Re-Stocking Order for Larger Tank, Moving SW livestock   3/12/08
Hello WWM,
<Scott>
The standard 'you guys are wonderful' is definitely in order. The daily's are a must-read for any serious hobbyist. Thanks always.
I'm upgrading from a 75g to a 180g (FOWLR)
<Nice!>
My current inhabitants (way overstocked, but fortunately (with twice a week water changes) no problems over the last three years) are as follows:
7" Naso Tang
6" Foxface Lo
5" Red Squirrel
4" Niger Trigger
2" Picasso Trigger
3" Fridmani Pseudochromis
3" Bicolor Blenny
7" Eel Goby
<I'd get a few more Pholodichthys... are social>
a pair of Nemo Clowns that lay eggs every three or four weeks the past year or so.
Banded Coral Shrimp
(3) Serpent Stars
After cycling the new tank, what order do you recommend introducing these fish to their larger home? Also, what kind of time frame do you recommend between adding each fish?
Thank you again for all your help...
Scott
<Mmm, I'd move all... at once, along with the old substrate, rock, filter media. Bob Fenner>

Moving Fish To Larger Quarters 1/11/08
Hey guys,
<Hi Nick>
Long time reader, first time writer. I wanted to thank you for all valuable advise on this site!
<You're welcome.>
To the main reason for the writing, I am going to be upgrading my 75 gallon FOWLR to a 125 gallon FOWLR. Right now I have a Cascade 1500 canister filter, I am researching how to make my 29 gallon tank, that is just sitting there into a sump. By what I have read the sump will take the place of the canister filter? Right?
<It can, providing the sump is built to incorporate a filter pad and a place for chemical media.>
I will be upgrading my (I know crappy) SeaClone 150 protein skimmer....Which other skimmer's would you suggest?
<Euro Reef and Aqua C are good choices.>
My powerhead situation is good. Heater(s) situation is good also. I will be moving all the live rock, crushed aragonite, and live sand into the 125. Using the same filter for the setup in the first week. Here is a list of my fish.
8'' Engineer Goby (full grown, hopefully)
<Mmm, can grow up to one foot.>
3'' Maroon Clownfish
6'' Lunar Wrasse
3'' Blue Hippo Tang
3'' Clown Trigger
<Doesn't fit in with the others. One of the most aggressive fish commonly kept by aquarists. This guy can also grow to over one foot. As this fish grows, he will take over the tank, and good luck to anything that gets in his way.>
I have talked to a couple of the LFS here, (knowing that their advice isn't always the best). I was told one week would be sufficient enough, (after moving the rock, sand, and filter over) that I could move my fish to the new tank. Does that sound right to you? The plan is to leave some sand, and enough live rock in the 75, while the 125 is cycling. I also plan on using all the water from the 75 (not filling the 125 completely in the beginning). So only 50 new gallons of water, in the end. Any other suggestions on the process would be greatly helpful.
<Read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i6/Moving.htm
In future queries, please cap names of fish and other proper nouns. Saves us time if we
do not have to do it before posting. This tank may also become too small for some of it's inhabitants.
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Nick, and the family Fish!

Re: Lots of odd 180 gal Skimmer, Pump, and Sump Questions... Now, moving SW livestock  -12/14/07
Thanks for everything you do for marine hobbyists! I wouldn't have made it this far without you.
<Pleased to assist you Eric>
I've now got the 180gal tank with ~25gal sump (~200 gal total system) set up and my Euro Reef RS-180 skimmer is en route to my house. I've put the twelve 20-pound bags of sand in and it's settled (water is clear again). I'm planning to transplant all livestock, and live rock from my 2-year-established 55 gallon into the new 180 gal.
Here's everything that will be moved:
----------------------------------------------------
~70lbs of LR
~40lbs of live sand
Pagoda cup coral
Zoanthids (smallish colonies)
Green Mushrooms (Corallimorph)
large finger leather (1 foot tall and one foot in diameter when seen from above)
1 - T. deresa clam
1 - T. crocea clam
1 - Yellow tang
1 - 6line wrasse
1 - lawnmower blenny
My questions are about how to go about doing this...
Since I'm transplanting all my LR, a good chunk of the sand (into the new
refugium) will the new tank still end up going through a initial cycle period (high spikes of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?
<Likely not... But, if there's time, I would move a good deal of the current LR and sand (maybe half) to the new set-up and let it run there for a couple of weeks before moving the rest and the livestock>
My concern here is that most of my corals are attached to the LR and almost every piece of LR has something on it. I would hate to subject them to that sort of chemical catastrophe.
<I understand>
Would bringing over a lot of the water help to transfer the bacteria I'll need to help prevent said chemical nightmare?
<Yes>
I would think that transferring things slowly over the course of a few months would be ideal, but I don't think I can fully run both systems on the same circuit breaker (may have to run some extension cords from other rooms). Last time I tried to turn everything on, the breaker popped (well over 1,000 Watts in lighting alone between the two tanks).
<I would alternate the lighting... just have one system on at a time>
My 180 is running only the pump at the moment since there's nothing in there that needs light.
Any other suggestions on how to go about doing this?
<Mmm, yes... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/movelvstkfaqs.htm
and peruse the linked files above>
I'm sorry for seeming so... beginner-ish here, but I don't know the rules on this specific situation.
Thanks so much!
Eric
<No worries. Take your time here. Bob Fenner>

Tank size upgrade – 09/19/07
Hey
My name is Justin McLaren , I live in South Africa .
<Welcome to WWM.>
I just finished reading all the questions asked on your web pages and its helped so much . but my main question was not answered , it's a very simple question really ,I have a small 120 litre tank but recently purchased a new aquarium (750 litres) and it is running very smoothly and has been for 5 days . all my levels (ph,no3,no2,alk etc) are good . how much longer do I need to wait till I can transfer my fish to my new tank .
<Have you moved all the sand and rock from the old tank to the new tank? That might help speed things up a little, but you still need to wait for the new tank to cycle. Adding some new live rock, food or some other nutrient/ammonia source will also help. Keep measuring your ammonia, no3 and no2 until there is a peak of ammonia, then a peak in no2, then finally a slow rise of no3. Once the no3 stabilizes (or ideally goes to 0 again), that's when your new tank is ready. This could take anywhere from a week to 4 weeks. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupii.htm>
Your help will be much appreciated .
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Pondering a move... Shipping fish across country 8/28/07
Hi guys,
<Hi Allan, Mich with you tonight.>
Before I even think further about this I have to get an educated opinion.
<Well, my student loans would say I'm educated and I certainly have opinions! Heehee!>
I just upgraded my tank to 70gal marine, new sump, new skimmer, slightly larger fish load than my old 40.
<Congrats!>
Thinking of going to NYC to further my education,
<Always good!>
I live in So Cal now.
<Lucky you!>
This would happen in the dead of winter.
<Better you than me!>
Am I crazy to even think about moving the aquarium and fish?
<Personally I'd start with the moving from LA to NYC question. ;) >
As it turns out, my brother, back east, has a dormant 125-gallon setup, so I could leave the tank, take the sump (acrylic), pumps, chiller, lights, etc, and ship the fish?
<Would be the easiest way. More info here, not totally applicable but will give you some ideas perhaps:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i6/Moving.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movingaq.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movaqfaq.htm and related links in blue>
I've gotten very attached to them.
<I do understand.>
If school pans out, I could fly ahead, set up his tank a month or so before, get it cycling, then ship the fish just before I leave myself.
<This sounds like a good idea or you may be able to arrange for you LFS to ship them to you as well.>
Am I nuts to even think about this, or should I find a good home for them and start anew?
<Either are possibilities. Shopping is not unheard of. Doesn't necessarily make the most financial sense, but it does sound like it is about the money.>
Thanks, Allan in Los Angeles.
<Welcome, Mich in the Pocono Mountains of PA.>

