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FAQs about Identification of Soft Corals of the Family Alcyoniidae 4

Related Articles: Soft Corals of the Family Alcyoniidae

Related FAQs: Alcyoniid ID 1, Alcyoniid ID 2, Alcyoniid ID 3, & Cnidarian Identification, Soft Corals of the Family Alcyoniidae, Alcyoniids 2, Alcyoniids 3, Alcyoniids 4, Alcyoniid Selection, Alcyoniid Compatibility, Alcyoniid Systems, Alcyoniid Feeding, Alcyoniid Behavior, Alcyoniid Health, Alcyoniid Propagation, Soft Coral Propagation, Soft Coral Health, Dyed Corals, Soft Coral Propagation, Nephtheids, Dendronephthya, Paralcyoniids, Nidaliids, Xeniids, Dyed Corals,

Photo usage    2/19/18
Hi Bob (or to whom it may concern):
Dr. Tim Wijgerde is publishing a new study titled "Epizoic acoelomorph flatworms inhibit growth and expansion of the soft coral Cladiella sp." that will soon appear in Advanced Aquarist. He came across a photo hosted on WWM that he would like permission to use in his paper. Let me know if it's possible for him to use the following photograph (with
accreditation to wetwebmedia.com):.
<This is my image and I do grant free use of it here.
<Make it known if you want the full size file.
Bob Fenner>

Re: Photo usage    2/19/18
Thank you Bob! I'll credit to you and WWM in the paper.
<Real good Len. Cheers, BobF>

Salt Water Identification Assistance      7/9/17
Hoping you guys can help ID a new found presence in my aquarium.
Thanks! Chad H.
<The whitish bit? Have cropped, spiffed about as well as I can... appears to be a bit of octocoral... likely a soft coral of some sort. You could excise. Bob Fenner>

Tyree Leather Question; ID, hlth.    9/6/13
Hi there,
First to start, I was told when I purchased this toadstool it was a Tyree Neon Green Leather. I have attached photos, do you believe it is indeed?
<Will have to guess what you're after here... Was SteveT paid some money, or paid himself some for lending his appellation to this sort of phenotype Alcyonacean? Can't tell from here. Could be>
 I have looked at others online and notice slight variations in the polyps.
<Oh! There's all sorts of dissimilarity here to be expected; due to recent experiences, conditions in locus>
Are others mis-classifying similar leathers?
<Doubtless; consciously and not>

Or was mine mis classified. I only have one not great picture of it when it was open.
<See it/this>
The real question is should I worry it has been closed for 3 days.
<Oops; have you read on WWM re such? I would... Alcyoniid beh. FAQs>
The other corals
<... Umm, and re Allelopathy.
.. how was this animal introduced here? Read on!>
 I have (all on separate rocks) are open and healthy. When I was attaching the frag, I unfortunately had to touch the leather a few times. The first day, it was on the sandbed
<.... this species grows attached to rock; not on substrates>

opening within 20 minutes, after attaching on day 2 it closed and hasn't reopened. Is it just reacting, possibly shedding from handling? Does it still look healthy despite being closed? 
<Macroscopically (which doesn't count for much); yes>
My parameters are:
Nitrate- undetected
<Uhh, keep reading... All chemo-autotrophs need measurable NO3, HPO4 and more
... Something the folks making the big bongo bucks selling novices chemical filtrants, gear seem to want to neglect mentioning.>
Nitrite- undetectable
KH- 180-200 on strip test
PH- around 8
Thanks for your time
<You'll thank me/use much more after reading, more fully understanding what's going on here; and better, what can be done to "make things better".
Bob Fenner> 

