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Series of Panda Corydoras deaths  2/24/11
Hello crew,
What a shame that I only contact you when things are going wrong!! I still peruse the boards and FAQs with interest, so thanks as always for the marvelous site.
<Thanks for the kind words.>
I started out wanting to query the reason for the steady demise of first 2,then a 3rd, and finally a 4th panda Corydoras catfish. Having typed out my set-up, water parameters and current stock and maintenance practices, however, I suspect I know what's happened (indeed from the FAQ's I certainly should). Even so, I would really appreciate the benefit of your wisdom to avoid a repeat performance, if that's alright. It's a bit lengthy but if nothing else, it will provide a lesson to other FAQ readers
<Indeed.>
Set-up is a 90 litre Fluval Roma 90 litre (20 US gallon) freshwater tank with Fluval U2 internal filter, about 5 months old - I cloned an existing mature filter at the time of setting it up, so the new tank cycled quite quickly.
<All sounds fine.>
Water parameters generally stay at nil ammonia, nil nitrite, 5- 10 nitrate. Temp 25c/77F. Ph on the high side at 8, hardness 5 GH. I use mains tap water with usual de-chlorinator etc.
<Do understand 25 C is absolutely at the top end of what almost all Corydoras find comfortable. Is that the cause of death? No; but it's always wise to keep the vast majority of Corydoras at 22-24 C, and to choose tankmates that appreciate the same thing: Neons, Platies, Swordtails, Danios, most Barbs, etc.>
Substrate is black sand (more of a fine gravel really), some ornaments, a 6 inch bubble wand, lots of hideaways and plastic plants, and it's about one quarter planted (with thick Vallisneria spiralis).
<Black sand can be tricky with Corydoras because most of it is a byproduct of glass manufacturer rather than sand, and it has a rough, abrasive quality that plays havoc with their barbels and underbelly. Again, unlikely the cause of death, but do check your sand or gravel feels silky smooth rather than rough.>
I usually do 20% water changes and brief substrate vac weekly, and do a better clean and filter rinse (in tank water obviously) about once every 4-6 weeks. There is some moderate green algae which grows as a fine fur on most surfaces - I clean it from the glass and the lighter coloured plastic plants, but leave it elsewhere for the fish to graze on. Lighting is on for 12 hrs per day.
<Fine.>
I have 10 Neons, 9 dwarf Puntius gelius barbs, 2 small striata and a yo-yo loach, 2 dwarf gouramis, a dwarf Bristlenose (2 inches long), 1 tiny bumble-bee goby, and 5 Amano shrimp. I feed once per day - sometimes giving them a fasting day - a variety (not all at the same time) of spirulina crisps, algae wafers, flakes, sinking pellets, frozen peas, and a frozen mix of bloodworm/brine shrimp/daphnia. They sometimes make the wafers last, but otherwise all food is gone in 5-15 minutes.
<Again, all sounds okay.>
I did have two other yo-yo loaches up until 3 weeks ago, which I re-homed as they grew enormous and were bullying everything in the tank. I also had a mini-school of 5 panda Corys - and here is the issue, as I find myself down to just one.
<Indeed, Yo-Yo loaches, and indeed loaches generally other than Kuhli Loaches, make poor companions for Corydoras.>
Regrettably the maintenance of the tank fell apart a bit a few weeks back (long story of boring personal crisis), and I confess I did nothing with it for about 5 weeks (apart from feeding the fish sparingly once per day). One of the larger panda's started sitting on the top of the filter occasionally, under the lights, but was otherwise acting fairly normally. I realised this was likely to be down to poor water quality and kicked myself into touch..I tackled the tank, and discovered that the panda fond of sitting on the filter seemed to be struggling to swim. I hoped that I hadn't left it too late, but sadly despite a good clean and water change, and removing the 2 huge bullying loaches, the panda was still suffering, upside down and unable to swim properly after 48 hrs, so with huge regret I euthanised him.
<Oh dear.>
And when I went to observe the other pandas to see how they were doing by comparison, only then did I realise there were 2 missing completely - I had assumed they were hiding away from the bullying loaches (the more they bullied, the more hiding places I introduced), and that's why I only ever saw 2 or 3 at a time. Very poor observation on my part.
<Perhaps so.>
The 2 remaining pandas were very dark in colour, which my LFS sternly informed me was down to the stress of a) the beastly loaches and b) the water quality. I got my act together and have been taking much better care of the two survivors..since shipping out the loaches and giving it a careful clean, the entire community is happier. The two panda's lightened in colour over the course of a few days, and they were back to fluttering around the tank with a pinkish hue quite happily again.
<Good.>
But after watching them swimming around and feeding normally a couple of nights ago, I gave the tank one final glance before going to bed, and saw one of the remaining pandas upside down in the plants, gasping for breath. By the time I'd fetched a small cup of iced water and the clove oil (I couldn't bear to think of him suffering overnight needlessly), he was dead.
<You don't need the ice water with the clove oil. Indeed, the thermal shock would defeat the object of using clove oil as a sedative! Just take 1 litre of water from the tank, put into a container, add 30 drops of clove oil, stir well, then immerse the fish, making sure it can't rise to the surface to gulp air (Corydoras can do this, and obviously the more the air they breathe, the less they use their gills, and the less they absorb the clove oil). After 10-15 minutes, you should find the fish has passed away peacefully.>
I guess my rescue operation came too late for him, despite 3 weeks of apparent normality? Why did he go so suddenly?
<No idea.>
Incidentally, of the 4 I lost I inspected 2 of them, and there was nothing obviously wrong with the bodies..no white marks, no sores, swellings, blisters or wounds, barbels quite long and intact. One was missing most of his tail fin, but I put that down to the loaches snapping at him when he was unable to swim away.
<Stress could easily be an issue, and water quality, hard to say which it is. But either way, you might not see any physical symptoms.>
I realise the last survivor needs more of his own species, but I don't want to rush out and buy another 4 in case it was not simple poor water quality that expedited their demise, but something else more mysterious (i.e. not the fault of a crappy fishkeeper).
<Indeed.>
Just before Neale tears several strips off me (if he hasn't already, further up in this rambling text), is it safe to say I caused this through lack of maintenance for a period of weeks?
<Impossible to be sure. But all else being equal, if the tank is now settled down and everyone seems happy, you could be justified in putting your fatalities down to this.>
Should I wait to see how the lone ranger fares before getting him some replacement tankmates, or just hurry up and get some?
<Yes, I'd wait; give it at least 3-4 weeks to make sure the tank is stable.>
If anyone else is reading this whilst assuming that a few missed water changes won't hurt, just spare a minute to think of the species you have and whether or not they are hardy enough to handle a spell of poor water quality. I suspect these cute little catfish were not. :o(
<Corydoras panda are indeed towards the delicate end of the Corydoras spectrum, at least when compared to Peppered or Bronze catfish. But they're still quite hardy fish.>
Thank you for any insights, and perhaps forgiveness for my confession.
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths  2/24/11
Hi Neale,
<Susie,>
Thanks for the quick response....part of the reason for the long email, as well as trying to pin down a reason for the loss of my pandas, was to get an all-round expert opinion on my current tank set up....and you have done that, so thank you!
<Cool.>
Re the temp.....dammit, stupid me....I recall reading something about the Corydoras preferring a specific end of the spectrum, but I incorrectly remembered it as being the WARMER end. I'll notch the heater down a little (slowly) over the next few days to see if I can make the last remaining panda more comfortable. A little knowledge is a bad thing sometimes.
