Bluejaw Triggerfish Male and female..  11/20/09
Hey there, got a quickie for you. Basically a QT question. Should I or shouldn't I.
<"When in doubt, keep them out">
My display tank is a 125 gallon reef ready tank. I have a MarineLand model 4 sump and a MarineLand 300 skimmer, works awesome by the way. I have 120 # 's live sand, and 140 # 's live rock. I have a 4" Blonde Naso tang,
<Will need more room in time, or perish>
3" regal tang, 2" juvy imperator angelfish,
<This also>
5" Foxface, a percula clown along with it's anemone,
<Which the Pomacanthus may well consume>
and a small Firefish, along with several snails, and crabs. I have a Colt Coral, Stylophora, mushrooms, and some polyp's. Tank is populated with copepods and other life... All parameters are good, nitrates stay around 5-10, water is at 1.024, temp. is 77.5-79, PH 8.0, do about 25 gallons a month for a water change. My question is that I just ordered a Male and Female Bluejaw triggerfish.
<Your system will be over-populated psycho- and physio-logically all the sooner>
My QT tank is a 29 gallon tanks with the same specs as my display. With live rock. Question is should I QT these two together in the small QT tank.
<I would, yes>
The last fish that I got was my Foxface and he didn't like it in there at all, he just stayed in a corner with his fins spiked up and all spotty colored.
<Good description>
He was very stressed and I thought I may be doing more bad then good. So after he was eating in a couple days, I put him in the display and he was fine. Swimming, and eating with the others. Will this be too small for the two triggerfish.
<Only experience can/will tell>
I know they are somewhat resistant to disease from what I've read, peaceful (For a trigger), and pigs... I am just concerned if I would do more harm than good by putting them in the QT or should I just put them right in the display, or QT one and not the other. What are your thoughts.
You've helped me out a lot in the past and I always read here first. But not a whole lot of info on the Bluejaw. Do you have any links for more info on them.
<Nope; but there is always the library of a sizable college>
Thank you so much for all your help.
P.S. My Foxface (very fat and healthy) constantly eats at the sand, and in always pooping out sand. I'm assuming she is eating algae that is on the sand, but is it normal for her to actually eat it and be pooping it out all the time.
<Is this a question? Yes? Yes.>
It's not bothering anything just wandering if it was normal behavior or not.
You guys (and ladies) rock. You are by far the superior research site.
Thank you much.
Aaron
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Restocking Following Bluechin Trigger Death – 07/02/09
I recently had a Bluechin trigger die suddenly in a 125g FOWLR that for over the past 16 months has also peaceably (no real aggression/predation) housed a 4” purple tang, 2” melanopus clown, 2.75” flame angel, 4.5” Foxface, Longnose hawk, neon Dottyback, pistol shrimp and a coral banded shrimp. Basic water param.s post-mortem checked out okay (8.3 pH, 1.022 SG, nitrate at 10, everything else at 0) and the other 6 fishes are still fine and eating a variety of frozen/flake/pellet food, although they’ve been a little skittish on a couple occasions lately.
<<This may or may not be related>>
This is the second Bluechin I’ve lost (first one died 12/28/08).
<<Perhaps the “source” of these fish is at issue here. By far, the best specimens for aquarium use will come from Hawai’i>>
Both had a similar demise – acting normally for many months, then suddenly one day hiding in the rocks and not eating.
<<I have seen this before, with this and other species…and suspect an internal parasite to be the cause. Unfortunately, by the time the symptoms manifest there is really nothing you can do at that point>>
However, the first one took 2+ weeks to succumb, while this one was dead in only 2 days.
<<Perhaps the one had a weaker constitution>>
I actually wrote to WWM in January about the first trigger death and I believe Bob said it could’ve been a parasite or something else entirely.
<<Indeed.>
In your opinion, does the current amount of livestock allow for adding another fish?
<<That depends on what you have in mind but, yes, I think so>>
And if so, what species would work, without killing/being killed?
<<There are probably quite a few possibilities if you think about it. Why don’t you work up a short-list of what you think you would like to add and then we can discuss>>
I decided against getting another Bluechin out of concern that I’m either not caring for them properly or my tank conditions just aren’t conducive to their survival.
