FAQs on Freshwater Social Disease
Related Articles:
Freshwater Diseases,
Toxic Situations,
FW Disease Troubleshooting,
Ich/White Spot Disease, Choose Your
Weapon: Freshwater Fish Disease Treatment Options
by Neale Monks,
FAQs on Freshwater Disease:
Freshwater
Disease 1, Freshwater Disease 2,
Freshwater Disease 3,
FW Disease 4,
FW
Disease 5, FW Disease 6,
FAQs on Freshwater Disease by Category:
Diagnosis,
Environmental, Nutritional,
Trauma, Genetic,
Pathogenic (plus see Infectious and Parasitic categories
below), Treatments
&
Aquarium
Maintenance, Freshwater
Medications, Freshwater
Infectious Disease,
Freshwater Fish Parasites,
Ich/White Spot Disease,
Nutritional Disease,
African Cichlid Disease 1,
Cichlid Disease,
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Our fish are dying! Help! 8/21/12
Good evening! We searched your website and were unable to find an
appropriate article so we're hoping you can help us with our email. We
have a 15 gal tank, fresh water that's established and been running for
about 6 months now. We do a 25% water change every other week
and do
frequent water tests (always in range). But in the last week we've lost
3 fish (2 female Mickey's and a Zebra Danio) and 1 medium sized ghost
shrimp. The 2 male Mickey's have become reclusive in the last week too.
<Mmm, something... toxic going on in the tank here... from inside or
out... e.g. an ornament, mean tankmate... the tank being sprayed w/ an
ammoniated cleaner, being placed too near a kitty litter box... >
We currently have 3 Zebra Danios, 3 guppies (we can't remember what
kind), 1 ghost shrimp, 1 catfish, 1 male Sunburst wag, and the 2 male
Mickey's.
Everyone was happy and social until last week. We noticed that the
female Mickey's suddenly became anti-social and were hiding on the
bottom for a few days before they died. The Zebra Danio appeared fine;
until we found it dead tonight. Two of the guppies have "torn" tail fins
also. We've used CopperSafe twice
<Toxic... should have killed the shrimp outright>
in the last 2 months and use the aquarium salt
<Not a good idea either>
and water conditioner @ water changes and change the filter every 30 days.
We also have a slight abundance of small snails. We had an algae
eater
<?! What type? The common Chinese Algae Eater is a killer... See WWM re>
that grew really fast so we moved him into another tank about 2 weeks ago.
We're at a loss. We hate seeing our fish die. With the exception of the
catfish, shrimp and the algae eater...we brought home all the fish at
the same time. We've had the others for several months now too. Any
suggestions?????
<To keep doing the water changes, skip the salt and copper, read re the
CAE (and remove if this is Gyrinocheilus). Bob Fenner>
Crayfish, cichlids; health ... English... "Buttons are
not toys" 7/31/08 ok so I have had
my electric blue crayfish for about 5 months now. he's appx.
5 inches long. <Cool. Now, make sure you don't keep him
with any fish.> doing well until I accidentally introduced a
seemingly well cichlid into the tank. <Oh dear.> he blew up
and died about a week ago. I think the Cray may have eaten it!
<Well, fish don't "blow up and die" for no
reason. Crayfish can catch living fish and eat them, and they
certainly will consume fish that are sick/dead for other
reasons.> he's pretty lethargic now and he sits cocked up
to one side and his legs on top just sway back and forth. he
really wont eat and I know he's dying. is there anything I
can do?? <No information here to work from. How big is this
tank? What filter are you using? What is the water chemistry (at
minimum: the pH)? What is the water quality (at minimum: the
nitrite concentration)? Almost certainly water quality is an
issue, if not THE issue.> pet smart gave me 'gel Tek'
'ultra cure PX' <Pointless, unless you know what's
wrong and how you cure it. Since you have no idea what the
problem is, how can you treat the animal?> they said it would
be ok for him to eat too, but he really wont. and now my other
cichlids are getting blown up looking too. <Ah, definitely
water quality.> I noticed when the other cichlid died her
scales were like coming up. don't know if any of that helps,
but what can I do to save my Cray and my cichlids!??? I know by
the way everyone looks I don't have long! thank you!
