Sick Polymnus Clownfish 4/17/05
I purchased a mated pair of Saddleback (Polymnus) clownfish about 3 weeks ago. When I first placed them into my 12 gallon QT tank, they seemed very healthy and readily accepted foods including Mysis soaked in vitamins, Cyclop-Eeze and small pellets. However, after two weeks or so, I began to notice some odd behavior in the female (who is about 3x larger than her mate). She seemed very lethargic, mostly swimming near the bottom of the tank without the usual bobbing motion associated with her species. Once in a while, I noticed she would just swim from one end of the tank to the other, sometimes gently bumping into the tank wall before reversing direction. She also stopped eating, but exhibited no signs of parasites or other diseases. The male remains very healthy. 
<A. polymnus aren't the hardiest of clowns and often fail to acclimate to captivity. The black variant seems to do somewhat better. If these are wild caught specimens, I would suggest that you research and rule out Brooklynella (usually indicated by thick cloudy mucous on skin). If it is Brooklynella, both clowns must be moved to a hospital tank and must be treated with Formalin baths.>
A couple days ago, I moved the pair into the 60gal reef tank, hoping that a larger tank would perk her up. After several hours, the pair began hosting in my LTA anemone. At first I thought the female had perked up, but it has been two days now and she is still not eating (it's been about a week total since she stopped eating). This morning I discovered that one eye is beginning to bulge out, looks like early stages of Popeye however the eye is not cloudy. There is a small hippo tang in the tank which is perfectly happy and only occasionally hangs around the clownfish and their anemone although I've seen no biting. 
<"Pop Eye", especially when only one eye is affected is most often caused by physical injury. However, in her outstanding book on Clownfishes, Joyce Wilkerson describes a very rare fungal disease that often causes pop-eye and the other signs you have described. There is no certain way to diagnose it while the fish is still alive, but she suggests that it can be treated by soaking food in 1% phenoxyethanol I don't have a brand name to recommend, but it will be marketed as an anti-fungal medication (don't substitute!).>
What do you suggest I do? Is her strange behavior just a result of the Popeye she is developing or is there a bigger issue likely involved? Should I move the female (or both) back to the QT tank? Should I treat with Epsom salts or Maracyn as you sometimes suggest? Thanks for your help. You guys perform a wonderful service! Saahil. 
<I would not move the fish again. The other fish have already been exposed to the problem and further stress and physical contact with the injured eye could be quite harmful. If the fish is not eating, there is no way to get phenoxyethanol into the fish (adding to the water is ineffective), so you will have to offer tempting foods and wait it out. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Pop-eye with Pseudanthias lori? 
Hi Bob, 
Please help! I purchased a seemingly healthy Pseudanthias lori (approx. 3.5" from end to end) 5 days ago for my reef tank. I floated it in the bag for about 15 minutes, and then acclimated it for about 30 minutes by taking a cup of tank water and putting it into a bucket that the P. lori was in. After the volume in the bucket doubled, I netted the fish out and placed it in my reef tank. As soon as I placed it in the tank, it sank to the bottom of the tank and remained there breathing very heavily. It didn't move from its spot for the remainder of the day. I turned off all of the lights just  to make sure it wouldn't get more stressed. I saw it later that night and  it was still breathing very heavily. 
<Hmm, here's the brief citation off of the site: www.wetwebmedia.com:
Pseudanthias lori (Lubbock & Randall 1976), Lori's Anthias. To five inches in length. Indo-Pacific. Best kept in a small group, as they are here at a marine livestock wholesale operation.
Do only do well in groups...>
I didn't see it again 'til today (5 days later) and I noticed that both of its eyes are huge. It almost looks like a bubble-eye goldfish with the eyes bulging out. He doesn't seem like he can see very well (if at all) and he's just sort of swimming along the sand at the bottom of the tank (probably 'cause he can't see). 
<Yes, likely>
What should I do? Do you know if this will be permanent damage to his eyes, and if so, how will he be able to survive with 2 bad eyes? :( 
Thanks for your time, 
Thomas 
Tank specs: 
120g reef tank with 40g sump 
DAS protein skimmer 
calcium reactor 
150W HQI Metal Halides 
Primarily SPS tank 
Tank has been setup for approximately 3.5 months w/explosive SPS growth 
Parameters: 
1.025 specific gravity 
nitrates are undetectable 
temp: 72-78F 
pH: 8.1-8.3 
Other Fish: 
1 x Pseudochromis fridmani (2.5") 
5 x Pink Chromis (3") 
4 x Green Chromis (1") 
<At this point... I would likely leave this specimen where it is and just hope for the best... moving it will only increase stress and hasten its demise... Going forward, if I were interested in most any of the Anthiines, I would buy them in a small group, avoid netting them in the acclimation process (just freshwater, pH adjusted, dip them in the bag... on the way into the main tank... No "treatments" or additions to food, the water are recommended... "it doesn't look good" for this specimen, but "you can never tell" and it may rally of its own accord. Bob Fenner, who encourages to scan over the WWM site for more on livestock selection, this group, pop-eye.>

