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Catastrophe, what next, electrical f'...
env. dis... 8/13/08
Hi guys,
<And gals of course, hello.>
It is a sad, sad day that I have to write this to you. And a terrible thing for
me because, in an admittedly short perusal of your site, I didn't come across
anything quite as terrible, and catastrophic as what has happened to me. Which
makes me feel like even more of a failure.
I won't belabor the lead up to why this all happened, as I already feel terrible
about the things I should have done, or could have done to prevent this, but
focus instead what I need to do moving forward. I recently returned from a one
week vacation to find that my circuit breaker had popped and my tank electricity
had gone out. It was a soup. Everything, but everything had died. It was
terrible. Corals, Fish, snails, shrimp, stars everything Even the worms that had
come in either with the rock or sand). A terrible terrible loss. The kids were
devastated, I was devastated. All our little critters, whom we had named and
loved were gone. The time, the dedication, all gone.
<I’m sorry to hear this, that’s horrible.>
I really want this to work again before I give up for good, it was such an
wonderful addition to our family. I called my local LFS and he said that he
thought my rock and sand would come back with some seeding.
<I would reuse it too.>
So I cleaned up the mess, sucked out all the water and did a clean of rocks and
glass (not in fresh water though) I cleaned all pumps filters etc and filled it
back up with fresh salt mix water. Knowing I was going to have to cycle it
again, and not wanting to damage the rocks and sand any further by leaving them
dry I just used tap water (Pretty good but a little high in phosphates- but much
quicker than my little RO system can deliver)
<It’s fine for these purposes.>
Since then I have done a 25% water change every day, assuming that the natural
filters are dead too, so just to get the bad water that might be left out. I ran
some tests this morning and found my Ammonia to be 4.0 or better (can't tell the
colors are so similar on the card) no Nitrites no Nitrates, no surprise if the
filter is indeed dead.
Salinity is 1.026. So my question is this. In order to seed the sand, can I put
new live
sand right in there now?
<I would just continue water changes and give it time. Your biofiltration will
come back, perhaps adding some new live rock when your water quality has
improved for diversity.>
Or is the Ammonia too high and will just kill the bacteria in the sand?
<The ammonia is too high, this level will continue to kill whatever may not be
dead yet on your rock, adding to the problem. Water changes and likely quite a
few of them. It is going to be just like curing it all over again, perhaps a bit
worse with the sand. >
Should I also get a little new live rock and put that in there too?
<I would wait to add anymore rock until the ammonia is down, any life on that
rock will be susceptible, adding to the problem.>
Should I keep up with the 25% water changes daily until the ammonia comes down
first? <Yes> (Though I assume stuff will keep seeping from the sand and falling
off the rocks for a while) I started with Carib Sea Agra Live, can I just put
more of that in? (I
was thinking another 20 LB bag)
<If you have not already you will want to scoop out what sand you can and
rinse.>
Also should I bother running the skimmer and powerheads during the renewed
cycling phase?
<Definitely, this will only help your water quality.>
And lastly, do you have any suggestions on how to bring this all back?
I know better now how to circumvent the electricity and other issues I believe
led to this crash, but am unsure if I can start with this rock and sand, and not
have to start from total scratch. It is really depressing to walk into that room
now. What was once a robust and growing, colorful glowing reef system, is now
barren rock and sand.
<Just give it cleaning, water changes and time. Once your levels are okay, you
will want to consider a bit more live rock to reseed some of the fauna that did
not survive.>
Thanks for your help.
<Welcome. Scott V.>
(Tank is a 40 gallon reef, 40 lbs of rock, 40 lbs of sand, a Millennium 3000 HOB
filter, an AquaC remora (not running currently) and 2 powerheads (not running
currently) and a Jager heater. I use Instant Ocean salt mix, and am leaving the
lights off during the renewed cycle phase.)
Response to "Catastrophe,
what next" 8/14/08
Thank you so much to Scott V. as well as the writer (name not given) of
"Catastrophe, what next".
I wanted to let the WWM crew as well as readers know how valuable these are. It
is important to share our failures so that others may learn from our mistakes.
<It is, some of my experience (and all of us if we admit it) is based on
failures. Others can learn much from another’s mishaps.>
I was curious to see what IYO, would be the cause of a "popped breaker". I have
only had this occur when using multiple large appliances, never when the house
was empty. The writer did not state that this was due to a power outage.
<Any number of things could have happened. Water dripping on a plug or
powerstrip could and should trip the powerstrip, GFCI and/or breaker is very
common. Also, it is common in my area (and many others) where the summer lows
are in the mid 90’s through the night to see catastrophic power outages while
away from home. A person leaves for vacation and sets their air conditioner at a
higher temperature. This causes the chiller to run through the night. Sooner or
later the chiller is either running when the halides start up or they all start
simultaneously. If your system is not adequately wired the breaker will (and
again should) trip, the startup load cannot be handled in many cases. The answer
for this is to run your system on more than one leg off your breaker box, with
the high load items on separate legs. Depending on the size of the system this
can be many legs with heavy gauge wiring and higher amp breakers than normally
seen in most houses. Long winded, but these are the two most common example I
personally see.>
Some precautions that I would take given this situation would be to have my
power supply inspected by a licensed electrician, and perhaps to have someone
check in on the home a few times during the vacation. Do you have any other
suggestions?
<Having an electrician check it all out is a good idea if a person is not
familiar with electrical systems (or even if a person is!). Goes without saying
someone should check the system while you are gone. Other than that, power
backup supplies can help out during a short power outage. There are also a few
products out there that will call or page you if your tank’s power goes out, the
tank gets too hot, or any number of factors you can set. I have even seen people
set up one or more webcams on their tank, broadcasting over the net to check up
on it while on vacation. Even with these devices you will still need someone
with a basic knowledge that you can trust to come over and fix any mishaps.
Could you imagine being thousands of miles from your tank, having the equipment
set up to know your power went out for many hours or more, and not having any
means of troubleshooting/repairing the thing?>
Again, thank you for sharing and responding to this. Hopefully, other people
will learn from this tragic situation.
Joe
<Thank you for writing, I too hope people can and will learn from such
situations. Scott V.>
A Quick Question About Power Consumption For
A 170g FOWLR – 07/02/08
Hello All,
<<Greetings Kevin>>
I'm sure this is answered somewhere on the site, but I'm in a bit of a time
crunch and I haven't been able to locate it.
<<Okay>>
Some quick background - I'm in the process of finishing our basement and have
framed out a spot for a 170 gallon fowler tank in one of the walls.
<<Neat!>>
The electricians are doing all the electric today
<<Uh-oh, then this is getting to you late…sorry about that. Most queries are
answered the following day (sometimes all the Crew/Bob can do to keep up in the
limited time available), unless a question is somehow flagged in the title as
requiring immediate attention and catches someone’s eye>>
and they tossed me a curve ball by asking me how much electricity the various
components would use. I was not prepared to answer this and I'm not sure where
to start.
<<Could be calculated from the labels re…assuming all gear is present and you
have a basic understanding of electricity>>
I'm planning to have a good size sump/fuge under the tank so I'll have two
pumps, a light, heater, possibly a cooler and the lights for the display tank.
<<I see>>
How much electricity do I need to have to run those items and everything else
that I'll need to plug in?
<<Even without the high energy lights of a reef tank, I would recommend a
“minimum” of two “dedicated 20-amp circuits”…each terminated in a double-duplex
GFCI setup>>
Everything I've read talks about the GFI outlets and drip loops, but nothing I
saw talked about how much juice you need - or would want - if you were starting
from scratch.
<<Not easily “specified” due to the varieties of size and system type…but a pair
of 20-amp circuits should give you enough power even if you decide to go later
with a reef tank. Unless you think you will also be “upsizing,” in which case I
would add an extra circuit while it’s easiest to do so>>
If someone could shoot me back a guess at the anticipated wattage and amperage
needs I would be extremely grateful. I'll keep looking in the interim.
Best,
Kevin
<<Apologies again for the delay…and good luck with your new install. EricR>>
Re: A Quick Question About Power
Consumption For A 170g FOWLR - 07/02/08
EricR,
<<Hey Kevin>>
Thanks for the response.
<<Quite welcome>>
I called around to some local fish stores and ended up with the 20 amp circuit
answer. I think we mathed-out about 1,500 watts of power in the likely
components used. So even though the ship for changing it has sailed, I'm glad to
know I got the right thing.
<<Ah good>>
Thanks again - I'm sure I'll have some more questions for you when I start
buying equipment in the coming months.
<<Cool, I look forward to conspiring with you>>
Right now I'm wrestling with glass vs. acrylic
<<Mmm, yes…advantages/disadvantages to both. Having had both (my current setup
is composed of a 375g acrylic display…)…if money is not a factor, I would go
with a “low-iron” glass display…else, for this size tank…I would likely stick
with glass, period>>
and what type of sump set-up to run under the tank.
<<Do read up and come back with some more specific questions re>>
Best,
Kevin
<<Be chatting. Eric Russell>>
Grounding Probe Info 4/23/08
Dear Crew,
I was doing a little research on grounding probes and came across this article
written by a Georgia Tech professor, and thought I'd share:
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/GroundingProbes.html
Basically, he educates the reader on the difference
between voltage in the tank (not a problem) and current in the tank (a problem)
and concludes that the addition of a grounding probe more often than not causes
a current problem where none previously existed (the website also contains a
good discussion about GFI outlets). Although I don't know the author and can't
vouch for his wisdom, it seemed to make sense to me. This article was a real eye
opener for me--not because I was moments away from wasting $22 on a grounding
probe, but because every single catalog and every single e-tailer I see sells
and touts grounding probes.
<I do not... and have not... all these decades...>
I assume that there are cases in which they have some benefit, but I came away
thinking, gee, this is like "reef safe ich killer" and many of the other
products I see you guys poo-poo as worthless snake oil--it's amazing to me that
people can legally make tons of money off of hobbyist by selling stuff that
doesn't actually work or even causes harm.
Cheers,
Andy
<Agreed... and this is indeed a very fine piece... and the link to this
gentleman's tank project period: http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/MICHELSONAquarium.html
Thank you for sending this along. Will post/share. Bob Fenner>
Re: Grounding Probe Info... and the
meaning/liability for the term/label "reef safe"
Bob,
<Andy>
That guy's site is really interesting/insightful.
Because I've never used anything that claims to be "reef safe", I've
never had the opportunity to read the label or warranty (if there is
one) on "reef safe" medications as to who bears responsibility when a
hobbyist uses such a product and his/her reef dies (or maybe nothing
dies because it's just colored water?).
Something tells the manufacturer disclaims liability.
<I have said on occasion that I do wish I had the time and/or money to
hire someone in the legal biz to challenge (i.e. sue) the many folks who
make such disingenuous products... "If only...". BobF>
Re: Grounding Probe Info
Was that a subtle nudge?? ;-)
<... always>
Ah, we could spend many a keystroke discussing this topic. In some ways
I am surprised it has not happened. Lawyers tend to have more money than
the average Joe = bigger/more expensive tanks = bigger/more expensive
crashes from use of dubious products = higher $ damages.
