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FAQs on
Exophthalmia/Pop-Eye, Cures
Related Articles: Exophthalmia/Pop-eye,
Environmental Disease,
Related FAQs: Pop-Eye
1, Pop-Eye
2, & FAQs on Popeye: Causes/Etiology:
Traumas/Mechanical Injuries,
Parasitic Involvements Suspected & Real,
Infectious Disease,
Case Histories, &
Environmental
Disease, Aggressive Behavior, Sources
of Bubbles,
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Fixing the causes... improved water quality, nutrition...time going by...
Perhaps Epsom Salt, Antibiotic, Antimicrobial use... in the water, foods
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Dwarf lion cloudy eye not swollen
5/27/2008
Hey crew,
I hope all is well at the wet web. Ok this is more of a need for confirmation.
I have a dwarf lion D. Brachypterus I have had him around 7 months. His right
eye is cloudy not swollen. the left eye is perfectly normal. His behavior is
business as usual eating to satiation. Current diet includes Enriched Krill,
mysis shrimp, and silver sides (I do give on occasion Ghost shrimp loaded with
Cyclopeeze). tank mates are a yellow tang, and a white ribbon eel. the tank is a
75 gallon mixed reef soft coral, clams , sps, LPSs, zoos, leathers, Shrooms,
pectina, inverts, with a 30 gallon fuge. water needless to say is optimal. I am
assuming that this is due to some type of trauma
<Very likely, yes>
since there are not
any obvious signs of stress or going off feed, and the other eye is perfect.
Am I right or am I putting him in Quarantine for antibiotics?
<I would not... better to leave the fish where it is>
also instead of putting him in quarantine would it be possible if necessary to
put the meds into a silver side and feed him that he does hand feed after all?
Thanks a lot Crew God bless
Dan
<And I would not "treat" the fish per se... just time going by, good water
quality, nutrition will see this eye condition heal. Bob Fenner>
Popeye in clownfish
Hate to bother you guys/gals with another question, but I am starting to get
worried about a clownfish. We have a 100 gallon with a pair of
Sebae clowns, a yellow tang, and a Rabbitfish. All appear to get along and have
been together for over a year with no new tank additions. Tank parameters are
stable: Ammonia, rIte, rAte: 0, pH: 8.2, SG: 1.025, calcium: 450,
alkalinity...eek, can't remember, but has not been an
issue in the past, and temperature: 79. About a week ago, the female clown
(about 3 inches) developed a swollen eye. I assumed it was trauma since it was
unilateral and no other fish were affected.
<We are in agreement>
She has started hosting a hairy mushroom since the eye issue started. Prior to
that, she hung out in the water column with the tang, male clown, and
Rabbitfish. She still eats and her body condition looks fine otherwise.
The eye itself looks ok...no opacity, etc. Today, the eye is HUGE....it's raised
probably about one cm. off the side of her head.
<Yikes!>
Near the top of the swelling is a slight blood tinged area. It looks like it
wants to rupture. My question is whether or not to remove her
to a hospital tank. I hated to stress her out more for what I assume is trauma
and not disease, but I am wondering if I will need antimicrobials for a
secondary bacterial infection.
<Mmm, these would not "get into" the fish expediently to do much good. I would
not move the fish...>
Do you recommend leaving her in the main tank for further observation or
removing her to a hospital tank for treatment? I am a vet, so obtaining whatever
antibiotic you recommend is not an issue. Thanks ahead of time and sorry for
taking your time. Love the site as always!
Michele
<Mmmm... do please take a look in ref.s/the Net re dosage... am sure you have
Chloramphenicol (prep., succinate) that would be efficacious... injectible,
flank... subcutaneous. Bob Fenner>
Emailing:
Cloudy Eye.jpg 9/28/07
Good evening, Crew.
<Scott>
Thanks for all of the time and effort you put in to help us "newbies".
It makes me wish that 20 years ago I had decided to go after my marine
biology degree instead of one in motion pictures. Oh well.
<I'll say!>
Yesterday, I noticed that my Batrachomoeus trispinosus had developed a
cloudy eye (please see attached image). "Sprocket, The Wet Toadfish"
<Heee!>
has been in this tank for several years (first at my office, then here
when I saved the tank and its inhabitants from being thrown out in an
office remodel) and has always had one pupil much smaller than the
other. He has never had a problem with his vision (as far as I can
tell).
The only change recently in the tank was trying to use tap water that
had been stored and aerated for a week prior to top off. Could something
still present in the tap water be cause of this eye irritation? Or could
it be a biological problem?
<Mmm, much more likely a physical trauma...>
Thanks again for all of your assistance. I wish politicians were as well
informed as you folks.
<Me too... or honest, or cared...>
Regards,
Scott
<Naught but good care, time going by will improve the eye of this
batrachoidid. Bob Fenner> |
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Popeye (not the sailor-man, toot toot)
This is just some information I wanted to share with Bob Fenner. I've been reading the faq's for a long time, mainly the ones on
Popeye and wanted his input on something that was happening in my tanks quite a while ago. It seemed that every new fish I'd add to my tank would bring on a case of scratching and shuddering on a few of the inhabitants already in the tank and sometimes the new addition as well. There would be no obvious spots on the fish other than occasionally a cloudy eye. After killing a cream angel through stressing it with all sorts of treatments
I decided to try freshwater dips on all new victims. What actually fell off the fish were flat transparent oval parasites like mini lenses ranging from 1.5mm to 4mm and totally invisible in the main
aquarium but would immediately turn white in freshwater and fall to the bottom. They seemed to be mainly on the fishes eyes and the eye would only turn cloudy and swell plus possibly develop a bubble if there were 2 or 3 on it. I have just purchased a blue ring angel over the internet and had it delivered even though the vendor informed me about
his Popeye, after leaving him in a tank on his own for over a week to recuperate
I decided to give him a freshwater dip and guess what, three of these little contact lenses fell off his eye and the
Popeye is gone. My question really is why is this such a common problem with me but in all the internet
Popeye theories
I've read I've never heard anyone mention these mainly eye parasites as a cause of
Popeye with an easy treatment.