Re: Pop-eye with Pseudanthias lori?
Thanks Bob! Could this have been caused by stress?
<Pretty general term... and yes. But more likely due to physical trauma... rubbing of the animal's eyes somehow>
Some people are speculating that I may have a supersaturated O2 condition in my tank, but from what I remember in all of my chemistry classes, under "normal" conditions, it's pretty hard to get anything supersaturated (and also, the other fish all seem to be fine).
<Agreed... and all your other fishes would show signs... not likely>
Thanks again for the quick reply and the info.!
Thomas
<Anytime, my friend in fish. Do read over the www.wetwebmedia.com site re Pop-eye/exophthalmia, and environmental disease pieces and FAQs files. Bob Fenner>

Maroon clown with bulging eye
Hi Bob,
How's it going? <Fine> Unfortunately I'm having a bit of a problem with my large female maroon clown that I've had for about five years. I recently added a small maroon (about 2 inches) to this 100 gallon ecosystem tank and they adapted to each other immediately. I have had the small one for about 3 weeks with no signs of disease whatsoever. The fish have all been extremely healthy in this system and in all of the other systems I've seen set up with this system much as the company claims. The other day I noticed that a yellow-eye tang that I've had for about a year had disappeared and at the same time my large maroon clown had a large bulging eye.
<Disconcerting to say the least...>
I left her in the tank untreated for about 3 days thinking it might get better naturally. Unfortunately this hasn't been the case and although the fish looks very healthy it still has the bulging eye (I assume it is definitely an injury since it isn't hazy at all).
<If unilateral/one-sided this is likely the case... and I would have done what you did... and still would... not move, treat... Try feeding vitamin soaked foods for a bit...>
Today I moved her to a quarantine and treated her with Maracyn 2.
Is this going to help or should I have just left her in the tank.
Have you seen fish recover from this? Thanks
Mike
<Have seen recovery many times... Would re-place the female in the main tank... try the Selcon et al. soaked prep. Resolution here may take weeks... Bob Fenner>

Porcupine puffer with a swollen eye
I wonder if you can help, I recently acquired a Porcupine puffer about 3 inches in length. he currently shares a 180L tank with a small Volitans, a 3 inch Clown Trigger fish, a 5 inch Pink tail trigger, a Powder Blue Tang, and an Imperator Angel. All the water parameters are in very good shape, but about 1 week after being added to my tank, he suddenly developed a very, very swollen eye. The eye enlarged in the space of an hour just after feeding. It's now about 3 weeks later and the situation has worsened, the swelling is massive and looks very uncomfortable, a significant amount of air is clearly visible behind the eye cover and in front of the eye itself.
The poor creatures buoyancy is clearly affected yet he feeds enthusiastically. have you ever experienced anything like this before?
<Yes... first hand and otherwise. Popeye, aka exophthalmia is a condition... that has several etymologies/causes... If it's one-sided typically this is resultant from a mechanical injury... a bump in the night or some other organism bruising the animal... likely one of your triggers or the Angel...>
do you know of any treatments?
<For advanced cases like this? Best to just "wait, hope, see" what happens... Please see the "Popeye" and related sections on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com for more here>
Thanks in advance for your help, I've been very impressed with the words of wisdom you have offered others
Regards, Ian
<Thank you for your kind words... don't know about wisdom, but collective experience, yes. Bob Fenner>

