Annularis Angel, James' go
Hey crew, on the last question I forgot to mention in previous email:  How do
you feel about putting an annularis angel in a 65g FOWLR setup?  He will be
one of only about three other smaller fish, I really can't seem to find any
angels I like that don't outgrow my tank and he's the smallest so I'm really
considering him? <I've search a few sites and the Annularis (Blue Ringed Angel) can attain a length of 12'. They are considered hardy as far as the angel family. Myself, I would prefer the Blue Girdled Angel.  They would fair a little better in a 65.  Your tank size is slightly below borderline for any of these angels as they will grow.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks <<This is a VERY POOR choice IMO... James, see WWM, the web, references re. RMF>>

Blue Ringed Angel
Hey Jim, blue- girdled angel? That's received a (3) rating and a "difficult maintenance" from everywhere I have researched. So, that angel is HARD to keep and dies often and mysteriously within a month or two. Why would I take my chances on something that has a poor and dismal survival rating. Are you sure you're knowledgeable about this particular thing and you should be replying to emails? And next time try to be a little more professional. 
<Jay, I probably was in err suggesting that to you. My basis for that lies with other people and myself who have kept them. Together we felt they were not that difficult to keep as far as angels go. No angel is easy to keep. But also keep in mind that all other parameters have to be strictly maintained. That is a 125 or larger, pristine water quality along with 10% water changes and an excellent diet. The tank also needs to be loaded with live rock and been set up at least six months. I'm wrong in suggesting that since I don't know your experience or skill level. Most newbies (if you are one) generally will not go through the work necessary to maintain this fish and therefore the fish would probably rate a three on a one to four level. I do try my best to give professional, informative and safe suggestions in my responses. But since I am human, the chance for error can exist. My apologies, and you should stick with the Blue Ringed Angel or a Koran which I would rate at a two level in degree of difficulty. James (Salty Dog)>

Bad advice
Bob,
Probably wrong, but I based this on my having kept a couple of Blue Girdled and on advice from a few site who sell these type angels.
<Mmm, well, this is what you should do... and folks' experiences do vary... I assure you though... as recorded on the Net, in print... that the subgenus that includes this fish... almost never thrive in captivity>
Then again, if LFSs want to sell them instead of flushing them down the toilet, they are not going to tell you they are difficult. But anyway, the two I've had lived a few years before they outgrew my 125 and had to be sold. They readily accepted any food I gave them. Quite possible that I was lucky, don't know. Thanks anyway for the response, and I will always keep this in mind.
Regards, James (Salty Dog)
<Thank you... will archive this with our input. Bob F> 

A very hardy marine Angelfish - Annularis (Blue Ring) 2/16/05
Thanks for the quick and accurate response Anthony. Let me ask you another question while your here, lol. I asked this before but the other person didn't seem to be too familiar with this angel. Would it be ok to start (I know it will eventually grow out of the tank) off a 5 inch annularis (blue-ringed) angel in a 65g FOWLR with about 65lbs of rock? 
<the fish is fantastic... but the tank is way too small! Do a search for this angel on fishbase.org... see the adult size and do consider that a strong swimming active fish of even 5" is too small for a tank scarcely three times as wide as its length. It would be a disappointment to see such a beautiful fish placed here>
If it is ok to START with, at what size/inches should I take him out and find him another home or get a bigger tank? 
<many well intended folks mean to get larger tanks in time, but never do (life, business, money, family, etc). PLEASE do not take any fish into your care that you cannot properly house from the start. They grow fast mate... or they stunt when not given proper care (and die prematurely). A minimum of a six foot long tank please>
There will only be one other medium sized butterfly in the tank and some really small bottom/rock dwellers. Thanks a lot Ant
<I do hope you can keep this fish... they are fabulously hardy, long lived and so beautiful. Best regards, Anthony>

Pomacanthus annularis query
Hey crew, on the last question I forgot to mention in previous email:  How do
you feel about putting an annularis angel in a 65g FOWLR setup?  He will be
one of only about three other smaller fish, I really can't seem to find any
angels I like that don't outgrow my tank and he's the smallest so I'm really
considering him?
Thanks
>>>Hello Jay,
P. annularis is not a beginner's angel number one. Number two, your tank is much too small to accommodate one for any significant period of time. If you can't find a dwarf angel that you like...well I'm worried about you quite frankly Jay. :)
Consider C. acanthops or C. argi. Both are attractive, very small and VERY hardy. The only caveat being that they are rather aggressive, but this usually isn't a problem if they are added last. Just don't keep them with very shy fish.
Good Luck
Jim<<<

Annularis Angel, James' go
Hey crew, on the last question I forgot to mention in previous email:  How do
you feel about putting an annularis angel in a 65g FOWLR setup?  He will be
one of only about three other smaller fish, I really can't seem to find any
angels I like that don't outgrow my tank and he's the smallest so I'm really
considering him? <I've search a few sites and the Annularis (Blue Ringed Angel) can attain a length of 12'. They are considered hardy as far as the angel family. Myself, I would prefer the Blue Girdled Angel.  They would fair a little better in a 65.  Your tank size is slightly below borderline for any of these angels as they will grow.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks <<This is a VERY POOR choice IMO... James, see WWM, the web, references re. RMF>>

Chrysurus angel... in a reef?
hello there crew!
I had a quick question about the goldtail angel (Pomacanthus Chrysurus).  Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with reef  tank inhabitants?
<Have seen one that was, long term... in a friend's large system whom you've likely heard of. Leng Sy of EcoSystem Aquarium>
I know that some angels can get along in a reef such as majestics and imperators.  I mean I've seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category.  The tank will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy fauna.  It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaay to small for this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g refugium.  All I'm asking is "can it be done" if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual, small initial size, etc.)?
Chris AKA Fishtank
<Can be. Bob Fenner>

