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Outside pond fish... possible Lernaeid 10/21/05
Hi, this is our first time on your web-site, and we have a question.
We have an outdoor fish pond with 4th generation goldfish!
Today I noticed something on one of the fish.
It is gold in color, protruding ( from under his skin)? or sticking out of his skin, I can't really tell. It looks like a thick wire sticking out.
He doesn't look or act different, eating as normal. I didn't see anything
like this on the other five fish.
Do you think this is some sort of parasite?
<Mmm, possibly... Lernaea... "Anchorworm"...>
What would you suggest we do?
<Mmm... place this/these terms on the WWM, general search engines... read... If
this is the cause/parasite, removing the adults by tweezing, inspecting all
fishes, using a organophosphate to kill intermediates is suggested. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Donna
DTHP use, marine, dips 7/7/05
Hello, Crew,
It's me, dum-dum, again.
Okay, so I was reading about DTHP for the treatment of various and sundry
parasites and other general nastiness.
Recalling what I'd read already about QT, freshwater dips, Methylene blue, and
so forth, I was wondering if anyone had ever established a protocol of a DTHP
dip as a precautionary step prior to introducing species to the main tank.
Perhaps during the last four or so days of QT?
<Some wholesale outfits have used this, other organophosphates to rid fishes of
"worms" and crustacean fauna (parasitic and otherwise) en-route... I would not,
do not encourage home-hobbyists to do this. Too much likelihood of damage,
toxicity to the livestock and themselves. Bob Fenner>
Joe Kraska
Copepod or parasite on Calico Ryukin
Great website and FAQ section, folks!
<Thank you>
I recently picked up a gorgeous calico Ryukin for my newly setup
goldfish
tank. After many years of tropical freshwater and marine setups, I'm
back
to my first love, goldfish!
<Ah, outstanding... one of my fave petfish statements is: "Most people
start with goldfish, and if they live long enough, well enough (go
through cichlids, exotics, marine...) they end up back with goldfish">
Three 3-inch goldies in a 60 gallon at the
moment. Bio-bed still being established and there's a dual mechanical
filtration setup (undergravel plus over tank).
<Some folks would encourage getting rid of the UG>
The calico looks and acts fine. No stress whatsoever. So it was with a
bit
of surprise that I noticed this 1-2 mm nearly invisible creature on it's
caudal tail. I'm surprised I missed it while examining the fishy. Mind
you, the calico is multi-colored so it was a challenge.
<Neat, and good pic>
With a tweezers, a Q-tip, bowl of aquarium water and shaky hands, I was
able
to scrape this little baddie of the tail and take a pic of it (Ahhh...the
wonders of a digital camera!). Any idea what I'm dealing with here?
(pic
attached) The calico's two other companions (a feisty black moor and a
dopey lionhead) are just fine and dandy. Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Ted
<Yes... is actually a Branchiuran, genus Argulus, a "fish louse"...
Please place these terms in your search tools... and look for a DTHP or
Dimilin based treatment (there are other, acetylcholinesterase
inhibitor/insecticides as well) to take out the less than adult
parasitic forms that are likely now in your system. Bob Fenner>
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Re: Copepod or parasite on Calico Ryukin
Thank you for the prompt reply.
<Welcome>
After much research regarding your alternatives, I will look into
getting my
hands on some Dimilin (otherwise known as Diflubenzuron, as I just
learned!)
<Yes>
as it is the only one that will not affect my bio filter. Apparently,
DTHP
(otherwise known as Dylox, D50, Dipterex, Masoten, Trichlorofon,
Foschlor or
Neguvon) does affect the bio bed; not a good thing in my eyes for entire
tank treatments.
<Mmm, DTHP is about as efficacious as Dimilin in regard to
nitrification>
A very interesting piece of tidbit I've learned from my research. Some
people swear by the use of Tin-Foil Barbs as a way to control fish
lice.
<Interesting... had not heard this before>
Yes, it is a myth to others, but some of the posts I've seen appear to
back
up this claim. Obviously, it would work in ponds for 12" Koi, but I'm
curious as to what would happen if I plopped in a small barb in my tank
with
my 3-4" goldies? Might be worth exploring.