Moving, lvstk. 7/31/07
I will be moving my 75 gallon reef aquarium next week and had a few questions. I have read your articles on the matter, but was wondering how long one could keep a Clownfish, Yellow Tang, and Tuxedo Damsel in bags without it causing a serious problem? Also, how long will the coral last in bags?
<This is going to depend on how large the bags are. When fish are shipped out from an etailer, they are generally in bags 4 hours and up before reaching the customer. The shipping bags are also filled with oxygen. I would advise not feeding the fish 24 hours before the move. I just transferred animals to a larger system, and I use a agricultural Rubbermaid tub as a holding system until the new tank set-up is complete. I'm not a fan of rushing the move, bad things seem to happen in this regard. I like to adjust the pH, SG, temperature, etc of the newly set up tank before transferring the animals, and, letting the newly set up tank run at least 24 hours before doing the animal move.>
Thanks for the information.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Stock Exchange? (Stocking For The Long Term) 6/6/07
Hello Crew:
<Hey there! Scott F. here tonight!>
I have a situation that is causing me to move my current fish to temporary housing for a couple months. The problem is that as much as I say that they will only be temporary I can not be 100% sure and would like to be able to house the fish for life in the "temporary" tanks if possible.
<An excellent strategy/practice. I commend you for being honest with yourself!>
Here is my plan for them. Please let me know what you would change if anything. I currently have two tanks- a 75 and a 55 and between the two I have the following fish.
1 Mombasa Lionfish
1 Lawn Mower Blenny
2 Percula Clowns
1 Pygmy Angel
1 Orchid Dotty Back
3 Green Chromis
1 Banggai Cardinal
1 Yellow Watchman Goby and his Pistol Shrimp
2 Cleaner Shrimp
5 Serpent Star Fish
Various snails and Crabs.
I have about 100lbs of Live Rock between the two tanks with about 100 lbs of Tufa mixed in that looks just like the live rock now. I plan on setting up a 26 Gallon Bow Front tank with 30lbs of the live rock, an Aqua C Remora and a couple small power heads. I will then add the Clowns, The Goby and all of the shrimp. I will also put in 2 of the serpent stars and all of the snails and crabs. I would love to add the Angel/Cardinal also but am not sure if they would fit.
<I would not add the Angel and Cardinal, myself. I think that this is too small a water volume for any more animals, and physically not enough space for the Angel, particularly when you take into account its potential for territoriality!.
If not what size would hold all of them comfortably for life, including the Dottyback?
<If "all of them" means the Clowns, Goby, shrimp, Stars and Dottyback, I would not go less than a (gasp) 55-75 gallon tank! How's that for an annoying answer!>
The second tank will be 30 if possible (can go bigger if you think its a must for the lion) and I will add the Lion, Blenny, and 3 of the Stars. Do you think the Dottyback would fit into this mix?
<I am concerned about the potential for them to become Lionfish snacks in a smaller system. I still would not go much smaller than a 55...Not the ideal answer, but I have to be honest with you.>
This tank will have about 30lbs of live rock a couple power heads and a Remora Skimmer as well. I will be giving the Chromis to a friend along with any of the other fish that you don't think will fit.
<Ahh, good.>
The Lion and the Clowns are my babies and the reason that I got into the hobby so both tanks are going to be based on their needs. Any advice is appreciated and feel free to mix up the stocking list to make it a better plan. I appreciate all of your help.
<This being said, I'd consider moving out the Angel, Dottyback, Cardinal and Goby. This way, you could keep the Lionfish in a slightly smaller system, without fear of it preying on other fishes. Notice that I said "slightly" smaller. Being a predator, it produces copious amounts of metabolic waste products, and you need a respectable water volume to help dilute them. Do keep thinking in the long term with your stocking approach- its a good practice for you and your babies! Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.

Transferring To New Tank...Cycle First Or Use Existing Media? – 05/21/07
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I am frequent reader of your website and I have a question to ask.
<<Okay>>
I have a 55-gallon tank with 2 Common Clowns,1 Bicolor Angel, 1 Bird Wrasse,1 Royal  Gramma and two Sailfin Tangs one yellow and the other one brown.
<<Too many active/large fishes for this tank>>
They all have done well for about four years.  I am now building a new tank of about  120-gallons.
<<Ah...much better>>
My question is how am I going to transfer the fish in the new aquarium?  Can I use the existing biological filter media?
<<This can be/has been done this way, though I don’t recommend it unless absolutely necessary and/or the aquarist is very experienced and well aware of the dangers re.  In addition to transferring the biological media, do also transfer as much of the old system water as possible.  Be sure to add chemical filtration (carbon/Poly-Filter)...monitor water parameters very closely for the next week...and have plenty of saltwater on hand that has been “mixed and aged” ahead of time for performing large water changes should the need arise>>
And if yes how long should I take to transfer the fish?
<<As long as it takes to transfer the media/water>>
Or should I recycle the tank from the beginning?
<<This is the best method, in my opinion>>
Thank you in advance.
Anthony Zahra
<<Happy to assist.  Eric Russell>>

Re: Corals as Carry-On? - 04/05/07
Hi
<<Hello Jorge>>
I finally heard back from the TSA on Carrying Live coral as Carry-on.  The answer was pretty Vague.  See Below:
Thank you for your e-mail.  
The Transportation Security Administration's current security screening procedures require all carry-on luggage and accessible property be screened before passengers take them onboard an aircraft.  Regardless of whether an item is on the prohibited or permitted items list, the Transportation Security Officers (TSO's) have discretion to prohibit an individual from carrying an item through the screening checkpoint or onboard an aircraft if the item poses a security threat.  Therefore, TSA security screening personnel make the final decision on whether to permit items like a live piece of coral into the sterile area of the airport.  Should you need additional assistance, feel free to contact us at toll free 866-289-9673.  Please visit our website at www.tsa.gov for additional information about TSA.  We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.  We hope this information is helpful.
TSA Contact Center
<<Mmm, so it would appear from this, the possibility of you carrying this coral aboard the aircraft is a matter of pure chance.  Perhaps if you post this question on the reef message forums (RC/reefs.org) you can find some folks who have tried this recently and get a better feel for how airport security is handling this situation.  Regards, EricR>>

Flying Fish? - 3/10/2007
Hello All,
<Hi Harry. Alex here today.>
I may be moving to Germany and I am wondering if it is possible to take my fish with me.  I know they can be moved if people are driving to their new home, but what about flying?  I have read a lot of stuff about transporting them on your website, but nothing seems to fit my situation, since we have to fly to get there.  I don't know where to begin.  It's a fresh water 10 gallon tank.
<This would be a MAJOR undertaking.  I would seriously consider other options first.  If this is not a permanent move, I would "hire" a trustworthy friend to keep the tank for you.  If permanent, I would sell the aquarium (things given for free do not have perceived value) and start over in Germany. Although possible, moving this distance is risky.  Read here re shipping mortality:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/frtloss.htm
So many issues to consider, including customs, flight times, cost, cracked tank, and likely fish death.  If I was going to attempt this, I might consider leaving the fish behind temporarily, setting up a system for them, and have them shipped to you after cycling the new tank.  Weighing the costs and benefits would lead me to find them a new home here.>
Thanks,
Harry P.
<Welcome! Alex>

Re: Flying Fish? - 3/11/2007
I don't believe there is much of a mail order aquatic culture in Germany and, as such, your fish might be further at risk.
Karen
<Harry, another vote for leaving your fish here.  Thanks for your input.  Alex>

Getting the Last Fish Out, Light Shock  2/28/07
Hi Crew,
<Hi Tom!  Mich here.>
I have the unpleasant task of removing all the fish from my reef tank to treat for a Crypt infestation.
<I'm sorry for your trouble.>
The latest addition, and only recent one, was a Mandarin that I did QT but obviously not well enough because a week later some of the others are showing Crypt. Here's a list of the fish we have in the 135G reef display:
Purple Tang
Hippo Tang
Percula Pair
Flame Angel
Royal Gramma
Yellow Watchman Goby
Mandarin
The Tangs were easy to trap, and I think I'll get the Clowns, Gramma, and eventually the Goby. I'm having doubts about ever trapping the Angel and Mandarin, and nets are useless. This reef tank is now well established with a lot of SPS coral that has fused rocks together, and just can't be broken down without doing damage...but maybe it will have to come to that. Since I'm going to have to get every fish out of the tank, do you have any advice or unusual tactics for catching them?
I hate to even ask this dumb question, but as an extreme measure is there any way to stun these last fish just enough to help capture them (e.g. cold, heat, anything?) without causing long term problems for the fish or the coral? I suspect the answer is "no", but in the past I've received Liveaquaria fish shipments where the bag water was down to about 60 degrees, and the fish were moving pretty slowly. I sure don't want to harm the fish, but I don't want to see them die of Crypt anyway, and slow down the fallow process just because I can't get them out.
<One method that I have heard that you might try is turning the lights off in the middle of the day when they are normally on.  Allow the lights to stay off for a period of time gather you nets, catch containers etc. and turn the lights back on.  This can induce a shock like state which may allow you to capture your... victims? ...I mean fish.  Don't know if this will work for certain, but I think it is worth trying.>
Thanks,
<Good luck!  I wish you success!  -Mich>
Tom

Broken Glass Aquarium Seal...What to do?  2/28/07
My 55 gal saltwater tank is losing it's seal (salt forming on outside edges/corners).  
<Sorry to hear that.>
I think this would be as good a time as any to change everything over to live sand in my new tank.
<If you have sand already in the aquarium...and have live rock, the microfauna fauna from the rock has likely made it's way to the sand.....you already have live sand.>
   I have about 30 lbs of live Fiji rock and fish in my current tank.
<...See above.>
I planned on borrowing a pump and heater to placing in my current tank and moving my rock in with the new sand and get it up and running. How long would I have to give the new tank/sand to adjust and should I use some of the water I currently have in my tank?
<I would get two rubber tubs (likely about 30 gallons in volume each.) Move as much water from the tank as you can evenly into each tub and compensate by filling with mixed water (preferably mixed a few days in advance). Move the livestock into one tub and the rock/sand into another.  I would perform daily water changes on each of 10% if not then 50% weekly.  Put powerheads and heater in each...make them as stable as possible your animals may be here for a while...if you can't do this see if an LFS will house them for a week, longer is they can.  Remove the tank to a garage or well ventilated area and remove the current silicone sealing and reseal, allow to cure for a few days. Then fill it with freshwater to check for leaks...if it leaks...do it again.  Once you have it right, set-up the tank as you would a new tank, utilizing your old rock. If want to utilize a new type of substrate/sand that is fine but I would add at least a few pounds of the old sand to seed the new sand.  At this point do not add the new fish yet, monitor the chemistry and when stable then acclimate them...much more is posted in detail on WWM.>
What sand do you like?
<Fine sized (sugar), aragonite based for most applications.>
How much sand for 55 gal.?
<Depends you want deep-sand bed (functional) or a shallow sand bed (aesthetic appeal)?>
Kathy DeMann
<Adam J.>

