 03/15/07
Hi crew,
<George>
I've been reading your FAQs even before I started my setup, and can only say thank you for all your efforts.  I humbly admit while I have kept a simple successful saltwater tank in my past for a few years, the one I am starting now is beginning to humble me more so.
<One of the qualities I seek for myself in this involvement>
Brief overview: 75 gallon hex tank, 95 pounds partly cured live rock (from a store my fellow reef nut has used for a decade) and 100 lbs live sand (Ocean Direct by Carib sea), sump (which I've used until my 24x12x17 refugium came in). Allowed it to cycle in tank and measured pH, refractive index kept at 1.23-1.24, amm, nitrite, and nitrate daily.  All went smoothly all along, not too much debris.  Used deionized tap water (large cartridge type system. no $ yet for an RO sys).  2 weeks ago, all readings finally rested at 0, pH steady at 8.2-8.4, sp. grav at 1.024.even nitrates, and almost simultaneously I began to see the beginnings of the diatom bloom.  Waited 5 more days to make sure readings stayed low, an then ordered cleanup crew. consisting of 10 Nassarius, 10 Ceriths, 5 Turbos, some micro stars and mini brittles (about 120 total), a bottle of live copepods and 2 scarlet cleaner shrimp as well as some rhodophyte and coin Caulerpa; 2-3 cups Chaetomorpha in the fuge (Inland Aquatics, and Live Aquaria source).  At the same time I began setting up a small acclimation/QT tank figuring by time that was done cycling I could start looking for fish.  Again, every single day I measured everything. and all parameters were in line.  The only negative seemed to be the diatoms starting to take off.
<Not necessarily harmful>
On the day all the inverts arrived, suddenly -i.e., within a 1 day period. the pH had jumped to 8.8.  I tested 3 times to be sure, tested the water I was using to make up the salt mix (which by the way is Reef Crystals by Kent).
Immediately instituted a 30% water change, then began acclimation over 3-4 hrs (used very very slow addition of 10% bag volume every 15 min or so).
All is still alive, but I can't stop the climbing pH.  I've been employing a stop gap measure of water changes and using pH down to slowly adjust (it's sulfuric acid, not phosphate based).  All the while Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate remain zero.  Any suggestions or clues or remedies?  100% water change?
<I would not fool with the pH here... I suspect this is an effect, perhaps artifactual of the algae (Chaetomorpha) addition... At any length, the pH will drift down of its own accord... with time, reductive events in the system. Don't panic! Bob Fenner>
Your advice is greatly appreciated !

Re: Post cycling pH jump   3/15/07
Cheers Bob.  I agree...I don't like altering acid-base chemistry by additives except on occasion, and this was one.  The pH bounce back suggested something more.
<Yes>
I've now noted the pH is the AM after a few hrs in the darkness is ~8.2...and after lights on a few hrs it presumably is climbing.
<Bingo>
Figured I should also do some testing of with/without aeration to see the dynamics there.  Seaclone skimmer has been running about 1 week also, producing a fair but not great yield of skimmate (yes...this will be replaced by a more efficient skimmer someday...maybe soon); thinking of adding airstone in sump section to test buffering and gas exchange (indirectly).  So I'll be wary of the O2/CO2 issue and carbonate/bicarb chemistry going on...without use of additives, I think I may be able to find a better balance.
<Time will tell>
Keep up the awesome & noble work.  You're reaching a wider audience than any classroom or publication could reach here!
George
<Ahh, the Net... what will come next? Something like "Star Trek"... and then? BobF>

Live Rock with Copper 2/16/07
Hey guys, <Hi> I have a question about live rock and copper treatments. I looked over the other postings and I couldn't find the answer. Ok, so it's been over 6 months since I treated my quarantine tank with copper (I did have live rock in it at the time I did the copper treatment). I only treated the tank and rock about 3 times max. The rock now has brittle worms and copepods all over it and it's covered in coralline. So I'm wondering if it would be possible to put in into my main tank and still have it be safe for my inverts? <Probably not, not worth the risk anyways, at least in my mind.>  If it isn't safe why are there inverts on the rock now and why aren't they being affected? <Different organisms have different tolerance levels, many organisms might still be effected.> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
<Chris>

