Dwarf Gourami dilemma. Trauma; BGK incomp.        4/17/17
Hi WWM Crew:
<Hello Kimberly,>
I love your site, I've found a whole trove of fabulous information here. Thanks for all you've done.
<Thanks for the kind words!>
Houston, I have a problem. A little background, before I get into the current situation. You may want to get comfy, it's a long story. My husband is a rather amateur fishkeeper, although (with my research, albeit after the fact at times) he has become a lot more proficient. He's been fishkeeping for a little over a year, now. He's caught the "bug".
<Ah, yes, does happen!>
My husband has a few tanks. By a few, I mean 7. In a 38gal tank, he had 1 Dwarf Gourami (the fish I'm writing about), 11 Harlequin Rasbora (since moved to their own hexagon tank), 4 Corydoras Catfish, 3 Otocinclus, a few snails, a Bumblebee catfish (Asian, I believe, though has since been returned to the LFS), and 3 pot-bellied Mollies (moved to a 20gal with a Black Ghost Knife for some reason, I can't quite remember).
<Skeptical about keeping Mollies in what should be a soft (or at least not too hard) water community, I have to say.>
He uses a stocking calculator to determine whether or not his tanks are overstocked, so he can decide which fish he wants to get next, if he can. Here is where the story basically starts. He decided to get some Skirt Tetras, 3 rather flashy little guys, but they harassed the Gourami and nipped at his fins.
<Predictable. This handsome and lively species is rather better in groups of 6+ specimens, but even then, I wouldn't keep them with slow-moving fish. Much better with loaches, catfish, Danios, barbs and the like.>
My husband liked the Gourami better, so he transferred the Gourami to the 20gal tank, moved the Mollies into the 39gal tank, and returned the Skirt Tetras to the LFS. This took place approximately 8 or 9 months ago. So the Gourami and the BGK had a rather peaceful co-existence, the BGK would rub on the Gourami and they'd hang out together, never any aggression shown on the part of either fish.
<Yes; sufficiently dissimilar they shouldn't view each other as threats.>
Fast forward to 3 weeks ago. My husband likens the Gourami to E.T., with his long-ish face and the way he puts his feeler to the glass like E.T. phoning home.
<Indeed! Gouramis use their modified pelvic fins for all sorts of things. They're equipped with taste receptors as well as touch receptors. Often they'll "stroke" other fish, possibly trying to establish whether they're potential mates or rivals.>
The BGK (let me add that this BGK is the most unconventional BGK, apparently.. Doesn't display regular nocturnal behaviors, isn't shy in the least, is ultra curious about what's being done in his home, and is always out and about, regardless if it's night or day.
<Good!>
The Gourami was at the front of the tank, as we were standing there waggling our fingers at him, and out of nowhere, the BGK shot across, from the other side of the tank, and basically T-boned our poor little Gourami.
<Oh!>
Needless to say, the Gourami looked stunned from the impact, since the BGK has a nose like a 10-lb sledge. We have no idea what prompted the move, no previous signs of aggression, unless the BGK just wanted attention too. So my husband took the Gourami out of the tank, in the event that this was the end of their relationship, as it seemed to us that the BGK knew he had stunned the Gourami and wanted to hit him again.
<Odd. Do you have a breeding trap? You might reintroduce the Gourami into the tank within one of these devices. The Black Ghost might have been acting out of character, and a slow reintroduction, especially if you rearrange the rocks afterwards, could help.>
He placed him in a shallow cup, to float him in the 38gal tank, but since the initial move, my husband had added an additional filter. The cup floated over to the other filter, and spilled the Gourami into the main tank. I think the poor Gourami was still in shock, and being dumped rather unceremoniously into the tank probably didn't help matters. He kind of stayed near the top, near one of the filters, and that was the end of what I had witnessed that evening. My husband, however, saw our poor little Gourami dart out of control around the tank, and then basically crash nose-first into the sandy area of the 38gal. He took him out of the tank, and placed him in a fish bowl of water, because he seriously thought the fish wasn't going to make it, after that dive into the bottom. When I woke up the next morning, the Gourami was on the bottom of the bowl, curled nose to tail, and kind of hitching around his bowl.. it was so sad to see. Desperate, I took the bowl, removed most of the water, since he seemed unable to reach the surface, and basically manipulated the fish bowl so that the Gourami was shoaling(?) and able to flatten out. He still maintained a healthy appetite, and defecated normally.