Moving a Puffer  9/25/06
Hi Again!
<Hi Suzie, Pufferpunk here>
Thanks for your help in previous times. In the next month we'll be moving across town, not a big drive. Read through your moving aquariums handout. Found it very helpful. Just wanted to ask if there are any specific parameters on how to move pufferfish himself--whether to bag him or bucket him. I understand netting is not a great thing with pufferfish. Just want to make sure his travel is safe as possible. We'll most likely set up a new house for him and cycle it before his arrival instead of transferring the old. We will transfer the old media and all that jazz. Thanks so much for your insight into puffer moves! Take care, Suzie
<I would catch him in a container & transfer in a bucket.  More than likely would bite through any bag.  ~PP>

Tank Upgrade issues... Tough Transitions... SW tank troubleshooting   2/1/07
Hey there hi there-
<Mmm ho there?>
I've searched the site for hours looking specifically for my issue. So here goes.
<OK.>
After years of dreaming and waiting I finally upgraded my reef tank.
<Congrats!>
I went from a 35 gallon corner to a beautiful yet still moderate 70 gallon oceanic starfire glass reef-ready tank.
<Very nice!>
I upgraded the sump and the lighting. When I did the big full day switcheroo sat 1/27, I had a ten gallon tank which I setup to house the corals and fish in. I transferred a large amount of sand to seed the new sand bed and appox 75%+/-  of the water in the old tank and also used BIO Spira to help out.
<OK.>
I waited about a day to transfer the corals, crabs and the fish. (I wanted to make sure the parameters were all in order so to speak) I made the transfer and the fish seem or seemed to be doing well until today 1/31, the regal tang (better known as baby dory) was MIA, the damsel is in heaven with all the space and the false Percula seems ok and the crabs and snails are moving around as well.
<MIA?!?>
NOW on to my problem.
<MIA isn't the problem?>
The corals seem to be struggling. The moon coral is shrinking up more and more, the torch coral is withdrawn and just generally all of the corals don't seem to be too happy in there. I tested the water and everything is literally near perfect.
<Perhaps everything you tested for, but obviously everything isn't near perfect.>
Ammonia is 0ish, <ish???> no nitrites, nitrates, alk is 3.9, calcium is a little high at just above 500, ph is 8.0-8.2 and salinity is 1.024
<Water temp?>
The only thing that I can think of at this point, in retrospect is that the water in the 10 gallon housing tank was colder than the 70 gallon at the time I made the transfer. I am hopeful that it won't be the demise of my gorgeous corals that had done so well.  
<Usually the corals will recover quite quickly, with in a day or so, from a temporary change in water temp.  But it could be related to temperature.  Have you double-checked your thermometers?  Did you change the setting of your heaters and perhaps the new tank's temp is being maintained at a higher or lower temp than before the switch?  Or maybe your Ammonia isn't exactly zero?  Are the coral now getting hit with more water flow than they did previously?  You said you upgraded your lights, I would place the corals lower than they were previously to prevent light shock.>
The anemone was splitting itself in the other tank, the mushroom split as well and everything WAS living amazingly.
<OK.>
Is it just a matter of acclimation at this point?
<It could be.>
Is there anything else that I can do to "help" them out?
<Keep an eye on all your parameters and check how you water flow is being directed.  Other than that, time and patience will most likely be the best thing here my friend.>
Have I completely screwed everything up?!?!
<Hopefully not!>
Thanks in advance for any advice and help
<Hope this helps.  -Mich>

Re: Rearranging Live Rock, temporary storage.   1/5/07
Hello WWM,
<Hi Valerie, Mich here.>
I am on the verge of rearranging my reef tank because the rock wall I started with has too many dead spots.  
<OK.>
I have a 220 gallon tank and maneuvering the rock is going to be a chore.  
<Yep.>
To add to this problem, I have approximately 15 soft corals to move around in the process.  
<Yep.>
Without removing all the water from my tank, I'd like to set up a separate tank to store the rock and corals in while I aquascape.
<Excellent idea.>
Do you have any recommendations for this process, such as salinity, temperature, lighting and pumping for the separate tank.
<Mmm, how long do you think this process will take you?  I wouldn't think more than a few days at max.  I would match temp and salinity to your 220.  I would use a large Rubbermaid type container/s to temporarily hold the LR and the corals.  Placing a powerhead in each container would be a good idea along with a heater to control temp.  I would not worry about lighting if you can complete the rearranging within a couple of days.>   
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
<Hope that helps, -Mich>
Valerie

Moving/Long Transit of Marine Tank and Livestock – 10/12/06
I am about to undertake a 20 hour move from Sydney to the North Coast of Qld (Mackay).  I have a 120 gallon reef tank and the plan is to ship the rock in large plastic containers with water, the coral in individual containers and the fish in individual containers.
<<Sounds like a good plan thus far>>
I have access to a large number of Tupperware style containers (unused) that range from 1 - 2 gallons.  Will these be OK to move livestock in (one item per container)?
<<They will...but regardless of the type container used to move the livestock, you will need to have extra water available for one or (better) two water changes along the way.  A container large enough to hold the amount of needed water and fitted with a portable/battery operated airstone to keep it aerated will be necessary>>
Is it also advisable to use an ammonia lock additive such as Seachem Prime and products such as Seachem Stress Guard to assist in reducing the risk of problems with the fish?
<<You can use the Stress Guard, but I wouldn’t use the Prime here>>
I plan to have large containers full of water set up with a skimmer and basic filtration prior to the move at the new house to have a somewhat established system to hold the livestock into prior to setting the tank back up.
<<Very Good>>
I also plan to not feed the fish for two days prior to the move to reduce the waste they produce during the move.
<<Another good idea>>
I am keen for any advice as I am already stressing out about the move and have not even started yet.  Thanks for any advice you can give.
<<Do arrange/allow for a couple water changes; 20 hours is too long to leave the livestock in small unfiltered containers.  Otherwise, it sounds to me like you have things well in hand>>
Marc
<<Regards, EricR>>

New Marine Tank...Decisions, Decisions II - 05/24/06
Thanks for the reply.
<<You're welcome>>
I don't really want to setup a complete tank to hold my fish and corals in while the "new" tank cycles.
<<Perhaps a fellow hobbyist/LFS can house them for you>>
I read about moving a tank and I was wondering if it would not be possible for me to keep my fish and corals in a separate system while the new tank cycles the best way to introduce the fish/corals into the new tank and new water (half new anyway).
<<?>>
Sorry that last sentence was a little confusing.
<<Indeed>>
What I mean is would it be better to set up the new tank with some new water and let it run for a few days then do the transfer or would it be better to transfer everything and slowly add the new water.
<<Were this me...I would set up the new tank and install all the support components (sump/fuge, skimmer, lights, etc.)...add water and "new" substrate...then "seed" the new tank with some "old" water from the old tank (about 10% by volume) and some of the old substrate (several cups...more if you wish), as well as transfer about half of the live rock...toss in some shrimp pellets...and let things go to work.  By seeding the new tank from the old in this way you can significantly shorten the nitrogen cycle associated re...sometimes to a week or less.  Once the new tank cycles, "slowly" begin the transfer of the remaining live rock and livestock over the course of about a week.  Take things slow and keep an eye on water quality as you go>>
Basically what it comes down to is I want to make this the least amount of pain in the hind end to me and I also would like to keep my fish/corals as happy as possible through the process.
<<Mmm...the two don't always go hand-in-hand>>
To sum the whole thing up I do not want to spend the money on an aquarium, pumps, heater, sand, rock, and lights for a holding tank if I don't have to.  Sorry it probably sounds like I'm being a tight wad but that's a lot of cost.
<<Understood my friend, but we're not talking "plug and play" here.  The decision is yours, but I'm not going to tell you you can dump everything from one tank in to the other and everything will be fine.  I know of folks who have done it...but none without some loss.  It sounds (to me) like your best option is to ask your LFS to hold your livestock while you set up/establish your new system.  EricR>>
I do currently have a 10 gal quarantine tank.  Thank you very much.  I would really appreciate a response.
P.S.  I have been told I can do the whole thing in a day and everything should be ok, but I really trust you guys.  Thanks again, Ryan.
<<Rarely will rushing things be without consequence.  Regards, EricR>>

Moving    5/3/06
Hello,
<<Hi Alex.>>
I am going on a trip overseas soon for an extended period of time, and cannot find a person to look after my 29 gallon, salt water tank. I'm wondering what the procedure is to either sell my livestock to a fish store or are they willing to hold on to the fish for the period that I am gone.  Any information would be extremely helpful.
<<Many stores will offer credit for healthy fish.  Your best bet is to contact the manager at the store directly.>>
Thanks
Alex
<<Glad to help. Lisa.>>