Re: Adding live rock to cycled tank    2/2/07
Hey Mich!
<Hi Jennifer!>
Thanks for the super fast reply!  
<Welcome!>
I read the links as suggested just wanted to double check, if the live rock I get from the LFS (which they say they have cured) has an ocean smell and not a stinky smell it's ok to put in my tank?
<Yes, should be, just keep an eye on your parameters.>
Also, would it be ok to start with 5 or 10 lbs or is that too little?
<Anything is better than nothing.  Adding slowly is fine.>
Thanks! Jennifer
<You're welcome!  -Mich>

Copper and Live Rock 9/25/06
Hi Bob,
<Hi, Chris here>
Is it true that copper can kill your biological filtration system?  (Live rock, Bio Wheels). <Yes>  I have a 55 gal.  FOWLR, emperor 400, SeaClone 150 skimmer, 18 watt turbo twist, 2 Hagen 802 powerheads.  I can not keep more than 3 fish alive in there then they start dying off. <Tank infected with Ich.> My local source told me that the copper killed my live rock.  Could that be the case...
<Probably>
Thanks
Aaron
<Chris>

Live Rock and Low Calcium/Adding Livestock to a New System...And The Need to Read! - 09/22/06
Hello There,
<<Howdy!>>
I'm hoping you can help?
<<I'm here to try>>
I recently set up a 74 gallon SW tank at my home using RO water and adding salt.  What I neglected to do was add the calcium which came with the salt, as I'd been misinformed that "the salt would already contain enough calcium".
<<Mmm, yes...most mixes don't have separate components to be mixed by the consumer though at least one has a bottle of "trace elements" kept separate and added at time of mixing.  What brand of salt mix did you use?>>
I added 20 kilos of live rock to my tank and 3 days later added some cleaning crew - 2 cleaning shrimp, 1 blood shrimp, 6 red-leg hermits and 6 turbo snails.
<<Hmm...Likely a bit early to be adding macro-biota to your tank.  Are you testing/did you test water parameters beforehand?>>
All of the cleaning crew died except for the hermits which hadn't moved at all since their introduction.
<<Indeed...poisoned by the excess of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate present in a new and un-cycled system>>
After 2 more days the calcium content was checked at the aquatics shop and found to be at 50 points.
<<Is this ppm?  Incredibly low...>>
I immediately added the calcium and this brought the reading up to the 400 point mark as you'd expect.
<<Ahh...>>
I have since added another blood shrimp, 7 turbo snails, 2 Percs and a Regal Tang; all of which have been doing fine I feel.
<<Yikes!  Aside from the fact this tank is too small for the long-term good health of the tang...are you familiar with the need to cycle this system/establish bio-filtration before adding livestock?  Please read here and the linked files above: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm.  You need to slow down and acquire some books on marine startup/new systems and READ before proceeding any further my friend>>
My main worry now is that, I have inadvertently, caused damage to my live rock, keeping it in the water for 5 days with a calcium reading of 50 points.
<<Not likely>>
Can you please advise if my rock will still be ok to filter my aquarium efficiently or has the rock been damaged irreparably?
<<Dissolution of the carbonate material in your rock is more affected by pH than the level of calcium in the system.  The subnormal calcium level will have had little (if any) effect on your rock, or the life on/within, in this time period.  No need to be worried about the rock...but I am concerned for your livestock...please do check ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, if any of these read above 'zero' remove your livestock until this tank is finished cycling.  Learn for yourself (study/research) so as to become less dependent on the "sometimes not so good advice" of others>>
Thank you in advance,
Regards,
David
<<Happy to assist.  EricR>>

