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FAQs on
Exophthalmia/Pop-Eye, Case Histories
Related Articles: Exophthalmia/Pop-eye,
Environmental Disease,
Related FAQs: Pop-Eye
1, Pop-Eye
2, & FAQs on Popeye: Causes/Etiology:
Traumas/Mechanical Injuries,
Parasitic Involvements Suspected & Real,
Infectious Disease,
Cures, &
Environmental
Disease, Aggressive Behavior, Sources
of Bubbles,
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Air Bubble in Eye
6/22/08
Hey guys,
<Joe>
Thanks in advance for the help (as always). I have a dilemma as I was
about to move a group of random damsels from my smaller 75g tank to my
display 240g tank when I noticed my Deep Water Canary Damsel had a
strange air bubble above one of his eyes. Other than that he is very
healthy, active, and acting otherwise normal.
<I see this>
I have looked up Pop Eye and Gas Disease and this does not look like
either of these. I'm concerned about moving him into my mine tank
because I'm not sure what it is or if it is contagious. I'm guessing
it's not, but really don't want to risk it. Attached is a picture, best
I could get of a speedy damsel.
Any ideas what it could be or how to treat?
<Is gas... associated with the blood vessels of the eye... if this fish
were newly collected, I'd guess the gas was from an embolism from having
been too rushedly brought to the surface... There are other
etiologies... blockage, damage... cures... are simply patience and good
general care/maintenance really.>
Joe
<Bob Fenner> |
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Re: Air Bubble in Eye
6/23/08
Thanks Bob! So nothing contagious or anything that would prevent me from
putting him in general population? Anything to worry about?
<Mmm, no. This is correct. BobF> |
Re: Premnas
biaculeatus, The Maroon Clownfish, hlth., cloudy eyes
4/13/08
Hi Guys:
<Hi Robert, Mike I, here>
I finally got my 55 gallon fish only tank's nitrates down from well over
100ppm to between 20-25 through less feeding and more meticulous overall
care of the aquarium.
<Good stuff!>
There are only four fish: A Dwarf Lion, a Yellow Tang, A spotted
Cardinal and a Common Clown. A few days ago, I noticed a cloudy,
translucent film over half of one of the Tang's eyes. Today, it looks
like the Lion is starting to show a trace.
<OK>
I'm always hesitant to put meds in the water fearing destruction of the
bio filter and since it looks like it's spreading in the tank, isolation
doesn't seem to be a viable option. I am absolutely "religious" about
maintaining my tanks and can't for the life of me understand how
anything got into the water as I haven't added any new specimens. My
source water is pristine RO/DI. As always, your help is very much
appreciated.
Regards,
Robert
<Well, Robert, a lot of "cloudy eye" can come from physical
injury/incidents, but if more than one fish is coming down with the same
symptoms, then it's likely the cause lies elsewhere. One would first
look at water quality, and since your nitrates have been high, it could
be the result of prolonged exposure to less than ideal water quality.
Having brought it down you may see the cloudiness gradually disappear
providing you keep up with your attempts to keep the water quality
right. If not, then next guess would be some sort of bacterial
infection, which will need treatment. Treatment outside of the tank
would be the preferred option. Search the indices here for "cloudy eyes"
to find recommendations on a course of treatment. Good luck. Mike I>
Re: Tang Eye Damage 4/13/08
Thanks very much Mike.
<Most welcome>
It seems that it is only the Tang that has one cloudy eye so my
assumption at this point is injury. He is always hanging WAY to close to
the Lion. Maybe that's what happened.
<Very possible, I'd expect to see some improvement over the week if it's
physical injury, and if not look further. The best of luck.. Mike I>
Sun, 2 Mar 2008 11:43:40 -0600
Hey Bob:
<Not Bob today but Mike I with you here>
My Maroon is over five years old now and has lived (alone) in two
different nano reefs. The first at only 6 gallons and for the last
several years in my JBL 12 gallon Nano Cube. This has got to be the
healthiest and happiest (except for my Dwarf Zebra Lion in my FO 55
gallon tank) of all of the marine species I've tried.
<OK>
Two weeks ago, I had the nano crash due to a stuck heater which cost me
most of my coral and nearly killed the clown.
<Ouch!>
She loved to nestle in a large Trumpet cluster and also on the
Mushrooms.
Since those are now gone, she now just lies in the sand bed (can't be
too good?) when not swimming. What is your best recommendation for a
symbiotic anemone for this fish?
<In a nano that size, none I'm afraid>
The nano is slowly coming back and just suffered an quick ammonia spike
but the nitro cycle has safely resumed. The beautiful purple coralline
encrusting the back of the tank didn't survive and is now just white or
VERY light pink. Should I have scraped this off before starting over. I
don't want to mess with it now though. Is it safe or will it regenerate?
<Although possibly un-aesthetic, I wouldn't worry about it. If some
remain healthy they will likely come back>
At any rate, I just wanted to let you know that I had indeed kept this
species in a small environment successfully.
Regards, Bob Sabbia
<Thanks, Bob. I don't know if you have conversed with the Crew/Bob prior
to this email, as previous correspondence was not attached. Regarding
the small environment, in the wild this type of clown in particular will
generally not leave it's host anemone much and may be more suited to a
smaller confine.
Nonetheless, if asked outright, I would probably advise a larger tank
generally. Who would choose to live in a motor home if they could have a
castle? Heee. Certainly, the tank is too small for any of the hosting
anemones. As it happens, how big is your clown? Adult females can reach
around 5 inches, and yours looks a little smaller in your picture... All
the best, Mike I> |
Re: Pop Eye remains... to
some degree. 12/27/07
Merry Christmas to all!!! (er, and Happy holidays, Hanukah, Kwanzaa,
whatever I missed.).
<And to you and yours>
Just thought I'd ask some advise
<Advice>
on a pop-eye follow up. It's been about a month now and my Passer Angel still
has pop-eye. sort of.
<These conditions/injuries can persist... for months... some never resolve>
The ailment itself is gone, the eye is clear and he has vision, eats well, etc.
I have watched as the air trapped behind the eye has migrated upwards, so that
at the top of the eyeball it looks as though there's a large air pocket. I think
that this is all that remains of the problem, if this air is released the eye
would most likely return to normal. Is this something that will happen over
time?
<Maybe>
It appears that it gets closer and closer to the surface, as if the eye membrane
is getting thinner.
<Good description>
All tank mates are happy and joyous, even the angel is aside from his extremely
large eyeball.
All water parameters are good (blanket statement, but after writing numerous
times, you can bet that all are covered.
Thomas Roach
<Just time going by Tom, and your good care... BobF>
Pop Eye...
Neale's go... apparently double-posted... 12/4/07
Hi, thought I might get your opinion on some treatment options. I
wrote and email about a month ago about a damsel getting Popeye and it
going away in a couple of days. No other fish had been affected.
<Good.>
I left for vacation about 10 days ago, and right before, my passer Angel
developed Popeye. I read in Bob's book about it, and there wasn't too
much referenced for that ailment. Reading in 'Marine Aquariums for
Dummies' didn't shed too much light on it, either. Most of the FAQ
mentions Epsom salt, which I have not used yet, but is an option.
<The problem with Popeye is that it's a symptom. Like a fever or a skin
rash. It can be caused by a variety of things, so no single cure is
guaranteed to work, any more than a fever caused by Malaria will be
cured by a treatment designed for fever caused by the Flu. The Epsom
salt treatment helps by reducing the swelling, but beyond that, it can't
fix the underlying problem. Since Popeye is generally associated with
environmental issues or mechanical damage, the accent tends to be placed
on prevention rather than cure. Do see here --
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
-- for more.>
The Passer angelfish is the only fish that has it. It affects one eye.
The other tank mates are a lunare wrasse, a yellow tang, and two
damsels. All other fish are in excellent health. Before leaving I did a
25% water change, cleaning all pads in the canister filter, put fresh
carbon in another, etc. The salinity is at 1.023, 0 ppm of ammonia,
nitrites, and <10 nitrates. My protein skimmer produces regular waste,
but not in huge quantities.
<Ok.>
I thought about putting this fish in a hospital tank, but have not for
two reasons. One is that I don't think that a 6 inch Passer would do
well in a 20 gallon tank for any period of time, and second I am
terrified of damaging the eye further when netting him.