Moving Up To a Bigger Reef Tank - 04/22/06
Cool, thanks....
<<welcome>>
Also, I am going from a 55 to a 125 (toadstool leathers, open brain, closed brain, mushrooms, star polyps, a few fish, about 125 pounds of live rock in the 55 gal).
<<neat>>
My question is (probably from impatience) can I transfer everything from 55 to 125 (3-4" sand bed, all water etc.) and then top off the 125 without cycling (seems like it would be comparable to doing a 70% water change) or will this cause super stress on everything and kill most of it off?
<<While using the existing rock/water/substrate (and associated biota) from the current will likely "shorten" the cycle period, just the act of transferring same will cause some "die-off"...especially within the sand bed.  Because of this I would expect to cycle the new system>>
Better to be patient and cycle new tank with a couple pieces of live rock?
<<No, you can go ahead as you plan.  Of course this means you will need someone/someplace to keep the current livestock>>
If I cycle it, then how slow should I move all the stock and rock from the 55 over?
<<Mmm...as stated, just moving the rock/substrate will cause spikes/cycling to occur.  I think your best strategy is to house the livestock elsewhere temporarily (perhaps at your LFS), move everything else to the new tank, and let the 125 completely cycle (may only take a week or two) before introducing the livestock>>
Also sump, I'm using a 30 gal underneath the 125, I was thinking if coming into the first chamber (housing an EV-180) keeping that at 9" then flowing into the main chamber with about 3" fine aragonite (seeded from my 55)
keeping water level 7 1/2-9" and then flowing into the return area.
<<Sounds fine, though I would go with a full 6" of sand here for increased nitrification>>
I'll probably be pumping 1500 GPH through the sump, I'm assuming this is way too much for a refugium, so, would I be better off having the middle chamber as the return and the end opposite the skimmer a refugium (water about 14" deep) and feed it either with a small pump from the skimmer chamber or a T in one of the return lines?
<<Hmm, you don't want to make this more complicated than necessary.  The flow through the refugium is not an issue...I think the flow through the sump as a whole is though.  I think you will find that trying to push 1500 gallons through your sump (assuming your overflows can accommodate this much volume) will be very noisy and difficult to manage.  My recommendation would be to strive for about "half" that rate (even 350-400 gph would be fine here), and utilize other methods (a closed-loop perhaps) to increase flow within the tank>>
Thanks again, Mike
<<Always welcome, EricR>>

Road Trip with the fishies !    3/24/06
Hi Bob, Anthony, et. al.,
<Fred>
Its been a while since I have consulted WetWeb Oracle, but its time to head to my roots and this is where it all started.  5 months straight of reading on WetWeb until my eyes were bleeding is where I learned basically everything that got me going in this hobby.  Thanks again and as always for your invaluable service.  On to the deal:
<Mmm, when are you joining us...?>
I have taken the plunge and decided a fish store is my destiny so I'm moving.  I am in North Palm Beach presently and I purchased a property in North-Central Arkansas, Mountain Home (where marine means -- something for your bass boat !).
<Heee! Congrats!>
The fish store building is a new 1200 sqft steel building on a slab.  It's built as a store front(gabled front entry, rear/side door, commercial fluorescents in nice ceiling tile).  It's small, but it's what I have, so...
<Is "right about the right size"... this was approximately the footprint of our retail fish-only places>
I have a basic plan in mind including a fish system of basically 24 linear feet, 3 high,
<A bit lower... 32" is about right...>
probably 3 8' long racks in a L config. This system is 1500 gal or so.  The non-fish will be much smaller as I expect to be selling little coral/expensive light set-ups, especially at first.  I was thinking maybe 500g BUT, (pay attn, I finally got to a question!) Would it be a BAD idea for me to include my non-fish water with my personal 180 reef and run as one system?  
<Mmm, do you mind selling your livestock? This is the biggest concern here, not disease, parasites...>
The reef will be on a storefront window right next to this system, so it would be real convenient, but what of the safety?  
<No worries... better to blend, dilute...>
On my fish set-up, economy-one large pump, redundancy-2 or more.  I'm thinking economy with a spare pump. Your thought on this and any tips or timeless fish store secrets you could pass along on keeping good water and a reasonably dry floor would be fantastic.
<A good beginning is what I have posted on the Aquatics Business subweb on WWM...>
I've become very capable along the way, but there are often very simple little things/ideas that I realize in some profound moment, that are probably old hat/rule of thumb stuff to you gents.
<A lifetime or two's worth>
OK, now the important stuff.  I have to move all of my critters 1200 miles. Some, but not much is fairly hilly and curvy.  I'm right at the edge of the Ozarks.  It should be warm enough by then (late April) where heating won't be so difficult.  I plan on taking them in my pick-up truck.  It has a camper shell so the whole operation will be protected.  What might be the best way to do this?  
<Actually... the best would be not to do it... To instead leave all behind, go build out the store, then send for all... to be air-shipped. If you had to haul, I'd "lightly bag" and oxygenate, Styro and cardboard box all, with heat packs if necessary, and drive like the wind...>
I am considering making an acrylic 'travel tank' with dividers to separate and to baffle.
<Too much work, damage... not necessary if you can make the drive in under two days>
Corals on eggcrate shelves across the top, fish below that in their assigned cells, and a sump area below that of <12" or less.  Some PCs on the top and I have wireless temp from PP along with several other monitors that could be inc.  But that seems like a big job all by itself and I have a huge one waiting in AR. SO, I saw some 1 gallon clear plastic food canisters, with large flat screw on lid, on EBay cheap.  Would fish do ok for up to 24 hours sloshing around in one of these, if I silicone/plumb in a very simple, low volume circ system?  
<No... time for you to become super-familiar with practices in the trade... Visit some of the better stores in your area, observe how their livestock is shipped to them... little water, lots of oxygen, double and more bagged and some types of specimens "hung" attached to material... This is what you want to do>
Also, is there anything (that's safe) like a mild sedative you can add to their water to cushion the blow?  (Hmm, I could crush up a valium for them!)  Just kidding, I think... you can't do that, right?
<I would not use these here>
Well, I know my letter is getting lengthy so I'll end with a quick list of fish: Cuban Hog, Coney, V Lion, Sailfin Tang, Orient Swtlips all about 3" green moray 12" O clown, Dotty, Clingfish, Wrasse, Diadema, Yoshi  all about 2", Purp Tang 6", Foxface 7".  My 2 big ones of course would be granted multiple cells if not housed together (they're best friends, never apart) add to that a multitude of small inverts and a couple dozen corals in various families, only a couple SPS frags.
P.S. On the road trip thing, even if you have a completely different idea, please enlighten me.  Every time I think I have it ALL FIGURED OUT, I learn something else that makes me see how much more there is to learn.  I'm very open to opinion from a respected source.
Thanks Again,
Be Chatting!
Fred
<Again, the best of luck, success in your endeavor. Bob Fenner>

Live rock transport    3/19/06
If I got live rock from someone with an established tank and transported it in buckets full of water for about 7 or 8hrs in the buckets, could I put the rock directly in my tank?  <Read FAQ's here Mike, should find what you are looking for.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrshippingfaqs.htm
Thanks for the help  <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>   
Mike

Novalek Breathable Bags  - 03/09/2006
Hello WWM crew,
    I have a question regarding the breathable bags  from Novalek.  I own an aquarium installation and maintenance business in  New Hampshire where we quarantine all of the livestock for our clients tanks for  30 days prior to delivering.
<A very good practice. Our service business used to do the same>
  The systems are small now to fill our needs,  but as we grow I would like to consider offering some QT livestock online.
<Mmm, am compelled (by myself) to mention that this is very unlikely to prove profitable... too much cost involved...>
  I read an article on these bags recently and it seems that if properly cleaned  out (not fed.) prior to shipping, that most fish could last a considerable  amount of time in these bags.  In order to function properly the bags must  not touch, and will work
better if not double bagged.  Would this be a good  tool for shipping fish?
<Not IMO/E... as much as I am a fan of Dr. Rofen's work, company, these bags are not appropriate technology for the vast majority of applications in the pet-fish interest... Other factors, mainly temperature fluctuation, greatly discount their utility. Still best to seal insulated boxes, utilize pure oxygen...>
My main concern is that if the bags work as well  as Novalek claims, and one could perhaps save on shipping by not using a next  day air service, how could the temp. be properly regulated in the shipping  box?
<Bingo...>
Also, can a breathable bag, or multiple bags for that matter,  continue to function in a sealed shipping box?
<Mmmm, don't see how...>
  Thank you in advance for  your advice, you're web site has been an extremely valuable resource.
Thank You,
Myk.
<Thank you for writing, sharing. Bob Fenner>

Marine Tank Upgrade   2/2/06
Hi ,
<Hi Nicole.>
I have a 2 part question.  
<Okay.>
I'm moving up from a 55 gal to a 120 gal.  
<Awesome.>
First part After I cure live rock in new tank, 90 pounds can I move all of my 55 gal into the new tank (rock, soft corals, and fish, refugium) at the same time?
<You could but as you allude to below, patience is the best way, maybe ˝ one week and half the next, giving time for your new nitrifying bacteria to adjust.>
I'm figuring no. o.k. second part In the new tank I plan on having 2  
Bannerfish Heniochus diphreutes 1 four lined wrasse. What fish from my 55 gal do you suggest I keep without over stocking? I have 4 Blue-green Chromis  1pink
skunk clown 1 ocellaris clown 1 mandarin goby this one I am  keeping) 1 skunk cleaner 5 peppermint shrimp.
<Remove one of the clowns from the list and you should be fine.>
I am  torn I have had my tank  for 5 years , but I fell in love with the Bannerfish and I Have no room for both  tanks. Thanks
so much Nicole
<Welcome, Adam J.>