Formalin and Live Rock 9/10/06
I really enjoy reading your advice. It has helped me as a novice to marine tanks a great deal, but I think I still did something stupid. <We all have at some point.> I had a clownfish with signs of the parasite responsible for clownfish disease. So I
did the formalin dip exactly as I was supposed to. He died within a minute of exposure to the dip. ( to be fair he was doing very poorly immediately before the dip) The stupid thing I did was take a piece of live rock from my tank and put it in my QT. I did this because someone told me I it would help to keep stress down with the rock in there since before I just had a stark 10 gallon qt with nothing in it. <For future knowledge, it is much better to use a piece of PVC in QTs, non-reactive with medications and disposable.> Well since the fish appeared to be so distressed I hurried and just grabbed the piece of rock he most liked from
my main tank. That piece of rock was exposed to formalin on Wednesday. Is it safe to return it to my main tank? (It is my favorite piece of rock) Have I tainted it by exposing it to the formalin or can I safely add it back to my tank with endangering my other fish or invertebrates?
<Would probably be safe after several water changes and using a PolyFilter.  However, I would not use it, the risk of carrying either the formalin or the clownfish disease back to the main tank is too high compared to the cost of a new piece of LR.> <Actually... the formalin "dissipates" or otherwise reacts so quickly with "life" that it is likely long since gone. RMF>
<Chris>

Coppered Tank - 25/08/2006
Hello WWM crew, greetings from Macedonia    
<Hello Boris, You've got John from Shanghai here.. dusting himself off after an extended absence>
I have a question for a friend of mine. The situation is like this: He has a system previously run fish-only, in which he regularly dosed copper-based medication.
<Yikes!>
After that he acquired some live rock but contrary to recommendations he didn't change change 100% of the water, but only 50%.
<I fear that even a 100% water change would not be sufficient. Likely even the very silicone and glass in the tank is contaminated.>
Then regularly for 7-8 months each 10 days he change 10% of water.
This system does not work well for him with corals, which is to expected.
<Yes, most invertebrates will not tolerate copper>
We wonder now, as he is planning a new system, should we use this live rock in a new system?
<I wouldn't. I also wouldn't use this tank in a reef system again. Should be OK for a fish-only system, but the live rock may be... rather "dead.">
Thank you in advance
<You're welcome! Thanks for writing. John W.>
Boris

Re: Coppered live rock follow up - 1/9/2006
Hi John,
<Hi again Boris.>
Thanks for the reply. One more question, LR is somewhat full of live, small amphipods and copepods are crawling. There is Coralline algae growth too. One more suggestion please?
<Hmmm it doesn't sound too bad if 'pods are surviving. I still would be very cautious about putting coppered rock in my tank. Perhaps you could set up a small holding tank and introduce a fish /invertebrate as a bio-assay? Best regards, John>
Cheers
Boris

Live rock turning white... happens   8/18/06
I'm running 55gal tank + 10 gal refugium with 5 fishes (snowflake eel, harlequin tusk,
<Both/either of these species needs more room than this>
ocellaris clown, cardinal and a blue damsel), 50lb of live rock, lots of red mushrooms and xenias, some yellow polyps and a crocea clam. This system have been running for 2 years
<The first two fishes stunted...>
and was very stable. The problem is that 2 weeks ago my chiller that was set at 79 deg) stopped working and 2 days later all the xenias and mushrooms just died,
<Yikes>
I managed to remove to another system the polyps, the clam and a sand star, but the harlequin and the blue damsel passed out. I can understand why all this is happening, the temp went up from a stable 79 deg to 88, but what I will like to know is why the live rock is losing the coralline it had covering them, is it for the change in temp also?
<This and the chemicals released by all...>
When I started the system and didn't have the chiller I did get lots of coralline growing in the rocks or maybe part of the problem is a re-cycling that is occurring because of all te die-off of the corals?
<Ah, yes>
The rest of the fish are holding on so far but don't know for how long. The chiller is still in repair with a refrigeration tech but don't know why is taking so long.
<Takes time... may not be able to be economically repaired... Bob Fenner>