Do you see what I see?
Re: re: Tyree Leather Question   9/6/13
Ah my mistake. I know Steve Tyree has his name attached to many things in this industry, but I thought Tyree green toadstool was a specific name for a specific type of toadstool.
<Likely is; I don't know what is meant by "specific type"... Have seen something similar listed as "ORA" "type">
In my reading over the past few days I have seen that leathers are usually the aggressor, or at least the victor in chemical battles.
<Indeed they are; though all such life wars in various ways, degrees>
I thought this could be the issue so I did a water change yesterday and  I run activated carbon, but I can change it out just incase.
I have also read that toadstools will cover themselves with a mucus or waxy like substance from time to time.
<Kind of a continuous behavior... build-up, and shedding>
 There seems to be some debate as to what exactly this is a response to. I didn't have much time to get my baseline observation of how mucus covered or wax covered it appeared while it was open, so I don't know if this is one of those cases. I had hoped it would come through in the pictures I sent, all I have is my camera phone and it always wants to focus on the glass specks and not the corals.
I introduced the toadstool by float method over approximately 25 minutes.
<... please read where you were referred to... this SOP is NOT useful for mixing Cnidarians>
 I also introduced an Australian hammer coral over the same period. Both corals are approximately 1 inch diameter. The toadstool being 1.5 to 2 inches tall. The hammer is doing great.
<Euphylliids/Caryophylliids generally "rank higher" on/in allelopathogenic rankings/battles>
I have green star polyps, orange and green Zoas, green Zoas,
<... and see WWM re these, Compatibility FAQs>
 the toadstool and hammer coral, and 2 trumpet corals. I have read Zoas can sting touching corals, but are they usually a threat via water column?
<Can definitely be>
 Also, none of the corals touch or are even on the same rock.
<Doesn't exclude their negative interacting>
I also have a healthy maxima clam. A yellow watchman goby, and paired tomato clowns.
I realize it isn't a perfect world where you can just tell me the exact answer, but should I remove a coral, change my carbon, or just wait and see.
<To read. B>
Thanks again,

Tang ID / Coral ID & Advice     5/29/13
Hi Bob, Crew:
It's been a while since I've written, the last time you may recall a few years back resulted in a Chloroquine Phosphate experiment in a 300 gallon display. I am hoping you can help me identify two species in a tank I have recently adopted.
The first, the Tang appears to me to be a Zebrasoma species, I am leaning toward veliferum; however, the tail markings are not consistent with what I read on your site. Can you ID the species and tell if it is a juvenile or adult?
<It is as you state; not quite an adult... grows to more than plate size in the wild; turns dark>
Secondly, we have a problematic / unhealthy handful of what appear to be Sinularia spp.
 I moved them toward the top of the tank nearer to the MH lighting and in an area of increased flow about a week ago. Most were near the bottom with weak flow prior. Can you help me ID the species or at least confirm I am headed in the right direction?
<Don't need much flow; but do have other specific needs... is there measurable NO3, HPO4 here?>
As you can see from the image,
the animal is not happy. The 125 gallon tank has been in place about 60 days with good, stable water parameters being 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, No traceable nitrates and S.G. of 1.025-26. 3-150 Watt MH (10,000k), 8 actinic florescent, with 12 hour photo period. I have targeted with iodine, strontium, and calcium alternate with carbon in the sump / refugium overflow chambers.
<... [Ca], [Mg], alkalinity? Other Cnidarian life present?>
I have included an overall view of the reef so you have a point of reference. The (Sinularia) species in question is right of the Kenya Tree near the top right of the image. It was moved from the far left, bottom where the red mushrooms are now.
<These are likely winning out over the Alcyonaceans... see WWM re them (compatibility FAQs) and allelopathy>
 I do not believe the tank is overcrowded; although, there is a wide range of SPS, LPS, and soft coral. Everything else appears happy, healthy.
<Not all>
Thank you for your input!
<Read on! Bob Fenner>

Coral Identification   1/28/13
Dear Crew,
I bought this as a frag and was hoping you could help me identify it is it a leather,
<Is an Alcyoniid>
surely it is not an sps as my nitrates are not always undetectable and I don't think I could support sps? Thanks for the help.
<I would be moving it (distal to) from the GSPolyps. Bob Fenner> 


Coral ID and attachment    3/29/12
Hi crew! A neighbor was getting rid of his tank and was going to throw out this coral so I rescued it. It is in my QT and I am wondering if you can ID it?
<A soft coral species of some sort... perhaps a Sinularia, Litophyton species Read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/CnidIndex1.htm
the last tray...>
Also it was not attached to anything (no rock, shells, plugs) and I am trying to get it to attach to this piece of live rock I have. It has a nice crater like hole and the base of the coral fit nicely into it. Assuming all goes well with the coral and it lives how long will it take to attach to the rock?
<Several days to a few weeks>
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral ID and attachment    3/29/12
Hello Mr. Fenner!  Thank you for the quick response. After looking on WWM it appears to be a Sinularia. Thank you for the ID...you guys are the best! 
It would have taken me days of scouring the website to ID it. I will now determine if it is something I can keep.  Thanks again!  Jennifer
<Ah good. Cheers, BobF>