Re: Chrysurus angel... in a reef?
hello there crew!
I had a quick question about the goldtail angel (Pomacanthus Chrysurus). Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with reef tank inhabitants?
I know that some angels can get along in a reef such as majestics and imperators. I mean I've seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category. The tank will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy fauna. It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaay to small for this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g refugium. All I'm asking is "can it be done" if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual, small initial size, etc.)?
Thanks for the help and quick response :)
Chris AKA Fishtank
hey bob do you think you could give me the specs on Leng's tank?  I'm willing to bet he was using an ecosystem filter system, but were there any other key aspects in that tank?
<Mmm, best to cc Leng here. Have done so. The specimen/s I saw in his tank... it was about five by five by two feet overall... had a BUNCH of soft and stony corals in it. Leng? Bob Fenner>
 

Marine Angel ID, info Howdy! I am still trying to figure out what kind of angel I have in my tank. One year ago, I was told this was probably a Blue Face angel. At least, a Pomacanthus. Now "she" has a yellow tail, and it looks like the tummy is turning yellow, as well as behind the head. <This is a very nice Chrysurus angel. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/ pomacanthus/Pomacanthus.htm> How do I know if this Pomacanthus is a "Blue Face" (xanthometopon) or an "Ear Spot" (chrysurus)? Or even another variety? I can only judge by the pictures, and none seem to match. I know, the only way to be absolutely positive is to wait until the fishie is an adult. However, I want to make sure this fish is getting the right foods; she eats ANYTHING I put in my tank, if I use my feeding tongs. I can't even move rocks with the tongs, because she eats the rock! Polyps, algae, Xenia, flake, Mysis shrimp, Caulerpa (all sorts) - seems like anything and everything. Thanks for your help! - Cathy in Texas <>< <Do try some of Pablo Tepoot's "Spectrum" foods (the small then medium pellets)... Having just come from a visit last weekend with him in FLA and seeing his fishes... am inclined to believe his foods do help reverse the effects of neuromast degradation (HLLE), which this specimen is beginning to show signs of. Bob Fenner>

Daddy's Little Angel...
Hello to all of you, I received my early Father's Day gift today, my second Blue Line Angel.
<A great gift- and a beautiful fish!>
I lost my other about a month ago to a bad case of ich. I communicated with Anthony during my trying to cure him and found out that I may have contributed to his early death. I noticed early on that he had started to breath rapidly so I gave him two FWD's w/formalin  then put him in a hospital tank with copper on day three. He progressively got worse and died shortly thereafter, Anthony indicated that perhaps my error was the administering of the copper. For my clarification, I was under the impression that just  pygmy angels were sensitive to copper and the large angels were more tolerant. Can you clarify?
<I think what Anthony was referring to was the dosage of copper...This medication must be administered very carefully, and regular testing must be done to assure that you are using a proper therapeutic dosage (not toxic, and not too dilute). If dosed without testing, the copper can have deadly effects...>
After a three hour drip acclimation my new 5-6 inch angel is in a 18 gallon quarantine tank. He has a reddish pimple like bump on his front  lower lip but does not look like an abrasion or blunt trauma. I didn't want to subject him to a FWD after his long journey thinking I could wait another day after he has settled in.
<I understand your reluctance to subject him to another, possibly traumatic, experience. However, why get him settled in for a day, and then subject him to stress again? If it were me, I'd do the dip ASAP, and get this stressful stuff over with sooner, rather than later (assuming that a FW dip is in order for this malady). On the other hand, without a pic, it's hard to visualize what this bump could be...parasitic or something else...? You'll really have to do some research on this on the WWM site to get a positive ID. In fact, before ANY treatment is undertaken, you'll need to really get a feel for what this is that you're dealing with...>
I filled his tank with water from my display tank and had the foam filter block in the sump for a week to a week and a half, do you think the foam block was in the sump long enough to be properly "seeded"?
<I think so...And, if need be- you can always add a bacteria "culture", such as "Cycle" or "Fritz Zyme", to help supplement or "kick start" the filtration if you are experiencing ammonia or nitrite readings..>
Last thought/question, HA. I'm thinking that I should just keep a close eye on him rather than subjecting him to a FWD and or medication. Any thoughts?
<We're on the same wavelength, dude! Observe and analyze, then treat, if required. Take it slow and careful, but be prepared to react quickly and decisively if the need arises...>
Hey there Anthony, if your listening! Steve Suniga
<Here is your shout back from Anthony, channeled through me.."<G>"...Good luck with your new angel! Regards, Scott F>

Blue Line Angel in small quarters
Hello fellows,
<Good morning to you!>
I have a few questions if you'd kindly answer. I received yesterday a blue line angel from the Marine Center. The fellow told me it should do just fine in my 55 live rock system.
<Wow, kind of small for such a large fish. I would not recommend any large Angelfish in anything under 90 gallons.>
It would appear quite large for that to me, but I have no choice. The individual in question is a good 5 or 6 inches in length, beautiful, alert, and slightly skinny possibly as a result of shipping. Randy at Marine Center told me it was eating well for a month there. He also said he wouldn't expect it to eat anything for a week or so in its new home. Is this the norm?
<Not for me. I would expect any healthy fish to eat in a few days.>
Should I be comfortable with this?
<I would begin offering various foods the day after introduction.>
He said Mysis shrimp should be taken by the end of the week and other foods as well. Is this a hardy fish?
<Generally, a hardy Angelfish, although the stress over confinement in this small tank may prove too much for this individual.>
I was told it was. Do you have any experience with it?
<Yes, a great fish, slightly under appreciated in the trade/hobby for more exotic looking species.>
Sorry for the rambling length of this letter. I just really want the fish to do well, due to the fact it is amazing and all. LOL. Thanks, Brian
<You can read more about this species here:
http://www.wetwebmedia. com/marine/fishes/angels/index.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia. com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm
I would look for a larger tank or another home for this specimen. -Steven Pro>