<<If the Triggerfish had a place to retreat (this species can be quite shy and requires a place where it can feel safe), it wasn’t being harassed, and if it was eating well…the problem could well be the source/shipping/handling process these fish endured before you acquired them. Perhaps you merely need to look for this species elsewhere (and/or special order one from Hawai’i). Though changing vendors/the source for obtaining this fish is certainly no guarantee of success…but is worth a try>>
Conventional wisdom says that the fishes I’ve got now do poorly with conspecifics, right?
<<Very often this is the case, yes>>
For instance, avoid other tangs/surgeons because of the purple tang.
<<I’m not 100% with you on this. Being “established” for so long may be problematic, but you might get away with adding a Tang of a different genus. If you were to try this, my suggestion would be either Acanthurus japonicus or Ctenochaetus strigosus…both are hardy aquarium species that won’t get too large for your system>>
No other dwarf angels because of the flame.
<< I have kept multiple species of these fishes in similarly sized systems. I think there is a small chance you could introduce another dwarf of a different species here>>
Same goes for other Pseudochromis, Siganids, clowns and Hawkfish.
<<These are probably best left alone, yes>>
And the fact that these guys are all well settled surely makes it even more difficult.
<<Agreed>>
Would the 125g tank size (plus approx. 100lbs live rock) make a difference, pro or con?
<<Tank size and amount/quality of available “cover” always make a difference>>
Also, I enjoy the coral banded’s antics, so I wouldn’t want it to become a meal to a wrasse, hogfish or harlequin tusk, either.
<<Okay>>
I’m curious what fish (or invert) might be a good risk here…or should I just stick with what I have? I guess I’d be fine with that, too.
<<I have no real idea what you might be wanting here. Do a little research in to what you think you would like to add to the tank, and then come back with a list and let’s discuss the merits re>>
On another note, my light fixture is a 72” Coralife compact florescent with 2 96W 10,000K’s and 2 96W actinics. Is this adequate lighting for an anemone (specifically, a rose bubble tip)?
<<It is marginal in my opinion. Metal Halide lighting would be my choice/suggestion…but I think you could get by just replacing the Actinics with two more 10,000K bulbs…will be far better for an Anemone>>
Sincerely,
Chris
<<Regards… EricR>>

Re: Restocking Following Bluechin Trigger Death - 07/03/09
Thank you for your prompt reply, Eric.
<<Quite welcome Chris>>
The first Bluechin trigger was from LiveAquaria. I don't remember if it was of Hawaiian origin, but they seem to have decent quality livestock (my tang, angel, Siganus, and Dottyback were also purchased from LiveAquaria).
<<Ah yes, I do agree…one of the better vendors re>>
The second trigger was purchased at my LFS, and I admit their quality is inconsistent.
<<Likely taking what they can get-where they can get it>>
I did notice this trigger had slightly cloudy eyes when I first bought it, but since it was very active and eating well, I wasn’t concerned at the time.
<<Hmm…>>
As to adding another fish: The purple tang and the flame angel are definitely the "alpha dogs" of the tank.
<<I would think so>>
However, there are adequate caves/hiding places within the rockwork (2 structures on opposite ends of the tank) to prevent any serious bullying.
<<Does help…as does keeping everyone well fed>>
I'm also thinking of adding another 75+ lbs of live rock.
<<Do be careful not to overly restrict swimming/growing space>>
Your suggestion of the C. strigosus was one I considered before (also C. truncatus), but I’d read they were peaceful,
<<Mmm, relatively speaking maybe…don’t know that I’d class any tang as “peaceful”>>
and therefore might not be able to hold its own against the purple tang.
<<The purple Tang would likely “take-out” any other tang it had a mind to, regardless of the new addition’s aggressive nature…but I’m thinking a specimen of a smaller size and a different genus may have a chance. After the Purple lets it know who’s boss, of course>>
Alternatively, the A. japonicus you suggested would appeal to me, too.
<<A superb aquarium species>>
By the way, I looked on LiveAquaria and they identify A. japonicas as “powder brown tang” and A. nigricans as “white cheek tang”. At WWM, it’s the reverse.
<<Just goes to show the problem with “common” names…and why I try to not use them, at least not exclusively, when recommending fishes>>
I know Bob’s book says the white cheek is hardier, no?