<Promising.>
I did notice that when he would curl up, it was a fairly uncontrollable action, so I would force him to uncurl by shoaling him. He had some trouble with regular foods, so we gave him fry food that we have on hand now (we've had 2 molly broods that we were unprepared for), and he ate that with gusto. I also medicated him with Metronidazole, as one of his fins seemed to have some damage, and I didn't want that to develop into fin-rot, given his current state of duress. It seems though, that feeding him may have exacerbated his issue... or the fact that we were trying desperately to maintain him in a fish bowl, heated with a heating pad(he had some temperature inconsistencies due to the auto shut-off mechanism in the pad. We were able to maintain, for the most part, a temp of 79º-80ºF. We had a 10gal tank that was in the process of cycling, and once it was cycled, we essentially used that as the water supply for the Gourami. Herein lies the dilemma, now that you have an idea on what happened. The Gourami is currently in a cycled 10gal, partially planted, under-gravel filtered tank, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, Nitrate <20ppm(the substrate was stirred not too long before this testing) pH7.8, 78ºF.
<All sounds fine.>
We have eliminated, as far as we know, all possible causes for his issue. His swim bladder looks as if it were a blister about to pop. When I said he was curled nose to tail, he was literally almost bent in half. We thought his back was broken, for sure. We have fasted him, fed him peas, his tank currently has slightly less than a 10gal measurement of Epsom salt (it was the full measure, 2tsp, but did a water change today). His feces is normal, not stringy, and he has a healthy appetite! But that bladder... I itch to take a needle and pop it!.
<Very unwise. Once you break through the skin and muscle wall into the body cavity, you're creating a massive source of potential infection.>
So my question is, will this get better?
<All else being equal, yes. Gouramis are physoclistous fish. That means their swim bladder doesn't connect to the oesophagus, as it does on more primitive physostomous fish. Gas is added or removed by the bloodstream, and this is relatively slow. It may take some days, even weeks, for serious swim bladder trauma to be put right.>
Other than swimming on his side, and having that huge air pocket in his tail, he's an otherwise happy little fish.
<Which is good. Assuming he doesn't have a bacterial infection, he should heal up nicely if he's active and feeding.>
Responds to us, keeps trying to swim to the bottom of the tank. The part of his bladder that has become distended is on his right side, and protrudes above the surface, although he does dip under to wet it, and I take a turkey baster (he just LOVES that, for some reason) and I pour water over him. I've searched your site for an answer to this problem, and I've searched for a long time through other sources, and I've found basically nothing that addresses this, other than CAR fishing tips about "barotrauma". I did find one brief article on WWM about another person who saw his fish doing the same curling tail-to-nose thing, and I feel that my question may have already been answered, in that hopefully this will resolve itself in time and on its' own,
<Yes, that's the only option here. Physostomous fish can "burp" out air from the swim bladder because there's a connection between it and the oesophagus. Not an option here, because Gouramis don't have that connection. Any excess gas (if that's the issue) will have to be carried away by the bloodstream.>
but a definitive answer about this issue would be greatly helpful and appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Warm regards, Kimberly.
PS. The BGK is only 3" long. My husband admonished me after I sent you the last mail, that you would think he's keeping a little dwarf Gourami with a full grown BGK. Both fish are of a similar size, so we're not that crazy.
<Understood. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.       4/17/17
Hi WWM Crew, Neale:
I can't thank you enough for your prompt response. We're 3 weeks into hoping and praying the Gourami gets better, I shall keep you updated on the matter. And thank you for basically telling me his swim bladder isn't going to rupture. I had thought about carrying him to a vet and having them aspirate the swim bladder since needles and syringes aren't what I usually keep on hand with our fish meds.. but thank you for reassuring me a rupture won't happen. The only reason I haven't satisfied my itch to pop that "blister" is solely due to the fact that I'd be introducing a whole host of problems(no pun intended) for my already distressed little guy. So no worries there, Crew!
Neale, thank you for your reply, and easing my mind a bit that I'm doing everything I can possibly be doing at this point and time.