Re: Porcupine puffer with a swollen eye
Thanks for the speedy reply Bob, just a quick update, last night the eye deflated substantially. 
(Ah, good)
It's now about the same size as the good eye but looks a real mess (very opaque and the eye cover surface is rough and flaky). As for the porky himself, well he seems very busy and active (getting on the nerves of the Pink Tail seems to be his favourite pass time!!!)
(Also good)
Thanks again for the help, I'm just about to move all my guys into a 190 gallon (UK gallons) system and build a 90 gallon reef system, so I'm sure I'll be in touch again if that's ok
(Absolutely my friend. Bob Fenner)
Cheers from the UK
Ian

Pop eye tang
Help please,
I am a relatively new comer to the marine aquarium hobby, however I have kept fresh water fish for many years. I have had my 75 gal. marine tank for almost a year with only one loss to date that being a juv. black angel fish who just wasn't healthy from the beginning. Recently there was what I assumed to be a parasitic outbreak in my tank. My yellow tang had black spots on it, my domino damsel and regal tang had what I assumed to be Ich, my other fish seemed to be healthy. None of the effected fish ever stopped eating. I have great fear of treating with copper because of its toxicity, which would mean immediate death to my inverts, and do not have the space for a quarantine tank. 
<Really?>
All available space taken up by my other (5) fresh water tanks. My course of treatment was as followed, large water change, 30 gal., followed by freshwater baths for the effected fish. Then I removed the activated charcoal from filter and have been treating the tank with a reef safe product called Chem-Marin stop parasites because of the invert and live rock population. The yellow tang and domino damsel showed immediate results following the fresh water bath. However the regal tang's ich seems to have been replaced with what appears to pop eye. 
<More like "supplemented" or "joined" than replaced>
I'm not sure what caused the pop-eye which isn't as bad as the pictures on your web site, more of a clouding of the eye.
<Yes... do supply obtuse examples as illustrations... do think the cloudiness is related to the health, current situation of your system>
The pop-eye section appears to be missing from your web site. 
<Not placed yet. Thanks for this reminder...>
What should be my continued course of action be? Should I stop the treatments, add an antibiotic, or continue for the recommended five days?
Water conditions were tested today and found to be optimal, corals and inverts are all fine with no harmful effects from the treatment. 
<Hmm, because... there has been no real treatment... what has likely gone on is the parasites are in a collective in-between population boom phase... You'll see in a few days... See my notes below>
My setup is quite simple, I run an aqua clear 500 filter, a protein skimmer and three power heads to move the water around. The only other thing in the tank is a bubble wall which is on the side opposite the intake for the filter. When the treatment is over should I replace the charcoal and the sponge portions of the filter, or can I replace the old charcoal portion which was only three days old when the outbreak occurred, the sponge portion was left in during the treatment. Will my nitrifying bacteria survive the treatment or do I start over? Also I have seen much mention of your book, I would like to know the title and where it is available (Amazon?).
<Hmm, probably "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", Amazon does sell this and another title of mine... But back to your diseased system (not just the fish hosts)... I would go the entire route of using one of your freshwater tanks... yes, a lot of work, but necessary... to move the marine fishes to (alternatively, the non-fish livestock could be moved, but I wouldn't do this here)... and lower the spg, elevate temp. as stated in numerous places on the WWM site... and, yes, use a copper based medication, test kit for two weeks as also stated on WWM under "Copper Use", "Marine Parasitic Disease"... and not return the fishes to the main tank for at least a month... better two... and adhere to a strict dip/bath protocol for acclimation henceforth at least... if not use a quarantine tank... Bob Fenner>

Fish eye injury
I have a lion fish that has stopped eating and looks like it has a scrape off scale mark on one side if its body and one gray smoky eye that is extremely enlarged. What is wrong and what can I do about it?
<exophthalmia... (Popeye) likely caused by being spooked/frightened into the rock or glass. May require antibiotics, do use some Epsom Salt (from the pharmacy is fine) at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons one time. Prepare to medicate in a QT tank if swelling doesn't subside within three days. Review medication procedures for exophthalmia in the disease section here on WWM. Don't worry about the lack of feeding...they can go for weeks without food. Best regards, Anthony>
Thank You, R.Doughten