<Mmm, don't know, or am not so sure this is such a common link... cause-symptomatically>
for months in my main aquarium these little things would return and the fish would scratch and shudder
occasionally and a little flat disc would just about be visible on the eye of one or more fishes, this happened on a monthly cycle and has now stopped altogether. Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated as my local shops don't seem to know what they are even though
I have taken the parasites that fell off the fishes with me in a small jar.
best regards Archie
<Thank you for sending your notes, observations along. I do suspect that the disks you saw were trematodes (flukes)... and that they might be linked to the symptoms you note. I am a BIG FAN of pH-adjusted freshwater dips for most all marine fish moves... as my long writing history will testify. Will archive your input for others edification. Bob Fenner>
Epsom salts and Pop-eye 6/17/04
I was reading some of the other questions re: pop eye, and am still left
confused.
<no worries... I spend most of my days like that... confused, that is... not
with pop-eye <G>)>
I have a 10 gallon tank with a molly, a platy, a frog and a loach. My silver
molly has one eye that seems to have popped out tremendously!
<usually caused by blunt force. A black-eye so to speak>
Other than the eye, he appears to be normal as do the others. The fish person at
Petco recommended to treat with "quick Cure" for 5
days.
<Yikes!!!!! Very mistaken. Not harmful, but not even remotely useful for this
ailment (a good med overall though for parasites)>
I've done that, and have not noticed any difference.
<indeed... at worst, this is a bacterial infection that requires antibiotics.
Usually, though, it is merely an accumulation of fluid behind the eye from
getting a little bump. >
I saw you recommended isolating the fish to another tank and using Epson salt,
but I only have a fish bowl I could use. Will a molly survive in a bowl vs.
tank to administer the treatment?<Hmmm... in this case, since the symptom is
suspected to be non-contagious, you can treat it in the main tank>
If so, how much Epson salt do I use?
<one tablespoon per five gallons then repeat after three days with another half
dose. A water change in between will be helpful>>
Also, my tank currently has a small amount of aquarium salt dissolving in a
container to help maintain my water levels, will this do the same as Epson salt?
<they are unrelated... no. Sodium chloride versus Magnesium sulfate>
Please help me. This is all rather new to me. Thanks. Wendy Dern
<no worries my dear... I suspect your fish will be fine very soon :) Anthony>
Help! Green Water and Maracyn
Hi Folks,
<Valerie>
Thank you for all your work on answering our questions!
<Welcome>
I have a Queen Angel with one severe Popeye. I have treated with Epsom
salts (twice), and have done 3 days of Maracyn treatment (tonight/tomorrow
will be the 4th and 5th days). The Popeye is still bad and is now showing
additional "bubbles" on the Popeye.
<Good observation, bad situation. Cases like this prove to be very persistent...
months to forever/incurable>
I understand that improvement of the
Popeye may take a week or so.
<I hope you're right>
What I am worried about is that today the water in the tank is green! Could
the Maracyn be causing that?
<Yes... anti... biotic... Maracyn is a brand name for Erythromycin...>
I had removed my charcoal and PhosGuard on
the second day. Should I add it back in?
<Nothing>
the Maracyn package says that if
the charcoal is more than 5 days old it can stay in the system.
<Yes... carbons are very rapidly exhausted... ones more than a few hours in use
are almost entirely "used up">
I have keep the skimmer running although there is a lot of foam in the sump.
I turned the UV off but just put it back on after reading on your site that
it can stay on. All other fish are doing fine.
Thank you so much for your help!!!
Valerie
<Lots to say... I take it you're read through the FAQs on Popeye/Exophthalmia
archived on WetWebMedia.com and if not, I would do so (you can use the Google
search tool on the homepage)... other than stable, optimized conditions, good
nutrition, there is not much else "to do" here. Bob Fenner>
Treatment for Popeye
Hi everyone, hope you are having a wonderful New Year 2005! I have a
somewhat urgent question, as it seems all questions to this site must be.
<Mmm, some definitely more so than others>
I have an algae blenny with Popeye, he has had it about 3 weeks, and it was not
getting better in my main tank though my water parameters are good. (pH 8.0-8.2,
nitrite = 0, nitrate =10ppm, ammonia = 0, alkalinity 32.meq/L, temp 79 F,
salinity 1.024). Last night I took him out of the main tank an put him in the
bare bottom hospital tank. I have a powerhead with venturi and a heater and
thermometer. I have a PVC tee in the bottom for hiding.
<Good>
I don't have biological filtration, and the water is newly made up.
<Will need such filtration, soon. Perhaps a seeded sponge filter>
I did adjust for temp, salinity and pH. He seems fine both in the main tank
and now in the hospital tank. Just the eye looks cloudy and swollen.
I added Melafix as this has worked for me before for Popeye, with
cloudiness. Should I add Epsom salt as well (with the Melafix)?
<I would add it... and not any more Melafix>
how much for a 10 gal tank?
<Two level teaspoons>
If this doesn't work after a week, what should use? and should I remove all the
water with Melafix before starting something else?
<Give the Epsom at least a month...>
Also, since I don't have biological (or other filtration) how much water change
should I do per day?
<Monitor, test for ammonia, change out enough to keep below 1.0 ppm.... As
stated, look for biological filtration... and do water changes with water from
an established (your main) system. The cause of the Popeye is physical,
environmental>
And should I add water from my main tank into the hospital tank for the changes,
and just put the new water that I make up in the main tank?