<<A. japonicus, yes…not A. nigricans>>
With regards to angels, would another Centropyge say, acanthops, eibli, argi, or flavissimus be incompatible with the flame?
<<I have kept C. loricula and C. flavissimus in the same tank (and do consider the latter the best choice of those listed)…that’s no guarantee, but I think you would have a good chance for success re in your 6-ft tank>>
When you say small chance of introducing another dwarf, are we talking, like, 10% chance of success?
<<Mmm…upon reflection, I think I would give you a 50-50 chance here>>
Are there any Thalassoma sp. wrasses that wouldn’t be a direct threat to the coral banded shrimp?
<<Not in my opinion…at least eventually>>
In lieu of an anemone, I was contemplating soft and/or LPS corals in this tank down the
road as well, possibly as a test,
<<Would be better suited to your existing lighting>>
I could frag a couple from my coral tank and place it in the 125 to see if they get chewed by the Foxface or flame angel. Your thoughts?
<<There’s always the exception, but I have always found both fishes to be fairly well behaved re. Again…that “well fed” thing>>
Regards,
Chris
<<Keep me posted… EricR>>

Compatibility And Overstocking (env. dis.), Sargassum triggerfish 1/20/09
Hi,
<Hello Mark>
I have had my Sargassum Triggerfish (2") in my 55gal community tank (2 Percula Clownfish, Bicolor Blenny, Goldenhead Goby, Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse, Small Snowflake Moray) and it has been behaving normally as far as I can tell.
I have no quarantine tank setup currently since I have not had any fish die or become sick immediately after introduction.
<Mmm, you must roll 7's quite often.>
In his first week or so he showed some white spots and his fins also became a little tattered, however he
<he is the moray or triggerfish?>
didn't show much weak or abnormal behaviour and continued to eat whenever fed. The only strange behaviour I noticed was a bit of twitching which I am guessing can be attributed to the ich. Since then the white spots have totally ceased except for occasionally showing on the dorsal/anal fins and his behaviour, if anything, has improved as he is out swimming more often and is friendlier towards me when I approach the tank. The twitching has ceased also.
Aside from performing regular partial water changes and striving to maintain high water quality, I haven't done anything to try to medicate the trigger <OK, "he" is the trigger.>
and I am hoping that these symptoms are just the result of being introduced to a new tank and will go away on their own.
<Likely caused from environmental stress as your tank is too small for the amount and types of fish you have. This fish needs to be diagnosed/treated. Do read here and linked files above.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
And an index re diseases is provided here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm>
I was wondering if a fish, namely a triggerfish, could ever really recover on its own from fin rot (not sure if that's exactly what it was) and/or ich, or if I must medicate it in a QT tank to prevent my next fish (a Sohal Tang) from getting really sick and dying when I introduce it to the tank next month.
<Yikes, another fish! Do not do this, you are full now. If your trigger does have ich, it is very unlikely to recover from ich on it's own, especially with the stocking levels you have. This fish needs to be treated in quarantine. Right now you are risking the lives of the other fish keeping the trigger in your main display. The compatibility of the fish you have is not good.
Snowflake eels by nature are nocturnal hunters and can/will ambush and eat any fish it can swallow and can grow to 2' in captive systems. Much too large for your tank. The Red Tail Triggerfish or Sargassum fish is also aggressive and is not safe with small clownfish, Basslets, blennies, gobies, and the like. This fish can reach a length of up to 10", again much too large for your space. Sounds like you have chosen these fish based more on appeal rather than compatibility and space requirements. You would be much better of keeping smaller compatible fish in your 55 gallon tank rather than fish which can quickly pollute their environment and reduce their immune system which is low to begin with.
Learning more about fish and their requirements can all be found on this site. Research/learning needed, not impulsive buying.
Do start here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm>
Thanks!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Mark Harvey  

Crosshatch Trigger- HELP  9/29/08
I purchased three days ago a crosshatch trigger male. He is 6" long and has a very good appetite.
When he arrived I noticed he has white spots on both eyes and is twitching like trying to shake something off his face. I have him in a quarantine tank with a skimmer running BioWheel 1 piece of live rock and some pvc pipe for cover. I also have two powerheads for good waster movement inside a 35G tank. Anyway I was suggested it was probably flukes so I purchased some Prazipro.
<Mmm, not Trematodes>
It was suggested to do a freshwater dip.