Chrysurus angelfish
Hello, I am thinking about getting a large or extra large chrysurus angelfish from the marine center, and was wondering what would you rate it's hardiness from 1-10. Do you know of any other place I can get one besides the marine center since they cost a pretty penny, although I know they all cost quite a bit. Thanks!!!
<Not sure where they would place on a scale of 1-10, but I know they are one of the hardier Angelfish. The link below is to a list of "The Best Angelfishes For Marine Aquarium Use"
http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm
Depending upon the tank size and other fish that you have in the tank already it should be ok. I would not put it in anything smaller than 100gal, or with any other large angels. I am not familiar with any suppliers of the chrysurus. Good luck in your search, Gage>

An Angel or A Bad Apple?
Howdy Mr. Fenner (and rest of Crew),
<Scott F. here tonight>
Book is great, as is the website...  Question about the chrysurus angel (ear spot angel) I am thinking about purchasing one (actually Christmas present from mom) for centerpiece of tank(180) with a few barberfish as tankmates but in the your book Conscientious marine aquarist, you call it one of the "bad apples" of the Pomacanthus genus, but in the website it gets a (1) and "seen rarely in the trade, and that is a shame" .  Just want to figure out which should go by, as it is a rather pricey animal and wouldn't want to risk it if still considered "bad apple".  Also how aggressive is  this particular genus???
<Pomacanthus Angels in general are the "Alpha Fish" of whatever tank they inhabit! This angel can be a bit more "Chippy" than some of the other larger angels, but they do settle down and make beautiful specimens. They are relatively simple to keep; however, this is largely a function of how they were collected and handled...Since they hail from East Africa and Seychelles, they can be rather uncommon, and usually suffer from the rigors of shipping more than, say, a fish from the South Pacific. Do make sure that the fish is eating well and has taken several types of food at the dealer before you take it home. Finally, due to its large size, you may actually need larger quarters(1) for it to comfortably live out its entire lifespan. If the fish was properly handled by the collector, transhipper, and dealer, you stand an excellent chance of having a showpiece angel for many years to come.>
Thanks again for all the information
Gary Peterson
<And Thank you, Gary, for stopping by!>

Annularis Angel
Thanks for the answer. On your site it says the annularis reach eight inches, do they get bigger than this? 
<much bigger in some cases. On the Reef they can reach almost 20"!!! Even half of this in captivity is quite large. A good hardy fish but needing a huge tank>
Or is an eight inch fish too big for an 80 gallon tank? 
<an 80 gallon might only support this fish for the first 2-3 years of its life. You will need a 6 foot long tank in the near future. See here for more specs: http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=
7902&genusname=Pomacanthus&speciesname=annularis >
Thanks rich.
<best regards, Anthony>

Baby Blue Angel
Greetings Boys,
<Hallo... Sailor!>
Just some help on how fast this baby will grow. I work at a pet store and am considered the Marine expert, 
<we all have our faults... we forgive you>
however I don't think my 8 years makes me an expert by far. 
<you have valid and important experience... and none of us our experts. All aquarists are pioneers :) >
Especially considering how often I email you guys :) . Anyway, on our order we ordered a Med. (3-4") Navarchus angel which I have taken care of and kept more than healthy before. However, we got sent a baby blue by mistake which they did not charge us for and said we could have, 
<very cool>
this was a first from Quality Marine for us. 
<I like Quality Marine very much... a very good wholesaler overall>
All good I suppose. This blue angel is extremely beautifully colored and healthy looking, the first potential problem however was that he was only about 1.5" long, NOT a good fish size. 
<agreed>
But in the last 3 years I have been good at getting hard to keep fish to eat (a Moorish Idol being my pride and joy at home). The little guy was put into a tank of mine and not at the store, I didn't want him in a community tank until I new he would eat and until he got some size to him. And like I hoped, that night he was eat, I was surprised as hell. He enjoys seaweed select, formula 1 and 2, brine shrimp and even took a few flakes on the 4th day. 
<please don't feed brine shrimp to any fish that you hope will survive longer than a year...heehee. It is truly a hollow and useless food (adult brine). Its a shame that fish respond so well to it... like Americans to fast food!>
He is without flaw and I am VERY pleased with him. Now for the question, the only free tank I had in my personal possession with 5 months of cycling on it was a 72gal bow front. How fast do blues grow per month and what is the minimum tank they will need to flourish? 
<he'll be fine in this tank for about a year>
I am thinking 155gal minimum but I think for a fish that will reach a bit over a foot at least 250 to make him happy. 
<agreed on the latter>
In my opinion a fish should be given what it needs to feel at home.
<indeed...saltwater fishes have been shown to need length of tank more than water volume to prevent stunting and premature death>
Kinda like the beta problem. A beta will survive in a 5gal jar, BUT will he be happy? 
I prefer to go with the happy size so I always encourage our customers to get more than what they need. There is nothing that makes me happier than to see a fish that is happy. Thanks for the help men.
John M.
<let me suggest that you feed this fish a diet rich in meaty foods while it is young for faster growth and as it is natural (small Blue angels are cleaner fish that eat parasites off other fishes). So... no brine shrimp, but any freeze dried foods and especially thawed frozen Gammarus and Mysid shrimp, Pacifica plankton and shredded krill. Best regards, Anthony>