<I'm assuming this is an overstocked, under-filtered tank,
quite possibly with the wrong water chemistry for the species
being kept. Without names for these cichlids, it's impossible
to say what conditions they require. Some (e.g., Mbuna) need
hard, alkaline water. Others (e.g., Severums) need soft, acidic
water. All cichlids need spotlessly clean water with zero
ammonia, zero nitrite, and ideally as little nitrate as possible,
certainly less than 50 mg/l. In any event YOU CAN'T MIX
CRAYFISH WITH FISH. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: crayfish, cichlids; health 8/2/08 well the cichlids
are African Kribensis, and I've had them since birth. still
have the parents in a diff tank. the water is fine, for all,
checked it over and over. <If you say so!> the cichlid I
introduced was already sick, I know that, now) and when he died,
the Kribs ate it and I think so did the crab. <Letting fish
eat dead fish is asking for trouble. Many diseases are spread
that way. Remove fish as soon as they die, and ideally isolate
them when they're sick.> they were all fine till about 3
days after the Wal-Mart fish died. he seems to be fine with my
fish, I've never seen him raise a claw to them. not that it
wont or cant happen! <Indeed. Many cichlids become territorial
only once sexually mature, which may take 6-12 months, depending
on the species.> I am well aware of that. so total in the tank
I have 2 cichlids, and 5 small tetras, and the Cray. the cichlids
are still juvenile, only about an inch and a half. all were fine
until I put the seemingly fine Wal-Mart fish (which I didn't
buy, a friend did.) in. <If you can't quarantine new fish,
then you should be very carefully about selecting additional
livestock -- so accepting fish from friends really isn't a
good idea.> I have a 50 gal tetra filter, with two filters,
and a 20 long, which will soon be a 30 long. I know I need at
least a 50, but funds are low right now. there's plenty of
room for them, the Cray doesn't seem to mind, he's
usually busy and healthy, molted about 4 times successfully.
<Seems as if you're aware of the potential problems but
depending on luck. While we've all done that one time or
another, it's hardly the best strategy.> its definitely a
sickness from the Wal-Mart fish. <Why do you say that? Post
hoc ergo propter hoc? Unfortunately, there's no guarantees
that just because you've _added_ a new fish, the aquarium has
_developed_ problems because those new fish were sick. While it
can happen, it can also happen that the additional fish overwhelm
the filter, or break up the social structures, or a variety of
other possibilities.> I think by eating the dead sick fish
they got sick. <OK, if you say so. Can't say I'm
convinced.> the tetras I don't think ate any because they
are fine and I'm sure the cichlids didn't let em get to
eat any of the dead fish. <Hmm...> I noticed though that
the cichlids scales look funny too. this just started. they seem
to be itching on the rocks. no ich though. can you think of
anything??? <Many things. If they're itching themselves,
then Ick/Velvet are both possibilities, and both can make a fish
sick *without* obvious external symptoms, because both diseases
attack the gills before the skin. If the fish are breathing
heavily, for example, as well as itching, that's a good clue
that Velvet is in the tank. Saying the "scales looks
funny" doesn't help much. Are we talking excessive
mucous, making the body look cloudy? That's usually a water
quality/water chemistry issue. Are the scales sticking outwards,
like the scales on a pine cone? That's Dropsy (oedema) a
symptom of a variety of things from internal bacterial infections
through to inappropriate use of "tonic salt". Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: crayfish, cichlids; health 8/2/08 ok so I'm not
god, I don't know for absolute sure that the Wal-Mart fish
did it but here's my evidence... got 2 cichlids (don't
know what there were, just they were yellow.) <Likely Yellow
Labs, Labidochromis caeruleus. A smallish, fairly well behaved
Mbuna.> kept em quarantined for month and a half. one got fat,
and died. <Right. If this happens *in the quarantine tank*
then you obviously don't put the survivor into your display
tank. You run through all the possible diseases, or ideally, and
what I would have done, you take them back to the store. This of
course assumes the water conditions in the quarantine tank were
appropriate to the species in question. For a Mbuna, that would
mean hard, alkaline water with zero ammonia/nitrite, and low
levels of nitrate (less than 20 mg/l if possible). There is
*absolutely* no point quarantining in a tank that isn't
cycled or doesn't have an appropriate chemical filter to
remove ammonia directly. You can't just stick in a new filter
and hope for the best. If new fish are exposed to a cycling tank,
OF COURSE they're going to get sick and die. You may known
this, but I'm just putting this out here fair and square so
other people reading this can understand things.> thought it
was because of the water, they were in with goldfish, I know, but
it was the only thing I could do at midnight (drunk friends do
dumb but thoughtful things). I wasn't going to risk putting
em in my good tank. not fair for the goldies I know, but what
else could I have done??? <Hmm... no idea.> so when one
yellow fish died, after being fine for a month I figured it was
indeed the water. <Why "the water"? Think about this
logically for a moment. Fish live in water. They like water. So
why would water kill them? There are really only two ways that
water *conditions* can kill them -- either the wrong chemistry or
poor water quality. Pick and choose. If 50% of your new livestock
die, then your plan of action is firstly to see if the
environment was right. At minimum, you check nitrite and pH. In
the case of Mbuna, you'd need zero nitrite and a pH around
8.0. If this tested fine, you would then look for possible
symptoms of disease. But you would absolutely NOT move the
remaining "healthy" 50% into the show tank until
you'd at least checked off all the possible diseases and
perhaps treated proactively.> so I moved the last yellow
cichlid to my good tank in hopes it wouldn't die too. after
about a week he did die, at night. <I'm concerned that
these "mystery yellow fish" are Mbuna, and you're
exposing them to completely inappropriate water chemistry and
quality. Just to reiterate, Mbuna need water with a high level of
carbonate hardness and a high pH. Adding "tonic salt"
will not work. Kribs will tolerate -- but don't appreciate --
such conditions, and South American cichlids will be positively
stressed by them.> nothing I could do. by the time I woke up
he was already being consumed...I'm not depending on luck,
but I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.
