Tube Anemone incomp. with other Cnid.s.
Q. I've set up a 105 gallon tank in my office in March this year and I really wish I
had know about Flying Fish Express and you back then. The fish store provided limited
help.
Our tank began with fish only. A few months ago I began to appreciate the value (not to
mention the beauty) of live rock and sand and began to gradually "upgrade" the
tank. So far all has gone well.
A few weeks ago, I added a tube anemone (Cerianthus membranaceus). Within 48 hours of
adding it to the tank, it began to stand up and it appeared to be doing well. Then
however, it became quite sluggish and at the time of this note, it's completely
disappeared from the top of a rock into a crevice.
I've had my water tested several times and everything checked out fine. What could be the
problem? I have a few other anemones (a Sebae and a Green Carpet) and they seem to be
doing well, with the exception that they've moved several times. They don't seem to favor
being on top of rocks or near the current either. Any suggestions would be much
appreciated.
>>
A. Good observations, of a "tricky situation". Tube Anemones are (not can be,
are) a real source of trouble in almost all settings. These specialized animals really
need their own dedicated set-up... soft, deep bottom, a lack of other stinging celled
life, and a short list of suitable fishes....
There is a sort of stinging and chemical war going on in your system
that eventually everyone will lose. The movement of your other anemones points to this
battling. Do take a long look at my articles posted at wetwebmedia.com on Anemones, Tube
Anemones... for more of a complete rundown. I would return the Tube Anemone or
accommodate
it in a separate system... quickly. Then I would do a massive water change (maybe fifty
gallons) with premade water, and add some PolyFilter in my water path flow. Be careful
when moving the Cerianthus... you want as little mucus et al. to get in/stay in the system
as possible.
Bob Fenner
Coral and anemone follow-up... comp.
Hello Everyone:
<Cheers, my friend>
Would like to give a special thanks to Anthony for his advise regarding the tube
anemone.
<my pleasure>
I reluctantly removed it and couldn't believe how the rest of
the coral has responded.
<they are indeed hostile>
Everyone is fully open and enjoying their meals per Anthony's instructions. Even
the candy coral seems especially happy and
has remarkably bounced back,
<great to hear!>
although I couldn't find the brand name frozen food he recommended, I bought
Hikari's brand of Zooplankton and Mysis Shrimp (hope this is acceptable).
<no worries if the protein is comparable (over 60%?)>
Everyone seems to be eating just fine because they are obviously very happy. Have
been feeding them 5:00 AM when their
feeding tentacles are out. I do have a concern regarding a lime green feather
duster (with a soft tube). I'm having trouble with bubble Caulerpa
sprouting on it. Apparently some time back it must have seeded itself
everywhere.
<bummer>
I have tried pulling it off the tube but it seems to stress the tube itself. Also,
there is a thick dark velvety red algae growing on the last inch of the tube
that seems to be getting thicker. I've tried to scratch it off with
my finger, but it
appears to be very dense.
<do try a peaceful grazing urchin like a Tuxedo sp (Mespilia)>
The rest of the tube is fine since I have it buried in the sand. So
far it doesn't seem to have bothered the feather duster. Should there
be concern?
<little>
Am also concerned about roots from the Caulerpa growing inside the tube and
bothering the little guy.
<agreed... remove when possible>
Everyone at WWM is just great, thanks for all the professional assistance.
<our great pleasure>
May the force be with you.
<it is... I had Mexican food for dinner. Thanks for noticing. Anthony>
Tube anemone and lion
hi! <Howdy!> I recently got a tube anemone & was wondering if I
could still get a lion, Or would the tube anemone grab & eat it ?
assuming its a small juv lion, also, is there any chance of the
lion stinging the anemone?<I would say go for it, they should be fine
together. Cody>
thanks <<RMF is not quite so sure>>
- Anemone Stings and Toxic Tank Question -
Do you mean that if they are stung by the Tube Anemone that they will die
immediately? <Really depends on the extent of the sting.> Or can it take a
few hours? <Both.>
From the contamination in the tank, could that cause the fish to look as though
they are peeling or flaking? <Yes. Cheers, J -- >
Purple tube anemone
I have a purple tube anemone and it is in with my reef which I have some corals
and other anemones and fish I was reading some of the articles in your forum but
didn't see anything about my tube which has long purple tentacles and by its mouth
has short light greenish tentacles is this tube anemone a threat to my tank
<From my experience, if you provide the tube anemone with enough space, it is
not a threat to your aquarium. However, some people have noted that their tube
anemone has eaten some of their smaller sized fish. Although this is uncommon,
it can happen. Overall, I would keep it -- It's a very colorful and hardy
addition to your aquarium.>
and if it is how do I remove it , it has attached itself to my tank by wedging
itself between a rock and live sand bed please help would greatly appreciate it
if you could email me with help.
<I recently removed my tube anemone from my tank due to an aquarium upgrade.