<Certainly your concern about putting a big fish in a small tank is well
founded. As for moving a fish with Popeye, I'd recommend using small
buckets (of the sort used for selling ice cream, for example) rather
than a net.>
I am thinking of using Mardel's Tri-Sulfa, which says that it will NOT
damage the biological filter.
<And neither will it do much for the Popeye.>
I am currently adding something called Gel-Tek with Tetracycline to his
food, which is mysis shrimp, marine cuisine, and angel formula 1 and 2.
Do you think these methods will be effective? The angel, other than the
huge expanded eye, is in good health and color, and is eating well.
<The thing here is that bacterial infections typically (if not always)
inflame both eyes; mechanical damage only inflames the one. So my guess
here is your fish was damaged somehow, perhaps by clumsy handling but
alternatively by running into a rock or something. All you can really do
is use the Epsom salt treatment to reduce the swelling, and let the fish
heal naturally. Provided water conditions are perfect and you give a
healthful diet, this should happen, albeit very, very slowly.>
Thanks for your thoughts, and I hope you all had a wonderful and safe
Thanksgiving.
<Ah well, I'm British, so all we see in Thanksgiving is the happy day
when we got rid of some stubborn, sometimes violent religious fanatics
who wanted to put the laws of their scriptures ahead of the law of the
land. Plus ca change, plus C'est le meme chose!
Thomas
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Pop Eye, SW /RMF 12/5/07
Hi, thought I might get your opinion on some treatment options. I wrote
and email about a month ago about a damsel getting Popeye and it going
away in a couple of days. No other fish had been affected.
<Okay>
I left for vacation about 10 days ago, and right before, my passer Angel
developed Popeye. I read in Bob's book about it, and there wasn't too
much referenced for that ailment. Reading in 'Marine Aquariums for
Dummies' didn't shed too much light on it, either. Most of the FAQ
mentions Epsom salt, which I have not used yet, but is an option.
<Yes... exophthalmia is a condition with a few standard etiologies, with
some variations>
The Passer angelfish is the only fish that has it. It affects one eye.
The other tank mates are a lunare wrasse, a yellow tang, and two
damsels. All other fish are in excellent health. Before leaving I did a
25% water change, cleaning all pads in the canister filter, put fresh
carbon in another, etc. The salinity is at 1.023, 0 ppm of ammonia,
nitrites, and <10 nitrates. My protein skimmer produces regular waste,
but not in huge quantities.
I thought about putting this fish in a hospital tank, but have not for
two reasons. One is that I don't think that a 6 inch Passer would do
well in a 20 gallon tank for any period of time, and second I am
terrified of damaging the eye further when netting him.
<I agree with you on both>
I am thinking of using Mardel's Tri-Sulfa, which says that it will NOT
damage the biological filter. I am currently adding something called
Gel-Tek with Tetracycline to his food, which is mysis shrimp, marine
cuisine, and angel formula 1 and 2. Do you think these methods will be
effective?
<No... but won't do much harm either... and just time going by may
effect a cure here>
The angel, other than the huge expanded eye, is in good health and
color, and is eating well.
Thanks for your thoughts, and I hope you all had a wonderful and safe
Thanksgiving.
Thomas Roach
<Unilateral in both cases... I am thinking out loud here... that these
may be incidences of mechanical injury alone, or primarily. Do you have
much outside light on where the tank is during the night? Leaving some
on may help your fishes to find their way about, avoid swimming into
objects. Bob Fenner>
Re: Pop Eye 12/7/07
Thanks again Bob (And Neale, too!) for the Popeye info. I did add
the Tri-Sulfa prior to getting the response, the crap turned my entire
tank a dark green and I'm now filtering it out with carbon... it is
slowly returning to normal. Ugh.
<You should know better Tom... to investigate before pouring such into
your system>
The Passer angel seems to be improving... the eye seems bigger,
actually, but the cloudiness is gone and it seems to have some improved
vision. When it was cloudy I had to drop food on the good side for it to
see it, now it seems to be able to see and eat its food from both sides.
<Good>
I can see a large air pocket in the eye, above the pupil, like it's
trying to get to the eye surface for release. One thing I notices was a
cut above the eye, that you can now see a bit since the cloudiness has
cleared up. I'm thinking the spine of the yellow tang might have caused
this.
<Possibly>
I've noticed that they posture on occasion with each other, but
generally get along well.
So we will stay the course with time and water quality. Every thing else
in the tank is doing very well. If you can think of anything else,
please say so, but I think we are seeing some improvements.
Thomas Roach
<Good news. Thank you for the update. BobF>
Re: Pop Eye 12/7/07
You're right. I investigated the effects the medication would have
on the biological system, and it's supposed treatment effects, but not
the dyeing effect. Another lesson learned. You guys take care!
Thomas Roach
<Will do, am doing. RMF> |
Queen angel gone blind?
Reading, using WWM 11/21/07
Bob - I'm a first time user and need help with my 1 year old Queen. Our salt
got out of whack last month so we did a water change and treated the tank
w/copper and Melafix.
<... not in your main tank, please tell me>
Our niger trigger had ich and our queen angel started hiding in the reef,
although we did not see any ich on her. After we got the water stabilized (salt
is at 1.012),
<... also not a fan of hyposalinity...>
the queen never went back to normal. It's been about 2 weeks. She is not eating
well and although seems hungry, doesn't seem to "see" the food. She will venture
out of the reef and act like she is looking for food in the sand, but a Mysis
shrimp or piece of algae will float right by her and she won't eat it. I read a
posting about another queen doing a "shimmy", and she has what looks like a
twitch. Her eyes are clear, but she just acts like she can't see. She used to be
the boss of the tank and now she is very passive and hides. Can you possibly
know why? Thanks!
Kim Smith
<... the exposure to the copper... possibly the leaf extract, the lowered spg...
might all by themselves or in combination have brought about this condition.
Only time can/will tell whether it will be reversed. PLEASE, don't write w/o
having looked (the search tool in the process of contacting us... the indices)
re these materia medica... and hypo... You've over-stressed this fish, these
fishes... There are ameliorative actions you might try to restore their health.
Again, all posted on WWM. Bob Fenner>
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Eye Trauma-->bubble –
11/20/07
Hello again,
<Hi there>
I have a Harlequin Tusk that was bullied about a month and half ago by a
Picasso Trigger which has since been returned to the store. The last
straw was the removal of what seemed to be the cornea of the right eye
of the tusk.
<Hopefully not too much...>
The eye has since healed, but he/she cannot see out of it, and there
seems to be what looks like a large gas bubble under the newly formed
membranous layer.
<The eyes of vertebrate animals are highly vascularized>
I have inquired to several different people. One stated that the eye is
a lost cause and will eventually be a total loss and become a caved in
hole.
<Mmm, not necessarily, no>
I saw a brief mention by Bob that the eye could take weeks (already
passed) to months (approaching two) and that the bubble would self
absorb.
<Ditto>
I am tempted to perform some sort of sterile perforation of the membrane
to see if that relieves the pressure which might help it in recovery.
<I would not do this>
The tusk eats well, does not seem to be in any pain, and the only time
you can see a problem is when it is swimming and gets startled by
another fish it didn't see coming. My questions to you are:
1. Should I leave well enough alone and see what self healing the fish
can do or should I "assist" in the process and perform the perforation?
<The former>
2. Is there anything else you think can/should be done to aid in the
healing process?
<Mmm, not really>
3. Does the cornea actually regenerate or is this just some sort of
membrane that reformed over the wound?
<The cornea itself, as in humans, does "rapidly" (relatively
histologically) regenerate... the damage inside may not or may take very
long to resolve>
I have included some pictures so you can compare the good eye to the bad
and one profile where you can see how far the eye is sticking out. The
pictures are not the best, but it took me almost an hour to get these.
He/she will just not stay still long enough. Thank you for your help.
Sincerely,
Scott
<Only time can/will tell here. I urge patience. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
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Regal Angel with pop eye 10/16/07
Hi Crew,
<Kan>
Good Evening
<And to you>
My regal angel, still under Cupramine QT developed pop eye on one side. It is
feeding OK, although not as vigorous as before he got the pop eye.
<To be expected...>
After trawling your website, I discovered that Epsom salt will help to alleviate
the pop eye. Will it have any adverse effect if I add Epsom salt to the water
that has already been dosed with Cupramine ?
