Loss of vitamins, SW  - 09/14/06
Hi WWM crew,
I have a question for you regarding activated carbon. Should I remove it when I dose multi-vitamins into the tank? If no, won't the activated carbon absorb the vitamins?  Thanks in advance.
Regards.
<Mmm... some... but if the carbon is more than an hour or two old... exceedingly little... More likely to be skimmed... Bob Fenner>

Lighting and feeding questions 7/12/06
Hello, I have a couple questions and was wondering if I could get your advice. First off, I have a 55 gal. reef tank that has been set up for about 9 months and it's getting time to replace the bulbs.  I currently have a pc fixture with 4, 65 watt bulbs, 2 are blue actinics and 2 are 12,000k daylights. I was wondering if you would suggest keeping the set up I have or using 4 50/50 bulbs. To me it would seem that either way would give me the same result, but I was wondering if you would see any advantages or disadvantages to these or a different set up all together.  I currently have some fish, some softies- (colt, shrooms, polyps), pipe organ, and a crocea clam.
<If you use all the same brand lamps, the effect should be roughly the same.  However, there is a great deal of difference between brands of lamps in spectrum, intensity and quality.  The animals only care about intensity (for the most part), so choose good quality lamps that provide you with a pleasing appearance.>
Secondly, I am going on vacation and need to feed my Banggai Cardinal who will only eat frozen Mysis. I want to try to get him to eat freeze dried shrimp so that I can put it in my automatic feeder while I'm gone. If I soak this food in vita-chem or Selcon and then let it dry, will it still retain the vitamin supplement, or does this product need to be fed when wet? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for you help and time!
<The question of whether these supplements would still be effective is moot in my opinion.  Soaking the food in the supplement and letting it sit is likely to lead to spoilage and/or the food becoming rancid. Even if you think you have thoroughly dried it, the humidity nearby to the aquarium will be enough to cause problems.  I strongly advise finding a reliable fish sitter while you are gone and leaving contact information with them. Best Regards.  AdamC.>

UV/Vitamin C/Lionfish Behavior - 03/02/06
Dear Eric
<<Hello Akila>>
Thanks for the advice.
<<Always welcome>>
I got hold of a 9W UV sterilizer and installed it to my main tank. Do you think this is good enough for the tank?
<<It can be beneficial to your FOWLR system, yes.  Do be sure to keep up on the maintenance of this devise.>>
I fix it to my canister filter's output & hope this will do some good for my tank.  Do you think this UV will increase the tank temperature to damaging levels?
<<no>>
I read so many articles that said Vitamin C supplement is very good for Marine Fish.  It's pretty hard to get hold of such at
the LFS.  So is it possible to use a Vitamin C supplement manufactured for Humans and soak or inject with food and feed fish?
<<Hmmm...ascorbic acid is just that, but I think the vitamin C supplements manufactured for aquariums are "buffered" differently from those consumed by humans (Bob, please feel free to interject here).  Under your circumstances I think it is worth trying, but keep an eye on your system's alkalinity.>>
Also my Lionfish seems to be doing well.  He eats very well and
seems to be free from any infection up to now (fingers crossed!!!).
<<Excellent my friend.>>
He doesn't swim a lot but, he stays in one place most of the day but swims a bit in the late evenings and early mornings but when he sees food he seems to be just fine and very alert.  Is this normal with Lionfish?
<<Typical behavior, yes.  These fish tend to "hide" during the brightest part of the day.>>
What do you think?  Is this something to worry about?
<<Not at all.>>
Appreciate your response
Thanks
Best regards
Akila
<<Very welcome, EricR>>