The problem with your dream is that you need one of the following (i) a
lawyer who's been personally screwed and is willing to shoulder the
legal battle, (ii) a rich hobbyist willing to pay a lawyer by the hour
(not likely) or (iii) a pot at the end of the rainbow for a contingency
fee lawyer (i.e., a big enough class of plaintiffs who have been harmed
that a lawyer's 35-40% fee is big enough to take the case).
My guess is that the warning labels on these products make it clear that
"we cannot guarantee that nothing will die from this. Of course it is
best to treat in a separate hospital tank, and the hobbyist assumes the
risk of adverse effects if used in the display."
<Well put>
Every consumer product comes with a warranty of merchantability (i.e., a
warranty that the product does what it says it will do). Generally, a
manufacturer cannot disclaim such a warranty in a consumer transaction.
To pursue such a claim takes a lot of time and, if you hire a lawyer,
money. The court system is so expensive and time consuming these days
that it makes pursuing these claims difficult.
There is always the state's attorney general/consumer protection
division, but my experience is that regulators are loathe to take on
such matters unless there has been a significant financial harm.
<Mmm, our system of jurisprudence/litigation is the element of being a
U.S. citizen that I "like" best/worse about America. Cheers, BobF>
|
Current USA Orbit - Shock,
JamesG referral 12/30/07
Gentlemen,
<And some ladies...>
I have a problem with the lighting system on my 110g saltwater aquarium. I have
a 60" Current USA Orbit lighting unit that is a little over a year old.
Recently, when I try to remove the clogged plastic mesh in my skimmer box by
reaching under the Orbit light, I have received a shock similar to touching a
low voltage electrical fence wire. I am very concerned here.
<Me too>
I have a GFI/GFCI that all my equipment is plugged into. Why did the GFI/GFCI
NOT trip?
<A/the "secondary" circuit here... fluorescents have such...>
The GFI/GFCI will trip when tested and it will reset also. I do not know what is
going on here. Could this just be static electricity?
<Mmm, doubtful>
I have never had a problem with shock reaching under the light in the past. And
when I touch the top of the lighting unit which is metal, I do not receive a
shock.
<I am referring you to our resident electrical engineer liaison, James/Salty...
I would test (with a voltage meter) to determine the source of stray electric
here... make sure you're not grounded, or what you're standing on isn't, when
working in this tank>
Obviously, a remedy for this is to not stick my hand under the light fixture
(dah..) My main concern at this time is for my future safety. Any words of
wisdom will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, BobbyG
<James? Bob Fenner>
Re: Current USA Orbit - Shock,
JamesG referral 12/30/07
<Hi Bobby, Bob has asked me to offer my input on this problem, and a
life threatening
one at that. Bobby, the way a GFCI works is by constantly monitoring
current from the hot line to the neutral. Any imbalance that occurs,
even as low as a couple of milliamps, will trip the GFCI as quickly as
1/30 of a second. An imbalance will occur if some of the current is
directed through your body instead of the neutral line, which is what
you experienced. If the GFCI was wired correctly, it will protect you.
It is a good idea to manually trip the GFCI on a weekly basis,
especially in a wet environment. If it trips, it is working, if you
cannot reset it, it is defective and must be replaced. You must be
certain that ALL aquarium accessories are plugged into the GFCI, if this
is not the case, then please do so for your safety. If the above test
works and shocking still occurs, I advise you to have a qualified
electrician inspect the unit to insure it is wired correctly. James
(Salty Dog)> |
Overflow prevention, electrical kill
switches 9/28/07
Crew-
<Craig>
Do any of you clever people know of an electrical approach to keep the power off
to my return pump in case of a power outage?
<Mmm, there are a few... you can build or buy... I'd call on a licensed
electrician here... as "the code" varies by State, country...>
I have a return pump that I do not want to restart in case of an outage.
<You are wise here... too much chance of more trouble... overheating, fire...>
I have done some searching re this subject but have only found generators,
battery backups to take over for a loss of power. I am looking for a solution
that would keep the power from coming back on to the pump in the event that
power is lost.
<There are such switches...>
Having staged several "drills" to test my overflow, there is no way I can be
assured the overflow will restart and keep up with the return pump if power is
lost. Adding additional draining capacity is not an option at this stage.
Thanks for your input, contributions.
Craig
<Mmm, am wont to state much for fear of liability... Again, there are simple
devices to do what you want. Perhaps even available "off the shelf" at large-box
hardware stores... Bob Fenner>
A Flicker Of Light...Is This The End of
The Tunnel? – 09/23/07
I had a hard time finding the information I am looking for.
<<Okay>>
I apologize if this question is similar in content to others you have answered.
<<No worries>>
I have a 55-gallon reef tank that has been up and running successfully for two
years.
<<Excellent>>
All parameters are normal; fish and corals thriving. I have a Current Satellite
fixture that has been an excellent choice. However within the past six months
the lamps (bulbs) on one of the ballast began to flicker.
<<Do swap bulbs around to determine this is not the problem>>
At first the flickering was temporary, then it became constant. I bought new
lamps and this did not solve the problem. Then my boyfriend (an electrician)
disassembled and reassembled the unit. It did not flicker again for about two
weeks. Now it flickers randomly once or twice a week, maybe more, and I am not
there to notice. Several opinions have me confused.
<<Oh?>>
One source told me that it was probably a loose wire, not to worry.
<<Mmm, possibly…but “is” a worry and should be found/fixed if so>>
Another told me that a new ballast was needed.
<<Another possibility, yes>>
Before I spend the money on a new ballast, is the now, temporary flickering,
harmful and or indicative of a larger issue?
<<If this is a loose wire, the flickering may well prematurely wear the bulb or
ballast…might even constitute a fire hazard>>
If it is, or was, a loose wire would a new ballast be of any benefit?
<<Only if replacing the ballast addresses the loose wire…otherwise you are no
better off. You state your boyfriend is an electrician…I would think it a simple
matter for him to determine the problem here>>
I tend to be a hypochondriac but it seems that my anemone may be "reaching" for
light more than is usual.
<<The lamps are likely in need of replacement>>
Could the lamps be producing less light, without giving any visual indication?
<<Oh yes!>>
Is there any way to measure the light that the tank is receiving?
<<Indeed there is… To get a true reading of the Photosynthectically Available
Radiation (PAR), or effectiveness, of your chosen bulbs you would need to invest
in a PAR meter…and then one that has a waterproof sensor that can be submersed
(not cheap/easily found…though an enterprising DIYer might rig one themselves).
There is a waterproof LUX meter available in the trade for about a C-note. This
meter will measure foot-candles (brightness/luminance) at a specific distance
and if readings are taken on new bulbs, they can be used as a “benchmark” to
measure diminished luminance with age…
Any input would be most appreciated.
Thank-you.
<<Quite welcome. EricR>>
PVC Electrical Conduit For Plumbing
Applications? – 06/29/07
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Rafiq>>
Is it possible to use electrical conduit PVC piping for plumbing a marine tank.
<<Mmm, maybe…but I wouldn’t recommend it. It’s not intended for liquid/pressure
applications. And though I am only guessing here, the formulation “may” contain
elements that might leach/prove harmful in a “liquid” environment>>
We currently have a shortage of ¾" and this is what is available.
<< It would help had you stated the exact application of the ¾” pipe. Aside from
the obvious cost increase, why not just step-up to 1” or 1.5” diameter pipe;
assuming this is more readily available?>>
Would PVC generally be UV resistant?
<<Not unless it is identified as such…in my experience, PVC will “yellow” and
become brittle when left to long-term direct Sun exposure. For UV resistance of
PVC pipe and fittings, paint with a white water-based latex paint>>
It will be in direct sunlight (does not appear to be an issue in electrical
applications?).
<<Perhaps the electrical conduit “does” have some UV protection>>
It is thinner walled than the normal pressure rated (5psi) piping I use, would
this be an issue with a pressure rated pump (about 2000lph)?
<<For my own peace of mind (and especially if I were doing this install for
someone else), I would stick to PVC material intended for “plumbing”
applications…even if it meant going up a size>>
Do I have to worry about salt corrosion here too?
<<Of the PVC?…no>>
And yes, you're still the best resource available to anyone in the H2O hobby,
respect and thanks to you!
<<Thank you for this…we’re happy to share>>
Regards,
Rafiq van Greuning
<<Eric Russell>>
Re: PVC Electrical Conduit For Plumbing
Applications? – 06/29/07
Dear Crew,
<<Rafiq>>
Please note I have found a useful reply after some extra searching through the
site, thanks. Made a mistake on the PSI rating I quoted anyway :-)
Regards,
Rafiq
<<Good luck with your project. EricR>>
Selective stray current? - 3/12/07
Hello!
<Hello Kimberly! Brandon here tonight.>
I am a regular lurker here!
<Me too!>
I have a strange question for you today…
<Impress me.>
I work weekends at a popular on line retailer, we have recently moved and set up
all new systems. Over the weekend, I had a customer who needed snails, I placed
my hand in the tub of snails and ZAPPP!
<Been there more times than I care to count. Perhaps I should pay closer
attention to the wires.>
I looked at my hand and there was a cut on my finger, but this was more than
just the sting from a cut touching saltwater. I was not getting zapped in the
main displays , so I tried the other hand.. same thing! Two tubs down, another
employee was bagging up some crabs from a tub that is plumbed into the same
system mine is, he was unaffected. I ask him to try the tub I was having issues
with and he felt nothing. I had him get my snails, I didn't want to get ZAPPED
again! I touched the water of another tank about 10 minutes later, nothing.
Unfortunately, about a half an hour later I was ZAPPED again while getting some
crabs. This tub was plumbed into the same system as the other tub that zapped
me. By then I was a little freaked. I grabbed another employee and had him try
the tub. HE HE! Hard to believe people will stink there fingers in water to see
if it shocks them!
<People are funny like that.>
He felt nothing. Then a few other employees came by to test it and comment that
it must be my 'electrical personality. HA HA! I told the manager, he said he too
had been shocked once about a week ago. He placed a grounding probe on the system
and will be investigating the equipment.
So, any ideas why I was getting ZAPPED and nobody else?
<I had the same problem Saturday as a matter of fact. I happened to be drip
acclimating a few Acroporids, and I noticed after being shocked, that the finger
that was shocked, had a small cut on it. Out of curiosity, I tried the other
hand. To my surprise there was no shock. Now I am no electrician, and this is
not professional advice, but my guess would be that the current was so minute,
that it only shocked the super-sensitive, sub dermal layers of skin that were
exposed due to the cut. I would further imagine that the same thing happened in
your case.><<Mmm, much more likely a matter of what shoes... grounding or not
was in place... At any length, very dangerous to the livestock and people
involved... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elecmar.htm and the linked files above,
particularly re GFCI use... VERY important. RMF>>
Another quick question, if you don't mind.
