3 dead yoyo loaches?   8/19/06
<<Hi, Melinda. Tom with you.>>
I have a 75g fresh water tank with 1 Convict Cichlid(4 months), 2 African Butterflies(4 years), 1 Albino Cory(9 years), and 3 feeder guppies (too quick for the butterflies).  All has been fine until tonight.  I came home to all 3 of my Yoyo Loaches(4 months) dead tonight.  
<<Very sorry to hear this, Melinda.>>
No signs of illness, eating and very active yesterday.  All 3 are very pale in color and covered in a thick slime? Velvet??  
<<Velvet typically exhibits a "dusty" look - sort of rusty looking. Columnaris, at its worst, makes the fish appear like it's wrapped in a cocoon. I suppose either may appear to be a heavy "slime" coating, depending on the fish.>>
All of my other fish are fine, so far.  I tested my water pH 7.5, Ammonia 0, Nitrates 0, Nitrites 0.  Temp. is always set at 80.  I did a 25% water change last week, I use Prime from Seachem with all my water changes.  I have had this tank set up and running for over 6 years. I have never had any disease or parasites before and I don't know what to think.
<<If I were going to pick a "culprit", I'd look to the Guppies. You don't mention how long they've been "dodging" the Butterflies but I assume these were the most recent additions to the tank. I recently became aware of another uncommon situation - through Bob - where a brand of water conditioner had been found to become tainted with live bacteria. Not your brand but another reputable product. I'd remove the Guppies to another container, if possible, and observe your other fish closely. I'd also consider spending the money on a fresh bottle of Prime to be on the safe side. Seems unlikely to me that the Prime is responsible due to the rapid demise of your Loaches but absent any other solid evidence of what might have happened, I wouldn't risk pets that I've had this long for a few dollars.>>
Thank you for any and all help.
<<If anything else comes to mind, Melinda, please post back to us. Best of luck with this. Tom>>

Spotted Dojo Loach Issues   8/18/06
Well, I bought a spotted dojo loach yesterday,
<"Oh boy. About a lucky man who made the grade...">
and so far he rarely moves.
<Mmm, not atypical>
He so far resides in a 20 gal. tank along with 2 albino Corydoras, a male platy, a crab, and up until maybe an hour ago an atrocious male blue
gourami. The man I talked to when I bought the crab and loach said they'd all do fine together.
<Ah, negative>
When I released him into the tank, he just kind of shivered and shook around a little every time another fish touched him. This morning, I was almost certain he was dead. He was upside down, appeared not to be breathing, and when I poked him and flipped him over he didn't move and his body was rigid. I left and came back a few minutes later and he was breathing.
<Can be comical>
My blue gourami then decided to eat his fins, which I put a stop to and removed him (he nearly killed a female blue gourami from constantly chasing her around and biting at her and eating almost all of her fins). A little bit later the crab decided to pick him over, so I poked at the crab to get him to leave   the loach alone.
<Needs to be removed... the crab... now>
The crab finally decided plant bulbs were a better meal.
Again, I left for a little while, and when I came back, he wasn't breathing again. I stayed and watched a little while again, then left yet again. This
time, I returned, and now his head is poked in-between a shell and an un-grown plant bulb, so apparently he's still alive, if not only by a thread. I'm
going to get my water checked tomorrow, but I'm pretty certain I don't have a problem with nitrate (4 healthy live plants and water treatment to take
care of it). The only issue I can think of is that my tank is too hot for it (around 78 F).
<Maybe... if this animal was being kept in much cooler water... however this species can live in tropical conditions...>
Well, after just checking the temp, I'm pretty sure it's dead. It seems to have blood around its tailfin and he's not breathing or moving at all. I really like these fish and would like to know if my current condition has the ability to support a loach.
<Oh yes>
I can't really control the temp,
<Mmm, yes you can in an important way>
my heater has been off for quite a long time (few weeks), so right now my tank is   just at room temperature.
<... I'd set it at the 78 F. mark... it won't "turn on" if the water is warmer...>
I'm still fairly new to maintaining an aquarium, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time and sorry for the longwinded email, I just wanted to give the whole story.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/cobitids.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Dojo On His Way Out   8/19/06
Every time I firmly come to the conclusion that the fish is dead, he starts breathing. He has a little blood around his fins still, and often goes extensive periods of time without breathing. Is he dead and just having muscle spasms, or is he under an immense amount of stress? Every time I get ready to fish his lifeless body out of the tank, his gills start moving up and down. He hasn't really moved (that I've seen) ever since he'd wiggle around whenever something touched him (yesterday). Currently he's sitting upside down in the corner of the tank and only really breathes every couple of minutes. His gills move for maybe 20 or 30 seconds, then it slows to nothing. Is there no hope for my fish, or is doing the best job of playing dead known to man?
< Although your little dojo is quit resilient he is probably going through his last stages of life. Dojos like cool clean water with a smooth substrate. Coarse sands and gravels are very abrasive and can cause numerous abrasions that can become infected. the bloody areas around the fins indicate a bacterial infection that can be treated with antibiotics like Nitrofurazone or Kanamycin. These work best when the water is clean and the are no heavy minerals in the water.-Chuck>

Dojo On His Way Out II   8/19/06
Just thought I'd tell you he died. He had stuff growing off of his side (did a little search and am guessing it had columnaris, probably wrong), and a little bit of blood on his tailfin (guessing from the gourami).
< The white stuff is probably a fungus that feeds on dead tissue. The bloody areas are still probably bacterial.>
The crab only picked at him that one time that I saw, and the rest of the time just kind of walked past him and ignored him. Also, I have my heater set as low as possible and haven't seen the indicator light on in a long, long time. I live on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, so room temperature is around 75 or 76 most of the time. On a completely different topic, can fish grow back a majority of their fins if most of it is gone? My female gourami seems to be growing a little bit of fin back. Again, thanks for your time, and thanks for the response to the first email!
< As long as the damage is not down to the body of the fish then the fins should grow back. Fins that have fungus damage should be clipped back down to healthy fin tissue so they will grow back.-Chuck>

Troubles with Ich   7/7/06
Hi,  Larry here.   My son started a FW 20g planted tank with Cardinals, Blue Rams, Thread fins and a Clown and Kuhli loach.  Unfortunately the clown loach had ich.
< Common problem with this fish.>
We treated with Maracide which is basically Malachite green as directed on the bottle and the ich disappeared for a few days only to come back.  So we retreated 2 more times and the ich has returned.  We raised the temp to 82F and switched to Quick cure which is M.Green and formalin and have had no luck in effecting a cure.  The tank uses a Fluorite gravel.  Do you think the Fluorite is absorbing the malachite?
< No but any organics would absorb this medication.> <<Could easily be. RMF>>
The water does not stay blue green very long.  Our plants by the way have done very well through all this. We have now moved all the fish to a 29g QT tank that I normally use for my Marine fish.  We are now treating with Cupramine copper.  Now how long do we have to leave the 20g fallow before we can put our fish back into the tank?
< At 82 F the ich parasites need a host. They will die in 7 days without a host fish.>
I was also thinking about treating the 20g tank with Epsom salts as I have read in WWM FAQ's that this can be effective, what's your opinion on this?
< Salt increases the slime coat on the fish and make it more difficult for the parasite to get established on the fish. You don't want to add too much because this will also increase the slime coat over the gills and prevent the fish from breathing properly.>
We also have an African frog and some Japonica shrimp which have survived the Malachite and formalin much to my surprise.  It is my understanding that they do not act as hosts or reservoirs for ich.  Will they be ok if we treat the tank with Epsom salts and what dose do I use?
< I think your problem is that you don't let the medication stay in the water long enough. If I had ich in my tank I would do the following. Raise the temp to 82 F. This makes it more difficult for the parasite to survive because at higher temps, water has less holding capacity for oxygen. Secondly I would do a 50% water change. This automatically removes 50% of the free swimming parasites. Third I would clean the filter and remove any carbon. Fourth I would vacuum the gravel to remove any organics and make any medication more effective. Then I would treat with Rid-Ich by Kordon. It is a combination of malachite green and formalin. Follow the directions on the package. I would add a teaspoon of rock salt per 5 gallons of aquarium water. The ich should be gone for good in a week. Now to prevent any further outbreaks I would get a quarantine tank. No fish goes into the main tank without a minimum two week quarantine period. Much easier and cheaper to medicate in the QT tank.-Chuck>
What a frustrating mess,  I have a 120g FOWLR marine tank that I tore down because of battling ich for over a year thanks to a blue tang that I FW dipped and QT for 2 weeks.  Thanks for the advice and all the wealth of knowledge that the WWM crew supply.
Larry, basking in the sun in Minnesota! <<... need to remove the shrimp, frog... and I'd raise the temp. to the mid to upper 80's F. RMF>>

Sick weather loach  - 06/22/2006
<<Hello, Andrea. Tom with you.>>
I purchased a weather loach 4 weeks ago. For the past week he has just laid on his back, hardly moving. His body looks twisted and he eats very
little. Nitrite and nitrate levels are ok, and the other fish and weather loach are ok. Can you help?
<<Andrea, you haven't given us a lot to go on here. Bless you for being concerned about your pet but telling us that certain parameters are "ok" isn't specific enough. This isn't aimed at just you but for all of our readers. At the minimum, we need to know what the "exact" readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels are. In short, you can't give us too much information since one tiny thing, to you, may tell us everything we need to know.  All I can do here is guess and that guess would be that your fish was sick when you purchased it or, is not, genetically, "up to par". Sad as this sounds, it does happen.>>
Regards, Andrea.
<<My best, Andrea. Tom>>