<Mmm... not much, no>
I already did a 25% water change yesterday but the pop eye did not improve. I am
planning another 25% water change tomorrow and hope the situation will improve.
The angel is about 7 inches and takes about 3 to 4 New Life Spectrum 3mm pellets
together with 2 to 3 very small pieces of Ocean Nutrition frozen angel formula
daily. Is this enough to keep him going ?
<Hopefully so>
Thanks for reading my longish mail
Regards,
Kan TY
<I would move this Pygoplites back to larger, more stable quarters as soon as
expedient... The Popeye will cure itself in time. Bob Fenner>
Re: Regal Angel with pop eye
11/07/07
Dear Bob
Thanks for your reply below.
The pop eye has since recovered.
<Ah, good>
Just one week ago, he was infested with gill flukes and stopped feeding
for a few days, a Prazi based medication was administered and I am happy
to say that he started eating again.
<Good>
Although he feeds well now on a diet of NLS 3mm pellets, Ocean Nutrition
Angel frozen formula, Nori sheets and Hikari Marine "A" pellets, he does
not seem to be gaining weight.
The area behind the eyes is by no means "pinched" but it is not as
convex when compared to another 3" regal whom I have in the display
tank.
Other than not gaining weight, he is in good shape and inquisitive. Is
there something to worry about or am I just being paranoid?
Thanks
<Best to act on being concerned... I would offer more food, more
often... Do you use "mud" in your filtration... have a sump/refugium?
This might well help here. Bob Fenner> |
Chalk Bass problems
Hi there, my name is Rachael and I was hoping you could help me with
something. I have a 50 gallon marine tank, it's 6 months old and has set up
nicely. The water quality is good and we just recently purchased VHOs so we
could have some neat corals and an anemone. My question for you though has to
do with my Chalk Bass. << Keep him, great fish to have. >> He was the first
fish that we purchased, we've had him for about 5 months. Within the first
three or four days that he was in our tank, one of his eyes puffed out and was
like that for about a week. It went back to normal and within two days it was
all puffed out again, it looked as though there were air bubbles under his
scales, it was really big! But after about a week and a half, it went back to
normal. Then about a week later, it puffed out again, bigger than either of the
two times before, and it looked as though it were going to pop; well it didn't
then but it took about three weeks for it to go back to normal. While my
husband and I were going through this ordeal with our fish, we couldn't find any
sort of disease that matched the symptoms of our fish, so we sort of wrote it
off as an injury. We have about 20 pounds of live rock in our tank and he likes
to swim really fast in and out of the rocks, so it seemed plausible. About a
week ago, his eye was all puffed out again, worse than ever, and two days ago,
the top of it popped, so it was still kind of puffy at the bottom. The top
'skin' was hanging over his eye impairing his vision, and then yesterday, the
rest of it popped. I can't tell if he still has his eye or not because the
floppy skin surrounding it is blocking my view of it. I was wondering if you
knew if his eye might grow back or if he will possible be blind in one eye? <<
He is most likely blind in that eye. It is unfortunate, I would have taken him
out of the tank, and into a hospital tank the first time it happened. In fact,
I would still do it now, and treat him with some antibiotics from a LFS. >> Do
you know of anything that could have caused the puffiness, besides injury? Is
there anything I can do - take him to a fish doctor or something?
Thanks for your time, I look forward to your reply. << That is tough, good luck
with him. >>
Rachael Evans
<< Blundell >>
Popeye- PT 2!
Just thought I would follow up. The eye is already looking better barely
swollen at all and he is out and swimming all over the tank and eating good, so
I guess all is good. Will treat him though, if I can catch him! lol
<Well, the fact that he is active and moving is great to hear!>
I noticed the Purple, now that he has rocks, is rubbing up against them. Do
tangs just normally do this or is this a bad sign?
<Well, "rubbing" and scratching is not something that is normal in a healthy
fish, for the most part. An occasional "scratch" or two is nothing to be overly
concerned about, but consistent rubbing on tank decor is a sign of a potential
problem. Keep a very careful eye on this fish, just to be sure that everything
is okay>
No spots and was in qt for 3 weeks and I watched him at the fish store for two
weeks before purchasing him (them) and they have been disease free thus far. I
did have a bad case of ich that wiped out my tank, but I removed the two
remaining fish, put them in QT and let the tank go fallow for 6 weeks, lowered
the salinity to 1.015 and raised the temp to 86 for four of the fallow weeks and
treated the remaining fish in qt with copper. I did the same thing with the
salinity and temp. No signs of any ich, so just wondering if this is normal for
Tangs. Haven't seen any other fish do this.
<As above- do keep an eye on this. Of course, these guys do have a propensity to
get ich.>
Thanks and keep up the great work! Couldn't handle this hobby without yall! JB
<You're quite welcome, JB! Glad to be here for you! Good luck! Regards, Scott
F.>
- Moorish Idol Popeye -
Hey guys, I lost your reply about my Idol but thought I better give you an
update. I wrote to you on Jan 18 and stated that my Idol had severe Popeye in
both eyes. He hadn't eaten in about 2 weeks at the time. Just this week he
started eating again and is eating vigorously. One eye is still terrible and he
appears to be blind in it. <Bummer.> The other eye is pretty good now but he
can't seem to pinpoint his food very well. He tries hard though and eventually
gets it. Maracyn didn't seem to work and neither did Furan-2. <The causes of
Popeye aren't always bacterial... and in those cases Maracyn and Furan compounds
won't do anything to help.> Prayer was the best option.
PS: you said that they are best viewed in the wild--I agree. My wife and I
both have dove the Kohala and Kona Coasts of Hawai'i and they are
magnificent. Moorish Idol lovers, don't give up. <I'm sorry, but I just don't
agree... when 99% of these fish that are caught for use as pet fish, die...
something ain't right. Hope things work out for you and your Moorish Idol, but
having dived with them myself, I just can't encourage anyone to keep them.
Cheers, J -- >
Popeye, not the Sailor-man 8 Feb 2005
I have a coral beauty with pop eye. Having read up on this it seems to be an injury. He is eating well and behaving normally.
<That's good news. Usually very fixable>
I have read your FAQ's and just want to ask some specific questions. I do not have a
separate tank and would like to treat in my main tank. It's a 55gal. I do a 20% water change every 3 weeks and my water quality is good.
<Great!>
In my tank I have A bubble tip Anemone, several kinds of shrimp, flame scallop live rock, yellow tang,
cinn clown,
damsels, several varieties of star fish hermit crabs, feather dusters, snails, clams, will the
Epsom salt harm any of these???
<They shouldn't. What they might do is affect your magnesium levels with at the outside might effect your
pH. Shouldn't do any of that though.>
Also would I add the Epsom salt right to the tank or do I need to dissolve it first????
<I prefer to dissolve mine and add it to my sump if I'm putting it into the big tank.>
Once added will it effect my Specific gravity much??? & Should I compensate for this???
<Shouldn't affect it at all. Good luck, MacL>
Queen Angel with Popeye in both eyes
I have a Queen Angel about 4" in size, notice 2 weeks ago she got pop eye in
one eye and couldn't see out of that side because she was running into thing on that side. After a couple days it
didn't seem to get any better so we QT her in a 20 g tank, Have been treating with Maracyn Plus for that past 10
days with no results, last night I gave her a fresh water dip and the swelling seem to
dissipate.
But return this morning, she is breathing very heavy and is pale to the color, did a water quality test and all seems
normal. I'm getting nervous because she hasn't eaten in a couple of days, I Held some seaweed right in front of her and she
wouldn't touch it. Any ideas, I would hate to loose my precious Queen.
Stephen Cox
Crystal Marine
<Whatever the cause/s, the best course of action here is to reduce the specific gravity of your water and add Epsom salt... these matters are covered on WWM re exophthalmia. Bob Fenner>
Help with Wimple, pop-eye/exophthalmia
Hi Crew,
<Eric>
Thanks for you help in the past I've had great advice from you. My
setup is a Juwel Trigon 350 with Live Rock, Polyps and the following tank
mates:
Atlantic Anemone
Bubble Anemone
Bamboo Crab
Hermit Crabs (Various)
Turbo Snails
2 x Cleaner Shrimp
Golden Cleaner Wrasse
<Am wondering what species this is>
2 x Tank bred Clowns
Regal Tang
Yellow Tang
Wimple Fish
The problem I'm having is with my Wimple, which I just put into my tank a
week ago from my quarantine tank along with my regal tang. They both had
white spot and were cured after a long stay in the quarantine tank. After
two days I spotted a couple of white spots on the Wimple and decided to
give it a fresh water dip, which helped and hasn't had a spot since. I've
noticed now that his eye has swollen up and not sure what it is.