<Ahh, the former>
I understand that I should have used the water from my main tank to begin with,
but that just didn't work out. Maybe using the main tank water for hospital
tank changes will make up for it, and give my main tank a small refresher each
day as a bonus!
<Good thinking. Bob Fenner>
Re: treatment for Popeye
I received the below email on 01/03 stating to use 1 teaspoon of Epsom per 5
gallons of water. Someone submitted today a question regarding seeing many
different amounts of Epsom prescribed for this condition, as I have also seen.
<Yes>
I am only using the 2 teaspoons as stated below, and after 1.5 weeks in the
hospital he is NO better. Should I increase the amount all the way to 2
tablespoons?
<Up to you. Worth trying at this point>
I would like him to get better in the next 1.5 weeks as I am leaving for a few
days, and I don't think my husband wants to handle the water changes required
for this hospital tank. Please let me know, and thanks in advance for any
information you can provide to help my little friend.
<Understand... that discourse over the Net necessarily requires generalities,
"rules of thumb"... and better to shy on the conservative end of any given
treatment regimen. Bob Fenner>
Re: treatment for Popeye
OK.. thanks, I think I will increase the dosage incrementally and monitor him. I
agree about being on the conservative end, I usually do that, and will continue
to do so. Keeps me out of trouble!
<You are wise here... or at least we're both lost! Bob Fenner>
Re: treatment for Popeye
Thanks so much for your quick response. Is there some way I can get the
biological filtration started quickly to reduce the number of water changes?
BioSpira or other additive, as I currently don't have a seeded sponge filter?
Can I add a small piece of live rock?
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm>
I really don't want to do water changes every day for a month. I did it the
first time just last night (about 2 gallons) and it was a real pain. I have
tested the ammonia 3 times since night before last, and it is staying below
.25ppm at this point.
Also, when I do the water change do I add more Epsom (25% change, 1/2 teaspoon
Epsom)? Will the Epsom help with the cloudiness and the swelling?
<Yes and yes>
Thanks so much for your help, it has been invaluable to me. Also.. because of
my research on your website, I just upgraded my Prizm protein skimmer to an
AquaC Remora Pro...is has been installed for 3+ days, and has done better in
that time (not even broke in yet) than my Prizm ever did in that same time or
longer! I had that Prizm for 2.5 years and never knew that there was better...
knowledge is power!
<Indeed and in action. Bob Fenner>
- Treating Pop-eye -
I have a coral beauty with pop eye. Having read up on this it seems to be an injury.
He is eating well and behaving normally.
<Ahh good, good signs.>
I have read your FAQ's and just want to ask some specific questions. I do not have a
separate tank and would like to treat in my main tank. its a 55gal.
<Should be able to treat in place provided no one is hassling this fish. He needs peace and quiet.>
I do a 20% water change every 3 weeks and my water quality is good.
In my tank I have A bubble tip Anemone, several kinds of shrimp, flame scallop live rock, yellow tang,
cinn clown,
damsels, several varieties of star fish hermit crabs, feather dusters, snails, clams, will the
Epsom salt harm any of these???
<No, should be safe to use in small amounts.>
Also would I add the Epsom salt right to the tank or do I need to dissolve it first????
<I would dissolve it first in a glass of tank water.>
Once added will it effect my Specific gravity much???
<I can if you add too much.>
& Should I compensate for this???
<Not for now, but good to run the tests anyway.
Cheers, J -- >
Popeye/Invert. IDs/interested in helping/WWM 9/29/05
Hello to all.
I recently had to do a major move for my fish, a couple of days later I
noticed one of my clown's eyes was bulging. He had got caught in the
net during the move and the water and sand was greatly stirred causing
quite a mucky mess. So I am guessing that the Popeye was due to an
injury received, then being in the messy water for a minute didn't help.
<Well-stated>
I immediately removed the fish and placed him in QT. It has now been
near 2 months. I started off using melafix (hahaha-what a waste!)
<Agreed>
since it indicated that it is helpful for Popeye.
<Scam!>
Then I got into the FAQ's on this site and started adding Epsom salt (no longer
adding melafix), 1
tbls per 5 gal. Wow! What a tremendous help! So now, I realize my fish
can be in QT for quite some time, however.... when do I know that it is
safe to put him back in his display tank? The eye started to look as if
it was going to fall out, that was before the Epsom salt was added. The
swelling went down and it has been at an idle position for a few weeks
now. Will the eye go back into 'socket' or what should I expect in a
general scenario?
<The eye may never fully "shrink" back... If the fish is otherwise healthy, I
would go ahead and return it to the main tank>
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Another thing if you have spare time.....
Any locations (I am looking into books as well) recommended for ID of
various growths? I believe some of the growths to be sponges of some
sort, but there are some worms that I am unfamiliar with and a creature
of some sort that has grown out of a tube (I can not explain this one,
too odd for my vocabulary. I'm hoping the fact that it has a tube may be
helpful in guiding me, haha far fetched but I'm hopeful) But the
worms.....maybe you know this one without seeing an image. When
looking at the rocks all you see is little thread like strings spread
out. They sometimes reach from one rock to another. There are a great
deal of these little "strings" appearing to be a greenish color. Upon
further inspection, these strings are attached to the top of the body of
a worm (like a mass of stringy hair)....the worms are orange in color
ranging from small to quite large. I have taken a syringe and squirted
water in that area....when doing this, debris floats up. It is like
these worms gather uneaten food, and gunk and just set in it. Thanks
for the patience in my attempt to explain. I am looking in to a digital
camera, maybe when I do this one of you will be interested in viewing
the pictures.