A side-note about the mollies; we have one LFS in our small town, and our town is famous for notoriously hard water. I do not know if they had been acclimated before hand, and we know the difficulty with trying to soften hard water. The RO we get from our grocer tests at 6.4pH. My husband had been mixing RO and spring water, in about a 70/30 ratio RO to spring so as to try and keep a more neutral balance; he's even got driftwood pieces trying to help with that.
All in all, the mollies are thriving for it being a bit too hard, but we also know they like it a bit brackish, so we do help them out there, if we can't make the water as soft as they might like it. We're working on it, though. It may take a while of only RO water for weekly water changes, but it should gradually lower so that it's more to their liking.
At the very least, our buffering capacity is good, so there won't be any huge swings in pH as we get to that goal.
Oh, just for fun, here's a list of my husband's 7 tanks with current stock:38gal: 11 neon/cardinal tetras, 6 Corydoras catfish, 4 scissor-tail Rasbora, 5 Otocinclus various snails, planted.20gal: 1 BGK; planted18gal Hex: 11 Harlequin Rasbora; planted
10gal #1: 4 pot-bellied mollies, 3 female, one male; planted
10gal #2: Hospital tank, low flow undergravel that houses my poor Gourami; planted
5gal: South American Crayfish(?); planted
5gal#2: Another crayfish2.5gal: Juvenile Molly (possibly Sailfin, or pot bellied; one of our previous mollies had given birth, and sadly, Speck, because he only looked like a speck is the only one left); planted.
Breeder tank: An Endler's Livebearer fry that I got as a bonus with some of the aquatic plants I purchased. And last, but not least, and yet to be set up: 75gal, future home of the BGK and various other fish, I'm sure.
Okay, so I can't count.. that makes 8 tanks, not 7. I wasn't thinking on the breeder tank, since it's attached and filtered through the 10gal hospital tank.
Have a great week!
Thanks again, Kimberly.

Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.    4/18/17
Hi WWM Crew, Neale:
I can't thank you enough for your prompt response.
<Welcome.>
We're 3 weeks into hoping and praying the Gourami gets better, I shall keep you updated on the matter.
<Good oh!>
And thank you for basically telling me his swim bladder isn't going to rupture.
<Not sure I said that! Can happen. But unlikely, and there's nothing much you can do either way. But yes, any surgery at home would make things worse, and chances are it'll fix itself -- over time.>
I had thought about carrying him to a vet and having them aspirate the swim bladder since needles and syringes aren't what I usually keep on hand with our fish meds.. but thank you for reassuring me a rupture won't happen.
<I've never seen it in aquarium fish, anyway. The photos you see of marine fish (usually) with their swim bladders massively expanded, often poking out their mouths, are examples of physostomous fish unable to 'burp' out the gas when brought up from deep water. As pressure decreases, the gas in the bladder expands. Physostomous fish can burp it out, but more advanced fish can't. Since aquarium fish aren't kept under pressure, this problem doesn't exist.>
The only reason I haven't satisfied my itch to pop that "blister" is solely due to the fact that I'd be introducing a whole host of problems(no pun intended) for my already distressed little guy. So no worries there, Crew!
<Cool.>
Neale, thank you for your reply, and easing my mind a bit that I'm doing everything I can possibly be doing at this point and time.
<Glad to help.>
A side-note about the mollies; we have one LFS in our small town, and our town is famous for notoriously hard water. I do not know if they had been acclimated before hand, and we know the difficulty with trying to soften
hard water. The RO we get from our grocer tests at 6.4pH. My husband had been mixing RO and spring water, in about a 70/30 ratio RO to spring so as to try and keep a more neutral balance; he's even got driftwood pieces
trying to help with that.
All in all, the mollies are thriving for it being a bit too hard, but we also know they like it a bit brackish, so we do help them out there, if we can't make the water as soft as they might like it. We're working on it, though. It may take a while of only RO water for weekly water changes, but it should gradually lower so that it's more to their liking.
<Bit confused by the above. To be clear: Mollies like hard water. If you have "liquid rock" it's probably fine for them as-is. No need to add salt, provided water quality is good. It's in softer water (anything less than 10 degrees dH) and especially acidic conditions (anything below pH 7) that the addition of salt is essential. Adding salt also helps Mollies deal with high nitrate levels, which are commonly encountered in cities or places with a lot of agricultural run-off.>
At the very least, our buffering capacity is good, so there won't be any huge swings in pH as we get to that goal.