<We've all been here. Which is why I'm stressing
research and water chemistry/quality so strongly. You have very
little scope for error and seemingly no Plan B, so you have to
get things right first time. This demands a slow, methodical
approach rather than hoping for the best. In other words,
carefully identify all your livestock. Write down what conditions
they require. Determine whether you can provide those conditions.
We can help with all of these things. But so too will a good
book. Libraries are full of them.> I did not ask for these
fish nor did I want them. like I said drunken present at
midnight. not something I would have ever done. didn't need
any more fish. now, the velvet thing sounds like what I have. a
lot. would this cause my Cray to be sick too?? <Crayfish
won't get sick from the disease, but they certainly can carry
the infectious stages of the parasite life cycle on their bodies.
In any event, any Velvet medication can, likely will, kill the
crayfish because they contain formalin and/or copper, both highly
poisonous to invertebrates.> and what do you recommend to fix
it? <Remove the Crayfish to a quarantine tank. Treat the tank
with a Whitespot/Velvet combo medication. Nothing tea-tree oil
based! Remember to remove carbon from the filter (if you use the
stuff). http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwfishmeds.htm
Once I'd finished that course of medications, I'd perhaps
run something for systemic bacterial infections, for example
Maracyn.> thanks for being prompt, I don't think I have
much time! <Cheers, Neale.>
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Please help me! ... Five gallon
mis-stocked, sick/mis-treated, feeling, not thinking, acting Hello.
I recently bought a five gallon tank, a pink kissing gourami <Gets
way too big for this size tank> , and several platies. The platies
have died, I returned them, and my new ones are sick. I've
separated the gourami and three newborn platies from the sick ones. One
platy has cloud eye, one ich, and the other dropsy. <Please read re
these diseases (use the search tool) on WWM> I've treated them
with what I can get - Ick Away; contains malachite green. The other is
some tablet B.S. called Fungus Clear. These fish have been quarantined
for a few days, and are getting worse. Also, will it be safe
(after the fish die or get better) to put the gourami and baby plats
back in the five gal. tank till the gourami gets bigger? <Not a good
idea... not very compatible...> I need someone to help me, before I
freak out and have a nervous break down over a group of fish! Thanks.
<Study my friend... think... stop emoting. Bob Fenner>
Dalmatian Molly - Dorsal Fin is green along the
top? More troubles... incompatible fish mix in an uncycled system
8/5/05 Hi WWM, great site. I just have a simple question but have
never seen someone else with the same problem, if it is a problem. 1st,
tank set up.... I am still cycling, but everything seems to be going as
planned, ammonia levels are almost zero, nitrates peaked but have since
dropped to almost zero, and my nitrates are naturally high from the tap
water. <Shouldn't be... a health hazard... for humans... if
"high"> I have some Nitrazorb that I'm going to put in
my Fluval 304 once I know the bio filter process is up and running
properly. I have 3 platy's and a swordtail, 4 Mollies (2 Dalmatian,
one Mexican Sail Fin and a 24k or Sunset) that are all juvenile.