Pomacanthus chrysurus
Hi Bob,
Its been a while since I have needed your advice, I guess that's a good
thing. I have a question regarding a new addition to my tank a Pomacanthus
chrysurus (from Africa), I got this fish from the Marine Center about 2 mths
ago. It was about 2 inches when I received it and has grown about an inch
since. While in quarantine, it developed a bad case of Lymphocystis. It's
whole body was covered and I was skeptical if it would make it, any way with
water changes and vitamin supplements (Selcon and VitaChem), it has
recovered quite nicely. My only concern is that disease affected one its
eyes, and it appears as though it has Popeye. I am sure its not because I
can see signs of the disease still on the eyeball. 
<This too may well resolve>
The eye is swollen, and
I am wondering if the fish could be blind in that eye. 
<Possibly... but as stated... may self-cure>
The other signs of
the disease have been absent now for the past week and I was wondering if
the eye just needs more time since signs of the disease are still present.
<Yes. Agreed>
Do you think the swelling will go down once the disease is gone or do you
think the fish could be blind as a result. Is there any way I can help
besides continuing to offer foods with vitamins.
<Not really... some folks might suggest adding other adjuncts to boost nutrition (HUFAs for instance) or Epsom Salt treatments... but time going by will likely do>
The fish is still in
quarantine and I think I will keep it there for until it gets bigger as the
stock in my display tank would hassle it (imperator angel in particular).
Please advise. Thanks Gill
<I'd place in the main system with live rock ASAPractical. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pomacanthus chrysurus
Thanks for reply, I hoped as much. The only thing is my imperator angel now
changing over to adult colors and gave the chrysurus a hard time the first
time I attempted to transition the fish to the main system.
<Yes... these two may well need separate quarters or a very large hobby-size system (several hundred gallons) to co-exist>
I had read of a
similar scenario on WWM and you advised that the fish be put the main
system, so I tried this, but felt cruel as the imperator was so hostile to
towards the new fish.
<Less cruel than permanently being in quarantine... the improved, more consistent water quality afforded in a larger system with live rock will/would likely spur recovery>
I took the fish out after about 10 minutes. I figured
being of like coloration and species was the problem. Also the imperator is
about 6 inches and the chrysurus in about 3 and possibly blind, do you think
I should try again. 
<Not unless this is a very large system (see above)... or you have another system to place it... similar marked/colored Indo-Pacific Angelfishes generally do NOT mix>
I could tolerate the new fish begin hassled for a few
days, but I don't want the imperator to kill it, since all odds are against
the chrysurus. There are plenty of live rock and caves, but the imperator
showed signs of aggression I have never seen in it before when I placed the
chrysurus in the tank. I was thinking of keeping the chrysurus in quarantine
until it got some size,
<This will make no difference... unless the system is huge>
but would much prefer to have it in the display
tank. The bottom line is I didn't do my research and I am having some
compatibility issues here. 
<Yes...>
Any hope for these two living together?
<Not much. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
again

RE: Pomacanthus chrysurus
The system is a 125 gallons, but I am planning on getting something no
smaller than 360 gallon when I move in a year. Could this be a temporary
fix to the problem, considering everything else. 
<Again... unfortunate... not likely. I might try mixing the two Angels together one more time... following this stated protocol: catch out the larger resident specimen, place/exchange it with the Chrysurus... move, enlarge spaces with the live rock to "open" the structure in the Imperator's absence... wait a week and recombine the two in the morning, with the lights off on the system, around the tank... or when you can be around for a few hours to keep watch...>
My only other option is to
set up my 55gallon and place the fish until I get a bigger tank. My
preference is to use the 125 gallon for now. Do you know of instances where
these fish have killed each other or is the hostility temporary. Please
advise. Thanks
<Many instances of damage and death. The aggression never ends, but can settle into tolerant occasional jousting. Bob Fenner>

Blue-faced Angel
Hello Anthony!
<cheers!>
THANK YOU for taking the time to reply! 
<my pleasure>
I didn't want to "lose" the sponge,
and both seem to be doing fine in a medium-flow area of my tank.
I had asked if someone could identify my fish by a picture, and I finally
found one on the WWM website! You guys are awesome - I haven't been able to
find anybody else that could identify this angel.
<Pomacanthus xanthometopon... AKA the Yellow-faced or Blue faced angel... a magnificent fish>
(http://wetwebfotos.com/Home?actionRequest=mediaView&ID=1914) (And also
attached) Now for a stupid question - is there a picture of this angel as an adult? 
<fishbase.org is a great fish reference...try here: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm? ID=5662&genusname=Pomacanthus
&speciesname=xanthometopon and on our site try here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/Pomacanthus/Pomacanthus.htm The last three picture on our page are a series of color changes for this fish (last one being a terminal adult)>
And a listing of what it eats? 
<a somewhat delicate feeder yet quite predatory and not even remotely reef safe. Needs a VERY wide variety of foods if it is to survive in captivity. Include meaty foods and greens and at least all of the following: Nori seaweed, Gammarus, Mysid shrimp, Pacifica plankton, Spirulina. There are some prepared frozen mixes that are good. On our site and in Bob's book there are some great recipes with vitamins too for you to home make a great frozen food. Sweetwater brand plankton (in a jar) is also quite good. Yes... a very wide diet is needed to keep this fish healthy and colorful>
Mine seems to like to eat tubeworms :(
<that's only the beginning!>
and anything "wavy", so I am wondering if I can keep a Xenia without the angel trying to eat it.
<unlikely>
Also, thank you for the info about the conference. I am not sure if I can attend - I would definitely like to see the exhibits! 
<most MACNAs you can see the exhibits without paying the full conference price (may or may not here)... you just cant get in to see the speakers. There are often one day passes too for Saturday which are great!>
If I do go, I will definitely stop by to see you!
Thanks again, and hope y'all are having a great summer...-Cathy 
<best regards! Anthony>

Timid Blue ring Angel
Hi, I have a blue ring angel. He is about 6 inches, eats but, I feel he doesn't get enough for his size. He just stays around the medium level of the tank (height) and gets small pieces, because all of the fish at the top are getting the bigger fishes. Is there anyway I can help it come to the top (like helping it feel more like home) so it can get more food? I have had him for 2 weeks. Thanks!
<With time he will become more at ease. Patience my friend. -Steven Pro>