A customer brought in a Seastar he had caught himself. I am about 95% sure it is
a Pentaceraster cumingi,
<You could check here to confirm,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars2.htm. Scroll down to Family
Oreastridae. There are three pictures shown. Does it look like one of these?>
the Panamic Cushion Star. He stated it was eating his corals so we placed it in
one of the 100 gallon refugiums. I have two tanks, one is a 125 gallon reef
the other a 240 gallon FOWLR. The manager told me I could take him for my 240.
He doesn't think it will survive long in the refugium. I am afraid, however,
that it won't last long in my FOWLR ! Your website states it's not the hardiest
of Seastars.
<I think that it is not so much a matter of hard, as much as starving to
death. These stars get rather large, and their feeding habits are very
specialized. Micro-fauna in the substrate, benthic algae, seagrass, other
echinoderms, and possibly corals. In a large, very established tank with a
large refugium as well, with no other competitors or predators, if you could get
it to eat prepared foods you might have a chance. But again, these are a lot of
ifs. To me it would be worth the shot if the above conditions could be met, but
do realize that it will most likely starve to death, much like Astropecten spp.>
What do you think?
<Please see above. Re: very established system.>
It is really pretty, my kids would love it. I am just really finicky about what
I place in my tanks!
Thank you for your time and your opinions!
<You are very welcome. Brandon.>
Kim
Electrical Safety-Need Advice
1/21/07
Hi,
<Anthony, Graham T. here tonight.>
I am in the process of setting up a nano reef (an Oceanic Bio Cube 14),
and as I am sure you are aware, there are a lot of electrical cords!
<Indeed..>
I have four wires that need to be place<d> on timers (1 10k, 24 watt PC
lamp, 1 actinic 24 watt PC lamp, 1- 50/50 24 watt PC lamp, 2 fans (that
go on with the day lamps), and 2 LEDs. The 10k, Actinic, and 50/50 are
on two cords, and the fans are separate, as are the LEDs. (This
modification was done by Nanotuners.com) A 50 watt heater, a power head,
a stock pump, and occasionally another small pump and another 50 watt
heater for water changes/ top off. I want to incorporate a GFCI, which
would be fine with a regular power strip, but the timers do not all
physically fit on the strip. So my plan is this: Plug the GFCI which has
three outlets, and to two of the outlets, plug in a "power squid". How
safe will this be? Note: This will be the only thing plugged into the
outlet.
<I see no problem with your plan at all, and was actually considering
going that route myself when I saw the "squid" for the first time last
weekend at RadioShack. A GFI is certainly an excellent addition for some
piece of mind, and an improvement over the typically used "overload"
breaker in power strips. When you are considering safety with extension
cords, just remember Ohm's law:
VOLTS X AMPS = WATTS. Watts are what trip circuits and burn through
insufficient wiring. Actually, if you saw some
of the daisy-chain power-bars I have worked on under tanks with much
more power than you are consuming... but I digress. A typical "up to
code" outlet/circuit is good for 15-20Amps @ 120VAC. ( 1800watts )
Whenever setting up a system on a new circuit, I like to go to the
breaker panel and flip the controlling breaker to find out how many
other outlets are on the same circuit. This will not affect the safety
of your setup, rather it will ensure that it doesn't trip said breaker
when you are mixing/heating water.
HTH - Graham T.>
Thanks,
Anthony |
|
 |
Electrical Safety-Need Advice again 1/21/07
Hi,
<Hello.>
Thanks for the response, but what's the answer? I don't see one... (Maybe
you forgot to type it?)
<Did I? I thought you were asking about the safety of using the GFCI and two
"squid" power strips. I said it's quite safe, and that I was considering doing
the same. Did I miss a question?>
Thanks,
Anthony
<Let me know if I/you/we missed something here
-Graham T.>
Re: Electrical Safety-Need Advice again 1/21/07
Hi,
Thanks Again,
I received the following:
Hi,
<Anthony, Graham T. here tonight.>
I am in the process of setting up a nano reef (an Oceanic Bio Cube 14), and as
I am sure you are aware, there are a lot of electrical cords!
<Indeed..>
I have four wires that need to be place<d> on timers (1 10k, 24 watt PC lamp, 1
actinic 24 watt PC lamp, 1- 50/50 24 watt PC lamp, 2 fans (that go on with the
day lamps), and 2 LEDs. The 10k, Actinic, and 50/50 are on two cords, and the
fans are separate, as are the LEDs. (This modification was done by
Nanotuners.com) A 50 watt heater, a power head, a stock pump, and occasionally
another small pump and another 50 watt heater for water changes/ top off. I
want to incorporate a GFCI, which would be fine with a regular power strip, but
the timers do not all physically fit on the strip. So my plan is this: Plug the
GFCI which has three outlets, and to two of the outlets, plug in a "power
squid". How safe will this be? Note: This will be the only thing plugged into
the outlet.
HTH - Graham T.>
Thanks,
Anthony
So no real answer there. Thanks for the quick response though, and an answer to
the original one. Now, I have another, clearer question- Will the single
outlet safely support this amount of electricity? Are you also setting up a
nano reef? (A great resource is Nano-reef.com ! if you haven't already been
there.)
Thanks!
Anthony
<Weird, here's what I have on file as sent:
Hi,
<Anthony, Graham T. here tonight.>
I am in the process of setting up a nano reef (an Oceanic Bio Cube 14), and as I
am sure you are aware, there are a lot of electrical cords!
<Indeed..>
I have four wires that need to be place<d> on timers (1 10k, 24 watt PC lamp, 1
actinic 24 watt PC lamp, 1- 50/50 24 watt PC lamp, 2 fans (that go on with the
day lamps), and 2 LEDs. The 10k, Actinic, and 50/50 are on two cords, and the
fans are separate, as are the LEDs. (This modification was done by
Nanotuners.com) A 50 watt heater, a power head, a stock pump, and occasionally
another small pump and another 50 watt heater for water changes/ top off. I want
to incorporate a GFCI, which would be fine with a regular power strip, but the
timers do not all physically fit on the strip. So my plan is this: Plug the GFCI
which has three outlets, and to two of the outlets, plug in a "power squid". How
safe will this be? Note: This will be the only thing plugged into the outlet.
<I see no problem with your plan at all, and was actually considering going that
route myself when I saw the "squid" for the first time last weekend at
RadioShack. A GFI is certainly an excellent addition for some piece of mind, and
an improvement over the typically used "overload" breaker in power strips. When
you are considering safety with extension cords, just remember Ohm's law: VOLTS
X AMPS = WATTS. Watts are what trip circuits and burn through insufficient
wiring. Actually, if you saw some of the daisy-chain power-bars I have worked on
under tanks with much more power than you are consuming... but I digress. A
typical "up to code" outlet/circuit is good for 15-20Amps @ 120VAC. ( 1800watts
) Whenever setting up a system on a new circuit, I like to go to the breaker
panel and flip the controlling breaker to find out how many other outlets are on
the same circuit. This will not affect the safety of your setup, rather it will
ensure that it doesn't trip said breaker when you are mixing/heating water.
HTH - Graham T.>
Thanks,
Anthony
...So, now I understand your position, and you mine. Odd, though.
-Graham T.>
Re: Electrical Safety-Need Advice again 1/21/07 Spam/Blocker software
troubles likely - 1/22/07
Ok, now this is getting very scary... not that it matters, but I am
still not getting what you typed- the two are identical (what I sent to you
and what you sent to me) probably my email acting oddly.... certainly
an enigma... Sorry about all the trouble, Thanks,
Anthony
<Hmm... how about you try reading my reply as posted on the Dailies here on WWM?
http://wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs3.htm
-Graham T.>
Much better! Excellent help from WWM as usual! Thanks!
<I wonder what all the errors are about with our server... x(
Glad I could be of service!
-Graham T.>
Graham T's Reply... V X A += W 1/23/07
Bob,
Believe Graham made a huge error in his reply to the electrical safety query.
He states,
"just remember Ohm's law: VOLTS X WATTS = AMPS. Amps are what trip circuits and
burn through insufficient wiring." If this were true, a one hundred watt light
bulb would draw 11,500 amps (115Vx100w)...WOW!
I'm sure, a typo here.
James
<I must not have read this... will find, fix, add your note, share w/ Graham.
BobF>
Graham T's Reply re e 1/23/07
Bob,
Believe Graham made a huge error in his reply to the electrical safety query.
He states,
"just remember Ohm's law: VOLTS X WATTS = AMPS. Amps are what trip circuits and
burn through insufficient wiring." If this
were true, a one hundred watt light bulb would draw 11,500 amps
(115Vx100w)...WOW!
I'm sure, a typo here.
James
<I must not have read this... will find, fix, add your note, share w/ Graham.
BobF>
<Bob, please post this on the dailies... I can't believe I missed that! Volts X
*AMPS* = Watts, or what I should've said was: Watts / Volts = Amps. I hope This
is seen by the person who posted the question. DOH! -GT>
Fish tank shocking me 12/1/06
<Hi Kevin, Mich here tonight.> I'm sorry to bother you two times in one month,
but I have a problem. I'm getting shocked when I touch the tank lamps. <Ahh
Houston, yes, you do have a problem, and a dangerous one at that!> It's hard to
explain, but I have a 48" current Satellite power compact lighting fixture. If
I touch the black casing or even the legs on my fixture, I get shocked. Or if I
touch the fixture with one hand and hit the glass canopy or even the top of
the tank where the top border goes around I get zapped. <Uhh, stop touching
it.> I totally took my light apart tonight to see if I found any loose wires,
but nothing. I believe the one ballast is bad, and that was the reason for my
prior email, but that's been blown for months, and I just got this shocking
problem today. Its definitely the light cause when I unplug it I don't get
shocked. As of right now its going to stay unplugged until I hear back from
you. <Good, remove it from your system before you are seriously injured.>
First of all are my fish in danger or are they getting shocked? <You and your
fish are in danger.> Everyone seems pretty much normal, with the exception of
my maroon clown hiding out behind the rocks lately, but he's still
feeding. Second what could be wrong with the lighting fixture? <I honestly do
not know, but it is not worth risking you life!> Honestly I'm ready to throw
the whole thing in the garbage, so hopefully you can help. <Please do not use
this fixture.> Thank you so much for your time. It's greatly appreciated. <You
are welcome, also, in the future please use proper capitalization.>
Kevin
Mitch.. Re: Fish tank shocking me 12/1/06
Mitch, <or Mich ...there are a few of us girls in the hobby too!>
<Hi Mark, Michelle here.>
I thought I'd send in my 2 cents worth here as I thought I had the same thing
happen to me. <Donations welcome.> As it turned out I actually had a short in
one of my pumps. I wish I new <or knew?> more on how to test for the short but I
had to do the same thing. After taking apart my light and not finding anything
wrong I just started unplugging everything I had one at a time until I didn't
get shocked anymore. I'd just hate to see someone through <or throw?> an
expensive light away just to find out that's not the problem. <Oh, I absolutely
agree. But our friend Kevin stated: "Its definitely the light cause when I
unplug it I don't get shocked." The light is replaceable, the life is not.>
Re: Electrical shock incident 12/6/06
Hi Michelle.