<Shouldn't be in a cycling system> I just added 5 table
spoons full of aquarium salt yesterday and plan to gradually bring the
water up to brackish levels to accommodate my two newest inhabitants, a
couple of Colombian or Silver Tip Sharks. <... incompatible... and
adding salt will forestall establishment of nitrification> My
question is this, I just noticed that the very top of one of my
Dalmatian's dorsal fins has taken on a green tint. <Natural, not
a problem> The fish otherwise seems happy and healthy, as do all the
other fish with the exception of one platy who's been hiding and
not eating for about a day now. There are no obvious signs of any
disease in the tank that I can find and the water is as clear as can be
expected for a tank that is still cycling. I've been cycling for
about 4 weeks now so I figure it was ok to add the sharks. Any idea
about the green tint on the dorsal fin? I suspect the platy is just
adjusting to the salt in the water and should be fine soon but thought
I'd share any info that may be pertinent to the situation with the
molly. Thanks, Erik in Oceanside, CA <Be careful re
feeding, look to getting another system going for your shark/catfish
before they grow large enough to consume your livebearers. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Dalmatian Molly - Dorsal Fin is green along
the top? 8/6/05 Bob, <Erik> Thanks for the response, and that
is my intent. I know the sharks will grow quite a bit and fast, I plan
to relocate the Platies to a smaller tank soon. So far as having the
mollies in a cycling tank, they were recommended by my LFS, something
about Platies not generating enough ammonia to kick start the process?
<... am not a fan of cycling with fish livestock, but mollies are
more tolerant> The final set up I'm going for is 2 or 3 sharks,
a puffer, I already have him, a Milk Spotted and some arrow fish and
scats. Again, I know they will all outgrow this tank and plan to set up
more tanks as I go. I'm watching the puffer and sharks very close
for any sigs of stress related to the tank conditions and fin nipping
on the other fish. If they show even the slightest signs of stress
I'm going to return them to the LFS. They said they'd be happy
to hold them for me until the cycle is complete. Again, the LFS
recommended the aquarium salt. Apparently aquarium salt reduces the
toxicity of nitrites to the fish on a temporary basis? <Mmm, to some
degree, yes> The nitrates in my tap water are somewhere between 80
and 160 PPM. <... not safe for your consumption. Please do have your
public health officials out... Pronto> That's straight out of
the tap with no exposure to fish. I know that's not dangerously
high, but it's high enough that I plan to use the Nitrazorb. <Is
dangerous... for your fishes and your use> FYI, I did as much
reading and research as I could stand before I bought fish. I
didn't come across fishless cycling until after I bought the
mollies and platies. I plan to use this method on all of my future
tanks. The LFS sold me a product called "Stability". It says,
and the LFS claims that it rapidly establishes the bio filtration
system, reducing cycle time to about a week. Is this bunk? <Most all
such products are placebos at best. There are a few that do work.
BioSpira is the current best> I'm on day 5 which is the only
reason I determined it to be safe to buy the puffer. <I would wait
another few weeks> Again, any sign of stress and I'll either buy
a 20 gallon tank and do daily water changes for the puffer and the
sharks until the main tank is ready or let the LFS keep them in the
mean time. It is my intent to be as conscientious as possible in
raising my fish. <Good, and it does sound/read like you're
dedicated, have been investigating> The blue platy is eating again
BTW. Again, Thanks for your help. I've found your site to be one of
the most informative. As a newbie to the hobby, I see and hear a lot of
conflicting info. There seem to be a lot of "Experts" out
there. You folks are among the most educated I've come across so
any advice you have to offer that can save my fish and keep them
healthy will be taken very seriously. Sincerely, Erik in Oceanside
<Do always question folks "reasoning" behind their
beliefs... I wish you well, Bob Fenner, in San Diego>
Fish cart before the apple snail Recently we bought a new
aquarium and new fishes for our family. We got two
iridescent sharks, two Bala sharks, an Oscar, and a
Plecostomus. They were all getting along fine. We
got them on December 22nd and had them in a ten gallon
aquarium. On Christmas, we put them all in a 30 gallon tank.
<Still too small... eventually, even for just the Oscar!>
On December 27th, one of the Bala sharks
died. At first, we thought the Oscar attacked it but the
body didn't have a mark on it. <Could have died "from
fright" just the same> Then, the smaller of the
bala's disappeared. There is no way that it jumped out
of the tank because we have a full lid. <Minnow sharks do get out of
pretty small openings...> I think the Oscar ate it, but his stomach
never grew like it does when he eats live food. Now, the Iridescents are hiding a lot in the fake rocks that we have in the
tank. <I don't blame them!> I can never tell if they are
alive or not. A friend of ours that used to work in a pet
store says that the Oscar has ick. We got some "Ick
Away" and put in the first dose. it says the
dose can be repeated every 24 hours until symptoms
disappear. I have no idea how to tell if the symptoms are
gone or not. <Umm, what were the symptoms that led you to believe
the fish had ich in the first place?> What should I be looking for
that? <Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm>
Also, should I be getting anything special for the
Iridescents to make them happier? <Please read on WetWebMedia.com re
minnow sharks> I know they get scared easily. Should I
get them any anti-stress stuff? All of our water levels are
within normal range. We have soft water and I heard that the
Iridescents like harder water. <Yes, good> Is there anything that
I should do about that? thank you for your help. <I wish
we could go back to "square one" here... you've gotten
involved activity wise way ahead of necessary workable knowledge...