Moving 20H tank 3 feet over? - 12/21/2005
Hi,
<Hi there Susanne!>
In a couple of weeks we'll be adding a 40G tank to our household.
<Always room for one more!>
To fit it into our rather small place, we'd have to move over our 20H setup with HOB refugium (which will stay up)
about 3 feet from its current position.
<WooHoo! Been there before.>
I have the feeling there is no easy way to just "slide it over" and I'll have to treat it like a move, taking out the water, rock and livestock (1 ocellaris clown, 1 watchman goby, 1 pistol shrimp).
Is this correct, or can I take out just some of the water and rock to lighten the load and try sliding the stand plus tank?
<This is what I've always done. I must say however, there is a risk of your tank cracking or splitting a seam. It must be moved (lifted/slid) evenly. Get some friends to help and drain at least 50%. One gal. of water weighs 8.34lbs. or something like that, so a half full tank+substrate and rock is going to likely be over 100lbs. You may want to drain 75%.>
The 20H has been up for about 3 years and has been doing very nicely, and I don't want to jeopardize things.
<Understood.>
I'd be grateful for your advice.
<Well, you've got it. The safest thing is of course "the break down", but you've got to take into account the distance here and possible detriment of fully disassembling the tank.>
Best regards,
Susanne                          
<Josh>

Re: Moving 20H tank 3 feet over? - 12/21/2005
Hi,
<Hello Susanne.>
Wednesday, December 21, 2005, 7:56:08 AM, crew@mail.wetwebmedia.com wrote:
<Well, you've got it. The safest thing is of course "the break down", but you've got to take into account the distance here and possible detriment of fully disassembling the tank.>
Best regards,
Susanne                          
<Josh>
Thanks for the speedy answer, Josh!
<Gladly!>
It's great to have a place to ask questions, and I've spent quite a few hours researching at wetwebmedia.com over the last few years.
<Glad you've found so much use for us fish geeks.>
Now if I could only find consensus on which brand return pump I should get for the 40G/sump!;)
<Better yet, how to avoid ridicule when your tanks are all you talk about!>
I'll let you know how things went after the "operation" is over!
<Do keep us posted. Try the Wet Web forum for pump input/reviews. May have some in the CA Magazine but I think it's on powerheads.>
Best regards,
Susanne                          
<Happy holidays, hope all "moves" smoothly. - Josh>

Shipping question 10/28/05
Hello,
<Hi there>
First of all, thank you for reading my question and giving me so many advices 
<much advice> 
in the past. I am opening a new business and I'm planning to import corals and fishes in small scale (10-15 box). The problem is that the supplier that I found (From Bali, Indonesia) never shipped this far before (To Toronto, Canada) and they asked me whether to use any special method to deal with the winter condition in Toronto (It should be between 3-6 Celsius when the shipment arrive).
<... need to pack light (less animals, more water), use heat packs...>
Could you please tell me how does it usually done when shipping livestock this far away (we're talking 36+ hours).
<Can be done>
I suggest them using a heat pack (Heat source 35+ or 60+, which one do you think is better and how many should be used in one normal sized Styrofoam box?),
<They should ask about... their competitors re what make/model of heat packs they have, are using... some are better than others... I would use at least two pieces per box, on top of newspaper, on top of the bags... all individual bags sealed in one box bag. They should "practice" with a given volume of water, time (36 hours) in a refrigerated setting to see how this works out>
but they told me it may overheat the box since the weather in Bali is relatively hot already. I already read the information about this heat pack and it mentions that the heat pack will heat up to 130 degrees! I'd like to know what will the temperature be inside the box if it is placed on the lid of the box and double wrapped with newspaper. I would really appreciate your help on how to ship livestock this far and dealing with different weather condition. Thank you very much for reading my email.
Thx
Jony
<Only way to tell is to experiment... try a given number of heat packs under similar timed conditions... Bob Fenner> 

Moving/Recommendations  10/5/05
Hello Guys,
    I'm moving from Ft. Lauderdale to the Ft. Worth/Dallas area. We have some great aquarium shops in this area which I am going to miss. Can you recommend an aquarium store in that area? I'm already a little stressed moving our aquatic buddies from Florida to Texas. I'm even taking 40 gallons of their aquarium water with me. Not to mention a big inverter to run a pump for the trip. If you can think of a more intelligent / common sense way to move my fish, I would greatly appreciate your input. I have no idea on what the hell I'm doing. I'm pathetically attached to my fish.  For the record I'm moving a 180 gallon A.G.A. FOWLR set up. Any advice on moving Live Rock would also be appreciated and re-setting up the tank. I'll be putting in fresh bio sand plus the sand I already have with me. Hopefully this will all work. I've had all my fish ranging from five to seven years. I don't want to loose them now. Including a Maculosus Angel (named: Mac). If I lose this guy (the fish) my girlfriend will kill me. It would break her heart. I catch the nut talking to Mac and the other fish all the time. I'm sure this is not normal behavior, especially our unusual attachment to our fish. But if you knew the hassle and aggravation we've gone through to keep them alive over the years you would understand. For example we and I include the fish, went through Katrina here in South Florida. We were without power for five and a half days. Battery operated pumps will only last so long. One broke, the other I decided to save in case my alternate plan failed. I ended up running a 100 foot extension cord from my truck to my second floor condo to run power using a power inverter. Then I had to start my engine every hour or so to keep the truck battery charged. I still had to go to work (twelve on twelve off shifts). The only fan we could run off of this overtaxed inverter was used on the tank. We kept it as cool as humanly possible considering there was no ice available for 75 mile radius. The outside temperatures reached 98 degrees (heat index was 103) in the apartment 96 degrees. We were able to keep the tank at an average of 82 degrees. Needless to say we didn't sleep much, were very hot and miserable. I've lived here on and off my entire life. I've had enough of hurricanes. My mother and sister just relocated to Dallas/Ft. Worth from New Orleans so you can say they've had enough too. Please let people know about power inverters it might help if they have to deal with a long term power outage or just want to run other equipment in a emergency. I keep mine in my truck. You never know.
I also have a fish question. Will my Maculosus Angel or Cirrhilabrus luteovittatus (named: Barney) kill a cleaner shrimp? Any shrimp?
Thank you for your advice and information over the years,
James Thomas
P.S. For the record I am not responsible for naming of these fish.
<James, don't believe the angel would kill a cleaner shrimp.  As to moving here is a like with loads of info/tips.  http://www.google.com/custom?q=moving&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com
Good luck in the move.  Hopefully you won't lose any fish.  James (Salty Dog)>

Livestock Transport  9/30/05
Hi there,
<Hi Ai Kun, Adam J. with you tonight.>
I will be moving to a new place which is 5 hours drive away soon.  I have a new tank setup and cycled, and will be transporting my fishes and corals over this weekend.  <Congratulations.>  I have asked my LFS to help with the packaging and dismantling of my existing tank.  My question is how long can my fish/corals stay in the packages safely? <Depends on how they are packaged, if it is done with bags and pure oxygen or if they are in an open container with a battery powered air pump it can be done safely within 24 hours.>  they can I have 2 maroon clowns, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow goby, 1 bi-color blenny and 1 orchid Dottyback.  Are there any precautions that I can take to ensure that all my livestock will arrive at their destination safely?
<Well there are a few that are important ones to me, lots of air and water to keep stress level low and keeping the temp stable whether it be with ice packs and fans in the heat or heat packs in the cold. Otherwise see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movingaq.htm and please read the linked FAQ’s as well.>
Thank you for your time.
<No trouble at all.>
Ai Kun

Post Move  10/6/05
Hi
<Hello.>
Thanks to your prompt response to my earlier email.
<No trouble.>
I am pleased to inform you that all fish and corals survived the move. <Awesome!> However, I am having problems with the maroon clown couple right now.  
<Uh-Oh.>
In their previous home, they had a BTA and three days before the move, they spawned.  Due to logistic issues, I was unable to transport the rock (it's huge) with their BTA and eggs.  It has been 5 days and they are refusing to eat. <They are likely stressed out.  5 days isn't long enough to start panicking yet but I would offer them a variety of things. Maybe try soaking some mysis shrimp in Zoe or Selcon. That usually works for me.>  They would occasionally swim near the edge of the tank as though they are trying to run away.  The female is also stirring sand around the tank and has dug a rather deep 'cave' in between two rocks.  <The "digging" is fairly normal of Maroons.>  Does these symptoms tell you anything?  What can I do to make them eat?  <See above.>  I don't want to lose any of them.
<Don't panic yet. As stressful as the move was for you, it is/was even more stressful for the fish.  Hunger strikes like this can last weeks at times, so don't panic yet, just keep offering food.>
Thank you.
Ai Kun
<Good luck and keep me posted, Adam Jackson.>