Pop-eye
Hi,
My Banggai cardinal has a rather bad case of pop-eye. Being that he is in my 80 gal. reef and almost impossible to catch, what are my choices?
Is this disease a symptom of something worse to come?
<if it is one eye only, there is a good chance that it swelled from a mechanical insult (bump, startle, spook in to the glass rock, etc). It may go down on its own, but is just as likely to turn into a bacterial infection. Still not really contagious (unless tank conditions overall are poor/organic rich...lack of water changes, poor protein skimming, overfeeding, etc). My advice is to add a one time dose of Epsom salt (from the pharmacy) at one Tablespoon per 10 gallons. It is reef safe and helps to purge the fluid from behind the eye. This magnesium sulfate is commonly found in fish food and sea salt. Completely safe... just don't abuse it. Else, medication in a hospital tank may be necessary. Many tricks to easily catch this fish (some recent ones shared in the archives). Best regards, Anthony>

Tang Compatibility
Anthony... Just so I am clear...if I decide to use the Mag Sulfate for the Popeye, would it be best to add via the sump or directly to the tank or it really does not matter?
<good question... when in doubt (and most often), dissolve an additive or salt (as in this case) in some aquarium water and add to a strong stream of water. The sump would be a fine place to mix the mag sulfate in slowly>
"Humour" with a "u"? <GRIN> Thanks, Mitch
<hehe... in better, humour :) ...Anthony>

Popeye in Mombassa lionfish
Hi Bob, I work at a fish store in Virginia and was lucky enough to find a rare Pterois mombassae mis-labeled as a miles lionfish. He has been at the store for several months now and I have been setting up a 30 long for him at my house. 
<wow... a small and rather temporary housing for this rare find>
He had the most spectacular huge green eyes, the giveaway that he was a Mombassa and not a antennata. He is housed in a FO centralized system of about 1000 gallons made up of about twelve 75 gallon tanks. We have a large wet dry filter, large skimmer, numerous UV sterilizers and a large sand filter. His tankmates are a clown trigger, a large lunar wrasse and up until recently a show size Rock Beauty angel. The angel died of a combination of Popeye and some other skin disorder (white film on skin). Now the lion's beautiful green eyes are cloudy and swollen-- one more so than the other. Is Popeye contagious? 
<exophthalmia (Popeye) is rarely contagious but rather an expression of degraded water quality and/or a bacterial infection. Do consider treatment in isolation with Epsom salt (1 TBN per 5 gallons) and a broad spectrum antibiotic (no Maracyn products please for this)>
Immediately after the angels death we did a massive water change on the system. After consulting with my boss, who has been in saltwater for over 10 years, I have been bucket treating the lion with Kanamycin. I fill up a 5 gallon bucket with system water, then add an airstone and pump, dose one whole teaspoon of Kanamycin and add the lionfish. I do this during the time I work, usually 6-12 hours almost every day. I have restricted the feeding of the lion so that only I do it-- last thing he needs is to be overfed. We feed nutrient soaked krill, shrimp and big silversides. What is your opinion of this treatment? Any changes? Suggestions? 
<as above, my friend. Perhaps Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone for antibiotics used together>
I really do not want to lose this lion, he is a gem and is my favorite fish. Thanks for your help, Andrew
<best regards, Anthony>

