|
| |
Top off Water 1/28/08
Hi guys I have a question about wet and dry filters ,I’m adding water ever
day to sump area ,is this normal.
<Yes, for evaporation top off.>
I have no leaks ,this cannot be normal do you have any idea why I’m loosing so
much water? And how many times a week should water be added ?
<In some cases daily.>
Do I really need a w/d filter when I have live rock and live sand, I’ve been
reading about the Berlin system?
<With a sufficient amount of live rock you do not need the biomedia in the
wet/dry. Read up on the following links and related FAQ’s, good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I2/Water_Makeup/makeup_water.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/bioballfaqs.htm
Automatic Water Changes
1/16/08
Have you ever heard of someone designing a semi-affordable automatic water
change system for smaller tanks (55Gal)?
<Oh yes>
If you have an RO system and a holding tank with aeration and heating seems like
it would be fairly easy to design a system to add the proper amount of salt and
buffers then pump water in/out once a week or so.
<... have seen such>
Are there digital systems for checking PH/PS?
<... what is PS? There are digital meters of many kinds for pH... These issues
are gone over on WWM BTW... Bob Fenner>
Tunze
Osmolator ATO 11/27/07
I thought my question about how to lower my hanging light would be
the dumbest one asked (thanks, by the way, raising/lowering it to
control heat worked like a charm), but I'm rather certain this one takes
the cake.
<Great to hear, but no cakes to take here.>
I bought myself a Tunze Osmolator to do ATO. I love Tunze stuff but this
one is mystifying me.
<Great company, awesome product.>
I've got the thing all set up on my sump ready to go and the pump they
give is in the bucket ready to pump, but I've tried and tried and tried
to get that little tiny black rubber hose over top of the nozzle to the
stop like they say. I've even put a pair of needle nosed pliers in there
while running it under hot water and spread it trying to get it to open
wide enough to work. It's just too small, and I'm wondering if I'm the
only one who's had this problem. If so, I'll find a way to force the
tube INTO rather than over the nozzle. If not, can someone please tell
me a good way to stretch that little black tube over the nozzle so I can
stop doing manual top offs?
Thanks guys! You're the best.
Frank
<The tube does indeed go inside the output of the pump, not outside.
Even inside it is a tight fit, so lubricate it with some water. I would
like to point out the one downside to this particular system is
siphoning. When the pump comes on it will continue to siphon water out
of the top off bucket when it shuts off if your output line is lower
than the water level in the bucket. This can easily be fixed by keeping
your output line above the level of the bucket and then bring the water
to your sump via a larger line the output line can sit inside loosely,
allowing air to enter. A piece of ½” pvc works well. This will eliminate
the siphon and allow the system to add only what is needed to top off.
Good reliable top off system that you will soon grow to appreciate.
Thank you for the kind words Frank, happy reefing, Scott V.>
Re: Tunze Osmolator ATO 11/27/07
Genius. I had given up on the black rubber tube and instead used a
larger piece of flexible pvc only to have the thing start screaming at
me when the water level rose past due to siphoning. Will try the PVC,
but space underneath the tank is VERY limited.
<It sure gets that way fast, doesn’t it.>
I've done some unique arrangements to get everything under there.
Anything else you can recommend if that doesn't work/fit?
<Anything that introduces air into the line to act as a siphon break. >
Tragically, I have the sump in a 10 gallon tank and the top off water in
a 5 gallon bucket, so though it's counter intuitive, the water level
will almost always be higher in the top off tank than the sump.
<I had that exact setup when I bought my first Osmolator. I just put the
line high up under my stand and had it point down into pvc that went
directly down into my sump. You could always replace the bucket with a
shorter, wider Rubbermaid bin if you do not have the height above your
sump to solve the siphon problem. Have fun with it, the work will be
worth it, Scott V.>
Re: Tunze Osmolator ATO 11/28/07
I've got an overflow box for the sump and in the pvc that brings the
water back up to the tank, there's a hole punched in the bottom to act
as a siphon break in order to prevent backflow siphoning from flooding
the house. Would that work here too? A small hole in the tube? Not
mechanically or engineering inclined here, so the concept of siphoning,
while making sense on paper, is still mystifying in reality.
Frank
<It is the same principal, you just need to introduce some air into the
line when the pump shuts off. A hole in the line could work, but the
water will want to go through that hole with the pump on. Anther option
would be to run the line up to your main display (perhaps have it drain
into your overflow box). Have the hose just slightly out of the water,
the bucket will be lower than your tank and no siphoning will occur.
Good luck, Scott V.> |
Idea For DIY Auto Top-Off…Too Simple To
Work? – 09/29/07
Thank you for asking yet another question, it's very much appreciated!
<<We’re glad to help>>
I need an auto top-off for my 65g reef tank. I can't afford a Tunze, and the
cheaper ones all seem to fail sooner or later.
<<Mmm, pity about the Tunze Osmolator…this is a primo bit of gear…well worth
saving up for>>
I got an idea from my dog's water bowl.
<<Okay>>
My Beagle's water dish has a 2-liter bottle that suspends upside down over the
dish, with a tube that runs from the bottle cap to about 2-inches into the bowl,
and automatically refills the bowl as the water level drops.
<<Ah yes…am familiar with…>>
My Christmas Tree stand has the same feature, they have worked well. I'd like to
take a 5g rigid airtight container (have one already) with a tight fitting cap,
drill a hole in the cap, insert and silicone a ¼-inch tube. I'd fill the
container with water and place it on it's side over my sump. I'd cut the tube to
the length (slightly longer than) I'd need to maintain my desired water level in
the sump. Air pressure would keep the water in the container until the water
level dropped low enough for the tube to take up air, therefore exchanging water
for air inside the container. Once the tube end was covered with water, no more
air could enter the tube, therefore stopping the exchange. (I'm sure I did not
need to explain how air pressure works to you, but others reading might gleam
new information from my explanation).
<<Indeed so…and thank you for this>>
This idea seems almost too simple, because wouldn't it have already been done if
it is possible?