I needed to remove the rockwork and substrate around the anemone to get it out.
They are delicate which is why it's important to be extremely gentle if you
decide to eventually remove it.>
<Take Care, Graham.>
Tim
Percula Pair Going Through Divorce? Small, mis-mixed cnid. system, Tube
Anemone... 9/2/06
Afternoon,
<Yawnnnn! AM here now>
Thank you for being a resource for me! I've searched through the FAQ's and Daily
Q&A for an answer but I've only found bits and pieces relative to my clowns'
situation rather than the whole story.
They've been a pair for nearly 8 months, 6 of which in my 12gallon nano tank
with an appropriate watt Halide looming over it. The environment is littered
with coral -- neon green star polyps, leather coral, devil's hands, bubble
coral, frog spawn -- and presently has a single tube anemone.
<Too crowded... and a Cerianthus? Toxic>
My tank is not a good supporter of anemone's such as carpets, bulb, and long
tentacles, or rather, I'M not a good supporter of them since they don't live
longer than a couple months.
<... agreed... small marine volumes are unsuitable for actinarians period>
My guess is a lacking food supply since my clowns don't feed their anemone like
the clowns I've had in the past. I'm now trying the turkey baster with brine
method.
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tubeanem.htm
and the linked files above>
The problem (aside from my inability to keep an anemone besides the tube
anemone) is that my pair aren't much of a pair anymore. When I had my last
anemone -- which I just netted out of the tank today and tossed to the garbage
men,
<...>
my pair started going through the mating motions -- which i identified by the
smaller having the little seizure spasms near the larger. Now that the anemone
is gone the two aren't getting along.
The smaller will chase the larger into a corner, leaving the larger gasping at
the top of the tank.
<... too crowded... no where to get away... the cnidarians, incompatible,
warring with each other... will take out any/all fishes>
I'm worried because I absolutely adore these two clowns,
<If you do... then grant them a decent habitat... Please... Read re the needs of
these fish, provide them... A feeling will not support their health... only
action, with knowledge can. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clownfis.htm
and the linked files above>
they're incredibly hardy and eat like triggers, and now that they're fighting as
they are I'm pretty much just waiting for one to get too stressed out and end up
being an offering to the porcelain gods. They're about an inch and a half and
inch and three quarters long, the larger being thicker; they're a bright orange
with three white stripes connected by two large black patches. The colors are
immaculate and I haven't seen another like them in my LFS so I'm unable to
attempt to find a like male to replace the one who's pissy now.
Thank you for your time!
Ian.
<Translate your sentiment to focus, attention in gathering useful information re
the life in your care. Read! Bob Fenner>
Pink Tube Anemone... Not For Mixed Livestock Systems - 05/17/06
Hey guys,
<<Gals here too!>>
To start...my tank: I have a standard 72" 125 gallon with 4x96watt PC
lighting. 250ish/lbs live rock + 3" sand bed. I was helping a buddy unload his
tank because of a move and was able to get some good looking things for free.
<<Cool!>>
I got a 4-6" Foxface (Unbelievably timid for size and potential venom!),
<<Yes...a quite peaceful fish>>
a 2-3" Sailfin (Incredibly bold),
<<And the potential to get quite large>>
a bicolor blenny,
<<Not "reef safe" in my opinion>>
a percula clown, fire shrimp and flame scallop (which is now all the away across
the tank in a different cave. I find that kind of thing funny. That they move
on their own, like a cartoon...no eyes...anyway.).
<<Indeed...fascinating to observe, but unfortunately better left in the ocean as
most die from slow starvation>>
I also got a couple red Zoanthid clusters, a neon green torch coral, green
polyps, a flat type of mushroom, and a big puffy species of Shrooms (softball
size) and last but not least, a 2-3" diameter pink tube anemone which is sitting
under a cave I've made out of live rock, away from other corals.
<<Mmm...have you read here?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tubeanem.htm >>
Although it isn't my usual behavior to add things to my tank without research
first,
<<Ahh...was just wondering where to fit in this little "jibe" <grin> >>
this was a short notice situation, and I figured it would be ok, since
everything was living together in his tank previously.
<<Why would you assume that? Because something is in someone else's tank
doesn't automatically make it right...please do your research and base your
decisions on your own good judgment>>
I didn't even know they were low light anemones since most anemones I've heard
about are high level light.
<<Yes>>
So when I put it in, I put him in the center (my rock makes a U shape around the
back of tank). So I had the bulb part sticking out and I covered his "foot" up
with some sand and waited. The second day I saw the new anemone under that cave
I told you about.
Did he climb out of his tube and make a new home there, or did he crawl through
the foot of his tube and pop out on that side?
<<Likely the former>>
If he popped out, it should be safe to remove the old.
<<Yes>>
If he crawled out the foot, if even possible, can I remove his old tube?
<<Yes>>
I know that thing can be covered with those stingy nematocysts.