<And your fish thank you. To a large extent, fish prefer stable, if not "ideal", pH levels compared with somebody faffing about with buffers to get the "ideal" pH but creating unstable conditions.>
Oh, just for fun, here's a list of my husband's 7 tanks with current stock:38gal: 11 neon/cardinal tetras, 6 Corydoras catfish, 4 scissor-tail Rasbora, 5 Otocinclus various snails, planted.20gal: 1 BGK; planted18gal
Hex: 11 Harlequin Rasbora; planted
10gal #1: 4 pot-bellied mollies, 3 female, one male; planted
10gal #2: Hospital tank, low flow undergravel that houses my poor Gourami; planted
5gal: South American Crayfish(?); planted
5gal#2: Another crayfish2.5gal: Juvenile Molly (possibly Sailfin, or pot bellied; one of our previous mollies had given birth, and sadly, Speck, because he only looked like a speck is the only one left); planted.
Breeder tank: An Endler's Livebearer fry that I got as a bonus with some of the aquatic plants I purchased. And last, but not least, and yet to be set up: 75gal, future home of the BGK and various other fish, I'm sure.
Okay, so I can't count.. that makes 8 tanks, not 7. I wasn't thinking on the breeder tank, since it's attached and filtered through the 10gal hospital tank.
<That's certainly quite the handful of fish!>
Have a great week!
Thanks again, Kimberly.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.    4/18/17
Hello again, Neale.
It's my day off, which is why I'm monitoring my emails for your responses, and why mine come back so quickly.
I must apologize, I was confused about your initial comment on being skeptical regarding the mollies in what should be a softer water environment.
<Fair enough!>
I was a dummy, and didn't realize you were discussing the 38gal with the tetras.
<To be honest I kind of lost track... and simply offered plain advice for each type of fish. I'll let you deal with accommodating them as necessary!>
I have been informed by my husband that was the reason he moved the mollies to their own tank in the first place, because he read on your site that they like harder water.
<For sure. In the wild come from coastal areas for sure, even coastal marine habitats, albeit in very shallow, few-inches-deep water around harbours and mangroves. But Mollies also be found, and probably no less abundantly, hundreds of miles inland, though usually in places with a limestone geology and fairly hard water.>
As far as not telling me it wouldn't rupture, based on what I've read of comments in the past to your other readers, I assumed that if it was a probability, you would have said something. I notice you all don't mince words when it comes to the safety of the fish, and rightly so!
<More my English sense of humour than anything else... but yes, sometimes does come across a bit dry!>
Again, I can't thank you enough; you and your crew have provided priceless information (and a way to discuss a problem!) for all of us newbies in the aquarium hobby.
Cheers, Crew! Kimberly
<We're happy to be here. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.    4/22/17
Hello Neale, Crew.
<Kimberley,>
An update, or an interesting development about my Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia). My husband thinks that the Gourami's side has split, due to the pressure of the gas in the gas bladder, and that the gas bladder is actually protruding. Herniated, I guess I should say.
<Doesn't sound good, anyway.>
Parameters:10gal
A=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate= <5ppm (planted tank, undergravel filter)
pH7.6
temp 79ºF
Again, he eats and he poops.
<Which are both good signs.>
I have recently begun to create sort of "hyperbaric chamber" (it's really not) by inverting a glass bowl over him with an air pocket and some Frogbit for company. The bowl is not sealed, and is setting on the bottom, with the undergravel filter doing its' work. The bowl is not sealed, and as yet I have not medicated him for anything, because there is currently not anything to medicate for.
He was in the "chamber" for 6 hours, and I noticed when I released him to the top of the tank, gently, of course, to feed him, his gas bladder had seemed to have shrunk..
<Interesting.>
however, being at the top seemed to re-inflate it. For the first few minutes of being out of the "chamber", he continued to swim, not at the top, but actually getting down into the tank. And then it was feeding time. I know that the air pocket in the bowl will be warmer than the atmospheric air and will not evaporate, leaving the air in the pocket moist, and there is the Frogbit for oxygen exchange.