<<Hmm, I seem to recall some past commercial adventures re…wasn’t “The Nurse”
such a device? I’ve also seen such devices outlined as DIY projects on the NET.
But yes, as you say, it does seem “simple enough”… And perhaps that is the
problem…considering how we hobbyists do like our “complex” gadgetry [grin]>>
What am I overlooking?
<<Maybe nothing… Perhaps water turbulence (as opposed to a “static” dog dish)
causes the reservoir to empty itself…or maybe the tubing has to be inserted too
deeply causing too much of a Salinity change before replenishment…or maybe the
device will work like a charm! But you won’t know until you give this device a
try. It is a “simple” and cheap enough experiment, afterall>>
Thank you in advance,
Dakota
<<Happy to share. Eric Russell>>
Top-off water
8/12/07
I am using a two-part additive to maintain calcium and alkalinity, every
other day, since tank start-up (about 50 days ago). I am also using RO/DI water
for my freshwater top-off.
<I would introduce these products here...>
After reading much about buffering and aerating top-off additions, I've begun
doing so but have noticed that my KH has steady climbed from a KH of 8 to a KH
of 11.5 and calcium has declined (assumably in proportion). My pH has been
rather stable at 8.4 throughout the alkalinity shift (120gal display, 60gal
sump/refugium with Chaeto on reverse daylight illumination, several small SPS
specimens and developing coralline algae, 15% water change every two weeks).
Should I simply top-off with aerated or non-aerated RO/DI so as not to skew the
two-part additive calcium/alkalinity balance ?
<Well... I would use less of the product that will not boost your KH, and/or
more of the other part (not at the same time)... and aerate this mixed in with
the new water for top-offs>
I eventually plan to incorporate a calcium reactor or Kalkwasser
use and I am basically using the two-part system as a less involved means of
supplementation while I get use to the maintenance and system-needs of my
current set-up.
<Can be done... efficaciously... More easily/safely with larger volumes... You
have read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
the sections on such issues?
Thank you for your time.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Automatic Top-Off?…Tunze
Every Time! – 07/28/07
Crew,
<<Andrew>>
Does anyone have any experience/thoughts on the JBJ auto top off product?
<<I have no personal experience with the JBJ unit, but for my money nothing
beats the Tunze Osmolator for “top-off” duty. I’ve been using one for 3 ½ years
now and but for having to change out the small 12v pump every year (less than
$20) the system works flawlessly. The Osmolator uses an Infra Red sensor to
detect the water level (no faulty float switches) and “tops-up” when as little
as 1mm of drop in the water level is detected (a big help in maintaining a
stable salinity)>>
I am going on vacation for 9 days and need to employ a person or machine to
perform top offs. Thanks!
<<I can’t imagine running my system without this (and much more) automation. The
JBJ unit may “do the job”…but the Tunze unit will “make you a believer”… EricR>>
Re: Automatic
Top-Off?...Tunze Every Time! - 07/28/07
Eric,
<<Hello Andy>>
Thanks for a very insightful response.
<<My pleasure>>
If memory serves, the Tunze is quite expensive isn't it?
<<It is…about $180>>
Much more than the JBJ.
<<Indeed…what is your peace of mind worth? Eric Russell>>>>
Andy Bulgin
R2: RE: Automatic Top-Off?...Tunze Every
Time! - 07/29/07
You WWM people are always talking sense to me.
<<Hee-hee! High praise indeed! EricR>>
Auto Top off gear choices –
06/19/07
Is the Tunze system still your "pick to click" for an auto top off?
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TZ4111 Looks nice but just
wanted to verify before sending them $175. Got to get it ready and
properly tested before heading out to Hawaii.
Thanks,
Chris
<Mmm, don't know... Would call them (MD) and am cc'ing EricR... as if anyone
amongst us would know... or know where to ask next. Cheers, B>
<<If you mean the Tunze Osmolator, yes, it is a premier piece of
gear...outshines float-switches by far. The infra-red technology is solid...and
provides adjustment/senses changes as small as 1cm in water height. Well worth
the dosh in my opinion. Eric>>
Re: Auto Top off 7/13/07
Thanks for this recommendation Eric. I just set it up and it is truly a
great design, what a bit of clever engineering.
Chris
<You're quite welcome Chris. You are gonna LOVE this bit of gear...and should
you ever have any questions/problems with it, Roger at Tunze USA provides
"super" advice and customer service. In fact it's not a bad idea to visit the
Tunze forum on RC from time to time just to see what people are saying about the
equipment/specific instances and any resolutions for same.
Nothing is perfect, but I do believe the Osmolator is "the best" top-off
design/setup around...and I'll wager you will soon come to agree... Eric
Water Filtration, Top offs, and Storing Saltwater 4/26/07
Jason here from Manila. Hope you're doing well too :)
<Greetings, Jason! GrahamT with you this fine, rainy morning in Maine, USA.>
My water company delivers filtered water to my doorstep.
<Cool!>
However, I am not sure about the quality of the water, and if they use copper
for its distillation process.
<Can be tested for...>
I also believe it is RO water.
<Is likely. Commonly used form of purification.>
What kind of tests should I do on the water to determine if it is safe for my
reef tank?
<I would test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium, phosphate and copper. If
you are curious, you could add total dissolved solids (which should be at or
near zero if it IS RO) and iron. These can be useful kits for any aquarist, but
they *ARE* seldom-used and the kits do expire so... it's your call.>
If I'm going to do my own filtration on my tap water,
is it ok to just do RO, and not DI?
<That depends on what you want to accomplish. For most cases, RO will suffice. I
would venture that if your tap water is safe to drink, then you can buy a simple
RO (read: two or three-stage) with acceptable results. However, the more you
invest initially in your RO unit, the more it pays of in the end. Multiple
stages of pre-filtration before the RO-membrane extend the life of the membrane
and soften the blow to your wallet. If you do go with a many-stage unit, then
the addition of DI is warranted, IMO. The level of stuff that would make it to
the DI in that case would be minimal, and thus the DI cartridge would last quite
a while. All these different choices will be prompted by the tests you carry out
on your tapwater.>
I plan to make a DIY top off system. Does the water
need to be constantly aerated with an airstone & pump
to keep oxygenated?