Yoyo Loach Diagnosis Help    6/14/06
I have a 30 gallon Amazon planted tank setup in my office.
<Sounds nice!>
It had cycled for quite some time and successfully sustained a healthy skunk Cory cat, so last week I added fish. Because the setup is in my office and the fish were ordered, I decided not to quarantine.
<We've all made that decision at one time or another, and sometimes you get lucky.  Many of us have also learned the value of quarantining new livestock the hard way...>
The new fish are yoyo loaches (to handle the snails), blue rams, and Apisto cichlids. Everyone seemed healthy and when I left work on Friday, nothing unusual was detected. Monday I got to work and immediately noticed the yoyos breathing heavily. That was the only symptom I saw most of the day. By the end of the day, I caught one of them flashing, but not frequently. The other fish in the tank seem to be breathing a bit quickly, but it isn't labored. Other than the breathing and occasional flash there are
no symptoms, and everyone is active and eating.
<Have you recently tested the water parameters? You added a substantial amount of livestock at one time, and perhaps the biological setup wasn't quite ready for all of those fish at once.  I'd take an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading ASAP and do a substantial water change.  The flashing and labored breathing can all be symptoms of toxins in the water...>
From experience with my reef tank, I have learned it is best not to panic and over medicate...
<This is true!>
...so I am not quite sure what to do here.  My water parameters are good- no ammonia or nitrite, and 20 ppm nitrate; ph at 6.5, temp was 78, but I am raising it as a precaution.
<OK - that's good.  When you added the fish, did you slowly acclimate them to their new water, or just plop them in? If it was the latter, the fish could be exhibiting symptoms of shock from the drastic change...>
I did a 30-40% water change last night
<Great!>
and have added "ich attack" this morning...
<Not great...>
...as it is a safe, all purpose herbal treatment.
<Or so the manufacturer says...>
I do not want to use salt in this tank because of the plants and loaches...
<Understandable and wise.>
...and I have not seen any white spots yet, so I don't know if ich is even the right diagnosis.
<It doesn't sound like ich based on your description, rather like something toxic in the water.  Additionally, it's a very bad idea to medicate your main tank, as you will likely destroy the beneficial bacteria colonies you worked so hard to establish by cycling the tank (even if the medication claims the opposite).  Based on what you've said, I can see no reason to use any sort of ich medication, so if it were me, I'd stop using that medicine and do enough water changes to remove the medication ASAP.  Loaches, being a scaleless fish, are extremely sensitive to certain medicines, and it is possible they won't react well to it.>
On hand I have both the antibacterial and antiparasitic jungle labs medicated foods, but no other medication.
<Based on what you are telling me, I don't see a reason to use either at the moment...>
One confession I must make for full disclosure - the initial snail
outbreak was unbelievable. Deciding that I would prefer to die by poison rather than being eaten, I used the golden rule on the snails and used the "had a snail" copper treatment (no fish at that time). The snails were totally unaffected. After running carbon for several weeks and a major water change, the fish were added. My husband thinks the loaches could have gotten sick from eating the snails if they were holding some level of copper in them- is this possible?
<It's entirely possible, and it's also possible there is residual anti-snail medication still in the water.  Loaches are very sensitive, and I think the best thing you can do is to do regular (e.g., daily) water changes for the time being - 50% would not be excessive.  This is in line with my initial diagnosis of a toxin in the water.  See if the loaches behavior improves with the significant water changes, and if not, then your husband's theory is likely correct.  I know how difficult it is to battle FW snails, and ultimately, you may have to break down the entire tank, bleach it, and start from scratch.  I think, though, based on the fact that some of your other fish were showing signs of toxicity, that the increased water changes will help, if not solve, your problem.  You may also want to change your carbon filter again, and look into a supplemental filter media called a "PolyFilter" - I like to call that the "wonder-sponge" for absorbing all sorts of "nasties" from the water.>
I welcome any suggestions you have- this website has been incredibly helpful with our other tanks, but I just couldn't find what I was looking for with this situation.
<I certainly hope I've helped.  Do browse through www.WetWebMedia.com's chat forum, and search "snail" and "loaches" - there's some interesting info. on that topic out there, if I remember correctly...>
Thank you,
Laura
<Good luck - I hope everything turns out OK. Jorie>

Re: Yoyo Loach Diagnosis Help PART 2  06/14/2006
Thank you for your answer.
<You're welcome.>
I knew the bioload was going to have some dramatic changes, but watching the parameters, I haven't noticed anything typical have a major spike. What is your experience with the Seachem ammonia alerts? In our reef tank we found it very accurate, but
I haven't before tried one in freshwater, and the one I have on this tank has stayed yellow/safe all along.
<Is this the type you "stick" onto the side of the tank? They are about as unreliable as the dip-stick type tests, in my experience/opinion.  I personally use the Tetra Master Test Kit for my FW system, which includes ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  The "liquid"-type tests are the most reliable.>
I have a real ammonia test that I'll use today.
<Excellent.>
One casualty on my arrival this morning, and it wasn't a loach. One of the rams was floating. Its gills were pale, but not brown, and it had lost all color, but I didn't notice anything physically wrong except that it was dead. Oh, it's eyes were red- that was odd. I'm trying to get a head count of the rest, but so far only see the loaches, which still look fine but for very fast breathing.
<Hopefully you've done a large water change since finding this casualty. Sorry you lost one.>
I've done a copper test and it doesn't show any copper still present in the water. This morning I replaced the carbon and added a new bag of Purigen. I'll do a water change ASAP, but the "p" in that acronym is tough because of my office. Worth it, certainly, but still tough.
<Yes, I noticed you are a lawyer - what type of law do you practice? In any event, I am sure you are busy! I myself am currently in law school...have to go finish reading for Conflict of Laws class tonight!>
I don't know that I have any more questions at this point, since this is a game of wait and see. I just wanted to respond and say thanks.
<You are welcome.  Do look into the PolyFilter (available on www.drsfosterandsmith.com - not a miracle worker, but very good at absorbing toxins in the H20.  And do keep up with the H20 changes - this is truly your best bet.  Good luck, Jorie.>

Re: Yoyo Loach Diagnosis Help PART 3  06/14/2006
Jorie-
I have some PolyFilter on the way (thanks for the suggestion), and a water change scheduled for tomorrow, thanks to my husband.
<Excellent!>
I am in real estate and environmental law- good luck in law school and feel free to email me if you get stressed or have questions. I am a very new lawyer, so I still feel your pain.
<Thanks for the offer, Laura - that's very kind of you! Law school truly is a painful experience, isn't it?  I'm planning on looking into working for the IL State's Attorney's office, or something similar.  I just started an externship at the 4th Municipal Dist. of Cook County, IL for the Presiding Judge, and am excited to work with so many ADAs, not to mention the judges.  Thanks again, and good luck to you also with your work and fish!  Jorie>
Laura Bauman