Big Tank, Water Quality/LR, Ozone, Curing LR    8/13/06
I am curing around 1500 lbs of rock in about 1200 gallons of water.
<Mmm, a note for browsers... such large amounts of LR can be cured "in place" in large systems, but I encourage this elsewhere... much easier to manipulate, much less messy/stinky>
There's about 40,000 gph of water movement. I've got two AquaC skimmers rated for up to 1000 gallons cranking overtime (with ozone on when the ORP drops below 390 and off at 400).
<Rather a "tight" setting... I'd move the lower value down to the 350 or so range>
  I scrubbed it all pretty good before I put it in, but have only done minor incidental water changes (leaky plumbing and VERY aggressive skimming).
Its been almost two weeks since I first introduced the rock. Nitrites are around 4.0 ppm,
<Too high>
nitrates are around 20 ppm
<Way too high... these values spell the doom for too much of the "live" portion of your rock. Should be kept down...>
(both have seen a huge decline in the past few days. The pH has been staying high - ranging from 8.1 - 8.6.
<This is the ozone, not biomineral effect>
My real query is about my ORP. Until this tank I've never had the equipment to monitor or regulate my ORP before. Its currently at 419 and still on the rise from what I can tell.
<... too high...>
Honestly I don't think I fully understand the concept from reading the article on the site, but from various Q and A's on the site I gather that this is not that big of a deal as long as its not ozone that's raising it that high (which it's not in this case - at least not from the ozonizers).
<... Really? What is "it" from? Have you tried turning off the ozonation?>
My water is still quite yellow however, despite running carbon and PolyFilters and ozone off and on.
<Massive die-off effect>
Due to the location of the tank it would ideal if we could expedite the un-yellowing of the tank. Thanks for your help, Scott
Sent via Blackberry from T-Mobile  ²[%
<Neat... Well... to start with, though it may seem expensive, I would make a very large water change here... perhaps half... Next, I would carefully (like two separate test kits) measure alkalinity/acidity, and look into the means (there are a few... and this can be confusing for sure) of bolstering the same... with a source of carbonates and bicarbonates. I would look into your calcium, magnesium concentrations as well... these are likely out of whack, and relying on the water changes alone will too-likely drive you bonkers as well as to the poor house... When you have occasion/time, do take a read over WWM re the concepts of alkalinity, this and pH... the use of supplements for same. Bob Fenner>

Tank Overheated to 110 degrees...Hard Boiled Eggs, Anyone?  6/15/06
Hi,
<Hello Travis>
I know this overheating question gets asked all the time but it usually doesn't get to 110.
<Yikes!>
I purchased 60lbs of live rock from another local aquarist who had it for years so it had a lot of life in and on it. I was storing it in a 20 gallon tank until the plumbing was done on my 65 gallon. I had no problems with nitrates.
We experienced a power surge which fried the microprocessor in my new digital Finnex heater. The water temperature got to 110 degrees for about 3 hours until I discovered it and cooled it. I know all the worms are dead but I was wondering about the coralline algae. Should I scrub it all off and try to reseed the rock with fresh live rock or do you think it might recover. I hope it will recover and I will still buy a couple more pieces to help it along.
<Would not scrub, coralline will return in time.>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Travis

New Live Rock   6/10/06
Hey guys,
<Hi Kenneth - Tim answering your question today!>
I just started a 35g tank and My levels all seem somewhat normal
<What precisely does "somewhat normal" mean? Ammonia and nitrite should be zero - anything other than that means the tank is not fully cycled or indicative of some other problem - but in any case not normal.>
( I am curing/cycling) ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite are all very low and Ph is 8.3. I just added 40 - 45 pounds of LR and had a temp drop from 80 to 72 (I live in Chicago) so i adjusted the water heater.  I added the rock on Wed. so it has been running for about 48-60 hours. The rock was beautiful when I got it but now it seems dead, the colors are not bright like they seemed in the box.  
<Some die-off is to be expected when introducing new rocks, especially when introduced in larger quantities into a new aquarium - some things will invariably die during transit, their death and decomposition will strain the weak biological filter causing the tank to re-cycle, with the ammonia and nitrite spikes potentially resulting in further deaths. Eventually things will balance, so just be patient, keep a close eye on your ANN levels (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and be prepared to do water changes as and when necessary - yes, this will slow the cycle, but ensure that more living organisms survive the cycle-period. You also make no mention of the lighting or circulation you employ in your aquarium - both must be of sufficient strength to maintain certain organisms living on/in the rock!>
The skimmer is producing 1/2 an inch of white foam but nothing is making it to the collection cup
<This is an adjustment issue - if the foam looks thick but is simply not reaching the neck of the skimmer then you will need to adjust the skimmer accordingly.>
and the water is slightly yellow.
<Suggests high levels of DOCs.>
I just moved the rock for better circulation but no change and the odor is very low. What should I do. Or am I not being patient enough?
<I suggest you wait, as noted above, keeping an eye on your ANN levels and doing water changes as necessary. You will also need to adjust your skimmer to improve efficiency. In the future, I would strongly recommend that you give all new live rock a good clean before introducing into your aquarium. This is as simple as placing into a bucket of saltwater, giving the rock a gentle scrub with a toothbrush and then picking/scrubbing off any visibly dying organisms, before finally giving the rock a strong blast from all sides with a powerhead. Best of luck! Tim>