<Not *constantly*, but if you plan to keep it for long periods (like weeks) in
the same container, you need to provide movement and aeration to avoid stagnant
water.>
As part of my routine of making saltwater and storing, can I keep it in
containers where it is not circulated and not air pumped for weeks at a time,
and then when I need to use it, I can airstone it and circulate it for x hours -
would this be ok?
<If you are driven to store the water for a long time, then I would store just
the purified fresh water, since there is less chance of it growing bacteria and
algae whilst sitting. Then you can mix it up in due time for its use.>
If so, how long should I aerate/circulate it prior to use? Is there anything I
should watch out for here?
<Aerate and circulate for at least two days after you mix the salt, and then
feel safe using it.>
Doing water changes - when I water change, I aerate and use a water pump for
circulation prior to use.
However, this makes the water much warmer than my tank. Is it ok to let it sit
without aeration/circulation for 2 hours (while it cools down) prior to use?
<The aeration alone shouldn't heat the water, but in either case, letting it sit
for a matter of a couple hours is detrimental in any way. By all means, let the
water cool. Good luck!
-GrahamT>
Substrate for Dragon Eel/Freshwater Top Off mix-up - 3/22/07
Thank you all in the process of getting my aquarium off and running. I
have learned so much since I stumbled across this web site 1 month ago.
<No problem friend, that's why we're here. Glad to be of assistance.>
I will be starting a 240g (96x24x24). The Hawaiian dragon eel will be my
center piece.
<Wonderful choice, and an excellent configuration for such.>
It will be a FOWLR system with a 90g sump, 250 lbs live rock and a 2-3" live
sand bed or crushed coral. Could you please offer me your expert opinion on
which type of substrate would be best suited for this system?
<A sugar-fine oolitic sand always wins out in my books -- not only is it easier
to maintain, I think it just looks better!>
would you also recommend a refugium for this setup?
<Absolutely, though no reason to add more to the tank -- a section of your sump
will happily suffice.>
Further more, I was reading the section on specific gravity. Mr. Fenner
advises (if I understand the article correct) that one should not refill
evaporated salt water with freshwater.
<Mmm, no, I do believe this is a misunderstanding on your part. You should
always top off evaporate with freshwater.>
He advises that one should do a water change when the water level noticeable
evaporates.
<Which article are you referring to? This seems to counter everything I've ever
read from Bob...>
So my question would be, is a freshwater top off system necessary?
<Depends on your diligence and laziness levels! If you would like the majority
of your tank to be blindly run to you, then an auto top off is a worthwhile
investment.>
When I notice the water level decrease a little should I do a water change?
<You should perform a water change regularly on a schedule of maintenance (a
good 'rule of thumb' is once a week.)>
How much can I expect my tank water to lose over the course of a week? I live in
Calgary, Canada and it is very dry.
<This all depends on several factors, such as your ambient home temperature, the
tank temperature, the lighting scheme used, the type of cover you employ, etc. I
would say a safe estimate would be a half a gallon a day, give or take. Again,
don't trust this as a set in stone factor, this is entirely determined by your
configuration.>
My original plan was to buy a auto top off system and use RODI water and do
weekly 5% water change. What would you recommend? RODI auto top off and a 5%
weekly water change or when the water evaporates a little just do a water
change?
<Weekly 5-10% water changes, with whatever water top off scheme you choose will
be sufficient.>
Thank you for your time,
Brent
<Anytime, Brent. Glad to help. -JustinN>
Best Auto Top-Off System? - 01/27/07
Hello Crew,
<<Nemo 1>>
What would be the best Auto Top Off system that money can buy?
<<For my money that would be the TUNZE OSMOLATOR UNIVERSAL 3155 - auto top-off
system. I've used one for more than three years now. The Osmolator utilized
infrared technology to sense the water level...more reliable than mechanical
float sensors and capable of detecting a 1mm drop...very useful for maintaining
stability>>
And where can I get it?
<<Here:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TZ4111 >>
I have been reading through your site and I think all of them have its own ups
and downs?
<<Any automated system is susceptible to failure, but I consider this auto
top-off system to be the best>>
I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks this spring and I got nobody to baby-sit my
tank.
<<Risky...too bad...hopefully your lighting is automated as well>>
I'm planning of setting an auto-feeder and stock it with pellets and flakes (I
know this is not a good nutrition food but I have no choice. (I'm open for any
suggestion).
<<I would forego the flakes as they have a tendency to absorb moisture too
readily "gumming up" the works. A quality pelleted food such as New Life
Spectrum will do fine on its own...as long as all your fish will eat pelleted
foods of course>>
I just bought the Eheim brand and it's pricey ($75.00). I don't know if I got
ripped off but that's the only FS that carries that brand.
<<The price does seem a tad bit high to me, but Eheim is a good product (Bob
uses these feeders himself)>>
As for calcium, I'm thinking of SeaLab 28 the big block, again,
I have no choice, still saving up for a calcium reactor... unless you guys have
a better alternative?
<<Unless your tank is extremely heavily stocked with calcifying organisms I
would merely perform a water change prior to departure and check/adjust alkaline
and bio-mineral content and not risk the mineral block...too much chance of
something getting grossly out of balance with you not around to catch it>>
Pls enlighten me...I'm really very very concerned of what is going to happen to
my tank when I get back.
<<This is about all you can do. Considering your investment/peace of mind why
not look in to a pet-sitting service to come by once or twice to check on
things?>>
72g reef, running for about a year and half, 20g sump with AquaC Urchin-Pro and
a Eheim 2026 gutted out, only 2 units of Chemi-Pure and Poly-Filter inside
running 24/7.
<<Sounds good>>
As for fishies, pair of true Perculas, 6-line wrasse, Kole tang, 2 green
chromis, neon goby, Midas blenny, blue damsel. Also 2 cleaner shrimp, 5
Nassarius snails. For corals...1 torch, 1 frogspawn, 1 open brain, 2 cup coral,
mushrooms, variety of zoanthids.