<Corydoras sterbai is about the only Corydoras species happy at 24-28 C, hence it's reputation as the "Discus tank Corydoras". All the others prefer cooler water because they come from shallow, well-oxygenated streams. In fact I've kept Corydoras paleatus outdoors during English summers, where they did just fine.>
Re the black sand......I originally had quite a soft, grayish mixture of smooth sand, but when I topped up the new tank I bought a different brand which is indeed rather more glossy and glass-like. Hence it looks like very fine gravel to me, although it does feel smooth to the touch. Curses.....is it worth simply mixing in more soft sand, or should I remove as much of the glossy back stuff as I can without disturbing the plants, and replace it? It's not terribly deep, maximum of 3cm where planted and shallower elsewhere.
<If the Corydoras have long barbels with narrow, needle-like tips, then the sand is fine. If the sand is sharp, you'll find the barbels barely stick out a few mm from their mouths, and the tips will be rounded. Smooth silver sand from the garden centre is ideal, but fine gravel should work well too, just so long as it has rounded, not jagged, edges.>
I'm always faintly concerned that the gravel vac, which I use as I'm syphoning off water to change, is quite weak and only sucks up a minimal amount of gunk from the sand surface (the Bristlenose, small as he is, is an incredibly messy beast). The rest gets stirred up and eventually taken up by the filter or broken down by bacteria, I guess? I bought an air-pump driven vac with a little bag, but the suction on that is really poor, despite a pretty robust pump. The sand is disturbed/stirred when I move the ornaments for cleaning, plus I have a few assassin snails and possibly a few tiny tiny Malaysian trumpets under there - does that sound like enough to keep it reasonably clean and free of noxious gas pockets? I've considered pipetting up visible waste and squirting it into a net manually, but that may be getting a bit carried away.....??
<Yes, the sand will be fine. In fact sand tends to cause problems when disturbed rather than left alone. If you have some burrowing snails and/or plants, it'll be fine, and effectively self-cleaning. The denser sand at the bottom helps to remove nitrate. Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html
>
Re the suitability of the loaches, granted the LFS (M'head Aquatics, fantastically helpful people) did warn me to keep an eye out for the loaches bullying the Corys. They indicated, however, that where there was plenty of food, reasonable space, and refuge for the cats, it shouldn't be an issue.
<Indeed, but does depend on the Corydoras. Corydoras paleatus for example should be bolshy enough to get by, but little C. panda not so much.>
But these particular 2 loaches grew unusually large - I bought 3 but the 3rd remained quite small. Those I have left now were quite passive.... until I moved out the big chiefs. Now I have a new problem, with the 2 small striatas and the remaining yo-yo now fighting one another quite frequently, and occasionally having a go at other small fish.
<Yes, what they do. All the Botiine loaches have the potential to be troublesome.>
If the LFS will have them, I'm prepared to give up on them altogether...I got them for a bit of variety and to liven up the tank, with the assurance of the LFS that things would work out ok, but whilst fun to watch they appear to be total hooligans. I've got two Neons with one eye apiece to remember them by, even if I can't hold them directly responsible for the death of my Corydoras.
<Maidenhead Aquatics will usually take back fish, so shouldn't be an issue.>
Thanks for the tip on the kindest euthanasia method, I obviously hadn't properly understood how the clove oil worked. I hope I won't have to use it again anytime soon.
<Indeed.>
If the tank settles and I can move the last of the loaches out, I'd like another little shoal of the Cory cats....perhaps a different species, if the last panda makes it and will shoal with them?? There's some Adolfoi's at the local LFS.....or perhaps stick with bronze or peppered, given my chequered history? :o)
<Oh, do try C. panda again, perhaps four of them, and four C. adolfoi if you want. In any event, C. panda isn't delicate by fish standards, so well worth trying again.>
Thanks again for the oversight, I do appreciate it. Now to chat up Maidenhead to take the last of the loaches...
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths   2/26/11
Thanks Neale, you're a legend as always.
<Be sure to tell my girlfriend. She needs reminding.>
A couple of days on and the lone panda Cory seems to be doing okay. He's swimming actively (occasionally with the pygmy barbs!),
<Yes, the do this; their instinct to school is very strong.>
seems content enough out in the open, and appears to be feeding. Pic attached.....sorry, I couldn't get a decent image of the barbels, but following your description I had a good look.....I can only see two pairs, the uppermost, longer and slender pair, and the inner, thicker pair. The upper ones are about 3.5mm, the inners 3mm.....but hard as I try, I couldnt honestly say they are needle-like. Having looked at some online images of how the barbels should be, it looks as though the very tips of the needles of his have been worn off, so I guess that "sand" is indeed too harsh.....I'd better switch it out for something softer.
<As/when, yes, that'd be a good idea. Smooth silver sand can be bought in garden centres and is very cheap, around £3 for 25 kilos from my local garden centre. It does have a bright yellowy-brown colour though that not everyone likes (the fish don't care) and while it does darken with time (algae and bacteria coating the grains, presumably) some aquarists prefer to use very fine pea gravel or coloured aquarium sand (e.g., black sand). But as we've discussed before, some sand is too sharp, e.g., Tahitian Moon Sand, so spend some time researching this. Look for aquarium sands states as being "soft belly safe" or words to that effect. The CaribSea web site for example states whether this is true or not for all their substrates, making selection easier.>
It's been a week since the last water change so I did some pre-water change tests, just to see if anything is going on, or if I need to up the changes for a while....but everything is totally "normal" (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate), so happy days.
<Cool.>
The loaches are a bit obnoxious towards the panda, but he skitters away and comes right back out again so hopefully he's not overly bothered.
<Hopefully not. On the whole the bigger Corydoras, like Corydoras paleatus, handle themselves rather better with loaches than the smaller species. The big Brochis species would be even better.>
I notice the Bristlenose, which is getting rather large, can be a bit spiteful towards him as well.
<Territorial, more than spiteful, I'm sure.>
Will a large enough number of Corydoras cope with that as a group?
<Should do. Certainly, your Bristlenose poses no threat, and will only shoo Corydoras away from its nest and/or bits of food it wants for itself. Loaches are more of a gamble, as I've said before.>
Thanks
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths  3/1/11
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Yesterday I cleared out about a third of the sharp black sand, leaving the plants undisturbed, and covered what remained with 1.5 inches of much softer grade grayish sand, which I'd had in a previous tank - I'd washed it until the water ran clear prior to its previous use and got no residue, and washed it again this time, but still it gave the aquarium water a grayish hue?
<Silt, perhaps some diatoms and bacteria; will clear in time.>
Wonder why its releasing a residue the 2nd time around, hope it wont cause the fish a problem while the filter battles to clear it? They all seem to be alright this morning.......
Anyway, the little panda Cory had an instant return to form and was busy rummaging through the new sand as fast as I could add it.
<Nice to know.>
I made a trip to Maidenhead Aquatics to get some additional assassin snails, given the extra thickness of the sand, and now have my eye on some of their current Corydoras stock. They have some Julii, a peppered variety (Emerald??), plus Masked and Adolfoi. The last two are really expensive. Can't find any pandas, hope my last one will school with another species ok.
<Often do. Helps if similar in size, colouration.>
After studying the barbels of the fish in the store, my surviving panda most definitely has very worn barbels. How upsetting.....I guess this could have been the cause of their demise, if the water quality was not as poor as I thought. Hopefully the new sand will allow him to recover....do the barbels re-grow?
<Yes!>
He was happily scoffing a live bloodworm last night, so I take it he's feeling alright despite being alone.
<Cool.>
Intrigued about territories, have been trying to work out the dwarf gouramis captive areas.....
<Dwarf Gouramis favour patches about 20-30 cm square at the surface among floating plants.>
Thanks again
<Glad to help.>
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths  3/1/11
*groan*
Now you've gone and done it. I don't have any floating plants, only a cluster of planted Vallisneria spiralis (a patch about 8" x 8").