<Mmm, we have a bunch of Invertebrate Identification files, and Ron Shimek has
done a great job of writing up guides to such unknowns and his work is largely
published, accessible on the Net... additionally, he, Anthony Calfo and I have
printed ID works on invert.s, and there are many such scientific and popular
diving references... many of which are cited at the ends of my articles posted
on WWM, and available through SeaChallengers.com, Amazon...>
Ok.....one last thing! : )
I am throwing ideas around in my head. I am interested in starting some
sort of salt water research/business. I don't want to jump into this, I
am still young and have lots of things to learn. However, it is very
interesting and enticing. I believe I could do great things with it and
would like some input as to how feasible this would be to accomplish,
especially not living near a coast.
<Many possibilities... and exciting!>
What would be the best way to go
about learning what I need to know (i.e. the scientific names,
medications, etc.) other than trial and error.
<T and E... too long and costly... Reap the benefits of those who have come
before... read, voraciously, widely... with a discerning mind... directed toward
discovering "needs" in the trade... to exploit, develop>
I am not sure exactly how you go about choosing members to respond to e-mails,
and I am sorry
if I am bluntly butting in, but are you looking for any more help? (I think
that is one of the best ways for me to learn is by teaching
others)....just thought I'd throw that in there while it was on my mind.
Thank you!!!!!
Codie
<Always looking for help. Please tell me/us a bit about yourself... your area/s
of expertise, time availability (we have many young and not friends who have
school, other commitments that they must focus on foremost)... It is obvious you
have a good grasp of English, a desire to help. Bob Fenner>
Marine fish: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly... A
Clint Eastwood spaghetti aquarium? Nope: Persistent Pop-eye... -
05/13/2006
Hello Everyone,
Love the site use it all the time for the good, the bad and the ugly side of
keeping marine fish. I have been in the hobby for quite a few years now and
can't say I have ever seen this one before. I can't seem to find the right
information anywhere on the site so I thought I would email for the first time
ever.
Well the situation is I have a sick Chalk Bass that I have had for at least 6
months. He was quarantined prior to adding him to my display tank (learned my
lesson on quarantine a long time ago) showed no signs of anything for a month
prior to being added to the established display. Now 2 months later boom March
15 POPEYE in 1 eye.
I thought it was an injury at first as it did fully heal within 1 week. then 4-6
weeks later boom Popeye again. He does not show any other signs of infection
bacterial or viral. NO marks, no bumps, no sores nothing. Again he healed up.
Well about three days ago I noticed his eye beginning to swell again!!! This is
the third time and this time it is both eyes.
<Happens... initially this was likely due to a physical trauma... but does just
keep getting "more susceptible"...>
By far the worst he has looked.
I put him in a quarantine tank and treated with Paraguard and Kanaplex in his
food. He still acts quite normal swimming, breathing and eating. The problem is
he basically acts normal but has huge swollen eyes (clear bubbles with blood in
them). I don't think he has gone blind yet because he still sees me and comes
out for food.
Since he got sick I tested all tank parameters once a day due to the treatments.
He is in QT now and for the last 3 days. Everything is great no ammonia, no
nitrates PH perfect nothing unusual. I keep up on water changes and feed a
variety of foods. Brine & Mysis shrimp, Spirulina flake, Omega flake and
saturate frozen food 2-3 times a week with Selcon. So far no other fish has
shown any type of infection. In fact the opposite everyone else is thriving!!
Now I am worried that he has something bad like TB or a sister bacteria to TB or
an internal Tumor.
<Mmm... possibly, but doubtful... where would the Mycobacteria get in?>
I realize this is a pretty rare and severe diagnosis but he is not improving or
getting worse just staying the same.
There was never any aggression in the display as it is a 75 bowfront with 2
clowns 1 Kole Tang and 1 chalk bass. Nothing was added prior to his affliction.
So I am really at a loss and I don't want to lose my fish.
What do you think is going on? Do you think that all the fish are at risk?
Should I "put him down" . How long can this go on?
<I would not sacrifice this fish... can go on... for years>
My Process of elimination:
not water quality or debris as I vacuum and water change regularly
I don't' think malnutrition he does eat
I don't think gas bubbles / microbubbles or excess gas
I use RO water and agitate it overnight before adding
so far seems to be non-infectious
no visible marks on body or fins doesn't seem to be parasitic
I don't' think he has been harassed
belly is not swollen and fins in good shape
not overcrowded
<I agree/concur with your synopsis... as stated... tis likely blood/vascular in
nature... some recurring semi-permanent damage to the circulation feeding the
one eye... very hard to impossible to completely cure in some
cases/circumstances... Providing the best conditions, nutrition... as you've
done, is about the best shot for helping>
Thanks in advance for you help. Hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely
Nadeane
<Bob Fenner>
Question about Epsom Salt Treatment for Pop-eye - 10/15/06
Dear WWM Crew,
I have a sebae clown with one bulging eye (other eye is fine). He's the only
fish in a 40 gallon reef tank, 196W CF, deep sand bed, bioballs, AquaC remora,
UV sterilizer, and carbon. Tank has been running 3 years and all tank stats are
reading fine. The bulging eye is not cloudy or otherwise abnormal, except for
the fact that it is bulging :)
Based on reading the pop-eye and Epsom FAQs and the chat forums on WWM, I
diagnosed the pop-eye as the result of trauma and treated the tank with 8
tablespoons total of Epsom salt on day 0, and then another 4 tablespoons on day
3. It is now day 8 and the bulging eye is still there. The fish is eating
great, very active, nuzzling in his anemone, etc.
Just wondering how long a response to the Epsom treatment typically takes in
your experience? <Weeks... Epsom salts is not a silver arrow remedy, but rather
something that will "help" ease the swelling. The underlying trauma that caused
the initial swelling needs to heal in its own time.> I read in the FAQs that the
Epsom treatment can be repeated, but I couldn't find any advice on how often to
repeat (or what the half-life of the Epsom salt already in the tank is). <Would
supplement the salts when you change water. Do keep an eye on specific gravity
for the tank as you are still adding a salt.> Any advice you have to give would
be appreciated.