Additives  10/6/05
Hello, <Hello>
I have a 30 gallon saltwater tank that's 9 months old.
It has 20 lbs live rock with coralline algae of all colors growing very well. <Good>
I have a Coralife Aqualite lights (2x65W, 10000K and Blue Actinic).
I have one clown and a red-striped blenny, 10 Astrea snails, 10 blue-legged
hermits, 2 common hermits, a big, black striped brittle star (6in spread out -
disk the size of a quarter), a few tiny brittle stars,
and some random brittle worms and other kind of worms.  I have some nice
green star polyps that are propagating nicely, some zoanthids? (soft coral polyps),
Sargasso, green Caulerpa, and red fern algae stuff.  All of these are relatively small.
I have a powerhead and a hang-on-the-back-BioWheel-filter system (Marineland), and
I have two airstones.  pH is right around 7.9-8.1.  I do not have a way of testing
anything else, so this might be my problem.  Two weeks ago I stupidly added
a multivitamin to my tank on the suggestion from a website.
Several days later, the first of my three peppermint shrimp died, then the next day
the second, followed by a brittle worm.  The corals closed up and look kind of gangly.
I changed as much water as possible and cleaned the filters.  The last shrimp hung on, but died.
The corals look like they are slowly coming around but they still look bad.  I think the multivitamin did it.  Nothing else looks affected.  Other than not adding a multivitamin EVER
AGAIN, what can I do to help out my tank?  Are there any problems?  The brittle star spends a lot of time by the corals - is he eating them? <They are supposedly reef safe although I've read reports they may occasionally "nibble" on soft coral, but generally reef safe.  As to the vitamins, any possibility you OD'd?  Is this vitamin supplement one designed for marine tanks?  If not, then that could be a source of the problem your having.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks in advance, <You're welcome>
Armand from Georgia

Vitamin B12 06/09/05
Hi, I was wondering if it is ok with any fish to have the b12 in the aquarium?
<< Most of the on the shelf vitamin supplements for a reef tank have Vitamin B12 in them.  Bacteria is also a good source of B12.  What exactly is the benefit is really hard to determine but food is the main source >>
Thanks
George <<No problem EricS>>

Zoecon vs. Selcon
Hey guys, this is my first question. <Well, there's a first time for everything.> I have a couple more but I will check back later. I have read tons of the FAQ's and it has raised and answered a lot of new questions for me. I searched Zoecon I found you always recommended Selcon or 1 other the name escapes me. I have a Purple Tang with HLLE and have been soaking the food with Zoecon. Is Selcon a better supplement?  <I am not personally aware of any scientific evidence that this is the case, but there is no doubt that crew members seem to prefer Selcon. I have used Zoecon myself. No obvious ill effect. These are both HUFA supplements. There is evidence that these help with HLLE. The other product you are referring to is probably VitaChem, which is a vitamin supplement.>
I realize there are other issues with HLLE but I want to start with this. Also would it be best to move him into a QT tank for treatment or leave him in the main tank. It is a 55 gallon FOWLR he is 3-4'' and the QT tank is a 10 gallon.  <If no infectious/contagious process, then no need for QT. No medications in display tank. Vitamins & HUFA are OK. Other factors to consider are water quality, stressors, and actual diet. Zebrasoma tangs need lots of plant matter. You might want to consider obtaining & cultivating Gracilaria parvispora algae to feed your tang. Read more about "Tang Heaven Red" at www.ipsf.com. My Yellow Tang voraciously devours this stuff. Also there was an excellent 2-part article about HLLE in FAMA Magazine this past fall.>
Thank you in advance <You're welcome. Hope this helps. Steve Allen>
Walt

- Difference in Vitamin Supplements -
Hello to you all,
I'm so confused!  What is the difference between the vitamin supplements (such as Zoe) which seem to have a more complete range of vitamins, versus the ones (such as Zoecon, Selcon, & VitaChem) which have fewer vitamins, but amino acids and omega 3's? <Well, besides the obvious... I think some mixtures are simply marketing in a bottle, the range of vitamins are broad enough for use in human food, but in fact may not all be useful to a fish. The omega 3's, HUFAs (those are the amino acids) are typically from fish origin so they are actually quite useful.> I want one to add one to a mash that I'm making for my corals. <I'd skip this for the corals - just put some iodine in the food mix.> And what about for my fish food recipes? <I do add vitamins to my fish food... I've used Selcon, VitaChem, and Garlic Elixir which is actually more about the vitamins than the garlic.> Should I use the same additive?? <You could but really I'd skip the vitamins for the corals. They need other stuff - calcium, iodine, etc.>
Thanks so much for your time!  
... Gina
<Cheers, J -- >