<These can work, once their leaves reach the surface. I do find Vallisneria become hair algae traps sometimes, but your Gourami couldn't care less.>
Now you've got me feverishly researching floating plants for the gouramis.....Riccia fluitans or Sylvania
<Salvinia.>
natans are the favourites so far,
<Both are good plants, though Riccia can be difficult to establish in tanks with strong currents. Salvinia natans is widely traded. Be sure to use the right Latin name! Places like Wildwoods routinely have it in stock.>
not that they appear very readily available apart from on eBay.......and that has only given me ideas for a beautiful green rug on the open area of substrate....
<My favourite is Indian Fern, a species Bob F. enjoys too. Few plants are as pretty and as useful. It's an unruly species, yes, but only because it's so vigorous!
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plantedtkssubwebindex/ceratopteris.htm
>
Damn silly hobby, I'll probably kill the plants. The Vallisneria simply got lucky. :o)
<Better to say Vallisneria is more adaptable than most of the other plants traded, so it does well even if conditions don't suit other species. There are a few other bullet-proof plants out there: Java fern, Anubias, Cryptocoryne wendtii it's really a question of researching your plants and matching them to the conditions (light, temp., water chemistry) being offered.>
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths  3/3/11
Hey Neale,
<Susie,>
I fully intended to liberate you from your torment and sign off with a big THANKS, for all the help and the link to the plants article, and you're dead right, the Vallisneria is indeed coated with hair algae.
<Combination of bright light and poor water flow at the surface causes this. Pull away "infected" leaves AT THE BASE, and be sure not to bury the stem of the Vallisneria in the substrate. Once the leaves are damaged at the base, the algae hits, BIG TIME. None of the green or white part of Vallis should be in the substrate, just the roots, the tops of which should be just visible above the substrate.>
My final choices for floating plants are perhaps the Salvinia (SALVINIA!) natans and maybe water lettuce.....will consider the Indian fern later.
<Cool.>
However, sadly I have to report that the surviving panda Cory cat is not doing so well......he seems to have taken a turn tonight. :o( He is quite motionless - he's not distressed, or breathing rapidly, he's just sitting still mostly, listing slightly to one side, occasionally fluttering away from another fish passing him. I fed some peas this evening and he drifted out for a short time to rummage half heartedly through a few morsels, then he drifted back to his spot under a plant.
<Oh dear.>
By way of a summary, he has been active and feeding for a few days since his last companion died, and seemed to rally after a change to the softer substrate two days ago. Water parameters have been stable. If I lose him, he'll be the 5th Corydoras to die over a period of about 5 weeks, yet none of my other five species have shown any problems at all. Combined with the marked wear of the barbels on this fish, I guess its safe to assume that the others also had worn barbels (I just didnt realise, as I had nothing to compare them with).....there was no damage to their bellies, only the barbels. Does this mean they were unable to feed properly?
<No, they can still feed. But the lack of barbels does imply less than perfect conditions for Corydoras.>
Is it more likely that there was an underlying bacterial infection which affected them all due to the damaged barbels....perhaps due to the brief lack of water changes and possibly grubby substrate?
<Possibly, but do remember, these catfish naturally plough through mud and silt. So "grubby" isn't a problem if the water is clean and the water current brisk.>
I wish there was something I could do for the panda.....could I treat for an infection? Is it too late for him?
<Hard to say. Would wait and see what happens. Doing a water change is rarely a bad idea, and it's well worth upping the oxygen content of the water if you can. But beyond that, without any clear idea of what the problem might be, medicating can be counterproductive.>
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths 3/3/11
Very interesting re the Vallisneria....the white parts are indeed submerged, so I'll fix that.
<Quickest way to kill your Vallisneria! If all else fails, just bury the tips of the roots in the substrate, and leave everything else above the substrate.>
The fish seem happy to snack on the algae, it's not there to huge excess, but the plants themselves could do with some thinning out. Can leaves be cut back near the base?
<Yes, but trimming Vallisneria needs to be done carefully. It's a bit like peeling a globe artichoke. Take the leaf off right at the base, taking great care not to damage the other leaves. Don't allow gravel or sand to get between the base of healthy leaves and the "stem" part of the plant, otherwise the leaf gets damaged and eventually dies. Plants can't heal leave -- they shed them -- and Vallisneria is notoriously finicky when manhandled. It's a plant that does much, MUCH better left to its own devices with as little fuss as possible. Given the right amount of light, and if planted properly, it's perhaps the easiest rooted plant of them all to grow, with only epiphytes like Anubias and Java fern being noticeably easier.>
The panda Cory is holding on, so far. Observing him last night and this morning, I'm wondering if he's simply starting to suffer from the lack of same species company....but he is feeding, so unless feeding is simply instinctive in fish, hopefully this means he is not close to death at the moment. There are none of his species at the LFS, I will have to look further afield, although this could mean they'll have to travel in a bag for over an hour, which isnt ideal.
<Oh, heavens, Corydoras will travel an hour without any fuss! So long as they don't become too chilled, you're fine. Remember, they're air-breathers and tolerate low-end tropical conditions, and these two traits are why they quickly became aquarium staples compared to other types of fish. Your only problem is making sure their fins don't burst the bags, so be sure not to pack too many per bag, and double bag them.>
It's true that the water movement is poor in this tank, compared to my last tank which had a more basic filter but a strong powerhead. The Fluval 2 does very little to move the water around - there are some different settings, but none of them seem to produce any decent current to speak of. The air flow setting stopped working after the first water change.
<Time to add another filter, methinks. A decent external canister filter -- ideally an Eheim if your budget runs to that, in terms of long-term value for money -- will make all the difference in the world. The Fluval externals are pretty good, too. Canisters allow you to have the inlet at the bottom of one end of the tank, and the outlet at the top at the other end of the tank, the ideal arrangement for good water flow. Alternatively, placing another internal filter at the other end of the tank, perhaps deeper down the water, would help, but internal canister filters are less good value for money in some ways, and pretty unsightly.>
I do have a 6" air stone in the centre of the tank, which provides a small amount of surface movement. I'm now researching a powerhead of some description to increase the current - but I'm confused as to what flow rate would be appropriate for my small tank (90 litres, 45cm deep x 60cm wide), particularly bearing in mind the Gouramis.
<A good rule of thumb for a mixed species tank would be 6 times the volume of the tank per hour, so in your case 6 x 90 = 540 litres/hour, which would be about as much as provided by an Eheim 2215 on its own, or an Eheim 2213 alongside your little Fluval. You could tweak the current down or up a bit using the taps on the canister to get just the right amount. Spray bars are super-helpful at spreading out current, so gentle swimmers like Gouramis aren't pushed about.>
With the fish I have (Corydoras, loaches, pygmy barbs, neon tetras, dwarf gouramis), should my aim be to increase the current at lower and mid levels?
<Yes.>
Would a simple, one directional 1000 LPH powerhead be sufficient for the catfish etc, if I position it at the bottom, but not too much for the Gouramis at the upper levels?
<A powerhead will push water along the top, while sucking water in at the bottom. If combined with an undergravel filter this can work rather well, but by itself, I'd honestly recommend at least another internal canister filter, simply so you get some filtration alongside the water current.>
Might this additional movement be adequate to reduce the hair algae around the tank a little, and lift up more of the waste I'm battling with on the substrate?
<Oh yes! Algae thrives when plants don't, and Vallisneria evolved to live in flowing water -- that's why their leaves are so long and bendy. I'm sure that flowing water helps to keep them clean to some degree.>
Would I still be able to maintain an area of floating plants with the extra current?