Loach with lumps  - 03/12/2006
Dear Crew,
<Chris>
I have a weather-loach in a 3-foot indoor tank, with two other goldfish. The loach is quite young (I think), about 4 to 5 inches long and I bought him/her last year.
<Neat animals>
Over the past six months or so, the loach has developed "bulges" in the abdominal area. There are two; one towards the front "third" of the body, and the other to the rear, just in front of the anal cavity. The bulges are visible on both sides of the fish. The loach appears healthy, however, and is active. I cannot find any information about swollen abdomens in loaches;
<Really? http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/loachdisfaqs.htm
on WWM>
one thought I had was, is this a female with eggs?
<Possibly>
but having never been sure whether my loach is Lawrence or Laura, I can't decide.
Up until last Christmas, there was a second loach in the tank; very old (22 years+)
<Wowzah!>
and again no idea whether it was a Larry or Lucy. Ideas welcomed, please. I tried to take photos but no luck at present.
Chris (UK).
<Don't know the precise cause/effect here, but have seen similar conditions in Misgurnis... as you state, doesn't seem to affect their health. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Clowns?  Uhh, Clown Loaches? - 11/25/2005
I do hope you can give me some insight as to what may be going on with my clowns....
<Clowns....  Freshwater....  I'm going to have to assume you mean clown *loaches* here, yes?>
I have a 35gal tank and I have 4 clowns aging from 6 yrs to 12 yrs old
<These are slow growing animals, but by 12 years of age, under proper care, they should be nearing a foot in length.  These animals should be in a much, much larger system, if this is the case.>
and I have never had any problems with them. Last night at feeding no one came out they all are staying in there hiding spot inside an urn. Now tonight I have lost one of my guys and I notice on him that the tips of his tail are white and a few spots.
<Not quite enough description, here....  If these are white spots like grains of salt, please read here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm and the files linked at the top of that page.>
I still have 3 that don't seem to have the spots but once again no one came out to eat.
<A bad sign.>
Also in the tank is an angel that does not seem to have any problems, so it is confined to my clowns.
<Mm, if it is ich, it is the entire tank that is infected.  But again, there's just not enough information to go off, here.>
Where do I start and what can I do???
<Start by testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.  Ammonia and nitrite must be maintained at ZERO, nitrate less than 20ppm.  If these are not so, fix them with water changes.  Beyond that, please read about health and disease here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm .>
Any help in this will be great.  Thank you,  -Dawn Tweedy
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Loaches, Ich, Salt, and Copper - 11/08/2005
Hi Crew,
<Hi Brian; Sabrina with you, today.>
First let me give my thanks, Bob Fenner replied back in late June concerning our highly alkaline well and the use of SeaChem's "Acid Buffer" on incoming water to bring our FW tanks down from a pH around 8.2-8.4 to a much more reasonable 7.0-7.2. After a lot of experimentation, it seems about 1/4 tsp Acid Buffer added to water mixed at 2:1 - 3:1, RO/DI: well does the trick, when combined with occasional small water changes at 6:1 RO/DI: well with no Acid Buffer to give back some alkalinity and thin out the GH. 
<Great.>
Now on to my questions. I've got a 29 gallon tank setup with 7 red swordtails, 2 honey gourami, and 8 checkerboard barbs. Water parameters consistently check fine - no ammonia, no nitrite, ~15mg/L nitrate. Two medium sized Amazon Sword plants, one medium tiger lotus grown from a bulb, and a small chunk of Java Fern reproduced from another tank. Water temperature is at 77 deg F, pH = 7.0. 
One of the swordtails, male, has been steadily looking worse and worse over the last month and a half or so, with no other symptoms apparent on any of the other fish. Best description I can give of the swordtail is that he's lost a lot of his color on the bottom half of his body. His lateral line is very evident as a greenish line down the length of his body, and most of the damage seems to be at or below his lateral line. The lower area near his tail has also really washed out. With the lights out, the bottom half of the fish looks almost grey, with lights on it is more a faded red with some silverish looking parts. I'm fairly certain it is not ick or any other transmissible disease as none of the other fish look at all affected. 
<Is possibly nerve damage.... from an injury, or developmental/genetic disease....>
My only theory is that he has been spending way too much time hanging out by the tank's heater, which is placed horizontally instead of vertically to try to provide more efficient heat dispersion. I've added an airstone near the heater to try to discourage him from resting from near/on the heater. 
<Even better, get a plastic guard to go around the heater, or wrap the heater in airline tubing with "gaps" between the coils of tubing if you are unable to find a guard for it - and couple this with the airstone.>
For about 2 days in a row, about a week ago, he was doing a little flashing on the Amazon Sword leaves and the bottom, but that seems to have subsided. I have not added any treatments to the tank, other than my usual water change schedule which includes a trace (less than 1/2tsp for 3 gal) of salt, along with 0.1mL/gal of SeaChem's "Prime", and Acid Buffer for pH. New water is aerated and temperature matched for about four hours pre-each water change, haven't set up a system for longer term aging of water yet but can certainly do so. 
<Your current maintenance sounds plenty adequate.>
He still eats readily (flake food and dried Tubifex worms, which he devours), does not appear to be struggling for air or otherwise moving erratically. Even before he showed any of these symptoms, back when he was much smaller and being reared only with the three other fry from his batch, he looked a little different -- he has always had a tinge of green and a much more readily visible lateral line compared to the other swordtails from the batch. All the other swordtails that made it beyond fry stage have survived, with the exception of one female that died a few weeks ago, pregnant, that we deemed to be physically incapable of giving birth. Back when he was a small small fry (looking back over my notes) there was one point where I was afraid he was going to die, acting very lethargic and darty and not swimming straight at all. I added a large amount of "LiquiFry" food and after eating that he seemed to perk back up and seemed okay for several months. 
<Quite possibly this is just genetic/developmental, then.>
His feces I must admit have appeared nothing but white and stringy for the past month or so, haven't seen anything that looks comparable to that of the other fish in the tank receiving the same food. 
<This is disconcerting.... I have to ask, are these Tubifex live? Please do be aware that live Tubifex (and even freeze-dried) can transfer parasites to your fish. If you must use live worms, please instead use Blackworms, which are much less hazardous (though there is still some degree of risk involved with them). Better still are bloodworms or other insect larvae.>
This fish (along with the other swordtails in the tank) is the offspring of a pair of swordtails we had months ago -- the father was a fish I was always worried about once we bought him, as he had a very obvious green coloration to him (along with the very visible lateral line) that I at first attributed to illness, then to just genetic makeup giving more of a wild type coloration.
<The green could indeed be just coloration - there are plenty of swordtails with prominent lateral striping and green coloration.>
Is this a nutritional deficiency? Genetic problem? Velvet? 
<I highly doubt velvet.>
Is he just sleeping on the heater and baking the color out of him? Any thoughts would be appreciated. We've already mourned his loss a week or two ago when he just looked a little worse than before (that's when I started feeding the Tubifex worms again), but he keeps fighting back and does not look ready to give up the ghost just yet. My apologies for the length of the question, I've just been battering around so many different possible theories for so long and don't want to just leave the guy to waste away. I'm going to try to get some pictures of him, but it's tough to get one where the degradation is clearly visible. It may be what I need to do is add more hiding places (tank has only plants and a large rock), in case the fish are just feeling that the heater is a safe, hidden spot, and burning themselves thusly. Our blood parrot cichlid (in yet another tank) managed to burn herself pretty well a couple years by leaning on the heater, ended up covered in black spots before the problem was fixed with a higher tank temp. 
<Please, please consider using guards or wrapping those heaters! They do present a danger to your fish.>
Second question, hopefully easier. We bought two clown loaches (2") at the LFS on 5 Nov. After getting them home and placing in the 10g QT tank, it was fairly obvious that one of them had ich. After a lot of reading I decided the thing to do was to get the temperature up (was at 77 deg F, now at 82 deg F, aiming for 85 deg F) and start adding salt to the tank. The QT tank is planted (good sized Java Fern, Amazon Sword almost too big for the tank, plus some floating Wisteria), so I know the salt may not be good for the plants but I can handle plants dying much better than fish doing so. The next day (6 Nov), figuring that the QT tank was already exposed to ich and that the clowns would be happier with more than just two around, we went ahead and got three more that the LFS had from the same tank, also obviously exposed to ich. Maybe that was a stupid move, bringing more ich to the QT tank, but I wanted to try to reduce stress on the clowns by increasing their numbers. 
<I must point out that it is almost invariably a bad idea to purchase fish with obvious symptoms of disease....>
Also bought some Aquari-Sol (copper sulfate salts) at the same time, but have not dosed any into the tank yet. 
<I wouldn't.>
By this point, I figure I have added a little over 2 tbsp of salt to a tank with estimated 9 gallons of water, over a couple days. 
<You'll need a LOT more than that. Please read this article: http://69.44.152.177/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32 .>
The loaches are eating well, they've nearly de-snailed the entire tank already. I know I need to find some longer term foods for them, and that they sure won't be living in the 10g any longer than they have to beat the ich. So, my treatment plan is this: Increase tank temperature to 85 deg F and keep it there. Increase salt levels in the tank to some number of teaspoons per gallon (wish I had a way to measure salinity down in the 1.00X ranges). 
<A refractometer is really your best bet, here, followed by a hydrometer that measures low levels.... there are at least two brands readily available, of box- swing-arm type hydrometers that do read quite low levels. Just be aware that there is some significant degree of inaccuracy.>
Removed carbon from the filter (Whisper 10), added an airstone on a pump for more oxygenation of the warmer water. Replaced the Purigen in the filter with fresh Purigen (~15mL), in hopes that the synthetic beads may be capable of removing some of the encysted or free swimming ich,
<Mm, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.>
I'm prepared to replace the Purigen every 48hrs or so if that's a valid theory, or just leave as is if not. If there is no obvious improvement in about three days from now, my plan would be to begin dosing the Aquari-Sol at about 50% of the label directions (12 drops per 10 gallons per label, I would add about 5 drops to the tank) and test copper levels frequently, combined with daily water changes to combat ammonia/nitrite buildup from loss of nitrifying bacteria. 
<Try to avoid the copper if at all possible.... Salt and heat alone should affect a cure.>
My hope is the plants may help with some of the excreted ammonia if the salt/copper/heat do not completely hose their metabolism. I've used SeaChem's "Flourish Excel" in the past in the tank to provide more available carbon to the plants, have stopped for now to deal with ich but can continue if increased plant respiration would be indicated. I'm even considering eyedroppering in a little bit of 22ppm colloidal silver. 
<I wouldn't.>
Is this a reasonable treatment plan? I've seen people say copper salts work great with loaches at low doses for ich, but I've seen just as many say not to ever use copper with loaches. 
<I am more of the latter batch of folks - though have used copper in the past with success. I am much more a proponent of salt in this case.... Less harmful to the animals.>
Are my salt levels within an order of magnitude of what could be expected to help? 
<Not yet.>
Is it pointless to try to treat with simply heat + salt, and instead I should be getting the minimal dose Aquari-Sol in there ASAP? 
<Mm, as above, heat and salt WILL work, at the proper levels.... you'll get there, no worries!>
I've purchased a copper test kit and verified no free copper in the tank at this time, so I should be capable of maintaining an appropriate level of copper if it comes to that. I really appreciate the time taken to read and consider these issues. -Brian Pardy
<And thank you for your kind words. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Loaches, Ich, Salt, and Copper - II - 11/11/2005
Hi Sabrina, thanks for your reply concerning our swordtail and loaches. To answer some of your specific questions:
"<This is disconcerting.... I have to ask, are these Tubifex live? Please do be aware that live Tubifex (and even freeze-dried) can transfer parasites to your fish. 
If you must use live worms, please instead use Blackworms, which are much less hazardous (though there is still some degree of risk involved with them). Better still are bloodworms or other insect larvae.>"
They are freeze-dried Tubifex, and honestly they're probably pretty old and lacking in nutrition. I just started feeding the Tubifex to him/that tank a week or so ago, long after he was already displaying those symptoms when I was thinking he could have a nutritional deficiency from relying too much on flake food. We do have bloodworms in huge quantities for the cichlid, I've been hesitant to give them to the swordtails as I recall their father (sire?) seemed to get constipated from them before, and I usually ended up feeding peas afterwards.
<<I would perhaps in this case try to find "glassworms".... also an insect larvae, it is my opinion that these are safer than Tubifex.>>
I will absolutely be looking into a heater guard, I hadn't heard such devices existed before. 
<<Umm, let's see.... Ah! Here: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/category.xml?pcid1=3231;category_id=2913  .>>
Let me also correct what I said in my original mail, our cichlid managed to burn herself a couple years AGO, not FOR a couple years... 
<<Heh! I gotcha.>>
I'll add that in the past two days, since adding the bubbler near the heater, this swordtail's feces have appeared significantly more normal, to where he's actually passing something that looks the right color. Hooray, green poop!
<<Too much Kool-Aid. Why is it that, no matter WHAT color Kool-Aid I drink, it always makes my poo green? Another of the world's great mysteries....>>
"<I must point out that it is almost invariably a bad idea to purchase fish with obvious symptoms of disease....>"
I know.  We didn't know enough about them at first, purchased two, and then had pretty much already decided they would be more comfortable with more clowns before realizing they had ich. Understanding that I had to treat the tank anyway, I figured adding more would reduce stress on the two already in the tank. I know I'm not going to get anybody on WWM to tell me that was a good idea, it probably wasn't. 
Unfortunately the LFS is moving from one building to another, and we let ourselves get sucked into buying fish on sale at a time when they probably weren't paying enough attention to their health. But then, these loaches were in a 40g long tank at the shop that we've already paid for and will pick up once the other fish in it have moved, could take forever with ich-laden fish in the tank. If nothing else I know that tank needs to dry out and get scrubbed down real well once it comes home. 
<<Can use diluted bleach, or vinegar.... Also, be certain to discard any substrate or decor that was in the tank at the store.>>
At least I got a nice Emperor 400 @ 50% off for future tanks.
<<Sweet!>>
"By this point, I figure I have added a little over 2 tbsp of salt to a tank with estimated 9 gallons of water, over a couple days."
<You'll need a LOT more than that. Please read this article: http://69.44.152.177/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32 .>
Thanks for that pointer. There are so many different takes on the issue online, it's nice to be directed to a particular one. I'm going to continue to slowly increase my salt concentrations and continue frequent water changes. I found an "Instant Ocean" hydrometer that I should be able to use to monitor my salinity levels, and the propane heater in the room helps me to maintain elevated temperature. 
<<If of the "swing arm" type, it will likely not be very accurate, and is not the best way to go when trying to measure very low levels of specific gravity.  A lab-grade float hydrometer would be MUCH better, not much more expensive.  MH>>
<<Excellent.>>
I'd really like to avoid using copper. 
<<Agreed. Think very long and very hard before you resort to copper, and know that ANY porous material (substrate, decor, etc.) will be rendered useless to you if ever you wish to keep invertebrates, including shrimp.>>
<<Mmm.. not quite, please see "Live Rock and Copper Help" just below.  MH>>
<<<Article mentioned above was on the dailies....  to find it now, enter those words in our Google search bar.  -SCF>>>
I appreciate your response, Sabrina, and those of all the other WWM Crew, to my and others' questions. What you're doing here really does help keep fish alive and happy.
<<Your kind words are of great value to us.... Thank you very, very much.>>
-Brian
<<Wishing you well, -Sabrina>>

Dojo Loach Lump   2/7/06
I have two dojo loaches, i bought them both at the same  time but one of them developed a lump on his side.
<Have seen this/these more and more...>
He has a hard time swimming  and he won't eat unless i put the food right in front of his mouth, he mostly  lays on his other
side with his head in the air. The other one seems fine. He  has been like this for a while and it hasn't killed him but he doesn't seem very  happy. Do
you have any suggestions of what this may be and how i can get rid of  it?
<You might try the inexpensive use of Epsom Salt here (covered on WWM), but am not of a positive notion here... I suspect the origin/s of these lumps are developmental... exposure to poor water quality of some sort... tumorous in nature... and the fish either have and perish or not. Bob Fenner>

