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Blue Face Angel in a reef tank, comp.
8/6/12 regal angel, comp. 7/27/12 Regarding Blueface angelfish - suddenly stop
eating... reading 6/24/10 Anemone Vs. Majestic Angel 8/11/08 Hello Crew. <Lovely morning - Mike here today> First let me say your web site is wonderful and has no doubt done more to advance the hobby than the invent of the all-glass aquarium ! (Remember the steel framed and slate bottom tanks?) <Thanks! This site has been helping me for almost a decade; and I'm glad I never had to deal with steel framed aquariums> That said I have experienced a major set back with my 210 gal. system and I hope you can help put my mind at ease. The set up is basically FOWLR with the exception of 2 large rose bubble tips. One of them is at least 6" in diameter when fully open. <Pretty> This morning I found my 6"Majestic Angel on his side and almost dead directly under one of the bubble tips. The Angel didn't have a mark on him other than some bleached (stress) marks and died within 30 minutes after I noticed him under the anemone. All other fish in the tank are healthy and like the Angel, have been in the system for years. The Angel was eating well last night and showed no signs of distress. Body weight, color and fins all looked good. <Was he contracting or contorting in an odd way, or twitching (classic signs of neurotoxicity)? Rapid breathing? What are the angel's tankmates? I called a couple of friends of mine ( both own aquarium stores ) to ask their opinions on what may have killed my Angel. They both feel the anemone may have been the culprit. I have checked the water chemistry and with the exception of some low levels of nitrate (>10ppm) and phosphate ( about .3 ppm ) everything looks good. <Yep...> Is it possible that after all this time being together the anemone could have killed such a large Angel?? <Yes - only takes one slip, so to speak> I can find new homes for the anemones but they are beautiful and I love to watch my Maroon Clown feed and care for them. I would hate to get rid of them but if my fish are in danger I will remove them. <Well, there's really no such thing as a large, 'fish-safe' anemone unless they're clownfish. The risk is always present, and likely it just wasn't your angels' lucky day. In a tank that size, the likelihood of your fish being stung to death is low (especially large fish, to a BTA) so I wouldn't worry too much. Thanks in advance for your advise, <Anytime> Jeff Jones <M. Maddox> can two majestic angels live in a 8by 3 by3ft tank 11/5/07 <... only if/when small or paired. BobF> Angelfish Compatibility 6/9/07 Hello Crew, <Good evening, crew member Leslie at your service> I have a chance to purchase a 4" Majestic angel $40 (healthy, eating, store going out of business). My setup includes a 120g SPS reef with lots of swimming room/caves and a 60g refugium below, full of rock/Chaeto and a DSB. The fish currently in the tank are a 2" Bursa trigger, 10" Snowflake eel, and the fish in question...a 5" Flagfin/Three Spot angel. The Flagfin has been in the tank 6 months (eating all foods offered), fat and happy. < A very nice fish with a somewhat sketchy survival record...Glad yours is doing so well!> Can the two angels co-exist? <It is usually risky and rarely recommended to mix 2 such similar fish. I wouldn't even though passing up a great deal is a rough one for me.> Can't seem to find these two angels side by side in a compatibility chart (ha!). <If you ever find that chart please do let me know. > My concern stems from their similar body shapes and I'm assuming/ready for the initial posturing. Just not sure if it will go on indefinitely (ending in a demise). <Certainly a possibility.> Thanks as always for an opinion. <You're most welcome> I owe all/any of my success to you folks. Jeff <Thanks so much for the kind words! Leslie> Blue face angel, comp. 8/18/06 hi, Thank you very much for the wonderful support you have been giving me! <Welcome> I have a query, I am aware that the Blue face angel (Pomacanthus xanthometopon) is not reef safe, but i would like to know whether there are any corals (soft or hard) that can be housed with the blue face angel? <If the system is large enough... hundreds of gallons, can likely keep this Angel with most any/everything> If yes, will you kindly let me know which ones are those... Thank you very much, regards, Anup <Size of the system is the most important factor here. This Pomacanthid is found in intimate association with the reef, cnidarians... Bob Fenner> Blue-in-the Face Angel - Which is Which, and Can We Be Friends? 11/18/05 Hello, <<Hello.>> I've been reading through your web site regarding angelfish. <<I hope it's been informative and educational.>> They are beautiful fish. <<They are indeed.>> I currently have a blue face angel in a 90 Gallon reef system. <<Ok.>> Can I put an emperor or a queen angel in the same tank with the Blue Face? <<Nope.>> Will they get along? <<Nope. This is not addressing the fact that the Blue-face is about the largest fish one could safely put in a system this size, these other angels get larger, are much more aggressive, will put your system in the "GROSSLY OVERSTOCKED!" category.