Take your time and read over WWM re the animals you have, stocking,
ich... disease, water quality... better to raise temperature, get rid
of the ich, trade in the Oscar... wait a month or longer, and consider
your stocking options. Bob Fenner>
Re: Info on "community 10 gal. tank" please You may
cringe a bit as you read: <I'll try not to!> Last November I
got a 10 gal. fish tank from my dad that had been left in a house he
had just purchased. Living in it (in extremely POOR water conditions)
were a spotted Cory, albino Cory, black skirt tetra, a type of angel
(silver with black stripes) and a gold colored koi. After getting the
tank home I did a complete water change but did not rinse off the
gravel, plastic plants or decorations so that there would be some algae
and stuff left from the original water, refilled the tank and put the
fish back in after acclimating them to the temp of the new water. All
was well for about three to four days and then I lost the angel...found
it floating dead one morning. I figured it was shock from the move and
the drastic change in water. <Probably> I cleaned the tank again
and put fresh water in and then all the fish. About one month later I
bought another tetra, an all silver koi (looks sooooo sharp)
and a Pleco. (( Here I will state that I found out a little later after
buying the second koi that tropicals are not supposed to be mixed with
goldfish/koi )) <OK, I won't lecture on the fact that they need
different water parameters. *G* Do try to move them to separate tanks
ASAP though.> All of the fish were doing well when about a week or
so later I noticed that both tetras had cottony growth on their
fins...and only their fins. I at first thought it was "ick"
and got this stuff called "Tank Buddies Ick Clear". It
didn't work. Then I found out that it could be either a fungus or
parasite. So, back to the store I went and got "Tank Buddies
Fungus Clear" and "Tank Buddies Parasite Clear". I tried
the fungus clear first. After a few days nothing. I did a partial water
change and then tried the parasite clear. Again, nothing. This cottony
growth is only affecting the tetras and is not going away. All my water
levels are good and I have a Penguin Mini and an under-gravel
filtration system in the tank, so keeping the levels good is pretty
easy. <It does sound like a fungus and I would recommend the product
made by Jungle called Fungus Guard or Fungus Eliminator (I can't
remember which name is correct!). I've had good success with it.
Just remember that your tetras are small scaled so should only be
treated with a half dose of any medication.> Oh, I did lose the gold
koi in January. He had this like "wart" on him for a day or
so and then it went away. But then, I came home to find him dead with
blood coming from the area where the wart had been. After I pulled him
out I did a complete water change. <Hmm'¦ take a look at
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfshparasites.htm
and the related FAQ's> Anyways, back to where I was...The tetras
don't really seem to be affected by this growth too much that I can
tell. The do swim around the tank a good bit and are not
"lifeless". They eat well. Although, they have lost some
color in their black stripes and tail fins and their tail fins look all
ratty. Is there anything you can suggest I try? <That's good.
Try the above medication and also look at the above URL to see if any
of the descriptions fit.> The silver koi is getting rather big
(about 5-6 inches) and I will be removing him when I can afford another
tank and all the filters and stuff. They all seem to be living well
together. No fighting, occasionally one tetra will chase the other.
About three to four days ago I got two "Tequila Sunrise
Guppies" (I was wanting some color in the tank) that are very
small...but all is well with them also...they are eating well and
staying to themselves...and the other fish pretty much don't know
they are there. As far as the problem with the tetras, what advice can
you offer? <This all sounds good> Something else I thought
of...in my tank lid I have two "blue colored" tank lights.
They heat up the tank water and I end up shutting it off after about
2-3 hours after turning it on. A guy in the fish store told me to try
to keep the water temp between 70-80 degrees F. But, the lights get it
up to between 82-84 within the first 2-3 hours. Should these lights be
doing this? Will the temp being above 80 be bad for the fish? <The
recommended temps for tropicals is 78-80 and for the Koi it should be
68-72 so it's not really good for any of them. If the bulbs are
heating the tank that much I would recommend changing to a different
bulb.> Any reply would be WONDERFUL! Thank you, Michelle
<You're welcome! Ronni>
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