<<Mmm, as I thought...the water change should handle any earth-element needs
until your return>>
Am I over stocking?
<<Your fine for now>>
I'm here at work right now so I would really appreciate it if you could pls get
back to me today so I can start shopping for Auto Top-Off system this weekend.
<<Oops...sorry>>
Thanks in advance.
Nemo 1
<<Regards, EricR>>
Water Changes VS Water Top off; Apples VS Oranges? 11/27/06
<Hey Clinton, JustinN here today.. No formal greetings? *grin*>
I have a 125 gallon tank with 120 pounds of sand and 100 pounds of live rock
that is about four months old. The system is mainly all reef about fourteen
corals, which are mostly LPSs and a couple sps.
There is also a few fish. yellow tang, royal Gramma, two yellow tail gobies, two
small clown fish, Scotts fairy wrasse, and three chromis.
The chemical water environment is steady throughout the week with water
changes. I was just wondering since the water evaporates at almost five gallons
a week if it would be ok just to do water top offs instead of complete water
changes.
<I do think you have a little bit of a misunderstanding of water evaporation and
water changes. They are not interchangeable. Water top off is to maintain salt
density at a proper level, based on the evaporation. Water changes, on the other
hand, are used to remove waste from the water (whether they're detectible by
tests or not, they are still there) as well as replenishing trace elements and
natural balance to the water. Please don't reduce your husbandry skills for this
reasoning, if you're that concerned with the maintenance involved with both
topping off water, and water changes, set yourself up an auto top off system.
There are many commercially available, and DIY projects abound to achieve this
end. Hope this helps you! -JustinN>
Thanks a lot for the helpful information.? What about the formal greetings?
<Simply that all correspondence through our site is posted, archived for all to
see, and we tend to like a more formal, proper form. It tends to make things
easier to identify and follow. The comment, however, was meant in jest and not
intended as anything more. -JustinN>
Tunze Osmolator - 11/20/06
Bob, there was a query where the querier asked if the Tunze Osmolator was
just another float switch with a fancy name.
Is not. The water level is measured by a non-wearing optical sensor and a
transistor switch with no moving parts.
The sensor is also insensitive to soiling, light, or magnetic fields. This
sensor has a separate power supply with relay
control to ensure overflow protection.
The querier also asked how far the Osmolator would pump.
The range is:
From 35" a flow of 13.7 gph
From 78" a flow of 7.1 gph
The maximum head is 86.6 inches
I believe the querier was interested in a distance of 12 feet.
Just thought I'd save some research time for whomever answers, as I am fairly
knowledgeable on the Tunze products.
Regards,
James
<Thanks for this. Will share with EricR, Ken, accumulate. B>
Re: Tunze Osmolator 11/23/06
James,
<Ken,>
Gee, you guys are good. Thanks.
<You are welcome.>
I decided on the final place for the RO water reservoir, but am still not sure
if this will work or not. Let me give you the details before I buy the unit.
I made a small hole at the bottom of the wall and have the RO water in a closet
on the other side of the wall. So the water will have to be pumped up the
container and then the water line will have to go back down the outside of the
container, through the wall and along the ground until it reaches the tank
stand. So this means that it will have to go up the container, down the
container, then 9 feet horizontal, and then up 4.5 feet to the top of the tank
(I was advised that the water needs to go into the tank and not the sump). Can
this pump do this?
<The Osmolator pump has a maximum head of 87 inches, just a little over seven
feet. Sorry.>
Thanks again,
<You're welcome, again. James (Salty Dog)>
Ken
Lighting Issues, Tunze Osmolator – 11/20/06
Hey Eric,
<<Hey Ken>>
Regarding the light what I had meant was, would two 150 watt HQI with four 54
watt T5s be a better choice for softies, LPS, and an anemone? The wattage in
total is about the same as what I have now (600 versus 608), except I have the
250's. The tank is 24" deep.
<<Mmm, you sure you want to put an anemone in with the other planned mix of
corals? These creatures are so much better of in specimen or specie specific
systems. But as for your question, yes, the 150w system would be entirely
adequate and save you some coin in power consumption/bulb replacement to boot>>
I have a friend that we could do a swap as he has the other fixture. I would
obviously do it if it is good for me.
<<Up to you as either lighting system will “work”>>
He has the Outer Orbit I believe. I'm not sure if the reflectors in that using
are same quality or better than my Maristar unit.
<<The Maristar is a better quality unit in my opinion>>
By the way, getting algae or not getting algae won't be affected by either of
these fixtures?
<<Not in my experience...you would likely be surprised just how “little” light
the alga need to survive, even thrive>>
I would assume that if the conditions are right in the water, you will get the
algae.
<<Bingo>>
Both fixtures put out a lot of light.
<<Agreed>>
What is your honest opinion on the two fixtures?
<<Honestly... I would not trade away the Maristar fixture for the Current Outer
Orbit fixture unless you are truly unhappy with the 250w lighting>>
With regards to the CO2 in my home, is that an uncommon problem?
<<It has become more prevalent with the advent of “tighter” homes. A tightly
sealed and insulated home will retain a higher percentage of respired
CO2. There are some commercial options (usually not cheap) such as installing a
whole-house air exchanger to more simple solutions like cracking open a window
in the vicinity of the tank. Which you choose (if any) will likely depend on
the severity of your climate>>
Can I get this looked into?
<<Sure...you could start by contacting your heating contractor/service company
or local EPA office and ask them about measuring levels and options to reduce
the amount of CO2 in your home>>
With regards to the tank, I had that you could take the tubing from the air
input on the skimmer and run it outside to introduce fresh air. Will this work?
<It might provide some reduction...is worth a try>>
The new corals that I mentioned seem to be adapting fine, do I need to add
anything to the water for them, or is the light enough?
<<Frequent partial water changes will provide for now. Do research the
individual species for information on their particular care/husbandry
requirements>>
Lastly, the Tunze Osmolator, how far does the pump draw and deliver water?
<<Hmm if memory serves, the pump can push water up about 8 feet or so>>
If I wanted to have a reservoir of top off water in a closet about 10-12 feet
away, will this do it?