Thanks so much! And best regards,
Preston
Portland, Oregon
<Cheers, J -- >
Pop Eye eats me's spinach! (a success story) 3/11/07
<Greetings, Jeff. GrahamT here.>
My tank is a 75 gallon reef. Last Monday I noticed my Long Nose Hawk had a
severe case of pop eye.
<Bummer.>
After researching your site I decided to try the Epsom Salt.
<Good call.>
Did a 20% water change and added 1 tbs of Epsom Salt per 5 gallons.
<Actually, prefer 1 tablespoon to 10 gallons (
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/epsomfaqs.htm )To the main system? Not generally
advised. Won't mal-affect any other inhabitants, but is a good practice to
isolate any ailing animals into their own system.>
Did another water change on Thursday with a 1 tbs per gallon retreat of Epsom
Salt.
<Wah?!? 1:1??? >
Almost one week later Sunday the Long Nose Hawks eye is back to normal.
<Ahh, good. Must be understood that Epsom is more of a relief/aide than a
treatment in itself... also outlined on WWM, so you probably already knew.>
Just want to say thanks guys for providing us reefers with an
extremely valuable site for our reefing
problems. Jeff
<You are very welcome, Jeff! I am glad to hear from a fellow hobbyist that made
such productive use of our archive. Furthermore, you are a hero to your little
buddy! YAY!
-GrahamT>
Re: Metal Halide size and T5 question, Flagfin angel dis./recovery
3/1/07
Thanks Bob for the prompt reply,
<Welcome Larry>
I think I'm going to go with the 150 HQI due to heat issues. I just needed to
make sure that I could keep SPS and clams.
<Ahh, this would be my choice as well>
I'd like to share a success story with you about a sick fish since you here so
many failures by hobbyists.
<Please do>
I have had a beautiful Flag Fin angel for 3 years. It became ill when one of my
older fish died and I didn't find out till 2 days later. The angel developed
bilateral cloud eye, fin rot, hemorrhagic patches on both sides of its abdomen
and mouth. I immediately place it in my QT tank. It progressed very rapidly and
the fish just labored at the top of the tank. It was literally knocking at
deaths door and I thought about euthanizing it. I started treatment right away
with 2 antibiotics, penicillin and furan along with every other day FW and
methylene blue dips and every other day water changes to my QT tank. Well now I
call the angel the miracle fish. Its almost back to normal except for some
residual damage to one eye. This fish did not eat for 12 days and now its
swimming around the tank and just starting to peck at food. Its not completely
out of the woods yet, but if it starts to eat again I just may get lucky.
<Yes... your diligence has paid well>
By the way, I'm a emergency medicine physician and my wife and friends are
calling me the fish doctor.
Have a great day and thanks for the help.
Larry
<A good title. BobF>
Pop eye?
Bob,
Just this morning I noticed that my blue face has some sort of white film
on his, but worse the eye is actually sticking out! Is this a form of
fungus or bacteria? As you will remember this tank is coppered, just put in
MarOxy yesterday. Will this eliminate it? Should I try a dip? Could be the
copper? Should I hit the tank with Maracyn
Thanks
Tom
>>
Likely, some sort of physical trauma, compounded by the ongoing treatment(s)...
I would definitely NOT net the fish, move it... or add the Maracyn (tm), or
erythromycin (same) or any other "medication" at this point... If the
eye doesn't resolve (the markings become more discrete) in a week or so... if
may become "worth" the trouble/damage to net, coat the eye with a
disinfectant... Let's wait.
Bob Fenner
Pop-eye clown
Thanks for all your info, will the pop eye condition heal or what do I do????
>>
Hopefully, and do nothing... manipulating the fish at this point will very
likely do more harm than good.
Bob Fenner
Blindness
Gentlemen:
<cheers friend>
About two weeks ago, my Crown Squirrelfish developed exophthalmia in both
eyes. Thanks to Anthony for suggesting Epsom salts usage. Fortunately, the
condition subsided within about four days.
<quite welcome... it is a wonderful and fast home remedy>
Unfortunately, I believe that the fish is now blind in both eyes.
<possible... may improve in time or not>
He still swims about, occasionally bumping into things. His sense of smell must
be acute, as he "looks" for food when I feed the other animals.
<yes...they can adapt. Consider a small specialized tank for it down the road
if necessary>
I have resorted to placing a piece of krill on a plastic stick and move it close
to him. He eagerly devours it.
<ahhh... you are very kind and empathetic. Kudos and keep up the good
work>
Is there anything that I can do to hopefully reverse the blindness? Your
suggestions are always valued.
<dubious but perhaps vitamin supplementation (even in the water). I like Dick
Boyd's Vita-Chem for this. No guarantees... but worth the try>
Thanks, Mitch
<kindly, Anthony>
Popeye and Bullies and Epsom Salt
Bob / Anthony,
<cheers my friend>
I introduced a new Copperband into my tank last week.
My tangs beat the crap out of him so I moved him to my
refugium tank. He got pop-eye in his left eye probably from being chased
and banging
against something.
<agreed... blunt trauma and a simple build up of fluid behind the
"black-eye">
Anyway, the Epsom salt you suggested worked !!!.
<hey... don't be so surprised :)>
The Epsom salt is drawing out the liquid from the eye.
<indeed... it is quite good at helping to regulate body fluids (applied to
birds, fishes, humans, etc). What it cannot do is cure swelling that has been
caused by or overrun by a bacterial infection (future reference). It was very
good that you took quick action>
He is recovering and
is
starting to eat brine shrimp again...but how do I re-introduce him back
into the main display tank with those bully tangs ?