- Get a Clue! -
Jason:
Just an FYI. HUFA stands for Highly-Unsaturated Fatty Acid. These are not amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins.
Steve
<My bad... you caught me. Thanks for straightening me out.
Cheers, J -- >

- Vitamin Switch-er-oo? -
hi there!!! is it okay to substitute human vitamins from fish vitamins? <I suppose that would depend on the ingredients of the vitamin supplement.>  any  hazards of doing this? <Absolutely, there's plenty of stuff that we put into our bodies that shouldn't be introduced into the tank. Kent makes a vitamin supplement called Zoe. It's pretty cheap, 100% tank safe, and comes with peace of mind! -Kevin> thanks

Re: Fish Food
I don't know if this is bob Fenner's site but I had a Q:
In his book "the conscientious marine aquarist " on page 145 he mentions using a liquid vitamin in his homemade food recipe. Do ya all know which brand I should use?    Tim.
<There are a few commercial brands of liquid (aquarium, though they're the same chemicals as for humans) vitamin preparations. My favorite of ones available in the U.S. are Selcon and VitaChem. Bob Fenner>

Marine-C
I was reading over the Daily FAQ and I noticed this question.  What jumped out at me was that he did not list pH and that he was supplementing with vitamin C.  When we used the Ken Vit C product in our tank to combat HLLE in a bicolor blenny, we noticed a fairly rapid drop in kH and pH (it is ascorbic acid :-/).  It might be worth testing the pH to see if it is fluctuating or just chronically low.  Just a thought, Laura
<Thank you for this... Vitamin C is otherwise known as Ascorbic acid... but is not really a "strong" acid, nor the amounts folks might add to marine (or even a well-buffered freshwater) system alter the pH noticeably. Surprising. Maybe the Kent product has some other acidic "carrier". Bob Fenner>

Marine-C
Hmmm . . .  Double-checked the package (it was still hiding underneath the aquarium amidst the dust) and the only listed ingredient is ascorbic acid at a concentration of 1250 mg/oz and it recommends 1 ml/50 gallons of water. It does, however, include a warning about monitoring the pH and alkalinity.
<Curious>
Might be something to write the manufacturer about.  It dropped our pH from 8.2 to 7.8 (the only other supplement being used at the time was straight liquid calcium).  Our favorite fish guy at the LFS said that someone else had experienced a similar drop after using the same product.  I might just e-mail Kent this afternoon and see what they say.  Would you be interested in the reply if I get around to it?
<Please do send this to us for posting. Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Laura

Re: Stocking a twenty long
I sent an e-mail to Kent tech support asking about the reason for the drop and other ingredients besides ascorbic acid.  I will forward the reply whenever I receive it.  Until then, I hope it's okay if I ask a couple of questions about my own tank (the whole reason I was on your site to begin with; I need to be shot for lending out my copy of TCMA ;)).  It is a 20 gal
long nano-reef that has been up and running for over two years.  Recently, we had some things happen and basically ignored the tank for 2 months.
<Oh...>
Between evaporation and Caulerpa die-off, I had a mess when I finally cleaned it up last week and we lost all inhabitants (BTA we've had for nine months, maroon clown, 3 hermits, couple of snails) except for a couple of hermits.  However, everything seems to be stable now and we are planning on restocking the tank after the holidays over a course of 2-4 months.  This will have given the tank 3 weeks or so to sit fallow (all water qualities are stable now) just to be safe.  Here are the tank stats: Prizm skimmer, Rio powerhead (the total per hour turn over is ~13x so we will probably add another ph), JBJ compact fluorescent hood (1 65-watt actinic blue and 1 65-watt daylight), 30+ lbs. of well-seasoned LR, 2.5" LS bed, Amm: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: near 0, Temp: 81 in winter, 82 in summer, Alk: 10 dKH, Calc: 340 ppm (going up), and pH: 8.2.
I would like your opinion on stocking the tank.  Here is what I would eventually like to have once the calcium level has stabilized around 450 ppm (all sessile inverts will be purchased at 3" or less and traded in as they grow too large): 2-3" of fish (I want a pair of Carpenter's wrasses,
<A bit too "jumpy" for such a small volume>
neon gobies, or Catalina gobies
<Not Lythrypnus... a coldwater species. Will attach article here>
and my fiancé wants a Firefish, so we'll see what we end up with), 6 blue-legged hermits, 6 snails (turbo, margarita, or Nerites), 3 peppermint shrimp, 1 cultured squamosa or derasa clam,
<In a twenty? I wouldn't do this>
1 star polyp , 1-2 corallimorphs, 1 Alcyoniidae or Nephtheidae, 1-2 feather dusters or Christmas tree worms, 1 Faviidae, and 1 small bunch of Halimeda (maybe).
I realize this is probably too much; what do you think is most likely to cause problems or will simply not thrive in this set up?
<What I have listed to leave out, I would. Bob Fenner>
Thank you so much for your time and expertise. Laura Lawrence