Live Rock...Copper  - 05/29/06
Dear Crew,
Thank you for the great information that you provide to us hobbyists. <You're welcome.> I have read all the information, and varied opinions that involve live rock and copper in your FAQ's but I still find no resolve to my current situation. I have a 45gal FOWLR with about 50lbs of live rock that was, of course, beautiful till I added CopperSafe to the tank to cure an ich problem. My LFS provided the insight, I provided the ignorance. I have removed all of the copper, via CupriSorb and Boyd's ChemiPure. I have 0 copper in my tank as far as a test kit goes, yet kept it all in there due to your FAQ's regarding possible leaching. My rock is all brown now, and I am adding a small amount of new "live" rock at a time to try and "seed" the rock back alive. Is this possible, or hopeless? I see no featherdusters on my old rock, or anything else that seems "alive". I would assume that the wet/ dry I have is keeping things half way stable as far as my bio-filter goes, I have stable readings across the board as far as testing goes (ammonia, PH, Nitrite all 0, and less than 10 ppm nitrate) Is the rock that I have going to be a bio- filter still, or is it now base rock?
Can what was lost, become "alive" again?
I miss all my little critters that were all over in there, thank you in advance for all your help (crew) you are an inspiration to us all out here.
<Billy, even though you read 0 for copper, the rock has absorbed copper, almost acting like a protective film on it preventing any living organism from growing on it.  I believe it would be quite some time before anything will grow on it.  I would suggest replacing your tainted/treated rock.  Do consider a quarantine tank in the future.  It will eliminate this problem.  James (Salty Dog)> <<RMF would suggest that this rock is likely fine, the copper rendered almost solubilized completely. I'd add some new on top to re-seed it>>
Billy

Live Rock... cured quality  - 5/12/2006
After adjusting my 90gal saltwater tank for a sump setup, I purchased some larger pieces of live rock.  I have 4 large pieces about 12-20lbs each.
The rock appears greeny/brown, slightly slimy.  The dealer said the rock was cured.
<<If it is slimy and smells foul, it is not cured.  I always cure live rock for an additional few weeks after purchase before adding it to my stocked tanks.>>
I've made frequent trips to this dealer and I'd believe the rock has been sitting in one of their tanks for about two to four weeks. If I recall, there wasn't much water flow in the tank the rock was being held in.
<<I do not think the rock is fully cured.>>
Before introducing the rock to my tank, I completely submersed the rock in a bucket of warm (24oc) fresh water for a few minutes.
<<Does the potential of hitchhikers out weigh bio-diversity for you, then? I do not FW dip my live rock.>>
I also closely examined the rock for worms or possible critters.  I couldn't see any.  The dealer mentioned that they always go through the process of checking as well. At the moment, I have the rock all setup in my main tank with my sump and skimmer working.  My water flow rate is about 13 times an hour.  After reading over some of your articles I'm wondering...  I left some small clam/muscle shells attached to the rock and there appears to be the odd little skinny stem or branch hanging off the rock.  Is this fine to leave as is?
<<It is LIVE rock.  Critters are a good thing (with a few notable exceptions).>>
The only critters I have in this tank are a sand sifting star and a larger serpent star (whom I can't find).
<<I would remove the sand-sifter.  They deplete the sand bed of life and starve in all but the largest of tanks.>>
The rest of my critters are anxiously awaiting their new home in a 20gallon tank.  I plan on doing a series of water tests tonight and again in a week.  If both tests show the water quality is good, am I ok to start stocking my tank slowly with fish?
<<I would wait at least a few weeks with an addition of that much live rock.>>
Would my water quality appear to be fine and then have a huge ammonia spike after a week if the new rock was rotting or would I expect to see the high ammonia spikes immediately?
<<Die-off doesn’t all happen at once.  I would wait a few weeks to be sure.>>
Dave
<<Lisa.>>