<Hi Kevin, glad to hear from you!>
Last week I sent an email about a lighting fixture that I was receiving shocks
from. Well anyway, I believe I found the source of all my problems. It turns
out the sleeve that protects the bulb in my UV light was cracked and filled up
with water.
<Yipe! Yipe! Yipe! That would cause a problem!>
Creating the shocking. I just wanted to let you know and thanks for the speedy
response.
<I am very happy you are ok. That was my biggest concern. I have a good friend
who was electrocuted, lost his arm and nearly his life. Electricity is nothing
to fool around with. Thank you for sharing the source of the problem. I am
always happy to learn. It is often difficult to trouble shoot with only written
descriptions. I appreciate your kind words and your feedback.>
Thank you so much WWM crew.
<You are quite welcome and thank you again for the follow-up! -Michelle>
Overheated Lighting Fixture...Dangerous Situation – 11/20/06
Hello Cam here again.
<<Hi there Cam!>>
I would like to thank you guys and girls for replying to all my previous
messages (except when I add a picture as an attachment, but I can understand,
bandwidth and all).
<<Am sure all would say you’re quite welcome>>
This might seem a bit weird, but I think my lights are fuming, because there is
a burning smell coming from my canopy’s (Jebo R119) light switch.
<<Mmm, not good...you may want to consider discontinuing use of this unit until
it can be checked out>>
I am a bit worried that the 2 new T5's (about 30W to 100W, can't remember the
actual amount of Watts) are too close together, about 5mm from each other, and
there is a risk that the T5's will explode or fracture, because of the heat.
<<I wouldn’t expect the bulbs being close together to be a problem. But...are
you using bulbs of differing wattages? The unit should specify which wattage
bulbs to use...if you are mixing/exceeding wattages this may be the problem>>
I also think that the wiring could be the culprit here.
<<...?>>
I have used normal security wiring.
<<Hmm, I’m a bit of a DIYer myself, but “security” wiring is not familiar to
me. I hope you aren’t referring to the “very light gauge wire” used to for some
security/alarm system connections, sometimes also referred to as “bell” wire, as
this is not appropriate for wiring an AC light fixture such as you have>>
The smell is coming from my light switches (on the left side of my canopy).
<<I think you should disconnect/replace this fixture>>
I also can't remember who the manufacturer of the T5's is, so please give me the
safest estimates (I have a small canopy (1200mm x 60mm x 60mm).
<<Estimates of what? The safest thing to do at this point is not use this
fixture>>
My real questions are:
1) What is the minimum recommended distance between T5 lights?
<<Shouldn’t be an issue>>
2) What sort of wiring should be used for T5's?
<<As a minimum, 14-guage copper...in my opinion (I am not a licensed
electrician)
3) Should I change the light switches to some that can take the heat or current
or is there no such thing as to much current when using digital/electronic
ballast?
<<If these switches came with the fixture they should not be heating up. You
need to have someone who is qualified to do so, assess the problem with this
fixture>>
I know that these questions seem a bit silly, but I am in quite a pickle here.
<<Not silly...and you have a potentially hazardous situation. I would stop
using this fixture and get it fixed or replaced immediately>>
Thank you so much for your time.
<<Happy to assist, EricR>>
Electrical Shock 10/14/06
Hi,
<Greetings>
I purchased a used tank set up including a Jebo UV sterilizer. It worked fine
for a while but then it started to shock me when I touched the tank.
<Yikes!>
Then it started to shock the water in the tank. It has a ground so I am confused
and don't know what to do about it. I went to the Jebo website and submitted a
letter, but it wouldn't go through. Can you help me with this? Thank you for
your time.
Joy
<I would continue to try to contact the manufacturer for their advice and
please…take out the sterilizer and don’t use it in the meantime. Cheers! – Dr.
J>
Metal Halide Voltage Question 10/11/06
Hey Everyone,
<Hello Matt>
Although I browse your site quite frequently, I've usually found what I was
looking for. I think I may have missed it in this case, but I'm curious. I've
been an employee and a manager of my LFS for quite some time, only recently
ending my employment to finish college. I have learned a great deal about this
hobby, and usually find myself giving advice to other people. I need the expert
help in this case. Over the years, I have installed many metal halide systems
and never gave it a passing thought. Until recently, when a friend of mind an
aquarium metal halide catch fire. Luckily, there was only superficial damage,
and nothing appears to be hurt in the aquarium, but it definitely could have
been a nightmare. So the question I have, as I investigate this, is.. what is
the output voltage and starting voltage for a metal halide (400W, 14000K, Mogul
w/ electronic ballast)? I know the input voltage is 115V, standard household,
but what I can't seem to find anywhere, is what the operating voltage is. I
don't need an exact, but it has to be more than 115V, otherwise a ballast
wouldn't be necessary.
<On a Venture, pulse start, 175 watt ballast, the typical open circuit voltage
reading would be between 240 and 290 volts, with nominal at 265 volts. It is
highly recommended to use a GFCI with these systems. For that matter, with any
aquarium lighting application.>
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Matt
Electrical generator figuring 9/26/06
Hi Crew. Due to all of your help and fine articles, all of my 4 FW aquariums
are now under control and nitrates are at 10 or less for 3 mos. now! Wow! I
thank you for your help. Now to a strange question that one of you might be able
to answer?
Our rural electricity goes out from time to time during bad storms and am about
to buy a gasoline generator for the winter months. I have no idea how many watts
I need for the following and hope you can give me some idea?
<Mmm, can "add up" the watts/wattage (volts, likely 120 maximum times rated
amps/amperage equals watts...) for each item as if all might be "on" at a
time... and get something with a capacity higher than this...>
A 29 gal. bow with emperor 280 and heater...A 75 gal. with two emperor 400's
with 2 -100 watt heaters...A 100 gal. with two emperor 400's with two 170 watt
heaters....All tanks kept at 78-80 deg. The 4th is a QT tank of 10gal. The
lighting is...29 gal. 20 watt fluorescent...75 gal. has two 40 watt fluorescents
and the 100 gal. has two 24in. 20 watt fluorescents. Do any of you have an
opinion on this? Thanks again...DR
<Likely the smallest of consumer units... something about 3,800 watts, will do
for you for your tanks here... You'll need more should you want to run large
electrical appliances (washer, stove)... Bob Fenner>
UPS and GFCI? - 09/14/06
Hi folks-
<Jake>
My fishy endeavours have led me to the realization during the
hurricane season here in the Carolina's I'd greatly prefer not to
have a wipeout of my 29G due to an electrical power loss. We
generally have a very stable power grid here except during the
season and the week or two of ice storms.
Last weekend I dug out my old APC Back-UPS 300 and purchased a new
battery for it. I promptly discovered while attaching the electrical
lifeblood of my tank that one of my magnetic drive Hagen powerheads
chattered something fierce while running on battery.
<Can>
I have two questions:
1) Do you think it would be OK to put my GFCI between the UPS and
the power strip feeding the tank?
<Mmm, I do think this will be okay>
I know it will have zero efficacy before the UPS, but am now
concerned about harmonics and the 'squarish' wave output affecting
it's efficacy.
<Should not be a factor... am given to understand that the basic
principle of these devices is electron "counting", not a measure of
wave differential>
2) My plan is to run only the Emperor 280 and one Hagen 30 175 GPH
powerhead on the UPS and split everything else off to a separate
strip.
<Good idea...>
I figure there is no need to run lighting, skimmer, etc. in
emergency situations.
<Mmm, not as much... but may need to add insulation, some source of
heat/ing>
I may run the skimmer for short periods for increased aeration only.
Does this make sense or should I simply run the filter?
<I'd measure the total amp-life capacity here and run as much as you
can for the supposed duration it may have to>
Another concern is during the winter months the heater will need to
run more often than usual as the tank is in my lab/home office which
normally is 27C due to all the computing equipment with the tank
holding steady at 78F. Ultimately power will be less of an issue
when I get out of this apartment and back into a house with a
planned 5KVA UPS for the room and a whole house generator.
<Wow!>
Time permitting, my plans are to dry-run the UPS tomorrow to check
the runtime under load. Charts be damned,
<Our sentiments agree here>
the only way to really know is to run under load. Somehow this all
smells of an upgrade to the UPS....
<Why oh why didn't I invest in the stocks of these companies when I
knew of their impending utility, likely sales volume? Booo hooooo!>
Thanks very much for the investment of your personal time, and the
invaluable information which the site provides us all.
Regards-
Jake
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: UPS and GFCI? 9/15/06
Thank you, Bob.
<Welcome Jake>
I agree that considering heating is critical and am still trying to
figure out how to calculate the requirements as the heater is 150W
but not on all the time.
<Mmm, best to set some sort of recording wattage meter on... average
per ambient temp., time...>
Unfortunately the UPS got a trial run before I had planned. I woke
up to it squawking yesterday and am not sure how long the power was
out. It
was running everything, chattering powerheads, lighting, heater, and
all, so it was not a valid test.
I plan to test it over the weekend now that the correct items are
plugged in and it has had time to recharge.
Yes I too wish I had purchased certain stocks in retrospect,
especially a little company by the name of Microsoft my IBM rep told
me about in the '80s for a mere $18.... hindsight....
<Or the Andy Grove beginnings of Intel... If memory serves 0.25
dollar a share in '73... or the 5k I could've given to Saul Price
(had I had it...) in 78 to be part of the original 100 investors in
CostCo.... or, or... BobF>
Thanks again.
Regards-
Jake
Re: UPS Query 9/15/06
Good morning Bob,
Was reading the query on the 5KVA Unregulated Power Supply this gent
is planning on using.
Wowsie is right. This translates, at 120 volts, to a current rating
of 41.6 amps.
<Yes... a whole lot of love, make that electrical power, for sure>
Wondering how this guy is going to protect this, since 20 amp
breakers are the largest you can put into one leg of the service.
<Likely more than one breaker, eh?>
He didn't mention, but I'm guessing this UPS he is considering must
have a primary voltage of 220.
Just thought I'd pass this along.
<Mmm, possibly...>
How was your trip, fun I'm sure. Wife and daughter are going to
Nassau this October. Dad is going to work to foot the bill, but my
daughter is paying the air fare. She must
be suffering from some sort of mental disorder:)
James
<Heeee! Are you finding work easier? I do hope so. BobF>
Re: UPS Query 9/18/06
Bob,
Just injecting into my recent email to you. See below.
James
<Hotay. B>
Re: UPS Query 9/15/06
Good morning Bob,
Was reading the query on the 5KVA Unregulated Power Supply this gent
is planning on using.
Wowsie is right. This translates, at 120 volts, to a current rating
of 41.6 amps.
<Yes... a whole lot of love, make that electrical power, for sure>
Wondering how this guy is going to protect this, since 20 amp
breakers are the largest you can put into one leg of the service.