<One sided? Likely resultant from a physical trauma... a bump, net whack...>
I've
tried to take a picture of both eyes, which I've uploaded to
http://www.jooste.f2s.com/Gill.html
<Good pix... left eye exophthalmia>
I've tested the water and found everything to be fine other than my
Nitrates at 20ppm, which I'm battling to get down, and it looks like a
hint of Nitrite (testing with Salifert, which results in a very light
pink). I've been dosing the tank with Amquel+, to try and get the Nitrates
down, and I also use Kent ZOE, Kent Iodine, and sometimes the Kent
ZooPlex.
If you could please help me find out what is wrong with my Wimple and how
can help him get his eye back to normal.
Thank you in Advance
Eric
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
and the linked files at top. Bob Fenner>
Eye Popped Out (5/13/05)
Hello Crew,<Steve Allen with you tonight.>
This is an update/question about my yellow tang with pop eye. Well I think the
pop eye is cured because the eye fell out. <In the same way that amputation
cures gangrene I guess.> He now has no eye in the socket. He seems to be doing
fine, eating acting normally, do you think he can do well with one eye? <Yes, a
one-eyed fish can survive and thrive. Zero eyes is harder. Just like people with
only one kidney are strongly advised to not risk it by playing football and
such, I would recommend you avoid aggressive tankmates that could go after the
other one.> I took him out of quarantine after 14 days and he adjusted to the
main tank fine? Anything else I could do for him? <Just take good care of him.>
Thank you, Concerned Yellow Tank Dad <Sounds like he's on the mend and should be
OK.>
Maroon Clown Popeye and odd behavior 7/14/05
Hello, I have two maroon clowns, one is yellow striped the other is just a
regular white striped. I have them both in a ten gallon tank with live sand and
about 8 lbs of live rock, along with a few various inverts. The salinity of my
tank is about 1.022 and the water is changed regularly. The two clowns have been
getting alone quite well, they follow each other everywhere. They also are
hosting a clay pot which I placed in the aquarium.
<All sounds good, but inverts generally do better at natural salinity levels
(~1.025). Also, 10 gallons is quite small for a single maroon clown, let alone
a pair.>
The problem is that while the other clown appears to be fine, the yellow striped
maroon seems to be disoriented. When and if it tries to swim, it speeds around
in circles all over the tank. Most of the time however it lies on the bottom
either upside-down or on its side not doing anything. It doesn't seem to be
gasping for air and I can't see any visible injuries on it. I have noticed that
both its eyes are severely bulged. Is there anything I can do? Any help you can
provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Alex
<Popeye is commonly caused by physical injury. A bump or a scrape can inflame
the orbit causing it to bulge. However, when injury is the cause, it is usually
isolated to one eye. When Popeye occurs in both eyes, it is usually an
infection. I would remove the sick fish to a hospital tank. Unfortunately, the
fish is probably doomed. I generally don't recommend the use of antibiotics,
but in this case a broad spectrum antibiotic may be indicated. Be sure to put a
small amount of household bleach into any antibiotic treated water before
pouring it down the drain. This will prevent any antibiotic resistant bacteria
from being released into the environment. Best Regards. AdamC.>
Please Help me clarify this... Popeye, not the Sailor-Man 7/6/05
Hello! It's me again. First off, let me say thank you for all your help
thus far. I know you said last time not to write to you in HTML, and I've
tried my best to turn off those settings on my email (I'm a bit computer
stupid) so I hope I've managed that.
<I just copy and paste the view version...>
Anyway, recently I've noticed my green wolf eel has a swollen eye on her
left side. it's slightly blue in color. I'm not quite sure if it's
pop-eye.
<Mmm, this is just a descriptive term... says little to nothing re root
cause/s... like you "having a bump">
I'm almost sure it's not, but I just wanted to clarify. I say
that I'm almost sure because she's recently taken to swimming through this
hole in one of the rocks in the tank, and the hole is only just larger than
she is, so I believe she may have bumped her eye against the rock.
<Quite likely>
however, she's completely lost her appetite and she hasn't eaten anything
in about four days, which is strange for her because she normally eat one
large shrimp or a few Rosies a day.
<Do go w/o food at times>
so I'm not one-hundred percent sure if her swollen eye is just injury
related. and if it is, will Epsom salt affect my chocolate chip starfish,
<Should be fine with the Epsom>
because I haven't got a hospital tank for treatments. And if she does have
Pop-eye, would it be safe for me to have my eel in a bucket with some sort
of filtration system for treatment?
<Better to not remove the animal>
by the way, water qualities are rather good. nitrates was up a bit, but
I've done a 30% water change and added a bit of Amquel, so that shouldn't be
a problem.
thanks again!
~Jules
<Bob Fenner>
Popeye and snails 4/8/06
I have been looking over several of your FAQ's about Popeye. I am not
sure if this is happening to my six line wrasse, so I am asking your
opinion. Last night I noticed the six line's eye, only one eye, was
protruding, no cloudiness. None of the other 9 fish show any signs of
problems. I am sure I will not be able to catch this six line in my 90
gallon reef tank with out causing major issues and disassembling my reef
tank. The six line is acting normally and eating great, what should I do?
<Likely nothing>
I think I should leave him alone, since it will be a major undertaking to
capture him. My main concern Is there any chance it could spread?
<Not much... Probably just the one fish bumped into something...>
Also I read that your against populating a reef tank with crabs, blue and
red legs. Will snails be sufficient? What would be the best type to use in
lieu of crabs?
<See WWM re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/snailselfaqs.htm>
Thanks for your great advice with several of my questions and issues. It has
helped me stay in the hobby. Once again thank you, Dallas
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Popeye on a YTBT, Epsom, duration 3/31/06
Hi! My name is Lisa, I have a Blue Tang with Popeye. I understand that you
can treat this with Epsom Salt. How much would you put in your tank and would
you have to move the charcoal from you filters?
<Can leave the charcoal in place>
How many times would you put Epsom Salt in your tank? How long does this take
to treat?
<A level tsp. per five gallons of system water, leave as long as the
exophthalmia is present, replace with water changes. Bob Fenner>
Popeye on Coral Beauty Angel 11/15/05
Greetings!
<Salutations>
Great Site!!!!
<Thank you>
Yesterday morning, I noticed my Coral Beauty Angel had a case of Popeye (in just one eye). As the day progressed, it became larger. Thanks to your site, I found that it must be an injury and I can treat with Epsom Salt, which I did yesterday evening @ 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons. This morning the eye looks worse yet. It's eye is very large and now because he's been flicking his eye off of the live rock, he's damaging it.
<Mmmm...>
Is the flicking because the Popeye is as irritating as it looks, or is there some other problem that I'm not aware of.
<Hard to tell... but magnesium sulfate does take a while (a few days generally) to effect positive, visible change>
Is there anything else I can do besides wait and pray for the best? Any info would be greatly appreciated
Brandy Cook
<If the system is otherwise stable, optimized, I would just leave the fish in it, along with the Epsom, and hope. Bob Fenner>
13 year old Foxface with Popeye 7/18/06
Hello,
I have a Foxface that I have had for 13 years. He was an adult when I got
him so he might be 15 plus years old. He has a case of Popeye in both eyes.
<Mmm... environmental... perhaps bacterial... even might be nutritional...>
Water conditions are good, only 2 other med size fish in my 75g tank and
they are fine.
<What are these species? Worthwhile clues>
I am on my third round of Maracyn. The first two times I started treatment he
would recover just enough for a few days to be able to eat, then he would lapse
back and stop eating.
Could this just be old age and he losing his ability to fight off infections?
