question re: TB, and Fin damage - 4/3/08
Good day,
First off I want to thank you all for this extremely valuable resource for us fishkeepers and your time and knowledge- You have saved a many of fish I assure you.
Couple questions: In my 100 gallon main tank I have 4 Bala sharks that are still fairly young. The tank is cycled with Am-0 ,nitrite-0, nitrate-10- There are lots of Amazon sword plants and a few other plants I am not sure of. All except one of the Bala's have either frayed or split fins but are otherwise very healthy and growing fast. Should I be concerned or should I just keep a watchful eye on them?
<Yes, be worried. Either Finrot (caused by poor water quality, regardless of what your test kits say) or physical damage (fighting/fin-nipping). Treat with anti-Finrot medication, e.g.. Maracyn or eSHa 2000, but not Melafix or "tonic salt".>
The one with fins intact seems to have a belly unlike the others so I don't know if they are squabbling over "her " or what. Some of my other inhabitants can be fin nippers so I realize that this is not the only possibility.
<Remove the fin-nippers to another tank.>
My next question involves Goldfish (a.k.a zebra Danios) I went to my dads last night (not the best fishkeeper) and I saw that his Goldfish was sort of floating vertically, listlessly. Not only that but he has a definite "bump" or hunched back (see attached pic, hopefully you can see it) I am not sure of his water parameters but I snatched him, brought him to my house and put him in my QT tank so my dad wouldn't flush him. After researching I have concluded that it could be either be TB or just old age (even though I don't think he's more than a year old but one "expert" stated that Danio's can get a hunch back just as they age (I don't know how reliable they are)
<One year isn't "old" for a Danio. They easily live for 3+ years when properly cared for.>
Well, immediately after getting into my QT tank he has perked up and is swimming around and everything...He "acts" like he is eating but I honestly think he is just spitting it back out- its hard to say for sure. Do you think it is indeed TB
<Unlikely; quite rare in freshwater fish. I'd simply feed him up and see how he does. Nothing to lose. If he gets fatter and healthier, then he'll be fine; if not, painlessly destroy.>
and if so, exactly how do I disinfect my tank after he "succumbs"
<Clean and air dry the hospital tank.>
and what do you recommend as an ideal method for Euthanization (I realize everyone has their own opinions but I am looking for the easiest for both me and the fishy) I am nervous about using bleach to disinfect the tank because when I was a young'n I did and I guess I didn't rinse well enough because it killed all of my fish immediately :(-
<See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasiafaqs.htm
>
Lastly, (I know, sorry this is a lot) About two weeks ago I had a big oops. In my QT tank (at the time had 5 Neons and one female Pregnant guppy) I was stupid and decided to buy the cheapest heater there was. Well, little did I know there was absolutely NO safety feature on this thing whatsoever. I plugged it in and fell asleep woke up an hour later and the thermometer read 115 F !!!... Amazingly only 2 of the Neons and possibly the fry in "utero" didn't make it. In my frenzy I decided to forgo the "gradual" temp change rule and kept putting ice directly into the tank until it was WNL. Well, the second the ice started melting the lifeless fish that were laying on the bottom perked up and swam to the top to get more so I couldn't deny them. ANYWAYS- My question here is this: I know that this stress could very well open the doors to many of illnesses and now 2 of the surviving Neons have white areas on their body's that are opaque and completely block the "neon" and all color. Is this "neon tetra" disease or something else and how do I handle it? FYI I will never buy such useless and dangerous equipment again- I assure you.
<Observe for a while before deciding this is Neon Tetra Disease; stressed Neons will indeed lose their colour. But Neons with NTD also lose weight and become strangely shy, separating off from their school. NTD is unfortunately not curable.>
One more thing I promise....A month or so ago, I emailed in with problems regarding Dwarf Gourami's- I was told that it was probably DGD and it would be best to put them down. I did lose 2 but on the third I decided to try something. He had all the symptoms of DGD BUT the lesions.
<In that case, not DGD!>
Well, I treated with Parasite Clear for 4 days (it took two treatments to see results, I thought he was dead many times) a few weeks later he is better than he has ever been!! Has tons of energy and eats like a pig. I just thought that this might be helpful and others might be able to try this if they suspect DGD but want to try and save their pets.
Again, thank you all for all that you do and please know that I (as I am sure others) are extremely grateful for every second you devote to helping.
<Very nice to hear this story. It's worth repeating the point that while Dwarf Gourami Disease is a common reason Dwarf Gouramis get sick, not all sick Dwarf Gouramis have Dwarf Gourami Disease. Sometimes they get other things!>
Very Respectfully,
Grace
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: question re: TB, and Fin damage 4/4/08
Hi again,
You say that TB is unlikely in FW fish but after reading numerous pages on this site I've gathered the complete opposite.