Upgrading tank 9/19/05
Hey guys, I am plotting a tank upgrade this week and I'm a bit nervous about it. My current tank is a 45gal and I purchased a 65gal from a friend. In my mind it seems rather easy, but as I read some of the articles I'm getting worried. I have a local "fish guy" who seems to always have good advice, and he seems to think what I'm doing isn't all that big of a deal...
<I agree.  Simply moving animals from one tank to another is usually not that hard.  Be sure to have plenty of extra salt water, lots of buckets and tubs and lots of towels!>
Any way I plan on draining all the water out and putting it into the new tank, then adding aprox 15 gal of new saltwater.  I have several larges rocks. As for the substrate, I had planned on using most of it.  There must be 2 inches of crushed coral.
<I am not getting a clear picture of your plan, but I would suggest the following:  Drain most of the water to buckets and/or tubs.  With most of the water removed, it will be a simple task to capture the animals and place them in the buckets/tubs.  Transfer the substrate and rock to the new tank and arrange as you like.  Return all of the water from the original tank to the new tank (placing a plastic bag over the substrate helps prevent stirring and clouding) along with the animals.  Us the extra salt water you mixed up the day before to top off the new tank.  Move the filters, turn everything on and you are ready to clean up!>
I'm using all the same filtration: 2 of the largest emperor filter with bio wheels. (I've done extremely well with them by the way). <Good to hear.  I am not partial to power filters in marine tanks, but "don't fix what ain't broke!  Do see here if you are curious:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i5/Filtration/Filtration.htm>
I'm kind of looking at this as a major water change. I  have 5 fish including: neon Dottyback, needle nose hawk, 2 clowns and a canary wrasse, 2 anemones, no live rock, 3 star fish, crabs and turbo snails. I don't see how this is much different than one of my 40% water changes I do every three months. <Agreed.>
I also thought I'd set up my 10gal to keep the fish in while I do this, or is a bucket suffice with air stones?? <Buckets should be fine.  If you can move quickly and efficiently, even airstones are probably unnecessary.>
I do realize that my ammonia will spike a bit but I'm sure it does when I clean my tank. I'm hoping this will only take a couple of hours. I was planning on removing most of my decorations out a little bit at a time during the week, then on Sunday going for it. I did buy a bag of live sand to add to what I have now.  Am I going at this totally wrong?? Nervous Nelly.....KJ  <I don't think you will have an ammonia spike at all unless your substrate is really filthy.  In this case, I would rinse it well with saltwater before adding it to the new tank.  Don't worry, it should go fine.  Best Regards.  AdamC.>

Transporting Seahorses (8/27/05)
Greetings,
<Greetings to you as well! Leslie here with you this morning>
I've had a 55 gallon aquarium set up for seahorses now for about 3 months. I have the parameters adjusted as seahorse.org suggests.  However, I've had trouble finding just the right specimens to start out with and have been very patient in my search.  Finally, I've found them, a trio of healthy, captive bred H. erectus.  The trouble is that store is 12 hours from my home.
<Yikes, 12 hours is quite a drive.>
I'm trying to decide on the best way (or whether to try) to transport the little guys.  I would start out with the largest bucket/bag I can fit in the Styrofoam shipping container.  The owner/operator of the store does not have oxygen and suggested that seahorses don't do well with oxygen anyway.
<I am not really sure what the he means by that. Seahorses are shipped with oxygen all the time.>
He suggested a battery powered air pump in conjunction with well monitored temperature in the car and frequent water temperature checks.
<That sounds like a fine plan. Even better would be if you could get hold of a 5g bucket. That would allow for decent water volume. I like the buckets marine salt is packaged in. You can cut a hole in the top leaving a rim around the circumference of the top which, will prevent water from splashing out. You can control the temp in your car with the heat or air conditioning so temp should not be too much of an issue. You could insulate the bucket by wrapping it in a blanket or 2. >
I'm concerned that this may cause pH issues if the seahorses produce too much ammonia on the trip (as your cite suggests).
< This is always a possibility when shipping, but many many fish and seahorses are shipped and do just fine.>
I am not really sure how you get around that I haven't been able to find any specific info on your site as to transporting seahorses.
<I really do not think they require anything special regarding shipping with the exception perhaps of a small piece of Caulerpa to hitch to.>
Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
<A 24 hour round trip seems like quite a bit of trouble and expense to go to, especially with the price of gas these days, If it were me, I would reconsider the source. IMO it would be much easier on you and the seahorses to have them shipped by an experienced retailer. Have you looked into seahorses from www.oceanrider.com? They have lovely healthy CB seahorses, which they have been shipping all over the continental US for 7+ years. I personally have received many shipments and have never had a problem, as have many of my friends.  They have several specials on a regular basis including first time buyer’s specials which include 1 or 2 pairs of erectus for a discounted price. I believe that shipping is also included. Another pro for ordering seahorses from an aquaculture facility such as OR is that you are getting seahorses that have come to you directly from a high health facility with no holding facilities in between. This is a big bonus in my opinion. These seahorses and fish are not exposed to any other fish CB or WC, in process of getting from the breeder to your tank. I honestly feel this is your best option.>
Also, if there are any special acclimation procedures you would suggest after the trip, please pass them on.  I planned on using a 2-3 hour drip acclimation into a dark tank.
<The dark tank is only necessary if the horses have been in darkness for an extended length of time. If your temp, pH, and salinity are close to those of the transport water dripping is not necessary. Seahorses are not as sensitive as some of the inverts. The only other special acclimation procedure I would advise is to give them a holdfast to hitch to in your acclimation container, if it will be for an extended period of time.>
Thank you for your help.
<You’re most welcome!! >
I've robbed myself of much sleep perusing through your wonderfully informative website.  
<Well, get some well deserved rest before you get your seahorses, as I can promise you, you will be glued to the tank once they arrive. >
Now, hopefully it’s time to research some pipefish tankmates.
<Pipefish make wonderful seahorse tankmates, however you must consider that these fish are not yet commercially available CB. WC pipefish typically do not do well in captivity. They carry with them the issues of disease and requiring live food that WC seahorses do. I do not recommend mixing CB seahorses with any WC fish. You risk the health of your CB seahorses by mixing them with WC fish of any type. There are several seahorse compatible tankmates that are being CB at this time and any one of them would be preferable over a WC tankmate. I would recommend you look into one of these options including Banggai Cardinalfish, Assessors, many of the Gobies,  Fridmani Pseudochromis or even Ocellaris Clownfish. For additional information please have a look at www.oceanrider.com and www.syngnathid.org. Also, be on the look out for a seahorse related article by Pete Giwojna in the Conscientious Aquarist, WWM’s online magazine.>
Cheers, Matt
<Best of luck to you Matt! Cheers, Leslie>

Oxygen for shipping 8/15/05
Howdy folks,
<Fred>
I've scoured the FAQs and the forum, and still come up empty-handed with an answer for my question. I've started shipping out a lot more fish and corals lately, and feel it's time to invest in an oxygen system to bag up most of these with. The problem is that every company I've found offers a rather wide variety of mixtures available, all varying in their oxygen purity.
<There are a few...>
Now, I would assume (but hate to assume) that since most livestock will ship just fine with good ol' air, that anything more "pure" in oxygen than that would be beneficial, at least to some degree.
<Yep>
But, I don't want to lose
anything due to not asking the question, so here it is:
What grade/purity of oxygen is accepted for use in the industry? Should it be the highest grade? Medium? Low? Any idea on a certain % of oxygen?
<The higher the better... and the cost difference nowadays isn't much... medical grade is about best>
I'd be surprised if most facilities/shippers used the purest form available, as it's also likely the most expensive (forgive me, it's Sunday and I haven't actually been quoted any prices yet, so there may be an insignificant difference price-wise in purity levels).
<Here in S. Cal... it's nominal...>
Any insights you can offer, as always, are appreciated.
Thanks!
Fred
<Price out what the welding outfits have... including leasing the bottle/s... look for handy options like long flexible hoses, single hand (pistol-type) actuators for helping you fill the bags... even (in the longest haul) combo oxygen and bag-clip machines. Bob Fenner>

Shipping fish to US <from Canada> 8/7/05
Hello :)  Has anyone had any experience with shipping live fish from Canada to the US?  If so, what is the procedure/requirements...Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks! l.
>>From the Canadian side it is very simple if the amount is under $2000 (if above you need to fill in the B13 export paperwork). From the US side it is a nightmare. The US side will have to get in touch with USFW and likely buy an import license. Then there is also an inspection fee and the fish have to enter at a designated port, of which there are few. There has to be a 48 hour notice when the shipment will arrive and you have to fill in the USFW form, invoice and AWB at that time. When the fish arrive they have to be inspected, and you also have to clear customs. Good Luck, Oliver

Moving to Boston 7/21/05
Hi everyone. I had a question regarding moving my fish tanks.
<What happened to it?>
I have read your site looking at the various questions people asked regarding moving fish tanks, and they have helped me in the past, but those moves were only short trips within the city. Now I am moving from Cincinnati, OH to Boston, MA. This trip is substantially longer, most maps say roughly 887 miles and/or around a 14 hour drive. I have two tanks that I will be moving. My first is a 72g bowfront, 100 lbs of live rock, live sand, a bird wrasse, a lemon peel angel, a white faced tang, and a humu humu trigger. The second is a 25g with a few crabs and about 35 lbs of live rock. I know that I can pack the live rock in a few boxes with trash bag inside and wet newspaper on that, and the live sand i was going to place in a 5g bucket from home depot, but what about my fish? Your site recommends that I get large fish bags, 2/3 with air and 1/3 with water, double bagged, with one fish per bag.
<Mmm, then you haven't read all... I would not move the fishes with all the rest... have someone, a store hold them and ship them to you later... after you've got the tanks all up and going>
I would place all fish in a box
just like when they are received through the mail. Would this method still apply for a long drive to Boston? I am worried about moving these four fish, the bird wrasse is about 7 or 8 inches, the trigger is around 2 or 3, and the other two are around 4 inches. Would it be better to try and find homes for these fish, rather than stress them on the drive? I plan on moving during the night to minimize traffic jams and construction delays, hoping to shave off some of the time. Any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
On a side note, the humu humu was the last fish added. I know triggers can get very aggressive, but I have read that this particular is of the less aggressive triggers. So far he has shown no bad traits. Do you think that I will eventually have to worry about him harming the other fish? Thank you again.
Sincerely,
Brian
<Too much going on to haul all with you... the LFS you trust most will know how to air-freight your livestock. Bon voyage. Bob Fenner>