<Yes, definitely a possible factor>
He does not seem to be responding to this last round of Maracyn (I know 3
rounds might not be good, but I did not know what else to do.) I can tell he is
losing weight and
I am afraid I might have to euthanize him if I think he is going to starve to
death. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Michael Hollman
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Fish with Popeye not getting better 6/4/06
Hello WetWebMedia Crew,
<Tammy>
I am in need of help for my clownfish who suddenly had a Popeye one day. I
thought it may have been caused by some trauma to his eye. I put him in a 40
gallon quarantine tank and put in approximately 1 teaspoon of Epson
<Epsom, magnesium sulfate, not the printer co.>
salt per gallon. Two days later his eye was growing increasing bigger. On the
third day it appeared as if his eye was getting bigger by the hour. This
concerned me so I tried various things, turned off air pump (heard excessive
aerated water could cause Popeye), did a 25% water change, tested water (appears
normal). This did not improve his eye and it was only getting bigger. I went to
the fish store and they recommended antibiotics so I have been administering
antibiotics for two days now (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. E.M. Tablets) 800
mg of erythromycin (200mg for every 10 gallons).
<Better treated not in your main system...>
The eye does not appear to be improving....it is still getting bigger. The
fish is eating somewhat normally (whatever it can catch) and swimming o.k. for
not being able to
see that well.
Is there something I am missing or should/shouldn't be doing? I am getting
worried that the fish will die.
Any advice/help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tammy
<It may be that the physical trauma has closed off a good deal of the vascular
(venous) blood mechanism draining this eye. Even possible that there is now a
bacterial/infectious component. I would add lowering your specific gravity here
(a few thousandths) to relieve the pressure, and maintain what you are doing
otherwise. Bob Fenner>
Exophthalmia, Red Bulging Eye - 05/15/2006
Hi Crew:
<Hi, Eric.>
This is one as stated. The fish is eating and breathing normally. I have treated
pop-eyes before with ease, but this time the Vlamingi tang have his right eye
first swollen, than turned red.
<This is more likely to be from damage/injury than an infection, since it's only
one eye.>
The swelling is somewhat decrease since I increase the salinity back to tank
condition 1.024 (there were infected with ich and was treated with hypocaust. In
50 gallon QT). The redness and the slight swelling is still a problem for the
fish, and I have been FW dipping it daily.
<Unless you absolutely must dip for some reason, I would stop dipping. I would
also add Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to the tank at a rate of one to two
tablespoons per ten gallons of aquarium water. This will help to decrease the
swelling.>
Last week I saw a tiny red nodule bulges out from the reddened eye membrane, and
today it is still present. What can I do to lessen its pain or cure the
fish??. Right now the eye is still swollen and redness is still present, with
one small nodule on its popped eye. can you please suggest me your diagnostic
and treatment plan?
<Again, this is probably from an injury, and I would recommend to treat only
with perfect water quality and Epsom salt for now.>
Thank you in advance, Eric.
<All the best to you, -Sabrina>
Poor Picasso Trigger with Popeye - 4/7/07
I have had a Picasso trigger for almost the last year and he has been a
great little guy. His only tankmate is a clown trigger (who is rapidly growing)
<Yikes... not compatible>
that was purchased around the same time. Several months ago I moved them from a
46 gallon into the current 75 gallon. I have about 45 lbs of live rock and use a
Fluval 404 filter with a Coralife 125 gallon super skimmer. I do weekly water
changes of about 10 gallons and continually have nitrates around 15ppm. Around
the time that I moved them the Picasso began to have bulgy eyes. Not just one
but both so I looked up what I could find figured that it might just be poor
water quality. I was doing very large weekly water changes of about 20 gallons
which seemed to help. The Popeye was sporadic, some days it was there and would
stay for a several and then he would be just fine for week only to have it
appear again. He eats and swims just fine now. The Clown trigger has never shown
any signs of Popeye, so I also don't think that it could be a water quality
issue anymore. Occasionally the Picasso's colors lighten up substantially but he
is usually quite dark in color and very colorful. I feed them a large assortment
of foods including Clams, shrimp, squid, krill, mysis, brine, mussels, and
trigger formula. I believe their diet to be fine and am glad that the Picasso
eats normally. Last week I moved the Picasso into a ten gallon quarantine tank
and decided to treat him with Maracyn as I believed this to be the best course
of action to take. It began to look as though it was working the next day and
appeared so until the last day of treatment. I woke up and his eyes were just as
bulgy as before. I did further reading and decided that maybe I should be
treating with Maracyn-2 as I had read that rarely do fish have gram positive
bacterial infections which is what the Maracyn is supposed to treat. I have
begun treating with Maracyn-2 and have noticed no results. I am almost at a loss
for what to do now as this is my favorite fish and is a joy to watch everyday.
Thank you for all your help. Sincerely, John C.
<Mmm... well, the etiologies of such bulging can be complex... there might be an
internal parasite at play here... As you relate that the Clown is not affected,
I too discount the possibility of fine air-bubbles, some other physical or
chemical cause here... I do encourage you to try switching (almost exclusively)
to Spectrum fish food... for three reasons... One, it is nutritionally
complete... two, the problem may be related to some part of the food you're
currently offering, and lastly, as am hopeful this may reduce some part, extend
the time till the Clown becomes overtly aggressive/territorial toward the
Picasso. Bob Fenner>
Re: Royal Dottyback develops Popeye in QT 5/22/07
Thanks for the prompt reply!
<Welcome Michael>
One thing I didn't add is that the Ich seems to be gone.
<Mmm, please excuse my cynical outlook here... Almost always, unless a full
course of treatment is exercised, these protozoans are just sub-symptomatic...>
Even though I wasn't medicating, I was doing daily 10% water changes (first
thing in the morning...yuk...coffee is better)
<Heeee!>
and this seemed to be working very well. The first few days I was siphoning out
maybe 40-50 little 'salt' granules from that bare-bottomed tank.
<Mmm, good approach... can work>
Then every day it seemed like there was less and less of these granules and the
tangs' skin was clearing up nicely. So much so that they seemed perfectly free
of Ich. None of the other fish seemed to be affected by Ich even though I put
them all in the hospital tank. I also had the UV sterilizer running in there.
I only started using Lifeguard when it seemed that maybe it wasn't Ich affecting
the fish anymore (they were scratching but no white spots).
UV sterilizer came out. After treatment started dropping temp a tad each
day...from 85 to 76; same as display tank.
<Well... with the increased temperature... maybe so...>
I'm really hesitant to medicate more because I had some bad experiences;
<You are wise here>
seems the LFS is perfectly happy selling me all these different lotions &
potions that just keep me coming back for more (meds...fish...).
<Ah yes... Too typical>
The 'natural' approach of raising temp & 10% daily water changes appealed to me
(and still does).
<Me too... am in process of "curing" some goldfish (yes...) that came to me
infested with ich, likely flukes... using just elevated temp. and some salt...>
Since the Ich seems to be 'gone'; I WAS contemplating a return to the display
tank soon but the Popeye (both eyes); even though it's only one fish out of 5;
is making me postpone that. I've now put the UV sterilizer in there; have
re-started daily water changes...suppose I will raise the temp back up slowly.
<Mmm, yes... and I do encourage you to add a bit of Epsom Salt (see WWM re), and
possibly augment the food... have you tried Spectrum fish foods? They have one,
Thera...>
One thing I put in the hospital tank was a little reptile cave/cove...sort of a
rock sliced in half with a little entry door. I put it in to give the Dottyback
a hiding spot. The fish really likes it and hides in there almost all the
time...is it possible that poor water conditions could occur in an enclosed
space like that and cause Popeye?
<Mmm, unlikely, but possibly an influence>
You say I need to define a treatment plan but at this point I'm not even really
sure what I'm dealing with. My LFS is saying to treat with Greenex; or if the
Ich seems gone then just put the fish back in the display tank.
<Mmm... well, I WOULD execute a dilute formalin bath/dip in-transit (do see WWM
re... needs to be aerated during...) while moving the fish/es back to the main
tank>
I think my LFS is out-to-lunch on this one; those little tangs cost me a fortune
in more ways than one! Can there still be Ich present even if there are no
white spots and there haven't been any for weeks?
<Unfortunately yes>
And if there was Ich in my HT wouldn't the tangs be the first ones to show it?
<Very often yes>
I'm getting really frustrated...I feel I'm 2/3 of the way to solving the problem
but this Popeye is really messing me up. I'm starting to get impatient with
seeing my lovely fish squished into a 10-gal tank with ghastly incandescent
lighting. I want them back in my 55 ASAP but I only want to do that when it's
clear that they are cured.
They say that caution is the distillation of experience;
<Can be... in fortuitous circumstances, choosings>
well you can bet that a QT is something I'll always own and use. Unless I get
fed up and make terrariums out of my aquariums.
Mike.