<Likely more than one breaker, eh?>
<<If this is indeed a 120 volt system, two breakers can be used, but
is definitely a no no with the NEC. And, if the installer mounts a
breaker on
separate legs, the resulting voltage will be 220 volts...anyone for
smoked ribs? I'm pretty sure this subject unit has
to be a 220 volt primary input or this unit would not get a UL
approval. And, I strongly suggest the breaker be a GFIC type.>>
Fried shrimp... electrical leak in a marine system. Critically dangerous
7/26/06
Hey.
<Hay?>
I seem to have a problem with too much current in my water, and I don't mean
water current either!!
<Yikes>
Three days ago I noticed that my 2 normally very happy and active cleaner shrimp
and 1 peppermint shrimp were
staying very still. I watched them for a little while and saw them twitch and
spasm from time to time and act as if they were having trouble controlling their
movement. They responded to food, but instead of swimming directly to it they
would twitch and swim in circles. All my snails, hermits, starfish, and
numerous soft and LPS corals looked fine. I stuck my hand in the tank and
noticed a very very slight tingle only for a brief second as my hand first
entered the water.
<Very dangerous! You could be shocked... electrocuted...>
I believe that this is what caused the shrimp to act funny, because all other
testable water parameters seemed fine. Unfortunately I was on the way out the
door and going out of town for 3 days when all this happened. I tried
unplugging the filters, lights, heaters, etc. one by one testing for the tingle,
but after a short time I stopped noticing it all together. I unplugged the two
pumps I decided were most likely the problem and left. I just came back in to
town to find that one of the cleaners and peppermint shrimp are missing, I
believe the green starfish ate them
<Could have>
when they couldn't move, and the other cleaner shrimp is laying on his side and
still twitching. I moved him to another
tank while I try to solve this problem. I guess what I'm asking, and maybe I
should be talking to an electrician instead, is how can I measure such a slight
current in the water in order to pinpoint which appliance is faulty, multimeter??
<Mmm, likely a polarity or small ground problem here... but if you can't detect
it yourself, and cure... I would call an electrician. At any length I would wire
all these outlets to/through a G.F.I.:
http://wetwebmedia.com/gfcimarines.htm
and the linked files above>
What is the allowable amount, if any of watts, amps, of whatever in a reef
tank??
<Very small indeed... any detectable amount is deleterious>
How would this effect my fish?
<Shorten their lifespans, kill them...>
Luckily they were in a QT. Is this a common occurrence?? Any words of
advice?? Thanks in advance
Jon
<GFCIs... Water and electricity do not mix. Bob Fenner>
Lighting Question... extending wiring on/for MHs (Salty!) 7/14/06
Good day fine people!
<And to you>
Once again I turn to you for a little expertise that I seem to be lacking.
I am in the setup phase of my 200 GAL tank with 300 GAL fuge/sump/return in the
basement and have a quick question.
<Hotay!>
I want to remote my magnetic ballast for the 3x 175 W MH lights to the basement.
I am thinking that if I cut the existing cable between the ballast and the
lights and splice some 3 wire Romex cable in, there shouldn't be any problems,
but just wanted to run it by you fine folks to make sure I am not missing
something. If it matters, it will be about 30' from the ballast to the lights.
<Mmm... am going to send this response to our resident "electrician",
Salty/JamesG... If it were me, mine, I would NOT do this, but instead contact
the actual manufacturer, ask for their input, and if they're amenable, buy new
cable from them... follow their directions re re-terminating the connections...>
Thanks for your time and all you do for our hobby (sickness ;-) )
<Mmmm... Well... do perhaps wait on Salty's go here as well... I'm just too
concerned re the gauge of wire over the run here, the implications of
overheating, possible fire and electrical shock hazard. Bob Fenner>
Re: Lighting Question... extending wiring on/for MHs (Salty!)
7/15/06
Good day fine people!
<And to you>
Once again I turn to you for a little expertise that I seem to be lacking.
I am in the setup phase of my 200 GAL tank with 300 GAL fuge/sump/return in the
basement and have a quick question.
<Hotay!>
I want to remote my magnetic ballast for the 3x 175 W MH lights to the basement.
I am thinking that if I cut the existing cable between the ballast and the
lights and splice some 3 wire Romex cable in, there shouldn't be any problems,
but just wanted to run it by you fine folks to make sure I am not missing
something. If it matters, it will be about 30' from the ballast to the lights.
<Mmm... am going to send this response to our resident "electrician",
Salty/JamesG... If it were me, mine, I would NOT do this, but instead contact
the actual manufacturer, ask for their input, and if they're amenable, buy new
cable from them... follow their directions re re-terminating the connections...>
Thanks for your time and all you do for our hobby (sickness ;-) )
<Mmmm... Well... do perhaps wait on Salty's go here as well... I'm just too
concerned re the gauge of wire over the run here, the implications of
overheating, possible fire and electrical shock hazard. Bob Fenner>
<<Extending the wire length is not recommended, but not for overheating, as this
can be overcome by using a larger gauge wire. The problem we have here is the
extremely high starting voltage of the lamps, some as much as 4000 volts (low
current). Extending the length of wire 30 feet (with standard #14 Romex) will
more than likely cause a voltage drop in start-up which will lead to shortened
bulb life due to longer start times, if the lamp even starts at all. This will
all depend on the VA capacity of the start circuit transformer being used in the
ballast. Romex is definitely a no-no as the insulation on this wire is not
rated for that kind of starting voltage, and leakage can/will occur and could
lead to electrical shock. I ditto Bob's suggestion of contacting the
manufacturer re this before doing, and get information on proper wire size and
type, warranty considerations, feasibility of doing such, etc. James (Salty
Dog)>>
<Thanks for this Big J! BobF>
Digital Timers - 05/10/06
Hi,
<<Hello>>
The cheap mechanical timer I'm currently using hasn't been very
reliable. So I'm looking for a good quality digital one.
<<Good move>>
I've found the Newtek 8-outlet Power strip and 24 Hour Digital Timer. My
question is, do you know if this is a quality product?
<<Don't know...have seen it, but am not familiar with it>>
If not, what do you recommend?
<<I use 'Intermatic' digital timers from Lowe's or Home Depot. They've
proven very reliable for me...and using one per, are/seem more versatile
than the power strip timer you describe (limited
availability/differential of "timed" outlets). But if the
power strip
timer suits your needs it is probably the less expensive alternative>>
Thanks, Greg
Re: Coral Catsharks... electrical, ray comp. 5/4/06
Hi again. This is the last time i will bother you I swear.
<Heee! Be careful what you promise...>
I was just wondering if a grounding probe would be a good idea for a shark tank.
<Mmm, no... as stated, this is more likely to induce electrical potential than
solve such issues in an otherwise properly equipped, set-up system>
As I stated before I have 3 pumps and a heater along with the lights and the 2
Emperor filters.
<These are hopefully grounded, wired through GFI's>
I have read that these things can cause some electric current in the water and
this will of course disturb the sharks senses.
<Would if not...>
I'm not sure if there is any current in the tank, and not sure how to test for
it.
<... then study>
From my understanding the grounding probe will take away all the electric
current in the tank they may be harmful to the sharks. I just want
to make my aquarium as pleasing as possible for my sharks so they have a long
life and hopefully breed. In your opinion what is the best food to feed them?
<Isn't this how we started? This is posted (to the extent of my knowledge at
least) on WWM>
How often should I feed these particular sharks and how much? Thank you so much
for the replies. You have helped me out tremendously with your
responses. I do believe this will be the last help I need.
<No...>
Oh one last thing, if my goal is to breed these sharks, should I have them in
the tank be themselves. Would it be possible to put a yellow stingray in the
tank
with them, and still have the sharks breed. Thank you.
<This system is not large enough for a jamaicensis... Bob Fenner>
Electrical Shock/Dancing Aquarist 4/21/06
Hello, <Howdy> I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on
what could be the cause of every time I put my hand in my refugium I get a jolt
of
electricity.
<You are acting as part of the return path of the circuit, hopefully you will
not be the complete path.> I have a 180-gallon with a 40-gallon refugium below
using a
dolphin 800 to return water back to the tank and a mag7 to drive my ev180
skimmer. Last week i had somewhat of a flood and after everything was pretty
dry i plugged everything back in but ever since the flood the refugium has been
shocking me. If you guys could offer any advice it would be greatly
appreciated do you think it has something to do with the outlet being moist
<Do remove the receptacle cover and point a fan toward it and allow to air dry.>
and it is not acting as a ground?
<My friend, if you enjoy life on this earth, do put a GFIC receptacle in place
of the receptacle you are now using. If not, you have already been on this
earth
longer than you are probably going to stay. Please do a spelling/grammar check
in future queries. All “i”s should be in caps. James (Salty Dog)>
MH lighting fire...!!! - 03/25/2006
Hello WWM Crew, <Hi Rori - Tim answering your question today!>
Tonight disaster struck!!! I love my fish tank and have been a reef tank
hobbyist now for about 5 years, but tonight my fish tank SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF
ME!!!! I do not know what to do??? My wife and I were sitting watching T.V. when
all of a sudden we both smelt a plastic burning smell that got pretty strong. We
started looking around the house because it smelled like something plastic was
on fire!!! Then I walked into the fish room and the room was filled with
smoke!!! It turned out one of my ballast to my Coral Life HQI's was smoking
pretty badly. Now I'm not talking about a little smoke I'm talking there was a
fire going on inside the case of the thing and smoke was pouring out of it, and
it filled the room with black smoke. Now I am so scared thinking about what
would of happened if I wouldn't have been home, my house could of burned down!
Another thing I don't understand is I am very cautious when it comes to building
something. I have these ballast bolted to my stand with a dedicated fan blowing
right on them. Also I have a circuit protector that will shut everything off if
anything goes wrong. Looks like none of this stuff helped out, I honestly think
that if I was not home it would of started a fire, and it would of eventually
turned into a electrical fire. I am debating now if this is worth the risk. I am
so disappointed that I spent so much money on these Coral Life 150 Watt HQI's
and they fail like this. I will be contacting them about this situation I have
run into. In the mean time I have all the lights turned off in the tank due to I
am scared the other two ballast are going to catch fire like this one did. So
now my corals are in the dark for now??? Any advice what would you do in this
situation??? Anxiously awaiting your helpful response on what I can do??? Thank
You!!! P.S. I took the ballast apart and in the case where the actual round
ballast is inside is all swollen looking and melted inside!!! <That is very
concerning indeed! Do contact the company and include in your correspondence
very detailed information on your current set up so that they may identify any
problems with your arrangement. Also do a search through online forums - to my
knowledge, this is not a common occurrence but there is of course the
possibility of a bad batch of ballasts - in which case you may be saving many
other aquarists from potential disaster! Try to find out exactly what caused
this - and please do keep us informed so that we may warn others of this
situation! In the meantime, you will need to take care of your livestock. Make
sure that you do a number of considerable water changes - I am concerned that
some of the smoke may have become dissolved in the aquarium water and can
potentially cause significant harm. Your corals will need light or they will not
survive for long - I would suggest, if you are presently unable to comfortably
provide them with adequate lighting (your situation being completely
understandable) then I would suggest contacting a fellow reef keeper or your LFS
to see if either will hold your corals until you can rectify your lighting
situation. The same applies to your fish, although clearly these are less
dependant on light for their survival. Keep a close eye on your fish as the
stress of this incident may cause disease outbreak. As I said, please keep us
informed as to your findings! Thank you and wishing you the very best of luck!>
UV and stray voltage... Trouble
Hi,
I just recently installed a 80w Current USA Gamma UV on my 220g marine
tank. After installing it I noticed that my Pinpoint PH probe would no longer
get a steady reading.