Stocking Levels
Hi. I hope you can help me. I've been reading your FAQ's about stocking a small tank, and it seems I'm dreadfully overstocked, although I can't quite tell HOW dreadfully, and I hope you can help.
Up until last week, I had a 150-gallon tank. That tank met a slow, sad end (as did my carpet) when the seal started leaking. I have temporarily housed my fish in my quarantine tank (30g) and a spare 10g I had. The 30g tank is holding  most of my livestock (10 damsels, 6 turbo snails, a 3" conch, one 4"  choc chip star and the one emerald crab who survived the upheaval); the 10g  has my second 5" ccs and 5 hermit crabs. Both tanks have enough sand and  rock from the original tank that I haven't experienced any problems with ammonia  or nitrites and everyone has been doing well while I researched my tank replacement options.
To make a long story short, I'm looking at a minimum of 3 months before I can replace my tank and stand, which is too long for me to keep my fish in less-than-optimal surroundings. Any suggestions you have on which you would keep  in such a small tank would be more than welcome. I have resigned myself to the need to get rid of at least one of my stars, and possibly both, but I'm unsure  if there's a maximum damsel-per-gallon limit. If it helps any, the damsels are a  combination of 3-stripes and blue damsels, ranging in size from 1-2".
They have  not yet been territorial in their smaller home, but I'm worried that may become  a problem in the future, in addition to the obvious problem  of their bioload. <Rachel, you might want to look into a Rubbermaid water tub.  Farm implement stores handle these and are relatively cheap.  I think that would work out well if you don't want to give up any of your animals.  Other than that, you can roughly figure one cubic inch of fish per five gallons of water.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you,
Rachel

Shipping Livestock in the Summer
Hi all. I recently purchased a LFS in Orlando and have a customer that wants a large order shipped to him. I want to make sure that I package it properly to insure live delivery. I am using a large Styrofoam cooler, but am wondering what you suggest to keep things cool...I know that many people used ice packs, but how do you determine how many and
where to place them? Thanks for any help, suggestions. Marcye
<Ice-packs are still the best available, most appropriate technology here... along with expedient shipping, labeling ("livestock, keep out of the sun")... preparation of livestock (no feeding for a few days, depending on sizes, species, condition) and good/maximized water volumes. Bob Fenner>  <<Marina also suggests looking to floral supplies - they are using cooling packs designed to ship roses from South America, and they seem to remain cool for a very extended period of time.>>

Adding Tang, Tiera Batfish Owner
Thanks so much for the quick response Marina!
<<Most welcome, Elisabeth.>>
The Tiera Batfish arrived as a very small juvenile and we had lowered the salinity to between 1.015-1.020, as our "LFS" told us that the juvies tend towards brackish. 
<<Yes. Lots of sea creatures spend their collective youths in such waters.>>
We have started the process of slowly increasing the SG. It's been 5 months of "tinkering" with it and the other fish and inverts have tolerated well.
<<Taking your time like this is best for the invertebrates. The fishes, however (especially the bat), can tolerate relatively quick changes. Not necessarily advised, but possible.>>
We are in the process of having a 1000 gal. tank built into our family room and hope that the batfish doesn't outgrow it too quickly, he's such a hoot with personality to spare, he hand feeds shrimp and "follows" as you move around the room.
<<Yee haw haw! Now *that* sounds like fun. Giving care to the animal's final dimensions should lead to success. I bet your general contractor loves you.>>
I love the twin spot hog, it's one of my favorites, he's been going strong for 2 years and seems to tolerate change well. 
<<Incredibly hardy fishes as a genus, as well as really *quite* attractive, and I think this species is the most attractive of the group.>>
I'm going to try a Naso the same size as the blue angel as you suggested, and hope that aggression doesn't become a big problem. 
<<Me, too. I suggest doing this when you have two-three days off in a row, and have NETS READY. Tangs are incredibly quick with their spines (searching for the name, no success! Bob?)<<Of all things: "tangs"... or spines is fine. RMF>>, and can slice up a fish faster than Martin Yan. Large angels are no slouches, either, so just be ready.>>
I'm planning on moving the batfish and the angel to the new set up when it's ready (it should be ready for water and live rock in the next two weeks and then we'll start to cycle and make sure it's well established before moving them over.)
<<WOW! Pictures would be fun (hint hint).>>
Thanks again for the advice!
Elizabeth
<<You're most welcome, as ever, glad to have helped. I do look forward to hearing how the move, etc. go(es). Marina>> 

Royal Gramma made a run for it!  Please Don't Ship us in Ziplocs...
Hello Crew, 
<Hello Jim>
I received a beautiful Royal Gramma from a fellow aquarist yesterday (along with some other fish). The fish were bagged in large Ziploc bags. While driving them home, I had to stop quickly at a light (I was driving like an old lady!!!), and you guessed it, the Gramma's bag opened. About 90% of the water ended up all over my floor. So, trying not to panic, I found the bag with the most water in it and decided to do an emergency transfer. I opened up the bag, but the Gramma was quite determined to stay inside. So I reached in and got him. (wait...it gets better)
As I'm about to put the Gramma into the second bag, he bites me! In my astonishment, I drop him on my passenger side seat. Anyway, I pick him up again and get him in the bag. He looks quite freaked out, but that's about it. Luckily the rest of the ride home was uneventful.
Once I get home, he doesn't look good...just laying on the bottom of the bag, so I decide to risk it and take him out before the full acclimation is complete (although he was probably at 50/50 tank water/bag water at that point, and the temps were the same). I take a pitcher filled with tank water and drop him in. He continues to lay almost motionless on the bottom, although he'll swim around if the water is agitated. So, I decide that I'm too concerned about his state to add him to the QT with the rest of the fish, so I add him to my Rubbermaid tub that's been mixing up a new batch of water. That's his new QT for now. 
He survived the night, and he will swim around occasionally, but for the most part, he just lays on his side.  I read on your Gramma pages that they tend to lay/swim at odd angles, but he seems very lethargic. There's not really much I can do now besides monitor him and hope for the best, but do you have any suggestions or tips to help me help him? 
<I think you said it, Jim. Monitor him. You didn't mention if he was taking food. That would be a good sign. James (Salty Dog)>
As always, many thanks! ~Jim 
<You're welcome>

Transporting Large Corals 1/16/04
I have a very thinly branched Acropora coral, which I'm happy to say is growing very quickly.  I have fragmented the coral several times.  Some of the fragments themselves have grown quickly as well, one of which is now 8" across.  I'm going to give the corals to my LFS (about 30 minutes away), but I can't figure out how to transport them without breaking them.  
<use a large cooler (Styro if possible) for each coral (never mix species in transit) and line it multiple times with a full box plastic liner (bags). Fill the bag with sliced or shredded plastic before adding enough salt water to cover the coral. The specimen set in place in this bed of shredded plastic is fairly well cushioned. Some people instead wrap the coral in plastic sheeting before sinking it... but this often traps air bubbles which over all are a problem or at least annoying)>
The smaller fragments are easier because I can float them upside-down in a bag.  
<correct>
Do you have any suggestions on how I might be able to transport the larger ones?  I'm afraid that the weight of the larger ones, including the rocks that they are attached to, will be too heavy to float with Styrofoam.  Any suggestions you might have for me would be great.  Thanks!
<best of luck! Anthony>

Netting fish with spines
Hello-
<Hi there>
I've been an avid reader of all the info on WWM for about 8 months now.  It's been a great help while I try to get my 75 gallon bow front up and running.  My question is about fish with spines or even venomous spines (specifically tangs and Rabbitfish).  I've seen it mentioned that these fish need to be netted with caution.  Is there a specific net you recommend?  A specific technique?
<A couple things... do use two nets (much better than chasing fishes around with just one), and thick rubber gloves to cradle the caught specimens if they have such spines (many fishes and quite a few non-fishes do)>
Thanks for your help and keep up all the great work on WWM, it's such a great resource for all of us just starting out!
Danielle
<A pleasure to serve, share. Bob Fenner>

Delayed shipping and inverts
Hi,
<< Hi there. >>
On Tuesday, I ordered 20 turbo snails, 30 blue-legged hermits, 12 Nassarius and six Bumblebee snails from Live Aquaria - the company correctly shipped everything Tuesday night but FedEx still hasn't delivered the package (they held the package in a facility for an extra day despite the words RUSH/LIVE ANIMALS that appear on the box.  I'm told tomorrow afternoon, which will have everything in their bags for roughly 48 hours. << Sounds fine. >>  Live Aquaria agreed to replace everything even though it's the shipper's fault.  Still a bummer though...  Anyway, can I expect heavy loss of life because of this? << I think it will all be fine.  By the way, I'm impressed with Live Aquaria's willingness to replace the animals.  Nice to hear, but I don't think you'll have any losses. >>
<<  Blundell  >>