<it may simply be that they will never get along. Tangs are categorically
tough characters. If the copperband is there to do a job (eat Aiptasia, Syconoid
sponges, etc) then remove the tangs to QT for a couple of weeks while the BF
works and gets established. Still.. the reintroduction of the tang gang may be a
less than welcome affair>
Any suggestion to avoid future bullying of this wonderful, docile animal
would be appreciated.
<yep... don't mix bullies with docile animals...heehee. In very large aquaria
it can work (couple/few hundred gallons+) but in popular sized smaller aquariums
it is pot luck of it will work or not.>
Thanks,
Chuck Spyropulos
<best regards, Anthony>
Re: Popeye and Bullies
Hi Anthony,
Any word from Bob yet regarding medicated foods
for pop-eye ?
<Mmm, here I am. There really aren't any specific antibiotics for exopthalmic
conditions... As you've likely discussed, most events are environmental (poor
water quality of many kinds, physical trauma) mediated... and "cures"
of the nature of improved water quality, nutrition, care... and time going by.
There are recorded cases of microbial co-involvement and even parasitic causes
of "Pop-eye"... and some writers have promoted the use of
gram-negative antibiotics (Chloramphenicol, Oxytetracycline... and others)
introduced through food intake, injection (not just placed in the water or
administered through baths)... See authors/works by Nelson Herwig, Edward Noga
for about the sum total of what has been tried here. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Chuck Spyropulos
Re: Popeye and Bullies
Anthony,
My tank capacity is 300 gallons, so I thought
that the tangs would have plenty of room and
not bully the Copperband.
<agreed, my friend. I would have taken the same chance>
As you suggested, I will try temporarily removing
the bullies, and let the Copperband get established
after he is back to good health.
<it may very well work. If you have an excuse to change the rockscape a bit
as well to confuse them it may also help>
Thanks for the suggestion.
Regards,
Chuck Spyropulos
<kindly, Anthony>
Re: Popeye and Bullies
Anthony,
Sorry to bother you again....
<no worries my friend>
He IS eating...which is a good sign and it
would make antibiotic soaked foods an attractive
option.
<agreed>
He is still stressed by the move from the
main tank so moving to QT, although an option,
would probably not be good for him right now.
<also agreed>
Can I soak food in the Furan based antibiotic and
feed it to the Copperband (in the refugium) without effects
on other animals in the main tank (inverts, clams, etc)?
<yes... with little or no harm to the other inverts you can feed a medicated
food. However, me may want a different med for this. I need to chat with Bob
about the correct terminology... but the gist of it is (I believe) that Furan
based drugs are not antibiotics, but rather bactericidal... er... something like
that. As such, they are very effective in the water topically, but may not work
as well as another drug internally. Let me chat with Bob about this one and get
back to you... please do holler back if you get no response by tomorrow (that
means I forgot while swimming in a sea of e-mail :) With kind regards,
Anthony>
Chuck Spyropulos
Diver, Aquarist, Snowboarder, Golfer (well almost)
and 4-dimensional space-time dweller <VVBG>
(Sorry, you got my business name template!)
<heehee... no worries. You got the WWM crew member that thinks he has a sense
of humor :)>
Re: Popeye and Bullies
Anthony,
<cheers>
A few more question if you don't mind ?
How can you tell if the pop-eye is infected ?
<there is no easy way to do so... but an infected eye will swell or persist
for many days or weeks while simple trauma begins to heal in 1-4 days with Epsom
Salt>
It has been around 3 days, with one Epsom salt treatment for my
Copperband's pop-eye. His eye got better (I could see his eye) but now it is
really
swollen and cloudy....does this necessarily mean he needs to be quarantined
and treated with antibiotics ?
<if you thing the stress of moving him would be significant and you can get
him to eat... antibiotic soaked foods would be fine>
Also, you mentioned a furan based
antibiotic in the FAQ. Is this easily obtained at pet/fish stores ?
<yes my friend... a common med and a very good first choice when vet meds are
not convenient. Furan/Nitrofurazolidone mixes are best... many brands offer
this. Jungle brand "Fungus Eliminator" has it and can be used in QT
for marines at double strength. up to 3 treatments in 5 days with water changes
would be the most direct address of this fish>
Thanks for your help, again
Charles T. Spyropulos... Principal Systems Software Engineer
<Anthony Calfo... Aquarist, Author and occupier of Space <VBG>>
Pop Eye and use of Epsom Salt
Hi Bob
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob, fresh back from the Caribbean,
tries to inflate his dingy while awash in a sea of slides and pictures of fishes
from the trip... not his dingy)>
I have a 30gal QT with a sick Bi-color Dwarf Angel. When I purchased him he
looked good. I acclimated him per FFExpress details and made sure that the water
in the QT is good (from main tank). PH 8.2; Ammonia 0; Nitrite 0; Nitrate 0;
phosphate 0; SG 1.020; temp 82f (I have other new fish with Ick). Frequent water
changes as you previously recommended. I'm currently using Melafix, day 3 as of
now. Is this a good product for pop eye?
<its not a good product for anything... it is mildly therapeutic at best...
claims to cure the most extraordinary and incongruous list of pathogenic
organisms (yada yada yada...). From a logical if not scientific point of view
the products claims are very dubious. Yes... tonic at best. But then.. the proof
is in the pudding: what has it cured quickly for you? If it has helped you, do
use it... but consider that there are actually time tested and reliable meds out
there in preference>
Will adding Epsom Salt drain the puffy eyes of the bi-color?
<a very good chance if it is merely a fluid build up and not a full blown
bacterial infection>
If so, how much do I use and where do I get it?