I Yam what I Yam...so sayeth the POPEYE
Greetings Mr. Fenner and crew....
<ahhh... crew member Anthony Calfo here... AKA Antoine... AKA the Marine Nazi... AKA Joey Bag O' Donuts... and once, only once... AKA Shirley>
I've got a habit of purchasing the LFS misfits and trying to save them...
<do you mean badly behaved store employees? That is cool. I want my own indentured slaves too.>
examples are dying/receding brain coral, hammer coral, frogspawn coral, bubble coral, fox coral, and Candycane corals...They are all doing well now...some for more than 2 years. 
<I am very glad and grateful to hear of your service and empathy. For the benefit of others reading this... do you notice that every one of the corals that you named were Large Polyped Stony corals (LPS)? This is so common and the reason why we strongly recommend that beginners leave hard corals in the stores for at least a year or more until they become more experienced. LPS can be hardy but are easily damaged. Kudos to you again for offering to save them>
But I digress :-)
Just today I purchased a potters angel to add to my main tank. I got a steal because it has a damaged eye. I've been watching this fish for a while, and it looked like Popeye, but the swelling had reduced and it is really nice and chunky so I bought it for half price. 
<the eye is nice and chunky? Hmm... I'm seeing a pattern of misplaced modifiers here or you are one really strange dude <G>>
The eye is still whitish, and has a thin film hanging from it, but it looks like the membrane from the swollen period so I wasn't concerned with that. 
<sure.... its just a hanging membrane from an eyeball. What's to worry about?!>
After acclimating it for appx. 60 minutes (floating and introducing tank water slowly) I released it into my 15g tank (used to QT all new fish before into to the main tank). 
<very wise with the QT my friend. Thank you!!! Surely one of the ingredients to your success>
The fish appears normal, but the eye seems to have begun swelling again. It looks like it is beginning to slowly bulge from the socket. Could this be from a difference in salinity?
<not at all... there is a relapse in the Popeye and the chance of it being a bacterial infection the second time around are quite good. Medicate promptly with a Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone cocktail (like double strength "Fungus Eliminator" from jungle brand. Also add 1 TBN of Epsom salt per 5 gallons. Do this 3 times in 5 days and conduct small daily water changes. No carbon of course>
My water params are:
no2 = 0
no3 = 0
amm = 0
ph = 8.3
alk = 9 dKH
CA = 400
Temp = 79F
<all fine>
I don't like to use any meds for treatment, and in fact this QT is actually a coral propping tank for me so....any suggestions other than patience? 
<I don't like meds either if not necessary but this is a must. Rest assured than Furan drugs are effective in solution less than 6 hours>
Personally I have had one eyed fish before, and it doesn't bother ME...but I'd hate to be able to do something and not because I didn't know. By the way...I did look over the FAQ on this subject, and wasn't going to email but it seems to be getting worse over the last several hours.
<agreed and thank you>
Thanks in advance for your assistance. By the way...I was ticked because you (Bob) came to my local reefers club in Sacramento in June but that was the ONE meeting I couldn't make it to. It was my anniversary and the wifey wanted to go to Reno...bummer.
<you missed a two fer... I visited too :) from Pittsburgh. You could have enjoyed my wise cracks in person :p I hope you had a lovely anniversary.>
Jason
<with kind regards, Anthony>

Re: Popeye and Bullies 
Hi Bob /Anthony,
<cheers, mate>
One last question regarding pop-eye (I promise).
<no worries>
The swelling in my CB eye has gone down (thanks to Anthony's suggestion to use Epsom salt) to about normal but the white semi-opaque covering over his eye is still there. 
<quite normal in some cases depending upon the degree of distension before it was remedied>
He is also quite blind in that eye (temporary ? enduring ?...I hope not).
<eye injuries are slow to heal... some fishes appear blind in that eye for many months before full recovery is realized. Still... blindness is possible>
I read on the Web that someone was using Mercurochrome (spelling ?) as an antiseptic for fungal and bacterial infections including eye infections and pop-eye for marine fish. 
<such topical swab can be effective BUT are NEVER to be applied to eye or gill tissue>
He mentioned that you need to net the fish, quickly apply the stuff topically without getting it all over the place (i.e., NOT in the net on the gills or in the water !) and then return fish to tank.
<still not on the eyes... and no hurry to work either. Fishes can be out of water for a minute of two easily which is likely 60-90 seconds longer than it takes to swap skin or trim a wound). Just cover the fish (keep dark) with a clean towel that has been wet with aquarium water (have a helper trickle saltwater over the gills through the towel if you like) and only uncover the small section of the fish that will be worked on. The fish should of course be held in QT after procedure>
Is this at all effective, safe, viable etc. ?
<topicals when appropriate are very effective for skin infections... not the case here>
Thanks again,
Chuck Spyropulos
<best regards, Anthony>