<Mmm, their mouths are quite small...>
One more question. Your initial reply mentioned that some folks would
discourage against the use of an UG filter. Why would that be?
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/ug5proscons.htm
and the linked files (in blue, above)>
I see it as
a way to have a primary mechanical filter (in addition to the tank
mounted
one) and with a powerhead, there is aerobic activity (to foster the bio
filter) as opposed to anaerobic activity (very very bad) with no water
flow
through the gravel. We all agree goldies are messy. Detritus will end
up
in the gravel no matter what. But at least with an UG filter, aerobic
activity can take place.
<Trouble... in regards to reductive nature principally here, though
TBC's are elevated as well, with concomitant metabolite challenges.>
Thanks for your valuable advice, once again! Even a vet like me can
always
learn more. :)
Ted
<Ah, good. Bob Fenner> |
Possible anchor worms and CopperSafe
First, I'd like to tell you that your site is fantastic, the best fish site I've come across, and I've looked at a few.
I think I'm having a problem with anchor worm.
<Sometimes difficult to eradicate once established.>
I have three tanks-one 20 gallon with four (used to be six) very large ex-feeder goldfish which is always cloudy, yet the ammonia and nitrites/ates are nil and the pH is 6.5 or so. One tank is 55gallons with two big
Koi, three channel cats (two big), and seven goldfish of varying size (two of which came from the 20 g tank). The other tank is 15 gallons with three very small fancy goldfish (the ones with the big bellies and the forked tail fin) and a
Pleco which also came from the 20 g tank. Two days ago, I noticed a goldfish in the 55g had a bump on his skin with a white wormy thing sticking out.
<Does sound like a Lernaeid...>
Then I saw that a goldfish in the 20g tank had two red raised spots with white stuff on him (the scales were missing from the spots) and one with a veiltail has red near the ends of his tail fin. The
Pleco in the 15g has had his fins clamped and won't eat very much, and I think I saw some white stuff on his mouth. He doesn't come out much, it's hard to see what's going on. These tanks are all well established and have the same water chem,
i.e. no ammonia, no nitrates, and 6.5 or so pH. The water in the 55g is crystal clear, and a little bit cloudy in the 15g. They're well established, I do water changes every week, and I don't understand why they should all of a sudden all get sick. The
transferred fish have been in their new tanks for at least 2 1/2 weeks. I started using CopperSafe, and it made all these little red worms come out in the 20g tank, and white worms in the other 2.
<The copper won't "get" the intermediate stages... you'll poison the fish stock before the treatment can be completed...>
No noticed improvement in the fishes' conditions. How long does this stuff take to work? What can I expect? Do I have to treat for secondary bacterial infection?
<Good questions. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/contrpdparasit.htm
You need to seek out a source of this pesticide, follow the directions that come with it, or the ones posted here>
I apologize for the length, but I really don't want my fish to die and you really seem to know what you're doing.
Thanks in advance.
Pati
<No worries. Do contact me if this is unclear, incomplete. This is an easy problem to fix, given the active ingredient... and cautious use. Bob Fenner>
DTHP
Dear Robert,
Read your web article about DTHP. Where can I get this material
<Is sold as such, by itself and in concert with other materials for pet-fish use
in various products... mainly labeled as Masoten, Dylox... see a LFS re if
you're looking to treat small volumes. We can chat if this is for thousands,
much more volume.>
and
have you heard of it being used against Gyrodactylus?
<Yes... you can see this through a literature search... the most recent work of
Ed Noga, Nelson Herwig... Bob Fenner>
Steve
What's in Fluke Tabs?
Hi Chuck! I bought the Fluke tabs. Do you know what are the active ingredients? It's not written on the
product. Thanks! Dominique
<The active ingredients are Mebendazole and Trichlorfon.-Chuck>
Can't Get the Right Medication
Hi Chuck, I really appreciate your replies on this. I get what you're saying about how nasty these things are to get rid of.
I'm in the UK so Fluke tabs and 'Clout' aren't available here as far as I know. Have you any idea
what's in them?