<<True, but little danger to your hands...wear gloves if you are concerned>>
So, wanting to know everything I can about what I have in my tank, I've been
doing some reading and haven't found very good news about this tube anemone.
<<?>>
Most if the info I have found basically says this thing will kill any of the
livestock I have that it touches.
<<Very possible...the tentacles on the outer margin harbor very powerful
stinging cells>>
Also, even if my fish don't accidentally swim into this thing, it is releasing
nematocysts (sp?) <<nematocysts>> that could sting my fish from across the tank?
<<Yes, along with corals, et al. Another good reason for keeping anemones of
any specie, in a specie specific tank designed/arranged for them>>
I don't have a sump yet so those things would just be circulating in my tank.
<<Will be even if you have a sump>>
I'm currently using a Fluval 404 with only the sponges right now as a filter.
<<Cleaned weekly at least I hope...better served as a chemical filter
(carbon/Poly-Filter)>>
This will be until I get a return pump for my 30g long sump. So should I get
rid of this thing ASAP???
<<I would, perhaps a trade to your LFS...or set it up in its own tank yourself
if you like it>>
I know to keep my other corals away from it, which isn't a problem in a tank
this size, but do the fish know to keep away from it?
<<No guarantees>>
What if they run into it at night?
<<Exactly>>
I have moonlights but is that sufficient for fish to see?
<<Again...is no guarantee>>
What about my snails and crabs? Are they doomed?
<<Should be fine>>
Would this be an instant paralysis type of thing if a fish touches it?
<<Would depend on the size of the fish and the size/amount of the contact>>
Like I've mentioned before when I wrote you guys about 1.5 years ago, I like to
compile my questions so as to reduce the amount of time and mailbox space I take
from you guys. I know you have a lot of E-Mails to go through and plenty of
other fish to save from the unavoidable doom of their owners.
<<All good...is what we do/hope to do>>
I was also reading that most angelfish, dwarf especially, don't like to be in a
tank with others.
<<...? Other what?>>
I was wondering your take on this because I previously, before I moved, had a
Bicolor angel in with a Coral Beauty and they were what appeared to be best of
friends.
<<Indeed...I have kept different Centropyge species together before as well,
though can be a bit of "trial and error">>
Only reason I ask is because I was considering getting another pair of those to
replace my previous ones. Bad idea?
<<Worth a try in this size tank I feel>>
I suppose although those two fish didn't fight, the next two could if it's in
their nature to.
<<Indeed so>>
Heck, I've seen maroon striped clowns co-existing with Percs before, even though
that is a no-no.
<<Most times, yes>>
So you see the list of corals I've recently acquired. These are the first frags
I've ever had, and the first into the tank.
<<All the more reason to start/continue with your research>>
They really add an amazing look to the tank.
<<Ah yes...isn't that why we do what we do? <G> >>
I also have a Kenya tree frag coming which I hear won't be easy to keep.
<<Be sure to feed it (all corals). Capnella is traded quite frequently amongst
members of my local reef club...it can be maintained with research/proper care>>
Based on this info, are there any supplements I can add to aid their growth and
consistent health?
<<With the corals you have listed, frequent partial water changes will be your
best "supplement">>
Maybe some phyto?
<<Most "corals" are carnivores>>
Buy a bottle of copepods?
<<Always a worthwhile addition, though densely stocked tanks can decimate their
populations quickly. Better to invest in a in-line refugium to help generate a
continuous supply of "coral food"...among other benefits>>
I am currently feeding the fish brine flakes because I don't have anymore of the
frozen brine which is my norm.
<<Ack!! Truly a poor choice (brine shrimp, flake or frozen)...very little
nutritional value. Feed a variety of foods...frozen mysis, plankton, krill,
supplemented with a "quality" flake or pelleted (New Life Spectrum) food soaked
twice a week in Selcon or Selco>>
I've done plenty of research on your site but specific answers are sometimes
hard to find when it comes to anemones and other livestock populations such as
this. Any comments and concerns are very welcome. I am very thick skinned and
open to advice and new ideas.
<<Excellent my friend, and I'm happy to assist where I can. Do continue your
self-edification through continued reading/research/asking questions>>
So no need to sugar coat anything...if I'm messed up let me know so I can
correct it without any livestock losing their lives.
<<No worries mate, we generally say what we feel>>
Thanks in advance.
<<Quite welcome, EricR>>
Pink Tube Anemone...Not For Mixed Livestock Systems III - 05/22/06
Hey Eric,
<<Howdy Ben!>>
Just thought you'd be interested in a little feedback on the tube anemone
situation.
<<Absolutely>>
Check out below in RED for a little refresher.
<<Okay>>
I was able to sell it on a fish forum almost the same day I posted it! Great
news there.
<<Indeed! For both you AND the anemone>>
At that point I still had his old "bulb" sticking out of the sand where I had
originally tried to place him.