Clown Loaches sick or need therapy?   2/9/06
Hi-
<Hello there>
I bought six clown loaches this past fall (lost one right away but still have 5).  For the first few months they were very visible in the tank and
quite active; even clicking excitedly over their algae chips.
<Ah, yes>
But for the past few months, they spend almost all of their time hiding behind a few
pieces of slate that I have in the tank.  Nothing has changed in the tank  - not inhabitants or decor or plants (or outside the tank for that matter). Except that I did have 4 Rosy Barbs when I brought them home.  I'm down to one now so I'm wondering if a lack of dither fish could be the problem?
<Yes, could be... or perhaps whatever led to their loss>
The one Rosy doesn't seem to be as active as he was either.  The Corys and Gouramis behave the same and in fact the Gouramis may be more active than they were.  The loaches don't have visible signs of Ich but could a behavior change be a symptom?
<Yes, but you would see the spots... and quickly>
I'm especially wondering about the dither fish because I don't really want any more fish in the tank but I would get small active
fish if you think that could be the problem.
Thanks for all your help solving puzzling fish problems!
Holli
<I would be changing more water, more frequently, checking your temperature, water quality... to suit these fishes. Bob Fenner>

Re: Clown Loaches sick or need therapy?   2/10/06
Thanks for the speedy reply.  Actually after I lost the Rosies, I increased my water changes to at least 90% once a week.  
<This is too much at one time...>
Sometimes twice.  My water is too hard but it was hard for the first few months too. I'll try the dither fish and see how they like that.
Holli
<Real good. Bob Fenner>

Sick Fish?????
Robert (Bob),
I have two fish now that seem to have the same problem... From what I can figure out, it seems to be swim bladder disease.
<Mmm, but what is the cause/s of the swim bladder anomalies?>
Here are the symptoms.... The first fish, (Red Platy) I noticed about two weeks ago. He would seem to rest on the bottom of the tank and occasionally make a swim to the surface of the tank. After closer observation I noticed that he wasn't just resting on the bottom, but seem to be having trouble swimming. By which I mean, that it seem to take great effort to move from any given spot. Seem to move in place. After keeping close eye on the little guy for about a week I decided he wasn't getting any better. If anything it was worse. So at this time I place him in a 5 gal. quarantine tank. I added 1 tsp. of Aquarium salt and 1 tsp. of Fungus Eliminator by Jungle Labs. He's been in the quarantine for approx. 4 days now with no visible improvement, (doesn't seem to be getting worse either). Now I've noticed my second victim to this.... Prob. my favorite little guy in the whole tank. It's a beautifully colored clown loach. I've been watching him for the past two days in which he seem to rest on the bottom with very little movement and what seem to be heavy breathing with his mouth acting like it was gasping for air. He then decided to hide in one of the caves I have setup. He finally came out this evening and just sat there showing the same signs as when I saw him a couple of days earlier. I continued to watch him through the evening and he finally came to a resting point on the bottom against the front of the tank, ( kinda leaning toward one side... almost laying on one side.) At this point I placed him in the quarantine tank as well.
Now for my question.... Am I correct in the diagnosis?? 
<Mmm, you are to be commended for your keen interest, careful observations...>
Is there anything I'm doing wrong?? ( by the way, the tank does have a few live plants, and PH and Nitrate/Nitrite levels are all right on target) What can I do to correct this problem?? and get my little buddies feeling well again.
<I do believe the Platy is suffering more from "genetic" causes than anything else (not infectious, parasitic disease, nutritional deficiencies... and that it will get better or not... of its own accord (nothing more you can really do for it)... This livebearer does just "have problems" of this sort nowadays... sometimes, large numbers of imported livebearers show this symptomology. And the Clown Loach is really just doing "what Clown Loaches do"... in resting at odd angles, breathing hard at times, hiding in castles... Not to worry here. If you want to see it out more often, do consider adding one or two more. I would place it/him back in his main tank. 
Sincerely,
John R. Aulgur
<I am sending your note to a friend, Jeff, who is also a Clown Loach keeper. For his comments, input. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick Fish????? Clown Loach
Just wanted to update you on the Clown Loach situation. Unfortunately he passed away sometime last night. I found him on his side, not breathing,
and the color in his stripes slowly fading. Checked the chemistry of the tank and all seems fine...,(within required levels). Not sure as to what or
why he ended up this way, but as soon as I can find some more I will try again.... (of course after doing a little more research/reading). Thank you
once again for the help.
<Ahh, sorry to hear of your loss... this does happen with Clown Loaches at times... unfortunately. Less when they're in a group... and ones kept for months tend to live for years... sometimes many. My thoughts are with you. Bob Fenner>
Sincerely,
John R. Aulgur

Re: Sick Fish????? Clown Loach Jeff
I concur. The Clown loaches do rest at odd angles, sometimes on their backs or upside down! This is perfectly normal. So is the appearance of heavy
breathing. I've had three loaches for quite some time and they have always exhibited this behavior. Bob's right about getting more, the loaches love to
school and chase each other around all day long. We started with one and he was pretty sedentary until we added another. Our single loach would hide in
a small flower pot almost constantly until we got another. He's now grown from 1.5 inches to over six inches, so its impossible for him/her to fit
through the opening now.
<Ah, as good a response as I had hoped for>
As far as the platys, we have platys with our loaches as well and they seem to fall ill after 6 months to a year and gradually darken, start breathing
hard and then die. No other fish in this tank seem affected. Various attempts at treatments including salt and antibiotics in quarantine tanks
have failed to help. I have noticed that the pH can hasten this. A pH drop to below 6.8 for more than a couple of weeks will generally result in a
fatality or two. Since you are keeping plants, your pH is probably near neutral or slightly acidic. This might be something to look into.
<Thank you Jeff. See you soon. Bob Fenner/Dogfish>

Re: Sick Fish????? Clown Loach Jeff
Thank you for you quick response. Really helped to have someone who is more knowledgeable put my mind at easy quickly. Once again, thank you for your
help and quick response.
Sincerely,
John R. Aulgur
<A pleasure. And you did receive the response from Jeff? I cut/pasted it below. Bob Fenner>

Sick clown loach
Hi
I have two clown loaches in my aquarium for the last 2 weeks. Today I found him lying on the bottom of the tank and the colour in his stripes are slowly
fading. I know clown loaches are prone to lying on the bottom of the tank looking dead but it is the fading colour that is worrying me.
Do you have any idea what may be wrong with my loach??
<Very very likely nothing is wrong at all... Clown Loaches are notorious/well-known for both their brilliant, delightful coloring, markings AND clown-like behavior... Do check your water quality, perhaps offer some favorite food (like blood worms, tubificids...) and don't worry. If the other loach looks fine, and neither have symptoms of outright disease, they're likely fine. Am sending your note to our resident loach-man, Jeff, for his input. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Lisa

Re: sick clown loach
Hi Robert
My clown loach died today however the other one is still healthy and swimming around normally so hopefully it will stay healthy. The one that
died seemed to be smaller and had lost weight since we bought it.
Lisa
<Sorry to read of your loss. Have witnessed these mortalities in newly acquired Clown Loaches... consider that "something", likely parasitic or infectious, is wrong internally... not catching in most all cases. Bob Fenner>

Clown Loach Question
About two months ago I purchased a large (4-5") Clown Loach to add to my 72 gal bowfront aquarium. About 2-3 weeks ago he developed black spots over his body? 
<Don't know, does it?>
None of the other fish (5 Gouramis/5 Corys/1 pictus cat/2 balas) developed black spots. All the fish, including the loach continue to eat fine (dry flakes/fresh worms). 
<I see>
The water is clear, the ammonia and nitrate are basically nil. The water is 6.7ph. I do about 15% water changes every two weeks and vacuum the bottom. The live plants are not only doing well, I have a great crop of baby plants coming up. 
<Sounds good>
But I have a black spotted clown loach? The spots do not look like any type of parasite. Once in a while the loach will rub against some sandstone rocks, but its very infrequent (almost only for a couple of days after I change the water)? 
<Nothing to worry about in my estimation. This fish species does "scratch" quite a bit... and I've seen these "melanin" markings in them as well>
So are the black spots dangerous to the other fish? Is there anything I should do? 
<Enjoy your fish/es... Perhaps get it a pal... they are social animals... maybe a nice "castle" or other dark hiding, fun place for it to hang... Bob Fenner>
I appreciate any information you can provide me. Thanks - Mark Corrinet.

Re: Clown Loach Question
Thanks for the assistance. Your prior advise on the lighting for the tank worked very well also. My 5 year old son loves the tank. 
<Ah, good>
I am relieved that the clown is ok. I want to purchase him some friends, but large clown loaches are rare on the coast were I live and I have had a standing order for two more. So hopefully he will have more friends soon. There are lots of hiding places for him so that's not a problem. 
<Small companions would be fine here as well... and do grow quite quickly>
One other question. I want to add more fish to the tank, but anything small dies a rather sad death due to the pictus cat (4-5") (as I found out to late with ten neon tetras) and anything gentle like mollies or similar get stomped on by the Gouramis. They beat my beta almost to death before I saved him
and moved him to another tank (bad reason, but I did get another aquarium out of it).  I don't particularly like cichlids. Is there anything else I could add that you might suggest?
<Many things. Please consider the many Barbs, larger Danios... maybe even a freshwater "Shark". Please read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubwebindex.htm>
Also could I add one of those green puffer fish? Can they live in non-brackish water?  I know the puffers can nip fins (probably serve the Gouramis right), I would say it would be even money if the puffer can hold his own. (the Gouramis are one of the big blues, a white/gold color and three small grey blues. 
<I don't recommend a freshwater or more brackish water Puffer for your system... too much trouble, possible aggression. Stick with more easygoing, hardier species here>
Thanks for your continued kindness and information. Take care - Mark.
<You're welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

Ich & Loaches
I have one clown loach, two platys, and one African butterfly in my 10 gallon hex tank. I am new at this and just learning the ropes. I now have ick in the tank and am trying to find out what to do about it. I have used ick guard but am concerned as i continue reading that this may not be good for the loach. Please help on what to do?? I have a friend with the quick cure and she is recommending that for treatment. Any advice would be wonderful. N
<You should be able to treat with the Ick Guard but only use ½ of the recommended dosage. Ronni>