<Yes, but the floating plants end up at one end. Quite nice in some ways, as it divides your tank into two habitats, one shady and the other bright and open.>
Thank you
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths/possible Flexibacter??   3/10/11
Gruetzi Doc,
<Wie geht's?>
Okay, need to consider treatment of possible Flexibacter then.
<Flexibacter columnaris, so-called Mouth Fungus.>
Miss Ancistrus has been out and about this evening and those tiny cottony tufts are visible again - two flecks, one on each side, perfectly symmetrical. So small that I have to really strain my eyes to focus on them, and make sure it's not just some weird trick of the light. Nope, definitely there, definitely white and thready.
<Could be plain vanilla Fungus, rather than Mouth Fungus; Mouth Fungus tends to be more grey and slimly looking than the cottony threads of plain vanilla Fungus.>
So what's the best commercially available treatment?
<Methylene Blue is the standard anti-Fungus.>
I think I read about most "Fungus"/Finrot treatments containing the right antibiotic somewhere, I'll go look again.
<In the UK, a medication called eSHa 2000 treats Fungus, Finrot, and Flexibacter columnaris (Mouth Fungus) all at the same time. I've used it safely with catfish and puffers, so I don't think it's especially toxic.>
The presence of bacteria must be down to poor water quality at some stage.....perhaps going back to the 6 weeks neglect in January, when I first started losing the Corys?
<Perhaps.>
Could it have caused the loss of the panda Corys, even with no outward signs?
<Can do.>
A long shot, but can it be introduced by feeding live food...is that a myth, that those little tubes of are infected with all kinds of bacteria?
<Depends on the live food. Brine shrimp is completely safe, Daphnia usually very safe. Bloodworms much less safe, and Tubifex by far the most unsafe.>
Okay, thanks for the recommendation re my little community, I'm honoured!! Happy to ship out the loaches and the Gouramis (much as I like the two dwarf variety, the honeys less so).....had a peek at Laetacara curviceps, yep, a Dwarf Cichlid (maybe a pair?) would be tres cool.
<They are nice, shy dwarf cichlids. Colours change remarkably, and look best (greens, blues) in dark, peaceful tanks with plenty of overhead shade and no aggressive tankmates. Tend to be paler (grey, yellowy) in bright tanks with few plants, no shade, and aggressive tankmates.>
I have, however, often gazed adoringly at Mikrogeophagus ramirezi when they have them at the LFS, the beautiful German Blue Rams.....I have a sneaky feeling I've toyed with the idea of these before, but was dissuaded for some reason.
<Near-useless species for casual aquarists. Needs very warm, very soft, very acidic conditions; 28-30 C, 1-5 degrees dH, pH 5-6.5. Lifespan in most aquaria is less than six months. Very, very prone to diseases including Mycobacteria and Hexamita. An ample literature on this species.>
Not certain my water parameters were thought suitable. How about one of the other more brightly coloured species of Dwarf Cichlid?
<If you can find them, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus is quite hardy and does well in moderately hard water. Apistogramma cacatuoides is another reliable species. In hard, basic water, Julidochromis ornatus is a dwarf Tanganyikan that works well in community tanks because it is only aggressive towards other cichlids; singletons or pairs will ignore midwater schooling fish completely, though they may harass Corydoras if there isn't enough space for both catfish and cichlids.>
I definitely rate MA.....there are two stores I frequent, Farnham and Havant (wasn't that taken by Hickstead down near Gatwick, but that was more to do with their general attitude than their expertise). The manager at the Farnham branch always bowls me over with his knowledge, I believe he keeps a Dwarf Cichlid which he shows (there is such a thing as Cichlid Shows??)?
<Yes indeed.>
He told me once that he thoroughly defrosts and/or washes its food before feeding and adds vitamins to it. That's proper dedication.
<Quite so.>
Thanks as always - will go and do a fresh search on Flexibacter on WWM to find suitable treatments, as I will no doubt be rushing to get some before you have an opportunity to respond!
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths/possible Flexibacter??   3/12/11
Hallo, bin Ich sehr guter dank Neale, wie über Sie?
<Also Ich bin sehr gut, danke. Und dein fische?>
It's been an expensive day. The eSHa 2000 has been duly purchased to tackle possible fungus, along with a very small hospital tank with its own sponge filter (which I am running in the main tank as we speak/type)....but I now can't decide whether to isolate the Bristlenose and treat only her, OR remove the shrimp and snails (I know it says shrimp safe, but it does contain 8mg copper sulphate) and treat the main tank.
<I would remove both shrimps and snails to the hospital tank for now, and treat the fish in the main tank. Medications tend to kill snails and shrimps. If you don't feed the shrimps and snails, even a small tank without a filter should be adequate, provided you change some of the water daily. Adding a little sponge filter will improve things further.>
She's the only one with any signs of infection.....what would be best?
<See above.>
If I do treat the main tank, the internal filter contains poly/carbon pads.....however, it has been in use for 5 months, so am I right in thinking that the carbon element can now be considered inactive, so I can simply treat with that filter in situ?
<Carbon will remove medications, but once carbon has been in use for more than a few weeks, yes, it is largely inactive and acts merely as a substrate for the filter bacteria. Still, it's one more variable. I'd remove.>
MA did actually have a few Apistogramma cacatuoides in stock, but I'm rather more taken by Mikrogeophagus altispinosus (the Bolivian Ram Club has me sold on these fish) and I'm happy to wait a while for the tank to settle. Will I have room for a pair d'you think?
<Mikrogeophagus altispinosus is a superb species. It is a trifle larger than the Common Ram, maybe 6 cm long when fully grown, and its colours are a tad less brilliant, tending towards grey-white with red, black and blue markings. But it is still a colourful fish and by dwarf cichlid standards extremely robust and easy to keep. It is probably the best dwarf cichlid in the trade. If you get good specimens, and you keep nitrate levels below 20 mg/l, you shouldn't have any problems with it. A pair will be fine in a tank as small as 75 litres. They don't damage plants, but like Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, the "Mikrogeophagus" part of the name means "little earth-eater" and they do like to sift sand and extract tiny particles of food.>
By far my most exciting and extravagant purchase today, however, was......*drum roll please*......a Fluval 205 external filter.
<A good filter.>
I researched the Eheims you mentioned, and a number of other reliable makes at good prices, but quickly discovered that Fluval, with exceptional long-term marketing planning, have designed the Fluval Roma 90 cabinet to accommodate very few other makes of external filter other than, well, Fluval. Neat thinking, huh?
<Or something>
I'd have gone for the more powerful 305, as it would have just about fit, but MA convinced me this would be overkill for 90 litres.
<Could well be.>
They were also kind enough to give me a good deal (some of their branches will price match if you ask politely and take some evidence of an online offer).
<Indeed. Right now, it's a buyer's market in retail generally.>
I'm dying to set it up right now, however, it definitely has bags of active carbon amongst the supplied media, so I'd better decide whether I'm treating the whole tank or just the Ancistrus before I start up the new external.
<Would set aside the carbon for now. I like to use just plain vanilla sponges or masses of ceramic hoops in Fluval filters. If I recall correctly, these filters have a couple of sponges on one side of the filter canister, and a couple of boxes on the other side for filling with media. On my Fluval 104, I've got ceramic hoops in those two boxes. You can also fill them with filter floss if you want something cheap and cheerful. The sponges will handle biological filtration, and the filter floss will take care of silt, and if you replace the floss every month or two, you should have crystal clear water.>
Having said all that.....the Ancistrus has come out to feed her face with cucumber tonight, and surprise surprise, not a cottony spot to be seen on her anywhere. I was alarmed to see a bright white, even silvery spot on the face of one of the Dwarf Gouramis though.....no bump or tuft, just a silvery spot. More like the other male has pecked his face, perhaps? They do squabble a bit.