<Yikes... no threats please! BobF>
Sick Polymnus Clownfish 4/17/05
I purchased a mated pair of Saddleback (Polymnus) clownfish about 3 weeks ago. When I first placed them into my 12 gallon QT tank, they seemed very healthy and readily accepted foods including
Mysis soaked in vitamins,
Cyclop-Eeze and small pellets. However, after two weeks or so, I began to notice some odd behavior in the female (who is about 3x larger than her mate). She seemed very lethargic, mostly swimming near the bottom of the tank without the usual bobbing motion associated with her species. Once in a while, I noticed she would just swim from one end of the tank to the other, sometimes gently bumping into the tank wall before reversing direction. She also stopped eating, but exhibited no signs of parasites or other diseases. The male remains very healthy.
<A. polymnus aren't the hardiest of clowns and often fail to acclimate to captivity. The black variant seems to do somewhat better. If these are wild caught specimens, I would suggest that you research and rule out Brooklynella (usually indicated by thick cloudy mucous on skin). If it is Brooklynella, both clowns must be moved to a hospital tank and must be treated with Formalin baths.>
A couple days ago, I moved the pair into the 60gal reef tank, hoping that a larger tank would perk her up. After several hours, the pair began hosting in my LTA anemone. At first I thought the female had perked up, but it has been two days now and she is still not eating (it's been about a week total since she stopped eating). This morning I discovered that one eye is beginning to bulge out, looks like early stages of
Popeye however the eye is not cloudy. There is a small hippo tang in the tank which is perfectly happy and only occasionally hangs around the clownfish and their anemone although I've seen no biting.
<"Pop Eye", especially when only one eye is affected is most often caused by physical injury. However, in her outstanding book on Clownfishes, Joyce Wilkerson describes a very rare fungal disease that often causes pop-eye and the other signs you have described. There is no certain way to diagnose it while the fish is still alive, but she suggests that it can be treated by soaking food in 1% phenoxyethanol I don't have a brand name to recommend, but it will be marketed as an anti-fungal medication (don't substitute!).>
What do you suggest I do? Is her strange behavior just a result of the Popeye she is developing or is there a bigger issue likely involved? Should I move the female (or both) back to the QT tank? Should I treat with
Epsom salts or Maracyn as you sometimes suggest? Thanks for your help. You guys perform a wonderful service! Saahil.
<I would not move the fish again. The other fish have already been exposed to the problem and further stress and physical contact with the injured eye could be quite harmful. If the fish is not eating, there is no way to get phenoxyethanol into the fish (adding to the water is ineffective), so you will have to offer tempting foods and wait it out. Best Regards.
AdamC.> Pop-eye with Pseudanthias lori?
Hi Bob,
Please help! I purchased a seemingly healthy Pseudanthias lori (approx. 3.5" from end to end) 5 days ago for my reef tank. I floated it in the
bag for about 15 minutes, and then acclimated it for about 30 minutes by
taking a cup of tank water and putting it into a bucket that the P. lori was in. After the volume in the bucket doubled, I netted the fish out and placed
it in my reef tank. As soon as I placed it in the tank, it sank to the bottom of the tank and remained there breathing very heavily. It didn't move from its spot for the remainder of the day. I turned off all of the lights just
to make sure it wouldn't get more stressed. I saw it later that night and
it was still breathing very heavily.
<Hmm, here's the brief citation off of the site: www.wetwebmedia.com:
Pseudanthias lori (Lubbock & Randall 1976), Lori's Anthias. To five inches
in length. Indo-Pacific. Best kept in a small group, as they are here at a
marine livestock wholesale operation.
Do only do well in groups...>
I didn't see it again 'til today (5 days later) and I noticed that both of its
eyes are huge. It almost looks like a bubble-eye goldfish with the eyes bulging
out. He doesn't seem like he can see very well (if at all) and he's just sort of
swimming along the sand at the bottom of the tank (probably 'cause he can't
see).
<Yes, likely>
What should I do? Do you know if this will be permanent damage to his eyes, and
if so, how will he be able to survive with 2 bad eyes? :(
Thanks for your time,
Thomas
Tank specs:
120g reef tank with 40g sump
DAS protein skimmer
calcium reactor
150W HQI Metal Halides
Primarily SPS tank
Tank has been setup for approximately 3.5 months w/explosive SPS growth
Parameters:
1.025 specific gravity
nitrates are undetectable
temp: 72-78F
pH: 8.1-8.3
Other Fish:
1 x Pseudochromis fridmani (2.5")
5 x Pink Chromis (3")
4 x Green Chromis (1")
<At this point... I would likely leave this specimen where it is and just
hope for the best... moving it will only increase stress and hasten its
demise... Going forward, if I were interested in most any of the Anthiines, I
would buy them in a small group, avoid netting them in the acclimation process
(just freshwater, pH adjusted, dip them in the bag... on the way into the main
tank... No "treatments" or additions to food, the water are
recommended... "it doesn't look good" for this specimen, but "you
can never tell" and it may rally of its own accord. Bob Fenner, who
encourages to scan over the WWM site for more on livestock selection, this
group, pop-eye.>
Re: Pop-eye with Pseudanthias lori?
Thanks Bob! Could this have been caused by stress?
<Pretty general term... and yes. But more likely due to physical trauma...
rubbing of the animal's eyes somehow>
Some people are
speculating that I may have a supersaturated O2 condition in my tank, but
from what I remember in all of my chemistry classes, under "normal"
conditions, it's pretty hard to get anything supersaturated (and also, the other
fish all seem to be fine).
<Agreed... and all your other fishes would show signs... not likely>
Thanks again for the quick reply and the info.!
Thomas
<Anytime, my friend in fish. Do read over the www.wetwebmedia.com site re
Pop-eye/exophthalmia, and environmental disease pieces and FAQs files. Bob
Fenner>
Maroon clown with bulging eye
Hi Bob,
How's it going? <Fine> Unfortunately I'm having a bit of a problem with
my large female maroon clown that I've had for about five years. I
recently added a small maroon (about 2 inches) to this 100 gallon
ecosystem tank and they adapted to each other immediately. I have
had the small one for about 3 weeks with no signs of disease
whatsoever. The fish have all been extremely healthy in this
system and in all of the other systems I've seen set up with this
system much as the company claims. The other day I noticed that a
yellow-eye tang that I've had for about a year had disappeared and
at the same time my large maroon clown had a large bulging eye.
<Disconcerting to say the least...>
I left her in the tank untreated for about 3 days thinking it might
get better naturally. Unfortunately this hasn't been the case and
although the fish looks very healthy it still has the bulging eye
(I assume it is definitely an injury since it isn't hazy at all).
<If unilateral/one-sided this is likely the case... and I would have done
what you did... and still would... not move, treat... Try feeding vitamin soaked
foods for a bit...>
Today I moved her to a quarantine and treated her with Maracyn 2.
Is this going to help or should I have just left her in the tank.
Have you seen fish recover from this? Thanks
Mike
<Have seen recovery many times... Would re-place the female in the main
tank... try the Selcon et al. soaked prep. Resolution here may take weeks... Bob
Fenner>
Porcupine puffer with a swollen eye
I wonder if you can help, I recently acquired a Porcupine puffer about 3
inches in length. he currently shares a 180L tank with a small Volitans, a 3
inch Clown Trigger fish, a 5 inch Pink tail trigger, a Powder Blue Tang, and
an Imperator Angel. All the water parameters are in very good shape, but
about 1 week after being added to my tank, he suddenly developed a very,
very swollen eye. The eye enlarged in the space of an hour just after
feeding. It's now about 3 weeks later and the situation has worsened, the
swelling is massive and looks very uncomfortable, a significant amount of
air is clearly visible behind the eye cover and in front of the eye itself.
The poor creatures buoyancy is clearly affected yet he feeds
enthusiastically. have you ever experienced anything like this before?
<Yes... first hand and otherwise. Popeye, aka exophthalmia is a condition...
that has several etymologies/causes... If it's one-sided typically this is
resultant from a mechanical injury... a bump in the night or some other organism
bruising the animal... likely one of your triggers or the Angel...>
do
you know of any treatments?