New Coral, ID 4/28/11
Hi WWM crew:
<Howsit Jeff?>
I am hoping you might be able to help me ID the coral in the attached photos. I had a tough time getting a good picture of this coral (of course, I can get good photos of all others).
This coral grew from nowhere on the rock it is one. It must be some sort of an octocoral, but just cannot tell anymore than that.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!!
Cheers Jeff
<Is a small Sarcophyton sp.. Will be getting MUCH larger in time. Bob Fenner>

Re: New Coral 4/28/11
Thanks Bob! Thought so but the small ones do look different that the larger ones.
<Mmm, see here: http://wetwebmedia.com/alcyoniidsii.htm
for the genus. BobF>

coral identification problem 1/19/11
Sir or Ma'am,
I have been searching for the identification of this coral for several months.
<Mmm, I don't think this is a coral... not an Alcyonacean or Scleractinian definitely>
I have posted pics of it several times on reef central and no one seems to have a good answer.
If you guys can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks much!
<From the gross shape, "tentacles" I suspect you have a Pennatulacean here... a Sea Pen. Bob Fenner>
Re: coral identification problem
Thanks bob!
<Welcome Jonah. Please send along any further ID, pertinent husbandry info. you gather. BobF>

Re: coral identification problem 2/14/11
Posted this again on RC and some suggested pulsing leather. That sounds like what I was told by the guy I got the frag from.
<Mmm, had to look this up myself... Pulsing soft corals are Xeniids, Leathers Alcyoniids... I don't see an explanation of taxonomic affinity... Is this supposedly a Sinularia sp.? You got me. BobF>

Re: coral identification problem 2/18/11
Ok. Just heard back from the guy I got it from. Pumping Sinularia???
<Okay... B>

UNKNOWN Hitchhiker shroom 9/26/10
Hey lads,
<And lassies>
Good day to you and lots of greetings from Cyprus!!!
<Ah, have visited your island... back in 96... with the Hash House Harriers>
Been on the web for a while now searching for this mushroom growing day by day (was just a tiny piece and I didn't know what it was until it started rounding itself) but haven't found anything. Any ideas what kind it is?
Many thanks in advance!
<An Actinodiscus/Discosoma of some sort. Read here:
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: UNKNOWN Hitchhiker shroom 9/26/10
Hey Bob thanks for your prompt reply buddy! If you come over some time again I'll buy you some beer ;o)
<Antonis! Thank you!>
I cannot find it on the net anywhere even with the description you gave me
<Your specimen (thus far) is badly "bleached out"... and will change in structure and form and color with improvement in health, growth. BobF>

Re: UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom 9/26/10
Ohhh I see, well let's see what turns out to be then .
Water parameters are:
salinity: 1.025
ammonia: 0
Phosphate <.003
Nitrates: 0
<Yikes... need more HPO4 and definitely more NO3... These animals are partially chemoautotrophic>
Nitrites: 0
kH: 11.2
temp: 25 degrees Celsius
And it's under a 150 w halide that's why it grown so well in just one month! It was a 1.5cm piece and now it became like that and still growing:)
<Ah good. BobF>
Alternate ID? for "UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom 9/26/10"
I saw this message from the dailies, "UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom 9/26/10" and would like to offer the guess of a small Sinularia dura instead of an Actinodiscus/Discosoma. The oblong white spots could be sclerites seen through the tissue, with the prominences around the outer margin and on the surface being polyps. Obviously a less blurry picture would help.
<Interesting. Thank you for chiming in Brandon! Will accrue your guess w/ mine. BobF>