Clown Loach with Distended Stomach (05/29/03)
<Hi! Ananda here this morning...>
One of my clown loaches, "he's" only about 2.5" so still young, suddenly developed a heavily distended belly.  The fish is otherwise healthy and has been, swimming around, eating voraciously.  I did drop a pea in the tank earlier in the day.
<One of my clown loaches got rather bloated-looking once. I tried peas, but they weren't interested. I did some reading and found that it might have been their diet of mostly dry (and freeze-dried) foods. I took my bloated clown loach and put him in a hospital tank with one teaspoon of Epsom salts per five gallons of tank water. The next two days, I added another teaspoon each day, so I had a tablespoon of the Epsom salts per five gallons of tank water. I then fed the clown loach treats like frozen/thawed bloodworms, live blackworms, and even a few Mysis shrimp. In about a week, my clown loach looked like his more slender self. I did do a daily 5%-10% water change, adding back enough Epsom salt to keep the level up.>
But I also removed another clown loach from the tank that hadn't eaten in at least a week or two, and was "wasting away".
<What are you feeding them?>
All other parameters in the 30G tank are fine: ammo, nitrite, nitrate all at 0.  UV sterilizer running fine.  Other mates are 3 male rainbows not quite full grown, 6 cardinal tetras, 3 albino pristellas, a Rubbernose pleco and two baby dwarf Bristlenose (both under 2").
<Hmmmm. Depending on what kind of rainbows you have, I think you are either pushing the limits  or passing them on stocking this tank.>
Any idea what is with my clown loach's tummy and if I should be worried?
<If it isn't just bloat, it may be parasites. If that's the case, I'd suggest Metronidazole, at half dosage for double the duration.>
Or did he just swallow half of the pea (it broke in half upon entering the tank) and it is showing (seems unlikely to me)?
<If the swelling is visible for more than a few hours, it's not just an undigested pea... --Ananda >

Re: Clown Loach with Distended Stomach (05/30/03)
<Ananda here again>
Thanks.  I think it was something "he" ate!  Looks fine now (and did yesterday too).  Probably, he can't believe he ate the WHOLE THING!
<In other words, "Clown loach go >burp!<" ...  Thanks for following up with the good news... --Ananda>

Black Spots
<Hello! Ryan here>
I was researching your site but I couldn't find much on Black Spot on clown loaches. I had just transfer my clown loaches to a new 55 gallon, that was set up
for 8 months. Few days later so far what I can see 2 of them developed black spots on their bodies and fins. Please help, I heard that loaches are very
sensitive to medications because they don't have scales. Any recommendations? This is already 3 days later, hope I don't loose them. Thank you, hope to hear from you
soon. Iveta .
<1 drop per 2 gallons of Maracide should be fine.  This can be increased to 1 drop per gallon if needed.  Please do this in a quarantine to be safe.  Clown loaches can be on the sensitive side- so add the Maracide gradually.  It's the sudden change in aquarium conditions that are deadly.  Best of luck! Ryan>

- Skinny Disease? -
I just lost one of my clown loaches... had 2, he got real skinny within 2-3 days... he just stayed on the bottom... would come up and try to eat but looked like he did not get much. Someone said it might be "skinny disease" what is this... <Caused by bacteria.> how do you treat it... <Antibiotics - erythromycin in the food.> And how do you prevent it. <Keep on top of water quality issues - most often, disease susceptibility is directly related to water quality.> Had added a dwarf gourami recently but had been QT'ed for 3 weeks... and looked fine. Please help... don't want to loose anymore clowns. <Please tell more about your husbandry - water change regimen, what you feed, water parameters, etc.>
Thanks in advance, Monica
<Cheers, J -- >

Skunk loaches (10/10/03)
<Hi! Ananda here tonight...>
I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank, established.  I have to dwarf gouramis, two zebra Danios, one common Plec, one red tail black shark (just added) and (now) one 1" skunk loach.  
<The skunk loach, Botia morleti, gets to be 4" long; the shark, Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, gets to almost 5". Hopefully you will have larger quarters for them in the future.>
I had two skunk loaches (same size), however, the shark had an ick spot. I treated the tank with 1/2 strength Quik Cure. About 12 hours after the initial treatment, one of my skunk loaches was hanging on top of my heater (I have a submersible). He looked injured on one side right in the gill area, from about his eye back across the gill. I want to know if this is a result of the treatment or did the shark injure him.
<My bets are on the shark -- or perhaps the other skunk loach! This is one of the more aggressive loaches, and with only 10 gallons, that's not a lot of room for them to stake out their territories. Half-strength Quick Cure *should* be okay for loaches, and would not have caused a visible exterior injury.>
The other loach is fine. I put him in a brood net in the tank as I don't have a hospital tank. But, he died within 12 hours.
<Presumably, you mean the injured loach was in the brood net...without a photo of the injury, it's difficult for me to say what caused it.>
I will be upgrading to a bigger tank, 30 gal, in about a week.  I also have a 30 gal already established and fully stocked.  I would appreciate any advice for these loaches.  
Thanks, Donna
<Well, they definitely need the space of the 30g tank. Depending on what fish you have in the other 30g, you might consider moving the loach or the shark. Unlike many loaches, which prefer to be in groups, as an adult this loach prefers to be by itself. More on these guys here: http://loaches.com/species_pages/botia_morleti.html ... By the way...you do plan on keeping the 10 gallon for a hospital tank, right? :-)  --Ananda>

Treating clown loaches for Ich (10/14/03)
<Hi! Ananda the clown loach nut here tonight...>
After a 35% water change, my 5 clown loaches developed ick.  
<Uh-oh.>
No fish had been added to my tank in months so I'm pretty sure it was caused by the water change. I use Reverse Osmosis water and there is no control of temperature.  
<Yep, that'll do it. You need to get a container big enough to hold all your water-change water and get a heater for it.>
I introduce it a gallon every  30 to 45 min.s or so so the tank has a chance to heat keep up.  
<The initial temperature shock is enough to trigger the ich.>
ANYWAY, after the loaches developed ick, I tried Ick Away for several days (with charcoal filters removed and temperature up to 82) which did nothing to help.
<Argh. I have yet to hear anything good about "Ick Away".>
I then went to CopperSafe before leaving for the weekend.  
<Never use copper with loaches! They're just too susceptible to it.>
When I returned, 3 of the 5 were dead and the other 2 were covered in Ick.  Within a couple hours, they died too.  
<Sorry to hear that... hopefully you've done another water change to take care of the probable ammonia and nitrate spike?>
None of my other fish have ick.  
<Clown loaches are ich magnets, so I'm not surprised to hear they got it bad but nothing else did...>
My tank is a 30 gallon with an Emperor 400.  
<That's what I use on my 30 gallon tank. But...with copper added to the tank, the bio-wheels have been sterilized and are going to be ineffective until the tank re-cycles. You're going to have to do more frequent water changes for a while. Your other option is to get some Bio-Spira, which must be refrigerated until you use it, as it contains live nitrifying bacteria.>
Fish are 3 Rummy Nose Tetras, 2 Corys, 2 Rosey Reds, 3 Red Platy's, 3 Black Molly's, and  3 Otocinclus.
<You're almost at the maximum fish capacity this tank can hold. With the loaches, I would characterize that tank as overcrowded. I keep my loaches in a 55 gallon tank -- they're still fairly small, about 3" long -- with the knowledge that they're going to need at least a 90 gallon tank in a couple of years.>  
What is the BEST way to cure Clown Loaches of ICK.  
<Many people use their ich medication of choice at half-strength, for twice as long as is generally recommended. That, and they crank the tank temp up. Personally, I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to my clown loaches. I've used "FW Ecolibrium" when they had ich -- it's more expensive than most ich meds, but it's completely safe for scaleless fish. I have a couple of bottles around, though I've been able to avoid ich since the first time they got it by carefully matching new water to tank water for water changes and by quarantining any new fish that get added to their tank. I got the Ecolibrium through Drs. Foster & Smith (they're a WetWebMedia sponsor, so you can get to their web site from the banner at the top of the Daily FAQ page).>
And while I'm at it, what's the best way to cure most fish of ICK?  
<Increased temperature: 86 degrees or higher for 10 days. And salt -- "freshwater" salt, not marine salt, since you don't want to change the pH. Your mollies and platies won't mind salt at all (mollies actually prefer some salt in the water). The rest of your fish should be able to tolerate a bit of it for a while. The level you need is 2 ppt salinity, which generally works out to a specific gravity of 1.002-1.003. Get the Aquarium Systems SeaTest hydrometer to check the specific gravity (it's the only one that measures low levels, except for the glass thermometer/hydrometers -- which are pretty easy to break). You'll need to find a temp. vs. s.g. chart to convert the actual s.g., since the SeaTest is calibrated for 76 degrees and your tank will probably have a higher temperature than that.>
I've been searching the web high and low and I've seen nothing definite on the cure for ICK that seems to work.
<One person's experiences with ich and her clown loaches: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=11808 >
Thanks for a great website.
<You're welcome -- check out our forums, too!>
-Mike
P.s.  GO CUBS!!!!!
<Ah, they lost tonight. :-( Maybe tomorrow night... --Ananda>

Re: Ich on clown loaches (10/16/03)
Ananda, thanks for the great info.  
<You're welcome!>
I'll check out Drs. Foster & Smith for proper medication (by the way, their catalog is almost a quick guide to proper fish and tank care.  It's indispensable.)  
<I use it a lot, too, but more for finding out which things are supposed to do what! But do compare their information to others' -- you may find that a phrase can be misinterpreted, or someone else's version may make more sense, etc.>
My LFS told me that CopperSafe was the *BEST* way to cure ick for Loaches.  
<Ack! Sounds like someone was seriously mis-informed....>
I prefer the method of Sea Salt and raised temperatures to any medication.  Not because of the cost, but because I hate adding any chemicals.  Is there a salt level/temp setting I can use all the time that would be preventative against ick?  
<Hmmm. Any increased temperature for long periods is going to speed the metabolism of the fish as well as any parasites -- and speeding the fishes' metabolism will shorten their lifespan.>
Just curious.  Or after the 10 days at 86 degrees should I just bring it back down to 78?
<That would be my recommendation.>
Thanks again for the help and a big thank you to the team for such an informative website.  
-Mike
<Thanks for the kind words. --Ananda>
P.s.  Go CUBS - Game 7!  :)
<*grumble* There were no fireworks in Chi-town last night....>