< To treat these worms the Fluke tabs have Trichlorofon and I am not sure what the
ingredients are in Clout. The next step I would try would be copper. Be very careful, usually the dosage required to kill parasite is very close to the same dosage required to kill a fish. There are suppose to be some newer less toxic forms on the market here in the US but I have not personally used them.-Chuck>
Gill & Skin Fluke Treatments in the UK
Dear Robert
Hi, I'm Martin from Cornwall in England. I've been keeping Koi for 8 years and have a gas heated 6000 Imp gallon pool in my back garden. For me 2001 was a terrible year, I have lost 6 nice carp because of ulcerated wounds caused by a very persistant infestation of gill and skin flukes. These flukes seem resistant to treatments like potassium permangonate and chloromin T.
The only thing that seems to control them properly is organophosphates, in the form of a product called 'Metosan'.
<Yes... aka many other names. My standard "pitch" on DTHP archived here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pndparasitcont.htm and the associated FAQs... in fact, just had a query today from a pond-culture scientist in India, stored here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dailyq&a.htm re the use of this economic poison and others for treating Argulus on cyprinids...>
This type of product is difficult to get hold of in the UK. do you know of any companies in the UK or USA who would be able to supply these types of products by mail order.
<Mmm, no, don't... but would ask re this compound under the various names cited in the article above... and Dimilin... of friends, associates at TMC: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tmcpropc.htm I strongly suspect they will know where to refer you>
I have been able to get my hands on enough Metosan for one treatment, the are looking better than they have looked since last May. But I now need to repeat the treatment to kill the latest juveniles to have hatched out!
<Yes... three treatments three days apart likely...>
Hoping you will be able to help and look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks Martin Yardley
<Cheers my friend. Bob Fenner>
Argulus (food, pondfish culture, disease control)
Dear D. Fenner Robert,
I am a veterinarian working in State Bank of India biggest Bank
financing agricultural and Aquacultural schemes in
India.
2.Fish farmers raise Major Indian Carps (Catla
catla, Labeo rohita etc.,)
in big freshwater ponds with an extent of 10 acres
to 100 acres Water
spread area. The culture period is 8 - 10 months
-Weight 1-2 Kg each.
To minimize the feed cost and cost of production, our
fish farmers are
using heavy doses of dried poultry droppings organic
manure) to fertilize the
pond waters and for production of Phyto & Zoo
plankton. The demerits of
this practice is too much infection with Argulus (sea
lice). As a result,
farmers are using pesticides
Viz., Deltamethrin (Butox), Dichlorovos (Nuvon)
which are retarding the growth of the fish. Please
enlighten me on the
following two points:
a. whether any effective biological control against
Argulus is available?
<None that is practical as fast as I'm aware... most practices are as yours, involving economic poisons in the class of organophosphates
(acetylcholinesterase inhibitors)... as these crustacean parasites metabolisms are similar to arthropod pests>
b. whether Diflubenzuron/lufenuron (Dimilin) can be
mixed with the
above chemicals to decrease the dosage and
frequency of chemical
application?
<Yes, once again, as far as I'm aware. Dimilin supplanted the use of DTHP (Neguvon,
Dylox...): http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pndparasitcont.htm in ornamental pond use (on cyprinids like Cyprinus carpio
(Koi carp, nishikigoi) and Carassium goeblio (goldfish) in the U.S. some years ago. Should be miscible.>
Please send technical information on the life cycle
and control methods
in big fish ponds.
<I don't have ready access to such, don't even know if this is part of the literature... would have to search as you are>
3.Please help me in the upliftment of fish farmers.
<I will gladly assist you in what ways I can. Understand that though my academic background is in fisheries, I have spent the last decades in ornamental aquatics... not production. Bob Fenner>
Thanking you.
Yours sincerely,
Dr. A. Purna Chandra Rao,
Chief Manager Technical),Region-4,Zonal Office, State
Bank of India,VIJAYAWADA-520 010,A.P; INDIA
e-Mail: ap_purna@yahoo.com ap_purna@rediffmail.com
Re: Argulus
Dr. Robert Fenner,
Thank you very much for your detailed reply.I will be
contacting you frequently and hope you will help me.
with regards,
yours sincerely,
Dr.A.Purna Chandra Rao
<I will do my best my friend. Bob Fenner>
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