<<I do recall>>
I walked into the room the day prior and saw my chocolate chip star fish
centered directly on the thing. Was he eating it?
<<Is likely...not a good species to house with invertebrates/corals/anemones>>
It looked pretty bad at that point anyway so I decided with no other objections
to your response, that it was time to remove the old tube. I dug around it and
followed it's foot through the
sand waiting for it to end where I had buried it, and to my surprise, it in fact
was the latter of my theories. The little bugger actually crawled down his
"foot" and popped himself out the other end and built a new bulb above the sand
for his new home...as a neighbor to his old exit.
<<Amazing creatures, eh?!>>
To solve that problem I followed his old tube down into the sand and picked a
spot about 2" into the sand and cut the old bulb off and re-covered the new
foot, which WAS the old neck, if you could associate animal body parts. After
the initial shock of me jerking his tube around, he popped back out happy as he
ever was swaying in the oceanic breeze.
<<Yes, as long as you didn't damage the anemone itself (I'm sure you were
careful), it will "remanufacture" the tube as needed>>
Thanks for the help...I look forward to future correspondence.
<<As do I my friend. Regards, EricR>>
P.S. While I got you on here, just because it's fresh in my mind. Do you have
a link or information on how to calculate how powerful of a return pump for my
sump I will need? I know what kind of flow I would want, but how can you tell
how much water is actually accumulating down there to pump back?
<<See if this head-loss calculator makes sense to you:
http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php >>
I want to have about 700 gph returning through two separate sides of the tank in
order to remove some powerheads.
<<Okay, easy enough...after calculating head loss (see the link I gave you),
purchase a pump that will provide about 20% MORE flow than you need and install
with a gate-valve on the output side of the pump. The little bit of extra flow
will be handy once the system ages and the plumbing restricts a bit (mineral/bio
accumulation), and the gate-valve will let you "tune" the flow as until/as
needed>>
I know I could just keep lowering my overflow until the pump quit pumping faster
than it was accumulating, but that sounds like a quick way to get a flood in a
power failure.
<<Ah, yes...use a pump/control the flow to something "less" than what the
overflows can handle>>
Just some quick thoughts/links to good resources I can do research on would be
greatly appreciated.
<<Try looking through the FAQs/links here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarfaq4.htm),
more useful information to be gleaned>>
This whole idea of starting my sump is intimidating to me because I know I'm
gonna flood the place.
<<Mmm...keep the towels handy, and have everything plugged in to GFCIs
<grin>. But seriously, install the gate-valve, proceed slowly...am sure you'll
be fine. EricR>>
Ben
Co-habitation... with a Ceriantharian?
Hi,
<Howdy>
I love your site and "The Conscientious..." Thanks for all the great info
and excellent attitude. You guys are a rare source of "straight" info--with
no sales pressure!
<Welcome>
I have a 35 g. tank with a medium (6-inch) tube anemone
<Yikes... Cerianthus? These are dangerous to keep with other life, particularly
in small quarters>
and a newly added
colony of Green button polyps on a small branch of live rock. The coral is
3 days old and opening for light, but I have noticed a few white marks on
the polyps when open. Reading your site has me concerned about a negative
biochemical situation between these two animals.
My questions:
1. Can these 2 animals live together? I am willing to entertain a special
setup to make it work.
<Not really. Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tubeanem.htm>
2. If they cannot, how much time do I have to remove the tube save the
coral (if indeed this is a biochemical warfare issue)?
<Not much>
3. Would it be possible to keep a rose bubble tip anemone with polyps and
other soft corals (and with the tube if I get positive answers to my first 2
questions)?
<... please read...>
What I am hoping is to keep some soft corals (a small number, I
know my tank is on the small side) and also an anemone/clownfish duo. Can
it be done? Again, special equipment, to a degree, is OK.
<Not with the Tube Anemone>
All the best and keep up the great work,
Dave
<Keep collecting those data points, you'll do fine. Bob Fenner>
Death of LTA Causing Pollution – 3/29/07
Hi crew,
<Hello, Brenda here>
I haven’t written in a while, but have a somewhat urgent question that I can’t
find the answer to. I had a purple long tentacle anemone that mysteriously
decided to leave his spot in a rock and apparently somehow tore his foot in the
process. He actually looked as if I had forcibly moved it. I never touched it
by the way.
<Did it come in contact with a power head?>
Anyway it was injured and then began to go downhill and within a couple of days
totally disintegrated, died and had to be removed. In the process of removing
it, it pretty much came apart and many parts of it (very small parts) went
everywhere throughout the tank.
<Yikes!>
The tank is 150 gallon with a large ASM skimmer so I wasn’t too concerned and
figured that the skimmer would take care of getting the stuff out of the water,
along with the crabs.
<Not necessarily fast enough. I suggest a large water change also. I also
don’t recommend crabs with anemones. Crabs have been known to pester and
attack these creatures.>
I have no idea what happened to make him move or why he died, but my question
really is this: I have a tube anemone that I have had about two weeks.