<... not w/ replacing this fish in the infested QT>
I did that with temp adjusted and ph adjusted to match the QT. Anyway I proceeded with that for 4 minutes and placed him back in the QT. A couple of hours later I feed him and he ate lots of krill.
<Mmmm, not the best diet. I would NOT feed exclusively>
I then proceeded to do a half dose of Prazipro.
<No sense using half doses... are you seeking half a cure?>
We left to go to my in-laws and returned 4 hours later.
Upon return he was sitting on the bottom of the tank and wouldn't move. I became quite concerned and did a 50% water change added some carbon and turned the skimmer back on.
<Good moves>
Not supposed to use a skimmer with Prazipro. Today he is back out and about and eating well again but seems to be still showing symptoms of some kind of disease. Spots still remain in both eyes. I thought Prazipro was supposed to work well and not harm the fish but I am very hesitant to dose again.
Thanks for your insight!
Ian
<The "spots" could be "just" environmental... I would not treat for this/them alone... Could be parasitic/Protozoan... WOULD read on WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
Bob Fenner>

Sick Trigger (Xanthichthys auromarginatus) – 01/17/07
Greetings,
<<Hello!>>
First, I want to thank you for the work your doing helping us make insightful decisions.
<<Most welcome...truly a pleasure to share>>
I have a Blue Jaw Trigger, Xanthichthys auromarginatus,
<<Me too!>>
that has not been well for two weeks; it is very immobile, propping himself up on or over something continually.
<<Hmm, it's not unusual for this fish to occasionally stop roaming/peer out at the world from its favorite cave...but it shouldn't be lying around all the time>>
He has been eating, but only when fed directly and does not seek food.
<<Mmm, should be active/interested at feeding time>>
A couple of days ago he began spitting back out the large plankton, so I made a batch of food in the blender of: shrimp, oyster, clam, Selco, formula II, and daphnia; it is eating, but again only when basting directly toward his mouth.  The fish’s colour is about a six out of ten; there is yellow outlining the tips of the fins with a dark band on the body at the fin's base.
<<The yellow margin on the fins is naturally occurring on a male X. auromarginatus...but the dark band is possibly a sign if distress>>
Its distinctive dots and blue jaw are still clear.
<<Good>>
I QT’d the fish.  He was housed with a Sebae and its GSM since May (8 months).  The tank is too small; it is a 70-gal bow front and has four feet in front and back of the rockwork to swim with two or three nice caves underneath in which he'd sleep.  Many sites put the limits for this fish at 75 gal, and I knew Bob recommends at least 100 gal.
<<Yes...or larger>>
Occasionally needing to keep the money maker happy I ordered the fish.  There are no signs of trauma, or tumor.  Are these symptoms of small tank syndrome or something recognizable/treatable?
<<If the fish has not suffered some physical trauma, then this sounds to me like an internal protozoan infection (lethargy is a telling symptom here).  These are difficult to treat, and often by the time the symptoms manifest it is too late.  The fact the fish is still eating is a good sign and I suggest you try some foods post-haste made for treating internal parasites (New Life Spectrum has such a food).>>
My wife is a veterinarian having many medications/antibiotics available.
<<Then perhaps try soaking some thawed frozen food (mysis shrimp, chopped krill) with Metronidazole.  See here for information on dosages, cautions, etc. : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/metranidazole.htm >>
Lastly, I’ve read to moderate length about hyposalinity, and while probably not a cure, will reducing salinity ease fishes’ metabolic demands?
<<Though it can be of use in some situations (dips/baths), I am not a fan of long-term hyposalinity for the “stress” it places upon the fishes.  They have evolved to live within certain saline parameters, changing those parameters requires them to make adjustments/work harder to maintain their osmotic balance >>
I maintain a salinity of 35ppt.
<<Excellent...do keep it there>>
Thank you,
Robert
<<Good luck Robert...and please let me know how the treatment goes.  Eric Russell>>

Trigger Update... lost Sargassum  -11/27/2007
Good evening Bob & Crew,
<Mike>
Snowing here now, so feel good if you're diving in Hawaii,
<Was ayer... very nice... about 82F., clear... Neener, neener, neeeener>
or anyplace warm.