Re: UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom 9/29/10
Bob matey, just found this on the net! Could it be one of these thingies?
Looks a LOT like mine I think!
<Mmm, this link is coming up for me... are you thinking something like this:
Re: UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom 9/29/10
How about now, can you see the attachment?
<Ah yes... the soft coral Sinularia dura. B>
Re: UNKNOWN Hitchhiker Shroom
It's almost exactly the same(colour, light coloured irregular stripes, polyps). Might be?
<Could be. B>

Coral I.D. (an Alcyoniid, me thinks) -- 08/22/10
We are wondering if you could help us with a coral identification.
<<I shall try>>
This was sold to us as broccoli coral -very easy care, filter feeding and needing no light.
<<Mmm, I want to make clear here--'very easy care' most always NEVER applies to marine organisms described as 'filter feeding and needing no light.' With very few exceptions most all these type critters, and especially the azooxanthellate corals, are very difficult to maintain for any length of time--even by 'experienced' hobbyists. Most starve, wither and die in weeks to months. But the good news is, I don't think that is what you have here. I think what you have is an Alcyoniid--perhaps a Sinularia or even a Cladiella species (and looking 'unhappy' when this pic was taken). Though it is hard to be certain from the pic and the physical state of the specimen. Have a look around here and the associated links and see what you think: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyoniids.htm >>
What little information we can find on these is very conflicting and we can't seem to find a similar picture (especially in color).
<<If it is what I think, color can vary--generally tans/light browns to pinks, greens, even 'blue-ish'>>
Is this the correct species?
<<See my previous comments re>>
What care and placement would you recommend?
<<See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyonfdgfaqs.htm
And here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyonsysfaqs.htm >>
We also read they may be toxic, is this the case?
<<Everything on the reef fights for survival/real estate--these organisms have developed a very effective means of 'chemical warfare' to this end. But to be more direct, yes, these organisms are toxic--and this 'toxicity' is only compounded in a closed system. Do research our site for the word 'Allelopathy' to gain a better understanding and to learn about means of mitigation>>
Thanks for your help!
Courtney & Dan
<<Is my pleasure to share'¦ Eric Russell>>

Lobophytum ID?
Hi guys!
Thanks for all your help. You guys saved my Fungia (on hard substrate until I read your site). It's doing great now, tentacles expand quite fully almost 24/7.
<Ah good>
Anyway, I have what appears to be a blue-gray Lobophytum. This guy is one of those low, stalkless colonies with ridges/rumples, similar to the large pic of the blue Lobophytum on your Alcyoniids page. Polyps are white, small
(maybe 3 mm long? 1 mm diameter? I'm really bad at judging these things), and retractile. However, the only problem is... it's not soft! Is it just encrusting a lump of rock, or what? There's not much thickness showing at
the edge of the colony, though. This is a frag, I believe, of one of the rumples on a larger colony. From my reading on your site and Borneman's book, I've figured out they're supposed to be pretty stiff for soft corals, but this feels just like a stony coral! There aren't any calyces, just little tiny pits that the polyps retract into. What is this thing? I would kind of like to know before I put it in my reef tank so I can know where to affix it. I can attach a pic if necessary.
<Please do send along a couple of well-resolved images. Bob Fenner>
Thanks much,

Green Nephtheidae ID? 1/8/10
<Hello Bill>
First I should say thank you for creating a website with such good useful information. Thank you, I am sure I speak for many in the hobby
<Thank you for your kind words!>.
I have had what I think is green Nephthea for years <I don't think so>. It was bleech <bleach>
white when purchased from the local store in Michigan. Over time it developed a very nice fluorescent green color. No one seems to agree on an ID. I have been told green Sinularia <yes> and green Capnella <no>,
but it still looks like green Nephthea to me even after reading the website information on Nephtheidae. Pictures are taken about 30 inches from the T5 lighting. The main colony close to lights does not have as bushy of an appearance and is much more green.
What is you opinion? Anything else I should know about it? It grows easily and is easily fragged, so I assume it isn't very rare. <my opinion, Bill, is that this is indeed a Sinularia.
Thank you in advance for your help!
(from Michigan)