<Your tube anemone is likely the reason your LTA decided to move. You should
not house two anemones in one system.>
He has been very active and healthy, stays totally open all the time and looks
gorgeous; he has never closed since I have had it. This morning I get up and
the tube anemone is TOTALLY closed.
<Check your water parameters.>
I have not seen this at all since I got it. Last night he was wonderful and
seemed normal. Could he be suffering some sort of reaction to the death of the
purple anemone?
<Yes, from the pollution.>
I have heard something about toxins getting in the tank when anemones die. Would
this have happened and caused the other to have problems?
<Yes, ammonia is extremely toxic.>
My water parameters were tested the day before the purple anemone died and they
were all perfect. No ammonia, no nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, SG1.024,
<Salinity at 1.026 is best for anemones.>
Temp is always 78-81 night to day and I have lots of light MH and actinic,
lots. The calcium is steady at 440 to 460 and the ph 8.4. These tests were the
day before the purple anemone death; I have not tested this morning. Any help or
insight into this would be most helpful. I don’t want to lose this other
anemone too.
<You definitely need to monitor your water parameters closely after something
dies. Have saltwater ready at all times in case of an emergency.>
Thanks, Debi
<You’re welcome! Brenda>
Many Questions! Tube or other Anemone ID, Missing fishes/Mithraculus
5/24/07
Hi, I am new to the hobby and bought an existing tank 120g, complete with LR
and LS. It has been up and running for about 10 mo. now. I have some questions
that I am not getting answers that I trust. I have researched your site often
and find much helpful info. 120 g, 55 g sump and VHO lighting, G2 skimmer,
1.025, 79 degrees, ca 440, 8.1-8.3. 4 tube anemones,
<Stop! Are these Cerianthus? If so, this is going to be real trouble. Please see
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tubeanem.htm
and the linked files above. If these are not Tube Anemones, You/I need to know
what they actually are>
Sm purple tang, md orange shoulder tang, 2 true Perc clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp, 4
peppermint shrimp, 2 emerald greens,
<What's? Mithraculus? Please see WWM re>
(one pretty lg one) and many soft and LPS. (previously 3 Bartlett's
Anthias and
mandarin). First question, I have had a beautiful tank since I started it and
no algae outbreaks, can still see through my back glass. I am told I will have
an algae outbreak it's just a matter of when. Is this true if my tank, stays in
the condition it's in?
<? What? ... No, algae outbreaks are not inevitable... Again, time to search,
read...>
I have bristleworms to die for! I understand they are not an issue, however I
have such an abundance, I have been told something is wrong with my tank.
<What? Overfeeding?>
i do monthly water changes. I have my own trapping system and over the past 2
mo have probably caught 125+ of the little suckers and some very large ones. I
am just trying to keep them under control. They don't appear to be bothering my
corals.
<Likely not>
I have had several snails turn up dead and many around my tube anemones.
<Need to ID these...>
i have actually saw the tube anemones touching some of them, including a turbo
snail which soon died. I was told at the LFS that it is unlikely the
anemones
would sting and kill the snails. Is this true?
<... depends on the species...>
I have coralline algae growing on the rock and overflows but not much on the
glass, why?
<Read re on WWM>
Now my main concern...I bought 3 Bartlett's Anthias about 5 months ago. They
were all eating fine and very healthy appearing. Ate daily and sometimes
2x/day. After having them for 2 months, one disappeared. I had noticed another
of them the aggressor and sometimes would chase this particular one, so I
thought it stressed it out. Never saw the body. About 30 days later the
aggressive one disappears without a trace. Now I'm wondering what the heck. I
talked to the LFS owner and he was supposedly puzzled. Now I'm down to 1. Well
about another 30 days later, he disappears and 2 days later he is in my LR about
30% eaten. All of these fish ate well and this was not the issue. I asked if
the large emerald green could have killed them and I was told, not likely.
<Actually... all too likely. Maybe in concert with getting stung by the
anemone/s>
I have many of those flea-like pods in my tank and my mandarin was shy and
stayed in the LR mostly, he was very healthy and there is much for him to
eat. About 10 days after the last Anthias died, i noticed I haven't saw him.
<Note change of tense>
It has been several days now and I'm sure he is gone. He used to sleep out in
the front where I could see him. What is going on here?
<You're not reading...>
My sister (who has a tank) says that Anthias are just difficult and there is no
rationale. I want some! I loved those fish and I want to know where I went
wrong. Could it be the crab?
<Yes>
Bristleworms? Water changes?