Popeye maroon clown
Hi Bob,
<Steven Pro this morning.>
I just spent the last 20 minutes perusing the e-mails on the FAQ-Popeye site-very helpful, but I still have a question. I have a maroon clown that I've had for 9 years-he had been in a 10 gallon (believe it or not) the entire time until July when I upgraded to a 55. I elevated the salt level (from like 22 to 25ish) per recommendation of a local dealer to help the new fish (Sp. hog and a wrasse, both fine) accommodate. Since then, I've had some parasite problems (which are now under control) and suddenly my clown had a cloudy eye (just one). The same dealer recommended furan in a QT tank (I'm using a 2 gallon bucket). I did so, but after 2 days the eye began to pop. He then said furan is no good for Popeye and that I should switch to EM. The fish has now undergone his fourth treatment of EM, and has been in QT for 8 days. The eye has not gone down, but he seems okay otherwise. Should I try Epsom salt as you so often recommended to others?
<Yes, I would.>
Should I just return him to the tank with the popped eye?
<No>
Will the pop eye kill him?
<Not directly, but your fish could lose the eye and then succumb to a secondary infection.>
Also, is there a chance that this all resulted from the salt change?
<No>
I'm since converting it back to 22.
<I would keep at NSW concentration. -Steven Pro>

Flame Angel QT decision
Hi Bob:
<Hello Jim, I'm just a doctor! Oh, sorry, an old trekkie>
Wanted to write again with a progress report on the Flame.   After reading your response, I decided to try Furan-2 and Epsom salts (1 tbsp per 10 gallon) -- one, because I figured if she had to sit in QT another 3 days she might as well get antibiotics to be on the safe side, and two, for my own personal education.    At any rate, she just completed her 15th day of QT, 48th hour of Furan-2, and 24th hour of MgSO4.   Interestingly enough, her eye now looks worse rather than better!  It definitely appears to be Popeye, but I don't understand how the condition can look worse.   All of her other activity is good -- she's eating well, has typical behavior for a Centropyge, has vibrant color, and her feces is normal-colored although it has become somewhat stringy since starting the MgSO4, which I'm guessing is to be expected.
<Yes>
The directions on my Furan-2 box by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals states that it is a 4-day regime, not a 5-day as posted several places throughout your website for Furan-based drugs.   The antibiotic has a 03/2004 expiration date, and consists of 60 mg Nitrofurazone, 25 mg Furazolidone, and 2 mg (just a touch) of Methylene Blue per 10 gallons.
I would greatly appreciate some more hand-holding here from you to help her through this.   I don't see her having a full recovery over the next 48 hours from the remaining two doses of Furan-2 based on how she looks now, but I could be wrong as I have no experience with Popeye.   Should I follow through with a second round of antibiotics, or a FW dip with Methylene blue and follow with placement in the main tank?
<I would do the latter, hope for a self-cure>
   Any explanation on why her eye looks worse now than better in this situation?    I did a 40-50% water change 48 hours ago before starting the Furan-2, so water quality is okay.
<No idea. Depends on the root cause of the eye trouble... if it wasn't bacterial in origin, the treatment might not have done much good...>
Thanks for all of your help and a great website.   You have done immeasurable good and saved a lot of fishes' lives and the ocean's reefs too by discouraging people from buying inappropriate species.    I look forward to the day when Flame Angels are routinely farm-raised, which I understand is fast approaching.
<Yes>
Happy Holidays,
Jim
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Clown fish with red bulging eye 11/6/05
I've searched the site and can't seem to find a similar case. I have a pair of true perculas that have been in my 90 gallon reef tank for over a year. The female's left eye has all of a sudden turned red and begun to bulge She doesn't seem to be eating either. Any ideas as to what it could be from or if I need to quarantine her? Any ideas greatly appreciated. Thanks.
<Is likely "unilateral exophthalmia" as a description... and likely due (originally) to a physical trauma (bumping into something)>
P.S. Now it seems that my other fish (presumably my tangs) have started picking on her. She has some bites out of her tail and fin.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm and #2 linked file above. Bob Fenner>