<... you have an electrical "leak"... bridged contacts, perhaps a cracked
sleeve...>
It would vary drastically and caused my to believe that it was possibly stray
voltage from the UV.
<Yes, likely so>
I know they read positively charged hydrogen ions and thought that maybe
electricity was altering it. Well, I unplugged the UV (it was on a separate
outlet) and the PH probe began to read normally. I haven't plugged the UV up
since and was trying to find some information on what the problem could be, and
if it is harmful?
<Potentially... very. To your livestock, you>
Do UV's normally alter PH probe readings?
<Mmm, will elevate them slightly over time...>
What can I do to ensure its not harming my livestock? The fish in my tank acted
normally for the few hours it was on. Also, I've tried emailing Current USA but
have yet to receive a response. Do you know of a tech support number they might
have?
Thanks,
Brandon
<I would remove this unit, carefully take it apart, dry all, re-lube the
compression fittings for the lamp/sleeve, use silicon lube on the contact
pins... put it back on, plug-in and see if this corrects the stray voltage...
AND I would definitely plug this (and all other electrics) through a GFI/GFCI
device. Bob Fenner>
Re: UV and stray voltage... USE the GFI!
Thanks for the reply. Well after sending the email, I found a contact number
for the manufacturer and they said this was very normal. I explained that the PH
probe was not just varying slightly, but was erratically moving back and forth
to abnormal readings (ex.8.8-7.3).
<... pH is the negative log (base 10) of hydrogen ion concentration... this is a
huge variance...>
The tech support guy said that this is common and that the UV light attracts
ions toward the unit altering the probes ability to get a steady reading. He
advised me to plug this unit back up and install a grounding probe if I wanted
my PH probe to work properly.
<? A grounding probe? For what purpose?>
He sounded like a trust worthy source. I spoke with two other people before I
finally spoke to someone competent about my situation. But it still makes me
wonder. I don't feel any type of shock when I stick my hands in the water. I'm
going to try your advice and make sure its installed properly. But what if it
still reads erratically? I also plan to use grounding probe. I have a GFCI that
contains three prongs, that I can also hook the UV to. I know this device
protects against shock and electrocution, but how will it prevent stray voltage
from flowing into the tank?
<... These devices "count" the flow of current/numbers of electrons if you will,
coming and going... as in sixty times a second (Hertz) from and to the two wires
in the circuit... if this number varies just a little, the circuit will be
interrupted (shut off) by the GFI... if the electricity is flowing elsewhere...
as in through you to ground, the GFI will shut off the power>
Will it just reset, if there is some type of leakage?
<...? No... has to be manually re-set... Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Brandon
<I would contact a real electrician or ask an electrical engineer for "real"
advice here.>
Re: UV and stray voltage 1/16/06
Thanks again for the response. But now I'm really confused. I guess I just
really want to know, what I'm supposed to do to insure that the UV is hooked up
properly.
<Uhh...>
I know that it causes my PH monitor to read erratically.
Not slowly over time, but it makes irregular readings skipping multiple tenths
at a time (ex.8.3 then to 8.56 then to 7.93, all in a matter of seconds).
<Mmm, yes...>
The company tech said this is normal, and that the UV attracts or disperses
ions, causing the Pinpoint PH probe to not get a clear reading.
<... no...>
He said that he fixes this by placing a titanium grounding probe in the tank.
And that he had just recently done this on an octopus tank he had set up.
<Think... such probes... are grounds, electrical... but not designed to make
large voltage potential run-offs... your wet feet might be a better route...>
I hooked the UV up to a GFCI plug and experienced the same problem with the PH
monitor. I thought that maybe if the UV was causing stray voltage that the GFCI
would reset or automatically turn off.
<Danger Will Robbins!>
But it functioned properly.
<It did not shut off?>
I've checked to make sure the unit and bulbs are installed right, and they are.
I guess my question to you is, short of never running the UV, how do I insure
that UV is not slowly leaking voltage into my tank? I never feel anything when I
stick my hand in the tank, and I know that the signs to my livestock are not
immediate, and their health will just slowly dwindle with time. So is there
anything I can do to insure myself that my livestock are not being slowly
tortured? I'm sorry for nagging you so much, but this is nagging me a lot worse
knowing the potential consequences.
Thanks,
Brandon
<Please re-read my last email to you... Seek/get professional electrical help.
Bob Fenner>
MH v Fluorescents, power consumption 1/10/06
Hi WWM Crew, <Hello Steve>
I was reading one of the FAQ's when I came across a minor mistake and thought I
would correct it. The WWM crew was asked if 150 watts of MH consumed the same
amount of power as 150 watts of fluorescents and the answer was yes a watt
equals a watt which is true but watts = amps x volts and a 150 watt MH light
will consume more power or energy whilst supplying the same amount of watts,
i.e.. more amps. The extra power is dissipated as heat from the ballast.
<This particular answer may be dated. The efficiency (power factor) of a system
depends on the ballast. Electronically regulated ballasts will be more
efficient than a tar ballast and so on. This will also relate to light intensity
somewhat. On a 48" tank, two 150 watt HQI's are going to be more effective than
400 watts of fluorescents and generate less heat into the tank. So now we are
looking at light intensity versus wattage being used. More than just watt for
watt has to be considered here.>
I hope this helps, regards, Steve. <I hope this helps also. James (Salty Dog)>
Stray Electricity - 12/15/2005
Hello,
<Hi Brian.>
I recently installed a light (Dual Satellite Compact Fluorescent Fixtures) and
realized today that when I touch the water, it gives me a small shock (not worse
than licking a 9 volt battery).
<Whoa...that's not cool. Are your fish exhibiting any stress? Watch for changes
in their behavior.>
I also have a protein skimmer, submersible heater, and carbon filter. Do you
think it's possible that the new light is causing it, or do you know how to
figure it out if it's the light or something else. After all, the light is
standing on plastic legs a good 4 inches above the rim of the tank so I wouldn't
think it would be causing it. Is there much of a chance of shorting the light or
causing fire?
<If something is letting out enough electricity for you to feel it when you
touch the water, then it's likely that this could get worse. Something is
probably not grounded correctly or there's a slight tear/gouge in a cord (just
enough to clear the insulation). You'll have to check all. If it's as noticeable
as it sounds it should be as easy as unplugging each piece (one at a time) and
checking the water with a voltage meter. As for repair of the piece when located
I would contact the manufacturer.>
Brian
<Josh>
Re: Stray Electricity 12/17/05
Hello again,
<Hi Brian.>
I checked everything and couldn't find anything. It stopped shocking me though.
<Was this after you messed with the plugs? Any salt creep on or around them?>
Could I simply have too many things plugged into the wall?
<Would most likely trip the breaker in that case.>
I have my protein skimmer, filter, three lights and their fan, and the heater
plugged into one outlet (as in only one of the two sets prong holes are used
because of the surge protector).
<I don't think that's it. Is your surge protector the right rating? I wouldn't
just let this go. It's happened once and you don't know why. What's to stop it
happening again? Did you check each unit as well, not just the cords? Look for
any cracks or loose casings. Is your surge protector mounted up off the floor?
Any salt creep around the outlet itself? How old is the wiring of your house?>
Also, the only thing I've noticed weird is that my Clownfish, who seems
perfectly fine, has taken a strange liking to my Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp, letting
him frequently clean him (which I doubt is a result, but shouldn't it only clean
bigger fish)?
<Well that would just be discrimination!.>
Brian
<Josh>
Counter for electrical use 10/19/05
Hi, <Steven>
I have a sump pump that plugs into a 110V outlet. I want to be able to
tell how many times it turns on in a month, year, etc.
Is there a box of sorts that plugs into the wall and receives the pump
cord and then turns a counter every time there is current draw? <Not to my
knowledge. You'd have to DIY with a 110V counter. There is one available that
monitors kilowatt usage to help you forecast electrical costs for this
pump. Also monitors voltage, line frequency and power factor. This unit is
called "Kill A Watt". I believe www.drsfostersmith.com sells them at around
$35.00 bucks. James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you,
Steven
Grounding probe. Good or bad? <Mostly just unnecessary> 08/08/2005
Greetings Bob & Crew!
<Yawn!>
An online forum (yes, I read others besides yours.....but WWM starts out my
day!) had the following thread posted on grounding probes. Just wanted your
opinion on it. Thanks. -Ray
"Adding a ground to solve the problem of electricity leaking into the water is
not the right to go. It may save the owner from being shocked, but it will make
things worse for the tank inhabitants.
The problem is not the voltage level of the tank, but current flowing through
its occupants. Just as birds perched on a high voltage hydro wire don't notice
their bodies are 27,000 volts above ground potential, the same is true in an
aquarium. If one appliance is leaking electricity, but there are no paths to
ground (a glass or acrylic tank is a very good electrical insulator), then no
current will flow, and the fish would not know that they were not at ground
potential.
<Mmm, other (grounded) gear... the hobbyists themselves... can act as
grounds...>
Thus everything will be fine until a grounded electrode is placed in
the tank. Now AC current will flow between the bad appliance and the ground.
This is how people are electrocuted in a bathtub when a radio or hair drier
plugged into the wall falls in.
<Yes>
Current flows between the appliance
and the drain pipe (which is a good ground). If the victim's heart is in the
path of enough current flow, it will stop beating.
<Possibly>
Since the conductivity of salt water is much higher than tap water, it would
probably be harder to electrocute marine fish. The fish will not enjoy
the current passing through its body though. Long term exposure to
even minute currents is probably not good.
<Correct>
On the flip side of this, the electrode grounding the tank will protect the
owner better, because most leaking current will flow through the electrode
(the least resistive path) and not the owner.
<Yes>
The solution to the electrified tank problem is to find out which components
are the culprits and repair or replace them.
<Definitely so>
I think it would be a good idea for owners to periodically check their tanks for
electrical leakage. The easiest way to do this is to put a voltmeter (AC)
between the water and ground (a good electrical ground - e.g. wall socket
ground).
If you get a reading of more than a few volts, I would worry.
<Agreed here too>
I don't think it is necessary to set up an elaborate system to
protect you and your fish from electrical malfunctions. Hopefully it is rare
that a component leaks electricity into the tank.
<Is indeed exceedingly rare nowadays. Much of what folks measure is induced
current... pushing a charged object (seawater) in space creates current... and
vice versa>
A shock from a fish tank
would not likely be fatal, but if it is strong enough, it will cause
an uncontrollable desire to remove one's arm from the tank as rapidly as
possible. This is where serious injury and damage to the tank / hood etc. could
occur.