<No, neither of these are likely... perhaps a lack of nutrition at play as
well...>
I would like to get more, but I will not until I have resolution to why this
happened. It wasn't a starvation issue for any of them. Are my clown fish
next? Did I have too many fish in the tank? Thanks. --
Chris Young
<I would read re the Mithrax/Mithraculus and remove them... and keep reading.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Many Questions! Tube or other Anemone ID, Missing fishes/Mithraculus
5/25/07
Thanks for the quick response. The anemones are Cerianthus. They are
placed away from any other life,
<Doesn't actually matter how far...>
except of course moving things such as fish, snails, crabs, etc. They have been
buried in the sand for many months and only 2 of them have moved slightly,
about 3 inches ea.
<Telling>
I did read further and need you to clarify. These Cerianthus can release
stinging cells into the water at anytime and therefore create death to other
living organisms.
<Yes>
They potentially can kill off my tank without ever touching anything?
<Yes>
Do the tentacles need to be damaged for this to occur?
<No>
I am now hesitant to add any further creatures to the tank.
<You are wise here>
I knew they could sting others, I had no idea of the extent of damage/death
they could do. I will get out the 2 Mithrax, it will be a job.
<Bait, trap them out>
Due to my ignorance of inexperience, I was unaware of their potential harm to
fish/snails, etc. Do you feel it more likely the Mithrax got the
Anthias or the
Cerianthus?
<Not possible to tell.. a combination likely>
Thanks again for your time.
Chris
<Glad to share, be myself. BobF>
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Sick/Dying Clownfish... Cerianthus!? 4/23/07
Hey guys, I tried to post a question in the forum but for the past 2 months
I have not been able to register as a new member (says it's temporarily down)
<I have repeatedly sent a note to the "sysop" (Lorenzo) re these notes... will
do again here. We/WWM does NOT "run" WWF...>
I've searched and searched your archives but am still unsure as to what I should
do. I have a 40G SW tank with 30Lbs LR. 3 corals, 1 mushroom and 2 tube
anemones.
<These last, Cerianthids... are problematical with other species... fishes and
invertebrates of many kinds... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/tubeanem.htm
and the linked FAQs file above>
My water quality is Nitrites 0, Nitrates .15, Ammonia .1. (Have been
struggling to get my #'s to 0 ) I do weekly 15% water changes with deionized
water. I am currently waiting on my 200G setup. I have 1 Tang,
<Not enough room for one here>
1 Fire fish, 1 yellow Goby and 1 clownfish. Truth be told, this is my fourth
clownfish. I've bought them all from the same place over the course of a few
months. All have died, and I'm waiting on the outcome of this last one.
<... small doubt THE reason could/likely is the Cerianthus>
The first pair I bought, one died the day after I brought him home. Next one I
added had Brooklynella, I tried FW dip and Formalin dip, but he died in the QT
tank. Last but not least was my love, Nemo, he was the original and lasted 5
months until a sick anemone fell on him. Now is the last of my clownies. He
has been gallantly hanging on for the past 4 days. White spot on his side, no
stringing feces like the last one, mouth gaping wide open with labored
breathing. Stays in one spot, under a coral. Darts out when fed but will not
eat. Since I had trouble with my anemone I did a 50% water change (2 weeks ago)
and put the anemone into a QT tank. EVERYTHING else is doing fabulous. My
question to you is should I attempt the FW dip? Or help him out of his misery?
(bag in freezer) Or just leave him to his agony?
<Do you have another tank/system to use for treatment?>
Whatever happens, this will have to be my last clowny until I get my new
setup. Clowns are my absolute favorite fish and this is just making me
heartsick. Any advice (or berating) would be ever so appreciated. Thank you in
advance, and thank you for having a site where people can go to for help in this
mysterious fishy world.
Karley
<Mmm... no need (or desire) for mystery here. Do read re the Anemones... they
are likely the source of the nitrogenous anomaly as well. Bob Fenner>
Mushrooms, Cerianthus comp... 4/22/07
<Greetings Mich here.>
I have been reading your site about mushrooms and have a few questions regarding
them. I have a 55-gallon tank with LR, fish, sand, starfish, crabs, and tube
anemones. Can mushrooms be added with the tubes anemones?
<Not close by. The tube anemones will sting/kill most anything with in striking
distance.>
Will they sting each other?
<The tube anemone will win.>
Will the mushrooms multiply and take over the LR?
<Usually not uncontrollably.>
Will they release a toxin harmful to the other tank mates if stressed?
<They have allelopathic capacities.>
Lastly, they also should be put in QT upon arrival before adding to your main
display correct?
<Always a good idea.>
(I have an Ich concern here. I'm not sure if the LFS has it in there system)
<Thus, the QT recommendation.>
Thank you for your advice.
<Welcome! -Mich>
Dwarf lion and orange tube
anemone. Comp. Qs 8/19/07
I have a couple of questions for you guys. I have a dwarf lionfish that was
recently purchased and is only about 2 inches in length.