<Yes, they do squabble.>
So now I'm in a quandary over whether to bother to treat at all. I can't even supply pictures, the Ancistrus in particular skitters away so fast.
<If the fish appear to be healing, then leave them to it.>
Will gladly take your guidance on my next move....to treat or not to treat, in the absence of reliable evidence of infection?
<Indeed.>
Oh.....but good news on the sickly Panda Cory. He is visibly better. Swimming with the others, a little lighter in colour now, regaining some of his former flutter and flexing his stumpy barbels with more enthusiasm. Thanks for all the advice, let's hope he continues to improve.
<Am hoping.>
Just as a parting question, changing the subject back to plants, I'd like to spread the Vallisneria around the tank a bit more ready for the Rams - it's all clumped in one front corner and getting crowded. Can I gently lift it all out of the substrate, separate the plants, and re-distribute/re-plant in a different position (without burying the white parts this time)? Is that too much disruption?
<Vallisneria handle this just fine. The only thing is to make sure you don't get sand or gravel in between the leaves and their attachments to the stem-like structure (called a "crown"). Snap off baby plants by the runners, but leave a bit of runner attached rather than risk breaking away part of the crown by trimming too close. Then, so long as you only put the roots in the sand or gravel, you should be fine, and Vallisneria handles transplantation very well.>
Dank, hat ein gutes wochenende. I'm not German, merely getting in some practice for a forthcoming trip to Zurich
<I see! Yes, I hope to have a good weekend indeed. Off shortly into London for lunch in Chinatown. Cheers, Neale.>
Susie

Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths/possible fungus/now a mini-cycle, chatting    3/14/11
Mornin', hope London and Chinatown was good?
<Yes indeedy!>
Quick update.....I set up the new external on Saturday, seeding it with a third of the media and a healthy blob of gunk from the existing internal. Yesterday I carefully uprooted the clump of Vallisneria Spiralis, trimmed off the many plantlets and re-distributed around the tank with a little fertiliser in the substrate.
<Cool. I have never found Vallisneria very demanding in terms of fertilisers, though the odd fertiliser tablet in its roots won't do any harm. But it really is a classic, low maintenance plant that wants for very little.>
Tank now nicely laid out, less cluttered and much cleaner, ready for a couple of Bolivian Rams in the next few weeks after the Gouramis and loaches have moved out.
<Sounds good.>
And in doing all of this, I think I've kicked off a mini-cycle. *slaps forehead*
<Perhaps, but plants can dramatically speed the cycling process off, so don't be too disheartened. Apart from absorbing ammonia directly, they also carry lots of "good bacteria" that perform the biological cycle. It's perfectly possible to create a tank that relies 100% on plants for water quality -- in fact many ponds work exactly that way!>
The ailing Panda Cory is very weak again, barely able to hold his position in the water, and one of the Striata loaches doesnt look too clever (pale and less active than usual).
<Don't feed for a couple days, at least.>
Even the Assassin snails have popped up out of the sand, and I don't see them that often.
<Quite possibly pushed out of shape by digging up the substrate. If they come up to the top of the tank to breathe, that's a much worse sign.>
I tested the water this morning, and although Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is indeed reading 0.05 and Nitrates are a fraction lower than normal between 5-10.
<I see.>
If my understanding of the cycle is correct, this indicates that it's almost over already? The rest of the community seems fine. I'm thinking a water change to get the nitrite down, then let nature take its course?
<Yes, would do nothing much more than wait and see. Don't feed. Do an extra 25% water change every second day for this week. Should be fine.>
Cheers...
Susie
<Tschuess! Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths/possible fungus/now a gabby-mini-cycle   3/16/11
Hey Neale,
<Susie,>
Thanks for latest pointers. Tank is settling after a further 25% water change, ammonia and nitrite both currently 0 - whole tank is noticeably livelier and even the weak panda Corydoras has improved.
<Cool.>
Thought it would amuse you to know that, to save bothering you with any further insignificant questions veering off the original topic, I would venture back to a popular fish forum. Not WWM unfortunately, I can't seem to add a new post there even though I'm member? Must be going blind.
<Odd. WWM does have a forum, and you should be able to post there without problems. Do send a message to the forum moderators if needs be. If still doesn't work, let me or Bob F. know.>
After innocently enquiring as to why my neon tetras and pygmy barbs might be swimming in impressive nose-down symmetry after the upheaval of the weekend, I "learned" the following; that the current is now too strong for the mid-water shoals, that the tank is way over stocked (shouldnt have two shoals in a tank so small), and that the pH of my tapwater is too high for most species of tropical fish at 8. And of course that I shouldnt bother getting any Mikrogeophagus altispinosus as they won't handle a) the pH and b) the level of water movement.
<pH is actually less of an issue than many assume, but if you do have a pH of 8, it's likely your water is hard and alkaline, and that *is* bad for soft water fish. There are some good options for hard water, including some tetras, but you'd do well to avoid Neons; I've never found Neons do well in "London Tap" compared to X-ray Tetras for example, which tolerate hard water much, much better.>
The new current scarcely ripples the plants, for goodness sake, even the Gourami's arent bothered. And my understanding from WWM is that as long as the pH is constant, the fish aren't overly fussed.
<To a degree, but do see above.>
The tank is indeed heavily stocked but I upgraded to an external filter and anyway, I'm shipping out 8 fish to replace with 2. I can't even be bothered to post a response, but I do suddenly recall why I stopped bothering with fish forums and deleted them all from my favourites.......
<Oh dear.>
Bet all the regurgitated opinion out there drives you barmy.
<Hmm>
TTFN
Susie
<Good luck! Neale.>
Re: Series of Panda Corydoras deaths/possible fungus/now a mini-cycle   3/16/11
Hi,
<Salve,>
Okay, fair enough...it does seem that the tap water in our area is slightly hard (never got to grips with that measurement with my test kit, will get it done by MA again) and has a pH of 7-8.
<I see.>
I certainly had problems keeping guppies, but that was back in my Fluval Edge days. I've had the neon tetras for almost a year, and only lost one, and that was attacked by one of the large loaches I no longer have - maybe they can acclimatise to the harder conditions, I guess time will tell.
<Indeed.>
The only losses I've had were the Corydoras, and MA suggested that a pH of 8 could be a tad high - will never know whether it was this, poor water quality or presence of fungus that caused their demise (or all 3). Again, if the latest batch don't survive, perhaps its the water parameters not suiting them so I won't try again.
<Corydoras generally aren't too fussy, but the tough species are best here: Corydoras paleatus, Corydoras aeneus in particular.>
Other than the Corydoras, I've not had problems with any fish since the guppies. I thought I wasn't doing too badly, I read of some people losing tank fulls of fish in one swoop!
<Quite so.>
I can try to buffer the water but going that route seems fraught with even more problems.