<<If the “rise” is not too much I think it would. But, go here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=92)
and post your question with the specifics of the installation. Roger from Tunze
USA (very nice guy, very good customer support) will be able to give you a good
answer re>>
Thanks and regards,
Ken
<<Be chatting, Eric Russell>>
Auto top off... both fresh and salt both - 11/13/06
Hello,
Many thanks to you at WWM for answering all kinds of questions from viewers on
all topics. It has personally helped me greatly in setting up my store.
<Welcome>
Now that I am set up and actually selling fish (yay!), I have a dilemma I can't
seem to locate an answer in a format I can comprehend. It deals with an auto top
off system.
This is for a retail saltwater fish system that loses freshwater water daily
(due to evaporation), and we sell fish (and therefore saltwater) from the same
system too.
<Okay>
Every day I lose about 20 gallons of freshwater due to evaporation (500 gallon
system, 30 tanks, central plumbing), in addition to using about 1/2 gallon of
system (salt) water for every fish sold.
<! This is a lot of bagged water for sure>
Of course one day we might sell 2 fish (=1 gallon of saltwater) and one day we
might sell 20 fish (=10 gallons of saltwater)
Here's the dilemma... I can't seem to figure out how to set up (or what to
purchase) to keep the system topped off to the correct specific gravity
automatically. I currently use an ATO for my freshwater fish system, but that's
limited to freshwater only so no problems there.
<A few possibilities>
For the saltwater system, it's not the same. If I sell no fish and just
evaporate, I fill with freshwater only to correct the SG. If I sell fish, I'm
fooling like crazy at the end of a couple days adding some freshwater (for the
evaporation part) and some saltwater ( for the fish sold part), and guessing at
getting the specific gravity balanced trying to estimate how much water we
"sold" that day, to keep the SG balanced. (for reference, the sump is 150
gallons, so daily top off isn't mandatory, but after 2 days I definitely have to
refill it)
For reference, I have a 150g saltwater container ready at all times in a
separate container, as well as a container of RO freshwater.
Any help would be so greatly appreciated. I can't imagine I'm the only one with
this situation, but I am completely stumped here in figuring this out.
Sincerely,
Rich
<Mmm... you need two such reservoirs... one for "just" freshwater, the other as
you already have installed... and some meters For the change in specific
gravity/salinity: (conductivity likely, but there are TDS, salinity... that will
work) that will deliver (through their linking to/with an electro-magnetic
switch (solenoid) drive/valve to add freshwater when this value changes
appreciably... For the new seawater level, a more simple float valve will do...
Such gear can be purchased directly from companies or wholesalers/etailers in
the trade... like Quality Marine, All Seas (not a dot com) MarineDepot,
CustomAquatic (.coms). Bob Fenner>
Safety overflows 11/10/06
I have a 90-gallon reef tank with a 29-gallon sump/refugium mounted in the
stand below. The tank has a utility room behind it where I house the lighting
ballasts, Tunze electronics, and RODI auto-top-off system.
<Nice>
The top-off system consists of 20-gallon Rubbermaid Brute that is filled by a
wall mounted Spectra-Pure RODI filter. The RODI filter is hard-plumbed, and
controlled by a float valve in the reservoir. Then, I have a JBJ ATO monitor
with a small powerhead in the reservoir that pumps RODI water into the sump when
the water level in the sump drops.
<Sounds good thus far>
In case the float valve on the RODI reservoir fails, I've installed an emergency
overflow tube (mounted to a floor drain) 1" below the top rim of the RODI
reservoir. I'd like to do the same with the sump/refugium, in case the ATO
monitor ever fails. I want to drill a hole about 1" below the top rim of the
sump/refugium, but this is a glass tank, and I would probably have to empty it
to do so.
<Yes... though could mount/Silicone in a electro-magnetic switch sensor to the
area above the water line with water present likely>
I'm looking for alternative methods to install a safety overflow here. Any
suggestions? Or is there a way to drill a glass sump without emptying it?
<The latter? Not practically... But as stated, a mounting bracket for such a
switching mechanism could be adhered... Bob Fenner>
Thank you,
Steve
Supplementing top-off water 11/5/06
Hi WetWebCrew,
Thanks for taking my e-mail today. I have come to the realization that I
should be buffering the water I use to top off the evaporation from my reef
tank. I also want to start dosing with Kalkwasser to raise the calcium
concentration in my tank. I just want to make sure I am getting everything
right.
I am kind of confused as to how much buffer I should add to my top off
water.
<Mmmm...>
Should buffer be dosed to compensate for the daily loss in alkalinity (like
Kalkwasser would be dosed) or should you use a certain amount of buffer for how
much water you top off (i.e. 10 gallons will have 10 times the amount of buffer
as 1 gallon; such as how you add salt to mix new seawater)?
<Kind of both... the new water should be bolstered to make up for the total
lack of whatever you're trying to replace/maintain... up to the capacity of that
volume of new/change water to "hold" such>
I understand that high alkalinity and high calcium concentrations are
mutually exclusive.
<Yes... by and large... up to a degree>
Currently my calcium concentration is a little over 350ppm and my alkalinity was
around 7 or 8 the last time I tested it.
<These are not "bad" values>
I am working on getting a new alkalinity test kit so I can add the buffer
correctly and maintain this parameter. If I try to raise my calcium
concentration to 400ppm or a little more and my alkalinity to about 10, will I
be in a good range to avoid a precipitation reaction?
<Mmm, all else being semi-equal... likely so>
Do both calcium and alkalinity have to be in the high range for this to occur
(i.e. 450ppm and 12dkH)?
<Most of the time/circumstances, yes. The/this topic is more involved>
I want the change back to more healthy conditions to be gradual.
<Good. This is wise>
I have about 80 gallons total liquid volume from my display and refugium. I
also have SPS corals so I don't want to shock them. How much could I raise my
calcium concentration and alkalinity daily?
<Mmm... a few ppm, tenths of meq/l...>
Finally, as far as the dosing of Kalkwasser. Should I add buffer to the water
I am dosing with Kalkwasser?