<from the Pharmacy... it is used as a laxative and to soak sore body parts
in. Magnesium sulfate. in QT, add 1 tablespoon per five gallons... you can
repeat after a few days. No harm... this salt is in your fish food and sea salt
naturally. A hard water element>
Can it be used with Melafix?
<heehee... anything can be mixed with Melafix... its just snake...er.. tea
oil>
Thanks! Steve
<my pleasure... Anthony>
Re: Pop Eye and use of Epsom Salt
Thanks for the fast response Anthony!
<very welcome>
Can you recommend a good med for the Bi-Color? I'm a bit desperate and don't
want him to lose his eye.
<if it is just one eye then it was simply blunt trauma and unlikely to become
complicated. Medicating the whole tank may cause more harm than good. If the
fish will eat antibiotic laced pellets or flake food great. Else, consider
making a batch of frozen food that it will eat with meds in it. Many food
recipes here on WWM, in Bob's CMA and abroad... do find one with ingredients
that you recognize your angel will eat. If you see stabilization or improvement
with the Epsom salt in 3 days... you are likely home free>
Many thanks Steve
<best regards, Anthony>
Popeye and Epsom salt
Hi Guys. I sent this question last night and a guy whose name I
didn't recognize (I think Dave Dowless ) responded saying he would not use the
Epsom salt method.
<yes.. I noticed afterwards and chatted with David about it>
I am confused because I thought based on reading the FAQ
that the Epsom salt method was the way to go.
<indeed... in my opinion it is very helpful indeed and has almost no negative
effects. We all (thankfully!) have different perspectives and David was
expressing his. My suggestion to David/all is to simply explain your perspective
and let all consider and make an intelligent consensus that suits your
needs/perception. David is an excellent aquarist and has simply had different
experiences I suppose>
He also said not to use Epsom salt in the tank which I also thought was OK based
on reading the FAQ.
<you are correct. It is quite OK and even helpful in the main display. One of
the few treatments that can be done without QT>
So I just wanted to bounce it off another one of you to see what you
thought. I will do nothing as David last night indicated I should, if
you guys agree. I did a 10% water change this morning because I figured it
couldn't hurt. The tang's eye looks about the same this
morning. Thanks again, Bret
<I do indeed recommend using Epsom salt (hard to overdose too!) for initially
treating singular exophthalmia (one Popeye). It is usually a simple bump that
causes it and some fluid builds up behind the eye. Often the Epsom salt will
purge the fluid before it becomes a bacterial infection or the eye is lost. Use
1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and repeat after 3 days (half dose if you feel
conservative). Best regards, Anthony>
Treat Popeye with Epsom Salt...I wouldn't!
Hello.
<Hi!>
I have read all of the FAQ already but I'm still not sure what to
do. I have a 3" yellow tang in my 72G bowfront (I know it's kind
of a small tank, upgrading for Christmas). I came home today and his
right eye is bulged way out. His left eye is fine and both eyes are
still clear. I can clearly see bubbles under the bulging
eye. I pulled out and read in "The Conscientious Marine
Aquarist" that this could be a water quality issue. I just ran a
full battery of Salifert tests:
PH - 8.2
NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - <5
Alk - 9.0 dKH
Temp. - 79
Everything seems in order as far as I know. The tank is FOWLR and a
4" DSB. Tankmates are a 2.5" longnose Hawkfish, an 3"
ornate wrasse, and a 12" snowflake moray. All of them appear
fine. Since I can't see any damage to either eye it doesn't seem like
a blunt trauma injury even though only one eye appears to be
affected. But the water tests seem good too. What am I
missing?
<Everything appears to be in perfect order.>
Should I use the Epsom salt without knowing exactly what is wrong?
<I wouldn't.>
If so, can I add it to the tank or do I need to quarantine the tang.
<Treatments of any kind should be done in QT. Always.>
I have a 20 Q tank but that's small enough I'm afraid it would stress him
out. Also, if Epsom salt is in order, the dosage is 1 tablespoon per
5 gallons 3 times over 5 days right?
<I would skip the Epsom's salt.>
I hope that gives you enough information to make a suggestion. Thanks
for any advice you can offer.
<Normally Popeye is caused by a collision with a rock or the side of the
tank. I wouldn't worry about this too much. Simply watch him for signs of other
problems and move to a QT if necessary. Some experts have tried to link Popeye
to a virus but as yet this hypothesis is unproven. At any rate, it isn't
contagious...just not pretty. He will likely recover relatively fast if you keep
water conditions optimal. David Dowless>
Bret
Pop-Eye
I have just put in my second Coral Beauty in my 60 gallon reef tank.
The first one had died with Pop-Eye and Ich. It was quarantined till death.
The second Coral Beauty also has Pop-Eye, I have been treating with an
herbal medication. It has been swimming normal, along with a health appetite.
<Consider searching Wetwebmedia.com for information on Popeye. Epsom salts is
a good way to treat this problem and the directions for using this are on the
WWM site. Just do a word search through the facts>
It has recently been swimming around an Arrow Crab that I have in the tank.
When the Coral gets close to the crab, it let's the crab grab hold of it's bad
eye.
I think that the Coral Beauty is trying to peal of the dead eye lens.
<The lens isn't dead...or at least I hope not>
I have pulled the Arrow Crab from the tank and put it in another tank.
<Good!>
Is this normal behavior?
<Arrows can be rather aggressive. It's hard to think the angel appreciated
this behavior>
Should I let this cleaning process continue?
<I don't think this was cleaning>
Will this harm the Coral Beauty's eye, or pull it completely out?
<Possibly>
Thank you for your time and response to my questions.
You have been very helpful in the past.