Marine-C
Here is the response I received from Kent.  Not very helpful.  We used the recommended daily dosage for about 5 days.  Did wonders for healing fins even though it did kill the pH.  I replied to this e-mail and will keep you posted if I find out anything else.  
<Thank you. Please do>
Thank you for the advice and informative article on the gobies!  Of course, the Tridacna was the invert I wanted the most, but I will defer to your *much* greater experience and stick with less challenging/demanding things for the time being.
<Hoping "Santa" brings you a larger system! Bob Fenner>
Happy Holidays!
Laura
Subject: Re: Marine-C
Hello Laura,
    No, Marine•C is simply a preserved solution of ascorbic acid; although the pH of ascorbic acid is relatively mild, we recommend on the label that it not be overdosed for reasons of pH drop.  I take it you added the recommended dosage and still had this problem?  
Kindest regards,
Chris Brightwell
Marine Scientist
Kent Marine, Inc.
1100 Northpoint Parkway
Acworth, GA  30102
v. 770.966.5200 x-18
f.  770.966.7848
www.kentmarine.com
(")}}}}}>{
For information on new Kent products, please visit our website at
www.kentmarine.com  
Would you like a chance to allow the world to see your aquarium?  If your aquarium is maintained with Kent Marine products and you would like to see it on our website, we’d love to hear from you!  Include information on type of aquarium, volume, filtration, lighting, supplements used, types of plants/animals, how long you’ve had the system operating, a list of all Kent products used, along with photos of the aquarium (digital only, please).  Due to time constraints, not every aquarium will be showcased, and all pictures submitted become the property of Kent Marine for express use on our website.  Please submit all entries and inquiries to
cb@kentmarine.com
From: NICK LAWRENCE
To: techsupport@kentmarine.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:49 PM
Subject: Marine-C
Hi,
I used Marine-C in conjunction with your Liquid Reactor product and noticed a significant drop in pH (from 8.2 to 7.8 in an established marine aquarium).  When I questioned someone at my local fish store, I was informed that others had had similar experiences with Marine-C.  What causes such a rapid and extreme drop in pH?  Is there something stronger than ascorbic acid in the product that would cause this?
Thank you for your time, Laura Lawrence

Knop supplements
Hi Di
Clams Direct is selling the supplements with their clam orders, and the question came up regarding dosing- If you are using a number of supplements, VitF, VitB, and Iron & Magnesium, how would you properly dose the system? wait an hour between product dosing? dose with all products at the same time? Please advise.
Koralvit Combi is a combination supplement for all aquaria, KoralVit F is a food, all others are single supplements that will be used on demand (e. g. iodine for plenty of clams in the tank, iron for tanks with plenty of macroalgae and for increasing the coloration in stony corals, iodine and strontium for increasing the growth of stony corals).
The supplements should not be mixed directly, but they all can be dosed at the same time, simultaneously or one after the other, without the risk of any chemical reaction.
Best regards,
Daniel