>> Also, are they reef safe? <<Most often, no. I know there are some who've had good luck with Pomacanthids in reef systems, but these were incredibly large systems. Thousands of gallons, not tens of gallons.>> I purchased the blue face from the LFS which had it in a reef system for over two months. <<If you want to risk it, I cannot tell you don't, but I can tell you your system is full up with the angel you have.>> Thanks, Brent <<I would expect one angel to try to beat the heck out of the other, whoever thinks they'll win will continue trying till the death or removal of the other ensues, in my experience. Again, this does not address the fact that your system is simply far too small (I think it's pretty tight for the fish you have in there, honestly, I wouldn't try it in anything smaller than 180 gallons, and you're doing it in half that volume).>> <<P.S. It would be helpful to know EXACTLY what species you're talking about - there are two species from different genuses (?) that are commonly called "blue face". Pomacanthus navarchus is what I think of, but there is also Pomacanthus xanthometopon (on FishBase called "yellowface" even though its face is primarily blue). There's a 10cm difference in size of these fishes, and slight personality differences (though neither could really be called "shy" or "non-territorial"). In short, I would not attempt to add another angel, simply because this size system won't allow it. Marina>> Blue-in-the Face Angel - Which is Which? 11/19/05 Hello and thanks for the quick response. <<You're very welcome.>> When you say my system is full up with the blue face angel that I have, does that mean I can't put any other fish in the aquarium with it? <<Not knowing other specifics about your system, I cannot say that with any real certainty. I would not put in any other large fishes assuming you don't have an exceedingly large sump and/or refugium (something that might double total water volume. Swimming space is to be considered as well, as these fishes are territorial and aggressive with ANY perceived threat). For instance, I would probably avoid large tangs - poop machines that place large demands on the system, need scads of room to swim, and can be a bit of a crap shoot when it comes to sharing a small space with another large animal. However, lots of neon or clown gobies, smaller species of Pseudochromids, a few of the smaller cardinal fishes, etc. would be more appropriate - especially the neon gobies given their occasional propensity for cleaning duties (again, this is without really knowing anything else about your set-up).>> The exact species that I'm talking about is Euxiphipops xanthometopon. <<Ah, Fishbase's "yellow-face" angel, then.. the larger of the two species if I recollect. Gorgeous fish, and hopefully it won't decimate corals (LPS would be my biggest concern) or overtax the system.>> Thanks, Brent <<Again, most welcome. Marina>> Pomacanthus navarchus Angel Compatibility Hey. Well, I guess this question has been asked several times, but with the fact that idea that a different angel has been in the place of this one. So, here's the question. I have a 120g aquarium that has been running for a while and never been stocked. I have a 30g anemone tank that I was planning on emptying into this. The anemone tank has a green tip E. quadricolor (7" across), a rose bubble (10" across), purple haddoni carpet (16" across. I've had this one for 2 years and it looks just as good as it did at day one.. I hear carpets don't do well in captivity).. <They don't. 2 years is but a mere fraction compared to 200+ in the wild.> As far as the fish, there are a pair of gold stripe maroons, pair of pink skunks, royal Gramma, 4-line wrasse. I was reading on the P. navarchus and I saw that it in some cases can be kept in a reef tank, with SPS but not LPS.. I know that angels are generally unpredictable, but I really would like to have one... <Everyone would like a Blue Girdled Angel> ...and I can't seem to find anything regarding this fish with anemones... <Anemones won't fare too well with this family of fish. The anemones will eventually be picked to death.> ... but at the same time my clowns are really protective with their anemones, but not aggressive outside of them. They only bother fish who come within a couple inches or so, and even then it's not in the sense that they nip fins, but more so that they just get really close and kind of "push" the fish without biting at it. Does this make sense? <Yes> Anyways.. I would like to know if the P. navarchus has any history of attacking bubble tips or carpets. <Yes> Any info would be greatly appreciated. So in the end the extra bonus question is what corals would you definitely NOT put this fish with? <I would not trust them with any corals. When the angels are juveniles they're not quite so bad, but as the grow they get worse in that regard. I also think your 120 is too new a set up to put an angel in. James (Salty Dog)> Blue face angel in coral reef tank. RECENTLY, I READ AN ARTICLE (NATIONALLY KNOWN AUTHOR) WHICH HAD A PICTURE OF A BLUE FACED ANGEL IN HIS CORAL REEF TANK . I THOUGHT SHORT OF SEVERAL SMALL ANGEL SPECIES THAT ALL OTHER ANGEL SPECIES WERE NOT REEF SAFE. PLEASE RECTIFY