<Yikes! Do avoid messing about with water chemistry. Changing the pH directly is extremely hazardous. Do read about reducing water hardness, e.g., mixing hard tap water with rain or RO water.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm
>
Will soldier on and see how it goes. Thanks again for all the help, I'll try WWM forums again. <<TG>>
Susie
<Real good. Cheers, Neale.>

Odd panda Cory behaviour 5/21/08 Hi there, WWM's seen me through some tough times, and some pretty good ones too. So, thanks. <You are welcome.> I've been looking for info on panda Cory behaviour but I haven't had much luck. <Shouldn't be much different to any other Corydoras spp.> Here's my inquiry (w. specs below): I just picked up two panda Corys to join two I already had in my tank. <Four specimens does not a school of catfish make! Try keeping six or more. Trust me, the bigger the group, the happier your Corydoras will be.> They seemed to adjust rather quickly, schooling and what not. But for the last two hours or so, one of the Corys, a new guy I'm pretty sure, has been hanging onto the side of the glass at the water line occasionally moving to keep in one spot. <Can be one of two things. Corydoras will "gasp" at the surface when stressed in some way. Corydoras are obligate air breathers, meaning they *must* come to the surface and gulp air every couple of minutes, which is why they have to be kept in shallow water. But if the water is bad somehow, or the catfish are sick, they will come to the surface a lot more often. The second possibility is spawning behaviour. Corydoras will often form small groups (typically trios) consisting of a ripe female plus attendant males. These groups (in my tank anyway) flutter up the glass, laying eggs a few at a time.> when I look into to check on him he darts away. however, in the last few check ups he more listlessly tried to move away. <Not a good sign.> He was swimming normally, hanging around the bottom and scavenging when he first moved in, so I'm doubting swim bladder issues. <'Swim bladder disease' is pretty uncommon, and usually the name is applied to symptoms caused by other problems, such as constipation and bacterial infections.> Otherwise he appears healthy. no discolouration, spots, growths, and he's not gasping for air. The other Cory's are all fine and content along the bottom without him. Is he just being quirky? Or should I be worried. I'm worried. <I'd certainly observe. Routine water quality checks would be useful too: make sure the pH is stable for example. Corydoras are fine between pH 6 and 8, but what they don't like is the pH to be moving about all the time.> Specs: 20g Filter: Fluval 3+ submerged 700 l/hr 78 degrees F NH3 0.1 ppm <If you have this much ammonia, you have a problem. Ammonia at any level other than zero is a potential stress factor. Do check you are not overfeeding, that the tank isn't overstocked, and the filter is correctly maintained. This would be the first thing I'd suggest as the reason the Corydoras are unhappy.> pH 7.0 Weekly water changes at 20% with a few more recently to bring my pH back to normal (>5.0 several weeks ago) and ammonia down after a period of lax care I won't soon repeat. <Indeed, you do want to ensure stable conditions.> tank mates: a couple ferns, 2 swordtails, 4 Corys, 3 platys, 3 guppies, 1 dwarf frog, and 3 baby clown loaches which are leaving ASAP since the tank's too small. <Nothing seems terribly likely to harm your Corydoras in there. Though I will make the point Swordtails are far too big and active for a 20 gallon tank, so I'd move them with the loaches.> Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers and thanks, Adam <Cheers, Neale.>

Discoloured panda Cory  3/23/08 Dear WWM, <Melissa> I have a 15 gallon freshwater tank that's been running for about six months. It contains: live plants; some snails (unplanned, but nothing near an infestation); 1 platy; 3 guppies; 4 albino Corys; 1 panda Cory (I realise I need more of these, but my LFS has not had them shipped in for awhile) and about 8 or 9 platy fry which I am not making any particular efforts to keep alive. The substrate is sand. Water changes are done 25% weekly. <Good> About two days ago I noticed that the panda Cory has lost all its colour. It is pretty small, about 1.5 inches long. It is almost completely white - the black markings around its eyes and near its tail are barely visible anymore. <Unusual> What do you think this could be? Other than appearance, it is acting fine; no changes in activity level or appetite. There are also no physical growths or lesions on him that I can see. <Stress... from something...> I have a cycled 5 gallon quarantine tank with sand substrate; should I put the Cory in there just to be safe? Thanks. -Melissa <I would not... likely more stressful... Perhaps this one fish is changing color to "match" the albino congeners... Bob Fenner>

Re: Discoloured panda Cory  3/23/08 Hi Bob, Should I just leave the Cory be, then? -Melissa <Yes, I would. B>

Help! My panda Cory is dying! 1/27/08 Hello, <Ave,> I have tried searching for this specific answer on the website and could not find. I don't have test kits here at my office (I left them all at home) but I know what the problem is, my 10 gallon had an ammonia spike. <Easy enough to fix, at least.> 5 days ago I bought 6 dwarf Corys and one of them got sucked in the filter and I didn't notice till 2 days after. Its whole body was in the filter where sponge is. <Hmm... usually when fish get "stuck" in filters, the fish was dead and merely sucked into the thing. Healthy fish, even things as small as Guppy fry, have no problems avoiding the suction from a filter. So when you find a dead fish in a filter, the question is *why* the fish died in the first place, not *what's it doing in the filter?*.> On that same day, 2 of my neon tetras and 1 more dwarf Cory died. I took the sponge filter out (bits of dead fish caught underneath it), gently swished around the sponge in aquarium water (in a bowl and then threw that water out) put the filter back, and did a 50% water change. <Does sound like a bigger underlying problem rather than one dead fish.> It has been 3 days now. For each of those days I have been doing about %50 water changes twice a day because now my other panda and another dwarf Cory have been showing very rapid gilling for 3 days. <Do need to know how much stuff is in this tank, and when you set it up. A 10-gallon tank is too small for most Corydoras, and certainly Corydoras panda, so assuming you have the essential school of at least four specimens, you're already overstocked with them. (And only a very cruel person would keep fewer than four Corydoras of each species -- they're schooling fish that need company.) Likewise, Neons need to be in groups of six or more, and while they're acceptable inmates for a 10-gallon tank, together with other fish you may well be over the limit. If you set this tank up recently, you may well also have an immature filter, and if you're overfeeding the fish, things go from bad to worse. Have a read of this (February's) TFH -- I have an article all about 10-gallon tanks, and you'll find it useful. Stocking such small tanks is difficult, and keeping them healthy even more difficult, which is why experienced fishkeepers universally recommend beginners start with 20-gallon or larger tanks. The size/price difference is trivial, but the ease of care is dramatically better.> I'm so worried because I don't know what's going on, I thought that water changes would provide immediate relief? <Up to a point yes, but it's like wiping your nose when you have a cold: helpful, but doesn't actually make you better. If the water quality is poor because the tank is poorly set up or maintained, then your issues run deeper than anything water changes alone can fix.> Today I put in another bag of Zeolite into my AquaClear filter, added some bacterial cycle stuff (we don't get BioSpira in Canada) and added a .25 teaspoon of aquarium salt. Is this ok? <Most of the "Cycle" type products are of questionable value (to be polite). Only the ones with live bacteria in them have any beneficial impact. Those that simply say they "promote" bacterial filters are really not doing much of anything except channeling cash from your pocket into the manufacturer's bank account. Aquarium salt can help relieve the symptoms of nitrite poisoning -- in the short term. As a long term fix, it isn't one.> Am I changing out too much water? <No. If the ammonia/nitrite levels aren't zero, then a water change is indeed appropriate.> I know I have not tested the water yet (will do tomorrow) but I thought that large water changes would fix the problem even if the parameters were too high? <Nope. Doesn't work this way.> Why are the Corys not showing signs of relief yet? They seem to be getting worse. <I bet. They'll keep getting worse until conditions in the tank improve, and that can mean you will need to give more time, remove some fish, feed less food, use a bigger filter, or all of the above, depending on the precise situation.> 10 gallon <Too small.> temp is 76F <Fine.> ph 7.0 (out of tap 6.8) <Fine.