<Thanks! Do yourself a favor and search the WetWebMedia site for facts and
articles. Popeye isn't that difficult to cure but you need to arrest its
progression fast. Try searching with the keywords "Popeye Epsom
Salts." Details on WWM>
Daniel
Pop-Eye II
Can I put Epsom salt in the tank directly?
<Yes>
Is it safe with live soft corals, crabs, starfish, snails,...?
<Completely, all can be revealed by reading about this treatment on
www.WetWebMedia.com. It has previously been discussed in great detail. -Steven
Pro>
Popeye and skimmer selection
Hi ....... My dear sweet purple tang has one pop eye. I was
treating with Epsom salts but wanted to make sure I could leave my carbon filter
in. I assume so because it is a salt similar to salt we normally add
in....Correct? (Or is there something in Epsom that a carbon filter
will remove? <Should be OK time should help. See here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
for more> Also.....what is a good protein skimmer that you'd recommend for a
50 gallon tank? <on the WWM main page, at the bottom, is a google search for
just the site. Put skimmer in here and follow the links> Love your
site<thank you>!!!!! thanks......missy
Popeye still... properly dosing antibiotics 2/15/03
Sorry to continue to plague with continued questions but am
frustrated by conflicting advice and seek yours as being most
knowledgeable.
<Steven... part of the problem here is your apparent (and natural, given)
sense that something must be done fast. The impatience led to the rash
commitment to a weak or inappropriate drug that you now simply must finish (to
be responsible and not allow/encourage the development of a resistant bacterial
strain because of short-dosing). So keep in mind that nothing good happens fast
in the aquarium. And that's not a bad thing. I assure you that in such cases of
disease... isolation in QT with small daily water changes and stable water
quality buys a lot of time for you to research and make a sound judgment the
first time. If the fish dies within a day or two... there was nothing that could
have been done with antibiotics to save him. They simply need time to work>
Black & White Heniochus responding very slowly to Maracyn 2 in QT.
<five full days is the minimum treatment with antibiotics. Really 7 or more
is better. Results at best don't show until day 3 or 4 typically>
Cannot find other than Nitrofurogene locally
<mail order here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/sc_view.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4626
there are 4 furan based meds on this page. You can have them sent by priority
mail (USPS $3.85) 1-3 day service or even overnight if you like>
and it has been suggested that I do a 20 percent water change with
activated copper filter for 24 hours and then switch to Nitrofurogene.
<I suspect the med named is supposed to be Aquarium Products "Nitrofura-G".
It is what I've been recommending (Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone based
meds)>
What say you to this and also treating display tank with a half dose of the
Maracyn 2 as a prophylaxis to prevent other fish with catching same
disease that were in the tank originally with the diseased fish since removed
though after two days they do not exhibit any signs of problem other than one
blue tang with a split fin. If they do come down with the disease what should I
treat the display tank with to avoid killing bacterial filter
<half doses and doses stopped short are not only ineffective, but they are
dangerous (creating resistant strains of bacteria in the world). For this
reason, the government has been considering regulation of pet medications (too
many people misapplying antibiotics). Please use the full strength treatment in
the main tank, my friend. Then do a water change and continue with any
furan-based drug. Remember to do daily water changes too in QT. QT all new fish
from the start to avoid such matters in the future>
Many Thanks, Stephen Pace Original answers were provided by Anthony.
<good luck, Anthony>
Popeye
Have completed treatment with both: Maracyn 2, changed water and then
Furacyn twice with some improvement in my B&W Heniochus or Wimple fish.
What, if anything more would you recommend other than euthanasia and patience? Thank
You, Stephen Pace
<What I would have suggested in place of the above: Epsom salts... please
read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: Popeye
Epsom Salt was recommended for an apparent contusion and not fort clear eyes
with no apparent injury for which the conclusion was a bacterial infection
to be treated with the tetracycline and Furan per Scott. Thanks, Bob. have I
misunderstood something?
Also, it affected both eyes!
<Ohh, I misunderstood. Would use antimicrobials/biotics here... did you
discover the root cause of the problem? Bob Fenner>
Powering Through A Popeye Infection
Scott: At your suggestion have treated the B& W Heniochus with Furacyn
after a water change and the Maracyn full treatment. have also been through two
or three cycles of the Furacyn treatment with intermittent water changes. Fish
is eating well and eyes have diminished a little but are still noticeably
Popeye. This treatment has now lasted some three to five weeks.
Should I continue to treat again with another course of Furacyn or what as there
has been some improvement? Other wise what do you suggest for this bilateral
Popeye. Thanks for your help, Stephen Pace
<Well, Steven, I think that the fish needs a "break" from this
round of treatment...I'd recommend impeccable water quality as an alternative
"therapy" for two weeks or so. If the condition still manifests itself
after that period of time, I'd consider another round of Maracyn, Hopefully, it
won't be necessary...Keep the water quality up, and stay on top of things! Good
luck! Regards, Scott F>
The Eyes Have It! (Diagnosing and Treating Popeye)
Hi, I've noticed today that my Damsel fish has quite a 'pop-eye'.
I wonder if it will spread onto other fish I have in the tank...
Should I try to medicate? With what? Are there any antibiotics that would be ok
to use with live rock (no corals) and crabs?
Thank you Luke
<Well, Luke- there are really no antibiotics (or other medications, for that
matter) that I'd recommend for use in the display tank. You have to assess
accurately what you're dealing with here. If it's just one eye that is inflamed-
you're probably looking at an injury or other trauma to the eye, and you can
remove the fish to a separate aquarium and administer Epsom salt to the water to
help reduce the swelling (an old standby). If your fish has both eyes showing
this condition, you will need to use medication, such as Maracyn, to treat the
condition (always in a separate tank). Keep water quality as high as possible,
and monitor the fish carefully. You can cure either condition with relative
ease, provided you take quick, proper action. Good luck! Scott F>
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