THIS DILEMMA (I WOULD LIKE TO PUT A BLUE FACED ANGEL IN MY REEF TANK IF THIS IS SAFE). >> Yep, some folks have all the success/fortune it seems... But some angel species, some specimens, some settings, some mix of species just "do/don't fit the/a mold"... and MOST of this species (Pomacanthus Euxiphipops xanthometopon) Don't go in MOST folks set ups... The only way to "tell" whether you'll be one of the "lucky ones" is to try it. Do start with a small individual (3-4"), in a well established system... and, you know the "cost" of "freedom"? Yep, constant vigilance (something my fellow Americans should re-enliven)... you'll have to be ever watching that angel... as it may develop an expensive eating habit. If it were me, I'd try another angel species on the sliding scale of likelihood of being "reef" safe (let's say a Flame on the high side, a true Lemon Peel on the Blue Face end of the spectrum...). My opinion. Bob Fenner Majestic angels Hi Bob, I know in both your book and in articles etc, you do not recommend this fish. But I believe that their poor survivability is due to handling methods ???? <To a large extent, yes, the Majestic or Navarchus Angel (Pomacanthus Euxiphipops navarchus) is lost largely to artifacts of capture, handling, shipping... but even neglecting these sources of trauma/mortality, this species still rates a 3 on my scale of survivability (more than half are dead as of a month of collection)> (correct me if I am wrong). It has been suggested to me that so long as you get a good healthy specimen that they are fine. <Better, not good though> I get all my live stock via TMC. So I have faith that they have been well handled. <Agreed, in western Europe they are the best marine wholesaler... their methods are unparalleled> I was hoping to add one to my tank, which is 84" x 18" x 18", good readings .. nitrate less than 10ppm ... around 5ppm most of the time. <Believe what you will my friend, till experience changes your mind...> What I am worried about is the existing fish, which include an emperor and queen angel. Both are about 4.5" long and going through their change. I am not really worried about the queen, because she chases nothing and is totally peaceful. The emperor on the other hand chases her. But it seems as though he will only chase a fish which challenges him, or one that is of equal size such that it is threat to his territory. <I would be concerned... these are large species... that don't appreciate being crowded... even if they 'grow up together'... When they're full sized what will you do with them?> I was planning to get a 2.5 to 3" adult colored majestic. I was thinking that the emperor would pretty much ignore it, since it will be about half its size, and hardly a sizable threat. Also, I do not think the queen would touch it, because she chases nothing anyway. What do you think ??? Thanks, Regards, Matt., Co. Cork, Ireland. >> <Don't know what to think... chances are okay that the marine angels will get along well enough for now, that the Majestic will perish, "for no apparent reason", that you will hopefully stay in the hobby... Bob Fenner> Blue face angel. About 3 months ago I purchased a 4 inch Blue faced angel for my 240g reef tank. He has done exceptionally well in my tank and now is 5 inches long. I knew when I bought the fish that it was a risk, but he made my tank. Up until three days ago he never ate anything he shouldn't. Yesterday he started to eat my Trachyphyllia brain coral. I gave it to a buddy before it was destroyed. ( the coral is now open again thankfully). Now he has moved onto my meat coral. Tomorrow I will also trade it in or give it away. I also saw him nip one of my gorgonians but it shows no sign of damage and after a bit the polyps came back. I keep a derasa clam, lots of LPS, and lots of Softies. I just bought my first SPS coral (Montipora digitata) to see how it does under my VHOs. So far the angel is ignoring my hammer, bubble, elegance, and cup LPS corals. Also ignored are all small polyps, soft corals, and the derasa clam. I had a similar problem before with an Eibli angel. It only ate very meaty LPS such as brains, meats, and candy corals. I ended up trading him back in with my LFS. Hopefully this angel has the same tastes. It is worth not having brain corals to have this fish in my tank!!! I really like this angel and do not want to get rid of him. He is beautiful and the first large angel I have owned. I'm thinking about removing all meaty LPS corals, adding feeder sponges for him to graze on all day, and crossing my fingers that he wont eat anything else. From your experience would you remove the angel or trade in the meaty LPS for soft corals and less meaty LPS corals and hope his tastes don't run towards these as well. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help, Everett <Well, from reading your message you seem to have about the same appraisal I have of this Angel, and its propensity for sampling stinging-celled animals... I would likely make the same sort of decision by default... either to house the meatier corals or this fish... a tough choice, but necessary. Bob Fenner> Blue face Angelfish Hi Bob, I saw http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euxiphip.htm and found this information very valuable. I would like your opinion on a Blue Face Angelfish I saw and would like to buy. It looks very healthy an is eating very well. My saltwater fish only tank is about 170 gallons and I have a Powder Blue Tang, a Regal Tang, a Yellow Tang, an Odonus Niger and a Holacanthus tricolor. This last one is what worries me more because he is small (about 2 inches) and the Blue face Angelfish is about 4 inches. Will this be a problem? Do you think I would end with a death Holacanthus? The tank has a significant amount of live rock and water quality is ok. Thank you very much for your opinion. Joao Cotter <Hard to say Joao. You already are having success with a couple of equally difficult species (the Holacanthus tricolor/Atlantic Rock Beauty Angel and Powder Blue Tang... if you do place this large Pacific Angel species I would stop there in the way of adding fishes... and I would definitely dip and quarantine the specimen for two weeks ahead of its placement... to further assess its health, and ward against possible infectious and parasitic disease introduction. Bob Fenner> Six Bar Angel Fish Dear Robert, On July 10'th, 2001, I acquired a new so called Six Bar Angel Fish that is about 4-5 inches in length which is still in its juvenile stage. My question is that at Strictly Fish, Mike fed it 2 or 3 times before I purchased it. When I brought it home, I placed it in a 2 gallon tank set up inside the 6 feet long tank (dimensions are 72" x 18" x 20") to acclimate it from Tuesday afternoon to Friday afternoon for feedings and other routines so that it will know who I am and not be frightened of the things I do. In the 2 gallon tank, he was eating fine and dandy while the rest of the other residents saw him and he saw the others as well as the surrounding environment. On Friday the 13'th of July, I released him in the main tank by taking off the lid and sinking the entire container to let him out. The 4-5" Semi- Circulatus Angel Fish gave chase and would not let up so after I cleaned out the 2 gallon tank, I netted the Semi- Circulatus juvenile Angel in the small container. <So far so good> I had to keep the 2-3" Picasso Trigger Fish (by netting an entire live rock when it hid in there) at bay as it kept biting the new Six Bar Angel Fish. <Really? How unfriendly> I did this the rest of the day and evening before I let the trigger out of hiding so to give the new fish time to explore the rest of the tank (the trigger no longer bothers 6 Bar). Ever since I released the 6 Bar and exchanged the Semi Circulatus in the clear holding container, the 6 bar just simply stopped feeding. That was 4 days ago and I am getting desperate. <Hmm, doesn't sound good to me either> I make a mish-mash of combined foods which are the following: frozen Prime Reef Formula cubes, frozen Angel Formula cubes, frozen Brine Shrimp gum drops, frozen Blood Worm cubes, frozen Beef Heart cubes, frozen Formula One cubes, frozen Formula Two cubes, freeze dried Mysis Shrimps, Spirulina Flakes, Regular colorful Tetra Min flakes, several drops of VitaChem and Selcon. First, I thaw out the frozen items in some salt water in the microwave for 10-20 seconds. Then I add everything else and mix it so I have a large batch to feed the fishes for several evenings which I keep refrigerated the uneaten part till next feeding time. I feed them once a day. Now why all of a sudden did this fish become so finicky?!? <So much being chased around is my guess> I noticed that it is shy, that I have to coax it to come out by continuously talking to it in a calm, quiet, and slightly high pitched voice. <Hmm> I offered it some grape Caulerpa (it seems the tangs and miniature angels like them such as Coral Beauty and Lemon Peel Angel); offered it chopped up pre-cooked shrimp; left some Sea Weed Selects Red and Brown Algae for it to graze on; offered it some floating and sinking pellets; there are some turf algae growing in the main tank itself. Should I offer it some saw blade Caulerpa, some solid blade Caulerpa, some Halimeda, some feather Caulerpa that grows in the refugiums?!? <Wouldn't hurt to try> Coralline algae grows everywhere and so does ball sponges in colors of pinkish red, browns, greens, whites, etc. (I hear that they eat sponges and yet they are left untouched). Or is he one of those that is a specialized eater like the butterfly fishes that eats corals?!? <You have a good size, and sounds like an initially healthy specimen... I would give it a few more days where it is... It may well be eating all sorts of items from, around your live rock> Should I move the restrained Semicirculatus in another tank?!? Is 6 bar uncomfortable in the site of Semicirculatus?!? <These two don't sound like they are. I would move one of them if they don't appear to be getting along better in about a week.> Or should I move 6 bar to another tank and leave Semicirculatus in the big tank as he is the established resident?!? Semicirculatus eats like a pig and I don't seem to have any problems with him. So does Picasso Trigger. Fiji Damsel (top half blue, bottom half yellow) is a dainty eater (had him since October of 1998). 