Vitamins
After the initial fumblings things are falling together really nicely, so I thought I'd get down to the fine tuning. I have seen a lot about vitamins for Marine fish and I was curious where it's best to get the vitamins and how best to apply them, or if they're even necessary.
<I really like Boyd's Vita-Chem (a vitamin supplement) and American Marine's Selcon (a fatty acid and marine lipid food additive).>
I figured all vitamins are the same, but I didn't know if the concentration of vitamins intended for human consumption was too high for fish consumption, I don't want to take any chances! I have started to use a blender mix with gelatin, it's just less than half carrots, lettuce, sometimes apples, whatever fruits/vegetable thing I have and then shrimp and bay scallops and sometimes crab if I can find it at the store, so should I still think about adding vitamins or is their diet ok?
<I would go ahead and mix in some of the above mentioned enhancers. I would also cut out most of the terrestrial plants and instead use marine plants and macroalgae. Sushi Nori (available at any Asian grocery) is excellent.>
I have seen some recipes with vitamins added but I don't know where to get them or how much to put in the mix. It is to be a fish-only tank and all of them will be carnivores, I just wanted to check if I should be trying something else! The new additions look healthy so far, but I intend to add a few more fish and I want to make sure I don't fill up my tank only to deprive them of necessary nutrition! Thanks for your time! Rachael
<Have a lovely weekend! -Steven Pro>

Bamboo shark Question (vitamins)
Bob,
I asked my LFS if they had any sort of shark vitamin, they suggested Kent
marine essential. I read the contents and saw that it contains, Inorganic
mineral salts of aluminum, boron,
bromine, calcium, chromium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, lithium,
magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, potassium, selenium, sulfur,
strontium, tin, vanadium, and zinc in a base containing deionized water and
EDTA.
<Mmm, not what you're looking for>
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they were wrong. You will be
happy to know I decided to consult with you first. I cant seem to find any
shark specific vitamins or water additives,
<Not necessary that they be specified for sharks... the metabolism of all vertebrates is about the same...>
do you know of an chain stores
that would carry this or any brand names I can call and ask for, I know of
ocean nutrition Shark formula, any others?
<Look for encapsulated (or make your own with store bought gelatin capsules) "baby vitamins"... and do conceal them in food items right ahead of feeding... and add a drop or two of an iodide supplement to the food. Brand not important. Bob Fenner>
Thanks a lot
Tom

Fw: Some Input for UK WWM surfers (Brand names here/there)
Hi Bob, not sure if you got this mail due to the server problems.
<Didn't get thanks>
Plus noticed that in the posted mail on the FAQ, Vitazin the supplement name
has changed to Vitamin. Definitely a Z, not an M though who knows why...
<Of all things, last night when MSN came back up, the spellchecker changed it to an "m" and I manually changed it back! Will alter. Bob F>
Thanks
Andrew

Some Input for UK WWM surfers (Brand names here/there... and a new mag!)
Hi Bob
thanks for the information about the Regal Tang, he is still in the QT tank and seems happier, getting more and more daring....even shows himself while he knows I am around now!
<Great. All good signs>
Anyway, the reason I am writing is to offer a little information which might be useless but I hope it helps someone. I am based in the UK and as with many things, the brands and types of equipment, medication etc that are sometimes discussed on WWM are not always available here.
<I understand... am friends with folks in the trade and hobby there, elsewhere... A real challenge to try and stay abreast of products>
One such thing is Selcon which I couldn't find anywhere, what I did find however was that a product called Vitamin which is available from Waterlife remedies. This is a vitamin and amino acids blend meant for fish which is supposed to be added to the water on a weekly basis (or something like that) however it would seem to be the perfect(?) thing to soak frozen/dried foods in prior to feeding. I have been using it for around 2 months now and the fish do seem a little more colourful for it.
<Yes... this is a very similar product to Selcon>
This can be bought from http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk who offer great discounts on dried goods of allsorts or even most LFS seem to stock the Waterlife products.
<Ah, good. Will post this note in various places on WWM for reference>
Secondly is a magazine which is the first dedicated Marine magazine in the UK ever. It is a bi-monthly production which is named Marine World, an excellent magazine full of interesting articles written by many different amateurs and professionals alike. I would recommend anyone to at least buy one copy (most Marine oriented LFS stock it now I think) or subscribe to it, the telephone number for subscriptions is 01254 238380 and it only costs £16.95 per year (6 issues).
<Mmm, do the folks putting the magazine out have a website as yet? I'd be interested in urging friends, associates to make submissions.>
Anyway, that's it!
Andrew
<Thank you for the input, lead. Bob Fenner>