<Good point>
If you want to make a shock-proof tank, hook all accessories that could possibly
cause a problem to GFI sockets (Ground Fault Interrupters). Then hook an
electrode from the water to one of the GFI ground terminals. If anything
begins to leak, the corresponding GFI will cut off power."
<This is generally so... an exception are fluorescent lighting systems with
secondary circuits. Bob Fenner>
Chilly Betta and stray voltage 07/01/05
Does anyone no of any heater that can be used in a .75-1 gallon,
(a little under a gallon) desktop tank.
<Yes. Hydor Products.>
I bought this one which was rated
for 2-5 gallon tanks. The box stated the heater would only raise the temp.
2-5 degrees but it raised by beta's bowl/vase to about 90 degrees.
<You need a small wattage unit that is thermostatic, likely external...>
I ordered a small desktop aquarium with a filter which measures 6x6x8". I
want to be able to keep him a little warm since the building operator
knows how to crank the air conditioning. Thank goodness for us but not for
Delta, (my work beta buddy). Know of any products?
<Look for Hydor, dealers on the Net>
Like I said the only
one I've found is the flat one which made the water way too hot.. Any
other suggestions would be appreciated as well.
P.S. A bigger aquarium is also out of the question. My boss is being nice
as it is with what I have.
While I'm here, one more question, if it's all right..... Is there
any way to check for stray voltage. I think one of the devices in my 54
gallon saltwater might be giving off juice. Thank You as always. Enjoy the
fourth and have a safe holiday.
-Heather
<There are a few methods... there are stray potential meters... Might be better
here to have an actual electrician out to check rather than buy the gear
yourself... and to seek out, install a grounding device. Bob Fenner>
Re: Chilly Betta <with two "t's">
Bob,
The Hydor product is the one which I used last time which made the
bowl way too hot... (90+degrees), it was the flat one which is rated for
small bowls. The heater is only rated for 2 gallons and up. Anything i can
do for a bowl 1 gallon or less? Maybe position the heater somewhere else,
(you said something about externally)
<Yes... the outside... should provide sufficient thermal insulation to make this
unit useful here>
or use a 6" heater rated for 10 Ga.
and above?
<No... too many watts>
I'm sure there are many others out there like me with cold
bettas in smaller tanks, so is there anything we can do? Also about the
stray voltage.. I can't really afford to hire an electrician so are there
any ways to find stray voltage in the water otherwise?
<Yes... but am hesitant to suggest your not hiring a professional... depending
on 1) whether there is actually an electrical leak, or 2) the source thereof,
there may be a real potential hazard here. At the very least I suggest you wire
in or between a GFI circuit. Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gfcimarines.htm>
Or, should I just
turn one piece of equipment off at a time for a month or so, to see if my
fish get better? Once again Thanks for you time. Hope you all had a nice
holiday.
-Heather
<... do you have a low voltage meter? A neighbor who has one, an understanding
of electricity? Bob Fenner>
GFCI problem <James go>
Thanks for your reply. I tried another GFCI strip, still no good. I tried
plugging the light fixture into kitchen hard-wired GFCI and it tripped it off
too. I think it is the fixture itself and am working to replace it. Do you
have any critique of Coralife Aqualight Power Compact, or perhaps just random
bad luck? <I'd say you have a defective fixture.> I understand if you would
rather not promote or criticize a specific brand, though. Just trying to get
EVERYTHING straight before I fill the tank for the first time, even though I'm
sure I'll find more surprises along the
way.
Have you heard of a product called "grunge" and if you like it where can you
get it? <Have heard of it and from what I read, it sounds OK. Here's the GARF
page you can read. http://search.hp.netscape.com/hp/boomframe.jsp?query=Garf&page=1&offset=0
&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D426c4dc29d120acf%26clickedI
temRank%3D1%26userQuery%3DGarf%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.garf.org%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DHPResults%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_
url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garf.org%2F
Thanks again. Rich. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Electrical woes <Bobs go>
Thanks for your reply. I tried another GFCI strip, still no good. I tried
plugging the light fixture into kitchen hard-wired GFCI and it tripped it off
too.
<Yikes... you have a bad connection somewhere... dangerous>
I think it is the fixture itself and am working to replace it. Do you
have any critique of Coralife Aqualight Power Compact, or perhaps just random
bad luck?
<Is this a new fixture? I would send it back to the manufacturer>
I understand if you would rather not promote or criticize a specific
brand, though.
<I will/do gladly recommend, damn what I please. There are some good lines, some
shams in the trade... this is a good product from a fine company>
Just trying to get EVERYTHING straight before I fill the tank
for the first time, even though I'm sure I'll find more surprises along the
way.
Have you heard of a product called "grunge" and if you like it where can you
get it?
<This product is of the "sham" category... made by (with a hammer and old live
rock) by the excitable folks at GARF... Bob Fenner>
Thanks again. Rich.
Aquarium Surge Protection
Dear Bob,
<Joe>
I wanted to thank you for posting some of my e-mail's on your web-site forum:
<Thank you>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elecmarfaqs2.htm
I just received a phone call regarding our units, and he indicated that he was referred to Zero Surge via your web-site. Also, I understand that you
will be speaking at the upcoming MACNA conference in Sept. location is in northern VA. Zero Surge will be an exhibitor (Booth # 37) at the
conference and would welcome the opportunity to meet you.
<Ahh, look forward to it. Bob Fenner>
Once again, thank you.
Regards,
Joe Nocella
Director of Sales
jnocella@ZeroSurge.com | 800-996-6696 Voice | 908-996-7773 Fax
Who's Reply to a Heated Question? Who's Replying Now?
Thank you for your reply,
<Wasn't me! (hehe seen rocket man?)>
One question more, can I do more than guess of how much power an aquarium heater uses?
<Sure can, because you can bet your electricity provider isn't>
I can calculate the filter and light fairly easily. But the heater it doesn't stay all the time soooo...whether
it's just one fish tank or a whole fish room with 40 tanks I've heard of pennies a month to 25 cents a
day. I know it's a fuzzy question, my house could be colder than this house and varying from a
Nevada summer to a Boston winter that could be quite a bit. Maybe some numbers I could crunch, like the average room temp of 70 degrees
and a 10 gallon aquarium with a 50 watt heater would be about 2 dollars a month or 50 cents or whatever
kilowatt hour that I could then convert to cash? Sorry to ramble on, can you give me a hand?
And funny thing - for a fish room with many tanks, some people hype controlling the
room's thermostat, some multiple heaters are the cheapest way to go, besides initial cost of buying all those heaters, central
filtration aside. Any thoughts?
<Determining the cost if it was run constantly is easy - contact your electrical provider and ask them how much they charge per kilowatt hour. Since kilo = 1000, 50 watts would be 1\20th of this quote, every hour. The best way to measure the actual kilowatt hours used (because as you stated, it isn't running constantly) would be to obtain a
watt-hour meter, available from a hardware store, or at www.liveaquaria.com (and it's so cutely name the "Kill-a-watt meter). As for determining whether individually heating a tank or using an external air conditioner instead, it all depends on the amount of tanks, the building size, insulation, outside air temperatures, etc. As you can see, the problem with determining the costs will be the variables. I would use the meter on your house provided by your electrical company to determine this. On a small scale operation, individual heaters will be MUCH more economical. By the way, please use proper caps\punctuation when emailing us in the future, as this email will be archived for others to read>
Thanks again as I continue to research,
Jonathan
<Very interesting question, was fun to answer. For an absolutely great\hilarious book on electricity, I highly recommend 'There are no electrons' by Ken Amdahl>
Killer Via Aqua Heater!
Last night, I went to feed the pods in our refugium and got a shock - literally! You could feel the electricity (pain through your fingers). The culprit - a less than one year old Via Aqua Stainless Steel heater. Rust had leached out of the end cap (a gob about an inch
wide) and it was shooting electricity through the sump!!! $100 worth of Copepods we added last week that were flourishing one day earlier were all dead, along with the Amphipods! Luckily the refugium was running off a powerhead and not yet connected to the new tank!!!
<Yeeikes!>
A few questions:
1) We removed the heater (of course) complete with it's attached "rust ball" and changed the water out. The pods are definitely dead (most floating). The
Caulerpa and Chaeto look fine.
Do we need to change out the mud substrate before we attach it to the main tank because of the rust and whatever else may have leached out of that
<expletive deleted whaa!> piece of junk - Via Aqua heater?
<I would leave these as is. More likely than not ferrous metal has "settled out"... I would however add a pad of "PolyFilter" in your filter flow path>
2) Do you know the Via Aqua manufacturer or website (we couldn't find it). Not that it will do any good, but we would like to inform them of this mess.
<I do know the company... Commodity Axis: http://www.commodityaxis.com/Home.aspx>
3) We are going to trash our other Via Aqua Stainless heater too and would like to warn your other saltwater readers about this potential disaster waiting to happen! Thanks in advance!
<Please do contact the company, mail them your heaters.... you could very well save other people's lives. Bob Fenner> More than a shocking situation
I work at a fish shop and there are surge protectors that hold a lot of our
pumps for the protein skimmers and such they have quite a bit of salt on
them and are usually damp I cant work under the tanks with the plugs without
getting shocked any tips or ideas?
<Yes... do NOT go anywhere near these outlets... turn all off, have a licensed
electrician and/or electrical engineer come and trouble shoot your store... have
them make a working plan for duplex or quad outlets mounted on the wall... above
the tanks... and have all circuits wired through GFCI's... Not just the
livestock's lives depend on this... Bob Fenner>
Titanium grounding rod DANGER!
Bob,
<James>
Just something I'd like to pass on to you should a question arise on the www. Do
encourage people NOT to use these things.
<I don't, and never have>
They are a potentially very dangerous item to have in the aquarium. A friend of
mine decided to pull his grounding rod out of the tank to clean
the algae off it. Unknowingly, he had a powerhead that was electrically
defective as far as insulation goes. Well, he grabbed the rod in one hand
and had the other hand in the water, and presto, since he was connected directly
to earth ground he got quite a jolt which caused his arm to go numb for some
time and also created nervous twitches for about a week.
Regards,
James (Salty Dog)
<Yeeikes! Bob F>
- Ice Storm Power Loss -
We had a huge ice storm here which cut power to over 150,000 people...
basically our entire town. <No fun... have been through a couple of these.>
I had no power, nor a generator for 5 days. We had to leave the house due to
the extreme cold.
Coming home today, as expected, everything in the saltwater tank is dead.
All I can try to do now is salvage the live rock, if possible. After running my
tank for 5 years, with little hitches, I'm faced with a problem. Should I look
at the live rock NOW as basically uncured and try to salvage it by attempting to
cure it with a heater etc outside the tank? <I'd cure it in the tank, might as
well let all settle back in together.>
The stench is tremendous... mostly from the die off of the live rock, I think.