<I would not... too likely to experience "negative chemical/physical
interactions" here>
I also read on a product label that there is a minimum amount of Kalkwasser
you should use per gallon, is this true?
<Minimum? Yes... in so much that only so much Kalk will "go into" and stay in
solution... per water quality issues, CO2 exposure... time going by>
Thanks again for taking my e-mail. You guys are the reason I am able to grow
SPS Corals!
Tim
<Yeeikes! Bob Fenner>
Top-off water trtmt. 10/6/06
I have a 24 gallon nano cube. It loses approximately 2 cups of water per
day. I've been using RO/DI water as the top-off which has a PH of 7.82 and dKH
of about 0. The top-off water is aerated for days before use. I've read through
the FAQ but cannot find the answer to my question which is this:
I will be installing an ATO from JBJ. Should I buffer the top-off water for PH,
alk, and calcium to equal the desired tank parameters?
<I would do this, yes... and test for a while, to ascertain whether you are
significantly over-boosting these qualities>
Say buffer the top-off water to a PH of 8.4, Alk of 10dHK, and calcium of 380
mg/L or so?
Or just buffer it for ph/Alk+pH only.alk only?
<And try this...>
What's the best strategy?
Please advise.
<Let's think about this... only water (of course) is leaving through
evaporation... but how much else is going on in this small volume as time goes
by? How else will reductive processes, biomineralization... depletion be made up
for? By your water changes? Perhaps... What of an answer that can be offered is
a further delving of "what do you keep?", "what are your goals?", "what do you
feed?", "what re your lighting?"... and a few more "what's"... The only way to
render a useful answer here is to suggest that you try these adjuncts and see
(through consequent testing) what the effects are on resident water quality.
BobF>
Reef Disaster...Gamble Didn't Pay Off - 07/29/06
I'm kind of hoping Anthony Calfo can reply to this, but I'll take any help
you guys can offer.
<<I'm afraid our friend Anthony no longer fields queries on this site...has
moved on to other endeavors. Let's hope I can be of some service>>
I've officially got a disaster on my hands. I need to make some tough
decisions. Here's what happened. My reef tank is four years old. For the most
part it has done extremely well over the last three years. Amazing amounts of
coral growth in this tank over the last 3 years. I could go into details about
the tank, but honestly it really doesn't matter at this point.
<<...?>>
I went on vacation for a week and as I always do I left my tank with a very slow
drip feeding it RO water.
<<As in, nothing to "meter" the water?...dangerous…>>
It evaporates about 2 gallons a day so a slow drip doesn't keep it completely
topped off, but it does replace most of the evaporated water.
<<Understood...but still risky. As with topping-up with a Kalkwasser drip, it
is best to feed the water from a container of limited volume to lessen damage
from an "accidental" over-fill, this usually means a container of no more than a
few gallons. Obviously this doesn't work in your situation where you're absent
for an extended period...which is where a well designed, reliable top-off device
excels>>
It has always been close enough.
<<I'm getting a feeling this time it wasn't...>>
I've done this many times on vacation and it has always worked out all right.
<<Russian Roulette>>
This time it didn't! I'm not sure what happened, but it was obviously feeding
water a lot faster than I thought this time. Long story short...I came home to
a freshwater tank and a very wet floor.
<<Yikes!>>
It smelled pretty bad! It smelled bad enough in the house that my kids started
crying. My wife wasn't real happy either!
<<I can imagine...>>
Amazingly she's letting me keep the tank!
<<Yay!>>
So obviously most everything in the tank died.
<<Yes...sorry to hear>>
All my mushrooms, polyps, xenia, and SPS corals are dead. Surprisingly the fish
survived... as well as several snails and crabs.
<<Can be amazingly resilient to "gradual" change>>
My dilemma is whether I should trash everything in the tank and start all over
with new live rock and substrate or should I actually try to salvage the
existing rock and substrate.
<<Can be salvaged with a good scrub/curing...but will never be as before. Best
to treat as introduced dead/dry rock, in my opinion>>
I already totally disassembled the tank. Scrubbed all the live rock in clean
salt water to get all the dead mushrooms, polyps, etc. off the rock...no use in
leaving them there to rot!
<<Much in agreement>>
I cleaned the substrate in fresh saltwater and then set the whole tank back up
with fresh saltwater. The protein skimmer has been filling all the way up every
day.
<<Much dead biota "deep in the rock" that could not be scrubbed away. The rock
is curing, though it will be devoid of much of the living biota that cured fresh
rock would retain>>
It seems to be doing its job better than ever before.
<<Much more for it to process at the moment>>
The smell is gone!
<<What of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?>>
Surprisingly I already have pink and purple coralline algae growing on the rocks
again, so I am assuming that if the coralline algae survived then a lot of other
life survived in that rock as well.
<<Don't think I would make that assumption..."some" life may have survived, but
I would consider this rock as "severely damaged">>
It has only been 7 days since the disaster.
<<I would cure this rock another three weeks, testing the water as you go,
before trying to re-introduce any macro-organisms>>
Not surprisingly, I've got some green and brown algae growth too, but it
actually appears to be going away slowly.
<<Normal algae succession...the tank is cycling>>
Should I try to make this work or is this a battle not worth fighting?
<<Up to you mate. The rock can be cured, the tank re-cycled, but much if not
all emergent life from the rock will be gone>>
Here is what I am thinking. Keep doing water changes and let that protein
skimmer do its job for several weeks and then add some GARF grunge to add all
the little critters back to the tank. Wait till the rocks start looking pink
and purple and then try growing some coral again. Is this just wishful
thinking? Will this work?
<<Is plausible, yes. But rather than the GARF product, I suggest changing out
about half the rock for "new" rock. Preferably sooner than later to let it cure
with the rest>>
I just don't want to waste my time if this is a doomed tank now.
<<Not "doomed" at all my friend...just not as "diverse" as it was/could be
without the addition of new live rock>>
Am I better off trashing everything and ordering some new live rock and
substrate?