Alas, the Sargassum did not make it. Man, that's a few this year! Up until now I could have said that either another fish killed them, or I did, but I "think" this one was different. I could say I lost him, but in hind sight, I'm not sure I ever really had him. He was already slightly pinched in at the LFS, so I watched him for over a week. He was still active, alert, eating and seemed stable enough (although still pinched). I thought I would just have to fatten him up at home. No such luck and another lesson learned - "Buy ones that are already fat"!! (hmmm... where have I read that before?)
R.I.P. Sergeant Gas-em, and my nine year old son is no longer impressed with my skills.
<A hard, but necessary lesson>
After many hours (and hours... and hours - before, during and after) of reading WWM articles and FAQ's, at least this time I can't come up with a list of "would have, could have and should have" things that I missed (other than buying a fish that was thin, of course - everyone wants to be Mother Theresa in this hobby it seems- even guys).
<Mmm, yes. And we are neither infallible, nor immortal either>
The only thing I could come up with at all was if I had, perhaps, treated for the "possibility" of an internal parasite while in QT. I've often read that you should not medicate when you are not certain what you are trying to treat.
<Both approaches have adherents. There are VERY large facilities that treat prophylactically...>
There was no sign of weight loss while in QT and when he started to go south on me in the display tank, he went down in a hurry. By the time I really knew there was something wrong, I would have needed some dynamite and a crowbar to get him out of a hole in a rock at the bottom of the tank. I did manage to get him out the next day when he was lying on the substrate (when I e-mailed you - thank you for your response) but he was gone by the next morning. Is there such a thing as treating for internal parasites during QT "just in case"?
<Yes>
Is this ever a preventive measure?
<Yes>
Other than a freshwater dip, is there anything else that could be / should be considered as routine during the QT stage?
<Some folks use anti-protozoals prophylactically... some add Vermifuges... there are other protocols... but I'd rather not post them in this public address... for "fear" of encouraging others too much/inadvertently in pursuing such...>
Another reason I'm asking is I have a beautiful 2" Flame Angel (brilliant colour and not at all thin or with any signs of problems) in one QT tank with LR and sand - and another really beautiful specimen of a Copperband Butterfly (not quite 4" - spotless and as smooth as silk - alert and active) in another tank with LR and sand (after I read hours of material on the challenges of keeping this particular Butterfly prior to purchasing - I actually added a rock with Aiptasia on it to his QT tank as an experiment - now how crazy does that one sound?
<Not at all... are food for this species... used often enough as "chemical filters"...>
- another experiment of mine like QTing some fish with a cleaner shrimp to help distress them - hey, that one seemed to work - we'll see about this one). Just wanted to know if there is anything else I should / could be doing for these fish while in QT? I'd try soft music if I thought it would help.
<Might... at least calm you>
One last point, if I may. The Flame was a bit of a no-brainer choice in fish (mind you, only a no-brainer because I have your book and burn the midnight oil on WWM), but the amount of information available on your site regarding selection, compatibility, behaviour, disease, the feeding challenges etc., etc., "specific" to a Copperband Butterfly was phenomenal (forgive me but I have to admit to liking Anthony's trick of feeding the clam and then stuffing the empty shell after with prepared food the best - that is a great trick).
<Is an oldie, but goodie... Pre-dates Antoine, myself even!>
I have yet to find another resource (and I do look) that comes even close to what WWM has to offer. You just can't buy that volume of information on a single type of fish (well... you could read WWM and then donate through Amazon I suppose - ok, ok I'll make another donation - I'm probably due again anyway).
<Heeee! Thanks>
Just in case you need any more reminders that you are all doing wonders for this hobby, I originally just wanted a small freshwater tank with a few floaters and a couple of bubbles - then I read Bob's book and found WWM - and now I'm up to four established tanks (including QT) with Tangs, Angels, Puffers, Clowns, Hawks, Butterflies, Corals, and a host of other living things that I have to check my notes just to remember their names, not to mention enough equipment to land one of my tanks on the moon. I have referred quite a few people to your site and they are equally impressed - and strangely enough, some of their tanks are getting bigger too?!
<Madness, madness, I call it madness...>
It's not always easy (or successful), but it's always worth it - and you all help a great deal.
Thanks again, eh.
<Thanks again... you hoser!>
Mike from Canada
<BobF, in Kona>