> but I have gravel in there that brings it up <Eh? Gravel doesn't have any impact on water chemistry, unless you've been sold a calcareous substrate such as crushed coral or coral sand, neither of which is appropriate for a South American community tank.> established 3 months (the pandas have been in there for the entire 3 months and were happy till a few days ago) 6 neon tetras (1 inch size) 2 honey dwarf gouramis (1 inch in size each) 2 panda Corys (1 panda in distress) 3 dwarf Corys (all about 0.5 inches in size, 1 dwarf in distress) <Whoa... too many fish for a 10 gallon tank, especially one just 3 months old. Six Neons and four Dwarf Corydoras would be about right for this tank. Everything else is just a succession of straws breaking the back of the proverbial camel.> ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, not sure yet as I will be testing tomorrow. <Good. The only critical one is Nitrite, the others are nice to know, so if you can afford just one test kit, buy a Nitrite test.> Should I be doing anything else? help!! <Reading, learning, taking fish back/buying bigger tank. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: help! My panda Cory is dying! 1/29/08 Hi there thanks Neale for your wisdom! <No problem.> This message is for Neale please since he responded originally to my issues. Yes I know the whole thing about having 2 pandas (less than 4) but where I am located we don't get fish in very often and I live in the north so we hardly get pandas, and dwarf Corys, they usually die/and or get stressed from shipping so far, so hopefully I can get my pandas some friends soon. Also I know you think my tank is overstocked, but I do regular weekly water changes and do not overfeed my tank I am very careful to monitor them everyday and all of them are just babies not full grown yet. <OK, I take your point, but please understand that [a] fish don't stay small forever; and [b] the smaller the tank, the smaller your odds of success.> I will make my questions short, here is the situation: One of my pandas was affected by an ammonia spike from a dead fish getting stuck way up in the filter (see below). Distress symptoms first exhibited 5 days ago. Days 1-2 severe distress, lethargic did %50 water changes twice a day for both days Day 3-4 rapid gilling, severe distress, lethargic %50 water change twice a day, added 1.5 tsp salt/10 gallons, added an airstone (tested water, amm=0, nitrite=0.1, nitrate=5) and replaced accordingly to amount of H2O removed. Day 5 (yesterday) gilling improved, but slight shimmying exhibited. 1x %50 water change with salt (nitrite=0) Day 6 (today) no shimmying, rapid gilling again! What is going on...... <The problem with ammonia (and water quality problems generally) is that you don't see a one-to-one relationship between the problem and the symptoms. It's kind of like food poisoning in humans -- it can cause anything from vomiting to fatigue to hallucinations. So it depends on a range of things. At best, experience tells us that poor water quality causes a whole bunch of problems, and if things aren't turned around tout-de-suite, you end up with dead fish. All I can say here is that so long as you don't get zero ammonia, you're going to keep having stressed/dead fish.> this morning I did a 50% water change and cant figure out if I should add salt or not? ( my other baby Corys don't like it as they don't move much when salt in tank), <Small amounts of salt are harmless to Corydoras, especially compared with ammonia. I 100% do not recommend using salt as a standard additive, but in the short term, under these circumstances, a small amount can help.> How long should I add salt for as I see no improvement in my panda's condition? <Once the ammonia is at zero, drop the salt.> I don't see anything else wrong with her, but her rapid gilling is worrying me. Where I live they do not sell antibiotics, only fungal medication. Should I remove my panda into a quarantine and keep treating with salt? I'm worried that the stress of moving her will kill her. Please help!!!! <If your fish doesn't have Fungus, then don't treat for it. Simple as that. Concentrate on turning around the water quality right now. Review your feeding, your water changes, and the size/type of filter being used. Ask yourself if the filter is being used efficiently. In a small filter, carbon is a waste of space, and there are "deluxe" filter media like Siporax that offer more ammonia/nitrite removal per cubic centimetre than standard issue floss or sponge. Are you maintaining the filter properly? Washing filter media in anything other than aquarium water risks killing the bacteria. So there are little things you can do. Also check your tap water -- does it have ammonia? Is it treated with Chloramine? Both of these things are sometimes present, and if they are, you need specific types of dechlorinator to remove them.> thanks so much for your prompt reply:) <Good luck, Neale.>
Re: help! My panda Cory is dying!  -01/30/08 Thanks so much Neale, <Terri,> I feel much better knowing that since I'm not sure what is wrong with her (she is breathing so hard, not sure if she has a bacterial infection or not ) all I can do is keep the water clean while she is sick. <Indeed.> Just one more question though: if say I can find some antibiotic treatment online or something, should I just treat her with an antibiotic in a quarantine tank, knowing that maybe she has caught something secondary from the ammonia spike stress? <If she isn't showing symptoms, there's no real need to treat. Maracyn (an antibiotic) is harmless enough, so if you want to use that as a precaution, then go ahead. Won't do any harm to her or the other fish. But standard antibacterials contain copper and formalin and other stuff that is more or less toxic to fish, so should be used as rarely as possible. Do look out for the early signs of Finrot, as this is the most likely follow-on from ammonia; typically the fins turn pink as the blood vessels therein become irritated. Only afterwards do the fins actually rot. So spotting the pinkness is a good signal.> Thanks so much for your knowledge. I really hope she recovers... <So do I.> Cheers Terri <Cheers, Neale.>
Re: help! My panda Cory is dying!  2/21/08 This is a message for Neale, <He's here!> I just wanted to say thanks so much for your informative response, I wrote several weeks ago in regards to help with a dying panda Cory. What happened was an ammonia/nitrite spike from a dead dwarf Cory (died from too much stress as they were new fish that were shipped long distances in very cold weather -40C!) rotting in my filter for about 2 days before I realised that it died and got sucked up into my filter. <Ah, the plot thinnens...> After your advice and 1 week of 2x 50% water changes/day, followed by 1 week of 1x 50% water changes/day with added 1 teaspoon of salt to 10 gallons, my little Cory was finally recovering. I was so happy that I did not have to medicate my panda and the water changes and salt helped so much. <Don't keep adding the salt indefinitely though. Once the fish are healthy, you can stop adding it. Salt doesn't do anything useful in a properly run freshwater aquarium, and some have argued it likely causes problems in the long run.> She was well for about 1 week with renewed appetite and I was so happy, but like you said Finrot started to set in and I monitored it carefully since she seemed well by last Friday. Now I left work (this is my office tank) for the weekend and all of a sudden on Monday my panda looked so bad, not moving I'm not sure what happened. All of the other fish in the tank are fine. Today alas she is dying I can tell that its the end of the road for her because she has gone very pale, lying on one side and pupils dilated, gasping for breath. I'm so sad because she was my first fish. <Oh dear.> Aside from going over the details again on my history (I believe my previous emails were already posted on WetWeb) my question is do you know what happened over the weekend? <Impossible to say, but as ever the two things you should check at once are nitrite and pH. These will give you a snapshot of the aquarium conditions. If there's any nitrite, that means there's a filtration problem; and if there's a big difference in pH relative to the normal value, then it's water chemistry that needs looking at. This said, Finrot can spread into the body, and once that happens, you're dealing with Septicaemia. If you don't treat Finrot quickly enough, this is what happens.> Her back fin was a little bit gone from the Finrot but just last week she seemed fine, what could have caused her to die so quickly when she was just recovering? <Difficult to say.> Just if anyone is wondering, from my experience now panda Corys are extremely sensitive to water conditions, as when the spike occurred nitrite levels were 0.1 ppm, where all my other fish were ok (as I understand 0.3 ppm and over fish normally begin to show signs). <Er, no. Any nitrite... ANY NITRITE is potentially dangerous, whatever the fish. There's no "safe level" other than ZERO. Yes, some fishes sometimes tolerate more than other fishes, but there are no guarantees. Panda Corydoras are relatively hardy in mature tanks, but I'd concur with your opinion that they aren't bullet-proof. Or put another way, if you're looking for a Corydoras for a new aquarium or aren't 100% sure about your fishkeeping skills, then there are other species to keep instead, for example Peppered Corydoras or Bronze Corydoras.> I will be burying her tonight: ( <Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.> Thanks Neale Cheers <Cheers, Neale.>