New 55 for Christmas, Moving livestock from an existing tank to a new tank
Merry Christmas guys--<HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!>
I Received a new 55 for Christmas. It will replace my old 55. I have been researching the best way to transfer the inhabitants of my FOWLR tank. I will save as much water as I can. My areas of concern are switching the substrate, adding a 15 Gal fuge, and my snails. Right now I have about 1" of larger size crushed coral and am planning on switching to 1'' of .5-1mm aragonite. I plan to seed the new sand with my old crushed coral. How much should I use? <If you keep your old filter and run that for a couple weeks then you can change all the gravel.> Can I layer the larger substrate under the sand or just sprinkle it throughout the tank? <Both methods would work but I would use the sprinkling method.>  I also have around 50 lbs of LR. Will there be any cycling after the move? <A small cycle but nothing big.>In the fuge I am planning to use a 4-5'' DSB. I am planning on using the small sand but also seeding this with existing CC. Because of the size (or lack there of under my stand) I am pulling the main tank forward and placing the fuge behind the tank on a stand so the return will overflow back into the main tank by gravity through a 1'' bulkhead drilled into the fuge. Almost like the hang on fuges you can buy. I plan on using a powerhead to feed the fuge. Right now I have an extra Penguin 145GPH and a Hagen 400GPH available. One seems a little small and the other a little large. I am thinking the Penguin will give me close to 10x turnover but I might want a little more. Do you think either of these powerheads will work well or would you recommend something else?<You should be O.K.> I think there will be about 6'' of head. My goal in this fuge is to grow pods for the tank as well as macro's Chaeto or Gracilaria for the Tang and hopefully a little benefit of the DSB. If this setup works well I would like to add a larger sump behind the tank as well.
I have 4 large Turbos that have been in the tank for well over a year and 2 Nassarius (Spelling). After rereading Bob and Anthony's book they recommend 1 turbo for every 25 Gal and I have 4 in 55. Will they find enough to eat on the new tank with a new Sandbed?<Yes, you should be fine.> They definitely prefer glass to LR. I have not scraped the glass in my isolation tank for a while just in case I need to keep the turbo's in there for a while. No chemicals used in this tank except Melafix.
Also I have a False Perc that has been in the tank for the whole 3 years it has been running. Could I add another to the tank at the same time I transfer everything else?<If you add them at the same time you should be fine.> Or could I add one after the quarantine time?<That won't work.  The percula will have already set up territory and there might be fighting.> Some of the reef forums I have used mentioned that it might be easier to add another Royal Gramma.<In my experience one per tank only.  Otherwise, they will fight.> I would like to have a pair of one or the other. The Gramma has been in the tank for a little over a year.<You would be better with the perculas.> He has exploded in size and is close to 3'' already and very robust. The perc is smaller but still larger than what I have seen in the LFS. Would I need to get the new fish larger than the existing one?<If you want to go with the grammas that would give the fish the best chance.>I have received various opinions about this so I thought I would ask the experts. I would have to put off switching tanks for about a month so I could quarantine the new fish if they needed to be added at the same time.
Thank you again and Feliz Navidad
Pat
<Pat, the best is to go with a pair of perculas.  Your filtration sounds sufficient and you are on the right path.  Happy holidays and good luck. mikeb>

Moving livestock from an existing tank to a new tank
Merry Christmas guys--
<< Same to you. >>
I Received a new 55 for Christmas. It will replace my old 55. I have been researching the best way to transfer the inhabitants of my FOWLR tank. I will save as much water as I can. << Typically I think this is a good idea, but it is also a good time to do a big water change. >> My areas of concern are switching the substrate, adding a 15 Gal fuge, and my snails. Right now I have about 1'' of larger size crushed coral and am planning on switching to 1'' of .5-1mm aragonite. I plan to seed the new sand with my old crushed coral. How much should I use?<< Use all of your old sand. >> Can I layer the larger substrate under the sand or just sprinkle it throughout the tank?<< I'd spread it around some. >> I also have around 50 lbs of LR. Will there be any cycling after the move? << Definitely.  But keeping the rock under water helps a lot. >>
In the fuge I am planning to use a 4-5'' DSB. I am planning on using the small sand but also seeding this with existing CC. Because of the size (or lack there of under my stand) I am pulling the main tank forward and placing the fuge behind the tank on a stand so the return will overflow back into the main tank by gravity through a 1'' bulkhead drilled into the fuge. Almost like the hang on fuges you can buy. << This is a great way to go.  It doesn't help with other sump ideas like auto water top off, but it is great for refugia reasons. >> I plan on using a powerhead to feed the fuge. Right now I have an extra Penguin 145GPH and a Hagen 400GPH available. One seems a little small and the other a little large. I am thinking the Penguin will give me close to 10x turnover but I might want a little more. Do you think either of these powerheads will work well or would you recommend something else? << I'd go with the larger powerhead.  You can always T it off if it is too powerful. >> I think there will be about 6'' of head. My goal in this fuge is to grow pods for the tank as well as macro's Chaeto or Gracilaria for the Tang and hopefully a little benefit of the DSB. If this setup works well I would like to add a larger sump behind the tank as well.
I have 4 large Turbos that have been in the tank for well over a year and 2 Nassarius (Spelling). After rereading Bob and Anthony's book they recommend 1 turbo for every 25 Gal and I have 4 in 55. Will they find enough to eat on the new tank with a new Sandbed? << I think so.  Especially with the move where you will have die off. >> They definitely prefer glass to LR. I have not scraped the glass in my isolation tank for a while just in case I need to keep the turbo's in there for a while. No chemicals used in this tank except Melafix. << I probably wouldn't use that either. >>
Also I have a False Perc that has been in the tank for the whole 3 years it has been running. Could I add another to the tank at the same time I transfer everything else? Or could I add one after the quarantine time? << I would not add any fish to this new tank for several weeks. >> Some of the reef forums I have used mentioned that it might be easier to add another Royal Gramma. << Gramma's are tough fish to keep for many people. >> I would like to have a pair of one or the other. The Gramma has been in the tank for a little over a year. He has exploded in size and is close to 3'' already and very robust. The perc is smaller but still larger than what I have seen in the LFS. Would I need to get the new fish larger than the existing one? << No worries.  In a tank that size you should be able to add several Percs and not have a problem. >> I have received various opinions about this so I thought I would ask the experts. I would have to put off switching tanks for about a month so I could quarantine the new fish if they needed to be added at the same time.
Thank you again and Feliz Navidad << Good luck. >>
Pat
<<  Blundell  >>

Transporting fish
Mr. Fenner,
      First, I would like to thank you for writing such a wonderful and useful book.  My copy has never actually made it to my bookshelf.  It is an incredible reference.  I do have a question to which I don't believe that I have found an acceptable answer to.  I will be driving to Utah for Christmas to visit my wife's family and intend to buy several fish from a particularly good retailer there.  I am unsure of the best way to transport them for the 15 hour drive home.  Would it be best to leave them in bags and place the bags in a cooler for insulation purposes or would it be better to take a 5 gallon bucket with sand and water from their future home and a bubble box and airstone?
Is there some other more preferable way?  
<Yes... the former, in double bags, oxygenated, in a sealed cooler to keep warm, dark. Should do just fine... livestock are routinely shipped for more than 24 hours in this fashion. A good idea to pick out your choices and instruct the retailer not to feed them for the few days ahead of your pick-up, transport>
I appreciate any suggestions or guidance that you might have.
Mahalos,
Jason Geyer
<Thank you for writing and your kind, encouraging words. Bob Fenner>

Moving, completely cleaning out a fish tank
I want to do a 100% water change. I have seen these little Aquarium Tote things that little kids use. Can I put my Fish in some of those while I am cleaning my tank? For how long can I keep them in there?
Jahner
<Can use... as these are chemically inert... How long? Depends on how much life... maybe add a mechanical aerator (airstone, pump...) and DO keep the top screened over to prevent your livestock exiting stage up! Bob Fenner>

Transporting fishes trough commercial flights
Hi crew, I have been reading many of your information but I would like to ask you now, I live in Venezuela but I will travel for vacation to USA soon and would like to by few fishes (no more than 4) hard to find here, my question is if you know how hard would be to me travel with commercial flight caring my fishes.
Thanks for your response
Angel
<Ask that they be double or triple bagged. Double-banded. Oxygenated (not ambient air filled)... and carry them on (don't check them in your luggage)... and memorize this line: "For personal consumption"... that is, not for sale. Bob Fenner>

Moving live rock as you move tanks
I was looking through some of my old email, and came across this conversation we had.....I had high ammonia from taking live rock out of the tank for a short period of time, from the die off.....well, now my tank has
transformed into a reef tank with about 130 pounds of live rock and a forty gallon sump with a refugium inside....I am about to move 2 hours from my current location....should I expect the same result? << Well it is up to you. If you take a small bucket, place it in your aquarium, move rock into it, pull out that bucket, place it in a large Rubbermaid container, slide the rock out, and keep repeating this.... no problems. Does that make sense? You just go slow and make sure the rock never comes out of water. Then you do the same process to put the rock back in.  Now you will of course have some die off, and you will have filtration problems as you disturb your sand bed, but the die off is minimized by keeping the rocks completely submerged.
Blundell >>