6 bar likes to sleep right beside Purple Lobster that hides inside a very large live rock. Pin Cushion Sea Urchin lives in the refugium where all the macro algae grows I heard that Picasso thinks that urchins are fish food). So there you have it, they are my guests in these particular tank system. 6 Bar Angel is slow and methodical and cautious when he swims from one end of the tank to the other. Doesn't look like he is sick or thin and wasting away or there are no visible ick or white spots, etc. And yes, he is aware of me as he hides soon as I approach. Then he cautiously comes out and does his side to side dance (all the fishes, I notice, do that to indicate that they are hungry) to let me know he wants to be fed. But, I am very puzzled as to why he is on a hunger strike. What do you think I should do?!? Help!!! Thanks for your time and patience. <Once again, I do suspect this fish is eating "other than food you're offering" and would not panic... would wait a week more... see if it does better than... and if not, likely move it rather than the Koran as you so well detail. Thank you for your well-written mail. Bob Fenner> Sincerely yours, Aleida Ann Graichen The Mariner Editor P.S. Please say hello to your delightful significant other, Dianne as I thoroughly enjoyed your company up in Monterey. Say hello to Mike and Peter for me!!! Ditto <Ah, will do so. Be seeing you. Bob> Blue Face Angel-Reef Safe Dear Bob <Scott F. here tonight> Two days ago my friend purchased a Blue Faced Angel (Pomacanthus xanthometopon) on the advice of a local aquarium owner, who said it was reef safe. <Well-there are hobbyists who have kept these in reef systems for years with no problems. On the whole, however, I would be inclined NOT to consider it "reef safe". A wonderful fish, nonetheless!> The fish is eating frozen foods (particularly a vegetable/fish mix enhanced with vitamins) and with considerable appetite at that. So far so good. <If the fish is eating well in the store, that's an excellent sign> My concern is that he has put it into a reef tank (100 Gallons) crowded with soft corals, but no sponges other than what occurs naturally on the 70kg of live rock and is ok for it to eat. I had always been led to believe by aquarium dealers that all large Angels ate corals, but this particular one and your site raises some questions. Is this so with the Blue faced? I have looked at the relevant page on the species, and am not 100% sure if it does or not. <I think it's too general to state that all large angels eat corals. Yes most of them, including this one- will sample, if given the opportunity, and most cannot be trusted in reef systems. However, there are always individual exceptions. Many times, angels can, and will- adapt well to prepared foods. I have seen many instances where large angels were well-fed, and never chomped on corals. It's really a matter of luck, IMO> So far on day two its swimming freely and not bothering anything.. But I guess it can change. What's your opinion? Is it possible that it will leave the corals alone Yours Sincerely Brett Moloney Brisbane, Australia. <Well, Brett- once again, it's hard to know. You could question 100 hobbyists and get 100 different answers, unfortunately! Even though the fish is not eating corals in the dealer's tank, he may change his ways in your tank-perhaps it's smaller, has different corals, more fishes which are competitive feeders...any number of factors which could influence the fish's behaviour and inclination to nip or eat corals. Until he is settled in your aquarium (after quarantine, of course!), your guess is as good as mine. If you are not adverse to possibly losing some corals, then you may want to give it a shot. Otherwise, it's not worth the risk, IMO. Make your decision based on your comfort level! Good luck! Regards, Scott F> - Adding a Majestic Angel - I want to try putting a blue girdled angel into my tank which already houses an adult emperor angel. My emperor is not overly aggressive but is protective of his cave. He is about 5". There are other deep caves in the aquarium for a new fish to claim. What size of blue girdled should I get? I can get from 3" all the way to 6" and it would come from Bali. Thanks, Andy <Difficult to say really as you didn't mention the size of your tank... this will be THE determining factor. Cheers, J -- > Emperor Angel Thanks for the quick response
Jason, <<You are quite welcome.>> There isn't any coral
yet in the "reef" at the LFS. It's just been cycling for
about a month with live rock. <<could be a problem for Mr.
Emperor.>> I guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to pick
between these 2 beautiful fish. I'm not asking which one to keep,
what I'd like to know is: Is it your opinion that I WILL indeed
have to choose one. <<either that OR get another tank, I just
honestly don't see your Emperor getting any smaller, if you know
what I mean...>> So if the snout out the top is reason for
concern, what should I do? <<keep and eye on it, check the water
quality.>> What does it mean? <<something ain't right,
sorry, isn't right. What that problem is precisely, I cannot say,
but is certainly something too keep an eye on.>> Thanks for your
help. Rick
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