Coral Frag ID ...Possibly Devil's finger? 12/11/09
<Hi there>
I just sent an email to WWM last night, but I don't believe it had a return email address, which I just realized (sorry about that).
<Mmm, I don't see it/this in our "sent folder"... either your name or a Subject title the same>
I bought this coral from my LFS back in Nov. of 2008 from a "rescue" basket of broken frags. It did not look like it was doing well, but for only a few bucks I thought I'd try to save it. The LFS did not know what it was and after searching around for a while now I have not been able to come to a satisfactory ID.
<Mmm, is an Octocoral, an Alcyonacean... likely an Alcyoniid of some sort>
I thought it might be a Devil's Finger coral, but it doesn't look quite the same.
<Maybe not yet>
Its currently under 130W of CPF lighting in a 29 gal tank, which it was just moved to last night (thus why it is not fully expanded). It was previously under 34 W of regular fluorescent lighting in a 5.5 gal tank. I realize this is why it hasn't grown, but it is now under better conditions to flourish. Any help with Identification would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Mike A.
<Mmm, please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/alcyoniids.htm
and the linked files above... and try to be patient, wait a few months... to see what this turns out to be. Perhaps a Sarcophyton species... could be another genus. Cheers! Bob Fenner>

Green Sinularia? 10/28/09
Hey Guys,
< Hello >
About 8 months ago I purchased a "Green Sinularia" from an online company.
Thing is, I'm not so sure it is what they said it was.
< It does appear to be a type a Sinularia or possibly Paralemnalia sp.? >
Here are some pictures of it and was wondering if you could tell me what it is and how to care for it.
< Standard reef conditions apply here. With lighting moderate to high, and water flow moderate to strong. >
I have metal halide lighting
< 75W? 150? 250? >
and 2 x 600 gph power heads pointed forward from opposite corners to create random current.
< Water flow could be part of your problem as well as lighting. 2 x 600 gph in a 90 works out to roughly 13 X turnover which I consider to be a little on the low side. Aim for closer to 20X's turnover. >
From what I have read, Green Sinularia like to have good water movement but not directly, however if I do not keep the power head pointed at it, it kind of closes up. Since I have had it, it has never really sat up right
like I have seen in pictures, but rather slumps downward. I have a 90 gallon tank, with two hang-on Aqua-C Remora protein skimmers, the power heads and a heater for equipment. While this coral has grown since I've had it, it doesn't appear to be in the most optimal conditions. Thank you so much for your help!
< I would consider adding another power head to up the water flow and slowly move it closer to your lighting. It could be as simple as repositioning it.
Please begin reading here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/softcrlsysfaqs.htm GA Jenkins >
Joshua Lucero
Oklahoma State University
Undergrad Senior in Zoology

Critter Identification -- 08/26/09
I have recently acquired a candy cane and have found what appears to be a soft coral amongst the heads.
Can you have a look to see if you can ID it please as I have looked through the site and a couple of books I managed to get my hands on but cant find anything similar.
It measures approximately 10mm across and the polyps protrude about 2-6mm (tips are feathery), the top is dome shaped and the stalk looks like that of an aiptasia.
<It is hard to discern from the photo, but I would guess family Alcyoniidae, and Genus Sarcophyton.>
Apologies for the quality of the photo but its the best i could do.
<Do a search on Sarcophyton and see if it might look similar, but I am afraid that is the best I can do from that photo, perhaps another crew member will chime in.>
Thanks in advance for your help and the great informative site that you provide.
<You're welcome,
Josh Solomon.>

Coral ID 10/8/08 Hi all, <Hi Bryant, Mich here.> This is my first post to the people at WWM, so in advanced I give my thanks and say great job on the site. I enjoy your site very much and it has helped me many times in the past since I am rather new to being an aquarist :) <Glad you found us!> I have had this coral for a couple months already. <Best to know what you're getting for before assuming care!> When I purchased it, the coral was tiny and about the size of a golf ball. I bought it being told it was a toadstool leather. <Is a Sarcophyton.> After a while of looking around online I saw that some toadstool leathers have longer tentacles than others. I just figured that mine had shorter ones than the others and I did not pay it any mind. Recently, about a week ago, the leather started sprouting little flowers, or polyps. Hopefully you can make them out in the photo that is attached. In the end I am curious to see what type of coral I have and if it is looking healthy where it is. <It is looking healthy.> After looking around I noticed that it needs moderate light (at the moment it is at the bottom of my 55g reef tank with 4, 54w T5's) I also read somewhere today that leathers should not be placed near Zoanthids. If this is true then I have to move it. <Sarcophytons exude many chemicals that can inhibit the growth of many other corals.> Either way I look forward to what you have to say, and once again I thank you guys for the awesome job you are doing. <Welcome> Bryant <Mich> By the way, if you want higher resolution images let me know, I took this one with my phone and it is a little blurry. <Is fine.>