<For advanced cases like this? Best to just "wait, hope, see" what
happens... Please see the "Popeye" and related sections on our site:
www.WetWebMedia.com for more here>
Thanks in advance for your help, I've been very impressed with the words of
wisdom you have offered others
Regards, Ian
<Thank you for your kind words... don't know about wisdom, but collective
experience, yes. Bob Fenner>
Re: Porcupine puffer with a swollen eye
Thanks for the speedy reply Bob, just a quick update, last night the eye
deflated substantially.
(Ah, good)
It's now about the same size as the good eye but
looks a real mess (very opaque and the eye cover surface is rough and
flaky). As for the porky himself, well he seems very busy and active
(getting on the nerves of the Pink Tail seems to be his favourite pass
time!!!)
(Also good)
Thanks again for the help, I'm just about to move all my guys into a 190
gallon (UK gallons) system and build a 90 gallon reef system, so I'm sure
I'll be in touch again if that's ok
(Absolutely my friend. Bob Fenner)
Cheers from the UK
Ian
Pop eye tang
Help please,
I am a relatively new comer to the marine aquarium hobby, however I have
kept fresh water fish for many years. I have had my 75 gal. marine tank for
almost a year with only one loss to date that being a juv. black angel fish
who just wasn't healthy from the beginning. Recently there was what I assumed
to be a parasitic outbreak in my tank. My yellow tang had black spots on it,
my domino damsel and regal tang had what I assumed to be Ich, my other fish
seemed to be healthy. None of the effected fish ever stopped eating. I have
great fear of treating with copper because of its toxicity, which would mean
immediate death to my inverts, and do not have the space for a quarantine
tank.
<Really?>
All available space taken up by my other (5) fresh water tanks. My
course of treatment was as followed, large water change, 30 gal., followed by
freshwater baths for the effected fish. Then I removed the activated
charcoal from filter and have been treating the tank with a reef safe product
called Chem-Marin stop parasites because of the invert and live rock
population. The yellow tang and domino damsel showed immediate results
following the fresh water bath. However the regal tang's ich seems to have
been replaced with what appears to pop eye.
<More like "supplemented" or "joined" than replaced>
I'm not sure what caused the
pop-eye which isn't as bad as the pictures on your web site, more of a
clouding of the eye.
<Yes... do supply obtuse examples as illustrations... do think the cloudiness
is related to the health, current situation of your system>
The pop-eye section appears to be missing from your web site.
<Not placed yet. Thanks for this reminder...>
What should be my continued course of action be? Should I stop the
treatments, add an antibiotic, or continue for the recommended five days?
Water conditions were tested today and found to be optimal, corals and
inverts are all fine with no harmful effects from the treatment.
<Hmm, because... there has been no real treatment... what has likely gone on
is the parasites are in a collective in-between population boom phase... You'll
see in a few days... See my notes below>
My setup is
quite simple, I run an aqua clear 500 filter, a protein skimmer and three
power heads to move the water around. The only other thing in the tank is a
bubble wall which is on the side opposite the intake for the filter. When
the treatment is over should I replace the charcoal and the sponge portions
of the filter, or can I replace the old charcoal portion which was only three
days old when the outbreak occurred, the sponge portion was left in during
the treatment. Will my nitrifying bacteria survive the treatment or do I start
over? Also I have seen much mention of your book, I would like to know the
title and where it is available (Amazon?).
<Hmm, probably "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", Amazon does
sell this and another title of mine... But back to your diseased system (not
just the fish hosts)... I would go the entire route of using one of your
freshwater tanks... yes, a lot of work, but necessary... to move the marine
fishes to (alternatively, the non-fish livestock could be moved, but I wouldn't
do this here)... and lower the spg, elevate temp. as stated in numerous places
on the WWM site... and, yes, use a copper based medication, test kit for two
weeks as also stated on WWM under "Copper Use", "Marine Parasitic
Disease"... and not return the fishes to the main tank for at least a
month... better two... and adhere to a strict dip/bath protocol for acclimation
henceforth at least... if not use a quarantine tank... Bob Fenner>
Fish eye injury
I have a lion fish that has stopped eating and looks like it has a scrape
off scale mark on one side if its body and one gray smoky eye that is
extremely enlarged. What is wrong and what can I do about it?
<exophthalmia... (Popeye) likely caused by being spooked/frightened into the
rock or glass. May require antibiotics, do use some Epsom Salt (from the
pharmacy is fine) at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons one time. Prepare to medicate in
a QT tank if swelling doesn't subside within three days. Review medication
procedures for exophthalmia in the disease section here on WWM. Don't worry about
the lack of feeding...they can go for weeks without food. Best regards,
Anthony>
Thank You, R.Doughten
Pop-eye
Hi,
My Banggai cardinal has a rather bad case of pop-eye. Being that he is
in my 80 gal. reef and almost impossible to catch, what are my choices?
Is this disease a symptom of something worse to come?
<if it is one eye only, there is a good chance that it swelled from a
mechanical insult (bump, startle, spook in to the glass rock, etc). It may go
down on its own, but is just as likely to turn into a bacterial infection. Still
not really contagious (unless tank conditions overall are poor/organic
rich...lack of water changes, poor protein skimming, overfeeding, etc). My
advice is to add a one time dose of Epsom salt (from the pharmacy) at one
Tablespoon per 10 gallons. It is reef safe and helps to purge the fluid from
behind the eye. This magnesium sulfate is commonly found in fish food and sea
salt. Completely safe... just don't abuse it. Else, medication in a hospital
tank may be necessary. Many tricks to easily catch this fish (some recent ones
shared in the archives). Best regards, Anthony>
Tang Compatibility
Anthony... Just so I am clear...if I decide to use the Mag Sulfate for the
Popeye, would it be best to add via the sump or directly to the tank or it
really does not matter?
<good question... when in doubt (and most often), dissolve an additive or
salt (as in this case) in some aquarium water and add to a strong stream of
water. The sump would be a fine place to mix the mag sulfate in slowly>
"Humour" with a "u"? <GRIN> Thanks, Mitch
<hehe... in better, humour :) ...Anthony>
Popeye in Mombassa lionfish
Hi Bob, I work at a fish store in Virginia and was lucky enough to find a rare
Pterois mombassae mis-labeled as a miles lionfish. He has been at the store for
several months now and I have been setting up a 30 long for him at my
house.
<wow... a small and rather temporary housing for this rare find>
He had the most spectacular huge green eyes, the giveaway that he was a Mombassa
and not a antennata. He is housed in a FO centralized system of about 1000
gallons made up of about twelve 75 gallon tanks. We have a large wet dry filter,
large skimmer, numerous UV sterilizers and a large sand filter. His tankmates
are a clown trigger, a large lunar wrasse and up until recently a show size Rock
Beauty angel. The angel died of a combination of Popeye and some other skin
disorder (white film on skin). Now the lion's beautiful green eyes are cloudy
and swollen-- one more so than the other. Is Popeye contagious?
<exophthalmia (Popeye) is rarely contagious but rather an expression of
degraded water quality and/or a bacterial infection. Do consider treatment in
isolation with Epsom salt (1 TBN per 5 gallons) and a broad spectrum antibiotic
(no Maracyn products please for this)>
Immediately after the angels death we did a massive water change on the system.
After consulting with my boss, who has been in saltwater for over 10 years, I
have been bucket treating the lion with Kanamycin. I fill up a 5 gallon bucket
with system water, then add an airstone and pump, dose one whole teaspoon of
Kanamycin and add the lionfish. I do this during the time I work, usually 6-12
hours almost every day. I have restricted the feeding of the lion so that only I
do it-- last thing he needs is to be overfed. We feed nutrient soaked krill,
shrimp and big silversides. What is your opinion of this treatment? Any changes?
Suggestions?
<as above, my friend. Perhaps Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone for antibiotics
used together>
I really do not want to lose this lion, he is a gem and is my favorite fish.
Thanks for your help, Andrew
<best regards, Anthony>
I Yam what I Yam...so sayeth the POPEYE
Greetings Mr. Fenner and crew....
<ahhh... crew member Anthony Calfo here... AKA Antoine... AKA the Marine
Nazi... AKA Joey Bag O' Donuts... and once, only once... AKA Shirley>
I've got a habit of purchasing the LFS misfits and trying to save them...
<do you mean badly behaved store employees? That is cool. I want my own
indentured slaves too.>
examples are dying/receding brain coral, hammer coral, frogspawn coral, bubble
coral, fox coral, and Candycane corals...They are all doing well now...some for
more than 2 years.