Dead clown loach - 'skinny disease', or worms?
me again....
<Sabrina, here>
answers to your questions....I do a 20%-30% water change once a month...ph 6.6, no ammonia, no nitrites,
<Excellent.>
I feed them a variety of things...zooplankton, Tubifex worms,
<Tubifex - live, frozen, or freeze-dried?  Live Tubifex are pretty well known for their tendency to transmit disease; probably not the best option....>
shrimp pellets, tropical flake food, gammarus...frozen shrimp....a good mix of things I thought.
<Yes.>
Like I said in my previous email...everyone seems to think it was skinny disease....a parasite that they say can be in the loach already and 6 months to a year or more kill them....
<I've found some conflicting information on this - some sources say 'skinny disease' is a bacteria, as Jason said previously, and some say it's a Microsporidean - a protozoan parasite - and is difficult to treat.  However....  As I read this, I'm rather certain that, whichever way it is, you're not looking at this 'skinny disease', but at an internal large-type parasite (rather than a protozoa or a bacteria), like nematodes.  This is common in wild fish.>
because they come from the wild....I had read that you can treat  prophylactically with Levamisole hydrochloride to keep this from happening...but did not find out where to get it or how much..... is this true?
<I would agree with this advice - Levamisole or Piperazine are the route to take for internal wormies.  Look into "Discomed" or, if you can find it, "Dewormer", both by Aquatronics.  The former is administered via food, and contains Levamisole.  The former is already *in* food, and contains Piperazine.  Either route should do the trick.>
You had mentioned medicated pellets with erythromycin....I have medicated pellets but it is tetracycline...for bacteria...would that be sufficient if this happens again?
<I'm rather convinced that you're dealing with a parasite, not a bacteria.  I'd suggest, if you're considering getting in more wild-caught fish, first and foremost set up a quarantine tank so you can nail illnesses before they get into the main system.  Secondly, keep good antibacterial meds on hand, as well as anthelminthic (worm killin') meds on hand.  Medicated food is probably the best route.>
In regards to that, I read that loaches with skinny disease do not always eat and by feeding with the pellets it might do more harm than good by damaging bacteria in filter and gravel... throwing ammonia and nitrites up therefore hurting other fish........
<Unlikely.  If the loaches don't eat the food, the other fish will, most likely.  I don't see much likelihood at all of causing harm to the tank going this route.>
Sorry so many questions...
<Don't apologies - it's totally understandable.>
I always find conflicting info on the net....& never know what to believe....
<Conflicting info - yes, indeed.  And there are many ways to skin a cat - and everyone you talk to will give you a different way.  -Sabrina>
any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance,  Monica     

Skinny-wormy-loach follow-up
I feed freeze dried Tubifex.
<Great.>
Thanks for all of the info.
<You betcha.  -Sabrina>
Monica

Clown loaches 'n' columnaris
Hi - I purchased 3 clown loaches about 3 or 4 weeks ago. They've seemed fine until about 3 days ago.  1 of them has white around his mouth. Could it be cotton mouth?  How would I treat this?  
<This sounds like columnaris (mouth fungus, mouth rot, other names).  I would treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic like Oxytetracycline, preferably in a medicated food, if possible.>
I had something similar about a year ago that started with a Dojo and 14 of my 19 fish perished.  I treated it with Penicillin upon advice from a local fish store.  I have a 29 gal tank. Testing yesterday showed everything was fine.
<What were your test results?  Usually this bacterial illness is brought on by high nitrates, perhaps a pH other than what the fish prefer, low oxygen concentrations, etc.>
Thanks
SG
<Wishing your fish a swift recovery,  -Sabrina>

Sick Kuhli Loaches 
Thank you for considering my question. I actually have two which are related. 
1) My local pet store used to be able to get healthy Kuhli Loaches all the time. In recent years (no matter the source) they arrive sick and the whole lot of them die. The symptoms are reddish gill area, then swirling, then they die. Any recommendations. We would love to be able to get some "new stock" in our area. 
2) This is my main question, the first is background for what knowledge I do have. This morning I discovered one of my Kuhli Loaches is pinkish around the gill area. I have had my Kuhlis for quite a long time and have not introduced any new fish for - 6 weeks. What is my best bet for treatment? I don't want him to follow the same fate as those at our pet store. 
<<Hello. Kuhli loaches are a problem lately in most stores. The stock is just not healthy anymore, and they seem particularly prone to bacterial infections and gill flukes. Stores can treat them with antibiotics, and if lucky, some may survive. Strong antibiotics will kill your nitrifying bacteria, though, so be careful! For you, I would recommend Melafix and salt (a teaspoon per gallon). Or you can try to find yourself some Maracyn Two, which is a safer antibiotic to use since it's relatively gentle, and not as much of a threat to your nitrifying bacteria when used as directed. 
To prevent further Kuhli problems in your tank, maintain good water quality and do regular gravel cleaning. This will help keep the nasty bacteria levels in your substrate under control, which promote infections, and prevent anoxic areas from developing underneath your decorations and rocks. It's hard to vacuum using a regular siphon, since cutting your Kuhlis in half with the tube is always a possibility, so what I recommend is that move the decorations around, and you "sift" the gravel with your hands regularly to release the debris, and let your filter remove it. Make sure you have good water circulation, so the suspended debris is removed by your filter. If need be, you can add a powerhead to your tank for circulating the dirty water during this cleaning process. Then clean your filter floss and do a water change about an hour later. 
Also, if you happen to see the solid black Kuhli loaches for sale, buy them instead. They are (thus far) much hardier, easier to keep, and just as entertaining. -Gwen>>

YoYo Loach Question
Hi there, I have a yo yo loach that I've had for about 6 months and he/she seems to be getting extremely thin and very sluggish.  It still eats and swims around, but more often now I see it hiding with my Kuhli loaches.  Any idea what illness my poor loach might have? Thanks, Jackie
<<Dear Jackie; First you need to test your water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The first two should be zero, and the nitrate level should be kept between 20-60ppm. Higher readings will require multiple back-to-back water changes to lower it. Once you have determined the state of your water, you can add medication. Meds are not going to be too effective if the reason the fish got sick was due to water quality, which, left unremedied, will simply hinder the cure. At any rate, the most logical culprit is an internal parasite. Your LFS should carry a medication with Metronidazole as an ingredient, ask them for it. Follow the instructions to the letter, and hopefully things will improve. And keep testing your water :) -Gwen>>

Sick Botia angelicus
Hi Bob - <Hi Sherri, MacL here with you this morning>
I purchased 2 Botia Angelicus from my LFS on 8/7/04.  I put them in my 40 gal tank that also has a few clown loaches, a dojo, a yoyo, swordtail and a couple of angelfish.  One of the Botia's has done just great.  The other, however, seems to be wasting away.  He doesn't seem to be interested in food, he just sort of swims around during feeding time and ignores it.  I moved him to a 2 gal hosp tank about 3 days ago, but am not sure what to do with him.  He has no outward signs of any diseases, but I'm afraid he'll die soon if he doesn't eat. I can now see the outline of his bones.  Any suggestions? <Is he being out competed for food with the clown loaches?  Are you feeding him some type of pellet that drops to the ground. The problem with medicating him is that we aren't seeing anything in particular to medicate. We don't know if he's got parasites or if he has some type of bacterial infection going on. My best guess might be to try Melafix in your hospital tank and see if that help. Good luck Sherri and keep me posted. Look for signs of anything on him. MacL >
Thx,
Sherri

Re: Sick Botia angelicus
I don't believe it was a food competition. I feed plenty of bottom dweller type pellets and the tank is big enough that there is always an empty corner at feeding time.  I do have some Pimafix...would that suffice?  Or should I buy the Melafix?  I'm not sure what the difference is offhand. Even in isolation, he doesn't appear to be interested in food.  I've even got a piece of zucchini in there and he really hasn't touched it.
< Go to loaches.com and make sure that we are talking about the same fish. There are some slight differences in maintenance for each species so a good identification is a good place to start. Your fish may have collected in the wild. Either way I would offer some live Tubifex( California black worms)  as an enticement to eat. If he doesn't eat then we have to assume that there are internal problems. Metronidazole will kill internal anaerobic bacteria so I would start there first. There are foods that will take care of internal worms but they must first be consumed by the fish to be effective. Treat with the Metronidazole then after your fish has regained his strength treat with Pepso medicated food.-Chuck>
I really appreciate your assistance!
Sherri

HLLE on Clown Loach
Greetings, all. I have a 180 gal FW tank. <!> I keep it at about 80F. I have two 13 year old clown loaches <!!>(8+ inches) and two smaller ones (3-4 inches). I also have 9 ghost catfish, 1 black skirt tetra, three hatchetfish and two large-ish Plecos. <!!!> I wrote awhile back about one of the smaller loaches having nibbled fins. Now, I notice that one of the larger clowns (the largest, in fact) has three, almost regularly-spaced craters or lesions (bites?) on his dorsum, just behind the "head". They do not look infected, and he still eats voraciously. The tank is very clean, with bio-ball sump-based filtration and a 40W UV light. 40 gallon water changes weekly.  Could this be hole in head? No white/slimy fecal matter and he acts healthy. The marks are in a row, all inside one of his dark stripes. <It does not sound like the few fish I have seen with hole in the head (HLLE) but it sure is possible. The fact that the holes are "clean" and in a row makes me think it is not HLLE. Although not directly fatal, it can lead to secondary infections that are. Watch for redness or a white pus. I found a good link for you to read up on. See:  http://www.masla.com/fish/hlle.html.
BTW Great job on keeping your fish! 180 gallons and a rather light bio load! Big fish in there though. Make sure you check the nitrates and try to keep them below 20ppm. Don>
Thanks! <No, Thank YOU!>
Tom <Don>

Lumpy weather loach
Hi, Wonder if you can help, no one else seems to be able. I have a weather loach who is about 3  yrs old. he developed a lump near his rear end months  
ago which split the skin, the lump seemed to go down after treating him for bacteria (as the skin had come inflamed). Since then the lump seems to go bigger  
then shrink. Over the last weeks he has developed lots of lumps and has started  to raise his rear as though it is full of air. I know this might be daft
but I  had an Oranda that did similar and she had constipation, could it be this. I  have tried peas and spinach with the loach just in case, but he doesn't
like it  much. Is it safe to use Epsom salts on weather loaches as I am a bit worried  about medicating as they are quite sensitive because they lack
scales. He (I  think actually he may be a she) is swimming and eating as though nothing is  wrong and shows no illness besides a very swollen stomach/anal area
and lots of  stretch marks. Any help would be much appreciated. The loach is in a 180litre  cold water tank with several goldfish comets Orandas and best
friend another  larger weather loach. water testing showed tank as it should be and no other  sign of disease in fish.
< Sounds like an internal bacterial infection caused by stress and the wrong kind of food. Isolate the fish and treat with Metronidazole as per the directions on the package.-Chuck>
Thanks in anticipation of any help.
Kind Regards
Tricia

Sleeping Loaches
Hi there, and thank you in advance for sharing your time.  I'm sure you are very busy, and there are others that will need your help more desperately than me at the moment, but if you get time to answer my questions, it would be greatly appreciated. I have searched your website, and have found tons of information, but I'm still a bit in the fog about this. I recently purchased three Botia kubotai loaches, and I have to admit they are the most beautiful, and most fun to watch fish that I own. And I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible on this. I have read and heard of this "skinny disease", and was wondering what exactly should I be looking for? What are the early signs of this disease, and do you, or someone else have pictures of it so I would know exactly what to look for?
<The loss of energy and the fish stops feeding. Hence they get skinny>
All three of my Kubotai's are very active, and seem to be eating well. One usually stays off to himself, and has a very defined, dark pattern of markings.  The other two will hang out with each other, swimming, playing, and fighting, but both seem to have somewhat of a lighter tint to their markings. Also, when one of them, (can't tell if it's just one or more), is trying to lay down, it will kind of flip over, right side up. Could this be glancing, or is it just not able to get comfortable?  Could this be the beginning of the skinny disease? Or am I just another proud, but paranoid owner?
Thank you for your time,
Richard
<A loach sleeping on it side is a sure sign it will die, within about 20 years! Sorry, but yes, you are a bit paranoid. But that's a good thing when concerning our pets, IMO. It is very common for loaches to sleep this way. Sometimes in a big pile. Scary to see, but normal. As long as they are all active and eating, relax and enjoy them. Great fish! Don>  