Angelfish Follow-up (Pomacanthus)
Hi Steven, thanks for the information, but the research I did even on WWM site said the this species was rare but not found enough in the trade, so I took that as meaning that it was not a bad pick, ah well. From your knowledge are there any tips you can give as far as raising this species.
<Near reef tank conditions to encourage the fish to eat from the rock and feel comfortable.>
The chrysurus is about 2 1/2 inches and eats very well, I got it from The Marine Center in Texas and was very impressed with the fish itself and the way it was shipped. That was my first time ordering from them but Bob talks well of them so I decided to try them and I was very pleased.
<I, too, have heard nothing but excellent feedback about them. They would be my choice for rare fish.>
My plan is to leave it in quarantine, fading out the copper in about a week and keep it in the 30 gallon quarantine setup until the Emperor is done changing over. This will probably be by the end of the summer. The chrysurus will be the only occupant so it should be fine and seems quite at home at the present time. Do you think this will make a difference, since the coloration of the Emperor will be different by then.
<Not really. Marine fish fight based on needing common food. They establish a territory in which they can sustain a food source. Your Emperor will likely claim your entire tank and attempt to drive away any competitors.>
I intend to take on the challenge, and hope for the best with raising this species. Any advice would appreciated..
Thanks Gillian
<You are really going to have to make a decision which you one want more. Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Live Rock & Angelfish
Hey Guys,
How is it going?
<Pretty good. Hope all is well with you.>
I have a question about the live rock in my tank. My tank has been set up for about two years now, with live sand and live rock. The live rock some how does not look live anymore, the purple coralline growth is not as lush as it once was. Although the tank up as a reef with live rock/sand, I have no corals. I keep angels in this set up. I also keep live rock in my sump instead of the bio balls. My question what should I do to see growth and life form from these rocks, is there something I can add to help or do I have to replace the rocks. I want to see stuff growing from the rocks, is this still achievable or do I have to start over.
<Merely monitor and dose for calcium and alkalinity to encourage more coralline growth. I would wager that your angelfish are scourging the rock, too, hampering growth of all sorts of live creatures.>
Also, I have a juvenile emperor angel that is changing over and I have a juvenile chrysurus (spelling probably not right) angel from Africa I was told,
<Pretty close, Pomacanthus chrysurus, and it is found on the east coast of Africa. Sorry to say, an angelfish with a very mixed history, some report them as doing well others very poorly dying mysteriously in months.>
it has similar coloration to emperor although much smaller. It is now in quarantine and can probably stay there for a while as it about 2 1/2 inches small, my question is if I decide to put it in the same tank as the emperor is it likely that the emperor would bother it because they are of the same coloration.
<Very likely. Extremely likely. Not a wise choice.>
I ask because I notice in my LFS angels with like colors are often separated. The tank is a 125 gallon with lots of caves and holes for
hiding. Thanks for you help and keep up the good work. ~Gillian
<You are welcome. Sorry for all the bad news. In the future, better to solicit this kind of information before the purchase. -Steven Pro>

Question on Blue Ringed Angel
I introduced two new fish to my aquarium about a week ago.
<Without quarantining?>
My Blue Ringed Angel seems to be breathing heavily out of one gill and not the other. He would not eat frozen brine (usually not a problem) but did eat some Spirulina. I am worried about Oodinium which has devastated a previous tank.
<That or gill flukes, but considerably rarer.>
Would you add maybe a 20 percent dosage of copper or wait for more signs?
<If you do decide you need to medicate, you should always follow the manufacture's recommendations. Partial dosages are usually not effective.>
All other fish appear to be eating and I do not see much aggression among the other fish.
Any recommendations?
<Remove infected fish to hospital/quarantine tank for additional treatment/observation. -Steven Pro>
Will Cuellar

Question on Blue Ringed Angel II
Thanks Robert, this is California so a hospital tank is a nice luxury that would cost a ton. (Power cost)
<No need to be run 24/7. Can be drain and put away when not in use. All that is needed is a sponge filter tucked away in your sump or display for transfer to the quarantine/hospital tank when needed.>
This being said, I do not think its Oodinium. The fish looks like it has a swollen abdomen and the others are good. I did remove it to another friends tank.
<Was his tank empty, or is it now infected with this mysterious ailment?>
We are going to try neomycin. However, I am being told that fish usually never make it from the swollen abdomen. This obviously is an internal problem. I have heard this could be because the capture of the fish. Have you seen any fish recover from this, what do you think it could be, and is neomycin the correct medicine?
<Neomycin is an antibiotic and would be appropriate for a bacterial infection. Nothing comes to mind for symptoms of a swollen abdomen and gill problems. I have seen a case of a nonsymmetrical swollen abdomen which turned out to be cancerous, no treatment possible, but verified with a postmortem exam. My best advise is to get a copy of Dieter Untergasser's "Handbook of Fish Diseases" and work your way through the easy to follow Q&A/flow chart for diagnosis. -Steven Pro>

Question on Blue Ringed Angel III
last question (Friend actually had a hospital tank)
<A good thing to have handy, a fish friend and a hospital tank.>
where could I get a post mortem?
<I actually did it myself. The Untergasser book discusses the procedure comprehensively.> 
I am curious and wish to know more. thanks for the recommendation on the book.
<Here are two more for you. "Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish" by Bassleer and "Aquariology: Fish Diseases and Water Chemistry" by Gratzek and Matthews. I like Untergasser's better but these two are nice also. -Steven Pro>