<Quite likely.> I'd like to try and save what I can, any thoughts? <Well...
what's to save? I mean the rock itself will be starting from scratch. I'd run
some activated carbon in your filtration system to get rid of the smell, and
then get a couple of new pieces of live rock to re-seed the rock in the tank.
Would let all cure in the tank... I'm assuming you have a protein skimmer.
Things will make a comeback. Sorry to hear of your losses, but much better that
you and your family are safe. Cheers, J -- >
Ultimate low power consumption saltwater aquarium
Greetings Wetweb crew,
I have accepted the challenge of designing my new home
to run entirely on solar power at the urging of my
wife.
<Great! Have seen a marine enthusiast's home here in San Diego that made this
investment... some days their electrical meter runs backward! The f/utility pays
them back to the extent of their charges!!!>
In researching the possibilities I was faced
with either giving up my reef-keeping hobby, or
finding a way to make it work with a 12 volt DC
electric system. I am sharing some of my plans with
the hope of getting constructive criticism.
<Mmm, there are inverter technologies... to change to 120 V AC>
I currently have a 20 in. deep 37.5 gallon soft
coral reef set up. I am planning on running 2 pumps
with a sumpless set up. One pump will power a custom
H.O.T. protein skimmer of my own design, while the
other will provide water movement within the aquarium.
I am contemplating using small 12 volt boat bilge
pumps to accomplish the above tasks.
<These pull/use a BUNCH of amps... do more research here>
Lighting is a bit more tricky however. I was
originally considering using power compact lighting,
but it is going to use way too much electricity.
Instead I have decided to look into using light
emitting diodes (LEDs) to light the aquarium.
<A "wave of the future">
I have
acquired some extremely bright white LEDs for testing.
In some initial tests the LEDs seem to be the perfect
solution. They produces a very blue color light
somewhat similar to 50/50 lighting. They emit almost
no noticeable heat, and when aimed through a rippling
surface they produce much desirable reflections
similar to metal halide. The "bulb" life is estimated
around 100,000 hours. I am beginning to wonder why one
would light an aquarium with anything else.
<Mainly the current challenges of "quality"... Take a look here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/lighting/index.htm>
With that
said, I am planning on building a lighting hood with
an array of 100 super bright white LEDs. If anyone has
attempted this before please advise on results.
<There are a few folks, companies working on LED's for aquarium use... their
data is not public domain>
Based
on my initial calculations this array should use
around 680ma at 12 volts, perfect for use on a 12 volt
DC system. I am estimating the light production of
this array to be similar to two 55w power compacts,
which is what has been lighting my soft coral tank
happily for several years. After I build the lighting
system I will test it, and write an article based on
my findings.
<Maybe get a PAR meter... study up re CRI, incandescence... need intensity AND
temperature similar to the wild>
With filtration, water movement, and lighting
taken care of, I need to focus my attention to
temperature control. With recent power outages caused
by hurricanes I have been fortunate (or not) to have
the opportunity to monitor my aquarium's temperature
with no air conditioning or heating running. In the
heat of summer for an eight day stretch with no
additional heat from lighting, my aquarium maintained
a temperature range of 74-78 degrees, coldest at
around 4:30 am and hottest around 1:30 pm.
<Yes... water is the standard for "heat"...>
Normally, I
would run a heater to keep it around 78 constant and
my central air offsets the heat from my power
compacts. My problem is I have not come up with a good
method of heating on a 12 volt system. Most aquarium
heaters are designed for large amperage high wattage
alternating current. I need some suggestions on
heating water on 12 volts, safe enough for my
aquarium's population. If anyone knows of a good DC
submersible water heater please advise. I might just
have to have something custom made.
<Look into "heat exchangers"... there are means (esp. for large volumes) to
"take" heat from/to the air...>
That about wraps up my ideas on solar powered
aquariums at the moment. If anyone is interested, I
will send updates on my progress. If I have overlooked
anything important please advise, also know I am only
in the early stages of planning this project.
Thanks
-Randy
<Bob Fenner, who has been involved in such challenges in putting up collecting
facilities in out of way places... Start looking into deep cycle (marine)
batteries... You're soon to be an investor.>
Re: Ultimate low power consumption saltwater aquarium -suggestion, LEDs
Bob, I was reading about this man trying to light his soft coral tank with
LED's. There are a few tanks which use them on the nano-reef.com forums!
www.nano-reef.com/forums is the address, a simple search is all that is needed
here.
So far I think the tanks have been running good. Also, I believe there is a
step by step in one of the threads, so.... If he needs help wiring them up, It's
all there for him.
Hope that helps
Daniel Babcock.
<LEDs are indeed going to "hit the aquarium market" soon... as you had stated,
due to low operating costs (electricity, replacement of fixture). They have the
intensity (have seen a million candle power unit in operation), and issues of
other aspects of light quality are being worked out. Bob Fenner>
120 volt waterproof electrical outlet
Do you know where I can purchase 120 volt waterproof electrical outlet?
<Mmm, there are degrees of waterproofedness... from some duplex outlets that
have plastic covers of sorts to cover over, ward against splash, spray from
sprinklers, rain... to junction boxes that are filled with "bedding
material" and sealed with a plate... Might I ask what the application is
here? Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Michael A. Miller
Con Edison of New York
Aquarium Surge Protector
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<Joe>
I read your article on "Electricity & The Aquarium Garden" and did not see
anything mentioned regarding the use of a quality surge protector.
<Yes... am a fan of the use of GFCIs instead in these applications>
Surge
suppression is very important within the saltwater aquarist community for both
safety and equipment protection. Pumps, filters, lighting, UPSs, and aquatic
life itself, all add up to a substantial investment and can be at risk when
inadequate surge protection is used.
<... not a problem with a GFI>
We recently exhibited at the MACNA
conference last month in Boston, MA and the product was very well received.
We are also getting mentioned within the Reef Central Forum under the IceCap
Aquarium Surge Protector thread.
Following is a link to our new aquarium web page:
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/marine.html
If you are interested in learning more about Zero Surge's patented surge
protector technology, please contact me at 1-800-996-6696 or access our
web-site at www.ZeroSurge.com.
Regards,
Joe Nocella
Director of Sales
<Thank you for your notice. Will post on WWM for alls edification. Bob Fenner>
Aquarium Surge Protector
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<Joe>
Thank you for your response and for posting my information on your web-site.
Some important points of clarification in your responses are in caps bold
below. You are stating that a GFCI or GFI is the same or performs the same
function as a surge protector and that is 100% incorrect.
Regards,
Joe Nocella
<Agreed re function, but still am a fan of only GFI/GFCI use in pet-fish
settings... am unaware of any gear that will suffer from voltage/potential
spikes. Do you have proof of the utility of your devices? Bob F>
><... not a problem with a GFI> MAJOR PROBLEM! A GFCI IS USED TO PROTECT
PEOPLE AGAINST ELECTRICAL SHOCK FROM A GROUND FAULT. IT DOES NOT PERFORM THE
FUNCTION OF A SURGE PROTECTOR. WE HAVE TESTED MANY GFCIS WITH POWERLINE
SURGES AND THEY ALL HAVE BLOWN UP. THEY ARE ALSO TESTED UNDER UL'S 2003 CODE,
NOT UL 1449 WHICH IS THE CODE FOR ALL TRANSIENT VOLTAGE SURGE SUPPRESSORS.
Re: Aquarium Surge Protector
Bob,
<Joe>
I would say 5 months ago, we received two phone calls from aquarists, who
suffered powerline surges. One aquarists experienced damage to his ballast
and his UPS,
<Wow!>
the other lost a pump and his heater started to mal-function
raising the temperature in his tank which resulted in the loss of two fish.
This started my research into this area, and what I found was surge
protection was either not considered due to ignorance, or the cheaper
version was used which eventually failed.
GFI/GFCI and UPS's are talked
about and are needed within this hobby.
<Agreed>
So are surge protectors, and in
speaking with attendees at the MACNA conference, many aquarists have
experienced damage to their equipment due to surges. Also, within the
IceCap's Aquarium Protector Series - in the IceCap forum of Reef Central
Online Community, surge protection has received much interest and aquarists
have experienced surge damage.
Even if you do a google search on aquarium surge fires, you will find
articles such as: www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/101487.html
where a surge occurred, and the power-strip or surge protector blew.
Equipment like a heater, ballast, pump, UPS can all be affected by
voltage/spikes. Depending upon where you live, you might never suffer a
major surge (6,000V, 3,000A), due to a power outage or transient lightning
strike, but you never know and a quality surge protector provides you with
"peace of mind". A good analogy is life insurance.
<I do know directly the risks of cheap "multiple outlet "surge protectors"...
especially ones that have experienced catastrophic failures from water
intrusion... important to mount vertically, OUTSIDE of the range of splash and
spray>
As we continue to enter this market, I will send you information that
illustrates the need for such a product and I thank you for posting the
information on your web-site. Please contact me if you have any questions,
or would like me to send you information.
Regards,
Joe
<Thank you for your careful follow-up and efforts period. Will share. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Aquarium Surge Protector
Bob,
I mailed you some information to your address in San Diego, CA which will
provide you with some background on Zero Surge and the issues with cheap
surge protector strips & MOV technology. In my research, I know that you
are very involved and well-known within the saltwater hobbyist community so
I do appreciate your feedback.
Have a nice weekend.
Regards,
Joe Nocella
<Thank you for this Joe. Bob Fenner>
Marine system amperage draw estimate
About how many amps would it take to run a 90 gallon saltwater fish
aquarium?
<Likely between 6 and 20... depending on lighting use (low to high... T-5
fluorescents to Metal Halides), heating (acrylic in a well-heated room vs. glass
in not), and most importantly pumping mechanisms employed (look for and select
better pumps). Bob Fenner>
UV electrical issue
Hello Bob,
<Rick>
Your website has been a great help over the years. However, I was
unable to find anything regarding my current problem. I am sure that
you can help... so here it goes.
Got a Coralife 9W U.V sterilizer that the bulb burned out after only four
months of use. No problem I thought. So I replaced the bulb and now
this new bulb only lasted two weeks. I checked the UV casing to make
sure that no water was somehow or another getting inside. It checked
out okay. So I am faced with either electrical problems or possibly a
bad ballast?
<Yes. Next most likely cause... then a short, break in the wiring somewhere...>
Have you heard of this issue before?
<Yes, happens... particularly certain brands... Rainbow-Lifegard (now Pentair)
had some real doozies back when... and most of the small UV's have much more
trouble than larger wattages>
I wanted to check with your advice
before I dive into pulling apart the ballast and electrical assembly.
<Mmm, I would NOT do this. Send the whole unit back to... likely ESU... check
with your dealer/source first to see if they'll handle the return... most States
have a pretty much carte-blanche warranty of one year... I would NOT fool with
the unit myself. If you have troubles locating Energy Savers, or receiving
authorization for return/repair/replacement, please make this known to me. Bob
Fenner>
Not much of a handy man but it appears to not be so difficult! Any
advice would be more than helpful.
Thanks,
Rick
- Weathering Ivan -
You've given us so much valuable advice and once again we have some
questions. We live in the |