Panda Cory with Milky Film 10/13/05 Hello, <Good morning. Sabrina with you.> This is my first fish tank and your website has been tremendously valuable. I keep making mistakes, though, and lost 4 panda Corys. Just when I think I've figured out what I'm doing wrong, another panda gets sick. <Yikes. Starting out, most folks make mistakes, so do not beat yourself up on this. It is how we are prompted to learn.> I now have two pandas. One seems healthy and active, but the other has milky white clumps on one side of his body. They started about 2 weeks ago and are spreading. I'm attaching two photos...I hope you can open them. I don't know if it's a fungus or bacterial infection. <A tough question. I, personally, think this is Columnaris or some other (severe) bacterial infection. Good photo, BTW.> I've been treating the tank with Maracyn for 8 days now. Initially, there was a small red spot in the white patch that's gone now. The Cory hides but eats actively (sinking wafers and shrimp pellets) and his breathing seems normal. Both seem to tolerate the Maracyn. <I don't think Maracyn (Erythromycin) will treat Columnaris; even if this is something else bacterial, I doubt that Erythromycin is the way to go; it only treats gram-positive bacteria (that's bacteria that have a cell wall); there are few gram-positive bacteria responsible for illness in fish.> <<This is incorrect: The difference between "gram positive" bacteria and "gram negative" bacteria has to do with how they take up (or don't) a type of violet stain (re: peptidoglycan w/in cell walls) .  Try Googling, or view here  Marina>>

My tank and mistakes: -- 7 gal, power filter with venturi tube, sponge filter, heater, light, live plants, driftwood. -- 1 male Betta, 2 panda Corys (at most 4). -- temp 80F, ph 7.0, total ammonia < 0.1ppm (was zero before Maracyn), nitrites 0ppm, nitrates 5ppm, dGH 2, dKH 2. -- 30-40% water change and gravel vac every other day, Amquel, Nutrafin Cycle every other change. Temp change 1-2 degrees after change. <This is too much maintenance, once the tank's cycled.> -- mistakes: --didn't cycle properly and overfed; lost 2 Corys due to high ammonia. --problems keeping temp and pH stable; okay now. --initially fed Betta live tube worms <Tubifex worms, perhaps? Try to avoid these; Blackworms are safer (as in, less prone to passing along disease to your fish).> and now some are living in the gravel. I vacuum but can't seem to get rid of them. Maybe the substrate wasn't clean enough. <This is okay. The worms in the substrate aren't of significant concern unless they are very numerous.> --Two other Corys gradually got sick. <Ammonia again? Or this illness?> --one died after one dose of Maroxy; did quick water change and stopped. --another died after one dose of Maracyn II, same. I feel terrible about losing these fish. Is there anything I can do if the Maracyn doesn't work? <I've shown this to Bob, as well.... his recommendation is to treat with aquarium salt and a furan compound.... might read here for more: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/furancpdfaqs.htm .> I don't want to add another chemical or medicine that might do more harm than good. <The Maracyn likely will not be of help here.> I won't add new fish. Through all this, my Betta has been very active, eating heartily, and seemingly oblivious. <I would remove him from this system immediately, lest he contract the illness as well. Normally I would recommend the opposite, removing the infected fish to a separate quarantine/hospital system, but I would be fearful for the Betta right now.> Thanks for your expertise! --Anita <Wishing you the best, -Sabrina>

Panda Cory with Milky Film - II - 10/21/2005 Hello Sabrina again, <Aloha.> Thank you for your advice on treating my panda Cory with the bacterial infection. I set up a small 2.5 gal tank with power filter, heater, new gravel, two new live plants, and some decorations, then moved my Betta into it. Since the tank isn't cycled (I didn't use gravel from my main tank, due to the infection), I am monitoring the ammonia and doing 50% water changes every other day. He is settled and healthy, his normal self, though a bit cramped. <All sounds good for now.> I am relieved he's safe. In my 7 gal main tank with the two panda Corys, I added aquarium salt (dissolved in water) and began treatment with Furan 2 (two courses for 8 days). Today is the last day. The tank parameters are still: temp 80F, pH 7.0, total ammonia 0ppm, nitrites 0ppm, nitrates 5ppm. I have good news and bad news, plus more questions if you can help. <Alright! Let's get started.> First the good: Both Corys tolerated the treatment. The healthy one looks the same with no sign of infection. The sick one still has energy, eats a lot, and swims around. He has actually grown bigger in the three weeks since the white patches appeared. <Wow.> (He is the only Cory that developed these white patches.) Both seem to be breathing normally with no redness around the gills. Now the bad: The white patches don't seem to have reduced in size or thickness. It's difficult to tell if they've spread, but there might be a new patch on his right side. The past few days, I've noticed he darts and jerks more when he swims and hides more often. I looked at a close-up photo and was astonished to find that his left pectoral fin is gone! It was definitely there 5 days ago.

Panda before Furan2 treatment.

Panda post-Furan2.

<Did you start medicating with a Furan compound yet?> I am attaching photos. Since this infection started, his left side seemed to swell and bulge around the pectoral fin. Since he's grown bigger, it's hard to tell if there's still a bulge. I plan to do a partial water change and put back the carbon filter as recommended on the Furan 2 package. <Mm, you should remove the carbon when you start treating with the Furan 2.> Should I keep the aquarium salt in the water or gradually remove it with water changes? <Fine to leave the salt in, as long as it is no more than 1 tablespoon per five or ten gallons.... less is better with Corys.> Is there another treatment I can try? <Have you started the Furan 2 yet? I would give it a second go, if you're already done with the first round.> Can his fin grow back? <Possibly, but also possibly not. Not to worry, though, he can live without a pectoral fin if it does not grow back.> Is it possible he can make it or does this mean he will slowly get worse and suffer more? What is the best and kindest thing I can do for him now? <In all honesty, I don't know his chances. It's a pretty bad infection. However, if he's still eating, I think there's still hope. I would give it a second round with the Furan 2, and if that still fails, I would consider going to something "stronger", perhaps Oxytetracycline....> Thanks for your help, --Anita <All the best to you and your fish, -Sabrina>

Panda Cory with Milky Film - III - 10/22/2005 Hello Sabrina, <Ahoy thar, matey!> <<Hey.. talk like a pirate day was last week!>> Thanks so much for your quick reply! <Sure thing.> To clarify, I ended 8 days of treatment with Furan 2 yesterday. (The package says to use it for 4 days, then you may repeat if necessary, which I did. <Ah, I see.> I cut open the capsules to get the right dosage for my 7 gal tank. I don't know if there's a better way. <Mm, probably that was right to do.> <<Please note: this stuff can stain clothes permanently.  MH>> I washed my hands immediately afterwards.) Three days after starting the Furan 2, I took a photo that shows the pectoral fin. Five days after that, another photo showed the fin was gone. (Without the photos, it's hard to compare how he's doing since he moves so fast.) <At least he's still acting well!> I removed the carbon during the treatment and just put it back yesterday. Today the water is clear again instead of greenish from the Furan 2. Is it okay to continue the Furan for another 4 days (for 12 total days)? <Actually, I would not.> It's hard to tell if it made a difference (except he's still here!). Do you have a recommendation for an Oxytetracycline product? I'll look for some today. <Having discussed this with Bob, I wish to recommend that you use Acriflavine in the water, instead.... Methylene Blue if you can't find Acriflavine. In addition to this, a food medicated with Oxytetracycline is a really, really good idea. Here is one place to purchase such a product: http://flguppiesplus.safeshopper.com/29/cat29.htm?264 . Otherwise, you can make this yourself, if you can find Oxytetracycline.... or could use tetracycline.... or other antibiotic.... This article contains a passage about preparing your own medicated foods: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/holedispd.htm .> Thank you! -Anita <Sure thing. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>