Tangs/HLLE
I have a blue regal and a yellow eyed tang in two different aquariums, both have had HLLE for quite some time now. I have asked many different people on how to help clear this up and have gotten a variety of answers, most stating water quality, diet, live rock, electrical current in the water and vitamins. 
<many theories yes... none definitive. Diet is at least contributory... electricity is a weak argument. Live rock with lush macroalgae is clearly a help. Natural sunlight is perhaps the best solution of all>
I have tried just about everything I've been told to help clear them up. The blue regal has shown some improvement, however the yellow eyed has gotten much worse. (All of my other fish are in excellent health) They are both very healthy looking otherwise and are veracious eaters. 
<what kind of diet?>
I saw on your Q & A page about the use of baby vitamins, iodide and vitamin prep s. I have never heard this, what dosage would you use for the baby vitamins? I have 90 and 70 gallon tank. As for the iodide and vitamin prep s, I'm not sure what they are, where they can be found or what dosage to use. Is there anything else besides this that I can do? I try to do the best I can for my pets and any advice will be greatly appreciated, Thanks, Georgia
<the best way to dose vitamin supplements is in a prepared recipe to be ingested (much better than putting in the water). I like using the baby vitamins and Selcon (HUFA supplement... an aquarium product). Do use the Google search tool on this site and beyond to discover fish food recipes that suit your fish load (mostly herbivorous fishes). Making your own fish food is a great way to save money and offer high quality food to your fishes. Kindly>

Vitamins
should I be adding any type of vitamins to my water to keep the fish healthy and which kind should I add?
<Please read through the Vitamin FAQs file and the Foods/Feeding/Nutrition articles and FAQs posted on the Marine Index of WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner>

"Aquatic" Vitamins, reading WWM
Bob does the vitamin b12 have to be purchased from the vet or is their
other sources?
<Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/vitaminmarfaqs.htm 
You'd do well to use the Google search tool on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Vitamins, which do you prefer?
Hi Bob, quick question:
<I will give you a quick answer then.>
Which do you feel is better, Vita-Chem or Selcon?
<These are both wonderful products that are significantly different. I use both.>
I've been using the former and am wondering about Selcon.
<Selcon has some vitamins, but is primarily a supplement for unsaturated fatty acids. Vita-Chem is vitamins.>
Best regards, Manuel Alvarez
<You too, Steven Pro>