<Small!>
I also have a fairly large skunk cleaner shrimp
<Will be inhaled in time>
and I was wondering what his chances of survival were with the dwarf lionfish
given that the lionfish is adequately fed. Let me add that the aquarium in
question is a 75 gallon with large amount of live rock offering many caves and
hiding places. Also, what chance do my crabs and snails have with the dwarf
lionfish.
<Mmm, could also be meals...but less likely>
On a related note, if the snails and crabs were gone, would serpent stars be
sufficient to keep the tank clean or are there other organisms that can replace
the crabs and snails that are not at risk from the dwarf lionfish?
<Mmm possibly... see WWM re marine scavengers>
Regarding the orange tube anemone, your site states that they will consume fish,
but then goes on to say that feeding a tube anemone meaty foods can be lethal as
they are filter feeders and I find in unlikely that both of these statements can
be true. I have on what I consider good authority that the orange tube anemone
is a filter feeder and poses no threat to fish, but I always like to check your
site as well since I like to have more than one point of view before coming to
any conclusions and I have always found your site very informative and helpful.
So if you could clarify your opinion regarding the orange tube anemone as to
whether or not it will consume fish I would be greatly appreciative.
<Mmm, is this a Cerianthid? Not recommended for a few other reasons... have seen
these Antipatharians consume large animals... Perhaps more of a defensive
mechanism than predation, but... the result the same for the hapless dead. Bob
Fenner>
Reef Lighting... effect on pH, and in
defense of Cerianthus mixing 9/20/07
I wanted to know what effects you may have experienced with PH while
changing the color temperature of your metal halide bulbs?
<Generally boosts pH a bit... a tenth of a point of two... for a short while>
I have a 75 gallon tank, 100 lbs of sand, 100 lbs of live rock, ph 8.3, and 0
ppm on ammonia/nitrites/nitrates/phosphates. I dose with Lime water about 2-3
times a week. I use 2X 10,000K Current USA metal halide bulbs.
Everything is fine while using these bulbs. When I try to change to 14,000K
Phoenix bulbs, my PH drops to the 7.9 - 8.0 range.
<Mmm, whatever the photosynthetic component of your systems' biota is, it
doesn't like the change evidently>
I have to constantly (almost daily) use limewater and Seachem reef buffer to
maintain 8.3. When I change back to the 10,000k's, my PH is back to normal. I
have corals of all types in my tank and you might say that the tank is medium to
heavily stocked. Is the color temperature THAT important to photosynthesis and
using 14,000k's means that I have an excess of CO2 because is the lower PUR of
the bulbs?
<Could be, yes>
Also, I think that tube anemones (Cerianthus) get a bum rap from you guys. I
have had 2 for over two years now and they have never exhibited the traits that
you mention in your articles. I believe the dangers are blown out of proportion:
<Thank you for your input here... My experience has been different>
"Re: Many Questions! Tube or other Anemone ID, Missing fishes/Mithraculus
5/25/07
The anemones are Cerianthus. They are placed away from any other life,
<Doesn't actually matter how far...>
and I did read further and need you to clarify. These Cerianthus can release
stinging cells into the water at anytime and therefore create death to other
living organisms.
<Yes>
They potentially can kill off my tank without ever touching anything?
<Yes>
I have never seen them release nematocysts, causing the death, destruction, and
mayhem that they purported to cause. They have never eaten a fish, corals don't
mysteriously get stung or stressed, and they have never killed a tank mate
(coral or fish). I have seen my purple tang with light marks (where she got
stung) on her, but they clear up within a day and she has since learned to stay
away. I feed them twice a week and they are as happy as can be. The only problem
I have ever encountered is when I first purchased the tube anemone, the sand was
not deep enough and it decided to go for a swim around the aquarium. It stung a
green hairy mushroom pretty bad, but it recovered and it has multiplied many
times since. The tube anemones are now in a 4 inch sand bed and they don't leave
their tubes. I know that others feel the same way:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/invert.htm
Thanks.
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Killer Tube Anemone 10/12/07
Dear WWM Crew
<Hi Michael, Pufferpunk here>
First, thank you for a terrific site.
<You're welcome, we aim to please!>
My question is this. I have a tube anemone (Cerianthus membranaceus), purple and
green in the "middle".
<Sounds gorgeous!>
It has killed at least one fish, a Firefish (Decora) and other fish have
vanished without a trace from the tank, maybe because of other things, but
still!
<I'll give you one guess...>
I have a 79 Gallon reef tank, with the following fish:
One yellow surgeon, an Argi, two Firefish, a common clownfish (ocellaris) a
yellow clown goby and a Lawn mower blenny. Should I return the tube anemone to a
store if possible?
<Well, you could send it to me! :p I live in the USA though...>
Are the rest of my fish in to much danger?
<These anemones are one the worst stingers around. They will actually whip out
their tentacles to capture fish & eat them. Small, slow-moving fish are not safe
in the same tank with them. Especially gobies/blennies that rest on things. You
also have to keep them a good foot away from any of your corals. Those tentacles
have quite a reach. I have a beautiful peach one that has a whole corner to
itself in a softie tank & lives with fast-moving fish. So far, all he's caught
are guppies.