<<Would be "better", yes...but not an absolute necessity>>
Jeff Hutcherson
<<Regards, Eric Russell>>
Maintenance/Auto Top Off Systems 7/24/06
Hello Crew,
<Hello Gary>
Thank you all so much for the wealth of knowledge you're willing to share with
us readers. I have a question about a top off system while I'm on vacation for
8 days. I have a 50-gallon marine tank that loses almost a gallon of water per
day during the summer. The tank does not have a sump. I would appreciate
specific recommendations for an automatic top off system. I don't know anything
about how they work. I've see one called JBJ A.T.O. advertised in Marine
Depot's catalog. However, I don't understand how it works.
<Work by level sensors which in turn control a valve.>
Any recommendations regarding the specific equipment I need would be
appreciated.
<Gary, most of these systems require a sump with a holding tank next to
it. Here is a link describing one with a
photo. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13959&Ntt=auto%20top%20off&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1
Thank you in advance,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Gary
Storage of RO Water - 04/19/06
Hi Crew,
<Chris>
Hopefully I wont be banned for asking 2 questions in the same week :-)
<No one has been... yet>
Just a quick one about storing RO water for top-ups. Can RO water be stored in a
sealed container with no aeration for a week without
affecting the quality of the water ?
<Mmm, yes... though should be aerated, checked for quality ahead of actual
use...>
I have an auto top-up system that tops up the main system from a 25litre
container of RO water and I use 2x 25litres containers on a rolling basis, so
one is always sealed and stored for about 6 days before it is used. Do I need to
find a way to aerate the water while in storage ?
<Mmm, in this/your case, not likely... as the amount delivered, though itself
has little to no dissolved oxygen, will not affect overall DO>
What about the active container that the auto top-up system is connected to ?
<Again, no worries. Bob Fenner>
I have to say I spent 90 minutes searching for the answers, but couldn't find
anything that would give me absolute clarity :-)
Thanks
Chris
LiterMeter waterchanges and top-off 1/4/06
Hi guys,
I have set up a new 125 reef tank and have been up and running with rock, sand,
and cleaning crew for a month. I can get a little lazy with waterchanges etc. so
I am trying to streamline the process. I purchased the LiterMeter III with the
water Xchange module. I also purchased 2 55 gallon plastic drums. My plan is to
fill one barrel with RO/DI and run one pump for my top-off at about 1.5 gallons
per day. So I could go about a month without any maintenance at all on the top
off. Do you see any problems with this system? Would water sitting in a barrel,
in the dark, be alright for several weeks? <See no problems, cover the barrel.>
As far as my waterchanges plan I want to fill barrel 2 with saltwater, and do a
daily water change of 1.5 to 2 gallons. This would be the equivalent of a 20%
waterchanges every 2 weeks. I would set one pump on the LiterMeter to remove the
2 gallons everyday and the second pump would add the same amount from my barrel.
My thinking is that a slow, steady, constant replenishment of fresh water is
better for my system than large changes that may effect temp, salinity, etc.
Does this sound like a good plan? <Yes> If I mixed 40 to 50 gallons of saltwater
would it be ok to sit in the barrel for 3 weeks or so? <Yes again, covered> Any
feedback on my plan would be appreciated. Also could I add a calcium additive to
either the saltwater barrel or the RO/DI barrel? <I'd add to the saltwater
barrel.>
Thanks. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Plastic tub needs to be food grade 12/13/05
Hi! <Hello Dominique>
For stocking new saltwater and as a freshwater reservoir for topping-off, is
it necessary to use food-grade plastic. Most plastic tubs/containers/garbage
cans are not made of food-grade plastic. Inverts being so sensitive to
chemicals, one wouldn't want to use a RO-DI just to have his container
release chemicals again in water. If it is an issue it's going to be trouble
to find the right material...<I've been using Rubber Maid products for years
with no problems. Just rinse good before using. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks!
Dominique
Osmolator and Kalkwasser question 11/19/05
Hi!
My first question would be directed at Anthony Calfo (or anybody that is able to
answer it if he's not available...).
<Have sent to Antoine, and am responding here>
On p.185 of "Book of Coral Propagation", it is said: "To maximize phosphate fallout and calcium uptake,
it has been observed that Kalkwasser additions are more effective if they can safely dosed into the main display rather than the sump". Does it really
make a significant difference and why is that?
<Can... in that a good deal of the phosphate one might be trying to precipitate out is located in the main system water... and much of the Kalk is used up very quickly... in the sump if administered there>
I am trying to make a 52" high DIY Kalk-reactor at the moment following plans found on the internet
but the idea of having it drip into the display makes me a bit nervous. But maybe there is no risk if I have it dripped where the output of the return
pump is. It's not a very high flow tough (270 gal per hour, my tank is 90 gal).
<A good place/exit point to do this, yes>
My second question regards safety back up when using an auto top-off system. I am thinking of using the Tunze osmolator connected to a small RO-DI water
reservoir. The water reservoir will be connected to the RO-DI and self-filling (with a float). From my understanding, it is impossible (or
close to impossible) that the Tunze Osmolator gets stuck on (there are two sensors plus a 10 min. time out). But it still can get stuck off.
Do you think it could be a good idea to install a second osmolator set (pressure
sensor + solenoid + float) 1" below the normal water level so if the Tunze
osmolator/pump fails, the other osmolator prevents the water level from dropping more than an inch?
<I have yet to see a situation where this failure occurred>
Some will argue that it would just duplicate the possibility of equipment failure. The way I see it, with a "fails closed"
solenoid and a float, the second set cannot really stuck open and just gives a second chance to avoid a salinity increase when the Tunze osmolator fails
(especially if I left on a summer trip...). What is your opinion?
<I would not be concerned. These units have invariably "failed closed". Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Many Thanks!
Regards, Dominique
RO water for Kalkwasser auto-top-off - 10/17/05
Hi There,
<<Hello>>
I have perused the FAQs but have not seen a direct yes or no as to whether RO water can be used to automatically refill a kalkstirrer without pre-aerating or buffering. I am sure I have seen schematics on manufacturers websites showing an RO plumbed directly to a kalkstirrer.