Re: Injury to Blue-Ring Angel
Thank you for the personal response! I fed him this morning and he's eating
just fine. One more question: Should I feed him Anti-Bacterial Flakes from
Tetra just to keep him safe?
<A good idea. No harm>
It was half his lip and a very small portion of
flesh below his lip. Do you advocate the use of vitamin C and what do you
use on your fish for injuries such as this? 
<I do advocate its use (including for myself, other humans), and a full complement of vitamins in these cases. Preparations are made for pet-fish, but human-intended ones are the same>
I also read that puffers get
more aggressive over time, is this true? 
<In general, yes>
The Annularis is the dominant fish.
They are the only 2 fish in the tank besides 3 big blue-leg hermits, 2
conchs and 1 Astrea snail which I can't believe the puffer hasn't eaten yet
(he is very docile for a puffer)
<Most are and remain so in captivity... given foods they enjoy on a regular basis... the Puffer will/would first eat the invertebrates.>
Tank Parameters: 75 gal. long tank; pH 8.2; amm., nitrites and
nitrates nil; lights on 11-12 hours a day; protein skimmer runs
continuously; dead coral for decoration; minimal algae but tank doesn't look
"sterile"; phosphates are less than 10 ppm;
<Believe, trust you mean/t nitrates>
kH 125 MG/L.
That's about all the info I have right now. If you need to know
anything else just let me know. Thank You for your valuable time and
expertise.
P.S. What are your thoughts (if any) on Sano? My LFS. really
tries to push this stuff for problems with fish. I've been in this for about
20 years now (I'm 34 now) and it really has advanced especially in
collection procedures, for me less interference always seems to work best.
Also, I do water changes every 2 weeks.
<Have heard good things about this product, but don't use it. Bob Fenner>

Thanks
Mr. Fenner,
Thank You for helping me out with my Blue-Ring Angel (he had his bottom lip bitten off), He's totally healed up now and looks as great as ever.
<Ah, outstanding! Good to hear/read of the recovery. Bob Fenner>
Happy Holidays, Gary

Camel shrimp, Angel Selection
Howdy,
<Hi there>
First off really love the site, very informative. Three questions for you. First I tried ordering some inverts online as the selection in my area is horrible. I received camel shrimp instead of peppermint shrimp, will they eat/control the Aiptasia?
<Not an uncommon mistake, and no. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/aippepshrpfaqs.htm>
Second question: Like stated above, the fish stores in town have pretty scary conditions, so I was wondering if you have any recommendations for a good online retailer (kind of leery ordering fish by mail though?)
<A few of the prominent ones can be found on our links page: http://wetwebmedia.com/links.htm
I would read through the various chatforums, ask there (Ours: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/) for actual users input>
Last question: I read on this site that the blue face angel is not very hardy but the queen is better.
<Yes, "statistically"... historically this is so>
I have been told by several people the opposite? Which would be better for my 100 gallon tank. has appr. 80 lbs. live rock, 1 blue spot puffer, bicolor blenny, hermits, snails, serpent star) 
<Of the two, in 100 trials, ninety some times a Queen>
Only want to add a large angel and maybe a Christmas or coris wrasse to complete the tank.
Thank you for your time,
Sincerely,
Gary Peterson
<Keep gathering those data points, opinions till you feel confident you know your own. Bob Fenner>

Pomacanthus imperator and Pomacanthus maculosus
Hello bob,
my dealer had some show size angel and I fell in love with the 16 to 18 inches imperator and maculosus angel
immediately I saw them. do you think at this size( 16-18inches) are they easy to keep?
<Decidedly not as easy to keep as ones collected at "reasonable" (a few inches) in length and raised in captivity... Fishes (actually all animals) collected "large" are less adaptable to captive conditions... like food acceptance, getting along with other "novel" species... And shame on the collectors and retailers for extracting adults... leave these in the seas to reproduce.>
at the moment they look great. if you were me which one will you purchase? the maculosus or the imperator angel. and why?
<Mmm, neither... as I am morally opposed to their collection in the first place. Bob Fenner>

My Koran Angel
Hi Mr. Fenner,
Rick your reefing friend here again. I wanted to send you these pictures for
sometime now. No one I know has ever seen a Koran Angel quite like this one.
Can you identify it?
<Hmm, this is likely a tail-less (genetic) juvenile Pomacanthus imperator, not a Koran (P. semicirculatus)>
Is it a Koran Angel as it was sold to me? Notice the
odd shaped tail. I have never seen an angel with a tail shaped like this,
have you?
<Yes, though more in the wild than the trade... collectors, transhippers frequently not paid for less-than near-perfect specimens...>
By the way, these pictures were taken before the development of
HLLE which with your expert guidance seems to have reversed direction.
<Your expert care>
Thanks again for all your help and dedication to this most enjoyable hobby.
Your reefing friend,
Rick
<You're welcome my friend. Nothing to worry about re this specimen... It will develop into a nice Imperator, just one sans a caudal fin. Bob Fenner>