<I don't agree with them. Fish TB has historically been cited by aquarists for all sorts of "mystery deaths", and recent work by scientists has certainly proven that some Mycobacterium strains are common in aquaria. But in my experience, almost all "mystery deaths" are better explained by other factors: Hexamita, poor water quality, genetics, use of feeder fish, and so on. In any event, because Mycobacterium is untreatable, you may as well try to concentrate on things you can fix, in the hope that the fish will recover. If it doesn't, no harm is done.>
Most other people state that if its an adult fish with a bent spine (and its even a Danio ((Glofish but they are the same thing))- at any rate tonight he's laying at the bottom of the tank barely breathing- Hopefully my husband gets home soon because I cant bring myself to euthanize him. Does this mean that this QT tank is now infected?
<What the Czech scientists who looked at Mycobacterium discovered was that the bacteria are present in 75% of fish tanks.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1055
In other words, you probably have the bacteria that could cause Fish TB anyway, but then so do I and so do most other fishkeepers. So why don't 75% of fishkeepers have fish dying from Fish TB? That's the question! While you should certainly clean the hospital tank as a precaution -- something you do with a hospital tank anyway -- don't bother getting paranoid about the Mycobacterium itself. By the way, the variety of Mycobacterium that can infect humans is the one most common in marine aquaria, Mycobacterium marinum.>
After reading your email I put two other sick fish in my QT tank with him (I found my black Sailfin molly with skin that looks like it is "decaying" he has holes in his Sailfin and body and the rest of his skin looks like its going to fall off) and the Neon (of which got even MORE white on his body after putting him in there.
<Mollies are never that healthy kept in freshwater tanks. The vast majority of Molly deaths come down to high nitrate and the wrong water chemistry, and I'd bet all the money in my pockets that that's the issue here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/mollies.htm
Neon Tetras are very prone to a disease called Pleistophora (or Neon Tetra Disease) that is incurable.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwdistrbshtart.htm
If you're suddenly getting a bunch of fish looking sick, then I'd first turn to my water test kits. Check the water quality. Neons and Mollies for example require completely different water chemistry, and choosing what's right for Mollies will stress/kill your Neons. So you have work to do there. I'd review nitrate especially, as that's a killer for Mollies. Neons need soft/acid water, and Mollies hard/basic water with salt added at a dose of about 6 grammes per litre.>
Have I gave these fish the death sentence? If they didn't have it already? If not how would you recommend me helping them?
<If the Neon has Pleistophora, it'd doomed so you may as well destroy it painlessly. Mollies usually recover quickly when kept in brackish or marine aquaria, so that's what's required there. As for the Danio, it doesn't look that good to me.>
With my Balas in my 100 gallon how do you recommend I treat that? Like I said they do have some spits/ and frays on some of their fins but otherwise act VERY healthy and seemingly fine.
<Depending on where you are, you'd use different medications. In the UK, I've found eSHa 2000 very safe and effective. Americans like to use Maracyn instead.>
I am hesitant to treat in this tank because its my main and so large yet I cant put them in the small 10 gallon with all the other terminally ill fish-
<Treating the fish in the 100 gallon tank is fine. Used correctly, no modern fish medication should cause undue stress on the fish.>
Ugh...Couldn't I just put in some salt and keep and eye on the fins?
<No. Salt doesn't really have any useful impact on Finrot. Salt can help with Fungus, but only up to a point. Anyway, the salt would stress these freshwater fish rather more than medication.>
And if they start to get any worse treat the whole tank with Maracyn like you said?
<No.>
What a mess I have here. I really shouldn't have "saved" this hunchback Glofish from my dad but at the time I didn't know I had two other "sick" fish.
<No good deed goes unpunished!>
The Molly started with a shimmy and I had him in the qt tank for a few days with salt- put him back in the main tank and 3 days later looks horrible.
<Precisely. I know people sell Mollies as freshwater fish, but they really aren't reliable as such. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.>
and was either laying on the bottom listless or hiding in my deco. in the past 24 hrs. I haven't slept in 2 days because I am trying to change all the water and take care of all of these issues ( I can only do it at night when my baby is sleeping) so if this is a little hard to follow I apologize. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
<Gosh, I'm sorry you're having such a bad time! Obviously you have to put children before animals. This being the case, painlessly destroying sick fish would be completely understandable. Lesser of two evils.>
V/R Grace
<Cheers, Neale.>