<I am very glad and grateful to hear of your service and empathy. For the
benefit of others reading this... do you notice that every one of the corals
that you named were Large Polyped Stony corals (LPS)? This is so common and the
reason why we strongly recommend that beginners leave hard corals in the stores
for at least a year or more until they become more experienced. LPS can be hardy
but are easily damaged. Kudos to you again for offering to save them>
But I digress :-)
Just today I purchased a potters angel to add to my main tank. I got a steal
because it has a damaged eye. I've been watching this fish for a while, and it
looked like Popeye, but the swelling had reduced and it is really nice and
chunky so I bought it for half price.
<the eye is nice and chunky? Hmm... I'm seeing a pattern of misplaced
modifiers here or you are one really strange dude <G>>
The eye is still whitish, and has a thin film hanging from it, but it looks like
the membrane from the swollen period so I wasn't concerned with that.
<sure.... its just a hanging membrane from an eyeball. What's to worry
about?!>
After acclimating it for appx. 60 minutes (floating and introducing tank water
slowly) I released it into my 15g tank (used to QT all new fish before into to
the main tank).
<very wise with the QT my friend. Thank you!!! Surely one of the ingredients
to your success>
The fish appears normal, but the eye seems to have begun swelling again. It
looks like it is beginning to slowly bulge from the socket. Could this be from a
difference in salinity?
<not at all... there is a relapse in the Popeye and the chance of it being a
bacterial infection the second time around are quite good. Medicate promptly
with a Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone cocktail (like double strength
"Fungus Eliminator" from jungle brand. Also add 1 TBN of Epsom salt
per 5 gallons. Do this 3 times in 5 days and conduct small daily water changes.
No carbon of course>
My water params are:
no2 = 0
no3 = 0
amm = 0
ph = 8.3
alk = 9 dKH
CA = 400
Temp = 79F
<all fine>
I don't like to use any meds for treatment, and in fact this QT is actually a
coral propping tank for me so....any suggestions other than patience?
<I don't like meds either if not necessary but this is a must. Rest assured
than Furan drugs are effective in solution less than 6 hours>
Personally I have had one eyed fish before, and it doesn't bother ME...but I'd
hate to be able to do something and not because I didn't know. By the way...I
did look over the FAQ on this subject, and wasn't going to email but it seems to
be getting worse over the last several hours.
<agreed and thank you>
Thanks in advance for your assistance. By the way...I was ticked because you
(Bob) came to my local reefers club in Sacramento in June but that was the ONE
meeting I couldn't make it to. It was my anniversary and the wifey wanted to go
to Reno...bummer.
<you missed a two fer... I visited too :) from Pittsburgh. You could have
enjoyed my wise cracks in person :p I hope you had a lovely anniversary.>
Jason
<with kind regards, Anthony>
Re: Popeye and Bullies
Hi Bob /Anthony,
<cheers, mate>
One last question regarding pop-eye (I promise).
<no worries>
The swelling in my CB eye has gone down (thanks to Anthony's
suggestion to use Epsom salt) to about normal but
the white semi-opaque covering over his eye is still there.
<quite normal in some cases depending upon the degree of distension before it
was remedied>
He
is also quite blind in that eye (temporary ? enduring ?...I hope not).
<eye injuries are slow to heal... some fishes appear blind in that eye for
many months before full recovery is realized. Still... blindness is possible>
I read on the Web that someone was using Mercurochrome (spelling ?)
as an antiseptic for fungal and bacterial infections including
eye infections and pop-eye for marine fish.
<such topical swab can be effective BUT are NEVER to be applied to eye or
gill tissue>
He mentioned that
you need to net the fish, quickly apply the stuff topically without
getting it all over the place (i.e., NOT in the net on the gills or in the
water !)
and then return fish to tank.
<still not on the eyes... and no hurry to work either. Fishes can be out of
water for a minute of two easily which is likely 60-90 seconds longer than it
takes to swap skin or trim a wound). Just cover the fish (keep dark) with a
clean towel that has been wet with aquarium water (have a helper trickle
saltwater over the gills through the towel if you like) and only uncover the
small section of the fish that will be worked on. The fish should of course be
held in QT after procedure>
Is this at all effective, safe, viable etc. ?
<topicals when appropriate are very effective for skin infections... not the
case here>
Thanks again,
Chuck Spyropulos
<best regards, Anthony>
Popeye maroon clown
Hi Bob,
<Steven Pro this morning.>
I just spent the last 20 minutes perusing the e-mails on the FAQ-Popeye
site-very helpful, but I still have a question. I have a maroon clown that I've
had for 9 years-he had been in a 10 gallon (believe it or not) the entire time
until July when I upgraded to a 55. I elevated the salt level (from like 22 to
25ish) per recommendation of a local dealer to help the new fish (Sp. hog and a
wrasse, both fine) accommodate. Since then, I've had some parasite problems
(which are now under control) and suddenly my clown had a cloudy eye (just one).
The same dealer recommended furan in a QT tank (I'm using a 2 gallon bucket). I
did so, but after 2 days the eye began to pop. He then said furan is no good for
Popeye and that I should switch to EM. The fish has now undergone his fourth
treatment of EM, and has been in QT for 8 days. The eye has not gone down, but
he seems okay otherwise. Should I try Epsom salt as you so often recommended to
others?
<Yes, I would.>
Should I just return him to the tank with the popped eye?
<No>
Will the pop eye kill him?
<Not directly, but your fish could lose the eye and then succumb to a
secondary infection.>
Also, is there a chance that this all resulted from the salt change?
<No>
I'm since converting it back to 22.
<I would keep at NSW concentration. -Steven Pro>
Flame Angel QT decision
Hi Bob:
<Hello Jim, I'm just a doctor! Oh, sorry, an old trekkie>
Wanted to write again with a progress report on the
Flame. After reading
your response, I decided to try Furan-2 and Epsom salts (1 tbsp per 10
gallon) -- one, because I figured if she had to sit in QT another 3 days
she might as well get antibiotics to be on the safe side, and two, for my
own personal education. At any rate, she just completed
her 15th day of
QT, 48th hour of Furan-2, and 24th hour of MgSO4. Interestingly
enough,
her eye now looks worse rather than better! It definitely appears to
be
Popeye, but I don't understand how the condition can look
worse. All of
her other activity is good -- she's eating well, has typical behavior for a
Centropyge, has vibrant color, and her feces is normal-colored although it
has become somewhat stringy since starting the MgSO4, which I'm guessing is
to be expected.
<Yes>
The directions on my Furan-2 box by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals states that it
is a 4-day regime, not a 5-day as posted several places throughout your
website for Furan-based drugs. The antibiotic has a 03/2004
expiration
date, and consists of 60 mg Nitrofurazone, 25 mg Furazolidone, and 2 mg
(just a touch) of Methylene Blue per 10 gallons.
I would greatly appreciate some more hand-holding here from you to help her
through this. I don't see her having a full recovery over the
next 48
hours from the remaining two doses of Furan-2 based on how she looks now,
but I could be wrong as I have no experience with
Popeye. Should I follow
through with a second round of antibiotics, or a FW dip with Methylene blue
and follow with placement in the main tank?
<I would do the latter, hope for a self-cure>
Any explanation on why her
eye looks worse now than better in this situation? I did
a 40-50% water
change 48 hours ago before starting the Furan-2, so water quality is okay.
<No idea. Depends on the root cause of the eye trouble... if it wasn't
bacterial in origin, the treatment might not have done much good...>
Thanks for all of your help and a great website. You have done
immeasurable good and saved a lot of fishes' lives and the ocean's reefs
too by discouraging people from buying inappropriate
species. I look
forward to the day when Flame Angels are routinely farm-raised, which I
understand is fast approaching.
<Yes>
Happy Holidays,
Jim
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Clown fish with red bulging eye 11/6/05
I've searched the site and can't seem to find a similar case. I have a pair of true perculas that have been in my 90 gallon reef tank for over a year. The
female's left eye has all of a sudden turned red and begun to bulge She doesn't seem to be eating either. Any ideas as to what it could be from or if I need
to quarantine her? Any ideas greatly appreciated. Thanks.
<Is likely "unilateral exophthalmia" as a description... and likely due (originally) to a physical trauma (bumping into something)>
P.S. Now it seems that my other fish (presumably my tangs) have started picking on her. She has some bites out of her tail and fin.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm
and #2 linked file above. Bob Fenner>
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