Shark vitamins
Bob,
Hey, long time no e-mail. Everything must be working (and for the most part, it is)!
Read in Scott Michaelıs book about a pellet vitamin recommended for sharks.
I think itıs made by Purina. Do you know anything about it? Do you know where to acquire it? Is the a Web site?
<Do know about administering vitamins to sharks... very common in public aquariums. Don't use Purina products. Sure whoever owns them now do have a website... recently bought out>
Right now, I soak my sharkıs food with a few drops of Zoe and Zoecon. He looks great, but I have a few patches of the red, velvety-looking algae forming on the top layer of sand. I think I read somewhere on your site that this particular algae can be caused by the vitamins in the water. The algae is very photosensitive ‹ it goes away almost completely overnight only to reestablish the next day. Itıs also more prevalent on the side of the tank that faces the window (thereby receiving additional ambient light) than the
side that faces an interior wall.
<Yes... a transient BGA/Cyanobacteria colony... increase Redox and it will disappear>
Iıve tried to combat it by directing more water flow directly at the sand bed. Itıs helped some, and itıll probably do better if/when I can upgrade that particular pump from 800gph to something in the 1,000 ­ 1,200gph range.
But I was also thinking the pellet vitamins would direct more nutrition directly into the fish and less to float randomly around the aquarium feeding algae. My shark is about 18² long, and not exactly what youıd call a picky eater, so I thought the pellet vitamin might be a good option.
<Yes... you can "sneak" other animal vitamins into its food... I would secure these from your/a veterinarian>
Also, any other suggestions regarding the algae would be greatly appreciated.
J.D. Hill
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Re: Baby Vitamin Administration
>How do I know how much of this to give them? Should I treat the food 
>with
>the same amount as listed for an infant?
><<Hmm, a "few drops" total (irrespective of food amount, size of 
>system)
>will be sufficient and no problem...>>
Ok, I have the baby vitamins:)
However, you neglect to mention how often I should add these few drops?
<You can add to the food daily (soak for ten-fifteen minutes) or directly to the water about once a week... very safe>
Thanks again:)
cj.
C.J. Moody
CASA
Kitsap County Juvenile Court Services
<Is this the same town with the Kitsap County Aquarium Society? I used to "scan" your periodical back in the seventies for the local SDTFS... Bob Fenner>

Re: Cichlid i.d., Vitamins, Iodide/ine
>>1 random cichlid [about the size of a convict]
>I would like to figure out what this cichlid is.
><Oh yes: fishbase.org The family cichlid is quite large... maybe 
>start
>with Spilurum, the various re-do's of the genus Cichlasoma... and a 
>very
>large pot of tea/coffee (to stay up late). Have fun.>
*Thank You*!! I may well find out what she is with this:)
<<Yes... a long, but fun search>>
><The same causative mechanism/s exist in both marine and 
>freshwater...
>lack of essential nutrients>
Can I overdose them on vitamins?
<<Yes, this is possible... not practically though...>>
><There are prep.s that are made/labeled for fishes et al. aquatics, 
>but
>the compounds involved are the same as for Tetrapods (like you and 
>me), so
>"baby vitamins" (liquids) will do...
Do you mean that I can actually buy baby vitamins for human babies and use
them??
<<Yes, the actual molecules are identical>>
> or pet-fish ones like Micro-Vit, Selcon... Add these to the food a 
>few
>minutes before offering.>
Yesterday I bought something called Hex-a-Vital, and it is a vitamin
product that specifies treatment for HLLE.
I can see a difference in one of them, but the other still looks fairly nasty.
<<This "curing process" takes weeks to months generally. Be patient>>
In this product is A, D3, C, E, Calcium Phosphorous and Calcium Carbonate.
There is no iodine.
<<I would find a source and apply it. Lugol's Solution will do, potassium iodide would be better>>
However, I know that table salt does have iodine in it. If I were to put a
few teaspoons of table salt in there, would this be a bad thing or a good
thing?
<<Better than nothing>>
I have always understood that iodine will kill fish, which is why one
should use rock or aquarium salt.
<<Hmm, much to say here... Iodine (the element) is indeed toxic... Iodide (same element, different valence state) is a way to supply this essential nutrient... not toxic in small concentrations>>
><Me too... do try the vitamins... they can/will effect a reversal at 
>this
>point. Bob Fenner>
I can tell there is an improvement.
You are a wonderful person, taking the time to work with me on this. Thank
you so very much.
cj.
C.J. Moody
<You are welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