Salvaging "Old" Live Rock  - 04/16/06
Howdy,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
Got a question concerning live rock that's been stored for about 2 years in a Rubbermaid container. A buddy offloaded some live rock on me that he's had in his basement for 2 years in a closed container with no fish (but kept a 802 powerhead in the container for circulation). I'm concerned about putting this rock in my main FO tank.
<As well you should be with anything added to your system! Good attribute to have- paranoia!>
I've been trying to cycle it in a 29gal (some of it anyway, it'll fully load a 55gal to the rim) for the past 6 months, even tried a refugium on the tank with Chaetomorpha and a 50w daylight floodlight a friend recommended. Nitrates shoot thru the roof 80ppm + (with water changes it drops 20ppm. but within a few days it's back to before I did anything), also get Cyano growing like weeds. I even tried putting a clown in the tank (poor little guy) hoping that maybe with a small bioload the organisms would start to grow and take care of the nitrate (clean cycle of course).
<Not a bad thought, I guess.>
Can't be the water I'm using, only use R/O water (and change the filters on it as recommended). So I'm guessing it comes down to the rock itself. Should I kill off the rock (bleach and dry) and start from scratch with a small piece of good LR? Or go get a small piece of good rock and add it to the bad in hopes that it'll re-seed what this rock is missing?
<Well, there are a lot of theories about phosphate/nitrate accumulation occurring within live rock, and some of them probably have validity. This is the "theory" behind the concept of "rock cooking" that you'll hear a number of hobbyists discuss on various hobby message boards. The thought is that by leaving the rock in a closed dark container for extended periods of time, you'll kill of undesirable algae (duh) and give the rock time to "leach out" trapped detritus and organics. I suppose there is some validity to this practice, although I've never subscribed to it. The fact that your rock, which has been "cooking" for years, is a possible source of organics seems to contradict this theory, however. Hmm. I suppose that you could either place this rock into a much higher flow/light environment to see what happens, or you could "nuke" it with bleach and start over with truly "dead" rock that is devoid of all life, microbial or otherwise. If it were me, I'd try to work with it in a more conventional reef tank setting first before giving up on it.>
There's no odor from the rock I have, it's teaming with bristleworms and MiniStars, but I can save some of them from the sand and just dip the rock to get what Ii can out of 'em if I have to bleach.
<I'd really try to avoid the bleaching, if at all possible.>
Also,  the main tank has a 3 inch sand bed (sugar sized and the sump has a 5 in) could part of the problem be lack of sand turning?
<I doubt it. It could be an issue of the sandbed being excessively disturbed, for that matter, or even an exhausted RO/DI cartridge (do check your source water for nitrate and phosphate before use, just to make sure. Aggressive nutrient export (protein skimming, sue of water changes and chemical filtration media, such as activated carbon or PolyFilter) can also help you salvage this rock for future use without resorting to the "nuclear" option!>
If so, would trying a fresh cycle with a goby to shift the sand that's already there maybe help? that's the only other thing I could think of that might fix the problem (but afraid that if the bed is established it'll cause trouble in the layers)
John
<Agreed, John. Try the nutrient export approach first. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Medication/Live Rock    4/4/06
Hello crew,  <Hello Dan>
You have literally been a life saver and hopefully can help me out once again. About a month ago I had to QT two of my clowns because of a
parasite problem (which you helped me through, thank you), I treated them with Maracyn-Two. To help the filtering process while they were in
QT I added a couple pounds of live rock from my 90 gal reef tank. My question is, can I return the live rock to my display tank, or has the
rock absorbed the Maracyn-Two and could potentially affect my inverts. I would just leave the rock in the QT but I don't want to leave the tank
set-up.  <Shouldn't be a problem Dan, copper sulphate would be a different story.>
Thanks for all your help.  <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Dan