An Alcyoniid at least. RMF
Leather Coral ID, Lobophytum -- 4/24/08 Hi, <Hello Dave, Brenda here!> Could you please help identify a coral I received yesterday? I bought a coral on a internet auction and it arrived with an extra coral that I know nothing about, I have attached a picture and I would be really grateful if you could help me identify it and give me some advice as to where to place it in my tank as I have quite a bit of live rock, t5 lighting and 3 powerheads. Also what food would I need to feed and does it need target feeding. It appears to be a Lobophytum to me. This is commonly called a devil's hand and/or finger leather coral. I have not target fed this coral, I let it eat through the water column. More information found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyoniids.htm and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/soft.htm > Many thanks, Dave
<You're welcome! I hope this helps! Brenda>

Leather Identification 04/23/2008 Dear Crew, <<Hello, Andrew here>> I am trying to identify a leather I purchased at my LFS. I was wondering if it was a toadstool or something else. I have been looking for a toadstool for awhile but 3 LFS keep telling me that they are hard to identify and they just trust what they are told from the wholesaler. <<Ahhh yes, this is a Sarcophyton Alcyoniidae>> Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Jason <<Thanks for the question Jason. Good day. A Nixon>>

Re: Leather Identification 04/28/2008 Dear A. Nixon, <<Jason>> Do you think that the 5 grouped together is going to be a problem as they grow or should I separate them now and place them around the tank? <<I would split and spread out around the tank>> Thanks, Jason <<Thanks for the follow-up, regards, A Nixon>>

Coral ID 03/30/2008 Hi everybody, This is Sam from India... <<Hello Sam, Andrew today>> Hope all are doing great out there! Well, I recently got this soft coral shipped, which was in the box for two nights, but has made it quite well, was a bit wounded, but seems fine now. I know that it is a leather coral, but I wanted to get a proper identification from the experts. Can you ID this coral's genus, species would be even better! As, then I will have better understanding of its needs. Please see the attached picture, the coral had come three days ago, when it came in it was totally shirked and dark in color, now it is a little larger and turgid. Basically, I don't know how it looks when the polyps are fully extended. So, knowing the species will help compare images for indication on health! Also, looking at the image what do you feel about its health and condition, how large does it extend it polyps? Also, how much time does and average soft coral take to molt? <<Ahh yes, a leather finger coral by the name of Lobophyton. Looks in a nice condition, and will look even better when it extends out>> Thanks in advanced! Cheers, Sam
<<Thanks for the question. A Nixon>>

Leather Coral ID, Lobophytum, 1/01/08 Hi WWM Crew! <Hello, Brenda here> Please help me correctly ID this coral sold to me as a Finger Leather Coral. <It is a Lobophytum, commonly referred to as a Finger Leather, or a Devils Hand coral.> Much appreciated. Kind Regards K.
<You're welcome! Brenda>

Leather ID, Sinularia flexibilis -- 1/01/08 Hi WWM Crew! <Hello, Brenda here> Please help me correctly ID this coral sold to me as a Green Medusa Coral. <It is a Sinularia flexibilis. I have not heard of this coral being referred to as a Medusa.> Much appreciated. Kind Regards K. <You're welcome! Brenda>

Re: Leather ID, Sinularia flexibilis -- 1/03/08 Thanks for all your responses and answers. You've been a great help. <You're welcome!> Would you agree that this is more like the Sinularia mollis? <They are both very similar, and it may be a Sinularia mollis. See here: http://www.reefpedia.com/index.php/Sinularia and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alcyoniidsii.htm > Either way, is there a common name which doesn't resemble a snake headed monster? <There are a few, see common names in the first link above.> Thanks again.
<You're welcome! Brenda>

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