Re: Cichlid i.d., Vitamins, Iodide/ine
I am sure I am about to drive you crazy.... but....
<<Mostly there already, no worries>>
>Do you mean that I can actually buy baby vitamins for human babies 
>and use
>them??
><<Yes, the actual molecules are identical>>
How do I know how much of this to give them? Should I treat the food with
the same amount as listed for an infant?
<<Hmm, a "few drops" total (irrespective of food amount, size of system) will be sufficient and no problem...>>
>However, I know that table salt does have iodine in it. If I were to 
>put a
>few teaspoons of table salt in there, would this be a bad thing or a 
>good
>thing?
><<Better than nothing>>
Sounds a bit ominous... Will track down some of the advised product:)
<<Ah, good>>
Thank you again:)
cj.
C.J. Moody
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Chromis viridis - blindness
Hi Bob,
Thank you for your prompt and informative reply. I will take your advice and
begin adding vitamin/iodide supplements to their food starting tomorrow. 
<Many folks have been astounded at the positive results of such application...>
I have recently altered how I feed them, so I imagine that the cause is indeed
due to a nutritional deficiency. This is unfortunate, and certainly
unintentional, as I was following someone else's advice to wean them down from
the 3-5 feedings per day to only a single feeding. Their argument, which still
makes perfect sense to me, was that because the Chromis are in a reef tank
which has a very healthy population of copepods/amphipods that they should be
able to find quite enough to eat. Perhaps I was trying to wean them too
quickly?
<Very possible. Many fishes are apparently much larger "creatures of habit" than folks presume.>
Again, thank you for your assistance! You'll be the proverbial
"first-to-know" if the treatment works.
<Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>
Best, Steve

Vitamin overdose?
Hi there,
Good day. Is it possible to overdose on vitamin enrichment products such as
Zoecon and Selcon?
Thanks, again.
Chia
<Absolutely speaking, yes, this is possible... most of the vitamin preparations have some of the fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E) that can be overdosed especially... but this is not a practical problem... it would take many times the recommended administration to overdose a system. Bob Fenner>

Re: Vitamin overdose
Thank you for the reply. I think I might not have stated the question
correctly. I use Zoecon primarily as food soak. Would I affect my fishes'
health by giving them Zoecon-soaked food twice a day?
<Ah, thank you for the clarification. No problem with soaking the food twice a day ahead of feedings.>
I apologize for the possible confusion.
Thanks.
Chia
<Clarity is pleasurable. Bob Fenner>

Re: My fish (vitamin prep. administration)
Bob,
an update. I treated the queen angel and the copperband with copper sulfate
(5drops in 4 gallons of water pulled from the aquarium) by letting them swim
in a solution for about 30-45min. They are clear as a bell now, no clouding
in the eye and or scratching going on. They are active and eating well. I
have done two 5 gallon water changes as well. 1/week.
<Very good news. Congratulations on your success>
You recommend a vitamin prep. ? which do you use and how do you administer?
<Per the manufacturer's directions... a few drops on foods to be offered a few minutes ahead of offering (no need to be any less vague here). Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Michael

Re: fish health/disease
Mr. Fenner,
Hello again! I managed to get 5.5# of cured LR which contained green, red,
purple, pink coralline and a red hairy algae ($4.5/#). The fish love it and
so do I. 
<Ahh, very good>
I have a 55gal so I figured this was a good amount to add at one
time. I hope to add another 5.5# ASAP. How long do you think it will take to
cycle?
<A few days, perhaps a week>
Also, should I expect the coralline to die off during cycling? 
<Not necessarily... if you have enough calcium, alkalinity... likely no die-off that's appreciable>
I don't test for ca/Sr/mg and I have a total of 70w of fluorescent lighting
(40w 20k day + 2*15w 50/50 blue/day) running 12hours.
Also, no Selcon anywhere. 
<What? Check with the e-tailers listed on the www.WetWebMedia.com Links pages... this is a great product sold by most all outlets...>
I purchased "homebrew" algae paste (to
soak/supplement food) and Seachem Iodide. Iodide directions say to add 5ml
every other day directly to the tank. Do you think this is
acceptable/beneficial?
<Yes>
As far as the heater goes, should I hold off? Do you think that raising the
temp might encourage the fin rot on the angel?
<More discourage with everything else improved, steady...>
Thanks for your input.
Gratefully, Jason Lockhart (LR junkie-in-the-making)
<Bob Fenner, already gone>