<I wouldn't keep any labyrinth fish isolated from the air for too long; they can drown. But raising the aquarium temperature a couple degrees will warm the air immediately above the tank, and that might replicate the warmer, damper air that you think might be helping here. I can't imagine the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the tank are enough to 'squeeze' a swim bladder sufficiently, so it's hard to say if what you did is actually the reason for the improvement. By all means carry on, but with the understanding that Gouramis do need (replenished, oxygenated) air to breathe, or they drown.>
If you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated... I don't think there's anything more I can do at this point. Especially in regards to the possible split in the skin, and the apparent herniation of the gas bladder. I forgot to add: He's not stressed, and eats with gusto still. Still behaving as normal as can be, despite his apparent handicap.
I put him in the "chamber" to try and acclimate him to the pressure at the bottom of the tank, and hopefully kind of "force" an equalization of the gas exchange from bladder back into the bloodstream. He seems to enjoy it, for all that he can't really swim anywhere anyway.
<Indeed.>
Thanks for all your help.
Warmest regards, Kimberly
<Good luck with your medical endeavours here! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.       4/23/16
Hello Neale, Crew:
I appreciate your quick response, Neale. Prompt as ever!
<Welcome.>
However, my main concern about this poor little Gourami wasn't really addressed, and that is: what's your advice on the herniated swim bladder?
<None; there's nothing practical you can do, unless you're a vet, in which case you'd be more qualified than me to answer. All you can do is wait (and hope) for a return to normal function. Antibiotics as you're using them can
help if there's an infection there, but the swim bladder is not really something that can be otherwise treated. In physoclistous fish it's a sealed bag inside the fish, and empties or fills as determined by its blood supply and the needs of the fish. It's far too delicate to be manipulated by the fishkeeper, and even the slightest force will burst it. On the other hand, there's really nothing much to go wrong with it either, since it's basically a hollow bag. If it's 'overblown' the fish will, slowly, reabsorb that gas, and the bladder can return to its normal size.>
He's been okay in the inverted bowl at the bottom, with air inside and Amazon Frogbit. In fact, he actually looks a lot more calm, and seems to enjoy being there. I know, him being a labyrinth fish, he needs atmospheric oxygen, and the longest time he's been under the bowl so far is 7 hours with no adverse effects. In fact, he's swimming at the top of the tank, trying to get back down as I write this.
<Cool.>
Again though, my main concern is the herniated swim bladder.
Just wait and see?
<Yes.>
Medicate in case something crops up?
<Only if you perceive a bacterial infection treatable with antibiotics.>
I know he's not suffering, per se; he has no stress stripe, is color is good, he's not clamped, not gasping for air, very responsive to us people.
(Loves the turkey baster, for some reason.)
<Fish can, do adapt to life without a swim bladder. But as I say, there's nothing really you can do about it either way.>
I apologize for being a pest, but there is *literally* zero information on herniated swim bladders in ornamental fish.
Thanks in advance, Warm regards, Kimberly
<Just keep doing what you're doing, Kimberly. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Dwarf Gourami dilemma.      4/24/17
Hell again, Neale.
Your reply has greatly increased my hope! I appreciate the advice, my concern is forever first the quality of life that he may have, handicapped or not.
<Understood.>
I can't imagine adapting to the way he's swimming, but I don't have the heart to euthanize him, since he doesn't really seem too handicapped by it.
<In which case there's no need to worry. Since this is an injury of some sort, it's not like we need to remove bad genes from the gene pool -- the main reason people euthanise fish that are weakened or deformed in some
way. If the fish adapts, he's like those dogs you see with a missing leg.
Handicapped perhaps, but not suffering, and in the right situation, a perfectly viable pet.>
He's such a spunky little guy! We have what we've dubbed the "Happy flop".. When he sees us, he flops around on the surface with his dorsal fully erect, and seems as happy as a clam.
<Cool.>
I can't tell you just how invaluable your site is; almost every possible scenario is encountered, and each one is anecdotal to us all. High praise for the Crew; you've all done a marvelous work here.
<Thanks for the kind words. It's why any of us here volunteer.>
Have a wonderful day! Regards, Kimberly
<And you enjoy your day, too. Neale.>