Great link:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/invert.htm >
Thanks.
<Good luck, ~PP>
Michael Fick
Dragør
Denmark
Re: Killer Tube Anemone
10/22/07
Hi Pufferpunk
<Michael>
Just a little update. I returned the tube anemone to my local store and in
exchange got a beautiful Pink Button Polyp. Thank you
for the advice.
<You're welcome, good decision. ~PP>
Michael Fick
Dragør
Denmark
P.S. I must admit though that I miss the tube anemone but I know that I did the
right thing.
<Maybe another time, another tank...>
The Dichotomy of Tube
Anemones 3/5/08
Hi Bob...and crew,
<Michele>
Thanks again for your advice on my wet seals questions (Tank ended up working
out fine and has large African cichlids breeding like rabbits in it).
<Ah, good>
Ok I read all the info I could find on tube anemones, on your site and books,
hobbyists etc. I even contemplated adding one for 2 years. Well I got one a
gorgeous hot pinkish/orange tube anemone looks like Cerianthus orientalis, from
your pics on WWM. I know all about there reported habits and care my salt system
is at total 240g (a three level inter connected system) I have bio filtration
for a system many times my total volume, an established refugium, lots and lots
of natural plankton maybe phytoplankton (need better scope). I have black foot
snails breeding, rose anemones splitting; very stable and consistent water
quality. So I cleared a 2ft area of my reef built a rock wall around the sand
bed for the Tube anemone and added it, (it had a powerful enough sting to leave
welts on my skin! I have been bitten and stung by everything; I would rather
play catch with a Diadema urchin)
<Well-stated!>
Now you are expecting me to say it ate up my fish or 'stung' my coral right?
Nope it built up a tube and one night disappeared. I looked everywhere, Could
not find it (lots of rock), I didn't find any pieces, parts and it wasn't in my
filters, so I assumed it was hiding from the light (I have direct non-
obstructed supplemental sunlight on my reef). Weeks went by and no sign, during
this time I had added a lime green Euphyllia divisa to go with my brown one I
had for several months. For the next 4 days I watched a huge chunk of each
(starting with the super green one of course) being cut/melted off, the lines
were so clean the parts not affected were expanding like normal until the end.
Naturally I assumed the tube anemone was to blame but alas nowhere to de found,
I figured the new green one had an un-noticed bacterial infect, or something to
that nature. A few days later I was going out to dinner and happened to go over
to the tank and guess what? The tube anemone was all over my Galaxea coral!! (I
moved it where the frogspawn was) I went to save it from certain death, upon
closer inspection, the tube anemone was not just stinging it, the galaxia was
being digested! I have had lots of big sea stars and it reminded me of how
starfish feed, the tube anemone was literal coating the coral with digestive
mucus/enzymes via- the tentacles, how do I know? I could literally see the
polyps coated w/mucus melting before my eyes. I did save the Galaxea after a
good washing I only lost 15 or so polyps on it, I moved it to the other side of
the tank and put the tube anemone in a piece of PVC partially filled with sand
to help immobilize it. Well not two days after I moved the galaxia to its
original spot the tube anemone escaped its tube in the night and was back on top
the coral in the morning trying to finish the job. Ok I had enough almost $300
short on corals, this guy had to go so I moved the galaxia back over to the
other side of the tank and put the worm in the sand far away from the affected
coral, I was in the middle of tank maintenance (I have multiple tanks, fresh and
pond, terrarium, etc.) it was a couple hours before I could move the tube
anemone out of the reef, and guess what? Yep he was attacking the galaxia again!
(The galaxia lost a few more polyps but lived) I have since moved the tube
anemone into a swim tank with med-large critters, wrasse, trigger, Fiji devil
damsels, tang etc. I know the worm could look tasty to some fish, but the
potency of the sting and he is in a PVC tube I figured he would be fine, and has
been many weeks later not one piece missing from the tube worm he is loving
life, very healthy and firm (not flaccid and melting). I specialize in predatory
animals and this was absolutely (but costly) fascinating to watch, have you ever
heard of these animals being this actively predacious on coral?
<I have not>
I mean not just stinging and such but actively hunting a specific area, and then
following the coral to finish it off (nothing else was affected in his hunt). I
never did lose any fish, shrimp or the like to him, I feed varied liquid and
frozen foods I use lots of diced seafood for my rose anemones and other coral,
but the tube anemone has not taken anything I have physically given him other
than filter feeder foods. Any thoughts on this would be helpful.
Thank you for any input,
Daniel C.
<Am very leery of suggesting that folks keep Cerianthids period... this account
adds fuel to that fire... Thank you for sharing... Man! Something that not only
can withstand the sting of an Oculinid, but enjoys eating it! Cheers, Bob
Fenner>