Lumpy Loach – Mycobacterium Infection? – 01/11/2005
Hi,
<Hello!>
I have a 75-gallon tank with three 14 year-old clown loaches and two large green kissing fish.  
<Must be some pretty large loaches, at that age!  It wouldn’t be a terrible idea to try for a larger tank, if possible.>
One of the loaches has large lumps all over his body under the skin, appears to be very swollen – even his eyes appear to be bulging.  He is hiding in the back of the tank and will not come out to eat; he just stays in the same place breathing very rapidly, in an upright position, leaning on tubing.  He has been like this for about a month and I
really didn’t expect him to be alive this long since I just noticed his illness right before I went out of town.  I assumed that he had an age related problem since a couple of his tank mates have passed on over the past couple of years.  I haven’t been able to find out anything about this particular illness.  
<To be quite honest, this sounds to me like a very good indication of mycobacteriosis.  The swelling, pop-eye, and lumps/tumors/granulomas are very strong symptoms of this myxosporidian bacterial infection.  It’s really quite a good thing that the critter did not die while you were gone – a dead fish can release literally millions of “spores” that can infect other fish in the tank!>
The nitrates in this tank stay fairly high even with frequent water changes and Poly-filters in the filters.  
<Yes....  These are very large fish in a (comparatively) small tank; increased water volume would really be a good idea.>
There are no indications (redness, etc) on his outward appearance that would suggest a bacterial or fungal condition.  I would try to treat him in a separate tank if I knew what to try, or at this point would it be better to euthanize him?  
<Sadly, mycobacteriosis is essentially incurable.  There is some indication that Kanamycin sulfate may have some effect, but recovery is unlikely, I’m so sorry to say.  Either way, should you choose to medicate or not, definitely remove the fish as soon as possible from the healthy animals – I can assure you, you do not want this to spread, if that is, in fact, what it is.  Also, PLEASE read the following link, so you can understand what risk this illness might pose to you:  http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-07/sp/feature/index.htm .  Do please understand that without seeing the fish for myself, I cannot guarantee that this is an accurate diagnosis – but based on the symptoms you describe, it is my best guess.  Gah, I hate being the bearer of bad news.>
I appreciate your consideration. Thank you, Karen Chaney
<Wishing you and your loach the best,  -Sabrina>

Clown loach FAQ, actually petfish hypochondria
Hi,
I have a 75 gallon tank with 5 clown loaches (approx. 5 inches long), 2 catfishes, and 2 discus.  After cleaning the filter in my Fluval 304, I noticed
1 of my clownloaches developed partial eye cloudiness in one eye and another clown loach developed what started looking like a small 1mm x 5mm whitish
bump turned into a round pimple-like bump.
<Good observations>
They have a great appetite.   What can I use to treat them?
<Mmm, I prescribe nothing... just time going by... the markings are/were due to abrupt chemical changes in your system... not a pathogen... and besides, even mild medications will harm your other fishes>
Do they need to be separated in a "sick" tank?
<No>
You have mentioned for other internal bacteria diseases or infections to use Flagyl, but how much ?
<None>
Let say I have Flagyl 500 mg tablet form.  
<... this material, Metronidazole is quite toxic... kills the kidneys of fishes easily... Do NOT use it in this instance>
Would I go by the approximate weight of the fish ?  What is the weight of a 6 inch 15 year old clown loach ?  Can I crush up the Flagyl tablet and dilute
it with tank water then soak it in Tubifex worms ?  Will it further harm the rest of the healthy fish or will the antibiotic make the other fishes
bigger and healthier ?  I've heard of using Methylene blue approximately 6 drops per gallon on the entire tank.  What is your feelings on this and
where would I buy Methylene blue ?  15 years ago, when I bought the tiny little babies, one of them would not eat and was wasting away.  At that time
I didn't have my heart and soul invested in them because I just bought them.   So I figured I would experiment.  I had left over amoxicillin (from my
sick cat).  If memories serves me correctly, I crushed up a tablet, separated it to approximately 1 mg, dilute it with water, soaked it with
Tubifex (the worms died instantly), then fed it to the sick fish, which was in a breeder tank inside the 75 gallon tank.  So the sick wasting fish would
accidentally have to suck and antibiotic soaked worm.  A week later, he was swimming with the rest of the fishes.  The rest of the other fishes ate
whatever antibiotic soaked worms floated out of the breeder tank.  And they all lived !! 15 years later they are XXL and were healthy until now.  But
now I don't want to experiment.  Please advise.  Thank you for your time.  
Tammy
<Tam... don't fall prey to the "pill" mentality... these are not "safe" to just add... and there is no need to generally add any of them to otherwise well-maintained systems. I would add nothing here. Bob Fenner>

Clown Loaches with white spots laying on the bottom of the tank
I have a new 90L tank (just over a month old). I have slowly introduced 8 Neon Tetras, 1 Siamese Fighting Fish, 2 Plecostomus, 2 Clown Loaches and a growing snail infestation.
<Suspect these last two are related>
I am a complete beginner here as this is my first ever tank, I have read some books and many web pages but none seem to answer specifically my question. Please let me explain a little first before asking yourselves. After introducing the Clowns they seemed to hide behind plants and rocks for the most part of the day, I hardly ever saw them.
<This is normal behavior... they're new.>
This did not worry me as they appeared to be doing their job (the snail population dropped dramatically). The Fighting Fish never seemed to display his colours as he did in the shop, this was solved by adding a mirror to the side of the tank. One day after adding the mirror I noticed a little white spot on one of the loaches on the rare occasions I saw them, by the evening it was covered and the other fish started developing it. By the second day I had added Interpret White Spot Plus No6. Over the next few days the spots diminished on all the fish except the loaches, after the second dose the other fish seemed clear and the loaches if not clear at least diminished. The loaches however are no longer hiding in the back of the tank where I can't see them, they are laying one on top of the other huddled up next to they mirror and barely moving. Every now and then they will dart into the middle of the tank for a few minutes then return and lay still for ages. My question is are they still suffering from the White Spot, are they suffering from something else or is this normal behavior?
<Likely just the white spot/ich>
Please excuse any ignorance here but I really am beginning to worry about them as it says on many pages white spot can be lethal, while on just as many it says it can be easily cured.
Tony Robertson
<Ignorance is acceptable... we're here to diminish this... Your fish, indeed your tank "has ich"... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm  Re: the medication, did you remove all chemical filtration (e.g. carbon) from your filters? This will remove the med. Did you raise the tank temperature? I would... all the livestock you list can easily tolerate the mid 80's F... but not the ich. Know that the loaches are "ich magnets" (i.e. very susceptible to this parasite), AND sensitive to ich medications... you will want to check the label, what you can re the med... and likely use half doses... Don't add any more livestock for a few weeks till after this problem is solved. Bob Fenner> 

Re: Clown Loaches with white spots laying on the bottom of the tank.
Dear Mr. Fenner
<Tony>
May I say thank you very much for you advice, it has helped to belay my fears quite a bit.
<Glad we have helped you>
You asked if I had removed the carbon filters, I had as that was an instruction with the white spot medication although I must admit I was unsure as to why I had to do it but my guess matched your reason. You also suggested raising the temperature, this I had not done as the instruction suggested raising it to 26c while I have had my tank at a constant 27c since the second day after installation. 
<I might raise it as much as 29C... the rationale: the causative organism (Ichthyophthirius multifilius) cannot tolerate heat as well as its fish hosts>
It is now two days since I first wrote and things have improved a great deal with the Clown Loaches. All signs of ich appear to have left all the fish, the loaches (the ones I was worried about the most) seem a tad paler than I recall but they do seem a bit more active. They are not laying on top of one another anymore but rather moving around on the bottom of the tank. I definitely believe they are going to live, which was not my belief a couple of days ago.
<Do understand the general life cycle of the protozoan...>
I had planned on adding a few more fish later this week but I think now I will wait a week longer.
<Yes! At least a few weeks... you may well simply be in "mid cycle">
I'm hoping to add some Angelfish, Red-tailed sharks and some small striped ones I saw in the shop last time I was there but unfortunately don't recall what they were called. I will seek advice from the shop before making any purchases as they did seem very knowledgeable last time. I had been blaming them for the ich in my tank but I now realize and understand that it is extremely common so I'll forgive them, but it won't stop me asking for a discount.  Again let me repeat my thanks as your advice and web pages were deeply appreciated.
Tony Robertson
<You are welcome. Bob Fenner> 

LOAFING LOACHES
Hi Guys, I hope you can shed some light on why my 2 clown loaches have suddenly become very listless with one in particular just lying at the back of the tank. This is a marked change in behaviour as they have been very active for the month since I introduced them to my 200 litre planted tank. Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are fine and ph is 7. I do seem to have a bit of an algae problem despite doing weekly water changes and was wondering if the level of dissolved organic compounds may be too high and affecting the loaches adversely. I've since cut the lighting back to 9 hours and am going to reduce the amount of food I've been giving them. Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards, Jane
< It is not uncommon for loaches to be found occasionally lying on their sides. Many new aquarists become freaked out by their loaches strange behavior but it is normal for them. If they really are sick then look closely for ich. These guys can pick this up in a tank when all the other fish seem unaffected.-Chuck> 

Clown Loach
I have 2 loaches, 2 black tipped sharks(?), and have just added 2 Oscars. I only mention all of the above because I do not remember seeing this problem before the Oscars were added. One of my loaches is constantly swimming at the surface with his mouth wide open, never closing it. He is seriously faded and seems to have red cheeks (I know that is silly but really what it looks like). The sharks are very worried about him and so am I. Can you help me?
Kim
<Sounds like this fish is extremely stressed... by? I would check your water quality... for ammonia and nitrite at least... Has this tank been set-up long? Is it big enough for these fishes? How is it filtered? Is it cycled? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm - scroll down to Environmental Disease and read the Related FAQs files. Bob Fenner>