Re: My Koran Angel
Hello Again, no need for a response, you must be the busiest e-mail
recipient on the planet. 
<Bet Billy.G gets more>
I just wanted to thank you for the unbelievable
response time to my inquiry. I think I must have got the better end of the
deal seeing that my angel is a imperator, He seems to be doing very well
and has an insatiable appetite.
<Yes, appears to be a very healthy, well-adjusted individual. Will make a fine centerpiece>
I am looking forward to his colour change.
Again, thank you.
Your reefing friend
Rick
<Chat with you soon my friend. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angels Question...
Hi Bob,
I just purchased a beloved Asfur this evening. A real Beauty. I had been
fortunate to observe and put him on hold for 6 months at my dealer's store.
<Wow! A great species to have on hand for so long>
He is great. Nice and plump from eating everything you throw at him. He
shows the normal aggressive behavior and is my center piece.
<A good place>
I have 11 years
of Marine Experience and have kept several Big Angels. Some of my
accomplishments have been a Majestic Angel, Queen Angel, Koran Angel, and
Flames of Course. After setting up my 75 Gal (First Big Tank At least big to
me) I have added a 4 inch specimen with a maroon clown and a Fiji Devil. I
plan on adding a Desjardini Sailfin Tang, a Red Sea Raccoon (In keeping with
species from them same region)
<Great>
and a Bicolor Parrot or Hippo Tang. 
<Skip the Cetoscarus bicolor, go with the Paracanthurus>
Adding
all a couple of weeks apart to let the Bacteria keep up. Now to my
question. I have read much about the Asfur. I have read about there normal
habits and feed, etc. After seeing the size of the systems of those in the
QA portion 125+ I started to wonder about the size of my tank.
<Me too... I generally suggest a 300 gallon about now...>
I thought he
would be in for the long haul in my new tank but I am beginning to scratch my
head. I really am happy with a 75 and may upgrade a couple of years down the
road to a 110 (It will fit on the stand) but is the Asfur going to grow too
large? 
<Yes, psychologically ahead of physiologically...>
All of the material I have read stated that the Angel, in the wild,
normally attains the size of 6 inches or so and has even been associated as a
pygmy angel. 
<What? Nah... have seen them near their full size of sixteen inches in the wild, had ones of over a foot in length in captivity... Who do you recall making such statements? Please see Pomacanthus Asfur on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) and fishbase.org...>
I am really confused. I understand that there is a firm
distinction between the Asfur and Maculosus (Forgive the spelling) as it has
been nonchalantly avoided by questioners. The Mac, I understand, can grow to
18 inches, I have seen one that large. I have a large Wet Dry Unit with in
Sump Protein skimmer, a couple of power heads for circulation and an
Aragonite bed. I have even added a high powered pump for a gentle mist of
bubbles for added surface agitation to oxygenate the water even more then
the wet dry unit will provide. 
<Good idea>
Lighting is on a timed schedule (Power
compacts both white and actinic to stimulate algae for nutrition) There is
a lot of free swimming space and he is doing quite well (Even coming out in
the last couple hours and exploring his surroundings). He is fully shaped
and the colors are very prominent. No sign of infection, disease, or lost
finnage.
<Yes, this is likely a tank-raised individual out of the Far East... quite common nowadays, and fabulous>
Can you give me some advice pertaining to growth and true
classification. Hardiness is no question in my mind. Surely rivaling and
overtaking that of Navarchus (Her royal Majesty)
Thank you in advance...
<Do take a look on our site and fishbase... Growth can be six inches in a year to nine in two to eleven or so in three... Bob Fenner>
Mark, Maryland

Pygmy associated (re: Asfur Angels Question...)
It was referenced that the Asfur had been considered pygmy because of its
small size in The Book of the Marine Aquarium by Nick Dakin. 
<Wowzah! Nick is a much more careful writer than this... very surprising>
It is a
wonderful overview of marine keeping and very informative as far as the
advanced portion of the hobby. Julian Sprung was also an associate writer
on the book so the source seems correct and experienced.
<Well...>
Not that I am refuting your debate.
<Not refutable in this case... have collected this fish in the Red Sea, N.W. Indian Ocean over years time...>
Thanks for the info. Will check out your site.
<And most recent book which includes a Fishwatcher's Guide to the Fishes of the Red Sea... Bob Fenner>
Mark

Asfur Angel
I have a 5" Asfur angel in a reef. Its anal fin was
deteriorating, but has stopped and is getting
better. Now I'm dealing with ich, and cloudy eye. And
one of the eyes has a pale ring around it. I'm
thinking it might be pop eye? Any help would be appreciated.
<This is almost always a very sturdy species... From reading about your specimens condition, I'd closely examine the make-up of the systems water, set-up and maintenance. The root/base problem/cause here is not ich, not infectious, but the system itself... Bob Fenner>

Chrysurus Angel
Do these angels have a good survival rate?
<Yes, amongst the highest for the genus... Somewhere between an Koran and Emperor...>
I'm interested in getting one, but I'd hate to lose it
because of the large price tag. I believe they're
around 400-500$. 
<this is a bit steep... in US$? Should be about half this>
Do they adapt well?
<most small, 3-4" ones yes>
Should I add live rock to the tank I wish to place the angel in?
<Absolutely! A good few months before introduction>
Oh and why is there a picture of an Asfur angel in your
Maculosus FAQ page? just thought you'd like to know.
<Hmm, will have to look. Hmm, both the Maculosus page and genus Pomacanthus pages have them as they should be... The maculosus with lighter caudal, head chevrons... the Asfur with the yellow up on the dorsal, yellow caudal... Bob Fenner>

Gill growth
I wrote to you several days ago about what appeared to be gill inflammation
in my juv. Chrysurus Angel. It now appears to be a growth of some kind.
<Is this growth asymmetrical, growing out and beyond the fish's gill area? Perhaps some sort of tumorous problem... and difficult to assess or do much with... except optimize conditions and hope for remission...>
The growth is reddish and is now extending below the fish's gill. The fish
is still eating normally and behaving normally. Should I remove him from
the tank? Change his food? Pray for the best? I just don't know what to
do. I was wondering what course of treatment would be appropriate. Below
is the information that I sent in the first email.
<I would do the latter, and none of the first two>
As far as diet goes, what exactly is the best diet for the Chrysurus.
Information on this species is limited. He likes to eat anything we put in
the tank. Ocean Nutrition's Formula One, Prime Reef, Spirulina Formula,
Lifeline's green formula for herbivores, brine shrimp, Mysis shrimp,
plankton, krill, the dried green seaweed sheets, and his favorite, live
ghost shrimp. Should we add or remove anything from his diet? He is a
voracious eater, and is not picky.
<A mix of all you are offering and more is fine.>
All of the other fish are ok now. No signs of ich at the present time. It
is time for a water change, and I would like to know if you think it is
alright to remove the copper from the system at this time. It has been
about a week and a half since the copper was added.
Thanks for the help.
Dena Andrews >>
<I would stay the course you're on and hope for the best.
Bob Fenner>