<<It sure can be added straight in.>>
Thanks for your help
David
<<TravisM>>
Auto top-off - 10/11/05
Are there any auto top-off devices that can be attached to the output of a reverse osmosis filter?
<<A float valve would work well for you. I believe Kent makes one. Almost all online dry good vendors stock them.>>
D'Wayne
<<TravisM>> Top-off system
Hello Crew.
<Hello Franz>
I am trying to simplify my current make up system (I currently have none) and am thinking of the following: I have a 20gal sump for a 120gal reef. I am placing a 12gal container next to the sump, with a float valve for RO/DI water and an overflow to the drain in case the float fails.
<Good idea>
The container will also contain a continuously running powerhead and airstone. From this container I have a powerhead with a hose to the sump that I will manually turn on when I feel I have a need for top-off in my
sump. This is a huge step form what I am doing now. I plan to automate this part as well with one of those electronic systems that measure the level of the sump and then activate a metering pump from the fresh water reservoir. The Tunze Osmolator looks sweet but expensive. However, I have read in other FAQs that top-off water must not only be aerated for 24-48
hours, but must also be buffered so as not to deplete the alkalinity of the tank. I have a calcium reactor so I do not use
Kalkwasser. Would you suggest buffering my top-of with Kalk or just with an Alkalinity buffer like Coral Builder, etc? Should I also add calcium to the top-of water?
<Franz, I would buffer the water and since you are using a Kalk reactor there really is no need adding calcium to the top off water. James (Salty Dog>
Thanks for all your help and knowledge. Cheers, Franz
- Kalkwasser Top-off -
Hey how's it going. <It's going.> Well I'll make this short & sweet since I
know you guys are busy. I'm looking to add Kalkwasser to my make up water. I
have a five gallon bucket with a powerhead attached to a hose that feeds my sump
water when the float switch sinks below water level. I want to add Kalkwasser to
the make up water but the water that is added ranges from roughly 2-9 oz. at a
shot. My tank is a 37 gallon cube with a 8 gallon sump. If I do this would I be
adding Kalkwasser too fast. Any ideas, if not, I'm probably going to go with a
calcium reactor. <I'm not a fan of combined auto top-off/Kalkwasser systems.
Think, especially with tank of this size that you'd be better off adding your
Kalkwasser manually and leaving your top-off system as it is.>
Thanks
Oscar.
<Cheers, J -- >
- Kalkwasser and Auto Top-off, Follow-up -
Thanks for the reply, but isn't that the same as using a Kalk reactor, you are still dosing
Kalk in your auto top-off? <Uhh... that was not my suggestion at all. I proposed that you add all your
Kalkwasser by hand.> Don't they use dosing pumps as well? <I believe that
Kalkwasser reactors "can" use a dosing pump, and are suggested to run as part of a top-off system, yes.> The float I was referring to would be in the top off
reservoir not the sump. <Understood. Cheers, J -- >
Auto top-off
Hello, hope everyone is well. I have been doing some more thinking about a auto
top-off system for my 180 reef, I appreciate the earlier feedback and have
abandoned that approach (adding another stage to the RO/DI unit). I purchased a
Nautilus dosing pump from Innovative Aquatics and will use that to dose from a
fresh water reservoir to my sump. The reservoir will have a float switch that
will be fed water from the RO/DI unit. My question concerns adding Kalkwasser, I
wish to top off all evaporated water with Kalk but am not sure how much/often to
add to reservoir? The reservoir holds 12 gal and I planned to add 12 Tsp of
Kalk. As the fresh water is replenished by the RO/DI the solution will obviously
weaken, is there a way to know how much Kalk to add? I do not want to overdose,
any suggestions? <I'm not really a fan of combined auto top-off/Kalkwasser
systems. It's my opinion that one should not "dose" anything on autopilot,
especially things that can throw off your pH or cause toxic effects - what if
your float switch broke? I think you should dose the Kalkwasser manually and let
your top-off system operate on its own.> Thanks again for such a great website.
<Cheers, J -- >
Maintaining Water Level Question
Hello WetWebMedia Crew,
Is it possible for you to look at my attachment and tell me what you think of my
idea for an automatic water top-off?
<Yes, took a look at the file. As long as it is a clearly labeled
non-executable file, I will open it.>
If not please let me know and I will explain as best as I can. :)
<I have seen many similar designs/variations using Polar water bottles, Pepsi
bottles, etc. Should work fine as long as the air vent part on the water vessel
is closed air tight.>
Thank you! James
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Float Switches
I am trying to set up a float switch for my tank, so the evaporated water can be
replaced at the proper level. Do you know of a company that has a product that I
could use with saltwater?
<many places sell these nifty devices... Premium Aquatics, Custom Aquatic and
Champion Light and Supply just to name a few>
Also the tank that I am pumping from with fresh saltwater is 3 ft. below the
main tank. Is there a pump that would be able to handle 3 ft. of head pressure?
<many will.. even some powerheads. Just look over the mfg specs and find one
that provides the desired flow rate at that head for you.>
Thanks, Again
<always welcome, Anthony>
RE: Introducing fish
Bob, I have a question about water level. What I was planning to do
is mix saltwater in a large size bucket with heater, air stone and sump pump
and set it by my tank. So when I do water changes I don't have to be mixing
and waiting for 48 hrs.
<Mmm, good idea... I'd wait longer... Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm>
Here is my dilemma. I have a skimbox that I use with
my Eco Sys. it works great. However because of evaporation, my water level
affects the performance of my Eco System. Is there a mechanism or water
level indicator that I could use to automatically replenish the water I have
lost.
<All sorts... everything from inverted plastic bottles with make-up water in them, to automated electronic float switches and pumps...>
I would have to hook it up to my sump pump. I am thinking of
connecting it to my premixed saltwater set up. I believe it is approx. 1/2
to 1 gallon of water the tank will loose. The salinity would go up a little
but not enough to be concern about since I perform 10% water changes every 7
to 10 days.
<Check out Knops products, FAMA magazine, the various DIY sites (like Oz' Reef), bulletin
board/chatrooms on the Net... many designs available. Bob Fenner> | |
|