Dying Weather Loaches
Hi, I have a 29 gallon tank and I had a dojo that got sick lost almost all of his tail fin and started to loose scales on the back half of his tail. We thought one of my other fish was eating him so we moved him out of that tank and put him in a 10 gallon. Well the next day we came in and he was dying. He had blood in his front fins and in his whiskers. Not know what was wrong my husband reached it to see if he was already gone, and he gave one final frantic swim and then sank to the bottom of the tank on his back and died.
Very upset because JOJO was my favorite fish out of all that I have. I jumped up and went back to the pets store and got 4 more. Now I have 3 left from that 4 and 2 of the 3 look like they have fin rot. Well my husband and I got to looking really close to our tank and found these little worms swimming every where. But they would only come out when the rocks in our tank had been stirred up. We have no clue where they came from, what they are or how to get rid of them. I have read several different articles on your website and I am just not sure which one is right. 
Please Help. We have had this tank for about 2 months but all of my fish are at least a 1 year old. (except for the 3 new ones). I don't want to loose any more of my fish. We have moved all of the fish to a 10 gallon and they are quite cramped. I am not sure if the parasite moved with them or not. 
We have treated the water with parasite clear and fungus clear. We did that for 2 days and it looks really clear now. So we stirred up the rocks and hear came the worms. What can we do? Thank you for your help. Shannon
< To get rid of the worms (which are probably plant leaches) use Fluke-Tabs. To get rid of the tail rot ,which is actually a bacterial infection, you need to do a few things. First change 30% of the water, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. If your sand is coarse and abrasive then you may need to change it for a smoother less abrasive material. The rough sand erodes the skin of the fish and then it gets infected. Once the water and the tank are clean you need to treat the tank with Nitrofuranace. This medication may affect the good bacteria that breaks down the fish waste so after treating you may need to add BioSpira from Marineland to get the good bacteria going again.-Chuck> 

Swollen gold dojo
I have 2 gold dojo loaches and have a concern about one of them. I have noticed that although they both continue to be active and have no problems eating, one seems to have become thicker than the other and somewhat swollen. Its tail also seems to constantly float upward, 
<Not good>
it will usually tuck its tail under a plant when resting. I have seen my dojo eliminate waste so I don't think it's constipated. Have any ideas what's going on?
Thank you for your time.
-Shell
<I do hope this is something simple... like an "egg blockage" that will cure itself. If your other livestock can tolerate such, I'd add a level teaspoon of Epsom Salt per ten gallons of actual system water here. Bob Fenner> 

Re: Swollen Golden Dojo a Go
Hi,
<Hello>
I just wanted to say thank you for your advice. I did add the Epsom salt, also gave them some peas. Both Dojo's are doing very well, no more floating tails.
Aloha,
Shell
<Ahh, thank you for this update of your success. A hui ho. Bob Fenner>  

Not so Golden Dojos
Hi,
<Hello>
A week ago, I had 3 golden dojo loaches.  Today, I have 1 left.  I believe they have fin rot as their dorsal fins have progressively
disintegrated over the course of the week and then it appears to spread in a lighter colored saddle shape across the back, with swelling and
then death.  The first one died, then the second one started with the fin disintegration and when it died, my third one started.
<Unusual... and frightening... This sport, species is usually very tough>
I am new to aquaria and am not sure how to proceed...do I increase tank temp (currently 80deg), add salt (how much, it's a 150 gallon tank),
and/or medicate (with what).
<Am (as usual) first curious as to your water quality... and the history of your having these fish...>
This is a young community tank, with 6 cichlids, clown loaches, shovelnose cats, peacock eel, clown knife.  Everyone else seems fine and everyone gets along.
<Thus far... don't see the species of cichlid posted, but the Clown Knife will get large enough to eat all if the cars are Sorubim lima...>
  I have tested pH (7.4-7.8), ammonia (0), nitrite (0), nitrate (40ppm).
<The last a bit high... by about twice.>
I have done 2 partial water changes of 25% since the onset of the disease, with gravel vacuuming.  My nitrates have not
lowered and they are not naturally occurring in the tap water.
<Beyond EPA limit for source waters>
Any assistance is greatly appreciated, as I really like the Dojos and want to figure out what the management problem is so that I can keep them alive.
Thanks,
Tara
<Mmm, well... from the information you've well-provided, it is not easy to see that the Misgurnis loaches likely had some sort of infectious (though possibly internal parasitic) disease... And they are inappropriate with the Knife and Cats... If you have another tank (with smaller tankmates), you might try some Gold Dojos there... I'd check with your dealer to make sure they had no problem with this "batch", and hold off on others until they've had them on hand for a week or two. Bob Fenner>

Yoyo loaches ok or not?
Hi!
<Hello there>
I stumbled on your website while looking for clues as to why my yoyos are acting the way they are. I bought them about 2 weeks and a half (I got 3), they have always been active, rummaging around, swimming about and everything has been going great. We've even heard them click.
<Neat>
Today, I'm a little worried, ok a lot worried. They don't look so hot. 2 of them are faded. They all have enlarged stomachs although one especially. It seemed like it happened overnight. I fed them last night and I didn't notice anything strange. I've been feeding my other fish flakes and I have been dropping shrimp pellets and algae wafers depending on the day but I don't think they are eating any of that. I do have snails though.
One of them is just laying on the rock, sometimes on his side, sometimes normally and I'll watch him and he'll be on his side and then all of a sudden, he'll just roll over and be "normal" again.
<Not uncommon loach behavior>
One doesn't look discolored much although he does seem a little plump. He is swimming around doing his thing and the other 2 are just laying there.
The 2 that are just laying there also seem to be opening their mouths more than the others.
<"When in doubt, do a water change"... Something may be amiss with dissolved oxygen...>
I have a 55 gallon community (with angels, tetras, 1 Farlowella) that has been running for about 3 months. My tetras have even spawned twice. The water is fine, ammonia +nitrate levels are good. I'm not sure what's going on but I am freaking out. I read your Q&A and I really don't know about them sleeping? I mean, could that be all there is to it? I sure hope so :(
Thank you for reading this and I hope you can help me,
Marie
<Do keep your eye on them, change ten, twenty percent of the water... Bob Fenner>

Re: yoyo loaches ok or not?
I appreciate your reply and I did a 20-30% water change, I do a water change every 7-10 days and check my levels. Still all fine. I do have a bubble wall going so I'm not sure that there is a problem with the oxygen level.
<Likely not here>
How often to they sleep? For how long?
<Sort of like dogs, cats... at different times, night, day... minutes to hours>
I love my loaches and I would hate for something to be wrong with them. And again, I really appreciate you emailing me and answering my newbie loach questions :)
Marie
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Dojo Loach resuscitation/Heimlich on a fish?? 7/12/05
Hi all at WWM,
<Howdy Ter>
The strangest thing happened to me yesterday with my Gold Dojo loach, and I just wanted to share it with you guys, and see if you had come across
anything like it before! He is my absolute favorite fish, such a character, so yesterday was a total fiasco.
<Oh?>
I was feeding my small tank (consisting of a female Betta, 2 silvertip tetras, and a Gold Dojo loach, and an Oto) as normal yesterday, when I
noticed my Gold Dojo was going after a large broken off chunk of Sinking wafer. He usually nibbles on these things, but today he seems to try to
swallow the whole thing.
<I get the same way around pizzas>
Anyways, as soon as the too big-piece-of-food fit into his mouth, it seemed like trouble. He was chomping wildly at first, and then I noticed his body
started convulsing a bit, like I'd never seen him before. I thought he might be choking, but then he swam away fine, like nothing happened.
All of a sudden, 2 minutes later, he started darting madly across and up and down the tank, faster and crazier than I had ever seen. He was spiraling
out of control, never stopping, unless he hit a rock or the substrate, and then he would land on his back, belly up. He did this a few times, and then
went still, belly up on the bottom of the tank, rapidly losing his color. Now I've heard that they go nuts before the weather changes, but this didn't
seem like the case, he was doing the same thing as my guppy when he died. So, by now my girlfriend and I are in panic, we reach in to the tank and
pull him out by hand, and place him in a cut off Arrowhead jug that I had just filled with tap water and I threw some Bio-Coat in a hurry in hopes of
conditioning it. By now he is pretty much unresponsive, limp, but occasionally twitching in my hand. I start doing everything I learned in CPR
class, but for a fish!: rubbing his belly back and forth, trying to open up his gills, pinching his throat lightly in hopes I can maybe expel the food.
I even tried blowing in to his mouth getting it to open up!!! All this time, he is getting more and more limp, taking maybe one or two breaths.
This goes on for maybe about 5 minutes (in my panic I really don't know though) when I had basically given up hope and thought he was dead. He was
laying belly up in my hand, totally limp. Then, my girlfriend yells at me to try putting him in the water, so not knowing a better alternative, I put my
hand in the jug, and suddenly, I noticed he turned on his side, and he starts breathing!!! Totally to our surprise and unconfirmed relief, he
gradually gets upright by himself and keeps on breathing in our quarantine jug.
<Yay!>
So we keep watch over him for the next hour, and he just lays there still, continually breathing, just resting on the bottom. Little bubbles even
occasionally pop out of his gills. We are so ecstatic by now that we cut the bottom out of another jug, poke holes in it and stick it in our main tank as
a temporary makeshift sanctuary for him. By the time we put him back in the tank, he has started squirming a bit more. Now, its the next morning, and I
see him making his way around the sanctuary jug, swimming up to the surface, and hobbling around.
Anyways, I know this is probably just the beginning of the battle, because he must have endured an amazing amount of stress from the whole ordeal and
possibly some internal damage from me rubbing his stomach and gills. He seems to be getting more and more energetic, but I put a dose of Melafix
into the tank after this happened to stave off any strange infections, and I also had a dose of Bio-Coat and Amquel+ that I put in the day before doing a
regular 25% water change. Is there anything else I can do for him during this time??
<Mmm, nothing more I would do>
Would aquarium salt be a good addition to help the healing process???
<Actually no... the Tetras and Oto don't "like it">
(and would this be ok for a tank with Tetras, a female Betta, live plants, an Oto, and a couple ghost shrimp??)  
This is definitely one of the weirdest things to happen to my fish, so I just wanted to share this experience with you guys and see if you had come
across anything like it before! Also if you had any advice as to what else I can do for him, and when I can put him back along with his fellow tankmates.
Ill definitely keep a close eye on him for the next couple days.
Take care,
Terry
<I'd return the fish to the main tank... likely better water quality there. Bob Fenner>

Clown Loaches - Diseased, or Clownin' Around? - 08/12/2005
We have had 2 clown loaches in a 240 litre community tank for 8 months. They are in with two small eels (7inch) two angel two gourami and some pleco's.
<Some....  How many?>
Only two small Plecos have been introduced recently.  
<Not much space for several territorial bottom-dwellers....>
Over the last 24 - 48 hours one clown loach has stayed at the bottom often falling over on his side,
<Can be quite normal....  Try a google search with "clown loach playing dead".>
and his colouring have gone very dark (like bruising but all over)?  
<Possibly a problem....>
The other clown loach is desperately trying to help him but I don't what it is or how to treat him?
<First, test your water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.  Be certain ammonia and nitrite are always ZERO.  Maintain nitrate at 20ppm or less.  If your water is not within this range, do water changes to correct it.  If all checks out, and you see no other behaviour issues with this fish, all may indeed be quite well.  I would "wait and see" for now, and keep a close eye on the fish.>
Please help,  -Karen
<Wishing you and your fishes well,  -Sabrina>