Marine Questions
Hi Bob. I wrote you about 6 weeks ago regarding my then brand new 110
gallon saltwater all-fish setup. I added some live rock (Fiji) as you
suggested, and the tank just completed cycling last week. I have a few
Domino damsels and a beautiful 3 1/4" Emperor Angelfish (Pomacanthus
Imperator - still in full juvenile coloration) that I just added the other
day.
A few questions:
1. Assuming he was plucked straight from the ocean, approximately how old
is this Emperor angel that I have? I'm just curious. My guess is that
maybe he's about 1.5 years old???
<Likely much younger... a few months to maybe half a year... grow very quickly as young... or perish.>
2. If I put an 8" or 9" Emperor angelfish (the ultimate show fish I'd
like to have!) in with the juvenile Emperor (the Emperors are my favorite
fish, and I'm willing to take some risk!), do you think they'll get along OK
because of the size differences? There is plenty of room and hiding places
in the tank - and soon I'll be getting rid of the pesky little Domino
damsels (they are only there now to eat excess trial foods that the Emperor
may not eat - but so far the Emperor I have is a pig and eats just about
EVERYTHING!!!).
<Not a good idea... this system is too small for both these Emperors... and large wild-caught specimens adapt to captivity extremely poorly. Better to do as you're doing. Grow yours up from a juvenile.>
3. What if I put a juvenile (3" or 4" specimen) Majestic angel
(Euxiphipops Navarchus) in with the juvenile Emperor? Good chance they'll
get along? Or should I just go with a larger Majestic Angel? I know these
fishes are relatively peaceful (but difficult to keep overall) for large
Pomacanthids.
<Really, if it were my 110, I'd stick with one large marine Angelfish...>
4. Do you know of any method to determine the gender of large Angelfishes
and Butterflyfishes while they are still alive? Or is it impossible to tell
unless one dissects them?
<Some species show slight dimorphic, dichromic... structural and color changes/differences by sex... but generally no.>
5. Regarding garlic for fighting parasites - have you heard about this?
If so, what do you think of it, and have you yourself had any success in
treating sick fishes with this method? Or perhaps I should ask, have your
fishes remained parasite-free precisely BECAUSE you use garlic?
<Yes, and does seem there is something to it... But I don't rely on it use...>
6. I'm going to setup a 29 or 30 gallon quarantine tank for new arrivals.
What do you recommend for treating new specimens when I get them? Should I
keep them there for 1 week, or even longer? Should I treat ALL new arrivals
with copper solution (or do you recommend anything else) so they don't
affect my show tank upon introduction?
<Please see the materials stored on our site: Home Page re this issue... a big, important topic.>
Ultimately I want my 110 gallon to have 4 large angels, and maybe one
large butterflyfish and 1 large surgeonfish. I know it's a long-shot that 4
large Pomacanthids will get along, but I'm willing to try it nonetheless.
One dealer here where I live will be fairly accommodating if things don't
work out with the fishes I buy not getting along.
<Not really a "long shot" so much as a big strain... psychologically... sort of like locking you up in a big room (no doors or other Dear Bob,
I know its not unusual for centropyge without warning or reason to stop eating and eventually pine away and die, but is this the case for full size angels? I have an annularis angel that stopped eating for a couple of days, but now is feeding on limited amounts of brine shrimp. Any suggestions?
Regards, Jack
<Hmm, hopefully it will start eating again of its own accord... but I would try a couple of things: Soaking whatever foods offered in a vitamin/appetite enhancing mixture (like Selcon, Micro-Vit, even "Baby Vitamins" for humans), and open shellfish (store bought, for human consumption, pry it open, soak it, put it on the bottom), elevating the temperature to about 82F.... slowly lowering it as time goes by...  Bob Fenner, who asks you to write back... and will make other opinions known... if the Annularis doesn't resume feeding within a week.>

Marine angels
I have asked you about the personifer angel and the maculosus angel, the pet store I go to has both in stock. The personifer is 5-7" (I'm making the range broad because I'm bad at judging size) and the maculosus is a little larger, lets say 7-8" Both seem healthy, active, alert and disease free. Both are eating. I would love to get the personifer but you have told me that you would still lean toward the maculosus. I was wondering what the maculosus has that the personifer doesn't to make it such a wonderful species. I was also wondering if the size of the personifer was to large. Does the personifer have any advantages over the maculosus, except for my opinion that it is more beautiful, if I am being to neurotic, then feel free to say so. Any advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated
- Yaron Aronowicz >>
< The distinction on which is "better" is not based on any aesthetic attribute... Historically the maculosus has a better survival record... The size difference in this case doesn't make any difference. Both specimens are beyond what I consider "ideal size at acquisition"... but if both seem "well adjusted"... then they'll both adjust to being moved/resituated... but If you had one hundred of each to do an experiment with and places to put all of each in parallel/identical conditions, you would find the maculosus living longer...  Bob Fenner>

Prayer for a Koran in a Reef
Bob
I am in the planning stage of combining my 75 gal. FOWLR and my 55 gal. reef into a single 125+ gal. reef. The current inhabitants of the FO system are a large purple tang and a juvenile Koran angel, both of which I am quite attached to. My question is this: can the Koran be kept in a reef system, or will it eat the coral (polyps specifically)? It seems that I read this at one time or another, but I am not really sure, as it was long ago....
Tanks, Ryan Goltz
>>
You know, by and large I know that current sentiments side against the keeping of large Pacific (or any ocean) marine angels in with corals et al. reef creatures, but I'd definitely give yours a try. Have just spent another couple of weeks in Fiji, and you know what they have in/on their shallow water reefs? Koran, aka semicircle (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) angelfishes... and you have 125 gallons or so... Again, I'd go for it and if the angel develops a bad polyp habit, you can trade it in.
Bob Fenner